AdLib : Thanks Murph, best back to you, sleep well!
MurphTheSurf3 : Agreed. Midnight. I am in need of slumber. Have a good weekend. Best to you and yours.
AdLib : Murph – That’s great news, I was hoping that kind of thing would happen. As people flooded into the exchanges, the companies that rejected the exchanges would recognize how much they were losing out on and join in. Not bad that they will match but I would hope people wouldn’t get suckered in by them since they could turn around and change their terms whenever they chose. Hope people choose an exchange policy instead and the companies that wouldn’t join in relent and join the exchanges.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…absolutely . I have neighbors who have huge decisions to make and we are urging everyone to take the time they need. They have until March in this first open enrollment. Oh….here is something…two insurance companies in this state that are not in the exchange have now declared that they will match any other company’s bonafide offer. AND two major hospitals that were originally opting out of inclusion in coverage groups have changed their minds.
AdLib : Murph – It is outrageous that one wealthy man can control an entire state the way Pope does. I don’t know how NC climbs out of this snake pit.
AdLib : Murph – I see, so it is not surprising then that signups are few right now, most people are still looking through plans.
AdLib : It really is a kind of a state of siege that the GOP and states and towns dominated by the GOP are under. A kind of political tyranny, where free thought is attacked and conformity to hostile and destructive policies a requirement. They are like the Koch’s personal army, occupying parts of the nation.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad My student/friend is very disappinted. The city council, the mayor, are all running scared…Pope’s money reaches into every town.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- at this point people are registering with the sites and applying to get the bidding packets that show them their options. After they get those packets they can call the 800 number, or go to see a counselor, or go on line to have a chat. Signing up for a certain policy is the third step. WE are being told that it is important to let people find their way through the maze with a bit of help from us. For many of these people this is their first time dealing with something of this kind.
AdLib : Murph – That’s very disappointing to hear, how these baggers abuse democracy as a hammer on those who won’t conform and attack it as an enemy when it represents a threat to their forcing their will on others.
AdLib : Congrats on your teaching, CL! Teachers do get good calf muscles!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the very best to you and your fellow crusaders!
AdLib : CL and Murph – I keep hearing stories that the number of people registered under the exchanges is in the single digits. Is that true?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- I have a former student with whom I regularly communicate who was a Chicago cop and has been a NC sheriff for 10 years now. The TP in his little corner of that state is NOT happy with him because he has made it clear that efforts to intimidate voters will not be tolerated. SO….they are pushing the city council to change the method of getting a sheriff from selection by the council to election. All in the name of Democracy. He says everyone knows that their plan is to force their choice on the electorate. His sweet little town is in chaos.
choicelady : Dear and beloved friends – I seriously have nothing left in me to carry on. Thank you both for all you are doing for justice. I love being here knowing you both are. And now – to bed. I am discovering that teaching a new class for two hours on my feet is no longer something I do without consequence. I’m exhausted! See you next week!
AdLib : CL – It’s a perfect storm for them. Democracy is not viable for these extremists, it is in fact antithetical to their concept of a religious state. So, either way they need to subvert democracy but now it is no longer a choice, they have no other path now that they’ve poisoned a majority against them.
choicelady : AdLib – it also had delays due to overwhelming demand Tuesday-yesterda y. Better now I think. A LOT of people thought they could register ONLY now. They are sighing a large sigh of relief they can think about it for a bit. But the need is CLEARLY there.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks. All that you do in CA is speaking to the nation.
choicelady : AdLib – I honestly think it’s actually more pernicious than just having this as their last stand – it is what they truly desire. It is part of their belief that the NATION can be reborn as a Christian capitalist state crafted and thus renewed by their guidance for Jesus and God. SERIOUSLY think that is the driving motive.
AdLib : CL – Was the CA Exchange website working well?
choicelady : Murph – we are trying to get our folks to think about going the next step to becoming a Certified Enrollment Counselor which is what we call a Navigator. I am SO impressed with YOU and what you are doing! It is critical work. Thank you for doing it.’
AdLib : CL – Well, the GOP has accepted that they can’t get what they want through democracy because they’ve alienated the majority. They’re not the type to accept defeat so instead, they’ve plotted on how to subvert democracy to get what they want. This is their only path anymore.
choicelady : Murph – we have had out folks out in the world getting HUGE reception from people. The CA Exchange was overwhelmed by calls just as the national web and phone were. People WANT this. I loved the Stephen Colbert comment that this overwhelming response proves no one wants it or some such. Very funny – if I could remember it.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I had my first day today as a Navigator…real ly moving. I heard so many stories of desperation and of relief that fluctuated between sadness/anxiety/ fear/anger about the lack of meaningful health care for “people like us.”
AdLib : Murph – That makes a lot of sense as to why Boehner is so vulnerable as a Speaker. His fear of being taken down is greater than any worry about going down in history as the worst Speaker in US history or in being seen as a spineless coward.
choicelady : Murph – I heard that from a Dem and was shocked. These GOP homewreckers are seriously wishing to kill democracy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- my good friend. SO good to see you. Any ACA experiences to share?
MurphTheSurf3 : The Dems have accepted a CR that is at the Ryan level…and still the GOP pushes for more concessions….t hat says it all.
choicelady : Hi AdLib – good to see you, too.
AdLib : Hey CL! Great to see you!
choicelady : Hi you two. I’m in and out in a trice – I’m so tired my eyes are crossing. Read your assessments and think they may be the way Boehner goes, but I personally would like to see a revolt by the mods (and yes, I understand the oxymoronic conjunction there) to hoist him on his own petard. Other than that – how are you both?
