Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then! AdLib 3 hours ago

Hey Khirad! AdLib 3 hours ago

Whilst you wait, I have a flag quiz. The prize is… I’ll design a flag for you. My friend was like, I don’t need clues. We’ll see about that. Khirad 3 hours ago

Sounds fun! AdLib 3 hours ago

In short posts. Khirad 3 hours ago

I’m gonna fix myself a cuppa and got dishes running. Khirad 3 hours ago

Okay, that works! Just replying to your recent comments there now. AdLib 3 hours ago

Sorry I’m sorry anxious and impatient. Khirad 3 hours ago

Sounds good! Gonna grab a bite myself before Vox starts. Always gets my keyboard messy when I wait too long. AdLib 3 hours ago

Hey Khirad! AdLib 2 hours ago

Are we still an hour, I can never figure that out still. It’s 6:00 Arizona time Khirad 2 hours ago

Yep, 1 hour away, AZ is an hour ahead of CA. Though politically, it is many years behind. AdLib 2 hours ago

Heh! AdLib 2 hours ago

Either way, right wing pacs are running ads FOR Sinema praising her for standing up against the Socialists and telling people to tell Mark Kelly to do the same. Disingenuous? I got more chores. Khirad 2 hours ago

Ok, see you shortly! AdLib 2 hours ago

Well, hi – Khirad is out so it’s just us? choicelady an hour ago

TW popped in – hooray! choicelady an hour ago

Hey CL! AdLib an hour ago

Hi TW! AdLib an hour ago

Hello everyone, how are all of you doing? twilson117 an hour ago

Hi Ad and TW! choicelady an hour ago

CL – Khirad will be back. AdLib an hour ago

Ad and CL is it just going to be us tonight? twilson117 an hour ago

Doing well, TW. And you? AdLib an hour ago

Doing fine for an old guy.

twilson117 an hour ago

How are things your way, CL? AdLib an hour ago

Tw – one never knows who shows up and who doesn’t. Haven’t seen Murph for a couple of weeks, and Harleigh? No clue. choicelady an hour ago

TW – Heh! AdLib an hour ago

Hello Murph twilson117 an hour ago

CL – Look who just came in! AdLib an hour ago

Hey Murph! AdLib an hour ago

Hi All….. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi PPO! AdLib an hour ago

Hey PPO twilson117 an hour ago

Ad – thinks are about same as usual save the weather. Had an inch of rain last night. They predict with the weather “Bomb” that we could get 2-5″ tomorrow night through tuesday. choicelady an hour ago

Hi all. thaks so much for your great notes and wishes. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO!!! Love to see you here. choicelady an hour ago

CL – Send some of that rain down my way! AdLib an hour ago

PPO – we dearly love you. You are cared for and about. choicelady an hour ago

Hello PPO…..again, my heartfelt condolences at your loss, and a sense of peace tonight as you join us. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad – the line of demarcation seems uncertain. SOME predictions are that you will get some rain out of the massive storm. Hope that holds true. choicelady an hour ago

PPO glad you’re here twilson117 an hour ago

MURPH!! choicelady an hour ago

PPO – As CL says, you’re one of the family here. AdLib an hour ago

CL – If we don’t get rain, I may sue. AdLib an hour ago

OK Ad – but don’t sue ME, sue NOAA. choicelady an hour ago

I have been under the weather….so I may just sit on the sidelines. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

So, might Bannon be arrested next week? AdLib an hour ago

To all of you: my heart is broken in many ways, but it is full of love for you all. I never knew the extent that our little site had in building lasting and true friendships. I look forward to seeing some of you in the next few weeks. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hey Murph – what’s ailing you if we may ask? choicelady an hour ago

Hopefully nothing serious Murph twilson117 an hour ago

Complicated….and being worked on. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO – we can’t WAIT to meet you. You do understand that I am most literal minded and expect you to be either pink or look exactly like your Twitter avatar. Or both. choicelady an hour ago

PPO I understand twilson117 an hour ago

Murph – do NOT like the sound of that, but getting treated is always better than not. choicelady an hour ago

