On April - 24 - 2015
Hey glenn!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey Ad–Here are my two best quotes of the week from Jay Bookman at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. #1. Referring to the “new” Benghazi committee chaired by Curt Gowdy, which, of course won’t take place until next year: ” The Select Committee on Dead-Horse Flogging. #2. Referring to the same committee: “Gowdy and his gang of post-mortem equine abusers.” Love Jay!
glenn
7 days ago
Well said!
AdLib 7 days ago
So, how was your week, Ad? What mud do you think is sticking to Hillary?
glenn
7 days ago
That’s a horse of a different color…black and blue.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–I know, poor horse!
glenn
7 days ago
This week went well, how about you? This is exactly what I had been cautioning about Hillary, it’s a huge mistake for Dems to put all of their eggs on her basket.
AdLib 7 days ago
My week–same ol’, same ol’. Which is a good thing. I’m getting too old for too many “surprises”. As for all eggs in one basket, I see Martin O’Malley is starting to speak out a little. Sure wish he would announce.
glenn
7 days ago
Hillary and Bill have led a very entangled and complicated life with politics and finance. Wall Street seems amused at her populist outbursts, they seem to be assured, maybe by Bill, that it’s all just a ploy to keep Progressives from getting into the primary.
AdLib 7 days ago
I think O’Malley will declare but I think his tactic of being seen as the top Dem Hillary basher is a mistake. He does need to take her on but if he looks too angry doing it, it will minimize him as a candidate.
AdLib 7 days ago
Make him look too calculated and petty. Whoever the candidate is who wants to be the alternative to Hillary, has to be confident and strong against Hillary but more affirmative about a vision than hammering Hillary.
AdLib 7 days ago
I know. I still can’t make up my mind about the Clintons. On one hand, I think they are both very intelligent, clever people. And I do think that they want to serve the public. On the other hand, they are sometimes too clever for their (or the country’s) own good. And, while serving the public, they have enriched themselves very well. Sigh….however, that being said, if Hillary is the Dem candidate, and that looks almost to be a lock-up, then I will support her.
glenn
7 days ago
Hey Murph!
glenn
7 days ago
I’m not ready for Hillary, I expect to have a real primary first and in that pursuit, I’m less inclined to support her because that’s supporting a coronation.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hi Glenn….
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Hey Murph!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hi Ad Lib
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–so who do you think should be in that “real primary’?
glenn
7 days ago
And, Ad, do you think a primary will actually be “real”, or will it be just going through the motions?
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – Who I’d like to see won’t run. Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, hey, I’ll take Al Franken!
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–so you don’t like O’Malley to run?
glenn
7 days ago
Murph–what are your thoughts on this? And…have you committed to the Hillary campaign in your state yet?
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – Sure, I’m fine with O’Malley running, not sure that he has the charisma to beat Hillary as my suggestions might but happy to have him in the race.
AdLib 7 days ago
I can absolutely imagine that if Hillary has a cake walk to the GE, she’s tattooed with “scandals” that the GOP will have better luck sticking to her than stuck to Obama.
AdLib 7 days ago
The Clintons are drama magnets, Obama is no-drama Obama. And in a Presidential election, drama ain’t good.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hello Planeteers!
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Hey Sabreen!
AdLib 7 days ago
Dems badly need a strong alternative to Hillary, to push his/her button in case of a Hillary meltdown.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey Sabreen. How are you tonight?
glenn
7 days ago
Hey, everybody! I’ll be dropping in and out a bit. Busy with ANZAC parades etc.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–I do agree that we need a strong alternative to Hillary. Like you, I think there are too many ways the gop can deflect from the actual issues.
glenn
7 days ago
Imagine a badly wounded Hillary going into the GE against Scott Walker or Jeb Bush. Dems could lose and we’d be in for hell.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey PPO.
glenn
7 days ago
Ad, Its a bit early, dontcha’ think for meltdowns, unless they’re GOP!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
glenn – I’m tired. I participated in a 2 hour spinning class, which was a fundraiser for the American Diabetes Association. I don’t know how long I can hang 
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Cool PPO, glad to have you here while you can be!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey PPO!
