children borders

Suddenly unaccompanied children are pouring across the border from Mexico. They are not all from Mexico but from Honduras and other Central American countries.

Do you believe children are doing this on their own? Can children find their way hundreds of miles North with no help from adults? Where do we start to end the crossings? Can we just turn children back? How old are these children?   How can we assure that these children are vaccinated and free of infectious diseases? What is the ethical thing to do with these children?

What about the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border? Why do we allow them to do this? Why don’t we secure the border? Why not use the military and all their expertise and equipment to keep the cartels and children from pouring into our country?

I know , more questions than answers.  I have to wonder if the parents of these children are being responsible sending them out on their own?  Could it be that the people in the Central American countries need to have contraception? If they can’t care for the children, maybe they should not have them. So many questions and few if any answers.

Lets talk about it and see if we can brainstorm some ideas for the politicians to use since they do nothing, maybe we can give them a solution to implement.

As always lets be civil because these are important issues.

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Kalima
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monicaangela
Member

One thing the people of this nation and and those who control our government are not good at is connecting the dots and then accepting the results after the dots have been connected. We like to just enrich the wealthy of this country by throwing money at any situation…money from the taxpayer that of course, using this method finds its way back into the pockets of politicians and the wealthy.

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SueInCa
Member

A California mayor who inspired residents to protest and turn away busses full of immigrant women and children said on Thursday that he was worried that coverage of the angry demonstrations were stereotyping his town.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/anti-immigrant-mayor-worries-his-town?utm_source=Crooks+and+Liars+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=f2cd4a6311-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d4904be7bc-f2cd4a6311-326964165

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kesmarn
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The irony — of wanting to be hateful and wanting to be loved at the same time. Incredible isn’t it, Sue?

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sillylittleme
Member

They really don’t understand that every negative action has an equal and vocal reaction to all of that negativity. When will they ever learn that we are not supposed to be a country of xenophobes. Especially when it comes to children in need. Likely these are the same people who claim to be pro-life but only as it applies to a blastocyst.

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SueInCa
Member

Bingo slm. I am so sick of the hatred, the rage, the refusal to see the truth. I never thought I would seriously contemplate leaving this country but with the news this week, I am afraid that the religious right is closer than ever to a theocratic take over of this country, especially when I hear trolls talking about civil war or coups and know about the right wing infiltration of our armed forces.

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sillylittleme
Member

Actually, I want to allay your fears re: the armed forces. While they may think they have a majority, Hagel would happily try them all before we even got close to a smell of a civil war or coup. And there are plenty of vets and active duty that realize that the President that got us into the quagmires of Iraq and Afghanistan is not the current President.

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SueInCa
Member

Thanks SLM I have gotten in to the weeds with research on these people and sometimes my imagination takes flight. I am sure you are right. I think they think they have more power than they do.

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SallyT
Member

@Kes, now that I can agree with! But, I seem to do that a lot where you are concern.

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kesmarn
Admin

Sally, I’m beginning to think that “Libertarian” is now code for “Fascist.”

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SallyT
Member

I was watching this discussion on some show and they ask this former serviceman that is involved in the VA investigations why most service people vote Republican when they are who got them into the war. His answer was that most aren’t Republican anymore but are Libertarian now. Geesh! That is suppose to make me feel better!

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SueInCa
Member

Bush signed a law in 2008 that guarantees these kids asylum if they touch ground in the United States. This is not anything new, it is a rush of children coming through but not anything new. These kids have been riding the “death trains” for years and years. They are mostly from Central America, not Mexico.

Adults are coming on those trains as well but they are not under the same jurisdiction as the children. I love all these pundits and politicians who do not even know the law themselves.

Current did a documentary on this a few years ago and AJA just did another. It does not matter at all what we think, Bush opened the door for them.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/analysis-whats-the-real-reason-behind-central-american-immigrant-wave-u-s-law/

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kesmarn
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Sue, this is such valuable info. Thanks so much for posting it. Sherlock is on the case, as usual!