AdLib : Murph – Boehner has in other instances, not followed that BS Hastert Rule and I think that’s what will eventually happen here but he has to posture against it until he gets a backroom agreement with Obama on a face-saving “win” that will come after that. Still, they are getting a drastically cut CR just as they wanted with the sequester cuts still in it, that is an unqualified win for them in any case.
MurphTheSurf3 : A friend of mine who really understands the culture of blue collar politicians (and that is still what B is) says that once they succeed their worst nightmare is to be taken down as it seems to them be the undoing of all they are….such insecurity.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….I agree with your scenario….for the sake of, in the hope of future deal making AND, maybe, making room for a moderate resurgence…the O folk will those B a bone. Boehner has to make a choice- does the Tea Party kneecap him or the Plutocrats break his neck. Some choice.
AdLib : Murph – How do you think the SHutdown-Debt Ceiling will finally resolve?
AdLib : Murph – That makes the most sense, having time to see what’s going on and all.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…I PROMISE to make the time this week….you do know that I screen capture four or five a week and drop them into an archive folder entitled: “Sally on Sunday”
AdLib : Murph – Hmm…I don’t know for sure but I think it will be like I described below. Obama and Dems will make an unofficial deal as a face saver for Boehner, like dropping the tax on medical devices, but only after the CR and Debt Ceiling get a vote and are passed. Obama and Dems will claim it was not connected to the hostage taking and Boehner and Repubs will crow about how they won something…butt hough their PR will pump that up, Obamacare will be going strong and their victory will be meager.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad..probably…b ut it will be weeks before I get a good sense of what I am doing and can see the trends.
AdLib : Night Sally! Sleep well!
SallyT : I welcome suggestions, Murph, and especially yours. Trust me, AdLib, I am getting better at lining them up and remembering to put the date on! Murph, you let me know if you like the first one this week, if nothing else. Night Guys!
AdLib : So Murph, would you consider posting an article about your experiences as a Navigator? I think it would really be enlightening.
MurphTheSurf3 : Well…Ad…you and me again…..May I ask you how you see the Shutdown/Debt Ceiling Thing playing out?
MurphTheSurf3 : Good night, Sally….and bravo.
AdLib : See you then, Sally!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…in no way are any of my suggestions a critique….I just want your extraordinary work appreciated and discussed..So… all I can do is give you the occasional standing ovation and make a comment here or there.
SallyT : Okay, I will leave you two to your conversation and see you in the Funnies!
SallyT : Murph, I might do that one of these times. But, AdLib will tell you that I don’t get done with them anymore until way late Saturday night or the wee hours of Sunday morning. Once I get them lined up, I just don’t want to pull them out again. And, my favorites change through the week. But, I will try that one of these times. But, like I said earlier, my very favorite is the first one this Sunday. I hope it makes you laugh!
AdLib : Sally – I thought Tea Partiers WERE cartoons.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…here is a thought…maybe a good one….how about taking 10 or so cartoons that are, in your judgement, “the best of the week”, and put them first in the list…..I quick review gives the casual viewer a sense of the week that was. Then folks like me can dive in deep. I wonder….
AdLib : Sally, you can Google this, it’s well known all around the web. The amount of readers at a website is massively more than the small percentage of those who actually post there. It’s a surprisingly small fraction. Some of our posts that have a lot of traffic, have fewer comments because people are content after they read the post and have nothing to add.
SallyT : The Tea Party Cartoonist are the worst but I guess you both expected that. I only put a few in so you can see how nuts they can be on things.
SallyT : Murph, I though about maybe add a few of the worst at the bottom sometime just so you can spit at your computer, too.
AdLib : Murph – Though I’m not one to offer much advice to the GOP, if enough reasonable Repubs stand up, they outnumber the baggers and can wrest the party back from those lunatics. They would be heroes to most Repubs for doing so and would benefit in elections afterwards. The fear in Repubs is so strong though, even their Speaker has been frightened into subservience, I don’t know that it will ever happen.
SallyT : I do sometimes wonder if I am alone on there.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…How about doing a special edition at some time featuring the Dark Side…..the worst of….oh never mind…your judgment in this is really the best one…I think that balance, your approach, is best.
SallyT : You both are very welcome and I trust you will tell me, AdLib, if no one is looking at them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- the Congressman is on his third term and he replace a member who had 7 or 8. He is a businessman and thoroughly decent. Every time there is a town hall- a TP contingent shows up to make it clear that they suspect he is a RINO and to keep him on a short leash. I told the Congressman that it is they who are the Rinos…all he did was smile sadly.
SallyT : Well, you don’t see all that I have to see. Some just burn me so bad that I fear my laptop may hit the wall. I give you just a sample of the dark side.
AdLib : Sally, adding my thanks as well for all the great work you do, Sally. The Funnies are very popular! And what a great way to spend Sunday morning…withou t getting newsprint all over my fingers.
AdLib : Murph – The real question Repubs refuse to answer is, “How can you stop your party from shrinking?” There is no long term thinking, all they do to energize their base, anti-women, anti-Latino, anti-student, etc. is baking in the GOP as the enemy to the demos that will be deciding most elections in the future. They think so short term…I guess that’s a good thing, just hate having to wait for 2020 until our democracy is righted.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…thanks.. ..and as always thanks for opening up the pages of a dozen newspapers for us to sample…what a service…the images and words are snapshots
SallyT : I am glad to hear that, Murph, and I don’t expect you to comment every time but I do like it when you do.