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Hey, Sabreen, see you’re busy as well
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–IMO, Dems need to hit hard against Walker’s record in WI. For instance, how his tax breaks have practically bankrupted the state, whereas in neighboring Minnesota, the Dem policies have brought that state forward. With a surplus, no less.
glenn
7 days ago
PPO – I’m getting waaayyyy too old for this.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen–good on ya! And glad to have you here for as long as you can hang!
glenn
7 days ago
ppo – Of course, it’s early but it’s an important reminder at this point that something severe could be uncovered on Hillary or Bill at the beginning of the GE or near election time and end up sabotaging Dem chances. We need a strong primary to shake out everything on Hillary and Bill that can be.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn, all that is needed is for Dems to GOTV in HUGE numbers. By pounding the GOPTP with what they HAVEN’t Achieved in 8 years, that should be enough for any DEM candidate to win
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
glenn – Walker’s polls are nosediving in WI because of all that. I think he’s a lot weaker candidate than the Kochs can imagine.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–I don’t mean to be cynical, or a cheerleader, but do you think there is more to be uncovered? The gop has been trying for years to uncover something on the Clintons–something that will stick, I mean.
glenn
7 days ago
Good point, ad. but maybe if the Kochs et al drop the dirt early, it can be deflected enough by election time
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Sorry, Ad, I meant diluted.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
I’ll like to see a good primary because I don’t like the thought of putting all eggs in one basket. Anything can happen.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
PPO–I agree. Dems need to turn out in huge numbers, because the gop gerrymandering doesn’t work as well in national elections as it does in the state or local elections. PBO’s re-election proved that. That being said, I think Dems also have to convince Independents that progressive policies are better than regressive gop policies. The best way to do that is to showcase the Dem governors whose states are doing much better than states with repub governors.
glenn
7 days ago
ppo – I’d go the opposite route as well, Dems should list all the bills that would pass with a Repb in the WH, from privatizing SS and Medicare to killing Obamacare to increasing pollution and climate change and a SCOTUS that will rule hard right against the non-wealthy and minorities for a generation at least. Those fears are legit and Dems shouldn’t be afraid to hammer them.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn – What could be just as bad as uncovering new issues is just wallpapering her with scandals old and new and just creating a taint about her that’s enough for people to vote Repub just because they don’t want to deal with all the baggage.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn and Ad. Yep. All good points. Now all we need is for the Dems to – for once – unite in the fight. A robust Primary mmight just discover nore than one worthy candidate. Where did President Obama pop up from?
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Sabreen – Completely agree! The Clintons should be the last ones that Dems should put all their hopes on. Anyone who remembers her 2008 run should know exactly why.
AdLib 7 days ago
BRB
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–I agree completely as to Dems highlighting what a repub president would do to the country. I think Hillary should be doing that now. Warren is already doing it in the Senate, which is why so many people want to see her run. I would also like to see other Dem candidates speak to those issues…with facts, figures, charts, and anything else it takes to convince people. Try to stay away from bashing the other candidate personally, and highlight the differences between the issues/policies.
glenn
7 days ago
AdLib – Not to put anything bad out there, but people get sick – especially at Hillary’s age. I just think we need a few backups.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen–Agree as to back ups. Do you agree with Ad as to who those backups should be, or do you have any other candidates in mind?
glenn
7 days ago
Ad–good point about all the baggage.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – I advised in the midterm that Dems should run on national issues, as a team, saying what they will all accomplish for Americans if elected into power and what the Repubs will do if they gain complete power over Congress and the WH. Many voters will kneejerk elect their Congressperson but if they realize their vote is to bring about national impact, that could change things. And I feel confident GOTV will be alive and well for Dems in 2016.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn – O’Malley has gotten on my nerves. But he’s a possibility – just doesn’t have name recognition. This is were I believe the Dems royally blew it. They’ve had 7 years to look for and vet candidates. But to my knowledge they haven’t done it. Once again they’ve sat on their hands. I wouldn’t be surprised if they blame PBO.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
glenn – Yes, I think a candidate who doesn’t attack the individual Repubs but what policies they stand for would be very successful. And facts and figures and simple Ross Perot charts could only help. Get Americnas to understand what’s at stake, what the reality is and the choice is much clearer.
AdLib 7 days ago
Sabreen – Very good point, scandals aside, there could be a health issue or, sorry to say, an accident of some kind that would require someone else to step up and if no one of substance has been campaigning in the primary, Dems would be caught flat footed and unprepeared to win.
AdLib 7 days ago
Sabreen–curious–what has O’Malley done to get on your nerves?