Yep. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO – So true, it’s so easy to take it for granted that we just chat here Friday nights, comment and post here and there and share a few songs on the music thread. But we have shared so much of ourselves here, our concerns, our consciences and our passions. It does feel like a close knit community when you step back for a moment. AdLib an hour ago

As the newest member – I think I agree PPO twilson117 an hour ago

I won’t be here for very long – just wanted to say thanks and send love. I do hope Bannon and the insurrectionists get jail time for all of the mayhem. Looks as if some judges are sending them, rightly, away. I’d like to see more jailtime, but with a prison record, their futures are, in a word, Kaput! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – Always want to respect everyone’s privacy, I just hope you’re feeling and getting better. AdLib an hour ago

PPO – for someone I have yet to meet, you have commanded my heart. That’s true of everyone here. I know only AD in person, but everyone feels like a part of my life and history. You are very much included. choicelady an hour ago

PPO I’m with you on that he deserves nothing better. twilson117 an hour ago

PPO….I stopped by tonight hoping to run into you. I am glad you are here. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO – we hope the same. Imprisoning Bannon for Fergie and PPO! That’s my motto now. choicelady an hour ago

PPO – Yes, Bannon needs to be the one who is made the example. Jail him for ignoring the subpoena and indict and convict him for his acts of treason. AdLib an hour ago

Murph, CL, tha nks so much! If you watched my little service for Fergie, you will have seen me. You bloody well can’t miss me! I’m BIG! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

It is possible to put him in jail more easily than they are doing. It is essential they do it – Grand Jury and the works. There can be NOT wiggle room for the Right to call this a witch hunt, illegitimate, a kangaroo court. I hate it, but it’s essential. choicelady an hour ago

From what I’vew been reading the Repubs are falling all over themselves twilson117 an hour ago

It’s really very simple. Why would Trump need to call together all these people on 1/5 if all he was doing was giving a speech? There is no logic to it, it is plain as day as is Bannon’s quote about hell breaking loose on 1/6. AdLib an hour ago

LOL – I have NOT seen it yet, PPO. Where can I find it? I would love to see it. choicelady an hour ago

https://smct.org.au/view/631872234 is the video if you want to visit or revisit. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Oh thank you! choicelady an hour ago

BTW there is filling for the first 12 or so minutes pinkpantheroz an hour ago

I too want to look, PPO. I will make it must viewing. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO I would also like to view it. twilson117 an hour ago

PPO – I really appreciated watching the service. You did a great job in describing Oonagh, how you two met and who she was and how respected she was. And playing your father’s song was so meaningful too. AdLib an hour ago

Khirad is in sthe house twilson117 an hour ago

Hey Khirad! AdLib an hour ago

I wish we could have been with you, PPO. We were there in spirit, but that’s a pretty hollow comfort. choicelady an hour ago

Bann on the run… Khirad an hour ago

Khirad! choicelady an hour ago

You all were. Thanks. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Khirad, what??? twilson117 an hour ago

Khirad- GREAT!!!

choicelady an hour ago

Ich zu Hause. Khirad an hour ago

PPO – when you have time and inclination, we’d like to read about her, see photos, videos that you might have. I “know” her through you, but I’d love to know more.] choicelady an hour ago

I will design a flag if anyone can get three on my quiz of flags. I’ll make it easier. Khirad an hour ago

CL – The only thing I disagree with is any more slowing down of things out of worry that the RW will accuse Dems and the DoJ of a political prosecution. They are doing it now and will do it anyway, no matter how careful Dems are. Dems and the DoJ need to ignore that because there is no way to prevent the accusations that Repubs will make. AdLib an hour ago

PPO….I download the service to watch it in full. I did a fast flit through it until I got to you. So natural. So sincere. The setting is beautiful. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Khirad – if it’s not Canada, UK, and the USA, maybe Sweden and South Africa, I don’t know flags. I know only ONE ship pennant – the ensign Bravo. I’m not good at these things. choicelady an hour ago

CL, Ad kindly put Oonagh’s photos up on To/OT pinkpantheroz an hour ago

So I heard West Virginia’s coal industry makes up 3% of their economy? Khirad an hour ago