AdLib : Murph – Great to hear you delivered such straight talk to him. I suppose that in their bubbles, in the red states they dominate, they are insulated from the reality of America as a whole. And the whole demographics thing is going to take down the GOP eventually anyway unless they get back to having at least one foot in reality.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- Hi….I did not get a chance to do my review last week….my thought and my intention are a sorry substitute…but even when pressed for time….I read em all.
SallyT : And, just for you Murph, I put my very most favorite one first!
AdLib : Sally – I had a feeling that this would be a bumper week for funnies! Looking forward to it!
SallyT : So far I have about 8 really favorite ones, Murph!
AdLib : I mean, is Mr. Burns on The Simpsons really so far away from some actual Republicans?
MurphTheSurf3 : The Chief of Staff had called me to ask if I would serve on a reelection committee for his boss. I am know in the area and carry the independent label. The Dems have put forth some really lame candidates. I told the Chief that things had gotten so bad with his Party that anyone was better than any GOP. He looked hurt. I told him it was not personal but that the Party seemed to be wrapped up in a kind of murder/suicide pact.
SallyT : This Sunday there are going to be a lot of them and some really good ones, too!
AdLib : Hey Sally! Good to see ya, even if briefly!
SallyT : Hi AdLib and Murph! I just dropped in to say Hi! Got to go post on my funnies.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, Dickens is one of my fave authors. And it may be cliche to say now but it is kind of sad that the Repubs of today make fictional villains look more reasonable (though of course Scrooge is redeemed and not a true villain).
AdLib : Murph – Yes, I know that and really appreciate your perspective, coming from where you are. It does come down to party control now, not individual Reps and I really hope the DNC pushes that in 2014. Basically saying, no matter how you may like your Repub Rep, voting for any Repub is voting for more crises and shutdowns.
MurphTheSurf3 : I am fond of posting the dialogue between Scrooge and the men soliciting donations to the Poor Fund in A Christmas Carol….Do you know it? Scrooge declares that the poor, once they are of no use, had best die and deplete the surplus population. This is no longer an over the top analogy for many in the GOP.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…as you know I was GOP for many years (at the Presidential and Senatorial level) and a Dem locally and on the state level….I had a conversation with the chief of staff for “my” GOP Congressman. My Rep is a decent guy- old fashioned Republican who has kept the TP at a distance. I told his Chief that I could never support his boss again because of his party- he is tainted, stained.
AdLib : I’ve been without health care, I know how nerve wracking it can be and how costly just one trip to the emergency room can be without insurance. I can only imagine the terrible times so many of these people have been through and the loved ones they’ve lost that would be around today if only they had insurance.
AdLib : Murph – That is what’s so angering and ironic, the Repubs are fighting for more Americans to die of inadequate health care. That should incense all Americans but the prejudices of Republicans provides the desire for rationalizing how fighting for the deaths of other Americans is “good for America”.
KillgoreTrout : Thanks for all you do Ad. I hope you like the theme.
AdLib : Night KT, sleep well! Thanks for posting the music thread so early! See you over the weekend!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- I spent a lot of time today “hand holding” If I heard “if only my dad had had this chance….” in lots of ways.
AdLib : Murph – No question that Pelosi worked hard to pass some big and profound legislation. It is very cool to see the first woman Speaker of the House being held in such high regard.
KillgoreTrout : Thanks Murph. Have a great weekend.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT– dream on….
AdLib : Murph – Very powerful impressions. I have heard some say that the first wave of people have been very emotional, those who have been suffering without health insurance, those who have been living in desperation and fear, how can any human being in this country not want so much for these people to finally have some relief from what they’ve been going through? As for the poor in the Repub states refusing Medicaid support, I wonder if they will indeed be part of a faction that rises up to change things in their states.
KillgoreTrout : Well good gents, the NSA has tacked the Sandman and he is rapidly approaching. Fair thee well.
MurphTheSurf3 : As to Pelosi- scholars who have studied the role and effectiveness of Speakers rank her in the top tier of the 52 who have help the #3 position in the government along with: Sam Rayburn. Tip O’Neill, Dennis Hastert, Thomas Reed, Henry Clay, Joe Cannon. Matt Green of Yale and Catholic U work “The Speaker of the House: A Study of Leadership” spells this out. Others like Ormstein, Pitney and Fellowes generally agree. She is one of the 8 great ones.
KillgoreTrout : Poor Fantine! Disgusting to realize in 21st century America. You know, the “exceptional nation.”
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- the line was bouncing around HP today.
KillgoreTrout : Boehner is no true leader. By procedure yes. In truth, no.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad (and KT) what is clear as one begins to work with people on insurance options is that they are desperate and now feel that they can give voice to that. Also, a number of people are discovering how much they are being overcharged in their current policy. Finally, those who are working poor and should have the expanded medicaid which my state turned down are outraged. Les Mis????
AdLib : As we’ve seen though, Boehner is as small and selfish as they come, insecure and spineless, he is a mouse who thinks he’s a man.
AdLib : Murph – I wish Boehner could be the guy you suggested, someone who thought bigger and saw the opportunity to stand up at a time of such pettiness to be a real leader…and respected for being so.
AdLib : Murph – That is a great line!!! Where did that quote come from?
