• AdLib : Thanks pal and back at ya! Have a great weekend!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…good….at least HP gets the benefit of your counsel on occasion. Well good night my friend.

  • AdLib : Murph – I did read the thread and was very glad you posted it, very interested in the commentary and of course pleased by so many people joining the conversation. Thanks again for doing that!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : choice…just read your egg adventures….wh at a tale…yuck

  • AdLib : CL – Yipe! Good thing you won the mug instead of our official PlanetPOV loaf of Whole Wheat bread!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I agree. The GOTP is a danger to democracy.

  • AdLib : CL – Yuck! SOrry you’re having to go through that! Hope you’re done with that now and can have a relaxing weekend!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well Ad Lib it’s you and me again….people are going to start talking…..I think I shall head out as well…..I was so pleased to post your extraordinary comment…did you stop by to read any of the comments….real ly set off the TP crowd and set up the folks in our corner to fight on.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’m wheat intolerant and they wanted to give me toast. I’d have looked like Harry Potter’s aunt after he swelled her up, only I’d have sunk, not floated. disgusting.

  • AdLib : Murph – When I was much younger, I too saw it as most reasonable to vote based on the person, not the party. There were differences between the parties but each had strengths. It’s impossible today when there is such a monolithic GOP that only becomes more monolithic through ongoing purging. Dems are the only party of diversity now.

  • choicelady : AdLib – a test to make sure my horrid digestive problems were food intolerances not organic. I’m fine. Just disgusting stuff to swallow down. And eggs is one of the food intolerances. It wasn’t fun.

  • choicelady : Night AdLib. Night Murph!

  • AdLib : CL- What are you doing eating radioactive eggs?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Choice….

  • choicelady : I am indeed heading off. Even though I’m not able to light my own way (what a loss after swallowing REALLY bad scrambled eggs mixes with radioactive something) I am fading just from being tired. See you all next week I hope!

  • AdLib : CL – Good point, Cruz could win the primaries via the Baggers but lose even the Repub vote in the GE!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Yes, my Dad also used to split his vote. I picked it up from him. I think it came out of his admiration for Ike (and for Truman who was a semi-GOP).

  • choicelady : AdLib – we like to think so! We do a lot of social justice legislative work together. It’s a ton of fun!

  • AdLib : Night CL! Have a great weekend and we’ll catch up on HOPEful developments next week!

  • choicelady : AdLib – if you listen to a lot of GOP, President Cruz doesn’t appeal to many of them either! As nuts as they are – they don’t go THERE.

  • AdLib : CL – Not surprising you two are together, he is pretty damn cool as you are too!

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is the REAL loss with the current GOP. NOBODY is someone to admire unless you’re very narrow in your views.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice I worked very hard for Ford- in part because I knew how poor a governor was in GA.

  • choicelady : Murph- as it turns out Ford was not so bad.

  • AdLib : Murph – As strange as it is to say today, voting Repub used to be a real choice in the past. There used to be quite a bit of diversity in the GOP, remember Howard Baker? Many Dems would talk about him and other Repubs as ones they could vote for. Today? Hmm…President Cruz? I don’t know that’s too appealing to any Dems.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – as a person, Carter is a good man, yes. He allowed himself to be hijacked by the global corporate types, and it served the nation ill.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…I share your personal admiration for Carter but think Ford would have been a better choice for the office.

  • choicelady : Good night, Sabreen – I think I’m right on your heels!

  • choicelady : AdLib – Yup. He spent 60 days in the slammer for that. He’s “been to jail for justice”. So, BTW, have I. He stood up to Hayakawa and to those forces trying to shut Black Studies out of the curriculum. I’m very proud of him – he carries those beliefs to this day.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I bow to knowledge about Carter. I guess I was thinking more on the moral (family values) level.

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen! Sleep well and see you next week!

  • choicelady : Murph – I think you are, were, very typical of many Americans.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Goodnight Sabreen

  • choicelady : AdLib – oh sure. I intend to live another 30 years – surely someone great will come along?

  • Sabreen60 : Well it’s time to say good night. Enjoyed as usual. Take care everyone.

  • AdLib : Very cool, CL, did not know that about your hubby! I remember that insanity with Hayakawa!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….I was generally GOP at the Presidential level right up through GHW Bush…and I split my vote at the Senate level between the GOP and Dems. I voted Dem in the House, at the State and local levels.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I disagree that as president Carter was good. He is now and I respect him. As president he set in motion many things that gave the RW a leg up, and he did not have to do those things. I cannot forgive him for how rotten his presidency was to labor, in deregulating business, to courting the global corporate power. Just cannot forgive that!

  • AdLib : CL – Those are some pretty great bookends, JFK and PBO but you’ve got many more to go!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab- forgot to mention that my hotel room encounter was about 45 seconds and involved my delivering an envelope…no photo. The photo came in the shake and bake when another staff person snapped it (I was too stunned).

  • AdLib : CL – This is why I see so many parallels between Lincoln and Obama. Both were understated, brilliant and contemplative men. They both dealt with very racially divided times, great man-made tragedies and unrelenting conflict. They didn’t choose to be President in the times that were waiting for them but they accepted the heavy burdens that were dropped on their shoulders without complaint. And both succeeded in ways that lesser Presidents could never have done. Lincoln is Obama’s hero, I think Obama would be Lincoln’s hero.

  • Sabreen60 : I don’t have a lot of lofty words to bestow on President Obama. Well actually I do, but I won’t. He’s a GOOD man. And for me that says a lot. I think I would say Carter was a GOOD man. I can’t think of another president in my lifetime I could say that about.

  • choicelady : Murph – YIKES. But we still love you. Youthful indiscretions don’t weigh you down. My husband was raised as a Bircher. By 1968 he was the editor of the SF State paper and the one who refused to shut it down when Hayakawa demanded. He supported the Black Studies movement, was antiwar. People change, sometimes FAST.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….in those days I was a Nixon guy….OMG

  • choicelady : AdLib – I started as a teen with JFK. I’m ending as a crone with PBO. Not a bad life.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib You capture Obama so well. Once in a generation. Indeed.

  • choicelady : Murph – that was LIVE up to…

  • Sabreen60 : Nite Kes. Have a great week!

  • choicelady : Murph – yup. It’s fine if we lie UP to the legend. It’s not so hot when we learn the reality. Quite demoralizing.

  • AdLib : Kes, sleep well and have a lovely weekend!

  • choicelady : kes – good night, dear friend in Ohio the state leading the nation! Sweet dreams!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- JFK and RFK are the stuff of legends….and that is good and bad.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I think, at the end of the day, that IS JFK’s legacy. Hope.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is a very powerful tribute to Obama. I agree with every word.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…good bye and pleasant dreaming.

  • Sabreen60 : JFK’s record wasn’t so great, IMO. But he brought a youthfulness to the presidency. He had a young wife and young kids. I think people saw “hope” in him. It could have been misplaced hope, but we’ll never know.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab.I met him twice. Once by myself at his hotel room in Columbia SC when he was a long, long shot…and then a year later in a shake and bake line when he was close to the front runner spot. I have half a dozen images of him around my house (his official portrait, two with Michelle, one with Biden AND one with ME)

  • AdLib : Sabreen – I was just thinking today as I saw video of him at a press conference, we are going to look back at his Presidency very wistfully. What an amazing man, brilliant, compassionate, clever, strategic, almost always putting the right foot forward and succeeding against the odds so many times where others have fallen. Not one scandal in his Presidency to date and you have to go back to probably Eisenhower for the last time that happened. Obama is a once in an era kind of leader, we will miss him greatly when he’s gone but until them, I’m so thrilled that when the President speaks, I see this man.

  • choicelady : Murph – That is very cool to know. I got to sit about 20 feet from him in CA at the state Dem convention, and I was totally taken with him and her. Amazing human beings they are.

  • kesmarn : After midnight here in pumpkin land, dear friends, so I must sign off. This has been a pretty good week for the Prez. Y’all have a great weekend.

  • choicelady : Murph – one forgets the briefness of JFK’s time in office. I always liked him OK, but I’m not a “Camelot” person. I just though he did well. I learned during the PBS feature on the Freedom Riders how awful Bobby was – he’s the one who set J.Edgar on King! I never had known that. So they have warts and crap all over them even as we call them heroes.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I saw Obama exhausted and overwhelmed about four times and each time it was Michelle who carried him. A remarkable woman.

  • Sabreen60 : Oh Murph, I’m jealous and envious. I should be ashamed that I have not seen PBO in person – living right here in Silver Spring. When I went to the Mall this year for the March, I couldn’t get close. This may sound weird, but sometimes when I see a certain picture of him I feel as though we could be friends. He just seems so “regular”, but then again very statesmanlike.

  • choicelady : AdLib – same here! She has a lot of baggage and it’s not Bill.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I agree with you about O- one of the things he has done is to really LEARN on the job…JFK…we will never know…he was President just a little longer than Palin was governor of Alaska (horrid I know to put those two in the same sentence) but like her he is more recalled for the impression of his presidency than its reality. He would have had huge losses in Congress without the missile crisis as a result of the Bay of Pigs and his poor showing with the USSR. I think he was being pushed to more fully engage in Vietnam for that reason as well.

  • AdLib : CL – I am keeping my radar on full alert to see if Hillary slips towards the Wall Streeters or Fundies or says anything to undercut Obama. I never swear blind allegiance to any candidate and having reasons to be wary, I will be watching Hillary very closely.

  • choicelady : AdLib, kes, Murph – see? We have LOTS of possible candidates. But yes – I think it will be Hillary, won’t be Warren, and who knows for Veep?

