A sentiment that appeared frequently in social media over the past several days was in the vein of “the dam is breaking”/”this time it’s different”. Democrats in Congress who have previously refrained from supporting an official impeachment inquiry have been publicly announcing that they now are on board and support has been snowballing.
This has led to a Washington Post story this afternoon that Speaker Nancy Pelosi will announce today, the start of a formal impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump.
All of this was in response to the latest and heinous behavior by Donald Trump to muscle President Zelensky of Ukraine into investigating and smearing potential 2020 opponent, Joe Biden.
This wasn’t the straw that broke the camel’s back, it was a two ton girder of betrayal and abuse of power that squashed the camel flat. It was so blatant and shocking that Democrats in Congress…but even more importantly, The American people, were so outraged that Trump’s continued freedom to destroy our democracy unfettered and the status quo that Speaker Nancy Pelosi has tried to sustain to avoid impeachment, were no longer acceptable.
The outrage across the nation was palpable this weekend. Pelosi’s social media accounts were swamped with both polite and furious comments insisting that she needs to impeach now (and commenters were often disrespecting whatever comment of condemnation Pelosi was posting as now being meaningless and toothless).
Those who were still posting about how they trust in Pelosi to have a secret long term plan to impeach Trump and that everyone needs to wait until the majority of Americans are onboard with impeachment were overwhelmed by Democrats who disputed that plan claim as unprovable and a useless exercise in blind faith.
Just as with the aftermath of the El Paso and Dayton shootings, the floodgates of “Do Something!” opened wide and a torrent of public sentiment for action inundated congressional Democrats (and Pelosi).
There are three reasons why an actual impeachment inquiry is going to begin:
- Donald Trump abused his power (again) to extort Ukraine to slime Joe Biden.
- A brave whistle-blower put himself/herself at risk to expose this scheme.
- The American public stood up to demand that Trump be stopped through impeachment and Democrats in Congress listened to the people and Speaker Pelosi listened to them.
Despite the convoluted logic of a few, this is not what Donald Trump wanted or expected. He thought he’d get away with this as he did with colluding with Russia and obstructing justice. And he was almost right.
Trump is a compulsive bully with no morals or self-restraint. He has always escaped serious consequences for his terrible actions, especially as president and he knows that very well. After escaping unimpeached from the Mueller Report, he felt untouchable. Trump is losing right now in polls, is less likely to win re-election but he knows he needs to win or he’ll be indicted for his many crimes. Trump will do whatever it takes to win, he has no limits. So he decided to try and repeat his successful and dishonest “Hillary’s Emails!” sliming ploy against Biden and again enlisting the help of a foreign country, extorting Ukraine to do his dirty work for him.
Despite the belief of some Democrats in her having some three-dimensional chess plan to impeach Trump, this is also not what Pelosi wanted or expected. She made it absolutely clear that she did not support impeachment in any case aside from a fantasy scenario where a majority of the public and most Republicans in the Senate would have somehow supported impeachment first, before an impeachment inquiry that would be needed to convince them, had started.
It was a not-so-subtle way of saying that she wouldn’t allow impeachment, using an impossible condition to prevent it. Pelosi had planned on continuing her policy of letting pro-impeachment Dems try to hold ineffective, Trump-sabotaged hearings while protecting Red district Dems from ever having to support or vote on impeachment.
Then the whistle-blower’s complaint happened and kicked over both Trump’s and Pelosi’s game board. Now there was an egregious offense in front of the public, one that profoundly threatens our democracy and very importantly, was simple and easy for the public to recognize. This was not another complex Mueller Report, this was not just another casual violation of checks and balances, it was a simple but major betrayal of America.
Trump and his cronies are now trying to do what they have always done to sabotage consequences for his unlawful and unconstitutional actions.
First, deny everything and attack those making accusations.
Second, roll out admissions then denials of admissions.
Third, try to confuse and turn off the public by flooding the zone with conflicting descriptions of what did or didn’t happen.
Fourth, throw out an “official” explanation of what happened that says nothing wrong happened…and even if it did, it wasn’t illegal or impeachable.
And lastly, playing the victim card and projecting his own failings onto Democrats, portraying them as hateful, partisan and not helping the people on issues that matter.
Trump tweeted this morning that he will be releasing the full, unredacted transcript of his conversation with President Zalensky. No doubt it will be preceded by a summary from AG William Barr saying it proves there is no collusion or obstruction. While they may think this could work to undermine impeachment, the credibility of Trump and his cronies with the American public couldn’t be lower. At this point, who but Trump’s cultist followers would fully believe anything he or his cronies released?
And the bigger issue here is not this one particular conversation but the whistle-blower’s full complaint. The complaint is said to describe multiple instances that caused great and urgent concern for national security…and Trump is illegally blocking its release to Congress. So this “clever” ploy will change nothing.
