Vox Populi – 3-29-13

AdLib : Night Sally, looking forward to this Sunday’s funnies! Night all!

AdLib : Take care Murph, have a great Easter weekend!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…hope your vision for the USPS future is the one that plays out.

MurphTheSurf3 : Well I am off to bed. Take care Ad and Sally.

AdLib : Murph – Yep, that seems pretty clear but with Obama in the WH and the potential of Hillary there for the next two terms, the USPS may complete this siphoning off of their revenue without any budgets being passed that slash their budget further.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I think the purpose of the pension and medical funding requirements is to force the USPS out of business. And the GOP is quite prepared to put forth funding bills sufficient to expand Fed Ex and UPS services

AdLib : Maybe we should just let Goldman Sachs handle everything…but they might bundle our mail into derivatives…

AdLib : Murph – But the private carriers depend on the USPS to be able to make the profit they do, don’t they? And the USPS won’t be put out of business by this, they can’t be. So…what happens when the pensions are finally financed?

MurphTheSurf3 : Oh Ad Lib….you know the answers to those questions…this is the GOP we are talking about. Kill the USPS and then subsidize the private carriers….easy .

AdLib : Murph – But where would the money come from to pay FedEx or whomever? They would be paid on top of the USPS budget? And would they be forced to bank 10 years of employee pensions too?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I have asked that question of our Representative who claims that “there will be no service interruption.” I laughed at him, but he is used to that from me. He knows that I know differently. The government will award a contract to UPS or Fed Ex…Sounds like privatizing SS.

SallyT : Right.

AdLib : Sally – And on weeks with a Monday holiday, you wouldn’t get mail for 3 days.

AdLib : Murph – If your post office closed, how would you get your mail?

SallyT : Anyway, they should say in the ad that it will be a three day weekend here on out.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb…from what I hear the ads are round one and will be stepped up

AdLib : And how would that work anyway, how would people in a smaller town with no post office, get their mail?

SallyT : I agree, AdLib. Damn D

AdLib : Sally – I’ve seen the ads but I find them too tame. People need to know what life will be like if their post office closes and mail delivery is reduced.

SallyT : I o know why but my is sticking. Okay, my D is sticking!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I agree….a national campaign.

SallyT : Good for the Union.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally, the tv ads are from the union….

AdLib : Murph – Sounds like it did make an impact! This should be a local and national campaign. People need to think about how they will get their medicine, SS checks, pay their bills, etc. if their local post office closes up and delivery is reduced again and again. This is big time disaster for many people.

SallyT : But, they do run ads on TV now.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- I said the same thing to my postmaster friend about the first amendment…she laughed and called me naive.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….what she says to me is she is counting on people like me to get the word out. I made quite a stink at the county seat a few months ago when I asked a clerk (in a loud voice) if the list of possible closures really included that post office? I then held up the list. The clerk made an excuse for not answering, but lots of people in line asked me about it. I showed them the list and they were stunned. Next week the local paper carried a front page story- I have no idea if this was connected to my “demonstration ” but it could not have hurt.

AdLib : Sally – There are only limits on Amendments that don’t refer to guns.

SallyT : I would say that is covered under the 1st Admend

AdLib : Murph – I appreciate the position she’s in but there does need to be a way to get the truth out to the people before it’s too late.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- yep….they are forbidden to address the issue in any way that might be considered a criticism of either party or of any legislation.

SallyT : They can’t say anything to protect their jobs?

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- I know the postmaster for my area and she says that the impact on our residents will be horrifying but she is forbidden from “politicizing” the issue by naming the GOP as the culprits which they are.

AdLib : I would hate to see Saturday deliveries end, it’s always a nice thing to be able to get mail to or from someone on Saturday.

MurphTheSurf3 : State Defense Forces can be a ready reserve or an active corp. Often it is both.

SallyT : Murph, I know they do. When I was in business, we got many packages turned over that way.

KillgoreTrout : Sally, Truth, Lies and Uncertainty.

AdLib : Murph – So, they are basically a state version of the National Guard. Is it like the NG, just part timers or people on reserve who can be called to duty?

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- want to guess how often UPS and Fed Ex packages come via the USPS-+-? Where there is not enough traffic for a route – they use the mails.

KillgoreTrout : Very cool Ad! See ya tomorrow.

SallyT : What’s the theme?

SallyT : I know, Murph, and that is serious, isn’t it.

AdLib : KT – Thanks, just got the email bump that it’s ready to be published. Great choice of theme! I’ve already got some ideas for songs!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- in my bit of rural landscape in Mo….the Post Office is a life line for our poor and elderly resident who count on the mails to deliver medicine.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad, just came back to let you know I finished the Weekend Music Thread. Hope you like it.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib..State Guards (sometimes called the State Military Reserve, the Foot Guard, the Militia Reserves) literally can be called on to protect the state from external threat, to assist in restring order/keeping order, to aid in a time of state emergency….Her e is a real oddity…If there are military academies in your state – the staff very often hold ranks in the State Defense Forces.

AdLib : Sally – Sometimes though it’s the letter K and they use it three times.

SallyT : Some know how to sign there name, AdLib, its X

AdLib : Sally – The Repubs would be just fine bout that, they don’t know how to write anyway.

SallyT : Lets see how they like sending a birthday card at the price of a FedEX.

AdLib : What is the jurisdiction of the State Guard, when would they be called upon?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….22 states have a State Guard (quite often organized in concert with the state police)…..

AdLib : Sally – As they would whine, “But it’s socialism keeping private industry from jacking up the price and pocketing all that money! That’s not what the Founders would have wanted!”