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SallyT
Member

I forgot about that, Sherlock. Thank you for reminding me. Of course, Bush and his family and rich friends are buying up the land down there to get the water and the water rights. They know that is going to be a hot commodity in the very near future. The problems down there, well, I am sure we have had a hand in the making through the CIA or Corp or whatever. We reap what we sow. We reaped trouble and now we have it.

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kesmarn
Admin

Bush and his cronies are going to have to move “Academi” (Blackwater) down there with them, if they plan on living there, Sally!

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SallyT
Member

They’ll just send in their thugs, Kes. It is the control but they aren’t going to be the ones to get their hands dirty. Besides, Bush won’t leave his air conditioned bathroom! His water colors might melt.

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kesmarn
Admin

😆 Sally, you never fail to make me laugh! Especially when I need it the most.

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SallyT
Member

Then I hope I am always there for you, Kes! 🙂

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SueInCa
Member

Of course the US has had a hand in the troubles in Central America. I find it ironic that the bigots that met the bus in Murietta are not even aware that these kids are all legal now. If their brains were as good as their hate, they would be geniuses.

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kesmarn
Admin

And of course their sadly misspelled and hateful signs give the real picture of their mentality.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

I have been reading along since Nirek first published this post. I have considered this issue for a very long time and

What needs to be done?

1) A humanitarian response to the plight of those who have come to the U.S. believing that the country is an open refuge.
– Care for their physical needs with compassion and generosity,
– processing their cases through enhanced immigration courts with additional judges according to the law now in place,
– providing asylum as appropriate.

2) Fix our immigration laws.
– to provide a path for those already here to have their status legalized
– to provide a path to citizenship for the eligible

3) Close the two doors that draw most of the undocumented:
– access to employment by employers who benefit from cheap labor that is easily exploited.
– access to public services by the undocumented that makes staying in the U.S. both possible and enticing even without work.
To accomplish this we need a secure national identification system lined to the Social Security Administration with e-verify required for ALL employment and very heavy penalties for those who hire without and for all seeking access to all but emergency public services. And yes, this includes access to schools, to primary medical care etc. This is hard but necessary.

4) Information campaigns and clarity. Wide spread, and constant dissemination of these standards with an emphasis on info campaigns in countries that are the principal points of origin for the undocumented.

5) Immediate return to the point of origin of all without documentation. And yes, this too is hard, but necessary.

AND THE FOUNDATION FOR ALL OF THIS IS THE REMOVAL OF THE ENTIRE ISSUE FROM POLITICAL GAMESMANSHIP.

For both the Democrats and Republicans the immigration question plays their bases for fools. All are pawns.

For Democrats, the issue appeals to their growing Hispanic bases and to the left in all its forms.

For Republicans, the issue appeals to its Nativists and the right in all its forms.

Enough already.

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SueInCa
Member

Murph
You cannot return these children, according to the law Bush signed is it the same as “wet feet/dryfeet” for Cubans. The law only applies to children in this case but my guess is ICE has been lax on dealing with the kids and now it is a crisis. I really doubt all these children came over at once. The path they have to take is far too arduous to allow that many to flood in at one time unless they all waited at the border to cross over en masse.

It is a tough situation but we have to deal with it now and Sillylittleme actually had some good ideas on how to treat them.

The adults it is business as usual, deport them in most cases, where there are children involved though, that is a much tougher conundrum. Perhaps if they have family here willing to sponsor them, let them stay.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

I not deciding what to do with these kid except to follow the law, and the regular order precedence has established.

Just as with the undocumented who are here in residence now, these kids will be covered by whatever accommodation is made in the short and midterm.

Points 2 to 5 address the mid to long term situation.

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sillylittleme
Member

Thanks Sue. If you read some of the comments, I was here by myself wondering what the anger was about. And the stubbornness regarding getting the out of the country. Too much cruelty for me to handle…

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SueInCa
Member

Same here slm, especially in light of the law Bush signed. I am surprised at the anger too but perhaps others did not know about the law? If you get a chance, try catching On The Border on AJA, or I think it is called “death Trains” put out by Current a few years ago. They show that this is not a Mexican problem, except for the fact that Mexico does not stop them. But why would they? Bush gave them a ticket to the US. Mexico is not going to take on an immigration issue that we caused anyway. And this is not a NEW problem. Like I told Murph, ICE was probably lax in dealing with the issue. After all, look at the VA.