Oh – I will go look, PPO. Thank you. choicelady an hour ago

Khirad – yes, that’s correct about WV,. but it makes up 90% of Manchin’s income. choicelady an hour ago

Yes CL, check the memorial thread to Fergie, you’ll find photos there now of Oonagh and a great photo of them as a dapper couple. AdLib an hour ago

CL – you’re hot. I’ll give clues to that affect. Khirad an hour ago

OK – I have NOT read it through. I will make sure I do. choicelady an hour ago

I made it hard, but I’ll give clues. Khirad an hour ago

Ad…what a fine service and extraordinary kindness on your part. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Khirad – I actually heard that the 3% was the amount of WV population that actually still works in the coal business. Like 27k people out of over 300 million people in the country and billions in the world who will all suffer if we can’t reduce climate change. But Manchin is a corrupt one. AdLib an hour ago

AdLib, that’s it. Khirad an hour ago

Murph – Thanks but PPO just sent me the photos and I just uploaded them. What a sweet-looking woman and a real trailblazer! AdLib an hour ago

I wrote one last email to Sinema… Primary. If she’s gonna be a Republican… than maybe McSally should have won. It kinda hurts to admit that. Khirad an hour ago

Ad…still..it is your platform…..thank you. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad don’t get Manchin holding on to coal mining even the miners know it’s a dying business. twilson117 an hour ago

I want to draw Sinema as Lady Godiva. Although mixed metaphors… Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – Well, Dems have been accomplishing a lot more because Sinema’s win gave Dems control of The Senate. So that is something but Sinema has to be destroyed in her primary…which won’t be until 2024 unfortunately. If only we could add just 2 reasonable Dem senators in 2022, Sinema and Manchin become placemats. AdLib an hour ago

Murph – The Planet is its membership, we’re a community and everyone is so valued. AdLib an hour ago

And Sinema knows that – but she was Green and said exactly the opposite running for the Arizona senate. Play the tape. Khirad an hour ago

TW – Manchin makes $500k per year from his interest in a coal business in WV. He is by definition, corrupt. AdLib an hour ago

I always figured Mark Kelly would be the more conservative dem in Arizona. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad is the reporting accurate that Sinema is playing to her big contributors? twilson117 an hour ago

How should any Senator be allowed to vote on a bill that directly profits him? The Senate is a swamp. AdLib an hour ago

And I want to write as an Arizonan since I know local media, but she ain’t talking to nobody – and yes Pharma. Khirad an hour ago

Ad I know he’s wealthy but what I get from his posturing is he’s finally in a power position and milking it for all it’s worth. twilson117 an hour ago

Sinema is a Sphinx. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – There is no way back for Sinema. Dems will take her out in her next primary and Repubs want only Trump sycophants. No constituency for her anymore. AdLib an hour ago

I love Manchin’s yacht on the potomac. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad the Sphinx was interesting Sinema is anythig but that. twilson117 an hour ago

CL! What’s happening? AdLib an hour ago

I went to look at the archive, and they tossed me out! Had to re-up. choicelady an hour ago

Word Press is VERY finicky about who is allowed in. choicelady an hour ago

My previous emails to Sinema were a little crass borrowing from VEEP. She knows she’s got our balls in a vice – and she started out principled. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – it is rumored that she will NOT run in 2024 but is gathering all the money she can so she can walk away. Any sense that’s true? choicelady an hour ago

TW – Yes, both are true. Manchin is an egomaniac as well as looking out for his own interests. He is the last person, after SInema, that should be in a pivotal position of power. AdLib an hour ago

I didn’t vote for her because she was hawt – and yes, she is in person. And I think she knows it. I’ve lost so much respect for her. Khirad an hour ago

CL – If you have trouble getting onto Vox or The Planet, you need to clear your browser cache then close and reopen your browser. AdLib an hour ago

I’m away, now. thanks again and I’ll be in touch next week. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

See ya Pink! Khirad an hour ago

PPO take care twilson117 an hour ago

THANKS FOR THE SHARING PPO. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi – I didn’t actually have any problem save for being booted in the first place once I went to the Archive. Otherwise I got in fine. choicelady an hour ago