AdLib : Murph – State Defense Forces? Not familiar with them, what are they?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Sally….I have learned a lot about the organized militia, the unorganized militia, and citizen militia. There is a lot more to it than I knew. Do you know about State Defense Forces that are not the National Guard?

SallyT : They really pick and choose on that Constitution don’t they. How about the part in there that we should have USMail?

AdLib : Murph – That’s very cool!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…the work is not ready for prime time but as a studio production it is a work in progress. The playwright, the composer and the music director engaged the audience in a discussion about their reactions to it. Quite interesting.

AdLib : Murph – A smart and sensible gun owner knows that registration is not prohibition and they aren’t paranoid that our government is suddenly going to become modeled after a bad science fiction movie. The NRA knows what they fear monger about is BS but it works so they just keep going over the top and pols keep showing how spineless they are. If 91% of Americans want universal background checks, that means a big majority of gun owners agree.

AdLib : Sally – I guess, since switchblades aren’t covered by the 2nd Amendment…how ridiculous is that. The Founders go out of their way to state that owning a gun is limited by being part of a well regulated militia…and all these RW nuts just ignore all but “The Right to Bear Arms”!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…in my experience with this….the more reasonable the gun owner the more willing they are to consider licensing and vice versa.

SallyT : Have you ever read about when and why they outlawed switchblades? Pretty amazing that they could do that.

AdLib : Murph – So you give the production a thumbs up?

AdLib : Murph – Stop being so clever and sensible, you’ll just upset the NRA. Isn’t it amazing that there isn’t any argument that people should pass a test to be able to use a car because it could hurt or kill a few people and yet when it comes to guns, there are those who think it should be just fine to have people who couldn’t pass a test, own as many gns as they wanted. How does one make sense and the other doesn’t?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….in the style of Les Miserables….

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- There is a group of gun owners (of which I am one) who have put together a comprehensive licensing proposal: application, background check, paper test (focusing on liability law, safety), and a field test (safety, demonstrated competency). And the licensing stays in state records. Not gun registration. User registration. Boy does this tick off the NRA types.

AdLib : Murph – What was the style of the music? Choral? Classical? Or did they go for a modern twist?

MurphTheSurf3 : The songs 1) 100 Aimless Years, 2) The Reading of the Articles of Condemnation, 3) Bells in Cathedral Towers, 4) The Council of Voices, 5) Wine, women and Plunder, 6) Hearing the Song of Franc, 7) Elusive Crown, 8) Prisoners of Our Time, 9)The Singing of the Noble Blood, 10)Harlot ofArmagnac, 11)Council of War, 12) Battle of Orleans, 13) Holy Betrayal, 14)Rejoice, 15) Burning Tapestry

AdLib : But a gun that can fire a bullet into your head and make it explode? We shouldn’t ever ask people to register those, only things that might be dangerous.

AdLib : Sally – You can’t get Sudafed without being registered at the pharmacy.

AdLib : Er…I Heard it Through The Grapevine…

AdLib : What were the songs in the musical, “I Don’t Want to Set the World On Fire” and “I Heard It From the Grapevine”?

AdLib : Murph – Very interesting, I might have had the same feeling as you at first, a nice surprise that it turned out to have a bit more to connect with than first anticipated.

SallyT : They lock up spray paint and glass cutters. You have to fill out paperwork to buy those.

AdLib : Sally – You have to register your pets! Your children are registered! Just about everything is registered…but the most dangerous thing you can possess!

SallyT : True. You can buy a gun easier than you can buy spray paint now a days.

MurphTheSurf3 : Well- I will throw this in….just came from the “World” premier of a “new” musical…Joan of Arc….not kidding. I was dragged there screaming. But it was unusual look at nationalism, elitism, religious zealotry, and the power of mass psychology

AdLib : If Newtown and the shooting of kindergarteners can’t tip the scale, what can? How much worse of a massacre needs to take place before politicians are pressured enough by voters to pass sensible laws to help prevent such tragedies?

SallyT : I don’t know why they can’t make you register your guns and license them. You have to your car.

SallyT : Sue, you have a great holiday however you do it!

AdLib : Thanks Sue, lots of egg salad here on Sunday afternoon! Everyone’s invited!

MurphTheSurf3 : Bye- ships passing in the night.

AdLib : Sally – In a free society, the best you can do sometimes is only limit the amount of danger. In a police state where guns are forbidden, you could have safety but at such a terrible price. So, it’s a trade off. What doesn’t work is having these NRA loons insist that we should never make things safer because no matter what you do, it’s a slippery slope to confiscating everyone’s guns. They are so transparent, whipping up paranoia amongst the most paranoid in our society. And all for profit for their masters, the gun manufacturers. It’s really obscene.

SueInCa : lol Sally you can always make me laugh

SueInCa : Well don’t take this wrong Murph but I am really signing off now. You all have a great weekend and Adlib you have fun watching your daughter finding eggs. I am just a kill joy lol. We used to celebrate some when the kids were small but mostly the egg hunt, we were never big on church services.

SallyT : I celebrate the birth of spring, the earth refreshing, and the new baby lambs, and chicks, and calves, and goats, and all the other shit on the farm that makes shit!

SueInCa : oops me too sally

SueInCa : me sally

SallyT : Sue, I am more pagan on Easter.

AdLib : Hey Murph!

SueInCa : I know Sally, I am just saying what I think could happen and limiting magazines is another good idea. Yes MTS we are here

SallyT : AdLib, I am with you on that! Magazine limits and assault weapon ban.

AdLib : Sue – I like Easter. I liked hunting for eggs when I was little and as a parent, I like watching my daughter excitedly hunt around for the coveted eggs! And Easter vacation is another good reason.