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – It’s the subject that shall not be named 
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen–I agree that Dems have royally blown it as to vetting candidates. What about the Castro brothers from TX from the last Dem convention?
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – I like both Castor brothers. But do you really think the majority of Americans are ready for President Castro?
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen – I don’t know that the Dems as a party actually develop Presidential candidates. Repubs try to do that but even for them, they have a few manufactured ones and many more unaligned ones. Dems struggled for many Presidential elections in the past trying to find Presidential candidates. Consider Mondale, Dukakis, Kerry, all were good men but weak candidates. And the Repub field shows how hard it is to find a good candidate even though they have over 20!
AdLib 7 days ago
Sabreen–I know, President Castro might make the repubs heads explode! And, I really don’t think either one of them is ready, it was just an example. I really like Franken. I watched a clip a while ago where he was at a booksellers’ convention from years ago, and he took on Bill O’Reilly and his lies. He was very calm and collected about it, and like PBO, had facts at his fingertips.
glenn
7 days ago
Franken is smart.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Ad–So the question becomes, why don’t Dems try to develop good candidates?
glenn
7 days ago
I think the Castros hold great potential but they haven’t had the high enough public profile Obama had before running. Remember, Obama had captured Progressive Dems’ imagination as Warren does now. His run would be more like Warren running now. The Castros don’t have that cache yet.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–The Castro brothers and perhaps others we may never have heard of should be just the people the national Dem committee should be developing for the future.
glenn
7 days ago
Sabreen – I think after having a President with the middle name of Hussein, Castro would be a breeze.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn- I think there’s a segment in the Dem Party that is looking for “purity”. If they don’t get 100% of what they want then they don’t want anything. This wing of the Party still hates PBO because they didn’t get their glitter pony. There will never be a candidate who is all things to all people. Dems need to learn that. I think the majority did understand this and elected PBO twice. Maybe that wing is just louder now. But they hate Hillary and want Bernie Sanders, who could never win.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Ad and Sabreen–I would rather have a President Castro than a President Rubio. 
glenn
7 days ago
Sabreen–good points. “Glitter pony” indeed!
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – Rubio can’t win. He’s deluding himself if believes the party of old white men will put him in office.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen – I think those Purist Dems are like Tea Partiers, very loud but a minority of the party. Unlike the TP, they can’t get anyone elected though, they can just bitch and try to dissuade Dems from voting.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–and dissuading Dems from voting plays right into repub hands. Say what you will about them; they do vote!
glenn
7 days ago
AdLib – Dems need to aske themselves why they didn’t have a President for 40 yrs until President Obama.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Rubio looks and sounds like a small child in a man’s body, he doesn’t have the inteligence or gravitas to look Presidential against a solid Dem candidate.
AdLib 7 days ago
Excuse typos. Told you I’m tired.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
glenn – Yep, but I think Purist Dems only have a chance at making any kind of a difference in off year elections. The stakes are too high in Presidential elections and their whining is drowned out by the threat of what Repubs could actually do.
AdLib 7 days ago
Sabreen, I agree with your sentiment but Bill Clinton was the last Dem President, ending his term in 2000.
AdLib 7 days ago
I meant over 40 yrs until Clinton and then Bush (R) again. Either Americans are stupid (there was a poll that said 49% of Americans are stupid) – or Dems are doing something wrong. Or maybe it’s both.
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Ad–the recent midterms prove your point! However, are we going to have a divided government forever? I wouldn’t mind it so much if I could see some good points that repubs have brought up, as they have in the past. I just can’t see myself voting for a repub for a long time until the party itself changes some of its platforms. Especially this religious shit!
glenn
7 days ago
What Dems should remember is the hell they ived through under Reagan, Bush 1 and especially Bush 2! Any Dem would be better than any Repub.
AdLib 7 days ago
Sabreen – I would have to agree that most Americans are ignorant. No necessarily stupid but poorly informed about politics, how democracy works nowadays and prioritizing so they aren’t manipulated on hot button issues to actually vote against their own interests. A real lack of critical thinking…which I remember TX legislators wanted barred from being taught in schools.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–not only Dems should remember that hell(s), but the rest of America as well. But as long as we have a media that will allow repubs to rewrite history to make reagan into a great president, then repubs will continue to win elections–at least on the local and state level. Dems have to work hard to keep them from winnng the presidency until they get rid of their demented (dementia) base!
glenn
7 days ago
Americans have watched (supposedly) how Repubs in Congres have behaved on the past 7 years. They have heard them say they want to voucher Medicare & privatize Social Security; they want to get rid of several Gov’t agenices including EPA (guess they don’t care if they drink dirty water and breath dirty air) but they still put a ton of them in State offices – including here in Maryland. So exactly what does that say about the electorate?