Seeya PPO! AdLib an hour ago

Love you, PPO – see you soon! choicelady an hour ago

I actually understand Manchin the aspiring Independant more given how WV voted for Trump. Arizona is more purple now. Khirad an hour ago

Glad you were here, PPO! AdLib an hour ago

Khirad she seems a bit flaky to me twilson117 an hour ago

Tw – that’s my take on Sinema, too – a flake. choicelady an hour ago

I do almost feel like writing about Kyrsten Sinema, because we’ve known her, and it’s like the attack of the lobbyist bodysnatchers. Khirad an hour ago

CL yes it seems like it’s all show for her twilson117 an hour ago

Khirad – LOL!!! I’m really unclear what she thinks she’s doing. choicelady an hour ago

I think Sinema got in, learned she didn’t LIKE it, and is now using the position to max her personal gain. Sucks! choicelady an hour ago

Yes, Senator for AZ, you have to moderate, but Mark Kelly (husband of Gabby) is fine. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – My theory is that Sinema, who is a frustrated actress/diva, saw Manchin getting all the attention and thought, “Hey, if I refuse to go along with things that most Americans want, I can get as much attention and have people begging me too! But since she has no principles behind just saying no, her dishonesty and selfish motives seem obvious. She is now despised for only caring about her own interests and ego. No way back for her now, she’s a one termer. AdLib an hour ago

Yes, but if Sinema is angling to be a lobbyist who will trust her? Khirad an hour ago

I think they should cut the salaries of all the congressmen and women along with the senators to 50k and see what happens. I bet more gets done then it does now. twilson117 an hour ago

She fucked up. I had so much hope for her. Khirad an hour ago

TW – cutting those salaries and NOT reforming what income they can generate outside is a recipe for graft. choicelady an hour ago

They vote on their own salaries sooo… Khirad an hour ago

No one can live in DC on $50K. Just can’t. choicelady an hour ago

CL Oh the graft would have to be taken care of as well. twilson117 an hour ago

CL, thank you for saying DC

Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – Bingo! Sinema will be worthless as a lobbyist, Dems are done with her and Repubs are only propping her up for the damage she can do to the Dems and Biden. Once she’s out of office, Repubs will turn their back on her and forget she ever existed. AdLib an hour ago

Khirad – they do NOT vote on their own salaries. They are banned by the Constitution. They can vote for FUTURE salaraies but not their own here and now. choicelady an hour ago

CL I know perhaps it would enable them to understand what real people have to deal with. twilson117 an hour ago

I’m wrong, but they can give up their gov’t healthcare? Khirad an hour ago

I have “new” relatives in DC. I see what it takes. It’s not Mobile or even Atlanta. choicelady an hour ago

TW – I think all the corrupt Congresspeople would only sell out more, the less they were paid. AdLib an hour ago

CL they get paid a lot of money to mainly do nothing. twilson117 an hour ago

CL, I was born and raised in Vancouver, Washington – half my life has been explaining that. Khirad an hour ago

Khirad – I would argue the better they’re compensated, the LESS graft becomes attractive. Look at the states where pay is very low for state legislators – they are horribly corrupt. TX comes to mind… choicelady an hour ago

Khirad – I love Vancouver! choicelady an hour ago

It’s not the money Congresspeople are paid, it’s how they take the money without working for it. The entire GOP accomplishes nothing to help the people while betraying their oaths of office. AdLib an hour ago

CL – you know of the Fort? Khirad an hour ago

Washington. Vancouver BC is kind of overwhel mint. And Yes, I know the Fort. choicelady an hour ago

Ad they get paid 179K and who knows what kickbacks from lobbists along with various pacs they can control I suppose it’s good work if you can get it. twilson117 an hour ago

My AZ late was COUVE Khirad an hour ago

The first Vancouver… anyway … my point proven Khirad 44 minutes ago

TW – If we don’t reform the outside money, we HAVE to keep the salaries high. choicelady 44 minutes ago

CL – I agree, paying Congresspeople a good amount is a better incentive against taking payoffs then their needing to take money under the table. AdLib 44 minutes ago

https://jhb.house.gov Khirad 43 minutes ago

Joe Biden left the Senate a modest income man. Yes, it’s a choice. But we should never penny pinch on the people who make our laws. choicelady 43 minutes ago