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sillylittleme
Member

Or the sheer volume coupled with austerity has destroyed every agencies’ ability to function. Gotta love the teabaggers screaming for smaller government, then when they get it, screaming that nothing is getting done.

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SueInCa
Member

I said somewhere here if their brains were as solid as their hatred, they would be geniuses.

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kesmarn
Admin

Friends, I just can’t imagine being the person who stands in the schoolhouse door and says no to a kindergartener.

I can’t imagine being the doctor who sees a pregnant woman in need of prenatal care and says no.

Yes, we do need to work on immigration reform. But not at the expense of our own humanity.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

I await your “practical” responses for that is what we need. As long as we continue to have jobs (no matter how bad), and provide services (no matter how basic) we create the conditions that attract the undocumented (often with the urging of their own governments who regard El Norte as a safety valve and criminal enterprise that benefits from providing transport across the U.S. Border).

I lived in Europe for a number of years and the same hard choices I suggest here were made by the members of EU many years past.

Your personalization of the matter is understandable but it does not provide a channel for movement forward. So, what is that you suggest?

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monicaangela
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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

Very interesting story about the Swiss- especially as the analysis of the vote shows that the anti-immigrant reaction is rooted in conservation and nationalist groups…just like here.

The analysis of cultural assimilation in Europe is of particular value- in the sense that it does not seem to be our issue to the same degree.

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SueInCa
Member

Murph the Italian government is now not documenting refugees that are coming in according to the rules of the EU, so no program is foolproof.

Please refer to the law that Bush signed, these kids are now legal, according to that law.

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kesmarn
Admin

Murph, the White House has put out some good info on ideas for dealing with the immigration situation in order to fix the system. The description of the program(s) proposed are too lengthy to copy and paste here, but can be found at this link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/immigration

There’s also another good resource that debunks a lot of the misinformation coming from the right about this situation. It’s from the Sisters of Mercy who have “boots on the ground” (and have had for decades) in Central America.

http://www.sistersofmercy.org/files/documents/resources/Justice/6.23.14-Backgrounder-Unaccompanied-Migrant-Children.pdf

I don’t think anyone on the right or the left would say we have a wonderful immigration system and it couldn’t possibly be improved.

But I will say — straight up — that there is no way I would ever advocate denying children who are already here medical care, food, clothing, shelter or education. In fact, to be totally candid — I think that is brutal. And whether or not it’s considered “practical” to take care of them is something I could hardly possibly care less about.

If this country can afford unwanted and unneeded military planes, if it can bail out crooked bankers, if corporations can stash $21 trillion dollars in offshore accounts and not be held accountable, we can take care of 70,000 children.

They are here. They are real humans. And they deserve better from a country that gets all weepy about calling itself “A Shining City on a Hill.”

It is American economic habits and American personal habits that have had a large hand in turning Mexico and Central America into some of the most violent places on earth.

So– here are several “practical things” we can do right away.

American men can stop using prostitutes that are the result of human trafficking.

Americans can stop drugging themselves 24/7 because life is just too dreadful for them to endure without heroin and other substances, the sale of which funds these violent gangs that these kids are trying to get a away from.

And American corporations can stop paying starvation wages when they outsource jobs down there.

Truth be told — although this is not a popular thing to say — the solution to a lot of this problem can be laid at the doorstep of one demographic: white, American males.

It’s time to stop making women and children the ones who have to pay for their sins.

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kesmarn
Admin

Murph, with all due respect, why are “hard” choices that involve requiring ethical behavior by (largely) white American males considered “not realistic,” while “hard choices” that involve denying medical care and schooling to helpless people — including children — “realistic”? That sounds highly subjective to me.