Sabreen60
7 days ago
The good thing is that less people are getting their information from the MSM but the bad thing is that many still are and they are run by corporations that have one main goal that they share with Repubs, making the wealthy (themselves) wealthier at the expense of 99% of Americans.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–It is going to be interesting to see how the media handles this upcoming election. There is some hope. Read an article the other day about how bloggers on the NYT made so many comments about a Koch employee’s editorial that the editorial board had to come out and disclose who the person actually was.
glenn
7 days ago
Well folks, I’m all in. So have a great week and take care. Nite nite!
Sabreen60
7 days ago
Sabreen–I know he has absolutely no chance of winning the gop primary, but some voters are so stupid as to cheer teddy cruz when he says he wants to abolish the IRS. That’s stupidity to the nth degree!
glenn
7 days ago
G’night Sabreen. Get some rest! Hope your week is a great one as well!
glenn
7 days ago
Sabreen – If one was to assume Americans made decisions by weighing what they’ve witnessed in recent years from both party’s actions and positions, then they would seem quite imbecelic. I wonder though if it’s more the case that they are apathetic and don’t care enough to pay attention and remember things as folks here do, they vote based on their habit and they only concentrate on what BS is being thrown about just before the election. I think most Americans are just socially irresponsible more than moronic.
AdLib 7 days ago
Whoops, Sabreen left so quickly! Night Sabreen wherever you are!
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–Agree that most folks vote based on habit. I do think that is changing and more young people are standing up for what they think is best for them, rather than how their parents vote.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – I would like to see Dems make the “ownership” of politicians by billionaires like the Kochs, a bad thing. Americans should be crossing candidates off their list based on whether they are owned by billionaires. That would swiftly cut the legs out from under the billionaires and their spending.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hi. I am here.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–I agree to a point about ownership by billionaires. However, there are many Dems, and I truly believe Hillary is one, that are also owned by billionaires. Citizens United is one of the worst SCOTUS decisions in years, IMO. Another reason I’d like to see Franken try for the primary. He’s been trying to get CU overturned for years.
glenn
7 days ago
Hey Murph–welcome back!
glenn
7 days ago
Hey Murph, what happened?
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn – We should make billionaires radioactive, any pol close to them should be rightly deemed corrupt and that would make candidates have to renounce their allegience to them and taking their money.
AdLib 7 days ago
got called away and then could not connect
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
What is the thinking of our small brain trust re. HRC?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Well, glad you made it back!
AdLib 7 days ago
Or is there some other topic at play
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – I think this week has underlined the importance of a strong Dem primary with viable alternatives. Who knows what real or manufactured scandals will stick to Hillary and if we have no one ready to step in, Repubs will win.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–the thinking is that HRC has too much baggage, and that Dems need to put forward some other candidates. Names being “bandied about” are Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, Al Franken, and O’Malley. Although not many think O’Malley has a chance.
glenn
7 days ago
Murph–who’s your candidate of choice?
glenn
7 days ago
And as Sabreen mentioned, what if Hillary had a health issue or an accident, Dems can’t be left flailing around helplessly for a candidate. A strong alternative is needed.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–kind of another topic–but did you see the quotes I shared with Ad at the beginning of VOX tonight?
glenn
7 days ago
Thanks Ad and Glenn…..here is my problem….none of the “others” has the backing (money, organization, shakers and movers) and only Warren seems to have the potential to attract it. AND she is so out that even her faithful are having doubts.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Glenn I will look at the quotes.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Obama was unimaginable as a candidate at this point in the 2008 race, everyone knew it would be Hillary.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–so why can’t any of the “others” put up a strong voice in the primaries so that will get the backing? Isn’t that what PBO did in his primary?
glenn
7 days ago
Ad–great minds think alike! LOL
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – I believe that someone can indeed rise up this time around. We just don’t know who that will be.
AdLib 7 days ago
Indeed!
AdLib 7 days ago
But Obama had name and face recognition, he had the the tag of “up and coming”, and he had an enthusiastic but small core, AND he wanted it…..
