Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then! AdLib 6 hours ago

I am here early. I will hangout until others come aboard. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Hey Murph! AdLib 4 hours ago

Tired? AdLib 4 hours ago

Hi! MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Of course. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

I saw Kunce is in stiking distance. AdLib 4 hours ago

He’s up and Greitens is down, they’re in a statistical tie and with the idie candidate, Kunce could pull it off. AdLib 4 hours ago

Yes…..and if Wood runs as an “independent” (old style GOP)…he should draw votes away from Greitens MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Yes, Wood is who I was referring to. AdLib 4 hours ago

Hey TW! AdLib 4 hours ago

Hello TW….. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Hello everyone. twilson117 4 hours ago

Well the repugs made a mess as they usually do. twilson117 4 hours ago

TW….how so? MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

So quick to jump on the story about the 10 year old. twilson117 4 hours ago

Just saw two bits of breaking news. They’ve identified a top Trump campaign staffer as the one handling the fraudulent elector papers so the link to Trump is now concrete. And Ken Buck in CO is on tape explicitly ordering an elections staffer to change election results for a Repub primary. Wow, the tape of the call is damning. AdLib 4 hours ago

TW – And also the RW Christian extremists are declaring that abortions that make them look like monsters aren’t abortions. AdLib 4 hours ago

Did you see the video of Swalwell at the hearing with an anti-abortion nutjob who declared that when 10 year olds get abortions, they’re not abortions and not prevented? Just straight out lies and he nailed her. AdLib 4 hours ago

Murph – This is what Kunce posted on Twitter this week:

AdLib 4 hours ago

In my red, red, red, ultra Christian environment….I had this conversation with a pastor I know…..a baptist……he told me that he is already seeing ruptures in Church Boards over abortion and contraception. He predicts that the conflict will further secularize “his people” who then walk away. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

And here’s the newscast with the recording of that Ken Buck call. He committed a crime dead to rights of election fraud and so did the whole Republican party in CO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZAIzZYARQ
https://www.youtube.com/embed/o6ZAIzZYARQ?wmode=transparent&jqoemcache=AMoVN AdLib 4 hours ago

Yes I saw that. twilson117 4 hours ago

Ad….Kunce’s staff is very good at those kind of graphics…. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Murph – So is the pastor saying they will walk away from his church to a more extremist church or walk away from church period? AdLib 4 hours ago

Here’s that other story:

Trump campaign operative who delivered Jan. 6 false elector lists is identified:

In a last ditch effort to help Trump overthrow democracy, Mike Roman passed the names to a House GOP aide in a bid to get them to VP Mike Pence. https://t.co/JzFeCjPeVa“>https://t.co/JzFeCjPeVa

https://twitter.com/January6thCmte?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw“>@January6thCmte https://twitter.com/DOJCrimDiv?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw“>@DOJCrimDiv— Bill Madden (he/him/él) 🇺🇦 (@maddenifico) https://twitter.com/maddenifico/status/1548121014604742657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw“>July 16, 2022
https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1548121014604742657&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwidget-b.flyzoo.co%2Fchatrooms%2Fchatroom%3Fxto%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fplanetpov.com%252F%26url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fplanetpov.com%252F%26idWebsite%3D53f264e0684ea81a905e562d%26mode%3Dundefined%26id%3D5409fa15684ea8126cbd2fec%26mobile%3Dfalse%26gcn%3Dnull%26w%3D1262%26h%3D490%26hs%3D490%26fzla%3Dauto&sessionId=189bda3cc8ed2a806406a2bce732ac211febfda3&theme=light&widgetsVersion=3235bd17138fa%3A1657578976990&width=300px AdLib 4 hours ago

There are so many stories like the Co. one out there….I hope that more emerge as the foul odor of decay permeates the Grand Old Party. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

And how about that lying sack of manure, Manchin? For over a year he has been swearing he wants to end the Trump tax break for the wealthy and now declares he won’t. I don’t know if I despise him more than Repub Senators…if there’s a difference. AdLib 4 hours ago