SallyT : Sue, I agree with everything you and AdLib have said. I am just focusing on people like that kid in Newtown or Colorado. Those type I think we will still have a problem with. But, maybe fewer other types.

MurphTheSurf3 : Hi….is anyone here?

SueInCa : Celebrating a death and a resurrection to me is just odd.

AdLib : Sally – WHat would help though would be the assault weapon ban and the magazine limit. We may not be able to stop people who have no prior history of criminality from shooting others but we could at least try to limit the amount of harm they can cause.

SueInCa : Ok I am going to ask the question, does anyone really like Easter? I don’t and never have.

SallyT : Good night, KT! Hope you have a great holiday however you celebrate it.

SueInCa : Sally Visa and Mastercard will not do any marketing programs with merchants who sell guns. That is good enough for me. They feel it will damage their reputation. I wish more people had that much courage

AdLib : Night Killgore, have a great Easter weekend!

AdLib : KT – Whenever there is a scientific discovery or something found in space, I feel like a kid pressing his nose to the store window, “Really? We found something new?” I love that stuff.

SueInCa : Because they know no background checks at gun shows. gang members case those shows for non-background dealers. Of course they could get them on the street but background checks are going to stop a lot dead in their tracks.

AdLib : Sally – You’re right, there are some types of murderers that such laws just won’t stop. The spouses murdering out of madness or jealousy, the quiet guy who snaps, etc. At the same time, current background checks that dealers do have prevented many bad guys from getting guns and since around half of guns are bought privately and at gun shows, many other dangerous people will have guns kept out of their hands. As the saying goes, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

SallyT : That is what I am getting at, Sue, the undiagnosed mad man. Will a background check find him?

SueInCa : Night KT I am going to go in a few too, I want to veg and watch a movie…I have been going all week and I don’t work

SueInCa : Weren;t most of the dems from red districts. Feinstein has seen death up close, she knows how dangerous guns are in the hands of an undiagnosed mad man

SallyT : I can see that, Sue, but gang members get guns off the street, too. Why does anyone need to buy in bulk? That should stop.

KillgoreTrout : Well Planeteers, time for me to slip away for now. Have a wonderful Easter and weekend. Later gators!

SueInCa : Adlib they learn from the kids at school, just have a one off convo with her maybe talk about going steady and she will spill the word

AdLib : KT – Agreed, the NRA needs to be shown up as the paper tiger it really is, it is upsetting that so many Dems can be scared into voting to endanger their voters by these bullies.

KillgoreTrout : Great point Ad. The world is full of wonder. The trick is being willing to look for it. It’s very wise to constantly be in a state of becoming. Becoming always brings wonder, if we let ourselves be open to it. Why let the kids have all the fun?;)

SueInCa : But Sally at gun shows is where the gang members go for their guns, it will stop some stuff on the street and buying in bulk won’t be feasible at a gun show anymore either

SallyT : Would you find them in a background check???? Okay, the guy that shot in AZ, yes, but others?

AdLib : Sue – My daughter is 9 years old…how long do you think I’ve got?

SallyT : Its not that I am against background checks but I don’t think they will really stop much. When you hear of these terrible shootings it is always the quite guy that no one thought much about or they thought was nice person. Then they flip out and bang!

AdLib : Sally, what issue do you have with background checks?

SueInCa : Do you care to expound on that Sal?

AdLib : Sue – I think the main issue will be forcing the government to destroy the checks or allowing them to keep them. The paranoid Repubs don’t want law enforcement to have these critical tools…because of course one day they will use those lists to “take away our guns”. Meanwhile, not stopping terrorists and madmen from getting and using guns is just fine with them.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I’m really disappointed with the dems for their spinelessness when it comes to standing up to the NRA.

AdLib : KT – Maybe that’s why so many grown ups are fascinated by science and the universe, we’re looking for our magical Easter eggs there?

SueInCa : Adlib you would be surprised what he has told me about sex lol. He has a cousin who is 17

SallyT : I have a little problem with background checks.

SueInCa : Adlib I think republicans are going to have a hard time going against background checks, they are the ones crying mental health but it is so easy to point out doctor patient privilege so their argument drowns before it takes hold

AdLib : Sue – Your grandson is quite a character! Of course, explaining the pagan reasons for celebrating fertility might not be appropriate at this age.

KillgoreTrout : Ah Ad, wouldn’t it be great to have that sort of wonderment at our age?

SallyT : I will buy one, when you are done.

SueInCa : okie doke sally. I am learning how to weave bracelets, I will show you one when done.

SallyT : It is very simple, Sue. You get one and I will walk you through it.

SueInCa : LOL she is the perfect angel because she can be so sincere and tears and all…Ant won’t watch her anymore. Background checks are going to become law at gun shows, I am sure of it.

SallyT : That Monica girl looks scary to me!

KillgoreTrout : Must have been pretty good weed Sally. That normally isn’t a light hearted movie!

AdLib : So, as time keeps slipping farther away from the Newtown massacre, do you think that at least Universal Background Checks will become law or will this turn out to have been another futile effort?

SueInCa : Will the package tell me how to hook it up?

SallyT : I have one of those, too, KT, and it works wonderful. I like to play my games on the big screen, too.

SueInCa : Hmm I wil have to try that KT, that would be the ultimate for me. We don’t smoke that much KT maybe just once in a while.

KillgoreTrout : Vaporizing is the way to go. No smoke, just vapor. Nothing actually burns. Much easier on the lungs.

SallyT : KT, there is some really potent stuff up here! Mr T played in a band for many years and of course, you know, a little this, a little that….anyway, he tried some back when and he said he was strong stuff!