  • choicelady : Murph – I thought that delicious story he told about the morning – early morning – he met the woman who chanted “FIRED UP! READY TO GO!” was indicative of Obama’s loathing of campaigning. He’s happier now – easier to be president than run for it. You can just SEE it.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Saying this as someone who doesn’t think of the word sexy when he sees Chris Van Hollen, he would make a very solid Presidential candidate.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I totally agree. There are not many like those two. I think – Murph disagrees with me – that JFK was on his way to revamping a lot of our nation’s Cold War policies. We will never know. But – PBO has DONE that in a number of critical ways. He sort of finished the job that JFK MIGHT have been starting (I won’t overstate, Murph – it’s your field, not mine.)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab- I worked for the Obama campaign in SC, NC, Tx, GA, and OK…I got a chance to see him a lot (I specialized in working the crowds and organizing the event movement). He is a stunning campaigner (despite the fact that he does not love it)

  • kesmarn : Absolutely, Sabreen. If he could run again, I’d vote for him in a heart-beat. Tough act to follow, our Prez

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Right with you on that. I am tentative about how Hillary would follow a Progressive agenda but I am counting on her ability to learn and reason. That could be misguided, she might be cemented in all of those negative RW mindsets. I will say that if any of that crap raises its head in the primaries, I will not stick with her and will support an opponent of hers no matter the odds. If she wants to have Progressives behind her, and we are the core Dem voters, she can’t campaign as a Repub-lite. And honestly, I can’t see how she would see that as a good thing.

  • Sabreen60 : Good night glenn!

  • Sabreen60 : Well I don’t see anyone with the charisma of Barack Obama. Or the smarts. He just may be a once in a generation kind of candidate. JFK had it.

  • choicelady : kes – he’s a suck up.

  • kesmarn : He’s a baffling guy, Bill. I will never figure him out.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Glenn.

  • choicelady : Murph – hope you’re right.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I chose Barack over Hillary in 2007 for many of the reasons you and others have mentioned here. But, I think Hillary has been shaped by her experience with Obama and at State. I think she has been shaped by Bill (the post Presidential Bill) and by her supporters….sh e is different. I saw her speak last year and she moved me in ways she never did in 2007.

  • choicelady : kes – well he HAD to make up for his disgusting 2008 campaign crap. Bill can do the right thing when he chooses.

  • kesmarn : G’ night, glenn! Sleep well.

  • choicelady : Goodnight glenn – sorry I missed you!

  • kesmarn : And Bill’s speech at the Dem National Convention was really a stunner — totally backed the Prez.

  • choicelady : AdLib – again, I hope you’re right. Read somewhere without sources that she’s started sniping at PBO already though. But can’t confirm that.

  • AdLib : Night glenn! Same here, always enjoy all you bring to Vox! Have a great weekend!

  • AdLib : CL – Yep, I really was angry at Bill Clinton for his racist pandering in the 2008 primary, he really was disgusting. I saw a side of him that just repulsed me. It’s possible that out of desperation, with Hillary losing, he panicked and reverted to his base instincts. I do think though that he and Hillary did their penance when they aggressively campaigned for Obama and Hillary working constructively with Obama in her role of SoS. As I said, I can only hope she has become more enlightened as a person by her years as SoS and seeing the failings of her husband’s positions while Obama has been the really historic President.

  • choicelady : kes – ANYONE we could put up would be light years ahead of the GOP. They’re a Black Hole in the firmament.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab…I was just joining the chorus…in any case neither van Hollen or Sherrod are strong enough in amphitheater crowds

  • kesmarn : Hmmmm…who is the sexiest politician in the country. Time for a really deep question now.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – OK I can go Chris, too.

  • choicelady : Murph – I think that’s why it will be Hillary. And I’m sort of OK with it. Just not enthusiastic for all the reasons Sabreen has enumerated.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph – I never thought of Sherrod as sexy. Chris Van Hollen maybe. :)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….women are the future in politics in this country for many reasons.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – that is exactly it: I do not trust Hillary. I totally trust Obama.

  • kesmarn : I have some Hillary reservations, too. But she would be light-years beyond anything the GOP could dredge up.

  • choicelady : Murph – Sherrod needs us wimmin. You guys? Not so much.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I’m with you on all points. But if she’s IT – then OK.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : OK LADIES..Sexy Sherrod…I will accept your POV but from the testosterone crowd…..a snoozer

  • Sabreen60 : I’ll vote for Hillary. I’m missing that trust factor I have with President Obama. She was wrong on the war. She has/had ties to C Street and she’s a bit hawkish for my taste. I look at NAFTA and Glass Steagall and wonder if she those were good ideas.

  • choicelady : kes – AMEN on Sherrod, sister! Amen!

  • choicelady : Mruph – LOL!!! Sounds too cut – Attila the hen! Slur on chickens.

  • kesmarn : Sherrod is very sexy to us wimmen folk!

  • choicelady : AdLib – hope to hell you’re right.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…apparen tly much worse. Her reputation for going through staff is legendary….Att ila the Hen

  • kesmarn : Sabreen and Murph, yes, Coulter needs the anger she inspires in others like oxygen. She is one person who actually is kinda scary to me in the level to which she seems possessed by rage.

  • choicelady : Murph – OK. I will take your man’s point of view. I think Sherrod is adorable and cute as heck.

  • AdLib : CL – I’m with you, the Clinton ties to Wall Street and the wealthy are problematic to me. IMO, Bill was a terrible President for Progressives, what with such things as NAFTA, DADT, Welfare reform, signing off on killing Glass-Steigel. I can only hope that Hillary has learned from Bill’s failures and Obama’s successes.

  • choicelady : Murph – you mean in REAL LIFE Coulter is WORSE? I second your OMG!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Sherrod….not from the stage…he is a snoozer…one to one..yes

  • choicelady : Sabreen – Coulter is just a potty mouth, nothing more.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- I used to know a GOP publicist who knew Coulter. His comment: “You know the way she is on television and in speechs…well in real life she gets mean….” OMG

  • glenn : Okay, folks, I’m heading out. Friday night is one of the best parts of my week, and I so enjoy hearing all of your insights, comments, and information. G’night all. Have a great weekend!

  • Sabreen60 : Kes, glenn – Yep. I couldn’t believe the garbage that came from her mouth.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, your prediction record is pretty much 100% so when you talk, I listen. :lol:

  • choicelady : Murph – I think Sherrod oozes charisma! Just me.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I did not at first. I sure did in ’96. He caved on EVERYTHING. And yet the Emos hold him up as a demi God! And his racism in the 2008 campaign against Obama was over the TOP. First Black president my ass.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…Sherrod is sound in policy, has great instincts and works well with others BUT he has zero charisma….

  • choicelady : Sherrod rocks. No doubt about it.

  • AdLib : Kes – I am a big fan of Sherrod Brown, if he did run I would support him too, hoping that maybe he could be on the Hillary ticket. I do have to predict though that Hillary will not be able to be defeated unless some massive surprise comes up.

  • choicelady : kes – I calls ’em as I sees ’em.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the office does shape the person, no doubt. I don’t hate her – she and Bill made HUGE overtures to Lynn Slepian whose husband, the abortion provider, was murdered in 1998. I just don’t trust her. But if she’d ‘the contender’ so be it. I will support her.

  • kesmarn : :lol: Great line about the Coulter cheese slicer!

  • Sabreen60 : CL, :D Yep that’s her. She’s a piece of work.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn Joaquín Castro’s brother is Julian Castro, the mayor of San Antonio, his twin

  • kesmarn : He’s a very bright, humble man, c’lady. I hear he had a lot to do with getting Larry Summers out of the running for Fed Chairman,too. Good for him.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – yup. Ann Coulter. The wo/man whose bony but could slice cheese.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I hear you about Hillary. I held my nose when I voted for Bill.

  • AdLib : CL – I share your reservations about Hillary’s Dominionist ties but I would think she would have a lot of trouble taking even a half step towards the Baggers. Just as Obama felt the weight of history on his shoulders as the first black President, Hillary would as well, as the first woman President. I do think she is likely to win so I am looking at the optimistic side of things but I could be wrong.

  • choicelady : kes – I do not know them well at all, just via ACA stuff, calls, conferences, etc. But he showed up at a very small meeting at the Cleveland Public Library on the 1919 strike, and he participated FROM the audience NOT as apresenter. THAT endeared him to me forever.

  • kesmarn : Oh Sabreen, I’d bet that was Ann Coulter. A seething cauldron of rage, that one.

  • glenn : Sabreen–I believe you’re referring to anncoulter, aren’t you?

  • Sabreen60 : I was looking for something to watch on TV and saw Piers Morgan’s show. Who’s the blond talking head that people say looks like a man? Anyway she was really denigrating Hillary. Said she hopes she does run because she’s old and dowdy (or some such word). These people repulsive.

  • kesmarn : So cool that you know the Brown family, c’lady. I just love him!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I could hold my nose on Hillary if that is what it comes to. But I’d keep my back to the wall at all times with her.

  • glenn : AdLib, Murph–Doesn’t Juan have a twin brother? Since we’re speculating here, how about a Castro/Castro ticket? Now those two names would blow the tp’s minds!

  • choicelady : kes – I LOVE Sherrod and his wife,too, and they are people with whom I worked on ACA and are friends of a friend. I’d LOVE him to run! Doubt Connie would though!

  • kesmarn : True.

  • AdLib : And consider the demographics of a Clinton/Castro ticket.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Juan Castro, hmmmmm, and he is really and truly liberal

  • kesmarn : That would be good, AdLib, but I’d almost rather see Sherrod Brown on the ticket. He’s just SO darned liberal.

  • glenn : AdLib–I like the Clinton/Castro ticket.

  • choicelady : AdLib – if I could get Hillary’s Dominionist ties out of my craw, that WOULD be cool. I may have to.