Impeachment may not result in getting Trump removed from the White House but it should be a powerful shot across the bow for Trump and scare him enough to pull back from doing absolutely anything he wants to do.
It will also expedite court decisions in cases where Trump is stonewalling, to compel testimony and evidence from Trump and his gang. And most importantly, it will lead to televised hearings as in Watergate, which, by publicizing the criminal acts of Nixon in detail, turned public opinion and Republican politicians against him enough for them to support convicting and removing him.
And a small satisfaction will be Trump’s anger at knowing that he will go down in history as a president who was impeached (and hopefully removed or forced to resign). And the cherry on top of that sundae is that he knows that his hated predecessor, President Obama, won’t have that same failure of character pinned on him in history books forever. And also, it may make Trump getting a Nobel Prize for Hubris less likely too.
While the impeachment bandwagon is something Pelosi had no choice but to join so as not to suffer the indignation of the party moving on it without her, the dissatisfaction with her previous blocking of impeachment should be put aside for good. It serves no purpose to sustain division in the Democratic Party because of a disagreement that doesn’t matter anymore.
Democrats have big things to do now, we’re all on the same side moving forward and we’ll need to just work together to hold Trump accountable through the impeachment process. And hopefully, remove him before he destroys any more of our country and democracy.
When they finally drag Trump kicking & screaming out of the White House, I’m afraid the stench of stale french fries will linger for quite some time. And then we’ll have the rest of Trump’s swamp denizens to deal with, starting with the VP. This is so much worse than the mess Dubya left behind.
Dubya: The Great Recession, two unnecessary wars, 9/11 (yes it was his fault because he wasn’t paying attention).
Trump: the near destruction of the USA from within, by eradicating the systems that make us strong– Democracy, the Vote, freedom from outside influence, the GOP populated by a gang of crooked feckless idiot politicians due to a hackable voting system that gives the GOP way too much of an advantage.
I’ll say it once more: END THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE. It only made sense when the country was being settled & we were encouraging people to move out West. Now it only serves to install GOP presidents against the will of the voters.
The Dem who beats Trump in 2020 will indeed have a lot to fix when they start, whoever it ends up to be should go big with a bill covering the widespread repairs, like an “American Renewal Act of 2021” that funds the personnel and expenses for repairing our government, infrastructure, voting security and protections, health care, etc. An omnibus bill that offers hope and quick action. And despite all that’s happened, the door should be left open for Repubs to try and rehabilitate themselves and join in after the Trump Spell has been broken. And if they refuse, hopefully we’ll have a Dem Congress to do it anyway.
As for the Electoral College, that’s not going to be so easy to get rid of, too many Repub states are the small ones with outsized power, in elections and The Senate. Changing the Constitution with them opposing it is unlikely.
However, if we can pass a new Voting Rights Act that prevents Repubs from rigging elections with Voter ID, voter suppression and election machine monkey business, they can lose their advantage for at least a decade and hopefully far longer than that. Then maybe we can get rid of the Electoral College with more Dems in charge of currently red states.
Please excuse the numerous Twitter posts, this is not what I typically do but Trump is having a real mental breakdown tonight and spewing crazed tweets and threats, one after another.
In this latest episode of “American Horror Story”, Trump cracks up and after threatening whistleblowers and the chairman of the House Intelligence committee, he threatens 327 million Americans that if he’s impeached, he’ll bring about a Civil War to destroy America.
He is so intensely stupid and desperate, he not only provided the evidence to assure his impeachment but he is forcing Senate Republicans to either support a raving lunatic or vote to remove him. He’s taking away any legit excuse for leaving him in office.
Yep. He already put a mob boss hit on the whistleblower and whoever talked to him/her. Now he demands to meet his “accuser”.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-demands-to-meet-whistleblower-warns-of-big-consequences/ar-AAI1Qgy?ocid=spartandhp
First, the stable genius and his advisors are still trying to push the debunked Biden story, still trying to investigate Hillary Clinton’s emails, and promoting that the whistleblower illegally blew the whistle and the people the whistleblower talked to, leaked what a corrupt president did, to an intelligence agent (not the press). I suppose the stable genius doesn’t really understand what a leak actually is. Hey stable genius, when someone reports a crime to the authorities, that is not a leak. Dumbass!!!
And btw, trump’s own call notes that he approved the release of, corroborates the “third party information” in the whistleblower’s report. So it could be fourth party, fifth party of one hundred party information. The thing is, according to trump, the information givene by the whistleblower is true.
It seems to me that part of the Trump strategy on this is to act as if he never provided the notes of the conversation between him and Zelinsky, as if that evidence doesn’t even exist. They keep trying this propaganda about 2nd and 3rd hand info when the 1st hand info Trump provided perfecttly matches the whistleblower’s allegations.
