Vox Populi – 5-22-2015

Good Friday evening, Planeteers! Welcome to the beginning of the Memorial Day weekend! Fill us in on your plans. (I considered watching a marathon of “19 Kids and Counting” on Netflix, then thought twice.)

kesmarn

Howdy….I will just hang loose until a quorum arrives.

MurphTheSurf3

Hey, Murph! Good to see you. How’s your week been?

kesmarn

Planting, planting and more planting.

MurphTheSurf3

Ah, yes! This would be the time of year for that!

kesmarn

We had some horrid rain storms earlier this month that caused flooding. It put me weeks behind.

MurphTheSurf3

We’ve been pretty fortunate in Ohio. I live in an area that borders a very agricultural section — corn, wheat, soybeans and apples are big crops around here.

kesmarn

So far the balance of rain and sun has been pretty good.

kesmarn

I do 12 one thousand square foot truck gardens and sell my produce to a restaurant supply house. Getting back on schedule is important.

MurphTheSurf3

Is that glenn I see up there? Hey, glenn! How’s everything in Atlanta?

kesmarn

Murph, I can imagine keeping to a schedule would be huge in that business. Are you pretty much organic?

kesmarn

Hey Kes. Just trying to get the VOX “box” positioned on my computer. Ha! The hyprocisy burns with the “19” doesn’t it? Hey Murph!

glenn

Kes….organic and locally grown is how my veggies are advertised.

MurphTheSurf3

Are you getting that right lower corner of the box nailed down okay? LOL! Yes, the Duggars may actually have to get real jobs now. Unbelievable, no?

kesmarn

I control most insect pests with spiders that are then washed off in a bath (the spiders swim to the side and go back out into the wild. I order them by the bag from Indiana.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph–“funny” story for you about organic. In Iran, everything was organic–human organic–if you know what I mean. It was not good when you got behind the “honey wagon” on the roads!

glenn

Glenn…when were you in Iran?

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, that’s amazing! I didn’t know you could order bags of spiders online! I might have to send those to “special” people in the GOP!

kesmarn

Kes….I had never though of a Spidergram for the GOP.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph–We were there from 1976 to 1978. We left in June, 1978. The shah left in Jan., 1979.

glenn

glenn, I was in Taiwan for a while and they fertilized with “night soil” there. Unless veggies were well cooked there was a real possibility of getting amoebic dysentery.

kesmarn

Glenn and Kes…I use natural composts including dried cow manure.

MurphTheSurf3

Kes–We had to use a special wash called Roccal to avoid the “Tehran trots”.

glenn

glenn, I went to a lecture by Reza Aslan a few weeks ago. He said his family left Iran (where he grew up) right around the time Ayatollah Khomeini appeared. Aslan’s (atheist) father listened to him one time and said: “This is bullshit” and took the family out of the country to America.

kesmarn

Murph–But, can’t you just wash cow manure off with water?

glenn

Kes–I have watched several of Aslan’s appearances on TV. I think he is an intelligent, interesting, (not to mention good-looking) man.

glenn

When you drive past farm fields here in Ohio on a summer’s evening sometimes you can still get the aroma of manure-fertilized fields. Not exactly a tourist draw — but it’s the real deal.

kesmarn

Oh glenn, I really fell in love with him at that lecture (along with about 300 other women). He’s SO funny! And of course, smart and compassionate. He is NO fan of ISIS, that’s for sure.

kesmarn

Glenn, the cow manure is mixed in the soil. I use a combo of top soil, compost, and potting soil, with an organic root starter put into pre dug “pots” in my clay heavy soil.