  • AdLib : Okay, here’s my long shot, you heard it here first. Juan Castro should run, knowing he will likely lose to Hillary but…earn himself the VP spot! And a future run for President that he could win. Hillary and Castro as a ticket? It may seem far fetched but wouldn’t that be exciting?

  • choicelady : Sabreen and Murph – I WILL PAY ATTENTION!!! Thanks for the heads up on O’Malley!

  • kesmarn : That’s a new one to me too, but a good one!

  • glenn : Sabreen–Who is O’Malley?

  • choicelady : glenn – ohhhhhhh. How could I not have known?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen and Choice…O Malley is really quite extraordinary.

  • glenn : CL–It’s Okay If You’re A Republican

  • choicelady : glenn – I’m acronym impaired: IOIYAR?

  • choicelady : Sabreen – you have made me aware of O’Malley. I will pay attention!

  • AdLib : Yep, I think Grayson is a Dem version of the Repub opportunists, he’s a grandstander who seems most focused on promoting himself. Which is why he might run.

  • glenn : CL–Of course it didn’t matter with Reagan’s age. IOIYAR

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, I’ll vote for a Dem with two heads before I vote for a Republican.

  • choicelady : AdLib – as for Booker, yes I will take him AS a Dem. The rest? We will have to see.

  • kesmarn : And Biden’s mom was active into her 90’s so he’s got some good genes going for him there.

  • choicelady : Murph – I used to like him. I think he’s just hot air.

  • AdLib : Night KT! Looking forward as always to the Music Thread!

  • Sabreen60 : Good night KT. Take care!

  • choicelady : kes – Biden, Hillary – anyone our generation will get that charge. Did not bother anyone when REAGAN did it, but apparently it will in 2016 with Dems.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- good night.

  • glenn : Sabreen–That’s why I asked the question–to see what other Dems are “available”. I still have my doubts about Hillary.

  • AdLib : I’m glad Booker won but I get a feeling about him. He has some good stands on some issues but his close ties to Wall Street and hedge funds, his pro-school voucher stand, there are a number of things that make me feel a bit uncomfortable about him but as a Senator, it’s good for the Dems.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Choice…P.S. I know Grayson…oooopp pssss…he is a bit of a horses patoot but he reminds me of an OT prophet(or is that profit).

  • choicelady : Murph – that’s what scares me about the Graysons of the Left. They are inches from being Libertarians for no good damned reason.

  • Sabreen60 : No one knows Governor O’Malley, but I’d vote for him. I’d also vote for Chris Van Hollen. Ok, I’m bias.

  • kesmarn : I really love Biden, too. But will the argument against him be that he’ll be too old?

  • glenn : Ad–In many ways, I’m glad Warren won’t run in 2016. We need her in the Senate.

  • choicelady : Good night, KT! Sweet dreams when you get there, and see you tomorrow!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib. .Grayson could run to create a sort of Dem Ron Paul.

  • glenn : ‘Night, KT. Looking forward to the music thread.

  • kesmarn : G’night, KT. Sweet dreams.

  • choicelady : Murph – TOTALLY Biden over Hillary. She took Doug Coe, the head of “The Family” on C Street as her personal pastor. I will NEVER trust her or her corporate links EVER.

  • kesmarn : Right, c’lady. He pushed it a little too far and got a wrist slap in 2010.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well Planeteers, I must say good night. I’m going to start on the tunes. Have great weekends all.

  • AdLib : glenn – Warren will absolutely not run, she is very strategic and knows that she would be too disadvantaged against Hillary to waste a run in 2016. Grayson just isn’t a big enough name to run successfully but he could just to raise his profile. Biden may run for the hell of it, even though he’d have a hard time running against Hillary. It’s a really good question, what other Dem would run? I do think that any Dem who might want to be VP should run, that could open up a number of possibilities.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, Booker may surprise me. But frankly speaking, IMO the Repubs definitely managed one win. I don’t think another African American will run for President for a long while.

  • choicelady : glenn – we’re on the same page!

  • choicelady : kes – there may be a method in Grayson’s madness, but he got beat in 2010 and should NEVER forget that!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…biden over hillary?

  • glenn : Murph–I absolutely love Biden. I think he’s one of the most experienced politicians Dems could run. He has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth, but that’s what I find most endearing about him. He is what he is, and that’s unusual in a pol these days.

  • choicelady : Murph – I could go Biden.

  • kesmarn : I’ve heard that, c’lady. I’ve heard it given as a reason for his incredibly blunt rhetoric. He’s so wealthy he feels beholden to no one.

  • choicelady : KT – I don’t think Grayson is radical. I think he’s a bomb thrower. He has NO legislative track record at all. He just loves the limelight.

  • choicelady : kes – did you know Grayson is one of the richest members of congress? Whoda thunk it?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn. I expect Joe Biden to throw his hat in the ring and maybe one or two others just to keep it lively but the fix will be in. No one with future aspirations will join the field.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, I think Grayson will look a little too radical. I think Warren might be a good choice. Not sure what Hillary is planning.

  • choicelady : kes – exactly my take on Grayson.

  • AdLib : Christie will have more problems than a Bagger since they will be part of his problem. Christie is despised by the core Repub primary voters. He’ll have to try to win them over which means he would have to say awful things and support terrible agendas. Otherwise, he loses the primaries. And in a GE, sorry Christie but independents and women from both parties will want to elect the first woman President who is far more qualified to run the US than a one and a half term governor from NJ. Christie won’t get the women’s vote, as a Repub he won’t get the Latino vote, black vote, student vote, no way he could win.

  • choicelady : glenn – I think Booker will be a slightly lefty mod.

  • kesmarn : Grayson makes a fabulous pit bull at times, but I think he’s a little unstable, to tell you the truth. Not presidential material.

  • glenn : Speaking of NJ, how about the new Senator, Corey Booker?

  • choicelady : kes – you’re welcome! Enjoy Ohio’s being in the center of leadership on this!

  • KillgoreTrout : Unless the TPGOP does some serious soul searching between now and 2016, I think they are bound to lose again.

  • choicelady : glenn – I would work my butt off AGAINST Grayson, and I used to give him money. He went over to the Dark Side to trash Obama in alliance with the RWNJs. I’m DONE with him. Warren will figure it out relative to Hillary. I’m thinking she will wait.

  • kesmarn : Thanks again, dear c’lady.

  • Sabreen60 : I watched part of Rachel and Barbara Buono was the guest. She was pretty good at exposing Christie’s dismal record.

  • KillgoreTrout : Kes, you’re probably right. I don’t think the fundies like him very much.

  • glenn : Ad, Murph–Do you think any other Dems will declare for the presidency? What about Allen Grayson? Elizabeth Warren? Any others?

  • choicelady : kes – it is oeockent.ORG not edu.

  • kesmarn : Right, glenn. He’s too “moderate” for them. Although, in reality, he is anything but moderate.

  • choicelady : Murph – that does make sense about Christie. But baby will he look cool doing it! He’s already lost weight and is looking much more statesmanlike.’

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…just left a comment for Choice that speaks to why I think he can hold out.

  • AdLib : I think Christie is very overrated as a threat to whoever is the Dem nominee (Hillary most likely) in 2016. He has many flaws and any bad positions on policy but mainly, whoever wants to win the Repub primary in 2016 will have to say so many nasty things to compete with the Baggers to win primaries, they will be necessarily damaged goods by the GE.

  • choicelady : Murph – there are huge tax advantages for existing employers to do ‘succession’ sales to their employees. Anyone who is thinking of retiring or facing hard times should do this. oeockent.org (KES – I got the link wrong in yours) can help. It is the ONLY way we will ever get past the iron fist of corporate control. No “New New Deal” can survive this corporate power. Only ownership gives certainty.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…he will sit it out…a look at his history tells me he has learned from an experience of taking on his party and nearly getting drummed out for good…it took him years after losing his Freeholder position to get back into a position where he could parlay power. He is not going to blow it. He will stay on the sidelines being wise and strong. Folks will notice.

  • kesmarn : KT, Christie is one of the few who could pull in some independent voters for them but I don’t think they see that.

  • glenn : Kes–Of course Christie is hated by the far right. He actually seems sane sometimes, and I believe he has to work with a Democratic legislature, so he has no choice.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I’m not so sure Christie will hold out that long.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, if the GOP were smart (cough cough)they would back Christie. Not sure about the temper thing.

  • kesmarn : I get the impression that Christie is really hated by the far right.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Very cool and yes, I do think we are very like minded. As I mentioned in my post, people use the term “sociopath” as an insult so often, it may seem to some like that’s the case here but if you really review the traits of a sociopath, you find the character description of most leading Tea Partiers and many Repubs. People may not want to accept it out of political correctness…bu t it is what it is.

  • glenn : Murph–You may be right. Christie may be content with being a “big frog in a little pond” for a while. And..folks, the “big” comes from the saying…I am not referring to Christie’s weight.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…you are SOOOOO on top of all of this coop, union, worker empowerment stuff….admire you for it….way ahead of me

  • kesmarn : Good point, AdLib, on Cruz. He may have that Bush quality of looking like a rube, but being very cunning underneath it all. Love the Thelma and Louise image! :lol:

  • choicelady : Murph – I’m not sure he CAN sit it out. He got that bypass for a reason, and I think he believes (wrongly) that he can turn the party around.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT. I expect Christie to sit out 2016 and maybe 2020. I think he knows that this insane wildfire has to burn out before the party can turn to what passes for a GOP moderate and kick ass tough guy. Any earlier and his brand gets damaged

  • glenn : KT–Christie might be a formidable opponent for Dems. However, I do wonder if his famous temper will get him into trouble with the stress of a national campaign.

  • choicelady : Sue – you off to dreamland? Have a wonderful weekend!