They’re trying to shut a non-existent door after the horse has not only gotten out but is already in the next county. It will help to rile up his cultists but they are a smaller and smaller minority and this won’t help build support from indies that he needs to have majority support against impeachment or for winning re-election.
Okay…this is some next level insanity and dictatorship. One one hand, it is exciting because it proves Trump knows he’ll be impeached and his House of Evil is coming crashing down on him…on the other hand, it is genuinely scary to see that he wants to act like Putin and jail or kill whoever he sees as his enemy.
In honor of Trump’s impeachment, here’s an encore presentation of a video I posted a while back, when we thought Trump would be impeached earlier on. Enjoy!
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Well said Ad Lib.
Oh yeah – Trump thought he’d get away with this one like he has so much else. This time though, we’re going to get him! It will be ugly, but necessary.
Thanks Opie Cat!
I was worried Trump was getting away with everything including corrupting our democracy, elections and government (as he and Steve Bannon had planned) but this has been like the hero coming to the rescue at the last minute (the whistleblower and those officials working with him are indeed heroes that deserve the place in history that will be awarded to them).
I just wish I could go back in the past just to send myself an email at least a few months ago, “Don’t worry, Trump’s is definitely going to be impeached very soon.” Would have saved me a fortune in antacids and Ambien.
218 VOTES IN THE HOUSE FOR IMPEACHMENT!!!
I don’t find it “convoluted logic” to reason from what what I know that the timing is perfect for Trump. Congress is starting a fight that they can’t finish – that they cannot win; and everyone, just everyone, is foaming at the mouth to see the Democratic Party, “charge down the guns,” and lose.
Why was this a “whistle-blower’s complaint” in the first place? The complainant had no reason to believe that he could not just report whatever he knew; his agency-level chiefs were not hostile to him. And, obviously there was no reason for haste; there hasn’t been any.
This is “Op-Ed2!” Trump is best served by impeachment proceedings that start now, and are begun with a minority. Think about it. So Trump made it happen now. (And, at least at first, it seems, fooled Nancy Pelosi.)
There’s another aspect to this: When the whistle-blower resorted to whistle blowing, he accused many co-workers. Whistle-blower Laws should be a last resort. Trump would never even think about how he might be impugning the reputations of friends. Neither would he be capable of comprehending that it’s obvious that he is using (and breaking) whistle-blower laws to his advantage.
And, one bigly big thing: no one has actually stated that the reason for the whistle-blower complaint was the payments. We can assume that the Ukrainian President, of all people, has a sense of humor. He would not be much of a negotiator if he took Trump’s first threat as his final offer.
And, we aren’t much of a people, us “Americans,” if we let the rabbit pass right under our noses, because we are intellectual weaklings and moral cowards.
Y’all be cool. Goodbye! I am truly disgusted with this country, in every conceivable way.
Most of us are disgusted with trump and republicans. However, justice will be served eventually.
Steppenwolf, it’s not a strong argument to blindly attack a whistleblower complaint when you have no direct information about it.
There’s a big difference between what you don’t like and what’s true. The whistleblower complaint was confirmed as a national security concern and urgent by the IC IG who was appointed by Trump.
And you don’t seem to understand what a whistleblower complaint is in the first place. It is made when someone in the government has knowledge of a severe wrong but can be fired or harassed by his superiors because it involves them.
IOW, had he taken your advice, Trump could have and probably would have fired him and buried his complaint immediately.
You’ve made a lot of statements of fact that aren’t facts. How do you know there was no reason for haste? You have no information about the report.
And Dems just reached 218 votes so you are wrong again about stating they don’t have a majority to pass impeachment in The House.
Your assumptions also don’t make sense to me either, that impeachment was perfect timing for Trump? Huh? And everyone who wants to stop Trump’s damaging our democracy are ‘foaming at the mouth” yet you have not one word of criticism for Trump who appeared to be extorting Ukraine to attack his political rival?
You’re welcome to your opinion but it’s not based on the facts or lack thereof.
I’ve just read your excellent article and your response to the
first comment.
As you said all there is to be said about it, all I can say is “Now
I think I really have heard everything!”
Thanks so much, NoManIsAnIsland!
Heh! So much more to be said after today though! Like this:
Public support for Dem impeachment inquiry now wins a plurality, 49%-46%.
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/764724904/npr-pbs-newshour-marist-poll-americans-split-on-house-impeachment-inquiry?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
And it is only growing in support!
You’re so welcome, AdLib! As more and more details of trump’s treason in connection with his attempted extortion of President Zelenskiy of Ukraine — and the White House’s Nixon-like efforts to cover it up become widely known — the number in favor of impeachment will only grow, and grow, and grow….
When the Watergate impeachment hearings began, only 19% of Americans supported them.
As this one against Trump has began this week, already 49% support it. And it’s just started!