SueInCa : My grandson asked me last week what the easter bunny had to do with finding eggs? He has never liked finding eggs and does not like chocolate…..he also told me he hates touched by an angel because that monica girl tries to make you cry

KillgoreTrout : Sue, I got a VGA cable and connected my laptop to my flat screen. It works great!

KillgoreTrout : Sue, moderation is the key to any substance use, for sure. I haven’t smoked in about 5 or 6 years now. I used to grow indoors and never ran out. Very potent stuff too. After several years of serious toking, I decided it was time to clear the cobwebs for a while. I may start up again soon. After my trip to Portland.

AdLib : Had to put the little one to bed…Easter coming up and she can hardly wait to find eggs!

SueInCa : Oh there you are, I thought you left us. I know I am a good customer lol

AdLib : Sue…how lucky is The Planet to have advertisers who remind them to bill them???

SallyT : KT, I know! Especially that nut that is laughing all over the place in it.

SueInCa : Did A leave us?

SueInCa : Hey Adlib, send me a bill next week…lol

KillgoreTrout : Ha Sally, when I was a senior in HS, many years ago, one of the theaters in town showed it for like 2 weeks. My stoner friends and I would all gather for the midnight showing. Very stoned of course. It’ hilarious. The extent of disinformation and fear mongering, combined with the chessey acting and direction. Very humorous stuff.

SueInCa : yep

SallyT : And the prisons!

SueInCa : I think you have to have a license here Sally. I would have thought CA would be the first to legalize it. It sure would free up the cops of all agencies in Humboldt county.

SallyT : Our garbage man, works at same company at Mr. T, he has stopped a couple of times to show us how much are neighbor is throwing away!!

SallyT : It is legal to grow here for medical reasons.

SueInCa : Sally you are too funny. Sharon thinks you are a hoot.

SallyT : But, my daughter gave me some a ways back and I smoked it by myself and watched Whatever Happen To Baby Jane and laughed my ass off. Well, not literally.

SueInCa : KT you would think with all the time I have for the pc, I would do it, but I have problems watching movies on my laptop….don’t know why. I just have to bite the bullet

KillgoreTrout : Oh that’s right Sally. A month free trial.

SallyT : Sue, I never could inhale right, something else I have in common with Clinton.

SueInCa : KT do you think the Feds are afraid of just that? Weed could bring in a lot of revenue, the feds would want their cut but are afraid the states would refuse. Sally Rand Paul spent lots of time with the aqua buddha….

KillgoreTrout : Sue, that pissed me off too because it was such a whopping increase, but 16 bucks a month really isn’t all that bad.

SallyT : Rand Paul is pushing for it.

KillgoreTrout : There is also a very inviting tax incentive for legal weed. In these times, states are looking at the possibilites of such a new and plentiful revenue source.

SueInCa : KT I just started smoking again this past christmas, my bro bought me a pipe and all. I can take it in moderation.

SallyT : OMG, KT, have you ever watched Reefer Madness? What a HOOT!!

SueInCa : Well I agree too Adlib, I just cannot comment to much because I know I was not so active back then, to my shame

KillgoreTrout : Sally, Colorado and Washington are definitely test states. I think the feds are just watching and waiting to see what happens. I know, that none of the fed’s “Refer Madness,” fears will come to fruition. I’ve smoke weed on and off for over 40 years and have never experienced the shit they say in anti-pot articles and commercials.

AdLib : Sue – Lincoln took a principled stand on slavery even though half the nation was willing to secede because of it. He could have gone along with slavery because of its popularity and the threat his opposition represented. That’s when I think the rubber meets the road for a great leader. We can rationalize why Clinton was okay about signing DOMA, NAFTA, killing Glass-Steagall but I don’t see greatness in such actions.

SueInCa : Good deal Sally I will try.

SallyT : So, the Democrats better move fast on pot!

SueInCa : Thanks Sally I will add that to my growing list. Adlib I cannot say that I was really involved during the 90’s. In some ways I was, but not on the nitty gritty stuff. In fact I do not remember doma being passed…..

SallyT : Sue, I think you can get it for free on trial.

SallyT : Here, Sue. «link»

SueInCa : I may just have to pay for netflix, i got pissed when they separated the rent and watch online into two sep costs.

KillgoreTrout : Sue, it is a series produced for Netflix, starring Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright. He’s a congressman that was passed over for secretary of state and is pretty bitter about it. It shows the dog eat dog machinations behind what the public sees. A really good series.

SueInCa : Actually Sally I think some republicans in the state of Colorado were driving force behind legalization. There was a group back when CA voted against it.

SallyT : It is a series, Sue, that you can only get on NetFlix. It is great. You have to watch it. You will love it! Trust me!

AdLib : Sue – I’ve had friends who were gay and minorities most of my life so the concept of passing a law that would give 2nd class citizenship to any American was offensive to me and seemed so clearly wrong. I still don’t know of a rational argument that should have convinced any President to sign a law insuring that some Americans would be lesser than others.

SallyT : Well, regardless, I think they should legalize pot and the Democrats better say it first before the Republicans change their minds on that, too!

SueInCa : House of Cards? Sally?

KillgoreTrout : Oh yeah Sally. Very ruthless indeed. I wonder how far that show differs from the truth of things. I suspect it’s not much of an exaggeration.

SallyT : KT, have you watched House of Cards, yet? Talk about ruthlessness!

KillgoreTrout : I think sometimes, we average people don’t really know the extent of the ruthlessness that goes on behind the scenes in DC.

AdLib : Sally – Absolutely, in the game of blaming or crediting the Pres for job losses or gains, which the public is influenced by, I was all for throwing out the stats to help convince them to vote for Obama. It’s a political game that both the Dems and Repubs play with the public and the winner often wins the elections. But just because it’s an important game, it doesn’t mean it’s absolute.