MurphTheSurf3

Kes–In our much younger days, my husband and I used to drive out to the roads they had platted for Port St. Lucie (FL) but hadn’t built on yet. There were still some farms around and sometimes the cows would get loose, so we would pick up dried cow patties to fertilize our lawn. Very aromatic when it rained; but we had the greenest lawn in the neighborhood!

glenn

LOL! I can imagine!

kesmarn

Here in Ohio there’s a huge amount of attention being paid to fertilizers because the nitrate-based ones run off into Lake Erie and feed these big algae blooms that cause the drinking water to become dangerous.

kesmarn

Murph–sounds like a winning combination. Have you always used that mixture? Are you veggies and plants bigger and better?

glenn

Just curious on how you both feel about these GOP charges that the President’s “rudderless” foreign policy is to blame for the rise of ISIS in the ME?

kesmarn

Kes–Quite simply–BS!

glenn

If memory serves me… Dubya negotiated the terms and timing for the troop withdrawal from Iraq. And when Obama offered to keep more troops there longer, Maliki refused to sign on.

kesmarn

Murph–sorry. “Are YOUR veggies….”

glenn

Kes–your memory serves you well. It’s the GOP that likes those made-up memories. But dontcha know that Iraq was stable and Al-Queda was “defeated” when we were there? What is the matter with you?

glenn

Silly me! It was a veritable paradise after “Shock and Awe.” And then Socialist Obama let it all go to hell.

kesmarn

Kes–I know. “Mission Accomplished” you know! Complete with codpiece!

glenn

Rubio is practically announcing that he plans to bomb — well — pretty much everywhere when he becomes President. ‘Cause that’s what Real Men do.

kesmarn

Hello good folks. I hope everyone is well.

Sabreen60

I saw a clip from a Dubya speech to a graduating class today (WHO invited HIM?) and he’s still making lame jokes about how C students can become president. I’d say it didn’t work out too well having a C student like him running the show.

kesmarn

Hey, Sabreen! Good to see you! How’s your Friday?

kesmarn

Kes–Yes, and I think it was Perry who said today that we should use “pre-emptive strikes” so we don’t get attacked. I can’t figure out if these asshats don’t know geography; beause I don’t know how any ME country is going to get bombs here. Yes, I know about 9/11, but that wasn’t a country that executed that plan; it was a group of terrorists.

glenn

Hey Sabreen–how are you?

glenn

Kes–didn’t finish my sentence–they either don’t know geography, or don’t care; let’s just bomb away!

glenn

Exactly, glenn! After all this time, they still don’t get it. There’s not a “place” where fundie-Islamic extremism “lives” that you can bomb and make the problem go away.

kesmarn

We’re fighting an idea.

kesmarn

Kes–fighting an idea both here in the US and in the ME. And in the ME, IMO, their idea is that we are bullies. Problem is they’re right!

glenn

Hey kes, glenn Murph – I’m okay. Just been on and off this darn computer most of the day. I will pay the price tomorrow for not getting anything done today.

Sabreen60

Glenn-back from a phone call….I have been learning and adapting as I go. I took gardening up for a hobby but it has become a part time job and a good one.

MurphTheSurf3

Sabreen–My philosophy since I retired is “there’s always tomorrow to do chores”. Finally cleaned my house today after about three weeks. I do clean the bathrooms, but the dusting and mopping can always wait for another day.

glenn

Yes! Aslan was saying that this extremism exists in every major religion. Including Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. He said they all view it as a “cosmic struggle between the forces of good and evil” (With all of them on “God’s side”) and that’s what we’re battling.

kesmarn

I was reading comments and remembered this article I read about bird flu and eggs. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/22/us-health-birdflu-egg-shortages-idUSKBN0O70AY20150522?utm_source=twitter This is scary. Eggs are used in vaccines for measles and mumps, also.

Sabreen60

Sabreen, same here — computer and phone today. (4 hours on the blasted phone!)

kesmarn

Wow. I don’t know why my link looks crazy?

Sabreen60

Sabreen–we also had to use Roccal on the eggs in Iran, because they weren’t cleaned before they went to market. In fact, you had to be very careful even handling them.

glenn

It’s looking OK here, Sabreen. I’ve been following this bird flu thing too. It’s really going to raise food prices, I’m afraid…

kesmarn

Kes–if food prices go up, it will all be President Obama’s fault, you know!

glenn

Regarding the commentary about ISIS…let’s not forget that the GOP candidates are now in a huge scrammble to get enough polling pull to get on the stage in the Fox and CNN debates….so outrageous statements will abound.