KillgoreTrout : Can’t argue that.
AdLib : Murph, very interested to hear about your experience.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- was off line when you all were talking about Boehner. Quote of the day: It’s tough being Boehner . Half your reputation is ruined by lies, the other half is ruined by the truth! C
AdLib : KT – Cynicism makes for great comedy bits though!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….I worked today for the first time as a navigator and it was a stunningly moving experience…..
KillgoreTrout : I think cynicism is never a good thing. Skepticism, is another matter.
AdLib : KT – Sometimes cynicism is critically required. In other cases, it is the lazy person’s way of appearing intelligent when merely echoing the thoughts of others.
AdLib : Murph – It’s like someone coming to a restaurant and a chef instant cooking a multi-course dinner for everyone the moment they’re seated, despite the fact that they may only want a small dinner. If a chef did that for every diner, his kitchen would slow to a crawl and there would be so much wasted time, delaying everyone else. That’s kind of what that site is like now by the descriptions.
KillgoreTrout : To state an earlier quote, ….”cynicism is obdeience.” This is of course in referrence to the TPers and rabid RWers. Cynicism is their whole world.
AdLib : And takes a longer time to load as well as slows down the site, sending all that unnecessary data to EVERYONE who clicks on the home page.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…you confirm what others say….
AdLib : Murph – I could get really nerdy on this but a CSS file is what a website uses to define how its pages looks. Loading 11 versions immediately of different pages with different designs is kind of ridiculous.
AdLib : Murph – As a web site guy myself, I can absolutely see how such a site could be messed up with bad coding but with the standards out there today, it really shouldn’t be happening. There are clean and pragmatic ways to code operations on a site. This is the downside of government, too many cooks sometimes.
KillgoreTrout : Good night glenn. Always glad to see you here.
MurphTheSurf3 : Nite Glenn
AdLib : glenn – Batten down the hatches and take care of yourself!
AdLib : Make that Daily Show!
AdLib : Here’s the link to that Saily show segment, go to 2:00 minutes to see Hannity with “The Obama Shutdown” backdrop: «link»
KillgoreTrout : Thr RWNJ always try to make congressional showdowns about Obama hinself. I’ sorry to say, it has been very effective among the RWNJs.
glenn : Okay, folks, I’m following Kes out the door. I hope everyone has a great weekend, and that you have some of this great weather we’re experiencing here in GA. Ours may be over by Sunday night, when Karen is expected to come though, so I’m going to enjoy it while I can.
MurphTheSurf3 : ad…that would make sense…
KillgoreTrout : Oh Ad, that makes more sense. FOX and the GOPTP are trying their best to make people beive the shutdown is Obama’s fault, even though the whole thing is a matter of congressional deliberation.
AdLib : Murph – I heard they’re shutting the website down this weekend for repairs and to expand capacity, hope it’s working smoothly by next week!
glenn : KT–The “Obama” shutdown was a banner running on fox news channel while TDS was skewering fox. That’s also where I saw the Hannity “liberal” shutdown. If it wasn’t for Jon Stewart showing us the inannity of Hannity, I wouldn’t know what they say on fox. Nor do I care.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad The website is still glitchy but the phone center is working fine and the walk ins to Navigators are going well. This will gather momentum
AdLib : KT – Sorry, I explained that poorly. Stewart showed a clip from Hannity and Hannity had the “Obama Shutdown” on the screen behind him.
AdLib : glenn – Yep, loved the thick binder of insulting names for Repubs he had to use.
AdLib : Murph – That’s good to hear. Chris Hayes was describing it tonight as non-functional, that most people can’t sign up.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, that must have been sarcasm or satire. I’m pretty sure TDS knows who is at fault here.
AdLib : KT – Yep, clueless types like Boehner that have unjustifiably inflated opinions of themselves and are in fact seen as weasels.
glenn : Ad–that’s where I saw the “liberal” shutdown meme–on The Daily Show. BTW, did you see how Jon was almost speechless the other night when he was trying to come up with names for republicans?
AdLib : glenn – I saw a Jon Stewart skewering of Fox and he had a backdrop that said something like, “The Obama Shutdown”.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I was sharing earlier that ACA is off to a fast start here despite the glitches-
AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I’ve met some Boehner types before. He sure fits the mold.
AdLib : Murph – Low info folk like her are indeed bad for our democracy. They are too easily convinced of propaganda like death panels and unable to act on their own behalf because they have no clue about how decisions in DC truly affect their lives. Well, maybe she and others who are hurt by this will realize they need to be better informed…by 2014.
glenn : Good night, Kes. Nice “chatting” with you.
KillgoreTrout : Sleep well Homie! Have a great weekend.
glenn : Kes and Ad–I agree. I had such high hopes for AJA. While I don’t want them to have these hesaid/shesaid “analysts” shows, I would think that straight-up reporting would be better. And, speaking of “straight-up reporting” (she said, tongue-in-cheek) , Hannity is referring to the government shutdown as the “liberal” shutdown. Gotta “love” the fair and balanced approach.
MurphTheSurf3 : bye Kes….
kesmarn : Wow, kids. 11:30 already. Guess I should call it a day. Have a wonderful weekend everyone!