  • kesmarn : c’lady, many thanks for the references!

  • AdLib : Night Sue! Have a great weekend!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- there is intelligent, there is smart and there is wise. Cruz has one of those three.

  • kesmarn : glenn, she grates on my last nerve!! It isn’t just the moronic word salad; it’s also that horrible nasal voice. Like nails on a chalkboard.

  • choicelady : kes: Ohio Employee Ownership Center oeockent.edu. They do ESOPs and coops. Evergreen in Cleveland – evergreencoops.c om have laundries and hydroponic farms. Cincinnati Union Coop – doing railway repair facility, food handling and processing as well as farms. cincinnatiunionc oop.org. There are thing popping in Pittsburgh with another laundry and solar panel fabrication. MANY good things happening there.

  • Sabreen60 : AdLib, I was over at TPV and made a comment about sociopaths. Then I saw a link to your article. I came over and read it. After I returned to TPV, CL had also mentioned your article. I am definitely of a like mind with you. Sure seems as though the elected Teabaggers have some sociopaths among them.

  • KillgoreTrout : Agree kes, Murph and glenn. I wonder what Christie is going to do.

  • AdLib : Kes – I don’t know, Cruz is a skilled snake oil salesman, I could see him staying on top of the heap into 2014. Boy, if he could win the nom, Karl Rove and Roger Ailes will be driving off a cliff together like Thelma and Louise.

  • glenn : Kes–the only problem I see with cruz/palin as the “dream team” is that I’ll have nightmares if I have to listen to palin distort the English language every night on every channel.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….may the GOTP have many more such sweet dreams.

  • kesmarn : KT, I’m wondering if Cruz is actually smarter than he looks. He went to Harvard, I believe. I think he’s just trying to impersonate an idiot to get idiots to vote for him.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- Yes, Cruz thinks he is brilliant, smooth, and preternaturally devious….. He is none of the above.

  • glenn : KT–read today that cruz is so smart, he might have made an “inadvertent mistake” in his campaign, and is now being investigated for ethics violations.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams Sue. Hope to see you on the music thread.

  • kesmarn : G’night, Sue. Have a great weekend.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen. Good to see you!

  • kesmarn : Murph, I referred to Cruz/Palin as the Dream Team. For the Dems.

  • Sabreen60 : Good Nite Sue!

  • KillgoreTrout : The problem with Cruz is he thinks he’s much smarter than he really is. That might be good for us. I think the same was true of Romney! Wealth does not automatically translate into intelligence.

  • AdLib : Murph – Nope and I must say I’m very pleased to hear that you too think the Dems could win in 2014.

  • glenn : G’night Sue. You have a great weekend, too.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- the very best…have a grand one.

  • SueInCa : Well I am going to go now, you all have a great weekend.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I said the same thing in almost the same words in an email to a friend: “Please let it be Cruz!

  • glenn : CL–I think the only thing that will finally stop the stupids who vote for cruz is an agonizing defeat in a national election. I would so love to see them go down in flames. I’m usually not a vindictive person, but these people are evil!

  • AdLib : Murph – Appreciate your sharing that anecdote, I absolutely concur that that’s where the Baggers are, retrenched in their denial, believing that this huge defeat is somehow a great victory. Hubris is what brought them that defeat and greater hubris from them is exactly what we need to win in 2014. The more they insist they’re winning, the bigger they’ll overstep and the greater amount of voters they’ll lose.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice/Kes Cruz and Palin 2016…two times is the charm. The American Awakening. A Party to Be Proud of. American Proud!

  • kesmarn : c’lady, so good to hear the good news about Ohio. I know there are a number of coop organic farming operations now. They’re doing very well.

  • choicelady : kes – oh please I WANT Cruz in 2016!!!! Please, please let him be the one!!! He’s SO AWFUL he will be very easy to beat!

  • choicelady : glenn – it simply ROCKS. I heard they are doing other work in other areas, so I want to be on top of this.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, Amazingly — at the awful “Values Voters” conference, Cruz was far and away the favorite for Prez nominee, but I can’t see him holding up for 2 years. Too volatile.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…is Nate Silver backing up YOUR positon. So, I am not that far out there after all.

  • AdLib : Very cool, CL! That is great work, organizing is after all the work of great Presidents and focusing on co-ops is brilliant!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – yes, thank you, and have spread it far and wide!

  • glenn : CL–Wow! that sounds like a great organization! Good on ya! and Good on the ladies!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice: Totally committed to their delusional world view. The very definition of the Zealot.

  • choicelady : kes – Ohio is the BIG worker coop state in Cleveland, Cincinnati, and a few other places. I’m coming to Cincinnati in December to be on a union coop panel. Hope I have something to SAY! Ohio is light years ahead of CA.

  • glenn : Hey Sabreen!

  • glenn : Murph–did you ask her where they wanted us to be? Aren’t those tpers too “cute”?

  • AdLib : Kes – Glad to hear Nate Silver concurs with me again (he did in 2012 too!) ;-) I think it’s the Dems to lose in 2014, there is no reason for anyone but the 24% who are hard core Repubs to vote for them. As for Rand, either him, Cruz or Paul Ryan would please me immensely.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Sabreen60!

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I see you got my tweet re CRUZ and Dominionism.

  • choicelady : Murph – that is actually SO FUNNY! “We’ve got you libs right where we want you!” LOL!!!!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I am seeing that too AND (in whispered tones) hearing it around here too.

  • kesmarn : c’lady that is just heart-warming to read about.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and ALL….I met one of the local TP leaders at the Post Office yesterday. Her comment:”We’ve got you libs right where we want you.” THAT is there mentality.

  • choicelady : SABREEN!!! Great to see you over from the other site!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen!

  • glenn : Murph–I go to several sites, and the other day on either Salon or Slate, I read a comment from a former republican who swears he will never vote for a republican again. I see this more and more, but this particular person was absolutely passionate about his hatred for repubs/tp.

  • AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

  • choicelady : kes =- they are. There are 8 “green” housecleaning coops in the Bay Area, and they are owned by the women who do the cleaning. This way they moved from sub minimum incomes to middle class – have bought homes, cars, send their kids to college on their incomes. It’s simply amazing.

  • AdLib : glenn – It’s a valid concern to worry that Americans will forget the horrible things Repubs just did by next year. However, my proposition is that the constant extensions of the budget and debt ceiling will act as ongoing reminders to the public, they won’t get a chance to forget because after this massive defeat, the Baggers are bent on winning another confrontation. As we’ve seen, Baggers can’t help themselves, they are creatures of mindless hatred that they can’t restrain. I think Dems come back big in 2014 and if that happens, watching the GOP blow up for real will be hilarious!

  • Sabreen60 : Hello Planeteers!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn..then jump on in. Leave your thoughts. If a lot of folks are reading the thread, your comments will get elevated attention.

  • choicelady : glenn – the TP is simply NOT bright (good news) and seriously believe that if they become more and more aggressive they WILL win. That’s good for us – they drive their support down each time.

  • KillgoreTrout : Back in a moment folks!

  • kesmarn : WAGES sounds awesome, c’lady.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- OK, hold onto your hat, I think that the Dems can win back the House while keeping the Senate BECAUSE the GOTP is going to continue to embarrass the GOP AND because the Dems have now declared war on the Pugs.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I DO think we have an excellent shot at the House, and last I read, 5 of the 6 vulnerable Senate seats no longer were. We need to keep up the pressure – though this next round of possible shut downs will do it for us!

  • glenn : Murph–I always look for your comments. In fact, because we are in each other’s network, I am “notified” when you post something.

  • choicelady : AdLib – thank you. I am now meeting next week with WAGES – Woman’s Action to Gain Economic Security, the ONLY group actively organizing low income workers rather than setting up coops for high end consumption. I’m very excited about collaborating with them.

  • SueInCa : As long as Dems keep all this in the spotlight but after what the Cooch did it might not make any difference

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, are you still able to be anonymous at HP?

  • kesmarn : Well, I value Nate Silver’s opinion, and he says that the Dems should take the House back. YAY! And I’m wondering if Rand Paul will be their boy for Pres nomination — since Cruz will likely have flamed out by then?

  • glenn : AdLib–My hopes say “yes” and “yes” to your questions. However, I will never underestimate the tp again. Whoda thunk they would have pulled their most recent stunt after losing legislatively over 40 times, after losing judicially, and after losing electorally? Never underestimate the power of fanatics.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn..OMG you are glennard! Hah! Well find my comments when you check in. If it is in a pundit box comment there. Others will read it.

  • AdLib : SO join me in some way too early speculation, do you think the Dems will win back the House in 2014? DO you think the Tea Party will elect one of their own as the Repub nominee for President in 2016?

  • SueInCa : I was talking about impeachment CL not trial

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…HP no longer does that. In fact I published one of Ad Lib’s fine posts a couple of days ago with the HP link in it. It attracted more than 400 favorites (so widely read) and tons of comments.

  • choicelady : kes – yup. My mother said we would not want to be in a world after a bomb. I thought a shelter would be cool, but I know now she was right.

  • SueInCa : Hey I met Stone Anthony last night. He is running for President of the American Freedom Party or some such thing. When I questioned his stance on religion in school and my friend asked him why someone else founded his party, that bastid cut us off LOL We were laughing about it last night

  • glenn : Murph–I am a fan of yours and you are a fan of mine; I use “glennard” on that site.

  • choicelady : Sue – remember that never in the history of humanity has any nation taken its own leader to trial for crimes against that humanity. The only effort was this year in Guatamala when they tried Rios Montt – and the courts let him go. Pelosi totally understands that. It would have hobbled whoever won in 2008 – it would have become an issue of persecution and never of justice. Bush and Cheney need to go before ICC – but they don’t leave the country precisely to avoid that. They are under “house arrest” for life.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…your experience is a common one. I did not know you were on the site. Find me the next time you are there and then fan me. I will fan you back and then we are networked so you can find my comments. The advantage is that replying to my comments puts them in a pundit box where many more see them. This is my profile page: «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Me too kes.