MurphTheSurf3

glenn, I hear you. People use to say my floors looked like you could eat off them. I must have been crazy. Why would anyone want to eat off floors.

Sabreen60

Evening everyone. Who is Mr. Roarke tonight?

funksands

Hi funk.

MurphTheSurf3

You mean Ayn’s Mr. Roark, funk? NOT ME!!

kesmarn

Hey Murph

funksands

No, our host Mr. Roarke. Fantasy Island

funksands

Murph–as many people have already pointed out–just when you think the gop can’t get any lower or crazier, they lower the bar another notch. As you say, it ought to be interesting!

glenn

Have you selected the ten finalist for the GOP debates in that smoke-filled room, Funk?

kesmarn

Funk…shortly after your “LOL” at Y. yesterday Barry pull down his fiction re. Obama EO’s

MurphTheSurf3

Hi Funk–how are you? What role does Mr. Roarke play?

glenn

Hiya Funk!

Sabreen60

Ohhhh! THAT Mr. Roarke. Not me again. I’m just the person who says: “De plane! De plane!

kesmarn

Not yet, but we’re thinking that a 22 round cage match would settle things quickly

funksands

Ricardo Montalban?

funksands

Funk–can one type with an accent?

glenn

Murph, there are some real interesting folks over there.

funksands

Corinthian Leather! (Nope, no accent there…)

kesmarn

Funk, there are….and the debate is pretty lively.

MurphTheSurf3

Ahf corse ze accents iz eesy

funksands

Murph–can you explain your comment about Barry?

glenn

Kes, I saw you accent in my mind. Well done

funksands

Ah, good! It worked then.

kesmarn

Glenn…Funk and I were speaking of a big debate on another website where a right wing cut and paste post blew up on the poster.

MurphTheSurf3

Funk–what kind of smoke is in that room?

glenn

The good kind

funksands

The happy kind.

kesmarn

Murph–oh good. I like to see the rwnj people get their “just desserts”.

glenn

I’m feeling a little sleepy, so don’t be alarmed if i conk out in mid-sentence. Hiked Mt. Si today, then followed up that grueling hike with McDonalds and a pizza. Gak!

funksands

BRB

Sabreen60

BRB

MurphTheSurf3

Kes and Funk–I once went to an Eagles concert and got high from all the MJ smoke in the place and I never smoked a joint! This was many years ago, when you could still smoke indoors.

glenn

LOL is really the only comment that most RWNJ posts deserve. Wasting ANY energy refuting a cut and paste that’s been posted on 1,000 mouth-breather websites is pointless.

funksands

Glenn, that was smart shopping!

funksands

Speaking of blowing up. Did anyone see the story this week of the SC guy who refused to sign up for Obamacare and then discovered that he needed a $30000 eye operation to keep from going blind? Initially he was blaming the Prez. But when he set up a Gofundme page and ONLY liberals contributed he had a come-to-Jesus moment and switched parties.

kesmarn

Kes? That sounds almost too good to be true.

funksands

Its awesome! But I’m too cynical I guess.

funksands

Truth, funk. Now he want to appear on the Rachel Maddow Show to urge people to sign up. LOL!

kesmarn

I can get the link to his Gofundme page, because I was one of those bleeding hearts who actually contributed to his cause!

kesmarn

Kes–saw that story. I even went to his gofundme page to read some of the comments. Some of them were spot on. One guy told him if he (the poster) could figure out to send bootsraps through email; he’d send him some.

glenn

The fact that there is such a thing as a $30K eye operation is the real problem, not this man’s obstinance

funksands

I saw that, glenn! Too funny.

kesmarn

You realize he just turned around and bought a 1,000 Ann Coulter books with that money

funksands

Glenn

funksands

Well, there is that too funk. And the fact that SC refused to expand Medicaid, which would have helped him

kesmarn

The comments on his page are awesome. I’ll try to get the link. Hold on.