AdLib : Hey Murph! You should set up a voicemail just for Fridays, “You’ve reached Murph but I am having a live chat at The Planet right now…”
MurphTheSurf3 : Did anyone see the interview with a black woman who is a secretary at an army base and in the course of the interview revealed that she did not know about the possibility of the shutdown until it happened and then still expected to be exempt because she worked for the government and then went to shop at the post commissary and was surprised it was closed and then said she blamed the whole government but especially the Congress for not working hard since Obama (who she said she like and voted for) can’t seem to make it work…..I LITERALLY SCREAMED. This is the kind of person who did not show up in 2010.
AdLib : KT – That wouldn’t be surprising. Most of these Repubs though seem to come well equipped with delusions of greatness and superior intellect, to normal, reasonable people, they come off as fools.
glenn : Just looked it up. His name is John Siegenthaler.
AdLib : glenn – That’s disappointing. In pursuit of not seeming partisan, they are doing like the other bad journalists who think pointing at the party that is responsible for something is not being impartial. No, when one man holds a gun and points it at another, you don’t report it as, “Two men are engaged in a gun-related standoff.” You say, “This man is holding a gun on that man.”
kesmarn : glenn, that’s too bad that even AlJazeera is falling into the MSM BS of not placing the blame where it belongs.
KillgoreTrout : Hey Murph! Good question.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ok I am back! Why do people call on Fridays when I am exploring on the Planet?
kesmarn : Maybe some tiny little concession – like delaying the medical devices tax for a year only.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I think Boehener is one of those that did come from hard scrabble beginnings to raise to a lofty hieght and considers themselves as perpetual winners. I’m quite sure that this idiot never thinks he is wrong, about anything.
AdLib : Make that, Obama and Dems would agree to a delayed deal after the CR AND Debt Ceiling are passed.
glenn : All-I’m watching AlJazeera now, and they are showing a man who owns a hotel outside of Yosemite. This man is talking about how he’s losing his livelihood because of the shutdown. I thought AlJazeera was better than this, because the narrator (can’t remember his name, but I will keep watching to find out what it is), keeps talking about how it’s the “government” or “congress” who is doing this to him. I think the narrator should be talking about who is really doing this to him–the gop. The same people who shut down the government of “non-essential ” workers, and then complained because the workers at the WWII memorial weren’t working! Once again, AARGH!
AdLib : So…how do you think this shutdown gets ended? Will Obama and the Dems make a backdoor deal with Boehner, that they’ll for example agree to getting rid of the medical devices tax but only officially agree to that after the CR is passed? Even if they do a deal like that, isn’t it still giving into Repub terrorism?
AdLib : KT – He is a narcissist, the fake tan gives that away. Still, it amazes me that someone can be so oblivious to himself. Does he think he’s been an effective Speaker, passing no laws of substance and claiming that success should be measured by how much he doesn’t get passed? They build statues to people for not doing things? Most people in his position care about how they’ll be remembered in history…don’t understand how he can be so deluded.
kesmarn : I agree, glenn. Ryan is that cunning. And he’d be fine with letting Boehner take the fall.
KillgoreTrout : Ryan is truly a “Munster.”
glenn : kes–that’s a scary thought. Don’t think boehner is that clever, but it may be that ryan is. He has that smarmy look about him.
AdLib : Heh!
KillgoreTrout : Ouch!
glenn : KT–good one!
KillgoreTrout : I can think of a few things I’d like to put “up Ryan’s alley! A large pineapple comes to mind!
kesmarn : One of my friends posed a rather frightening “what if” question. What if Ryan and Boehner are “using the Tea Party as their blunt weapon” and their original/only goal was to get the Ryan budget numbers passed — never to defund Obamacare? Will they succeed? Are they that diabolically clever?
glenn : kes–your friend may be right, since it sounds like this piecemeal budget is right up ryan’s alley!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I think Boehner is a true narcissist. He just can’t see past himself.
AdLib : Kes – Actually, it was tilapia and rice!
AdLib : Could Boehner look any more like a frightened servant? Can anyone remember a political leader that looked as spineless and helpless as Boehner? History books will portray him like that, has he no clue?
kesmarn : Thankee, Homie, and glenn…
KillgoreTrout : Kudos Homie!
glenn : AdLib–you never need to apologize for spending time with your family. We’re glad you’re back.
KillgoreTrout : “Those of us who benefit from the status quo are perfectly happy for us to think nothing is going to get any better. In fact, these days, cynicism is obedience!”-Ale x Steffen
kesmarn : Hoping she enjoys her chicken cordon bleu and braised asparagus, AdLib!
AdLib : Hey, sorry, I’m back! That took longer than I thought it would!
glenn : KT–thanks, but it was kesmarn who came up with that phrase.
KillgoreTrout : I recently read a really great sentiment, in The Sun literary magazine, by Alex Steffen.
kesmarn : One of my friends believes that Paul Ryan is actually the real puppet master behind this whole thing and he’s the one pulling Boehner’s strings. Ryan has been verrry quiet through this whole deal…
glenn : KT–There are also many “layers” of respect. I can respect someone else’s opinion, even if it disagrees with mine. What I can’t respect is the person who, because my opinion disagrees with theirs, thinks s/he has the right to disparage my citizenship, my intelligence, or my ability to think for myself.
kesmarn : glenn, the rock has been turned over and the sunlight has shown us all those little critters scurrying away.
KillgoreTrout : glenn, I really like that…”the crime of noticing.”
glenn : Kes–actually, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. We have finally committed the “crime of noticing”. The Koch brothers and their ilk are so used to operating in the shadows, and now that they can’t hide any more, they’re panicked.