I agree, I think we’ll see a clear majority supporting it by next week…if not sooner.
Trump is not escaping this without being impeached and if he’s not removed, he will be so damaged in 2020, Repubs could lose in the biggest landslide for Dems in our lifetiime.
Right. And I can already hear the gears grinding in what Republican “leaders”
have instead of actual brains.
Now that trump’s jig is finally up, these Republicans must be desperate to try to get him to resign before the House impeaches him. Trump won’t leave
willingly, and the Republicans will try to persuade him to go — guess how? Well
by hook or crook, of course.
Trump will soon have more to fear from
the GOP hoods who brung him to the party than from any Democrat.
I don’t know, it’s hard for me to imagine that Senate Repubs would suddenly grow spines and get tough with Trump.
Another scenario could be that they just continue to act cowardly and duck everything until the impeachment vote then they’ll have to decide if they can risk being dragged down with Trump or cutting loose to save themselves.
I don’t think there is any other leader than Trump in the GOP so it’s hard to imagine McConnell or anyone else actively pushing him to resign…out of fear he won’t resign or be removed and then will turn on them to destroy them.
I see the Repubs as more feckless, knowing this is a head-on collision coming their way but too scared to get out of the way.
Then again, if things continue looking terrible for Trump’s prospects, they may let their greed for power and re-election convince them that they have to come together and push him out.
Either way, the GOP is continuing to be badly damaged and will be even more since Trump is the symbol of their party and their prospects in 2020 are bleaker each day.
Ooops — I see what I just did and how
it happened. I wrote “these Republicans
must be desperate to try to get him to
resign before the House impeaches him.”
In retrospect, I would simply have added “…but having less of a spine than a
spinless invertebrate like a jellyfish, they
won’t dare to cross him to suggest he
resign before the deluge.”
My whole purpose was to suggest trump
has more to fear from the Republicans
who helped him to power than he does
from Democrats — which is, of course,
not a bridge but a conceit too far!
As trump comes to his richly earned
downfall, the scenario you describe
will play out to greater or lesser degrees.
And rather than either trump or the degenerate party that sponsored him
coming out smelling like roses, I think
both will have the stench of the miasmic
swamp they created together in the
District of Columbia.
Just the idea of Trump being in fear and despair is enough tonight to make me smile.
Earlier in the week he was whining about not being nominated for a Nobel prize, trying to cover his insecurity so transparently.
And instead of the acclaim he constantly needs, instead of being able to go down in history as one of our greatest presidents and instead of besting President Obama as he maniacally needs to do, he’s tossing and turning in bed tonight, whimpering as he thinks about how he will go down in history as one of the rare impeached presidents and not knowing if he will also be the first and only president removed from office.
The Repubs are backing away from him. Even Fox News is struggling over staying with Trump or not.
This can only get worse for Trump and what is probably tearing him up the most, as someone whose whole con job and story is about being a winner, is that he will be remembered and have to live out his life as a loser. A very pathetic and humiliated loser.
We owe that whistleblower and the officials who worked with him, the gratitude of a nation!
If trump were a private citizen ranting and spewing world salad as he does but not
acting out his psychotic schemes and urges and thus doing no harm to others, we’d have empathy for him and try to get him help – even though most of those with his disorder are beyond hope of any improvement, much less cure. They have no insight into their own minds or behavior, and their only interest in life is satisfying the wild and roiling impulses of their ids — as they have no egos or superegos to even moderate their mad urges.
Add to this that trump’s intellectual development stopped cold by the time he was five years old, so what we have sitting in the Oval Office is
a raving mad, intellectually stunted five year old in the body of a degenerating 73 year old man.
But trump’s not a private citizen, and in a very short time he’s turned the U.S. and the rest of the world upside down.
While we still pity him and realize he’s clinically and legally insane and not responsible for his actions, due to the incalculable damage he’s already done, we don’t have to feel bad about calling out his pathological behavior any more than we did about his idol Adolf Hitler and do about his current BFF, Vladimir Putin, and the slew of today’s other dictators who trump admires.
One needn’t be a mental health professional to have insight into trump’s catastrophically deranged mind, and you are proof of that.
I know most people – including reporters and even respected commentators – have mistaken trump’s bluster and boasts for
arrogance and a huge ego, when in reality he’s exceptionally timid and doesn’t have even a trace of an ego. In the simplest of terms,
trump is overcompensating greatly for character and personality traits he lacks completely.
Even if trump somehow escapes any legal consequences of his literal multitudes of crimes beyond impeachment by the House (without conviction in the Senate and removal from office), from now on his life will be even MORE tormented than it has been since his childhood. If we were somehow able to read what passes for trump’s mind now, we couldn’t have a better account than what you posted here.