kesmarn

Kes–When I read about this guy’s “change of heart”, it reminded me of Joe the Plumber. I hope the left doesn’t make an “idol” out of Louis the Loser. I mean, I feel sorry for him, but he is just like all the other Obama haters out there. He didn’t have any facts, just went on pure spite and misinformation. SMH

glenn

Kes – I read that story. Bleeding heart liberals

Sabreen60

kesmarn

My favorite comment:

funksands

Maureen Vail 747747 10 days ago If only there was some type of program that would allow people to pay money into a pool even if they were healthy so that if the time ever came when they would need it, they would not have to worry about losing evetrything they worked for. Maybe they could even have a preexisting condition and not have to worry about it being covered. Oh, and if they couldn’t afford the premium, maybe the state they live in could expand medicaid so it it can help them afford it. A subsidy, if you will. If that was offered by the Federal Government to states it would be CRAZY for the states to deny that to their citizens. Yeah, if only.

funksands

Not one conservative contributed. Not one.

kesmarn

That one got something like 1000 likes, funk! Awesome comment!

kesmarn

See? We don’t need govt. programs at all! Everyone just needs their own perpetual GoFundMe page.

funksands

Funk–Yea, I loved that comment too. I do love that all of these BS “policies” that the gop has been spouting are now coming back to bite them in the ass. You know, like lower taxes, small gubment, etc. Kansas being the prime example.

glenn

I told him that when the next enrollment period came around and he found out he could get coverage even WITH his pre-existing cond’ns, he should send a thank you note to BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.

kesmarn

Made sure I got that HUSSEIN in there.

kesmarn

Kes–and perhaps he should send some of Murph’s spiders or even his cow patties to his gop rep!

glenn

Glenn, excellent suggestion

funksands

Purely in the interest of good farming practices, glenn.

kesmarn

Funk–so now we have to depend on the “kindness of strangers”.

glenn

I will toss in moldy mushrooms if that would help

MurphTheSurf3

Murph–you are a prince among men to contribute to the gop!

glenn

Although most GOPers in SC produce enough BS so that they don’t need fertilizer from out of state.

kesmarn

If we give the ultra-wealthy ALL the money, they’ll surely take care of all !

funksands

They’re just holding off until they all have “enough.” Then they’ll start sharing.

kesmarn

Hey how about Ireland voting on gay marriage!!

funksands

Funk–you mean, like they have so far? Yeah, they sure have “taken care of all.” Die quickly and shut up about it while you’re dying–oh and don’t expect more than $9.00 an hour.

glenn

Yeah! Is the result in yet?

kesmarn

Of course if you are woman who wants birth control or an abortion, you are going to jail. yay

funksands

Results Saturday. (their saturday), late tonight for us

funksands

But if you’re a Duggar, no matter what you do, you’re NOT going to jail.

kesmarn

Glenn, if we stuff them so full of money, they’ll have to vomit some of it out right?

funksands

And if you go to jail – then you may decide to become gay – Ben Carson

Sabreen60

Funk–or if you have a miscarriage. But a rape that produces a child is a “beautiful thing”. Jesus H. Christ, these people sure think their sperm is valuable!

glenn

It will come out the other end, funk. In the form of higher taxes on minimum wage workers.

kesmarn

Funk–or shit it out and then we’ll have to wade through their shit! Oh wait, we’re already doing that!

glenn

Glenn, that’s freedom you are smelling

funksands

Kes – Evidently as CL said on another blog Jesus is the GOOJF (Get Out of Jail Free) card. So you do any litlle old nasty thing you want, ask JC to forgive you and no worries.

Sabreen60

Funk–oh silly me! How could I miss that smell?

glenn

Right, Sabreen. Unless you’re a Librul. Then everything you do is the Unpardonable Sin.

kesmarn

Stop denying the wealthy the ability to own a gold-plated ferrari. Why do you hate America?

funksands

Sabreen–except if you’re gay. I’m still trying to figure out how JC made all these gay people. Oh well, I guess everyone makes mistakes, right?

glenn

Huckabee is blaming the mean people who are talking about the Duggars for persecuting a godly Christian family. Whew… Orwellian!

kesmarn

Their hypocrisy knows no bounds – Dr. Holliday

Sabreen60

Mike knows all about the pain of having a deviant as a son. Hits close to home for him

funksands

Kes–I truly can’t believe these people. And, the thing that I still haven’t heard anything about or from are the victims of duggar spawn’s molestation. I guess they’re such good little christians that they have “forgiven” him. Or, they just looked at it as “practice”.

glenn

Irish probably comfortable with gay marriage because they’re very unlikely to seek an abortion

funksands

They’re always the victims. No matter what the circumstances. And Duggars real victims are ignored, as you said glenn.

kesmarn

glenn – Probably scared to death.