CL no arguement from on that. But the SC squashed that. I will admit, I’m at a loss on how to best fix that problem. twilson117 43 minutes ago

CL – Remember, the voting rights bill had public campaign financing and curbing of dark money in it. But Manchin killed that. AdLib 43 minutes ago

She’s been a Republican I grudgingly respect. The 3rd WA is a very bellwether district, Khirad 42 minutes ago

Tw – SCOTUS never squashed the issues that matter – one can be barred from buying/selling stock and taking graft. That was NOT part of Citizens United. It can fit squarely in the existing rules on enrichment. choicelady 42 minutes ago

I’m gonna head out, I have ideas… Love you all. Khirad 42 minutes ago

BYE K. MurphTheSurf3 42 minutes ago

Ad – that is why we need MORE DEMS so we can bypass the wobbly ones. choicelady 41 minutes ago

So do we believe that the race for VA Gov is neck and neck? A Trumper is tied in VA with McCauliffe? AdLib 41 minutes ago

G’night Khirad! choicelady 41 minutes ago

CL should the ALEC organzation be targeted? After all they are the ones who come up with this model legislation that seems to find it’s way into state and federal government. twilson117 41 minutes ago

CL I agree with the stock trading aspect. twilson117 41 minutes ago

TW – All the concern about Eastman missed the point that ALEC backed the plan and promoted it. So yes, we need to look seriously at how we control such groups. choicelady 40 minutes ago

Bye Khirad twilson117 40 minutes ago

ALEC promoting the Eastman plan without mentioning Eastman. choicelady 40 minutes ago

CL – That is my big hope, if Dems could add 2 solid Dem Senators and keep the House in 2022, huge things could get done. Expanding the SCOTUS, adding PR and DC to the union, passing all the things that Manchin and Sinema are drowning out, etc. AdLib 40 minutes ago

https://documented.net/2020/10/newly-surfaced-recording-reveals-alec-and-gop-election-attorneys-working-with-state-legislators-to-question-validity-of-election/ choicelady 40 minutes ago

CL – I would be so happy if the DoJ can connect the dots between the insurrection and ALEC. Put them all in prison. AdLib 39 minutes ago

Ad – Very true. I do think we have to quash the filibuster if only by demand it be HARD TO DO. choicelady 39 minutes ago

That’s a great link, CL. AdLib 39 minutes ago

Well, no one in ALEC is going to prison for embracing the Eastman plan unless they are tied directly to ACTS of insurrection or sedition. choicelady 38 minutes ago

CL – I think there is no good argument to allow a filibuster on voting rights. Why should a majority ever be able to deny voting rights to the majority? Never. AdLib 38 minutes ago

The video mentions Ray Haynes. He was a Senator then Assembly Member from Riverside CA. He is to the right of Attila the Hun. Former head of ALEC. He’s cited in this video. choicelady 37 minutes ago

CL I have to admit I wouldn’t know about ALEC if it wasn’t Maddow when she brought it up several years back. twilson117 37 minutes ago

CL – I think we may find financing of the insurrection may connect to ALEC. AdLib 37 minutes ago

TW – the “shadow government’ is far more worrisome than dome phantom “deep state’. choicelady 37 minutes ago

CL can they sing? I saw the Phatom of the Opera at least he could sing.

twilson117 36 minutes ago

Ad – I would NOT be remotely surprised. The group in the video being addressed is Center for National Policy, the RELIGIOUS RIGHT group. ALEC and CNP dovetail here, and there are bound to be people who were actively engaged Jan 6. choicelady 36 minutes ago

Falling asleep. I have enjoyed “listening in.” MurphTheSurf3 35 minutes ago

How do we stop this disintegration of our democracy without going forcefully against the wealthy behind ALEC, Trump, etc? AdLib 35 minutes ago

TW – it is my profound believe they cannot carry a tune. choicelady 35 minutes ago

Feel better Murph! AdLib 35 minutes ago

Take care Murph – let us know what you need. We love you, too. choicelady 35 minutes ago