Humpty trumpty is finally heading for his great fall; and while he won’t assume any responsibility for his treason or his other crimes and insist it’s others’ faults, we know it won’t make him feel “great” again. He’s never felt good in his life and has no idea of what it would be like.
In a rational and sane country, trump’s mental illness would – or should – have precluded him from running for any office. Far greater than his personal tragedy is the national tragedy that against all logic and reason let him run for president in the first place. If the constitutional requirements for eligibility for president aren’t changed, someday another trump may arise and cause even more havoc to our life and liberty. And as Americans seem to have a singular ability to ignore the lessons of history, we can almost count on it happening….
But to end this on a more positive note, we will forever be in the debt
of the courageous whistleblower
and those who tipped him or her
off. Their actions have given a
vitally needed boost to trump’s
coming impeachment.
I don’ think the RW Senators will suddenly grow spines. If they DO by some miracle go along with impeachment, it will be to save themselves.
Word is that Trump might take down Pence with him. How I’d love to see that
I do agree that whatever Repubs in The Senate decide to do, it will be driven by fear, not spines.
I can imagine fear of Trump turning on them and losing power, keeping them from voting to convict him.
I can also imagine that if the impeachment process causes polls for Repubs to crater, as I think it will, they could be driven by fear of losing re-e,ection because they’re tied to Trump, as reason to vote to convict and remove him.
The first proposition seems the likeliest but the second one is possible.
That would be a dream come true. To get rid of trump AND Pence. However, that puts Pelosi in line for POTUS, and although she is a stellar legislator, I don’t think she has what it takes to be POTUS. If it is only for a few months though, that wouldn’t be too bad.
Pelosi is tired; however, I think she has what it takes. A person can dream anyway. 😉
It would be for months, not even a year, she could do it just fine but I think it’s better not to be in the middle of the resulting turmoil for her and the Dems.
The best case scenario would really be removing Trump then Pence being in the middle of madness as the 2020 election approaches without a strong Repub candidate and a country that wants sanity and normalcy back by voting Dem.
Not much can get done in an election year anyway, let Pence and the GOP take the hit for that as we mop the floor with them in 2020.
I saw a few Hillary fanatics on Twitter all whipped up about a ridiculous plan where Trump and Pence are impeached, Pelosi becomes President, appoints Hillary as VP then resigns as president to make Hillary president who then appoints Pelosi back as Speaker.
And I thought Trumpers cornered the market on nutty, fantasy world theories.
The odds are, IMO, that Congress would never try to impeach twice. Trump will be impeached, probably not removed but it’s possible and if he is, Pence will serve out Trump’s term as the GOP frags each other without a consensus candidate for 2020.
No one likes Pence anyway except the religious extremists. Trump’s base is his, not Pence’s and having the stank of Trump on him will only make him deader in the water.
My question is what shape will the inquiry take…..I have yet to see anything definitive.
There is no template.
What I have heard so far is that the existing investigations will continue as is but they will now have the stronger arguments in courts to ask for expedited decisions and be more entitled to documents and testimony because they are official and constitutionally empowered investigations.
That is what I am picking up as well. I hope that they can make headway in the courts…I find their reluctance to move expeditiously very troubling. I doubt that Trump, the AG, or the GOP as a whole will be impressed by an “official and constitutionally empowered investigation.” There is very little in the constitution about how an impeachment and trial are to be structured and run. In fact the three examples in our history are each unique. There is no set pattern. And here is what really bothers me. The Dems get their articles of impeachment and McConnell refuses to take them up. He would do it. Just watch.
I think the proof is in the pudding, Trump is already backing down to Congress for the first time since he took office, promising to provide the notes from the Ukrainian call and the testimony and complaint from the whistle-blower. Trump is finally worried and that’s proof that his fear of impeachment flips that bully into a coward.
As for the concern about impeachment, it helps to consider the process. There will be televised hearings now with witnesses that Trump won’t be able to block and evidence he won’t be able to hide. After months of hammering home the specifics of the crimes Trump has committed (and his tax returns will also have to be provided to an official impeachment inquiry), Trump will be bloodied and his guilt will be obvious.
The whole reason McConnell allowed that precedent-breaking unanimous consent vote to take place in The Senate was that the fear of protecting Trump’s criminal behavior was powerful for them. The same will be the case when an impeachment vote on a proven criminal president comes to McConnell.
We just had a preview of what will happen and McConnell is a coward, he won’t sacrifice his re-election for Trump.
The sole power of impeaching a president rest with the House of Representatives. It does not require any input from the court. If the president refuses to release information that may or may not help his/her case, he/she is free to do so, and the House can take his/her actions under consideration in their vote to impeach.
You do realize that in both the Nixon and Clinton proceedings the House was forced to take a vote on opening Impeachment Inquiry……she chose to take it on herself by simply declaring that an official inquiry has now begun. She is not doing as you want. Got it. I suggest she is taking a different route.