SueInCa : Adlib you are a purist and so am I. I expect people to take a stand on the things that are important but I have to realize what may be important to me, is not important to them for different reasons.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, all president’s at times go with the flow of their constituents. I’m not saying it’s a noble thing to do, that’s just the nature of the office.

SueInCa : Their book was broken down into different segments of the economy so they knew what they wanted to do. If I can find it, I will post a link. I agree NAFTA was a bust and DOMA was wrong, but I think Sally is right in saying people were not real hip at that time regarding gay rights, hell we just got out of the 80’s when Reagan could not even say AIDS. KT that is funny. I, too, went with friends to Jan’s house for party we were surprised when there were no guys lol

SallyT : Regardless, AdLib, when President Obama was using those same “propagandas” we were all for it.

AdLib : Sally – IMO, it is propaganda to say that a President creates or loses jobs en masse. Economies are shaped by long term trends. For example, the economy that was booming under Clinton had started to lose steam even before Bush was elected so the recession that followed would have come no matter who was President. And if John Kerry won in 2004, the economy still would have crashed in 2008 and millions of jobs would have been lost under a Dem. Presidents make a contribution but they are not so powerful with regards to the economy of a nation.

KillgoreTrout : I got a strange, bewildered look back. It was actually pretty funny.

KillgoreTrout : A valuable experience Sue. I too worked for a lesbian couple who owned a small electronics manufacturing business. I was sent there as a temp, and they liked my work so much, they took me on permanent. I didn’t know they were gay for a while. They had me over to their home for drinks one night and they just sprung it on me. I didn’t care. One of them, Pam turned and looked at me and just blurted it out, “We’re gay.” I was a bit drunk at the time and I just said, Yeah, I’m pretty happy right now too.”

SueInCa : Actually Alan Simpson(?) pretty much said the same thing today about women’s rights adlib

AdLib : KT – It’s one thing for Dems not to have supported gay marriage in the 90’s but a whole other thing to sign a bill making it federal law to prevent them from marrying. I do believe in the freedom of people to have their own opinions on subjective issues but when they begin legislating their moral or religious beliefs to force them upon the entire nation, that’s crossing the line IMO.

SueInCa : Adlib one thing, Clinton and Gore wrote a book about how to improve the economy when and if they reached office so I think they both had a hand in pushing the jobs agenda.

SallyT : AdLib, that is not propaganda. If so, it was used by President Obama, too.

SueInCa : Well I finished and my hair looks lovely so I can talk for a few minutes more. In the mid 80’s I had a boss that was gay. I remember her getting ready for the march on Washington. They taught them civil disobedience and how to react if they were arrested. She used to share their meetings with me.

KillgoreTrout : Those laws were already passed and Obama didn’t have to directly face those issues until just a few years ago. Obviously the two men are not exactly the same, but time does make a huge difference. Just look at Rob Portman’s recent support of gay marriage.

SallyT : How at that time, President Obama would have acted with his feelings at that time, may have been the same. He has only changed recently.

AdLib : Sally – Bill Clinton did not create jobs, come on, this is the propaganda we opposed in the 2012 election. Presidents don’t create jobs or lose jobs. They don’t even pass laws that lower taxes, Congress does, they just sign them.

SallyT : The issue was us for the first time when Clinton was President.

AdLib : KT – I think the key here is that Obama never voted for or passed any law that reflected his personal belief about gay marriage (though it may only have been a political belief). He did nothing to force his views on others. Clinton did, big difference.

KillgoreTrout : Times really do change. Back in the 90s, gay rights didn’t have near the support they do know, even among dems. The world only moves forward.

SallyT : As part of his 93 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.

AdLib : Sally – Well…passing a law to demonize gay people was wrong back then to any unprejudiced person. Killing unions and domestic manufacturing was always wrong to those who support them. And Glass-Stegall, allowing banks to gamble with people’s money, that was always wrong too.

SallyT : 6 million jobs were created in 2 years under Clinton

KillgoreTrout : Ad, Obama was originally against gay marriage. He has shifted with the winds of change now and then. That’s part of what makes up a progressive. The willingness to change. I will never think Clinton is a closet RWer.

AdLib : KT – Don’t disagree, Obama has made mistakes along the way. Lincoln made some big mistakes and so did FDR. Their legacy though of being great Presidents came from their dedication to the people, their vision and how hard they fought for them. I see those traits in Obama but I don’t see Clinton as having fought hard for the rights of Americans. When did he do so?

SallyT : AdLib, second terms have things happen, too.

KillgoreTrout : I think as far as legacy goes, it does take a certain amount of courage to admit mistakes. Who was the last repub you’ve heard admitting mistakes?

SallyT : Many things have proven mistakes with time. I am sure that might happen to the President in 10 years. One can hope it won’t but no one sees the future. Well, not honestly.

AdLib : Sally – I don’t think you can name a DOMA or NAFTA when it comes to Obama. What law did Obama champion that was anywhere near that RW and damaging?

SallyT : People change with the times. Times do change leading to that.

KillgoreTrout : I think Obama is a great president, in many ways, but he’s made a few mistakes too. I will say his hand was forced a few times by the GOPers. He was pretty naive his first year, but no one can fault him for that. I do know he has an almost reverence toward the constitution.

SallyT : So did the President, AdLib.

AdLib : KT – He’s only come out decades after the damage he did, when public opinion is strongly on the other side of what he did, to say it was wrong. That doesn’t take courage. Heck, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly have switched their positions too.