Murph – I hope US Attorneys and State DAs like the one in GA are on top of this and will prosecute all these criminals in the GOP. AdLib 4 hours ago

Ad…I think the pastor is saying that the church will be split with quite a few walking away from any association with a congregational belief….and that a smaller number will become further radicalized and leave for more fundamendalist churches. He loses from both sides. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Guys I’m at a lost as to why the those who feel their party is being trashed aren’t move vocal around what they are seeing, what are they waiting for? twilson117 4 hours ago

Murph – I see, unfortunately that makes sense. Do you know if he opposes abortion? If so, because of what’s happened, it would seem he’d lose the MAGAs and the majority who support choice. AdLib 4 hours ago

TW – This is how fascism works. The many are silent, some are scared to speak out against the fascist leaders and others are apathetic. The fascists are always a minority but their hostility gives them power. And also, Repubs are pretty selfish overall, they were fine with Trump tearing our democracy and country apart as long as they got gratification from who he hurt. Repubs are not built to stand up to fascism. They would have made good Nazi-accepting Germans. AdLib 4 hours ago

Ad….as a Baptist Pastor I am certain that he opposes abortion (which he frames as cherishing life) but I have heard in address the complexity of the entire question from a number of angles that tell me his position is nuanced and tempered by pastoral necessity. MurphTheSurf3 4 hours ago

Ad I agree with you. It corresponds to something I heard Raskin say last night about democracy about how there are always forces working against it. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – I don’t criticize him for his belief but if he was able to express respect for thiose who disagree, and also talk about the attached issue of forcing 10 year old rape victims to have a life destroying pregnancy and birth, he could retain those who are Baptist but believe in the right to abortion and that women should not be slaves of the state. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad…..if the Dems hold the Senate, and expand their control as needed….among other things, I want them to go after Mancin. Primary him when the time comes, take away his committee chair and vice chair positions and put him into coventry to limit his contact with the broader party. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

TW – Yep, That’s what I learned with the rise of the fascist GOP beginning with Reagan. As Superman describes fighting evil, the neverending battle. I used to think that once we made progress, we can look ahead to the next conflicts but I’ve learned, these truly evil folks will never stop trying to pull down progress no matter how established it is. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad, I think that the Pastor is torn….I do not think he sees a way out of this…I expect him to resign before he is fired. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph – You don’t know how many times I’ve imagined just wanting to punch Manchin in that smug face but I think Dems should just leave him alone for now, get those 2+ seats and then as you say, relegate him to weak committees and cut him out of all meaningful discussions about all issues. He is so obviously bought and paid for and hateful towards the suckers who keep electing him. It’s really disgusting. AdLib 3 hours ago

Was at lunch with another friend talking about how we seem to be losing our hold on democracy. twilson117 3 hours ago

Historically fascist parties have been backed by the wealthiest class cadres and social reactionaries who a deep distrust of “mob rule”…they believe in ruling elites. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph – I understand the pastor’s situation. The bottom line is that the issue has morphed into white men having domination over women and the poor and women retreiving their freedom. So many of the things Repubs and SCOTUS are doing are about stripping people of rights, controlling them and for pastors who have a genuinely thoughtful reason for opposing abortion, they’re now in bed with White Nationalists and fascists. It’s untenable to anyone of true conscience. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad Manchin is using his supposed power to get everything he wants, because he knows this is the only time he will be able to do it. If the Dems hold the Sen. and pick up seats he’s done, if the Repugs win he’s done. So he’s going to palay the cards he has now. twilson117 3 hours ago

Manchin’s corruption is just so obvious……but the power of stupidity, and ignorance among the voters allow people like him who slickly skate around barriers to end up where they want to reside. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

TW – Think about it, Miranda rights are gone, Feds now can come into your home and assault you and you have no recourse, many people can’t vote without going through Herculean feats, states now own women like chattle and are even trying to imprison them in their state if they’re pregnant, the SCOTUS is considering a case to overthrow our democracy…yep, we are on the bringk of losing our democracy indeed. AdLib 3 hours ago