KillgoreTrout : In the most idealistic way, respect should be automatically mutual, but in the real world, that is definitely NOT the case.
kesmarn : Good point, glenn. We all have committed what I call “the crime of noticing.” We notice what they’re trying to get away with. And for that, they want to punish the whole country.
KillgoreTrout : It’s beyond my memory kes. Truly!
glenn : KT–That’s what my grandmother always used to say about respect.
glenn : kes–put a camera in front of a madteapartier and they’re bound to say something stupid. And, don’t you just love this “disrespect” line? They’ve been disrespecting the twice, duly-elected President for 5 years, as well as disrespecting those of us who disagree with them, but it’s just not okay for us to call them on it. AAARGH!
kesmarn : Right, KT. When’s the last time any of them did anything respectable?
kesmarn : Or the woman — Renee Ellmer I think — would said that she was going to keep collecting her congressional pay because “the bottom line is I NEED MY PAYCHECK.” Like the other 800,000 people who have been furloughed don’t??
KillgoreTrout : Respect is earned. It’s not a “given.”
kesmarn : Some of the things these GOPers have been saying would actually be funny if they weren’t so aggravating! Like the guy who said that they “didn’t want to be disrespected. They had to get something.” And he “didn’t even know what that would be.” WTF?
kesmarn : And I feel the same way about giving in to the “piecemeal” approach. They’re just playing games, and the Prez and Congress need to call them on it.
kesmarn : glenn, at this point I think I would give it about 75:25 odds that they’ll raise it. But truthfully — that’s not too comforting! 25% chance of crashing the world economy? Doesn’t do much to help me sleep at night!
KillgoreTrout : I think you may be right kes.
glenn : kes–I’m hoping that the “saner” republicans overcome the cruzikaze squad, but I truly would not be surprised if they refuse to raise the debt ceiling. I would be beyond pissed off if they did that, but it truly would not surprise me. They are that f*cking stupid!
kesmarn : I think that the GOP will blink at the last minute, KT. If only because Lloyd Blankfein (Goldman-Sachs) and Jamie Dimon (Chase) told ’em to.
KillgoreTrout : Our president is not about to throw away all his pain staking work on the ACA to appease these lunatics in congress.
KillgoreTrout : kes, I think they’ll bring it to the brink, like they’ve done so many times before. They’re playing “chicken,” right now. The president is not going to swerve away a the last minute.
glenn : kes–I agree that President Obama is taking the right course here. I only hope that the Dems in Congress don’t give in to this “piecemeal” legislation either. By giving in to that, then once again, the repubs get to dictate the budget. That’s not how our democracy is supposed to work.
KillgoreTrout : I think president Obama has learned his lessons well. He only strove for bipartisanship as long as he did, out od his deep reverence for our constitution.
kesmarn : What do you all think? Do you think that they’ll refuse to raise the debt ceiling and cause a world wide financial crisis?
kesmarn : glenn, that’s exactly what the commentators said tonight on PBS. That the Prez learned from his earlier experience of trying to — in effect — appease them. And that he would never make that mistake again. I think he’s taking the right course here.
KillgoreTrout : The worst thing politicians can do is screw around with people’s livelyhood.
glenn : kes–all the repubs that stay yoked to the madteaparty, need to go down with them.
kesmarn : I think the real hard core ones will never see the light. They would rather blow up the whole economy than see the Prez succeed. They’re that far gone. If the rest of the GOP stays yoked to them, they’ll go down right with ’em.
KillgoreTrout : kes, maybe a “black and tan,” but that would be too diverse for Boehner.
glenn : kes–While I respect and admire President Obama, I do think that negotiating with the repubs/madteapar tiers last year only emboldened them to do it again. I’m glad to see him standing firm this time. He finally realizes that their end goal is nullification of his presidency, and any other Democratic president.
KillgoreTrout : LOL! I couldn’t agree more. He’s been doing it to the country since he took office.
kesmarn : KT, that sounds like it would be just what the Tan-Man needs!
glenn : KT–from your keyboard to the ballot box. Although they seem to be fewer, from the sites I visit, the hardcore madteapartiers don’t seem to have budged one iota. We still need to make sure we get out and vote whenever we can so they don’t rear their ugly heads again.
kesmarn : Right, glenn. I think the Prez took it seriously from day one. They’re the ones who thought they could bluff an get away with it. Well, the Prez called their bluff.
KillgoreTrout : kes, I was thinking “slow screw against the wall.” It would be poetic justice.
KillgoreTrout : The TP and Boehener are going to pay for all this nonsense. And soon.
glenn : kes–boehner needs to tell mcconnell and randpaul that this isn’t a “damn game”, since they still seem to think they can “win this thing.”
kesmarn : That farewell drink can be an “Orange Crush” Homie!
KillgoreTrout : No glenn, neither do I.
kesmarn : And yes, Boehner acts like he’s been hitting the sauce. Got a little loud today. “This is not a damn game!” Right, Mr. B. The Prez ain’t playin’!
glenn : KT–I agree–a resignation would be nice. The republicans, and the madteapartiers firing him would be even better! However, we do live in a reality-based world, and I don’t think that’s going to happen.
KillgoreTrout : I’d be more than happy to buy Mr. Orange a farewell drink!
kesmarn : Charles Dent (R) of PA was on the PBS News Hour last night and he seemed to be distancing himself and fellow moderate GOPers from the loonies. I think they’re trying to get an olive branch (or white flag) out there.