At last count there were 189 Democrats in favor of impeachment. About 50 of those came on board within the past 24 hours. One thing Pelosi is very good at. Counting. She probably won’t take a vote on articles of impeachment until she has 218 votes. I don’t suspect that will be very long. Of course, I supported impeachment months ago, so I am pleased to see Pelosi get there, for whatever reason. IF Senate republicans remove trump from office, I think Pence would be a better president than trump, but that is not saying very much. My biggest objection to Pence is he is likely to pardon trump.
As of 34 minutes ago per the NY times with a member by member list
197 now in support of an inquiry, 84 say no, 154 have not responded
2/3 of Dems now support….the tree fell……
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/us/politics/trump-impeachment-congress-list.html
That’s good news! I think within the week, Dems could have the 218 votes they need. Now that leadership is rowing in the same direction as pro-impeachment members, we can see the snowballing going on.
And an immediate validation of impeachment is how Trump has folded today on releasing the call transcript and the whistle-blower report. Nothing like this hasn’t happened before the official impeachment inquiry started.
It is. Of particular note…..7 Dems who won in Trump districts in 2018 joined together to write an a column for the NYT today saying it was time. 4 more have joined them.
I have just watched the statement made by Pelosi for television today and it is very sharply focused and clearly carefully prepared. I wonder if those Dems were the starter’s whistle….it’s time.
Yes, I posted about that letter last night, it sure seemed to be a prelude to a formal impeachment inquiry.
I do think that what happened, from spending time on Twitter over the weekend and seeing a big surge in vociferous tweeting by Dems and indies at Pelosi, congresspeople, etc., forcefully urging them to support impeachment and others telling people to make sure they call or email their congresspeople, that the groundswell from the public became irresistible for those 7 congresspeople and all the ones who’ve followed.
I’m sure some of the congresspeople were already alarmed but the intensity of the grass roots reaction to this betrayal by Trump pushed them over the top. As I mention above, it was a moment like El Paso where people said “Do something!” More speeches were not acceptable, action was demanded and to the Dems and Pelosi’s credit, they took action.
Actually, there doesn’t need to be a vote yet on Articles of Impeachment. The hearings can complete first then vote out Articles from their committees to Ben referred to the whole House.
The thing about Pence is that he’s got dirty hands with Ukraine too, he hand meetings there. He, Barr, Pompeo, Giuliani and Mulvaney are all on the legal radar now.
And Pence doesn’t inspire Repub voters like Trump, he could be much easier to beat.
Speaking of Pence replacing trump if the Senate Republicans
would actually convict him in his now all but inevitable
impeachment trial, I wonder if you’ve seen the reports Pence is
as guilty as trump since he was a knowing participant in trump’s
apparent Ukraine extortion plot.
If this turns out to be the case, Pence should also be impeached
as well as Trump.
https://www.alternet.org/2019/09/pence-knew-about-and-actually-participated-in-trumps-apparent-ukraine-extortion-plot-report/
Yes, Pence met with the Ukrainians too in this criminal venture, he’s guilty too and he could be impeached along with Trump. And criminal indictments under a new Dem President in 2021 should include William Barr, Rudy Giuliani and Miike Pence…n addition to Trump.
They certainly should.
What do you mean? When did I ever say that I needed a House vote right now? She will eventually need to have a vote and after this week, after she has 218 votes, I think she will.
She could have said this before and she created a big problem for the investigations previously by giving the Trump legal team the argument that Democrats did not agree on these being impeachment hearings so they weren’t legit investigations deserving of evidence and testimony.
She repaired the damage she caused now and gave the impeachment query legitimacy.
That is exactly what I wanted. What have I written that made you think I didn’t?
I did not say you did. I was pointing out that had she wanted to create a delay she could have fallen back on precedent and chose not to……from reports I read the decision was made yesterday. She read the tea leaves.
Here is a portion of Pelosi’s announcement supporting an impeachment inquiry:
Actually I think this is pretty much what the insiders have been laying out…methodical and step by step. Her view has been that the Speaker cannot drive impeachment efforts but must lead when the caucus makes its will clear. So here we are.
a) a growing support by members esp among those from toss up districts AND by those regarded as leaders in the caucus
b) something so egregious and so easily understood that the public could support it
We are apparently there……
I have heard and read this over and over again.
What is still missing….public support……no recent polling on the matter…..but that is what the Inquiry has a chance of ginning up.
And an inquiry is not impeachment. Voting the articles is impeachment. Next step.
Murph, to be very frank, that is ridiculous. Pelosi is not Nostradamus, she didn’t “plan” on Trump doing this exact outrage at this exact time or at any time,
It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to admit when you’ve made a mistake. And she made a mistake by not supporting impeachment and emboldened Trump to do such a horrible thing. It’s not a coincidence that he committed this act the day after Mueller testified…and Dems didn’t impeach. He felt untouchable because of that.