  • SueInCa : glenn you are a good woman but I stopped doing that ages ago because they would always come back on another comment and say they were waiting. Phony rubes

  • kesmarn : Do they still immediately censor out any reference to the Planet on HP? They used to do that religiously. So much for freedom of speech…

  • AdLib : CL – You know how strongly I believe in what you’re doing with promoting employee owned businesses. That is the real path to the future and the reversing of economic injustice.

  • kesmarn : No kidding, c’lady?

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, Porky Pig on meth! Now that’s funny. Also true. I have asked them the very same question, and usually get no reply at all. Either that, or they’ll try to make it about Benghazi, or the IRS or the TSA….ad nauseum.

  • choicelady : kes – that’s exactly what my parents said!

  • SueInCa : You know what pisses me off CL? When there was good reason to impeach Bush and that damned Nancy Pelosi dug her heels in.

  • glenn : Murph–I go to HP to find out what the “other side” is thinking. I do try to give them websites, links, etc. to show them the “error of their ways”, but I hardly ever get any feedback when I provide them. Other than, of course, it’s not foxso-callednews , so you can’t believe what they say.

  • choicelady : Murph – I don’t disagree, but I’m just NOT up to it anymore.

  • kesmarn : KT, they remind me of the people who built bomb shelters back in the day and included guns along with the emergency supplies. I was a kid, but my parents always said they’d rather die in a bomb than live in a world populated by that kind of “survivor.”

  • SueInCa : Maybe I will slide on by one day and check you and funk out, the rest pfttt….

  • choicelady : glenn – I see “impeach Obama” a lot of places. Creepy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- just left Sue a comment about HP that you might want to look at.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks Sue….there are days when I share the same feeling but it has huge traffic and folks of our mindset do make a real difference there thanks to the pundit program that gives informed comments good placement so many read them.

  • choicelady : AdLib – horrible image, Porky on meth. But it’s accurate!

  • AdLib : Sue – As you mentioned earlier, there is no reasoning with people who blindly follow. If they knew how to reason, they wouldn’t be in the situation they’re in that makes them so desperate to believe lies and propaganda.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not at all kes. I wonder what kind of world would these creeps make for themselves if they did survive…whatev er. Not a very good one, I’m sure.

  • SueInCa : It seems juvenile to me now, not sure why. It is all just so petty back and forth

  • glenn : ALL–So, now that President Obama has shown himself to be the “dictator” that he really is, when do impeachment proceedings begin?

  • choicelady : Murph – you have a stronger constitution than I do. Cannot go there anymore.

  • SueInCa : i give you props Murph, I cannot stand that site

  • choicelady : Murph – my organization is the only one in CA that has a signed MOU with USW-Mondragon to do the work here. I am VERY devoted to employee ownership and am pressing forward wherever I can with it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : choice- it is and things are hopping over there.

  • AdLib : KT – These types surround themselves with other Apocalypse-minde d people so they validate each other but as CL and Sue mentioned below, if you ask them what rights or freedoms have been actually taken away from them or any Americans, they’ll just stammer like Porky Pig on meth.

  • SueInCa : I know that one for real K’es

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, it wouldn’t surprise me. He would be a good little member.

  • choicelady : Murph and funk – uhhhh – what’s the ‘other place’? If it’s HP, more power to you both!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- a fine choice on your part. Love the model.

  • choicelady : Murph – the people who MAKE things are the employees. That’s why I work with the USW-Mondragon folks building employee owned businesses.

  • kesmarn : KT, I have family members like that, too. Not a good head to be in.

  • glenn : ‘Night, Funk. Have a great weekend.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bye Funk…see you at “the other place”

  • KillgoreTrout : Go easy funk! Have a great weekend.

  • SueInCa : I know Adlib I have become very adept at walking away no sense beating my head against a wall

  • choicelady : Hey funk – sorry you have to go, but have a lovely weekend. See you soon I hope!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….YES…the y are the JOB CREATORS…the MAKERS….the ENTERPRISERS and they are on the dole

  • AdLib : Good seeing you Funk! You and the family have a great weekend!

  • kesmarn : Have a great weekend, funk!

  • choicelady : Murph – if the rip off fits…

  • choicelady : KT – I sure hope to God that your niece’s father is not an Oath Keeper. Those law enforcement officers who are sworn NOT to uphold laws they don’t approve of are terrifying!

  • AdLib : CL and Sue – This is why the Baggers NEED to stay in their bubbles of hatred, their whole world just disintegrates if they have discussions with anyone outside of their bubble.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…GRIFTER ….that’s the word I needed. I told my other friends that they should count me out of future gatherings that involved him.

  • SueInCa : Well Funk you have a great weekend too

  • KillgoreTrout : The funny thing is, CL, that Rand was an atheist!

  • funksands : Folks I can’t stay long. I wanted to say hi and let all of you know how awesome you are. Have a fabulous weekend and appreciate the people and things ya got.

  • choicelady : Sue – they fear fear. And frankly it’s FUN. It’s the only high they get. I had a dear friend who went to a Y2K survivalist show and wrote later, if they think the end is coming – why are they accepting credit cards?

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, my niece’s step family is like that. The dad is a swat cop here in Columbus. They stoked up plenty for the big 2001 apocalypse and the 2012 apocaplypse. Truly hateful and freightened people.

  • kesmarn : Murph, taking those subsidies is “just good business” to them. But food stamps — they make people entitled dependents.

  • SueInCa : I think my husband and I are going to pay just a little less but he goes Medicare in Feb so we have to really look at our enrollment to see what is going to be up. I do not understand it right now

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks for the Palin kudo

  • choicelady : funk – that day of no fear is at hand.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- there ya go….it is good for us all.

  • SueInCa : What rights have you lost, gets rid of them every time. Not to mention they are too lazy to even come up with a lie

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- wonderful. In my own case my gold plan is going to cost me 15 percent less than it does now.

  • choicelady : Murph – yup, the only grifters are poor. RICH grifters are – well, GOP.

  • choicelady : AdLib – right on the money! I keep asking them – what rights have you LOST, and I never get an answer. This happened with Clinton, too – and they do’t remember they were saying the same, though not racist, things then.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I went to see the National Tour of Evita on Sunday afternoon. My group had eaten a very nice brunch at the Feasting Fox beforehand. Wonderful. The show was interesting- not great but very, very good. On the way to the parking lot there were panhandlers. I always carry a wad of five dollar bills and given everyone of them $5. I have done this for years. We had someone new in our group who went off on me at the bar where we stopped for a drink. This guy owns a farm and gets big subsidies. Eventually that is what I announced to my group. Then I left.

  • funksands : CLady, so true. I yearn for the day where someone doesn’t have to live in fear of economic ruin just because they get sick

  • kesmarn : There are very few of us who would be “insurable” by their standards, funk. Only folks who have a note signed by God that they’re immortal.

  • choicelady : KT – EXACTLY which is why the convergence of Dominionists and Libertarians is SO WEIRD!!! They worship St. Ayn.

  • AdLib : KT – From my POV, I see paranoid, frightened and intimidated white men panicking that the end of society is coming because a black man is President. All the guns and survival shelters they waste their money on yet Obama has been President since 2008 and there are still elections, police and Miley Cyrus performances. They need to believe an end is coming because they are too scared to face the future. Let them go broke and have only bullets to eat…at least until they pull out their SNAP card.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, I think the senseless rambling is a bit of a clue! ;)

  • choicelady : funk – the words “I’m uninsurable” will soon become things of the past we look at and shake our heads over.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, yeah, that’s surely the Randian mentality. I got mine, screw you!

  • SueInCa : CL I give them a dollar or two and do not care where they spend it. You are lucky I was not with you

  • funksands : Sue that’s awesome.

  • choicelady : Sue! Can you send your daughter’s story to me to post to our staff. I don’t go public with such things, but they need to hear that.

  • funksands : But if I did sign up on the exchanges, it would be $400 cheaper a month than I could get on the open market. Of course, up until now, I couldn’t have gotten health insurance anyway because I’m unisurable.

  • choicelady : funk – SUPER STORY!!!!

  • funksands : Murph, mine own story is going to be really great, but I don’t have to sign up for the ACA until 2015. I’ve got group coverage through the end of 2014 per contract.

  • choicelady : Murph – great analysis of Palin’s decline.

  • kesmarn : She acts like she’s a bit “jacked,” KT.

  • SueInCa : Murph my daughter got the silver plan for 98 a month

  • choicelady : KT – passed a homeless man last week who asked the guy ahead of me for an orange. The guy said “Whaddo I look like – a supermarket?” So I stopped and gave the homeless guy a couple of dollars he used to buy an orange at the little store where he was standing. The rich guy said “Don’t give him anything – he will just buy drugs!” Then he proceeded to tell people he encountered about ME. If I’d given a rat’s ass about him, I’d have said,I sure hope you don’t think you’re a Christian. But I said nothing just gave him ” The Look”.

  • KillgoreTrout : I could see Palin using “momma’s little helper.”

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GOOD ON YA FUNK….I hoped you would tell your own story. You left that for me at HP and it is making the rounds there. If you hadn’t told it here, I would have spilled the beans.

  • SueInCa : As vets were calling them horrible Adlib

  • kesmarn : :lol: That’s what I’m hearing, funk!

  • SueInCa : LOL Murph that is funny and luckily so true

  • funksands : Kes, let’s just say that there’s always a little bit less snow in Alaska when the Palins are in town.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- one of the GOP pundits who is not a favorite with the TP said that Palin used to fill arenas, and then it was theaters, and then it was auditoriums and then it was meeting rooms and now it’s just space.