Sabreen60

G’day all.

pinkpantheroz

Hey Pink!

funksands

Gotta hand it to them for the brazen come-back to — to anyone who doesn’t like what they’ve done: “Well, we’re all sinners in need of forgiveness. Or are YOU perfect?” Sigh… Like their silly argument for Creationism: “Were you there?” Mind-boggling lack of logic.

kesmarn

Wifey read me something tonight. First time ever more people have emigrated from Australia to NZ rather than the other way around. (Thanks Obama)

funksands

G’Day PPO! How’s everything in the Merry Ole Land of Oz?

kesmarn

Hiya PPO!

Sabreen60

Have you been getting some earthquakes down there?

kesmarn

Everyone been having fun following the TPP and TPA fiasco?

funksands

Nice, Kes! I’m looking today at Ireland, though. Can’t wait for the full result. funk, what has POTUS to do with migration from Aus to NZ?

pinkpantheroz

Funk…your read on the TPP/TPA?

MurphTheSurf3

I am SOOOO confused on TPP. ‘Splain this to us, funk.

kesmarn

Pink, nice try! Everyone knows Obama is to blame

funksands

So let me outline what happened last night: My blood’s still boiling

funksands

Oh, dear me! SO SORRY, funk. Of Course!

pinkpantheroz

Lots of Congressional shenanigans…

kesmarn

Funk – Sure! Bernie Sanders admitted today that he hasn’t bothered to read any of the TPP. He hates all trade deals, but he wants to be President. “Head meet desk”

Sabreen60

1) A vote in the Senate to allow Fast Track came up

funksands

Sabreen, SHHHHHH! don’t say anything to Nirek!

pinkpantheroz

But what about BOEING???

kesmarn

2. Fast track allows no amendments to the TPP, and 90 seconds of comment from Senators before the vote

funksands

PPO – Hey – free your mind and your ass will follow.

Sabreen60

3. The Senate did not have 60 votes to clear a filibuster yet…

funksands

brb

pinkpantheroz

But what about BOEING???

kesmarn

Hey PPO–I was gone for a minute, but I’m back.

glenn

4. My two Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell were holding out, (Hang on Kes!)

funksands

But…?

kesmarn

The public will have 90 days to review TPP before President Obama signs it and it goes to Congress. I believe Congress will have about 4 months before they have to vote it up or down.

Sabreen60

Funk – I believe if passed cloture. But I’ll look again.

Sabreen60

5. SO… the CEO of Boeing, who just happened to be in the building, begins to lean on Cantwell about the import/export bank funding expiring and that it is of utmost importance that that get renewed

funksands

And….?

kesmarn

6. McConnell agrees to hold a vote next week on the import/export bank if Murray and Cantwell flip

funksands

Sabreen–knowing Congress, those four months will be on vacation. Then they’ll come back for two or three days to vote on it–find they can’t come to an agreement, or haven’t had time to read it and those four months will turn into about a year, so they can make sure to tie it to the 2016 elections.

glenn

(What a coincidence that he happened to be there, btw…

kesmarn

7. So they do. And they convince two Republicans to do the same.

funksands

The BOEING CEO…

kesmarn

Yep. TPA passed.

Sabreen60

And…?

kesmarn

8. So to recap, the CEO of Boeing not only gets to have face time with his Senators (They’re in Chicago BTW), but he gets a vote on the TPA, in exchange for a vote on on the import/export bank.

funksands

Of which he wants both

funksands

Funk, no wonder you are pissed.