And those who supported Pelosi’s stonewalling made a mistake, it doesn’t change that by saying that now that she’s having to support impeachment, it was “the plan”. That’s just silly.
You have argued Pelosi was correct for opposing impeachment because of all the reasons she laid out, listed below.
First, you said if she didn’t have 218 votes in The House, she shouldn’t go along with impeachment. They still don’t have 218. So that box isn’t checked.
Second, you said there was no point to proceed if a 2/3 vote couldn’t be had in The Senate, that box isn’t checked.
Third, you said impeachment shouldn’t proceed if a majority of the public doesn’t support it first, you stressed this many times. That box isn’t checked.
I’m sorry if I’m a little frank about all of this but I think it is wrong for those who have been opposing impeachment for a variety of reasons, to swoop in and try and take credit for it when it happens without any of their requirements being met.
I detailed above why this happened and it had virtually nothing to do with Pelosi or those who were supporting her stonewalling of impeachment. Credit should go to those who genuinely made this happen, the grass roots, the Americans out there who have been supporting impeachment and finally had their “Do Something” moment after this outrageous betrayal and abuse of power by Trump. They called, texted and tweeted all those Dem Reps in red districts this week to push them to support impeachment. And many other grass roots Dems called and wrote to Pelosi and other Dem leadership, as well as Dems who already supported impeachment. This was a grass roots groundswell that brought this about, they’re the ones deserving the most credit.
Pelosi had one choice, jump on the rolling bandwagon or get run over by it and she jumped on. That is not a plan, that was not her plan, she did what she had no choice to do once the momentum became unstoppable.
I am very glad she did and I will support her and let bygones be bygones on this but I think credit should always and only be given to those who did the hard work despite opposition and achieved the goal.
I second every letter of every word you used; and as you’ve said everything that screams to be said now about the failure of Nancy Pelosi and her supporters in and out of Congress who fell for and willingly bought her political snake oil, all that’s left is to say is
“Bravo to you for telling it like it is and giving credit and deserved recognition only to those who pushed vigorously for trump’s impeachment hearings for many months and not to those who stood against it.”
Thanks so much, NoManIsAnIsland!
I think it is very important in these times, when there are those people who insult activism and trivialize it, that when the people step up and make something happen, they should be recognized for it and encouraged to keep it up.
We’re going to need them helping GOTV in 2020, registering voters, etc.
And part of recognizing those who made something happen, is not standing by and letting those who advocated against that or weren’t part of that effort, like Pelosi, to unfairly take that credit from them.
This is only an immediate issue for me, the grass roots made this happen and I think recognition of those who supported and promoted this deserve the limelight to themselves.
But after that initial victory lap that I think they deserve to take, we should all join them on the track together, with no grudges or resentments, and win this race together.
You’re welcome, AdLib!
WhileI don’t think we’ll have to wait years and years for
the judgement of history to confirm what many of us feel
already about the serious split in the Democratic Party and
the reluctance of its leaders to finally initiate impeachment proceedings against trump, it’s absolutely vital now for ALL
loyal Democrats and like-minded people regardless of their
other political affiliations to unite as you urge “and win this
race together.”
I do hope that Dem leadership will FINALLY learn a lesson about operating from a position of fearfulness vs. doing the right thing…but I’m not sure about that. I do hope Progressives find their way into strong positions of leadership and then, they can help to make better and more timely decisions for the party.
It is important to be thoughtful and strategic about making decisions but Pelosi’s wrong-headed game of throwing the majority of Dems in the House and especially Progressives a bone while blocking impeachment to protect a minority of fearful Dems has been proven to be a big mistake.
Hours after Pelosi stopped blocking impeachment and got on board, a flood of Dems joined on in The House and Senate and Trump, for the first time, backed down to Congress to offer the Ukrainian call notes (though they’ll be manipulated) and the whistle-blower’s complaint and testimony.
No way any of that would have happened otherwise.
So, will the more conservative and fearful Dems learn from their mistakes? I doubt it. The best way forward is to keep them out of leadership.
But as we agree, from now until the 2020 election, the only productive path is to come together and help push impeachment of Trump and victory in 2020 forward.
After we win in 2020, it will be time to get our Dem house in order though.
While I don’t believe the old saw “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks,” I do believe you can’t trust the corporatist influenced and dominated Dem leadership to actually perform a new trick they’ve only pretended to learn.
My rule of dumb – not thumb – with establishment Democrats and their close to Republicans-in-Democrats’ clothing hypocrites of leaders is “Fool me once, shame on You. Fool me twice, shame on me.” And from the time I was old enough to understand their racket, they never fooled me even once. It wasn’t necessarily that I was so perceptive – they were so transparently false.