  • AdLib : Palin and Cruz at the war memorial, decrying the using of veterans as political pawns has to be put in all dictionaries as the ultimate definition of “hypocrisy”.

  • kesmarn : funk, that is great news!

  • SueInCa : meth labs she probably owns one

  • kesmarn : True, c’lady. And there is speculation that she may keep herself from getting bored by a bit of chemical — shall we say — enhancement?

  • funksands : Murph, here’s my assistant’s story:My assistant got on the WA State website and signed up for her policy today. (We are a tiny tiny company of three). She’s 60. Sh’e’s currently paying $369 a month for a $3500 deductible. With subsidies (she does qualify) the silver plan for a $1500 deductible with Group Health costs her $191 a month. Website worked without a hitch.

  • KillgoreTrout : I read an article the other day about the booming business for survival shelters. Of course the majority of people on the comment thread were all saying they are stocking up on plenty of guns and ammunition. What a portrait of their utter selfishness. They would rather shoot those in need, than giving them a helping hand.

  • choicelady : Palin has the RWNJ meme down pat: Noun, verb, Obama is a traitor!

  • SueInCa : She is desperate for attention and he ignores her, you do not ignore the half governor

  • choicelady : kes – to be bored, you’d have to take yourself far less seriously than Palin takes her own sweet self.

  • AdLib : Heh, that Palin babble was just hilarious. I thought it would all come to a crescendo with her screaming out “9/11!” Then marching around in a circle while humming “America the Beautiful”.

  • glenn : Kes–it’s pretty hard to get bored with something when you only have one synapse firing in your brain. You have nothing else to compare it to.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- Megan looked like she was cursing Roger Ailes with every fiber of her being…..

  • choicelady : Murph – I send stories like that to Twitter and they DO get around.

  • SueInCa : Yep glenn. she is an idiot

  • kesmarn : Got to thinking the other day: I’ve never heard a Palin speech that had any other theme than hatred of the Prez. You’d think even she would get bored with it.

  • choicelady : funk – my folks were big on Manhattans and used rye for a time. Went back to bourbon though. I never like any of it. I am pretty much a wine person. Or margaritas.

  • SueInCa : Hairyanna? I have not heard that name in a long while, let’s try to make it even longer.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks to all who replied to the ACA Story of the Week (rather full of myself am I. Yoda talking is me too.)Seriously.. .yes, yes, yes, the word re. the success has to get out. I intend to republish that one a lot. With the permission of the person who wrote it…..WHO AND THIS IS THE PUNCHLINE IS A D-O-C-T-O-R….I VERIFIED THIS OFF HP’S SITE……

  • glenn : Sue–are you talking about the megankelly interview of palin? I could see that kelly was having a hard time keeping a straight face with all of the word salad palin was vomiting. What a vile, evil woman palin is!

  • AdLib : Thanks Funk! The Repubs make writing articles against them so easy!

  • choicelady : kes – yup. I saw a tweet about how horrible and dangerous the site is. She’s a fifth columnist so what can you expect?

  • SueInCa : That woman is an idiot

  • choicelady : Sue – missed that Palinism. Wow.

  • funksands : Rocks is good. Releases the flavors better. Makes a good manhattan, but that’s about it.

  • kesmarn : Leave it to HP to ack-sent-yoo-ate the negative. What a fraud Aryana is.

  • SueInCa : Or in the words of Palin “syria in that civil war against a civil war” SMH

  • choicelady : funk – actually sounds good. Up or on the rocks – mixed with anything?

  • KillgoreTrout : Kurt had a real knack for brevity.

  • funksands : CLady, its mostly like bourbon, but less sweet, less aromatic, and little smoother.

  • choicelady : glenn – LOL!!! That’s IT – Benghazi!

  • SueInCa : glenn :-)

  • choicelady : funk – sorry you’ve had a long week though.

  • glenn : CL–But that is a private company. They are allowed to make mistakes. The government cannot make mistakes because…Bengha zi…or something!

  • funksands : Hi Ad, great pieces over the last couple of days.

  • choicelady : funk – I doubt I’ve ever drunk rye. What’s it like?

  • AdLib : Hey Funk!

  • funksands : Hi CLady! Glenn!

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s a great story! These kinds of stories really need to be promoted as the slams against the website continue. I saw HP made the website problems their top story, using terms like “disastrous” to describe it. I do think it’s been a mess but to counter those who jump on the bandwagon of trying to describe the entire program as a train wreck just because the site has been messed up for a few weeks, stories of those who got policies, are saving money and being covered is what we need.

  • funksands : Hi Murph, sue, kes I;m sticking with Rye tonight. Long week.

  • choicelady : FUNK!!! Great to see you!

  • choicelady : KT – there is nothing else to say about how to live. Be nice.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, better than tilting at windmills.

  • SueInCa : Funk is in d house? Hey Funk

  • kesmarn : Hey, funk! Cup o’ tea?

  • funksands : Going well thanks, KT.

  • glenn : Hey Funk!

  • choicelady : Murph – I’ve had more trouble waiting for Southwest Airlines than for healthcare.gov. I try it often just to see. I tried to buy two blouses today from my fave online retailer – they screwed EVERYTHING UP. I’ve been using them for years, and they cannot even get my shipping address right despite its being ‘in the system’. But no one is sneering at THEM.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…hi…we have been sparring with dragons today have we not.

  • KillgoreTrout : Funk is in da house! How goes it funk?

  • glenn : Murph–I like your ACA story. May it be repeated for many people many times over, so people don’t have to go bankrupt for illnesses and/or prescriptions.

  • funksands : Hi everyone. That is a great story Murph.

  • KillgoreTrout : Absolutely CL. He was aked what his advice to the world would be and he answered “Be Nice.”

  • choicelady : Murph – BRAVO on that GREAT story!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GLENN…ask away..sharpens my response…just left a story that I think you will like.

  • kesmarn : c’lady. Exactly.

  • choicelady : KT – he had more morality in his little finger than any RWNJ today.

  • AdLib : Well be here, Sue, hurry back when you can!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : MY ACA Story of the Week: “My COBRA health insurance was about to expire so I first searched for health insurance back in September. I was rejected for “pre-existing conditions” by United Healthcare. I’m a healthy person but I’m also an honest person so I admitted on my application that I have some arthritis, a deviated septum and history of a benign polyp in my colon. They wanted no part of me so I was flat out rejected. A week or so ago I went to my state’s (Illinois) health insurance exchange and signed up for “gold” plan that provides better coverage than my old COBRA plan and will cost $273/month less. It did take awhile to figure out how to use the system. I kind of likened it to calling a business that is always “experiencing unusual call volume”. Eventually I was able to log in and there were I believe 65 plans to choose from. I clicked on a few of them that looked interesting to me and they lined them up side by side so I could compare. I chose one and they issued me a confirmation number and a few days later someone from the insurance company called me to welcome me and make sure I understood the specifics of the plan.” THAT IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK

  • choicelady : kes – any person of faith who gets that close to people such as Nixon always make me doubt their sincerity.

  • SueInCa : gotta take a quick break

  • AdLib : And think about it, the more that Repubs keep hammering on Obamacare, the more they will keep reminding the public of the shutdown and deficit ceiling extortion. So, it would be very clever and strategic to keep prodding them to respond to something about Obamacare.

  • choicelady : glenn – it WILL be successful. It’s really good care.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I miss the old guy, for sure. He was one of those terrible secular humanists! ;)

  • choicelady : Murph – I’d forgotten that was MO. I’ve also been watching the rape story. Auburn in Gentry County where the older girl’s family returned to is where my grandfather was from. I a delighted the case has been reopened and horrified what has happened to that family and the young woman.

  • kesmarn : I was never a big fan of Billy Graham back in the day. He seemed a little too needy when it came to cuddling up to power figures. And he did indeed set the stage for a world of pain down the road — however innocently.

  • AdLib : Even if it excites the Repubs, if the ACA site’s problems delay people from being able to sign up, I have no doubt that one way or another, Obama will accommodate it.

  • glenn : CL and Murph–thanks for being so patient with my questions. As I said, I really want the ACA to be a success, so much so that r/tps have to choke on the law we “rammed down their throats”.

  • SueInCa : but I am not sure he really thought that far or that deep ahead. Bill Bright and Loren Cunningham were the real devils in this mess.

  • choicelady : KT – cool Vonnegut site!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- our legislature passed a law that would have required our police to arrest FBI agents enforcing gun trafficking laws…so no surprise

  • choicelady : Sue – yup. Even MY eyes glaze over with all that!

  • glenn : CL–I’m glad to hear it. I so want ALL of the pubs’ lies to be exposed by the reality of the ACA working for the people of our country.

  • KillgoreTrout : «link»

  • AdLib : CL – What made Billy Graham so dangerous in retrospect is how he was mainstreamed by Presidents, the media, etc. when in fact, he was laying the groundwork for the religious insanity we are now haunted by.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- there will be bumps created by the site’s clunkiness BUT health insurance is a MUST so the word will spread and it will do as it promised.

  • SueInCa : Tje problem with the RR is that there are so many tenacles that a person’s eyes kind of glaze over when you try to explain.

  • choicelady : kes – Franklin is one evil dude.

  • choicelady : glenn – people have until Dec. 15 to enroll for Jan. 1 implementation. They have until March 31 to enroll at ALL. So people WILL be able to get covered.

  • glenn : Murph–do you think the problems now will affect people signing up? I mean in the long run? Will people just give up?

  • choicelady : Murph – sorry the state has thrown up such road blocks to you all.

  • choicelady : glenn – all the state sites are working fine. The system was just overloaded – it shows how desperate people are.