What I proposed (and Sue affirmed) is simply applying economic principles to this situation. Dry up the market for a “product,” and the producers and transporters of that product are economically starved to death. I would think any conservative would recognize and applaud that approach. So when no one buys that heroin or uses those prostitutes, the gangs and drug lords who fuel this problem are in trouble.

And forcing American companies who outsource jobs to Central American countries to pay a living wage is equally based in economic principles. When you can make a living at home, why migrate?

So this isn’t all “girly emotional stuff” (not that you used those words but some other conservatives do). This is rooted in solid economic cause and effect.

Paul Ryan also uses the term “hard choices.” Maggie Thatcher did too. But I never see Paul Ryan asking multi-billionaires to do anything “hard.” Ever. Economic discipline is great. I don’t think anyone would want to live in a society without it. But maybe it’s time to “redistribute the pain” a bit.

When you want to get rid of a weed, you don’t just pull off the top leaves, you yank it up by the roots. And the roots of this migration are drugs, poverty, prostitution and violence.

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kesmarn
Admin

Murph, for starters: The message to corporations should be: you outsource jobs at starvation wages? When you bring those products back into the country there is a massive tariff on them. I mean huge. That money can be spent on improved, streamlined court systems to handle these immigration cases.

You’re caught with an underage Honduran prostitute? Your name is published in large print in the local paper and you will need to register as a pedophile sex offender for the rest of your life. No exceptions. If you happen to be president of the local bank, so be it. And there should be massive fines in these cases too — both for the pimps and for the johns. That’s a hard choice, but a more just one.

The funds collected from the above programs can also be used for inpatient drug treatment. You’re caught with “user amounts” of drugs, you go into inpatient treatment, court ordered. Yes, even if you are the president of the PTA. If you’re a dealer, you go to prison.

What I’m not hearing from the right are the “hows” of what is to be done when you have children that have been turned away from the schoolhouse door. What does a country do with uneducated children, whose cases may drag out in the court system for long periods? We need the “practical” answers for that. And what do you do with sick refugees when the “hard” choice is that you deny them medical care in the name of practicality? I would venture to say that it is not the high-minded or the bleeding hearts that haven’t thought things though. It is the right that hasn’t thought through the ramifications of what the policies they’re proposing will result in. Nor the logistics of dealing with a group of people who have suffered from poor health care and no education due to our choices. As Choicelady has said many times: people will not simply roll over and die. They will do what they have to do to survive. It will be to our shame if we treat them like stray animals who shouldn’t be given anything, lest they stick around too long.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

I AGREE WITH YOU..I just do not think that what you are proposing has any chance, any chance at all of happening AND there are those who love it, absolutely love it, when the high minded and wonderfully principled not themselves in proposing the impossible because they know it saps them of all resource eventually.

You are a reformer and so am I but I regard any proposal that begins with the kind of fundamental change you lay out…I ask…HOW? How does it get proposed, by who, into what venue and then how does it move forward.

I agree with the what and the why, but the How stops me dead.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

Your solution is that we reform America from the DOD to corporate culture to political payoffs and American habits of consumption….

if that is your plan….

well, I understand it. I even empathize with it but it is not real and it’s realism that is needed right now.

Bottom line- can the U.S. absorb an unremitting flow of the undocumented whether they be 8 months or 80.

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SallyT
Member

Well, Murph, I have always said you are a smart man and never more than when you are agreeing with me! 😉

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SallyT
Member

Wow Murph, down boy! This response is to yours to me down below. I am not missing your point. I am making another one. The reason illegal immigrants are used here is because of industrial farming/corporate can hire them for less. That is just one example. And, because of all that money in lobbying, the republicans are not really against illegal immigrants, as long as they can be used.
I am also concerned about placing these children because there are some pretty sick people in this country that enslave and hold captive. Much background checking needed. Also, as I said earlier, why would you send your child here with all the school shootings and shooting as a whole. Now, I know we aren’t as bad as where they are coming from but still. Maybe we should erect big screen TV’s and with subtitles show them the news here. They might change their minds a little.
And, I have to agree with Kes that we need to pull this out at the roots. American greed is at the source, whether its drugs, sex or rock n’roll wages! Pull it out….wait, that could be taken another way……you get my point, I hope. Murph, your point was made. I just had something to add and someone to agree with.