Sd….well said…I am going to share your summary with the Pastor…..he told me a few days that he is facing a revolt on his church board and with board elections around the corner it looks like the ultra rightists and making a grab for majority control of the board. If that happens he will resign. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

TW – So true! And I wouldn’t be surprised if Repubs won The Senate, and I don’t think they will, then he would flip to be a Repub to have power again. The only upside to Repubs winning control though is at least never having to read about Manchin having power again. AdLib 3 hours ago

Not the world I want my granddaughter to grow up in but it is what she will be facing. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph sounds like open rebellion in your church over this Dodd decision. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – For so many low information voters, voting is just a popularity contest. Manchin is so well known by them, they just vote for him because they know his name. Hate to sound condescending but his voters are not very bright. WV remains one of the poorest and troubled states in the nation and Manchin acts again and again to hurt them, block them from getting help and refers to them as irresponsible and fools often. That’s why he opposed money going to them, he claimed they would just use it foolishly. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW….lunch dates like the one you describe are echoed in my own experience. People who I think of as fundamentally GOP, and who shut down their own inner doubt dialogue in the past, are voicing more and more concern about where we are going and blaming the leadership of the GOP for that. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Guys here’s the thing. Dem’s could keep the house and senate, but the fact the SC is coming down with crazy decisions things will still be a mess. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – The corruption of religion really went into turbo charge when Trump was elected. They threw away any shred of religious principles and even profaned their religions by naming Trump as their new Jesus. Fascism always swallows up religion and repurposes it as a tool to sustaing fascism. That’s where many churches are stuck now. Many who are religious are also just as faith-based about Trumpism/fascism. They can’t be separated. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW…the rebellion you refer to is between the “old/moderate” fundamentalists and the “new/Radical fundamentalists. People like my pastor friend who believe that ignorance is not bliss but a blight have no place to lay their heads. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

TW – I think many parents will insist their daughters not go to college or move to any of these fascist states. They will suffer in the end. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW…if the Dems hold the house and expand their lead in the Senate…..they will need to push through an expansion of the Supreme Court…and then confirm Biden’t nominees. They will also end the filibuster rules as they now stand to provide the ground upon which judicial balance and temperance is restored. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph well I think they are right for blaming the GOP leadership for what is happening. They had the power to stop Trump** but didn’t because they wanted him to do what he did. So they got their tax cuts, bullying China, which by the way is a really really dumb thing to do, and their push for their concept of theocratic governing and it’s not working they way they thought it would for those who are moderate. The crazies are in charge of the Republican party now. And they want just see the world burn. twilson117 3 hours ago

TW – That’s why the first three things a Dem Congress with at least 52 Senate seats needs to do is pass Roe into law, pass Voting Rights and reform the SCOTUS to add 4 more Justices and limit their power and terms. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad I generally agree with your assessment of the role of religion in the vitality of the right but I also note that churches have been major forces in the social reform movements of the late 19th and 20th century. Of course, those churches are neither evangelical or fundamentalist. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Ad, hmm, daughters not going to college, I don’t know about that, I need to think on that one for a bit. twilson117 3 hours ago

TW Leadership by weak willed opportunists never ends well. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph – Choicelady is living proof of how religious people can be constructive, progressive and conscientious. I’m not slamming all religion, primarily focusing on the religious conservatives who have so lost their vision of biblical teaching, they are just a vindictive and anti-democratic mob. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW – You know I didn’t want my daughter going to college in a red state for this very reason. Now that Roe is ended, what thoughtful parent would send their daughter to go to college in a red state where a drunk college boy could rape them and she would be forced to have the baby and rapist in her life forever? Not me. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad I was reading an article around theocracy and it was interesting how the author pointed out that it’s not what people think it its. twilson117 3 hours ago

TW – Please go on about the article, what did they say theocracy is? AdLib 3 hours ago