  • kesmarn : Oh Lord, maybe his arteries have really hardened, c’lady. Franklin is horrible!

  • AdLib : KT – You socialist you. Oh wait, the VA is for US veterans who fought for democracy…but they are also socialists for accepting medical care back for their service? I’m so confused!!!

  • SueInCa : K’es I never liked him but that surely does not make him evil. Back in his time, that is how they “saved” the masses. He is nowher near as bad as his son

  • choicelady : kes – Billy Graham was, by comparison to others, pretty mod. But he’s given in to his own freaking extremist son, Franklin, and he’s now expounding on the End Times, too. Yuck.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…how is it going….numbers say that it is going slow….and it is…but it is steady and the website gets better every couple of days. I hope it will be fully functional shortly.

  • SueInCa : CL I learned the differenxce in Religion and heresy

  • choicelady : Sue – Oh. I like you the way you are, and anyway, you think for yourself. I’d make a lousy evangelist, wouldn’t I?

  • kesmarn : And I think Frank Schaeffer does try to be fair and say that Billy Graham never intended his preaching to have the consequences that it has had.

  • glenn : CL–Don’t you live in CA? From what I’ve read, the website is working much better in states that have accepted the ACA. Is it working in all states?

  • KillgoreTrout : Fortunately, I have the closest thing to single payer, the VA.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Missouri boxed it in. Employment (and therefore liability insurance) is the key AND all actual enrollers operating in the state have to pass the insurance agent exam. Only a handful have done this…..so we have gone the route of counselors who bridge to the website or phone bank…..which is why I am so frustrated with the site.

  • SueInCa : Megan Kelly KT, no reasoning goes on in that head

  • AdLib : Murph – Great imagery! That would make a great parody graphic!

  • choicelady : Sue – but you fell into my clutches, and…nothing changed. How’d THAT happen?

  • SueInCa : I agree Adlib, I was always the black sheep when it came to religion in my house.

  • choicelady : glenn – last I looked this afternoon, healthcare.gov was fine. It will be down this weekend for upgrade AND to begin adding Spanish versions of the pages.

  • AdLib : Graham was insidious because of how legitimized he became.

  • KillgoreTrout : For sure Sue. I just wonder what their “reasoning,” is for such a claim. I know reasoning is not their strong suit.

  • SueInCa : Bingo K’es

  • kesmarn : That would be the infamous Megyn Kelly of FOX.

  • choicelady : Murph – I know that about Enrollers. If you could get your CHURCH to be an agency, well then…

  • glenn : Murph and CL–So..how is the website working? And, Murph, as far as going on my state site, I live in GA, where the AG has boasted about how they are trying to sabotage the ACA website. And..I’m not asking for myself; I have my insurance; I was just curious as to other avenues people might take considering the problems with the website.

  • SueInCa : Well it came from one of the bimbos on Fox so it does not work and does not have to make sense

  • choicelady : Sue – WTF? Native Americans are IMMIGRANTS?????? Who dreamed THAT up?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I have an image of Ted and Rand and Mike on the prow of the ship, each leaning seductively into the other with Ted yelling “I’m the King of the Party”

  • choicelady : glenn – no, not yet. Private insurance has been grandfathered, and most policies will eventually come under federal rules but not immediately.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue, how’s that supposed to work? According to those who profess such a thing?

  • kesmarn : Sue I was surprised to learn that myself… :lol:

  • choicelady : kes – Yup. It will be very hard to keep ANY red letters if that project moves forward much.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I am trained and could enroll IF I worked for an agency. I am a volunteer so I do not have access to the enrollment site. This is a legal issue apparently involving state insurance agent rules.

  • choicelady : Murph – thanks – I forgot to add that about the subsidy.

  • SueInCa : Did you all know that Native Americans are now really immigrants?

  • choicelady : KT – they actually are NOT that few in number. We are just invisible in MSM and lefty land. Across the country we pretty much equal the slavering Right in numbers. Each of us is about 1/3. Catholics take up the remaining third – and they are GREAT on some issues and purely suck on others.

  • glenn : Murph and CL–Aren’t all insurance companies now required to follow the tenets of the ACA? You know, no pre-existing conditions, etc., etc.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, just saw your comment about purging the Bible of all the liberal comments. Wow… they’ll have to Wite-Out all the red words in the New Testament. Jesus was as liberal as they come.

  • AdLib : CL – Yep, you gotta love fundies who claim that the Bible is the word of God…then have no reservation about editing “God” to take out the parts that are politically inconvenient.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- The subsidy application happens through the website or the 800 number coupled to the insurance options application. But you can refer to any of the companies in the exchange of your state being sure to tell them that you are doing this in lieu of using the site. So, yes, but it is best to use the site. As to an estimate…the Kaiser calculator has proven very accurate.

  • SueInCa : It is interesting Adlib and I think he is right about Billie Graham, have ever since I first had someone try to save me lol

  • choicelady : glenn – hit the send – need someone who is, like Murph, a Certified Enroller.

  • KillgoreTrout : No CL, I was just comparing REAL persecution as to conceived persecution. I have nothing against genuine Christians. But they are few in number, here in the good ole USA!

  • choicelady : glenn – you need to be careful with insurance agents. Not all of them handle ACA, and if you take up regular insurance it is MUCH more expensive, does not yet cover what ACA plans do, and are subject to huge spikes in premium costs. That’s the problem – you need to get someone who is a

  • AdLib : Murph – You sure what’s going on is not the GOP rebuilding the Titanic for another Cruz?

  • SueInCa : I know the diff between real christians and radical right wing nut jobs, no fear CL

  • choicelady : Hey Sue – be careful with that feeding Christians to the lions thingy – remember the RWNJs think that should be ME.

  • AdLib : Sue – Just skimmed it but anxious to read the whole article. Thanks!

  • glenn : Hey Murph, I have a question for you. For all of those people who are having difficulty with the ACA website, can’t they just call the insurance companies directly and sign up for insurance? That’s what I did back in August. I was in a different situation because I had to get supplemental insurance for Medicare, but still I got the names of 3 or 4 insurance companies and just called them directly. If you’re not eligible for subsidies, can’t you just call the insurance companies directly? And, on a related note, is there anywhere else besides the official website if you can find out if you’re eligible for subsidies?

  • choicelady : KT – I feel you’re about to take the side of the lions, right? Those were good folks way back then. Wish we could bring that sort back. You’ll just have to live with us liberal types.

  • SueInCa : It sounds like a sport to be renewed KT

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice as Sarah P, the Tundra Queen, would say “you betcha…and all of those other unpatriotic Americans which includes the RINO’s and there’s a heard of them that badly need hunting down.”

  • SueInCa : Pretty much, they have nothing to lose, they are going to be in Heaven’s Denny’s or spelling signs wrong with Jesus and be laughing at us all.

  • choicelady : AdLib – remember there is a conservative project to purge the Bible of ALL liberal ideas. So freaking much for the ‘inerrant word of God’.

  • KillgoreTrout : Feeding Christians to the lions, NOW THAT was persecution!

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, no doubt glenn. FOX has already cried “religious persecution.”

  • choicelady : Murph – at whom is the Death Panel Star directed? Us?

  • AdLib : Sue – I assume he addressed the desire of these reigious nuts to bring about the apocalypse and the Second Coming. Right, Jesus will surely want to reward the people who champion oppression and suffering of the poor. Did they read the Bizarro bible or what?

  • choicelady : Sue – if Frank himself weren’t such a perfect shit, I’d be happier, but he is correct here.

  • SueInCa : Hey Murph, how are you?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Howdy Kesman and AdLib and Choice Lady and Glenn and Kilgore Trout and Sue in California…… there was a deep movement in the Force this week and the dark side was thwarted for the moment but the dark Emperor Cruz is rebuilding his Death Panel Star.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Greg and I were coming home from dinner past a woman who was writing large upon the air. PLEASE let ACA work – there’s mental health parity in it!

  • SueInCa : Take a read of this y’all, I think Frank hit the nail on the head…. «link»

  • glenn : KT–And, if the stenographer does lose her job, she will be on foxso-callednews again crying about how she lost her job because she is a “christian”.

  • choicelady : glenn the little c is fine. These are really Old Testamentarians for whom Jesus is just the ‘get out of jail free’ card. Christians? Nope.

  • AdLib : KT – As I used the definition of sociopaths for the GOP, if you look up the symptoms of schizophrenia, you’ll see what this steno nutjob claims as fitting. There are lots of mentally ill people out there.

  • KillgoreTrout : Que pasa Murph!

  • glenn : Hey Murph!

  • choicelady : Hi Murph!

  • kesmarn : KT, I think at the very least she’ll be on a long leave, and when she comes back it won’t be to the House floor.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Sabreen tweeted me directly that yes, Cruz has been “anointed” just as Perry was a year ago. That, in their world, is serious shit. It means you’re the chosen of the chosen.

  • SueInCa : Adlib Frank Schaeffer did a good post the other day on why the right is not afraid of letting the government go down. I think he hit it on the mark. I will try to find it

  • glenn : Kes and Sue–I think the fact that her husband said that they are fundamentalist christians (sorry for the little “c” CL, but these are not people who follow Christ), so that explains it all.

  • AdLib : Hey Murph, welcome!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph!

  • KillgoreTrout : The sad thing is CL, she considers it a “gift of the spirit.” She will probably lose her job, if she hasn’t already.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well here you are and here am I….

  • AdLib : Sue – And I have read elsewhere about people sharing info about Cruz and his father being hard core dominionists.

  • choicelady : glenn – yeah. I never did find my way to the bathroom by the glow of my own stomach. Kinda disappointing. Kes had a MUCH better time of it!