MurphTheSurf3

THAT’s how its done folks

funksands

The CEO of Boeing is a senator?

glenn

It IS good to be the king.

kesmarn

No Glenn, he is not. He just gets access to them while a critical vote is going on. You know, just like everyone

funksands

glenn, I’m willing to bet my last dollar that Bernie Sanders isn’t the only Senator who hasn’t bothered to read TPP at this point. They make me sick. All this jawjacking and they won’t even read the thing.

Sabreen60

I expected Murray to vote for the TPP, I just didn’t expect them to roll and allow TPA

funksands

Funk–just like everyone with too much money, you mean.

glenn

At least Walker is brazenly mercenary. They actually put out a price list with the terms for buying access to him.

kesmarn

Its bullshit. The fix is in. Sabers, they’re only a few Senators have been allowed to see portions of the bill and once they do, they’re now in possession of classified information.

funksands

Sabreen–kind of like Obamacare, right? I would be willing to bet that 99% of repub congress critters–and probably 50% of Dems–haven’t ever read the ACA either. Just let foxsocallednews tell you what’s in it.

glenn

Funk – Why is that President Obama is the only President who is not, what intelligent enough, moral enough, have US workers at heart to have this authority? Inquiring minds wants to know.

Sabreen60

glenn, exactly. Then it was the Blue Dogs and Repubs who accused Dems of “shoving the bill down their throats” when the bill had been on line for months.

Sabreen60

Here’s Walker’s menu of “levels of access” complete with the amount each one will cost ya. When poor women do this, it’s called “prostitution” and they get arrested.

kesmarn

Sabreen–your question to Funk is a rhetorial question, isn’t it? Because if Obama does it, it’s wrong, no matter what it is

glenn

Sabreen, I don’t doubt the President’s intentions. He’s not running some kind of con job. I think he thinks that this is going to be a good thing. I think he’s wrong. Clinton thought NAFTA was going to be awesome too. I believe he believed that. He was wrong. I think Obama is wrong too.

funksands

I think Warren nailed it when she said both NAFTA and TPP might be argued to be OK — IF the regulations in them were enforced. WHICH THEY NEVER ARE. They certainly weren’t with NAFTA.

kesmarn

Funk – I don’t think that’s accurate about “only a few” Senators have been allowed to see it. Senators can even take some staff with them to make notes. But “smartypants”, “The Daily Banter”, The Peoples View” and even the Washington Post (which I don’t like) have great info about what is and is not.

Sabreen60

There is no such thing as a “free trade agreement”. Simply “favorable” trade agreements. We just don’t get to know who gets the favors. I have a hard time believing that an agreement crafted by multi-national corporations will benefit the little guy in any measurable way

funksands

Funk, doesn’t it seem as though it threatens US sovereignty too? Legally the corporation’s laws and lawyers can trump the US Government’s if I understand this correctly.

kesmarn

Somehow I have a sinking feeling that this thing is gonna pass, though…

kesmarn

Sabreen, I’ve read those. I hope they’re right. We’ve been here before. NAFTA was passed just this way.

funksands

I’m sorry, but nothing written this way, with this level of secrecy and with almost no public debate is not going to magically help our nation’s public purpose.

funksands

But again, I hope I’m completely wrong

funksands

Kes, how’s Waco treating you?

funksands

When the unions, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown are all very much against it, I have to at least listen to them.

kesmarn

I’m waiting for my wings here at the Twin Peaks restaurant, funk…

kesmarn

It’s reallll quiet.

kesmarn

Funk–what are the repercussions/consequences of NATA? Do you think those same consquences will happen with TPP?

glenn

Worth the read IMO:

Sabreen60

Thanks, Sabreen!

kesmarn

Folks….I love this conversation but I am fading fast. You have enlightened me and given me much food for thought.