Thanks for the good wishes. MurphTheSurf3 35 minutes ago

CL can we stop calling them the religious right there is nothing religious about them twilson117 34 minutes ago

Seeya Murph twilson117 34 minutes ago

CL – What do you think about Schiff saying that Garland doesn’t want tough sentances on insurrectionists because he thinks it would harden their positions. AdLib 34 minutes ago

TW – my term for them is actually “Dominionists”. I totally agree they are not Christian, not religious, not spiritual only greedy power mongers. choicelady 34 minutes ago

Schiff over-reacted. Garland most LIKELY said that he doesn’t want to do this YET. choicelady 33 minutes ago

CL for me that’s even worse. To use religion for justification is beyond horrid. twilson117 33 minutes ago

TW – Well said! All the RW evangelists want out of religion is power over the blindly faithful and tax-free status. AdLib 33 minutes ago

We think we have all the evidence we need, but we seriously do not. Garland has said, bluntly, ANYONE for whom evidence is clear will be indicted. I think Schiff wants it fast. Garland wants it RIGHT. choicelady 32 minutes ago

TW – if you’re up for the long slog, do read Jeff Sharlet’s “The Family” that shows the origins and actions of the “C Street” zealots. It’s also a 5 part series on Netflix. Or was. choicelady 31 minutes ago

CL didn’t Maddow do several shows on them? twilson117 31 minutes ago

CL – But Schiff said specifically that Garland’s argument wasn’t that it was too soon, it’s that he thinks they would become more hardened insurgents. I think this is so wrong headed, they are cowards at heart and what will stop this artificial movement is the fear of imprisonment for a very long time. If you told these nutters that they’d only have to do a few months for trying to overthrow our democracy, they’ll do it again. AdLib 30 minutes ago

Tw – the Family has its OWN bible. They aren’t remotely Christian. I was a subject expert at a UN convening on their power in NYC. We all agreed that they don’t actually believe ANYTHING other than power and money – and that it’s all in their hands. choicelady 30 minutes ago

TW – she interviewed Jeff yes. That was when Sanford revealed he had NOT been on the Appalachian Trail but diddling his mistress in Argentina. And HE mentioned them. Maddow got Jeff to talk about it. They are horrid. I know some of them personally – and they are despicable.,] choicelady 29 minutes ago

CL – I’m all for Garland doing it right and not rushing it. But his philosophy is very “ivory tower”. The way you stop an insurrection is by fighting it toughly, not being gentle with them in hopes, in the words of Susan Collins, that they “learned their lesson”. AdLib 28 minutes ago

CL I really do not like people like that. I have a simple question for them Why does God need a religion? twilson117 28 minutes ago

Schiff is wrong. He got it wrong. I don’t think Garland is weak on this at ALL. choicelady 28 minutes ago

CL – What did Schiff get wrong? He quoted Garland and described their conversation. AdLib 27 minutes ago

tw – it goes to the preservation of power. If you compare organized religions w indigenous people’s faith, there could not be a greater demarcation. I have often thought the cruelty of missionaries was not because they got it wrong but because they were RIGHT, and they made a lie of religion. choicelady 27 minutes ago

It’s really awful that people throughout history exploit religion for the most evil motivations while real people of faith see their religions demeaned by such faithless beasts. AdLib 26 minutes ago

CL I agree with you on that. twilson117 26 minutes ago

Ad – Schiff wants it NOW. He heard what he thought he heard. Garland has made NO bones about Trump’s corruption that he has said elsewhere he is open to pursuing. I simply think Schiff is growing impatient and heard what he wanted to hear. choicelady 25 minutes ago

Ad it’s always been that way. Well before it became organized. Just read any history book and you will see religion was in the forefront of everything rulers did. twilson117 24 minutes ago

CL – Garland even addressed that when he appeared in Congress and he himself was trying to explain his support for lighter sentences. AdLib 24 minutes ago

Look – I love Ted Lieu and Adam Schiff, but they have often popped off out of turn and been wrong. They are angry and impatient. Let’s not assume they and only they understand everything. choicelady 24 minutes ago

Ad – lighter sentences for WHOM? choicelady 23 minutes ago

TW – religion is often the excuse made for naked power. Rulers seriously don’t care who does what so long as THEY have the power. choicelady 23 minutes ago