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kesmarn
Admin

Murph, see my response directly above your comment. Thanks!

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SueInCa
Member

Murph answering your comment below. I think the point is that if men were not dealing in trafficking sex and if americans were not shoving dope in their bodies, these gangs would have to look somewhere else to dump their lawless activities. People in the latin countries are well aware of our war on drugs and it’s utter failure.

Besides it is all moot now since George Bush allowed this kind of crisis to manifest itself.

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SueInCa
Member

Have to agree with you Kes.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

I agree with the sentiment but I do not agree that this perspective takes us anywhere real.

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SallyT
Member

Kes, you pretty much cover it. Murph, I don’t see jobs as the problem with these children. They are not coming for jobs and are too young to work. If that were the case, they have a better chance for work where they are because our corporations loved to hire them for pennies an hour down there. And, they don’t care how young they are. Heck they are trying to change hiring the young here in hopes of cutting wages even further.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

Hey Sally-the conversation is getting very confusing…so I will do my best using the most wicked of practices in blogworld- ALL CAPS.

Here is your comment and MY RESPONSES….

“Wow Murph, down boy! I AM NOT INCENSED/EXCITED/ ABOUT THIS….I HAVE JUST BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD SO MANY TIMES THAT I KNOW THAT THE BASE POSITIONS FROM THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT ARE DETOURS THAT KEEP US FROM EVEN PROPOSING EFFECTIVE AND REALISTIC RESPONSES TO THE PROBLEM.

This response is to yours to me down below. I am not missing your point. I am making another one. The reason illegal immigrants are used here is because of industrial farming/corporate can hire them for less. AND I AGREE THAT THIS IS SO AND ADD THAT THEY CAN HIRE THEM TO WORK UNDER CONDITIONS THAT VIOLATE ALL KINDS OF STANDARDS AND THEY DARE NOT COMPLAIN. MORE WORK FOR LESS MONEY IN NASTY CONDITIONS. BARGAINQ That is just one example. And, because of all that money in lobbying, the republicans are not really against illegal immigrants, as long as they can be used. YES, THIS IS ALSO TRUE. LOOK AT HOW MUCH UNDOCUMENTED LABOR IS EMPLOYED BY THE MARRIOT BROTHERS FOR EXAMPLE.
I am also concerned about placing these children because there are some pretty sick people in this country that enslave and hold captive. YES. WHICH IS WHY I WANT THE IMMIGRATION COURTS AND SOCIAL SERVICES OFFICES EXPANDED TO MEET THIS NEED. Much background checking needed. Also, as I said earlier, why would you send your child here with all the school shootings and shooting as a whole. BECAUSE IT REALLY IS MUCH BETTER HER THAN THERE. Now, I know we aren’t as bad as where they are coming from but still. Maybe we should erect big screen TV’s and with subtitles show them the news here. They might change their minds a little.
And, I have to agree with Kes that we need to pull this out at the roots. HERE IS THE TROUBLE. I AGREE IN PRINCIPLE BUT HOW, HOW, HOW…..?American greed is at the source, whether its drugs, sex or rock n’roll wages! Pull it out….wait, that could be taken another way……you get my point, I hope. Murph, your point was made. I just had something to add and someone to agree with. WE ACTUALLY AGREE UP AND DOWN THE LINE.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

Missing my point. I do not suggest that these kids are seeking work but the broader issue is very much about that and the other draws I list.

I get that this is a very emotional issue and I do not suggest that these kids are anything more than pawns being used by the GOP, by Dems, by gangs, by coyotes, by the governments of the country from which they are fleeing….

Bottom line- the situation is not supportable and my outline is broader than the current crisis.

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kesmarn
Admin

Well said, Sally and Sue. Too often the “hard choices” of the right are only “hard” for poor women and children. They never seem to do anything that’s “hard” on themselves. Funny how that happens, no?