  • SueInCa : Yes you did Kes

  • kesmarn : Sue, I think it’s that House steno who flipped out. And howdy! It seems like I just left you!

  • choicelady : AdLib – the mug is just GREAT. I’m very honored to have it!

  • AdLib : glenn – The public has seen first hand that the Repubs have caused all this terribleness. No amount of propaganda can convince the majority out of what they know from having witnessed themselves. It just makes the Repubs look more dishonest.

  • choicelady : KT – I gather this obsession is of long standing with the steno. I’m so sorry she is ‘possessed’.

  • glenn : CL–I’m glad you’re feeling well! Guess you’ll just have to glow in the dark some other time!

  • SueInCa : who are we feeling sorry for?

  • choicelady : kes – LOL!! We did not have kids to avoid. That’s pretty cool as a ‘side effect’ if you’re surrounded by rug rats.

  • AdLib : CL – SO glad you like the mug! Everything tastes better in a Morning Blog mug!

  • KillgoreTrout : I don’t they’ll keep her very long for observation. It’s usually only for 72 hours. Yeah, I feel a little sorry for her.

  • kesmarn : I had to stay away from children for a day also. Most peaceful day I’d had in a while. :lol:

  • SueInCa : He better

  • choicelady : glenn – yup. Wheat, dairy, eggs. My diet has become quite restrictive but is FINE – I have dumped about 15 pounds of bloat and whatever in one month. I LOVE feeling WELL again!

  • AdLib : Sue – God has heard your props and will be posting very soon!!!

  • choicelady : kes – Yes! My husband had that last December. Who knew HE glowed in the dark, too? He had an angioplasty, so they had possession of him while he ‘cooled down’.

  • glenn : CL–Yikes! So, have you found out what you’re allergic to?

  • SueInCa : I agree Adlib and keep exposing his Dominionist ties. People are not going to believe until they are reading a bible or in a camp

  • choicelady : KT – that would have been just sad, but she was interviewed today and has not backed off her assertions. My issue is – so what? If you don’t like America’s founding by Freemasons, go somewhere else. If you can find it. I am not as sympathetic as I was.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, after I had a PET scan this past spring they gave me a note to present to airport security — should I travel and set off alarms — that I was radoioactive for a good reason. Only for about 24 hours, though.

  • AdLib : Personally, I want Ted Cruz to stay in the Senate, look at the damage he’s done to the GOP. Keep him as an ongoing advertisement to vote Dem.

  • glenn : Kes–I hope Nate is correct. Hard to tell at this point. The rw propaganda machine is just getting started. I do see a few journalists trying to “push back” on the nonsense, but IMO, they’re being confrontational, instead of informative. And confrontation is just what the tpers are looking for.

  • choicelady : Hey back atcha, AdLib. Thank you for to gorgeous mug – it arrives safe and sound. You wrapped that sucker PERFECTLY, and it’s now my “mug of choice” so to speak.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey, how about that stenographer’s melt down?

  • SueInCa : They storm a monument but not the welfare offices?

  • kesmarn : Thanks, c’lady. There’s no point in wasting breath otherwise. I can think of more fun ways to spend my time than in debating clowns.

  • choicelady : glenn – I have fetched up with major food intolerances. I had to eat radioactive eggs Wed. to make sure there was nothing organically wrong – there’s not. I asked the assistant if I was dangerous to anyone, and she said no. Too bad – I was kind of hoping to be my own nightlight for a couple of days!

  • AdLib : Hey Choicelady!

  • SueInCa : Adlib where is God I am still waiting

  • AdLib : Hey Sue!

  • SueInCa : I love cars KT

  • AdLib : glenn – The Bagger logic is, “Government is evil and should be shut down but Obama is evil for letting government shut down all the government things that make people mad when they’re shut down!”

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks Sue, you had a lot of great picks.

  • SueInCa : CL I never know when a FB p[ost goes over to Twitter but I am glad they do

  • kesmarn : I hear that Nate Silver is predicting a Dem takeover of the House next year.

  • glenn : CL–I’m good–it’s getting a little cold here in GA, but otherwise can’t complain. What are you being scanned, tested, and ready for?

  • choicelady : kes – that’s strategic. Don’t debate unless there’s an innocent victim to be saved.

  • SueInCa : Hey KT loved the Music thread last saturday

  • choicelady : Sue – just saw your Tweet about the 2/3 Senate vote to oust Cruz – NOT beyond the realm of the possible. His own party hates him.

  • kesmarn : Right, glenn. For the most part, I’ve given up trying — unless there’s another person present whose mind is not made up. Then it’s worth debating.

  • KillgoreTrout : If we keep the heat on, 2014 will not be a good year for TPGOPers.

  • SueInCa : Fine CL, making friends and selling jewelry

  • glenn : CL–So you think that sedition petition by MoveOn.org is going nowhere?

  • choicelady : Hey Sue! How are you?

  • SueInCa : No you cannot glenn. they are nuts

  • choicelady : kes – we’re hanging in. Scanned, tested, and ready – we’re good to go. glenn – we’re pretty all right – how are YOU?

  • KillgoreTrout : Good evening Sue. Hope all is well.

  • glenn : Kes–well as AdLib says in his piece about sociopaths, you just can’t reason with these people.

  • SueInCa : Hi everyone. Everyone get their fingertips away from the brink?

  • choicelady : glenn – although tempting as it is to label the Cruz folks as seditious, terrorists, etc., what they are doing is totally legal. It’s done via the system and is covered under First Amendment. We don’t have much recourse.

  • KillgoreTrout : Me too glenn. They love to spread fear among their minions.

  • kesmarn : Hey, c’lady! How are you and hubby doing these days?

  • glenn : Hey CL–How are you?

  • kesmarn : Anyway — I’m hearing the standard lines from the Baggers. That the shutdown was a victory. (At the same time that it was Obama’s fault.) That Obamacare will bankrupt the country. All of it. They’re totally unfazed…

  • choicelady : Hi KT – yup. Pretty OK.

  • glenn : KT–That, too. So, doesn’t that make them (at least) subversives? If you’re trying to harm the government? I think it makes them terrorists!

  • choicelady : kes – you need to video your cat sabotaging your ‘send’ function. It would get HUGE following!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey CL, hope all is well!

  • choicelady : Good evening everyone – great to see you!

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn what gets me is that these anti-government people are employed by the very government they profess to hate.

  • kesmarn : …sorry, cat hit send.

  • AdLib : Kes – Just living here in CA and I’m sure people in other solid blue states feel that what’s going on with the Baggers is so otherwise foreign.

  • glenn : oops–and be “sad”, not “said”

  • kesmarn : I hear it from the

  • glenn : KT–Only in the minds of idiots who mistakenly label themselves patriots, could the shutting down of the government of the United States of America be a good thing. And poor li’l bachmann is “sad” that the government is running again. How can you call yourself a “patriot” and be said that the government of the US is functioning? I will never understand that. These people are just plain nuts, sociopathic, idiotic, and any other name you can think of. If that is what a “real” American acts like, then I must be one of them there socialist commies!

  • kesmarn : I’m thinking in the U.S., AdLib — although Ohio is a hotbed of crazy in many ways.

  • KillgoreTrout : Yeah, that’s about it. They’re batshit crazy, for sure.

  • AdLib : Kes – You mean here in the U.S. or in OH?

  • AdLib : KT – So Cruz wins at losing? That seems to be what the Repubs are reduced to, “We totally rule at losing!!!”

  • kesmarn : glenn and AdLib, it is. Unless you’re actually here, it’s hard to communicate the level of madness.

  • KillgoreTrout : Doing well kes.

  • AdLib : Hey Kes! That does seem challenging…es pecially if trying to promote that “American Exceptionalism” thing.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Homie! Dinner with the family these evening — nice. How’s all with you?

  • glenn : Kes–good evening. It is kind of unexplainable, isn’t it?

  • KillgoreTrout : What up Homie?

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, in a way, CRUZ did win (albeit temporarily) with the shudown because the TPers goal is to hurt the federal government. So, in that regard, he did “win.” In a psycopathic way.

  • AdLib : I do think the next conflict will be fascinating. The Baggers will be pushing for a decisive win while the majority of Repubs will be gunshy of establishing themselves as the Party of Losers.

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, friends. I have friends in other countries and I’ve spent a lot of time this past week trying to explain the unexplainable. It’s exhausting.

  • glenn : Ad–True, but unless the so-called “moderate” pubs rein in the crazies, don’t you think we’re going to go through all this again in Jan. or Feb.?

  • AdLib : glenn – That is great for us! If Repubs have retrenched to celebrating those who lead the GOP to its biggest defeats, good news for us!

  • glenn : Ad–It is hilarious watching them try to come to grips with their lunacy. But, then again, coming to grips with lunacy is kind of an oxymoron.

  • glenn : AdLib–according to the r/tp echo chamber, cruz is a hero, so for them, it worked out “well”. For the rest of us, while President Obama refused to let them extort the country, we still haven’t “won” anything.

  • AdLib : I’m fascinated by the schizophrenia running rampant in the GOP, they don’t know who to hate more, their own or Dems and Obama, what reality to believe in, it’s just amazing.

  • AdLib : So…how about that extortion plot by the GOP? Did that work out or what?

  • glenn : AdLib–No complaints here, either.

  • AdLib : KT – A lot of running round with the daughter, keeping up with the shutdown, a busy week indeed!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn!

  • KillgoreTrout : I’m good. Why so busy?

  • AdLib : A happy Friday to you glenn, can’t complain myself, you?

  • glenn : Hi KT!

  • AdLib : Hey KT! ENjoying a busy but good week. And you?

  • glenn : Republicide! And a good Friday evening to you, AdLib. How are you?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hi Ad, what’s up?

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “Republicide!” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

 

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