Lighter sentences for 1/6 insurrectionists. AdLib 22 minutes ago

CL I agree. twilson117 22 minutes ago

CL – “According to an analysis by BuzzFeed’s Zoe Tillman, the “vast majority of guilty pleas — 80 out of 100 — have involved defendants charged solely with misdemeanor crimes from the start,” such as disorderly conduct or “parading, demonstrating, or picketing” in the Capitol, which generally carry maximum terms of six months in prison. Five people were initially “charged with a felony but pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor.” AdLib 21 minutes ago

He is doing exactly what is mandated. The people being sentenced now did not commit acts of violence. Evidence shows that. That’s why he is trying them first and requiring them to roll over on the bigger fish. They have been. It’s wise not to charge people where evidence doesn’t uphold the charge. choicelady 21 minutes ago

And…”Second, prosecutors appear to be accepting pleas even when the defendants are feigning acceptance of responsibility. This is another major prosecutorial no-no, since defendants get a break under the sentencing guidelines for acceptance of responsibility, and they are not supposed to be getting that break if they are not sincere. One judge recently observed that “many of the defendants pleading guilty do not truly accept responsibility” but are instead “trying to get this out of the way as quickly as possible, stating whatever they have to say … but not changing their attitude.” AdLib 20 minutes ago

The article I’m quoting from is here: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/21/justice-department-going-easy-on-january-6-defendants-516553 AdLib 19 minutes ago

You aren’t citing Garland but the overall take on the part of the judges who are FREE to impose stronger sentences. It’s a complicated issue. choicelady 19 minutes ago

Politico is NOT our friend, BTW. choicelady 19 minutes ago

Ad I have to ask how are you able to access articles so quickly. twilson117 18 minutes ago

Nope, I know for a fact that prosecutors are NOT charging parties for more serious crimes, I have read a number of articles giving the specifics. AdLib 18 minutes ago

Federal judges making harsher sentences than the US attorneys ask for is wise – keeps the heat off the DOJ and gets the job done. choicelady 18 minutes ago

Ad – they aren’t charging what they cannot prove. choicelady 18 minutes ago

TW – I have a lot of practice search articles based on unique keywords. AdLib 17 minutes ago

CL – That’s just not the case. They specifically overlooked a felony on one defendant that they had a plea deal with on a misdemeanor and my understanding is that this isn’t unusual. AdLib 17 minutes ago

They haven’t even moved into the ranks of the truly vile. And a lot of the plea bargains are based on “singing” to reveal who sent you, who paid for you, who directed you” so they can build the cases up the line. This is a “RICO” style plan. They WANT the top guys – including Trump. choicelady 17 minutes ago

CL let me ask you this. The fact these peple are being charged with what seems federal crimes even misdomeors it still has an impact on their work record right? twilson117 16 minutes ago

Ad oh. twilson117 16 minutes ago

I have worked a 12 years federal case against the anti abortion zealots. Yes, they diminish some charges BUT for only a trade on info. I was a subject expert on this, and this was told to me as a bargaining chip they often use. Nobody is walking without giving up SOMETHING for use later. choicelady 15 minutes ago

Ad but do you have another window open for the search twilson117 15 minutes ago

A Judge Questioned If Capitol Rioters Are Getting Off Too Easy For “Terrorizing Members Of Congress” – Chief Judge Beryl Howell questioned whether allowing defendants to plead guilty to low-level offenses would deter people from storming the Capitol again. AdLib 15 minutes ago

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/capitol-riot-jan-6-defendants-plea-deals-too-lenient AdLib 15 minutes ago

TW – Yep, I open a tab and use that for the searches. AdLib 14 minutes ago

Judges can impose higher penalties. They aren’t bound by the US Atty’s recommendations. choicelady 14 minutes ago

Ad Okay I got it now. twilson117 14 minutes ago

CL – The point here though is that a seasoned judge is concerned that DoJ is undercharging these rioters. AdLib 14 minutes ago