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Who is the Obama now? Even in 2006, Obama had energy.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph–perhaps we have to “develop” the “new” Obama. There is still time and it’s still better than just, as Ad says, having a “coronation” with Hillary.
glenn
7 days ago
Murph – I don’t think we’ll have another Obama, it will have to be a different type of person who captures the Dems’ confidence. Obama’s path was a fantastic path but few Presidents have come along like him before.
AdLib 7 days ago
Obama and his people were doing the work on his nomination long before 2006…..the plan was make a name in 2008 and go for the gusto in 2012 with a challenge to incumbent HRC and then win it in 2016
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad and Murph–As usual, I love hearing your opinions. However, tomorrow is an early soccer game, so I have to say g’night now. Murph and Ad, I will be interested to read the rest of your conversation tomorrow. Take care and have a great weekend and week!
glenn
7 days ago
ad…I keep looking at the small, small field and no one pops up
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Glenn, understand…happy soccer “mommery”
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Many pols plan their Presidential run and 99% fail. There is an aspect to being the right person at the right time. After 8 years of Bush, the majority wanted someone young, someone who offered hope and a chance for bipartisanship. And, they were tired of war. That was the real issue that Hillary handed to Obama and allowed him to take her on, she voted for the iraq authorization for war and Obama didn’t. Take that one issue away from Obama and I think Hillary wins the Dem primary in 2008.
AdLib 7 days ago
So what is THE issue this time around and who can run with it? The plutocracy. Warren. And she seems dead set against even considering a run.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Whoops, glenn left before I could say it but I’ll say it anyway, have a great weekend!
AdLib 7 days ago
A bit too frantic here today to contribute , so I’ll sign off and see you all next week.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Sorry PPO…..hope things calm down.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph, nothing too wild, just quite busy. Byeee
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Warren isn’t running, this isn’t the right time for her, to oppose Hillary in a primary. To destructive and divisive and she knows that. So who could it be? That’s a good question. My only answer is that nature abhors a vacuum. Remember in 1992, when Bush 1 had a 91% approval rating after the first Iraq War, no likely Dem candidates would run and there was this unknown, small southern state Governor who saw that as opportunity and jumped in. And he became President as his wife is trying to be.
AdLib 7 days ago
“too” destructive, that is.
AdLib 7 days ago
Maybe O’Malley can catch on. Maybe it will be someone else but there will be other candidates in the primary and once they’re on the same stage as Hillary and debating her, they will be seen as a peer and whoever does best will be seen as a solid alternative.
AdLib 7 days ago
Clinton was the head of the the DGA and he was also head of the new Dem Leadership Council…..
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
By the time the debates are on, catching up on money will be well nigh impossible.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Yep but Obama didn’t have anything like that on his resume.
AdLib 7 days ago
A first term Senator who made a memorable national speech, those were Obama’s only credentials to a nation that didn’t know him well and was ready to elect Hillary.
AdLib 7 days ago
No Obama only had his reputation from the DNC speech, a respectable performance in the Senate, and a lot of Dem insiders (many of the Kennedy clan) who really wanted him to run.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – He was only a first termer in the Senate, he didn’t have a lot of accomplishments and polls back then show he was a virtual unknown to most Americans (though many of us would never forget him after his DNC speech).
AdLib 7 days ago
I was in backwater SC at the time and yes it was all hillary and edwards but Obama was next….and no one else
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Voters have to know the candidates and vote for them instead of others. Obama was well liked by Prog Dem insiders but I remember very clearly that Hillary was ahead of him and the rest of the Dem primary pack in December 2007 by a huge margin.
AdLib 7 days ago
Obama had four things going for him- a natural constituency, a strong vision, skillful oratory, and those insiders. When Hillary did not score a knockout early and wen Edwards ran into personal life scandals….Obama was a quick “What about Barack” choice.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Here’s a blast from the past: “Clinton’s lead over Obama has expanded to nearly 30 points in Gallup’s latest poll, conducted Oct. 12-14: 50% vs. 21%.”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/102277/Gallup-Election-Review-October-2007.aspx
Gallup Election Review: October 2007
Hillary Clinton remains the heavy favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination, while Rudy Giuliani is somewhat less secure in his status as the Republican front-runner. The political environment continues to favor the Democrats in 2008, but Clinton has at best just a small lead over Giuliani in general election preference polls.