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SallyT
Member

Well, if they did have TV or internet, Sue, they would know that the United States might not be the place to send your children. With all the school shootings and just people shootings that we are experiencing (and our police or no better at picking the good guys from the bad either) we are not all that safe. And, with the inequity spreading further and further, and our Congress wanting to cut more of those so called “free lunches” and “handouts” but nothing that affects them, we are heading for more trouble right here in River City!

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SueInCa
Member

Sally you are right, this is not about jobs. Quite frankly the people who are sending these kids here still believe that America is full of compassionate people. They have no internet, no television, they live in homes we would not even ask farm animals to live in, they have no idea how much America has turned in to a nation of bigots and haters.

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cyndibru
Member
cyndibru

Excellent plan, Murph. It is realistic and includes compromises for both political sides of the aisle. I’ll be interested to see if others of your political persuasion agree that some “hard” but necessary things must be done to ever solve this problem.

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MurphTheSurf3
Editor

Not much discussion yet. I think I will craft a full sized post and see what comes of it.

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EXFANOFARIANA
Member
EXFANOFARIANA

They will never take the pill, my friend for the Catholic church takes advantage of them and their illiteracy to impose more and more restrictions on birth control. Every pregnancy is a “blessing” for them.And remember men can have hundreds of children/year….I was reading last week the planet has reached over 55 MILLION refugees ….way higher number than after WWI and WWII. The demo graphical explosion will lead, I believe, to a new war for simply put the planet CANNOT feed this mass nor does it have the resources for it.China is buying Africa out, through their immoral dictators all the water they have.Same for large lengths of land to grant the sowing of the seeds which will feed them in the future….Loved your post.Will certainly spread it.

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monicaangela
Member

@sillylittleme,

I wrote: “True, but that is no excuse for those who vote in elections today, they have the same access to information the children do. I am one of those who had to rely on the press and the library back in my day, and to this day I am still doing the same thing when it comes to the library, the press…not so much. :)”

Here is your reply to my comment:

“Not everyone is computer literate and to assume that isn’t rational. Also many people can’t afford the luxury of a computer and on-line service. Please update your empathy chip, it seems to be on the fritz.”

My empathy chip? You can’t be serious…Empathy for someone who doesn’t take the time to try to learn has never been one of my strong suits. Empathy for someone who will not go to the library to use a computer if they don’t have access in their home…no, I don’t have any for that person, because I see many, many adults and children on a daily basis going to the library to do just that, many of them who live in what some would consider abject poverty, but even they take the time to try to familiarize themselves with technology and do look for ways to access the computer. A citizen that has an opportunity to vote, also has a responsibility to seek out information that will help him/her cast that vote.

I volunteer with the people you seem to be so eager to classify as those who don’t have access everyday, and believe me they don’t feel as you do, well at least not the ones who have a little get up and go about themselves and seek an education.

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sillylittleme
Member

The people who you help are willing and interested. There are too many people in this country that feel beat up by the system. They have no interest in being interested. They are for the most part, just defeated. Now if you can reach out to them, that would be a real coup. Not everyone understands or is concerned with politics. It doesn’t mean they should be ignored or mocked. Not everyone thinks alike.

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monicaangela
Member

I honestly believe you have somewhere along the line misunderstood something I wrote…I do not mock or ignore anyone that fits the description you just presented. The people I volunteer to work with are interested after they understand why they need to concern themselves with technology and politics, that is part of the reason I volunteer to work with them. Lack of interest and depression that causes one to feel defeated is no excuse either, that IMHO is a part of the problem and the reason I have no empathy for someone who has the opportunity to educate themselves or seek help with managing their feelings but would rather not for whatever reason, is not someone who deserves empathy IMHO.