This is VERY complicated. After years of thinking we were settling for too low a bar, i began to see that the pattern and practice of the US federal courts is to look at the larger picture, not the immediate one. \ choicelady 13 minutes ago

This ALWAYS happens, Ad. The judge is free to disagree. The DOJ then doesn’t become the target, the sentencing judge over rules them. choicelady 13 minutes ago

Yes but judges can only apply sentences for the charges that prosecutors choose to bring. When they ignore felonies and plea bargain on misdemeanors, the judge can’t sentence based on a felony that was never prosecuted. AdLib 12 minutes ago

Untrue. The LAW gives the judge leeway. And they have used it several times in this set of sentences. choicelady 12 minutes ago

No one has had a trial. As a bench issues, the judge can throw the book at the defendant. If we have jury trials, that gets more serious. But this I know – NO ONE charged w a misdemeanor has not gotten it without a trade. MAJOR trade. That is how it’s done. choicelady 11 minutes ago

CL for me the question focuses around this: It’s been close to 10 months since the insurrection, some have gotten light sentences, will we see more server sentencing next year. By that I mean people going to jail for more the 5 months? twilson117 11 minutes ago

TW – yes, they have not gotten to the higher ups. They are bulding this like a RICO case, and there are hundreds facing far more serious charges. Those may be jury trials, and it will be enormously complicated. But the Big Guns are going to face major felonies. choicelady 9 minutes ago

CL – But you would agree that on a misdemeanor plea deal, a judge doesn’t sentence based on a felony that was never charged. AdLib 9 minutes ago

Yes – but don’t think a misdemeanor is a light sentence. It’s not. choicelady 9 minutes ago

USAttorneys charge what they think they can prove. Lots of these people actually have NO evidence against them that’s felony worthy. I’m not saying they didn’t do stuff – but the evidence (videos etc.) do not exist. choicelady 8 minutes ago

CL – The only trade that the guilty have made in plea deals is to do a little jail time. Most have been sentenced to less than 3 months, some only got a month or so. AdLib 7 minutes ago

The ones getting the book thrown at them by judges aren’t doing it based on evidence FROM 1/6 but from social media that shows they are unrepentant and dangersou. choicelady 7 minutes ago

Ad – You are WRONG. The trade is to squeal on others. The ones w these light sentences CANNOT BE PROVEN to have committed a felony. choicelady 6 minutes ago

CL I have a recommendation for sentencing for all the big guns and those folks behind this. It will require the US to make a deal with Brazil in order to have all those convicted to be sent to Snake Island. If they can make it off the island then they get to walk. twilson117 6 minutes ago

TW – works for me! choicelady 5 minutes ago

Another article from Buzzfeed: “Nearly every Jan. 6 defendant, regardless of whether they’re also accused of more serious criminal activity, faces the same four baseline charges: two class-B misdemeanor counts for demonstrating in the Capitol and disorderly conduct, and two class-A misdemeanor counts for being in a restricted building and disruptive activity. The class-B crimes have maximum sentences of six months in prison while the class-A crimes carry up to a year. Most of the 100 plea deals feature a misdemeanor, not a felony. One judge has questioned the decision by prosecutors to let most rioters plead guilty to a class-B crime, since in those cases judges don’t have the authority to order longer-term court supervision.” AdLib 5 minutes ago

So you see, judges can’t extend longer-term court supervision on class-B crimes. AdLib 4 minutes ago

Yes. So prove there is evidence of a felony, we’ll talk. That’s the problem with mass arrests. Where is the specific EVIDENCE they broke in, destroyed property, threatened lives? WHERE IS IT? The FBI have scoured videos and can’t find it for all these lower level charged people. choicelady 4 minutes ago

Here is where they should go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa1Tu6BRFxU

twilson117 3 minutes ago

Judges can extend the max for that crime. choicelady 3 minutes ago

TW- that works! choicelady 3 minutes ago

Ok folks I need to bounce see you all next week. twilson117 3 minutes ago

Ok – think I will, too. Good night, AD – hope to see you next week if we haven’t floated away! choicelady 2 minutes ago

mnight TW- choicelady 2 minutes ago

Well TW, we close down the Vox bar again! AdLib a minute ago

Night TW! AdLib in a few seconds

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