KillgoreTrout : glenn, a resignation would be nice!
glenn : kes–according to a lot of articles I’ve read, boehner has indeed been imbibing! How else is he going to cope with the reality of his world?
KillgoreTrout : kes’ I bet he has been, and not soda pop!
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I completely agree.
kesmarn : And Boehner! The pride of Ohio. I don’t even know what to say about him. I think he’s been imbibing all week.
KillgoreTrout : kes, not-so-wiley coyote!
glenn : Murph–maybe not the madteaparty, but there will be some republicans. This fiasco with the shutdown may be the beginning of the marginalization of the madteaparty from the republicans. FINALLY! In fact, I read an article that the big money donors have had enough, and are not going to donate to madteapartiers anymore, only republicans. Of course, the Koch money may overcome that. A person can hope, though.
kesmarn : Homie, he went way out on a limb and then started sawing. What a narcissistic dope!
KillgoreTrout : What’s shakin glenn?
KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie! Yeah, Mr. “smarter than all others,” just showed the nation what a dumbass he really is. Just another “bubble person.”
kesmarn : You got it, glenn. This article breaks it down to a battle between two sets of “elites” in the country. The ones who feel a sense of “noblesse oblige” and the ones who are all about power and oppressing their “inferiors.” A battle that the author feels has been going on for about 400 years.
KillgoreTrout : Doing OK Murph! I hope the same with you!
glenn : Hey KT!
glenn : kes–isn’t the whole message of the madteaparty about keeping the hierarchy intact? Isn’t that why they want to take their country “back”?
kesmarn : Hey, KT. It couldn’t happen to a better guy. “Cruzicide,” that is.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hey KT- hows by you
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I do not see the TP as a group joining in on this- too poor, too black or brown, too democrat.
KillgoreTrout : Hi Ho Planeteers! Cruzicide for all to see.!
glenn : Murph–it’s good to know that states can opt in at any time. We know how republican/teapa rtier voters are. They only are “for” something when it benefits them. When they see how Obamacare benefits them, especially with the expansion added, it’s just a matter of time before they start pushing for it.
kesmarn : For later: here’s that link on the article about keeping the “hierarchy” in place — at any cost: «link»
kesmarn : Oh yes, glenn. I think they value their time with us more than we realize!
glenn : kes–then hopefully, I have a few more years to spend with my granddaughter.
kesmarn : Murph, good to know that they can opt in later. Ohio still hasn’t decided.
kesmarn : glenn, I just read the most fascinating article in Salon about that very thing. The people who would even hurt themselves rather than see the poor — esp. the minority poor– benefit. I’ll try to get the link.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- the states may opt in at any time…..so push them hard.
kesmarn : glenn, mine is 12. But surprisingly (to me), she still wants to do things together and talk about stuff. I’m so grateful for that.
glenn : kes–I think that was one of the big reasons republicans didn’t want Obamacare passed. They don’t want to do anything to help poor people, let alone poor, black people.
glenn : kes–great “triggers” for feeling better. Along with those, I add the time I spend with my daughter and granddaughter. I’m especially savoring the time with my granddaughter, since she is now 10, and we may be “losing” her to the teenage syndrome soon.
kesmarn : I read an article (from Kalima, actually) that said that millions of poor folks — about 65% of them black — will not be able to get coverage in the state where the GOP governors and state houses refused the Medicaid expansion money. Thank you, Supreme Court! Not.
glenn : Murph–same situation here in GA. GOP “opted out”. I do have a question, though. If the GOP states that “opted out” start getting pushed back by the gopers in their states, can they decide to “opt back in” at any time?
kesmarn : You go ahead and cook, DadLib!
kesmarn : Oh…sorry to hear that, Murph. The legislature “did ’em wrong” on that one.
kesmarn : I hear you, glenn. Even things like a warm shower, the sound of birds, starry nights, fresh bread… All stuff that’s easy to take for granted. They can brighten your day when you think about them.
AdLib : Sorry, just making dinner for the little one, will be right back!
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes-+- the stories are starting to spread….people who never had care, now getting insurance they can afford…stunnin g. AND those between the really poor who are on medicaid and the kinda poor who now can get insurance are quickly getting pissed off. They are the ones the medicaid expansion was supposed to cover but our GOP legislature said NOPE.
glenn : kes–that’s what I’m trying to do–savor all the good stuff.
kesmarn : Murph, was Missouri one of the states that did opt to expand their Medicaid eligibility?
glenn : Murph–so are the people using the phones and the one-to-one signups actually able to enroll?
kesmarn : Hey, Murph! I hope the good citizens of MO are waking up to the fact that Obamacare is going to work for them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- the website continues to be a pain, but it is working at about half speed; the phone help lines are much better; the one to one signups are going will.
kesmarn : I hear you, glenn. The first half of 2013 was really quite — shall we say — challenging. But now I tend to value and savor every little good thing that comes along.
glenn : Hey Murph! Are people actually able to sign up for Obamacare?
MurphTheSurf3 : ObamaCare WoooooHoooooo… .making a difference in Missouri!
glenn : kes–that’s an interesting way to look at depression. I also think that without depression, I might not realize how good I actually have it.
kesmarn : But — yes — the GOP has an incredible clown factor going for it. Especially this past week. Sigh…
AdLib : glenn – Yep, that’s better! Wish I could fast forward my Tivo to 2014 and see a huge upset of Repubs that takes back the House.
kesmarn : glenn, sometimes I believe depression is actually a totally rational response to reality. Seriously.
glenn : Ad–Yup, cruz going down in flames works for me. For someone so “smart”, he sure fell for this one, didn’t he? I guess idealogy (sp?) trumps common sense every time.