SallyT : AdLib, those same things are said today about President Obama that he is more conservative than liberal but history will tell. 10 years from now people will point to mistakes but I will still like him more for the good than the bad, I am sure. DOMA he as said he was wrong. Glass-steagall was not getting enough opposition as it should back then. Probably people that were speaking up were told they were over reacting.

KillgoreTrout : So, how do you think the SC will decide on gay marriage?

AdLib : I think Pres. Obama has displayed the kind of leadership few Presidents have. He has tried to find compromise, bent over backwards for it but in the end, he has never sold out any segment of Americans to get something else he wanted. He has a bottom line of responsibility that he won’t compromise. I don’t see Bill Clinton in that way. Clinton had compassion for other people but he was available to compromise that if it meant he’d reap a political dividend. That’s not a great man. Obama however, I think he will be remembered as a great man.

KillgoreTrout : I think, deep down that Clinton’s heart was in the right place, but as I said, he was a street fighter when it came to politics. He has admitted several of his big mistakes, like DADT and DOMA!

AdLib : Sally – I let the resentment I felt for Bill after his racial attacks on Obama in the primaries, go. But it did affirm how Bill will do whatever he thinks it takes to get what he wants. I don’t think he is a great man, I think he did terrible harm to this nation by tearing apart the middle class through NAFTA, stigmatizing gays through DOMA and destroying our economy through killing Glass-Steagall. That’s all documented history, he was, as they say, one of the strongest Repub presidents. He accomplished many of their goals.

SallyT : The hedge funds are pretty safe no matter.

SallyT : President Obama has many corporate backers, as well. But, that is the way it has to be with the political system we have now.

KillgoreTrout : Well Ad, once a political operative, always a political operative.

SallyT : I don’t believe that, AdLib. He was helping President Obama to continue and for the party.

AdLib : KT – I don’t know enough about Clinton’s global initiative but I do know he is in bed with corps, hedge funds and others who are not interested in the well being of regular people. Remember how he attacked Obama last year for taking on hedge funds? I appreciate all he did to help Obama but it wasn’t wholly selfless, he didn’t want Hillary running against a second term incumbent Romney.

KillgoreTrout : I remember one very funny scene were they we all sitting around a table at restaraunt, talking about what wiped out the dinosaures. Some said, yeah, it was a meteor. Paully chimed in “De was all meat eaters.” Too funny.

KillgoreTrout : That’s funny Ad! I think I know the character you refer to. Some of his messing up of the english language with quite funny. It’s actually true with some of those guys. They try to sound educated, but really blow it at times.

SallyT : Look, if I was running for President, I would hope my husband would be helping me. When it was Obama that was to be the one for the party, Clinton came around to help. I don’t see that as two faced or racist. That is why they always say that running for office is harder on the spouses. They feel the hurt more.

AdLib : Night Sue! Have a wonderful Easter weekend!

KillgoreTrout : Sue, ah, a homemade cake! Drool, drool! Have a great weekend.

AdLib : KT – I met one of the actors from the Sopranos at a political meeting, he played the adult son of the NY boss and was always messing up quotes and using the wrong words, he said his character and father were based on Bush Jr. and Sr.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I look at him more in the light of what he’s done since leaving office. He wasn’t very good towards Obama, but he does have the ability to see where he has gone wrong. I think his global initiative may make up for some of his bigger mistakes.

SueInCa : had to respond but am now going….nite everyone.

SueInCa : Adlib could be why he got so angry at Chris Wallace…

SueInCa : ok peoples I knew I could not stay long gotta go ice the cake for tomorrow. It is a bitch attending two easters…..have a good Easter everyone. Yeah Adlib but I had some real serious discussions with people who disagreed, I was imagining that there was no reason to go to Iraq. They just knew a mushroom cloud was comin…my nephew went and his mother and I think he is still suffering health problems from it, he won’t blame the government though.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, a very fond memory, considering how “big,” Rush has become since.

AdLib : KT – I don’t know, I see Bill as more of a mercenary. He wheels and deals to get what he wants, not caring who gets hurts because of it. Consider this, DOMAN, NAFTA, killing Glass-Steagall.. .his decisions harmed the majority of Americans in profound ways. He was and is a corporatist and that’s how he governed.

KillgoreTrout : Sue, yeah, he didn’t speak to me again for months. I made his hero look bad.

KillgoreTrout : Ha Ad, there was one scene at the Bada Bing where tony and his cohorts were raising a glass to Dick Cheney for allowing certain loopholes that enabled his crew to screw the government on taxes.

SallyT : Sometimes you get shouted down at over reacting, too.

AdLib : Sue – It was a time for brave and principled people. It’s easy to stand up for the right thing when everyone around you is doing the same, it takes courage and a conscience to stand up when others want to knock you down.

SallyT : I guess more should have spoke up about those things at the time.

KillgoreTrout : I like Bill because he has the intelligence to change and realize some of his big mistakes. You’ll never see a repub doing that.

SueInCa : WTH? Why didnt you wait for him? Was he irritated too?

AdLib : KT – Love that story about you and Rush! Very cool, pal!

KillgoreTrout : Sue, my Libertarian brother in law stayed and I had to walk home. 32 miles. No bullshit.

SueInCa : I know adlib one thing though, it was a tough time to become active with all the flag waving on the way to Baghdad. You were a traitor if you did not agree with the war

AdLib : Sally – There was no need for Clinton to sign DOMA or NAFTA. He was fine with both of them because it served his agendas. I don’t respect that.

SallyT : That happens to all Presidents with history and looking back.