Gallup Election Review: October 2007 Hillary Clinton remains the heavy favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination, while Rudy Giuliani is somewhat less secure in his status as the Republican front-runner. The political environment continues to favor the Democrats in 2008, but Clinton has at best just a small lead over Giuliani in general election preference polls.
AdLib 7 days ago
Yes, the poll tells a tale.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I have been watching the right wing crowd push O’Malley in the last few days…..why? I think he is not a top of the ticket guy…..solid admin, good ideas, but very little presence and no pzzzazzzz.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
and of course, where is biden
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Obama needed several things to happen to open his path to the nom. One was Hillary’s sense of entitlement which allowed him to grab Iowa while she bathed in her hubris. Edwards blowing up was also necessary, he was pulling many of Obama’s voters away and keeping him far back. A number of other things including Bill’s going mental and racist and Hillary getting all royal and claiming she would go around the elections and win with Superdelagates.
AdLib 7 days ago
I agree to all of that but Obama had to be in place for any of that to matter.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Exactly! That’s my point, the times make the man or woman and if someone who may not be at the top of our list right now jumps in, smart enough to know that as long as they are there, they have a chance to be the right person at the right time, that can happen.
AdLib 7 days ago
But Obama was on stage when all of that happened…he had been there for a while…..who is on stage now?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Clinton and Obama, our last two dem Presidents were both nationally unknown underdogs when they jumped in their races.
AdLib 7 days ago
Well….we will see…I think the GOP has their game plan in place…..e-mailgate, benghazigate, clintonglobalinitiativegate…..so they are going to keep at it.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
As sad as it is to say, I don’t think that most Americans knew who Obama was back in 2007. Only because he ran, did people get introduced to him. That’s how it would have to be for an underdog candidate this time around.
AdLib 7 days ago
Obama had a core in 2007 and when events transpired to push him forward he was compelling, but he always was. He had a great story. He had a ready to move constituency and there were big backers ready to push him.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
It’s interesting to project how that will end up for them. Will it end up as Clinton Fatigue or Republicans Whipping Up Scandals Fatigue. It’s actually a very easy answer for Hillary, let them be hateful and negative, if she counters with what she will do that’s positive and what they would do that’s negative, I think they’ll begin to look like the nasty haters they are and even though it’s Hillary, they will be seen as men bullying a woman to keep a woman from becoming President.
AdLib 7 days ago
That is the right road I think….but it means that the Dems are going to have to agree not to join the lynch party. How can someone contending against her do that?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I agree that Obama had many supporters but it was a fraction of the supporters and money that Hillary had behind her. Obama wouldn’t have won on that, he needed the strategy of going after the caucuses as he did, the turns of Fate that aided him (remember when the Rev Wright thing came out and Hillary and the Repubs were bashing him on it, it gave him the opportunity to make his speech on race which turned things around for him…he was almost knocked out at that time. The turn of events had a lot to do with his win.
AdLib 7 days ago
O’Malley is already going down that road to try and be her main opponent.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hillary had huge advantages but they slipped as Obama moved into the space vacated by Edwards and when African American basis ignited. I look behind Hillary right now and I wonder if there is anyone there who could take advantage of such a slide? Only Warren…..
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I think O’Malley sees himself as VP….
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
That’s the thing about elections, they’re like sharply winding roads, you can never see what’s coming around the corner, usually the unexpected, and how it can change the fate of candidates. Knowing history, Dems need to be prepared for something knocking Hillary off her pedestal.
AdLib 7 days ago
One of my Obama campaign friends who was in charge of GOTV in five states and is now working for the HRC campaign tells me that Dem leaders are saying that there has to be a united front working for the next two years to secure the WH, take back the Senate, and weaken the GOP in the House while whittling down Dem dominance in the States…..
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Er…so does united front mean they oppose a healthy primary? That kind of thinking doomed Dems in the past. I do agree with solidarity but it can’t be manufactured, a leader has to encourage it and coronating Hillary won’t make that happen.
AdLib 7 days ago
She says that there is the realization that the GOP has placed their party (with the sponsorship/control of the plutocrats) into a position that could easily ignore the numbers in the population because after 2016 they will have rigged the entire system (with a move on the electoral college for 2020 as another example).