“You may encounter many defeats, but you must not be defeated. In fact, it may be necessary to encounter the defeats, so you can know who you are, what you can rise from, how you can still come out of it.”

~~~~~~~~Maya Angelou quotes (American Poet, b.1928)

You may continue to feel sorry for and apologize for those who don’t have the interest in themselves or their plight, for those who feel defeated if you want, but I will never let them down by counting them out or sympathizing with them when they give up. I believe that a quote I once read expressed by Napoleon Bonaparte expresses it best:

“Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.”

~~~~~~~~~~~Napoleon Bonaparte

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sillylittleme
Member

I honestly believe you didn’t read what you wrote: “Empathy for someone who doesn’t take the time to try to learn has never been one of my strong suits. Empathy for someone who will not go to the library to use a computer if they don’t have access in their home…no, I don’t have any for that person, because I see many, many adults and children on a daily basis going to the library to do just that, many of them who live in what some would consider abject poverty, but even they take the time to try to familiarize themselves with technology and do look for ways to access the computer. A citizen that has an opportunity to vote, also has a responsibility to seek out information that will help him/her cast that vote.”

You are glad to help those who want it, but denigrate those who have no interest as you do. Please tell me how I misread that?

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monicaangela
Member

We are discussing people who vote are we not? This is where my statement comes from. Persons who will get out and vote because of one or two issues but won’t take the time to investigate the person they are voting for deserve no empathy from me. And, believe me I am willing to help anyone interested or not, if you had read what I wrote you would notice that I said, those people that I work with were not interested in technology or going to the library or trying to educate themselves in whichever way possible to allow themselves to become more informed voters. So where do you get that I am glad to help those who want it. I am glad to help anyone, but I do not and will not force myself on anyone. A person has to be willing to accept help from someone else before you can help them. And, I don’t consider criticizing people who are unwilling to educate themselves unfair.

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Mopshell
Member

This ads were made in Australia. A country surrounded by ocean, the only way for refugees to reach here is by boat. Many of them are children. Many of them drown in the attempt. But, rather than a humanitarian issue, it became a political issue with the right wing exploiting the xenophobia of its followers by portraying these poor wretched souls as somehow sub-human. The Left is countering this with, among other things, an education program and that’s where these ads come in. Just substitute ‘boat people’ for ‘illegal aliens’ as you watch:

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monicaangela
Member

Excellent Mopshell,

Now all we have to do is begin to discuss why it is necessary for these people to leave their country to come to Australia or in the case of the “illegals” to America. What do you imagine is the cause for all of this? 🙂

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sillylittleme
Member

Global economic strife caused by our major banks and corporations. Not to mention the CIA’s not so secret unwar on drugs to keep them on the streets of the USA.

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monicaangela
Member
sillylittleme
Member

Well stated. FYI, the second video won’t play in the US. Gotta love the Corps…

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EXFANOFARIANA
Member
EXFANOFARIANA

I managed to open it here..:)

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Mopshell
Member

Can you see this one? I have my fingers crossed…

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sillylittleme
Member
Mopshell
Member

Phew! Thanks so much for the help, you are a gem.

So what do you think of them?

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sillylittleme
Member

The ads were wonderful.

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Mopshell
Member

Darn it! I’ll see if I can find another copy of it.

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sillylittleme
Member

Ok Nirek, You asked for suggestions for a solution. I propose the following:

Treat them as refugees, for they surely are.
Those that have relatives in the US should be connected with them.
All other children should be treated as orphans. Offer them to couples who have been seeking adoption. Special consideration should be given to same-sex couples as there they would find a loving and likely financially secure home.
Give them a top-notch education.
Send the teabaggers on a fact finding mission to their countries and see if they can get to the bottom of it. Okay, this part is snark.

Light their way when the darkness surrounds them

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SearingTruth
Member

“My baby died for good cause.

Small government.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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Beatlex
Member
Beatlex

“What can be done”It is a real conundrum.There is so much inequality in the World.Where to start and what to do.This is far bigger than what is happening in America.There is a refugee disaster going on in the middle east and africa.Aid agencies are overwhelmed

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sillylittleme
Member

It is so sad to see what humanity is doing to itself. There is only one race, the human race.