AdLib : Sue – Right. Well, the Bush years energized so many people to get involved and push back, it is depressing to go back and review all of the horrible things that went on back then. BTW, was watching a rerun of the Sopranos, which subtly took swipes at the Bush regime throughout, and saw Carmella Soprano reading the Bush bio, “Rebel In Chief”…don’t suppose that’s much of a collector’s item today.

KillgoreTrout : Me too Sally. Clinton was a real street fighter. Not always doing the right thing at first, but he knew how to kick GOP ass. I like Hillary for the same reason.

SueInCa : Dang KT you have been in some touchy situations lol. Good for you. I like people who are actively involved. Sally I did too but looking back there were things I would not agree with now.

KillgoreTrout : Sue, I am proud to say I once made Rush extremely angry one evening. This was back in the late 80s and my brother-in-law (a strict Libertarian) and I went to see him speak at a Ramada Inn. It was a small room, only about 60 people or so. He was going on and on about Thomas Jefferson and I kept raising my hand and asking him about Jefferson’s slaves. He was pissed and it didn’t take long for two of his minions to ask me to leave. They also wanted my name and address. I told them to kiss my hiney!

SallyT : Well, President Clinton was up against Republican control of things. I still like him for more good than bad.

SueInCa : i had been dormant for a long time, prob since my late to mid 30’s. work, raising a family, school at night….you name it

AdLib : I think Kennedy will make the 5th vote to kill DOMA, maybe ROberts will join as well, only to look better in history but not because he would have voted that way if he was the 5th vote.

SueInCa : Adlib he did a lot of things I would look back now and think wth? I was not real politically astute back then so it went over my head. Bush, 9/11 and war with Iraq turned me into a politically active person, oh and the patriot act

AdLib : Still have to say, I did not like Bill Clinton as Pres for a number of reasons and his signing DOMA into law is one of the big ones.

SueInCa : Who do you think will go pro gay marriage on Scotus?

KillgoreTrout : Good point Ad. I noticed he didn’t say he was in favor of it.

SueInCa : KT I will google it and see if I can still find the story, the word was want to see him go apeshit? Ask about his Christie days

AdLib : KT – Rush is conceding something that is already lost so he doesn’t have to stay on the hook, fighting against a lost cause. He’s a coward, like most bullies.

SueInCa : I think lil kim still would not get it, the only one he will get is in his own backyard

KillgoreTrout : Sue, no I haven’t.

KillgoreTrout : Sue, it’s awesome AND a bit frightening. Well worth viewing though. Maybe we should send a copy to little Kim!

AdLib : Sue – Yes, the hysteria is so over the top, Kim Jong-Un might as well be running in circles with his hair on fire screaming, “Everything’s under control!”

SueInCa : Truth KT? Rush is prob bi-sexual. Ever hear of his Christie days?

SueInCa : ok rent on amazon for 2.99 added it to my wish list

KillgoreTrout : Yeah Sue, it is. Love the guy.

SueInCa : kt is it william shatner? narrating?

KillgoreTrout : I hear Rush said gay marriage rights were inevitable. That was a bit of a surprise.

SallyT : It is not so much the Rooster crowing in the morning but what he does to the hens the rest of the day.

AdLib : Sue – Not only did we get a full compliment of RW homophobes howling around the MSM but other Repubs came out throwing slurs at Latinos. The party of hatred, the guys just can’t help themselves.

KillgoreTrout : Yeah Sue, I like Amazon for their Showtime and HBO rentals.

SueInCa : Oh I am sure we do Adlib. N Korea reminds me of a rooster crowing in the morning, then being lazy the rest of the day

KillgoreTrout : Oh, you’ll love it. It begins with the first a-bomd at Trinity, to what we have now. We even have an artillery piece that fires a normal look 155mm round, but the round delivers 15 kilotons of explosive force. Fired from a friggin cannon!

AdLib : Sue – 60 Minutes did a piece on Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense which has almost fully neutralized the missiles being launched at them by Hamas. You’ve got to imagine we’ve got at least that capability.

SueInCa : kt you always have the best movie referrals. I still need to watch red state and now this one. I was going to go join netflix but have not gotten around to it. amazon rents movies via pc too

SueInCa : I am amazed at all the homophobs that came out of the wood work this week, everywhere

AdLib : KT – It is mindblowing. I’ll watch that tonight!

AdLib : So what do you think of the RW SCOTUS jumping through all kinds of crazy arguments to justify their homophobic views?

SueInCa : i laugh at kim jung un, he obviously is not fam w/missle defense systems

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I was awestruck. They don’t just explode, they go through over a full minute of releasing unfathomable heat and energy. Starting with Gamma rays down to X rays and then pure heat. A million degrees or more. The Russians actually built a 56 megaton bomb and tested it over Siberria. Just mind boggling to see.

SueInCa : lol i got cut and the w/e is jammed so am dryin 2nite will last to sunday

AdLib : Sue – That could be Guinness Book of Records multitasking!

SueInCa : yeah, she was not tho

AdLib : KT – That part is so funny, their fantasy of beating back the US Army with their small arms…and other small appendages.

KillgoreTrout : Sue, Ooh La La! That’s millionaire territory!

SueInCa : hey adlib blo drying hair and tryin to chat

AdLib : KT – I will check it out. The power of these weapons is horrible and awesome.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I’m sure some of their paranoid members would love to have such a thing They all think they can take on the US military, with small arms fire.

AdLib : Evening Sue!

SueInCa : kt my daughter lived in La Jolla and Mira Mesa for 6 years, it was heavenly to go down and have a place to stay

KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue. I’ve been California dreaming lately. I used to live in north San Diego county, and I miss it.

SueInCa : Talking about the little guy in N Korea?