MurphTheSurf3

Sabreen, I agree. She makes some really good points.

funksands

G’night, Murph. Hope you get just the right weather for those crops!

kesmarn

G’night Murph. Have a good weekend and Happy Planting!

glenn

Glenn, one consequence is the mexican immigration problem that we had for several years. Almost 4 million Mexican farmers got put out of business because of NAFTA

funksands

Funk–oops–“consequences of NAFTA?

glenn

Maybe the one thing Ross Perot was right about was when he said there’d be a giant “sucking sound” of manufacturing jobs going from the US to Mexico. That did happen.

kesmarn

Glenn, I have no idea what the TPP will do because I know nothing about it. The “impression I am getting is that it is comparatively better than NAFTA. But that doesn’t make it objectively a good thing

funksands

Kes, yep

funksands

Only Mexican factory workers got crappy wages and horrible working conditions.

kesmarn

Night Murph!

funksands

Funk – If there was a way for ONLY American citizens could view TPP without the 11 other nations seeing it, I might agree with you. But the problem is letting China know what deal we’re doing with Vietnam or Mexico. Another point: Why is this ONLY about TPP? Why isn’t anyone fixated on TTIP, which is virtually the same as TPP except it’s with European nations.

Sabreen60

Good night Murph. Take care.

Sabreen60

Funk–thanks for the info.

glenn

G’night, Murpg

pinkpantheroz

Oops! Murph!

pinkpantheroz

Sabreen–you are extremely informed about these trade deals. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

glenn

Sabreen, no doubt. I understand the need for some secrecy. But that is supposed to end on the floor of Congress. That’s where we’re supposed to find out what’s going on

funksands

Funk – The USA will NEVER be able to compete with nations who pay their workers $1.57 an hour. TPP attempts to put some teeth in what countries who sign on to the agreement most pay their workers. But those low paying jobs are not coming back here. TPP is important for mid to higher paying jobs. Other countries will have to put up or shut up.

Sabreen60

Australia is worried about the TPP. One worry is that the US Pharmaceuticals will jackboot their way into increasing prices here for medicines

pinkpantheroz

Marcy Kaptur posted a photo of the room where they’re allowed to get info. They have to put their cell phones in little lockers. And I gather they have to memorize the parts of the deal that they want to discuss later.

kesmarn

By the time a bill is going to be passed into law, secrecy is trumped by disclosure.

funksands

Kes, that’s interesting.

funksands

Why not “fast track” war authorization? Don’t want our enemies to get the jump on us!

funksands

Can anyone show where the TPP encourages firms to rehire US citizens and stop the outsourcing of jobs to other 3rd world countries?

pinkpantheroz

kesmarn

Australia will have to decide if signing on to TPP is in their best interest. Either the USA takes the lead on this or we’ll follow some other country. Probably China. The bottom line is unless we become isolationists, we’re going to have to trade with other nations. How we do that is what’s be debating by people who are being honest about their intentions.

Sabreen60

Rep. Kaptur calls into the secure room in the basement of the U.S. Capitol where Members of Congress are allowed to read the nearly 1000 page Trans-Pacific Partnership draft agreement. She had to leave her cell phone in the lockers on the left and was not allowed to take away any notes, photos, or copies. She is not allowed to talk about what she read with anyone unless they have Top Secret clearance. “Not good.” -MK

kesmarn

“what’s being debated”

Sabreen60

As usual, the devil is in the detail, and it seems to be very little of that being distributed

pinkpantheroz

Pink, that’s going to have to be done through the tax code. We pay countries to leave our nation.

funksands

Sabreen, there’s a big gap between becoming isolationist and this process. You’d have to agree with that.

funksands

funk, I assume you mean companies. well, we’ll just have to see.

pinkpantheroz

Again, I don’t know what’s in the agreement.

funksands

Pink, yes that’s what I meant

funksands

frustrating, isn’t it? and we’re just discussing it. try to legislate with hands tied behind your back. Of course, the GOP will say NO anyway, unless of course, it benefits the Kock Bros.

pinkpantheroz

PPO – As you know TPP is very complex. Of all the articles I’ve read, I highly recommend the 3 articles that Spandan has written on The Peoples View. There many really intelligent folks who comment. Once you’ve read and still have question they will be more than happy to answer them. They are more capable then I. However, I could to TPV and research your question, but it would take time. I will say this, though. Many companies are returning to this country already. However, even President Obama has said there are companies who will opt to pay their workers 1.57 per/hr than our min wage. We can’t FORCE companies not to do that. We can give them incentives as PBO has attempted to do.