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
If there was the raw material for a dynamic, health primary…..I agree. I do not see it.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
An unhealthy primary may be no competition. But just as unhealthy will be one where Dems take on a GOP voice, where money is pissed away and where party unity around key themes shreds.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
That’s quite a doom and gloom scenario, I don’t buy it all but I know that this is what the plutocrats and Repubs would love to be the case and they’re working for it. That will not however convince Dems to oppose democracy in their primary, just the opposite.
AdLib 7 days ago
A monster factor is the monster money and I see its power…I saw it work its power in Il. and that state now has a Gov who is working to destroy the unions there and he is using money to pull Dems off of the pile in the assembly.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
one final thing that tweaked my funny bone. Bruce Jenner has come out…………………….as a Conservative! Oh, and as a transgender person. Imagine the GOPTP heads exploding at that little titbit!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO….Jenner is just one strange dude.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – that whole family!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
No question, the huge gobs of money will play a big role but GOTV for Dems is a counterweight…as is portraying the Billionaires and their pet pols for what they really are, enemies of democracy and the majority.
AdLib 7 days ago
Poor Bruce Jenner…he just can’t seem to figure out which way he should turn.
AdLib 7 days ago
The Dems GOTV efforts have fallen apart. We saw that in the loss of the senate, and more importantly, the governors races….why? The core of GOTV has been the unions and they are now back benchers….minority groups filled in for Obama and women could be the same for Hillary, but for any of the others in the queue for the Dems?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Instead of also opposing democracy (in their primary), Dems really should focus a campaign on exposing the evil of the Billionaire Class and how they are using their money and pet monkeys (Repub candidates) to take over our democracy. That would be a campaign that paid dividends for the Dems. Trying to squelch competition against Hillary though will be self-destructive, alienating many Dems including me.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad….if there was a voice to lead that campaign, I would be all for it. Who is that?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – That’s not the case. Dems don’t win off year elections, to say that’s reflective of what turn out will be in 2016 isn’t accurate. Dems lost hugely in 2010 and Obama won decisively in 2012. That’s the pattern that repeats itself.
AdLib 7 days ago
Obama won in 2012 and how did the Dems do in the states that year…not well at all…..that was the year the number of GOP state assemblies moved into the majority. It also set the stage for the loss of the Senate in 2014. Obama remains a positive blip but I know the Party Core in Illinois and Wi and it is hollow.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
We’ll have to wait, Hillary only announced less than a week ago.
AdLib 7 days ago
The core of my concern is a weakened Dem Party nationwide.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
A positive blip? Dems won 1 million more votes than Repubs in the House but due to gerrymandering, Repubs only lost a few seats…but they did lose seats.
AdLib 7 days ago
Yep…a blip…hooray for the reelection….and a one million plus vote for the Dems keeps the GOP in the House…..the system will be in play in 2016 and 2018 and 2020. Redistriciting will not have any impact until 2022….
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
State elections are all over the place, Repubs have poisoned the well in many ways but Governors are elected directly by voters and that can change the party. As for legislatures, the blue states are pretty solid in reflecting their population, red states aren’t and some purple states aren’t. It is a long haul fight but we don’t want to end up in a situation where the operation is successful but the patient (democracy) died.
AdLib 7 days ago
Well…this has been intirguing….but I have a long day ahead and need to withdraw….Until next week.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I don’t understand your point. In 2010, Repubs control of redistricting meant we’d have 10 years of their overrepresentation and Dems’ underrepresentation. That doesn’t make 2012 a blip anymore than 2008 was a blip. It just means that until at least 2022, that’s the way the game is slanted, Dems have to super-overachieve just to get power in the House. But…they can still win the Presidency and the Senate as always.
AdLib 7 days ago
Have a great weekend, see you then!
AdLib 7 days ago
I will reply to your query later.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Sounds good!
AdLib 7 days ago
Still here….?
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/25/cokie-roberts/have-democrats-lost-900-seats-state-legislatures-o/
Have Democrats lost 900 seats in state legislatures since Obama has been president?
If President Barack Obama’s plan to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for middle-class tax cuts and programs won’t go anywhere in the new Republican Congress, why did Obama even spend time discussing it during last week’s State of the Union?
Have Democrats lost 900 seats in state legislatures since Obama has been president?If President Barack Obama’s plan to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for middle-class tax cuts and programs won’t go anywhere in the new Republican Congress, why did Obama even spend time discussing it during last week’s State of the Union?
Categories: Vox Populi Archives
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