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Beatlex
Member
Beatlex

And we seem to be losing it SLM

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sillylittleme
Member

In the worst way possible.

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SearingTruth
Member

Indeed gentle friend Beatlex.

That’s why I wrote A Future of the Brave.
ST

“Critical Focus

Fortunately, there is a curious and wonderful fact about humanity.

Whenever we come together to focus on and solve some seemingly insurmountable problem, we are successful.

From initially learning to navigate vast oceans, to understanding and curing disease, to placing humans on the moon and exploring the solar system beyond, our species record of technical achievement is truly stunning.

In fact, history clearly records that our progress as a species is not impeded by our inability to solve critical problems; it is instead impeded by our inability to recognize and focus on them.

We have survived thus far not by elegant planning, but simply because of our once isolated population groups, the relatively low level of past technologies, and sheer dumb luck.

However, time has turned, and we cannot go back. Populations have become almost completely integrated, our technology has progressed to fantastic and globally lethal levels, and sooner or later our sheer dumb luck will run out.

Without direction, without a plan, without common goals and purpose, our species, and our world, will fail.

All our history, all our dreams, all our knowledge, our anguish, our joy, our victories, our defeats, all of our passion, everything that was human, gone forever. As if it had never existed in time at all.

Could anyone, no matter their nationality or beliefs, want their children or grandchildren to live their last anguished moments of life in this failed world?

I think not.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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Beatlex
Member
Beatlex

Great post SearingTruth,my thoughts exactly.We have to be realistic.It does not look good for Humankind.It seems “civilization” is a fatally flawed idea

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SearingTruth
Member

Gentle friend Beatlex you are here.

That gives me hope.

For all of us.
ST

“Until the last voice of freedom was silenced.

That’s how long they had to wait.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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RSGmusic
Member
RSGmusic

Hello SearingTruth.
what you described above is a good goal.
It will not be achieved by the current politics in the USA or the world. Shall we say that the new order will not center around on what is now.

All organisms die on their waste products. We have not concentrated on the waste until it is to late.
The earth is a small place and in the future the time to correct the waste products will arrive too soon at our current pace.

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SearingTruth
Member

“If we were to need money for war it would be given.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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SearingTruth
Member

Gentle friend Nirek, my answer is to save the children.

At all cost.

They are priceless.
ST

“The death of a billion worlds is reflected in the eyes of one suffering child.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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RSGmusic
Member
RSGmusic

Agreed ST.

IN the eyes of a child is the future of the brave. It is regretful Our bravery get less as humans grow older.

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sillylittleme
Member

Thank you ST. It seems that people have forgotten what it was to be a child. For the most part, Americans are fortunate. We have such a good thing going and when there is a hiccup, the hate and fear come out. Xenophobia will be the death of us. I wonder what people will do when we have to be the ones moving to other countries because it becomes intolerable to live here.

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SueInCa
Member

Oh my slm, I have been contemplating that very thing and thanking my stars I live in an area where my home would sell pretty fast.

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SearingTruth
Member

Well spoken gentle friend sillylittleme. Fear is the root.
ST

“Do not let fear and terror sway you.

That’s all any enemy of humanity needs.”
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave

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sillylittleme
Member

Your words always make me feel better. Thank you ST

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Mopshell
Member

Thank you to you and SearingTruth. With the focus on why are they coming here and how do we stop them, I was losing hope of any thought of how we could help them. America has a population of some 319 million and can’t absorb some 40,000 children in desperate need?

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RSGmusic
Member
RSGmusic

Curious Mopshell why not 40 k children?

ONLY 4000 families have to adopt one child.

The next problem is what you do for next yrs Children.

The root of the problem is to stop fighting ourselves around the world. Next is to look at money different. What that concept is? too many do not know.

The earth has run out of space and not enough resources.

Space travel is two centuries away for a new frontier.

Those frontiers of the past have run out!

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sillylittleme
Member

Thank you too, I was trying to stay off of this topic as it descended into something reminiscent of the trolls on HP. I came in to respond to someone and saw ST had written his usual words of wisdom and felt instantly better.

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