Sabreen60

PPO, this is one time when Mitch McConnell is convinced that the President is a total genius and is 100% in his corner. Strange bedfellows indeed.

kesmarn

Funk – What is it? Bernie hates all trade agreements as do many on the far left. I have yet to hear an alternative.

Sabreen60

Kes, yeah I have an immediate reaction to something that McConnell, Boehner and Obama are all behind. Wha?

funksands

Going to have to follow Murph out the door. Interesting and informative discussion tonight folks. I hope everyone takes time out to respect the intent of Memorial Day and has a good weekend. ‘Nite all!

glenn

From smartypants: In commenting about the Senate cloture vote on Trade Promotion Authority yesterday, Paul Waldman wrote this: If I were a cynic, I’d say the only thing that can bring Democrats and Republicans together like that is a bill that’s supported by corporate America. Does anyone else remember that corporate America strongly supports comprehensive immigration reform? Why hasn’t that brought Democrats and Republicans together? I’m certainly not one who is interested in taking up a defense of “corporate America.” But I do think they’ve become the convenient villain for liberals to blame. Truth is, it only bothers me when it becomes a knee-jerk response that keeps people from looking a bit deeper into things that are often much more complex than an over-simplified “point-and-blame” response can capture.

Sabreen60

Have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend, glenn. Here’s to peace! G’night!

kesmarn

Sabreen, discuss it publicly. I don’t have a problem with an agreement I know nothing about. I can’t pass judgment on something I know nothing about. I have suspicions, but my real heartburn is how the process is being handled. I don’t like it.

funksands

Night Glenn

funksands

Thanks, Sabreen, I’ll check those articles out. I get a tad cynical when I think of jobs returning to the US on slave wages. Why not federalize the minimum wage here and slap huge import tariffs on incoming goods that could be made in the US and level the playing field?

pinkpantheroz

Well….I stayed through the discussion. Fascinating.

MurphTheSurf3

night, glenn.

pinkpantheroz

PPO – So I gather you believe that TPP should be put on line for all to read, before it’s finalized – even those countries with whom we’re trying to work a deal?

Sabreen60

This has been a really wonderful discussion. Very informative and — as always on the Planet — totally respectful. I love this place!

kesmarn

Sabreen, of course!

pinkpantheroz

Kes – Me too.

Sabreen60

Kes…yes, it has.

MurphTheSurf3

Where else but here could we do this kind of discussion? NOWHERE! Thank goodness for Planet!

pinkpantheroz

PPO – But negotiations are not done like that. If you’re in a legal deal with someone, your lawyer is not going to the other lawyer everything that you say. Or if you buying a home, the buyer is not going to tell the seller exactly what they’ll pay.

Sabreen60

I guess the thing that has me most concerned is the US sovereignty issue. When multi-national corporations can overrule US (or any other country’s) laws, I worry.

kesmarn

Sabreen, I don’t think we even need that. As odious as Congress is, public floor debate, public committee hearings have been perfectly fine as public disclosure

funksands

Well, gotta sign off, cheerio everybody.

pinkpantheroz

Me too for real this time.

MurphTheSurf3

G’night, PPO! Have a great weekend!

kesmarn

I have to go to. Falling asleep at the keyboard. Have a good weekend everyone!!

funksands

Funk – I’m talking about what the other countries will counter with once they know exactly what we want.

Sabreen60

I might have to take my leave as well. Almost midnight here! G’night, funk!

kesmarn

Night PPO and Funk. Have a great week!

Sabreen60

Well, Sabreen, you have been awesome tonight! You’ve presented so many good point and so many resources. Thank you!

kesmarn

I’m out too folks. Take care everyone.

Sabreen60

G’night! Have a great weekend — whatever you do. Thanks again!

kesmarn

Thanks Kes. I’ve been reading about this for months. I don’t have all the answers, by any means. I just try to direct people to sources who may have more info.

Sabreen60

That’s all any of us can do. I’m still studying this one. Very complex! And people I really respect on both sides of the issue. Well, good night once more.

kesmarn

I missed Murph. Night Murph!

Sabreen60