SueInCa : Hello everyone. Nice night here in Benicia

KillgoreTrout : Ad, true. it’s always the civilians that suffer the most. I was just showing how powerful our weapons really are. There is a great doc on Netflix called Trinity and Beyond. A 20 megaton device is simply awesome to see detonated. It’s like a large piece of the sun hitting the earth.

AdLib : So does the NRA support citizens having their own nuke missiles to defend against people like Kim Jong-Un launching nukes at them?

AdLib : I wonder if there are any drones in the vicinity of NK…

KillgoreTrout : Well, aloha and aloha to you!

AdLib : KT – The thing is, we would never use our nukes unless we were hit first and NK, which doesn’t even have that capability, knows that. We shouldn’t nuke NK anyway, most of the people there are starving prisoners of a tyrant and surely don’t deserve to be blown up.

SallyT : You have a wonderful Easter, too, Bourne!

BourneID : Hey all..I hit the return button by mistake, I dropped in but just to say hello. I’m logging out now – too much to do. Again, enjoy the weekend.

KillgoreTrout : Oh, I agree. I wonder what China thinks about all this.

AdLib : Hey Bourne! Nice to see you, a wonderful Easter to you too!

AdLib : KT – That’s exactly what ratcheted up NK’s paranoia and hysteria. They have been more and more threatening towards SK and shunning talks to reign in their nukes, eventually the US had to step on their toes with a show of force and they freaked out. Even so, they would be decimated by a war and they know it.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Bourne, same to you. Glad to see ya here.

BourneID : AdLiv, Sally, KT and mystery guest…dropped in to say hi and have a wonderful Easter.

KillgoreTrout : Sally, LOL!

KillgoreTrout : They’re still trying to perfect an atom bomb, and we have Hydrogen thermonuclear devices that make the Hiroshima bomb look like a firecracker.

AdLib : It may be hard for us to connect with the mindset of the NK leaders but just imagine they are Republicans, they lie and saber rattle but deep down, are cowards with no substance.

SallyT : One of his targets was Austin Tx. That could help them secede from the US!

KillgoreTrout : He probably soiled his undies when he heard about two B2 bombers appearing out of nowhere. B52s also. Both of which are nuclear capable.

AdLib : Sally – But the US and/or NATO has alliances with those other countries so NK would be in big trouble still.

AdLib : KT – China would be freaking out because a US involved war with NK would be horrible for business.

KillgoreTrout : I read the other day that officials in Hawaii are not really worried. This POS would be lucky to hit SK.

AdLib : KT – I don’t know that NK could afford to finance a war with SK anyway. It is a legit threat to them but it is fantasy land for Kim Jong-Un to threaten the US.

KillgoreTrout : True Ad, but they heads are so collectively thick, it might take several more losses for the to wake up. But then, they’d be progressives. Oh the irony!

SallyT : I didn’t say he would attack the US. He doesn’t have missiles that can reach us. But, there are closer targets.

AdLib : Sally – But he can’t really go that far, NK doesn’t have the capability to attack the US with nukes, it’s all BS.

KillgoreTrout : I wonder what China would have to say if we struck NK?

AdLib : KT – True that. Though staying anti-gay and anti-Latino just isn’t working for them anymore, the rest will keep crumbling down around them.

KillgoreTrout : I might be worried if I were in South Korea. Here in the state though, no worries. That little shit in N. korea is out of his little mind if he thinks he can take us on.

SallyT : Maybe so but he might just be the nut job that goes too far with it.

SallyT : Cheney wanted to go after NK in 2004.

AdLib : Sally – I don’t find him scary at all, this is the kind of theater NK has played under its emotionally immature leadership.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, the nature of conservatism is resistance to change. I know they stand for the status quo, but that is exactly their problem.

AdLib : I’ll bet the RW nutjobs are just salivating at the prospect of war with NK…even though it is so clearly a lot of impotent saber rattling.

SallyT : Nope. But, that little jerk is getting scary!

AdLib : So, ready for war with North Korea?

AdLib : I got it, KT!

AdLib : Comment ca va and wussup?

KillgoreTrout : HOWL, that’s a Ginsberg greeting! (I’m being facetious)

AdLib : KT – Just trying to plot out the turn of events in the big picture. The Repubs will do better in 2014 because many Dems in Red states are retiring, I can see this going to their heads and validating their delusions that the country has come back to their extremist side, blowing it out hard right in 2016 and losing hugely.

SallyT : HOW! Blackfoot greeting.

KillgoreTrout : Hey friend, Aloha! Just to throw a little Hawaiian in the mix!

AdLib : Konnichiwa Sally!

KillgoreTrout : The repubs are doing a GOP autopsy! Any Planeteer could tell them what they’re doing wrong!

SallyT : There you are KT and AdLib! For a moment I thought I connected to Japan!

AdLib : I wonder…if the Repubs don’t do horribly in 2014, might they not think they are popular again and really blow it big time steering far right in 2016?

KillgoreTrout : Same here.

AdLib : It was indeed though the Repubs keep trying to forget about it.

KillgoreTrout : Well, Nov. 7th last year was a good morning.

AdLib : Yep, that’s one of the few phrases I know.

KillgoreTrout : DOO ITASHIMASHITE basically means, you are welcome.

AdLib : Good Morning, I believe. Depending on election results.

KillgoreTrout : I forget, but does Ohio mean morning, or good morning?

AdLib : Now we have exhausted all of my Japanese…excep t for Ohio but since Kasich was elected, I don’t say that much.

KillgoreTrout : DOO ITASHIMASHITE!

AdLib : KT – Domo to you! How’s that back?

KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad, Hi and Arigatoo.

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “DOMA arigato!” when you arrive.

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!