Helping progressive become strong leaders and then keeping so-called “conservative,” but actually reactionary, Dems out of leadership positions is the only hope for the revitalization of the Democratic Party – not only after we win in 2020, but also in supporting their candidacies in the coming primaries and election. I don’t think the two goals are mutually exclusive.
Right with you on this. Both parties put up a facade for their base voters. I don’t have to describe the Trump GOP’s facade but the Dem facade tries to hide how beholden and loyal they are corporations and lobbyists by presenting their party as belonging to the people.
There are legit Dems who do think in terms of being there to represent what’s best for the people but they aren’t in leadership as much as the beholden.
I do see progress on this though and The Squad represents that change as well as Pelosi pledging that she will step aside from leadership in 2020. We need to elect a bunch more Progressives then!
The Squad represents a very welcome change, and it’s very important that the
next Dem leader of the House
be a progressive.
Also when (rather than if, I hope) Elizabeth Warren is nominated —
and whether or not she wins (although I expect her to) — her nomination alone should encourage more progressives across the country to run for city, state, and national offices.
I have been following and involved in politics since I was knee high to a duck. I was forced to be concerned about politics as a black person who grew up in the rural south during Jim Crow. I was always concerned with what the leaders in the government were willing to do for common people and people who did not have a seat at the table.
I could outline the evolution of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, but I suspect most people in this forum already know about that evolution. From my perspective, since the late 60’s the Democratic Party has been the party of those who did not have a seat at the table.
Just as in the years prior to the #MeToo Movement when men were allowed to get away with sexual abuse and harassment, both major political parties have, for a long time, being able to get away with “dancing with the person who brung them”, so to speak. What I mean by that is that politicians acted like politicians in that they would prioritize the things that people who helped them get elected and re-elected, wanted.
If a segment of the population had issues they wanted addressed, but that segment of the population did not vote or participate in the election process, even if a politician wanted to help them, they had to first worry about getting elected. The Democrats in Congress as well as presidents I have followed by the past 50 years, were very concerned about what people call progressive issues today. The problem has been that progressive people have not consistently voted in numbers that would get a politician elected and re-elected, especially at the state and federal levels. If and when that changes, politicians will change their priorities, regardless of political affiliation.
Ridiculous. Quite dismissive.
Pelosi is not nostradamus….I never said she was.
She has laid out what she regarded as necessary for an impeachment process to begin in ernest. I outlined them.
You do not agree.
Got it.
I’m sorry if my response came off badly.
It’s a very powerful moment and a validation for those who have been pressing for impeachment regardless of political considerations.
What I was strongly reacting to is crediting Pelosi, who has been the major obstacle to doing this, for this moment. None of her mandatory conditions were met which is proof that this didn’t happen because of her, it happened despite her.
As I said, the bandwagon was rolling and she could either jump on it or get run over. She wasn’t driving it. So why not give credit to all of the Congresspeople and grass roots people who pushed the cart to an unstoppable speed?
As I’ve mentioned, I don’t hold grudges and after today, as long as she isn’t given credit that belongs to others, I won’t have any more criticisms about Pelosi on this…unless she again tries to stonewall impeachment.
I will continue to give her credit. She waited. She worked to support the structures that opened avenues of inquiry. She tamped down flames that threatened to flare far too early in her estimation. And she used the leadership to steer the action. She said that there would come a moment when it would be clear that there was matter that would touch a wide band of citizens. In her estimation this was it. I know we do not agree but I give this very accomplished women a lot of credit and will continue to do so.
I’ll continue to disagree with you on that.
I just don’t understand the inflation of Pelosi into this omniscient, infallible genius. She is a talented politician but she is human and she’s does make mistakes.
She made a huge mistake by stonewalling impeachment and publicly disputing that the current hearings were impeachment hearings. She damaged the perception of Democrats as being toothless, allowed their hearings to become circuses and stalled, unattended by Trump admin and lawyers.
Pelosi answered questions about impeachment by saying she’d rather see Trump in jail, rather see him defeated in 2020. Not impeached.
Giving someone who opposed something, credit for it happening despite their opposition escapes me.
I give credit to the people like Nadler who pressed Pelosi to accept having hearings and impeachment. That wasn’t what she wanted. In fact, she got upset with him going farther than she wanted. But as it’s all turned out, he was right and she’s was wrong.
Pelosi does deserve respect for her many accomplishments, including whipping the vote for the ACA. But I think it diminishes her actual accomplishments by giving her credit for things she opposed happening but happened anyway.
Like most crooks, trump is his own worst enemy. Had he not attempted to bribe Ukraine into giving him dirt on Joe Biden, he probably would not have been impeached. But since it got away with it once, why not try it again by using the power of the presidency? Of course, that is illogical, but that is trump’s logic.
There’s no substitute for good old fashioned logic.