Stephens College is a private women’s college in Columbia, Missouri. It is the second-oldest women’s educational establishment that is still a women’s college in the United States. Although small it has an outsized place in the states public profile with bragging rights included. The board of trustees, almost all women, is considering closing the school here and moving to a blue state…..the abortion decision lit the fuse but there are a half dozen other “issues” that they believe will be address by the company of troglodytes who have no interested in true advancement. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Ad…..to me the gospel makes it clear that Yeshua (Jesus) and his teachings find their true home in reformed churches with a powerful social agenda. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

In the end, fascism and theocracy will never survive in the U.S.. It can’t work and Americans as a majority will not accept it. The Repubs going nuts now in wanting to prevent women from traveling freely in the US if they’re pregnant and other draconian, tyrannical measures, will backfire hugely. AdLib 3 hours ago

Well it pointed out that it’s not a monolithic concept as many fundamentalist’s believe it is. Because theocracy by it’s very nature covers all religions not just Christian Fundamentalism. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – I know there are wonderful, thoughtful, good-hearted people in MO as in every state but Stephens College is right and they are smart, they see the writing on the wall and it will be hard but moving to a blue state will preserve their mission as a college. AdLib 3 hours ago

Ad and TW…I do not a daughter to advise re. wariness of taking up residence in a red state….but I have shared your insights (often as direct quotes) with those I know well who have daughters but expanded the concern about college into all of the entry experiences (like first jobs) that would be jeopardized by an unwanted but now required pregnancy. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Ad….I also think that Stephens is facing a revolt from their faculty and student leaders….they regard abandoning this state as a matter of principle. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Well my late son’s daughter lives in a red state, and in a couple of years she will be going to college in OK. BTW she is here now. She spent the week with my daughter she will be with us on Sunday. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – The thing is, most Americans know at least the basics about the teachings of Jesus and they are about love, kindness and generosity. None of what these RW religious types is compatible with Christianity as the Bible defines it and most can see that. And putting religion aside, great people like Gandhi, MLK, etc. spoke of the same things along with the dignity of human beings to have rights and respect. What historical figures spoke of oppression, tyranny and hatred? Hitler, Putin, Stalin, etc. They still think they’re heroes in this story when they are plainly villains. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW…..of course the tendency in religious experience is to claim that particular expressions of faith (the “religions”) lead to the belief that “The Divine” has chosen them to be THE religious experience that is the most cherished and most blessed by “God” MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph – College is a wild experience even for the most conservative students. But nowadays, especially in states with misogyny promoted, like most red states, it can be more dangerous for young women who can be drugged at parties or just fed more alcohol than they can handle. being raped is horrendous enough but imagine making that a lifelong tragedy for one’s own daughter. Unacceptable risk. AdLib 3 hours ago

Murph, well, yeah you’re right about the “religious experience” but that same “religious experience” has given us pretty nasty things that we are still trying to get out from under. twilson117 3 hours ago

Ad..which is why the right is compelled to take control of churches and to take the high ground representing their take on faith as the only valid one. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Ad…once again you expand my horizons…as horrific as that is. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

I recommend Robert P. Jones’s book , White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity. It’s very interesting read. twilson117 3 hours ago

Murph – Yes, that too, I’m sure many students and professors at Stephens are very upset and frightened at where things are now and how they could get worse. Some states are looking at criminalizing women themselves, some are even talking about the state monitoring women and their cycles. It is terrifying for a woman to be at risk like this of growing oppression and domination. They know they don’t need to stay and live like this. AdLib 3 hours ago

TW…thanks for the recommendation. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Did you all see that the January 6th Committee has sent a subpoena to the Secret Service demanding their records re. the “disappeared” texts. MurphTheSurf3 3 hours ago

Murph, I’m working my way through it. As I’ve been saying for some time I have this need to write a set of articles on religion and have them published in Medium but need to get more information. But they will be coming. twilson117 3 hours ago

TW – You know abortion is outlawed now in OK. TX is suing the Feds now to overturn the requirement that abortions take place if the life of the mother is at risk. OK is following TX and passing a vigilante law to allow citizens to sue anyone who has or helps someone get an abortion. I would not feel confident about being a young college woman in OK, not trying to scare you but that’s the way it really is there and getting worse. AdLib 3 hours ago