AdLib : Thanks Kes! It was a lot of fun coming up with clips. KT posted a lot of great ones too!
glenn : Kes–going through a bit of a depression. Although the weather is absolutely gorgeous here, so I’m focusing on the good things in my life. And, of course, getting a great laugh out of the repub’s “antics”. ‘Cause if I couldn’t laugh at them, I’d be seriously depressed.
AdLib : glenn – But I love it! If the Bagger who started this extortion goes down in flames, seems that should be a real cautionary tale for the next one that wants to do that.
kesmarn : Thanks, AdLib. I loved your selection of movies for the GOPTP this past week. Didn’t get a chance to comment, but they were so funny!
AdLib : Kes – Good one, I like Cruzikazi!
glenn : Ad–I’d like to fast forward to Nov. 2014, so we could get these maniacs out of the House.
kesmarn : Doing pretty well, glenn, and yourself?
glenn : Hey kes–how goes it?
AdLib : Hey Kes!
AdLib : I kind of wish I could fast forward two months to see the Repubs depressed and all this madness over with them as the losers.
glenn : Ad–I did read a few weeks back about how the republican party was setting up cruz to be the scapegoat. The theory was, that if this government shutdown thingy backfired on them, they could blame it on cruz. Seems as though that’s exactly what they’re doing. You know, all of these repubs who voted to shut down the government, are now saying it’s all cruz’s fault. Once again, no personal responsibility from repubs.
kesmarn : Cruzikazi! Happy Friday evening, friends!
AdLib : Just as quickly as Cruz rose, he’s descending. He seems to be more hated by many Congressional Repubs than Obama!
glenn : Nah–Ad–I don’t think it will scare them. However, if you had a President Obama mask under the cruz one, that really would scare them.
AdLib : glenn – Yes, poor Ted, the whole Joe McCarthy thing just ain’t working out for him.
glenn : Hey Ad–just read where little teddy’s feelings were hurt because Democrats were saying bad things about him. I feel so badly for him, (NOT) don’t you?
AdLib : glenn – Just preparing my Halloween Ccostume to wear when I go to GOP houses, a Ted Cruz mask! That should scare the hell out of them!
AdLib : Hey glenn!
glenn : Hi AdLib–what’s cookin’?
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “Cruzicide!” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!
AdLib : And there is also a zen to venting over the lunatics grabbing for the reigns of the nation. Sounds good!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad I agree….I am going to send you a note in a bit BUT I really enjoyed this tonight. Listening can be quite relaxing.
AdLib : Well Murph, looks like it’s about that time to close up the Vox Pop bar for the night. Another great chat tonight and props on the trilogy of posts this week, they really were timely and hit all the bases.
AdLib : CL – Very glad to hear that things are getting better for you and Hubby! Try to reduce the stress this weekend and rest up! We need you healthy and ready to go!
MurphTheSurf3 : WHAT A GREAT DISCUSSION….go od night Choice, enlightening.
MurphTheSurf3 : I am still here watching and learning…
choicelady : Folks – I need to retreat and get sleep. Life here has been hard for all the health reasons I’ve mentioned before – mine and my husband’s. Things are getting better, but the stress levels are through the roof, and I’m fading. Love to all – have a GREAT weekend!
AdLib : CL – I did hear the same story though on MSNBC and elsewhere, that radio and web ads had been put up by Heritage against Repub Senators who weren’t toeing their line. That has been happening.
choicelady : AdLib – we all will be watching indeed! If they do pull the Orange Man into their web, THAT will kill him off. But it will also kill off their future as a party. Sometimes even the worst things can become hopeful for those of us who care about democracy.
AdLib : CL – That’s true, we’ll know on Monday night…and I bet we don’t know any sooner! The Baggers aren’t going to fold on this without taking it down to the wire…if they fold before Tuesday, that is.
choicelady : AdLib – only those of us wonkies actually READ The Hill, so the ads hardly matter! NEVER, by the way, underestimate the power of the independents who are well and truly sick of the GOP Baggers!
AdLib : CL – I’m not a fan of The Hill either but the ads are posted in the article so on that count, they appear to be correct.
choicelady : AdLib and Murph – the best part of this discussion is that we will find out before NEXT week what actually happens! We rarely get that clarity so soon!
AdLib : CL – I appreciate what you’re saying but with the rise of the Baggers, who completely conflict with all the establishment entities you describe, I would argue that the proof is in the pudding. If all those folks had the true power in the GOP, why are we so close to seeing the government shutdown?
choicelady : AdLib – my joy is that The Hill is almost ALWAYS wrong!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and choice…..great discussion.
choicelady : Murph – it’s not that Ohio does not have its Baggers, but it is that the pro-business folks are even stronger in OH. Every state is different. We need to keep the focus.
AdLib : Here’s an article NPR linked to in that article at The Hill which describes how they have already been targeting Repub Senators who aren’t opposing the ACA as hard as Heritage wants: «link»
MurphTheSurf3 : CL I need to study up Ohio.
choicelady : AdLib and Murph – once you go to a think thank, you have immediately got less power. Even with this scenario, there is power and influence on K Street and Wall Street even stronger. I think the extremists in the business circles do not support Cruz and won’t get rid of Boehner. They KNOW where their interests lie, and it’s not extremists.
AdLib : CL – The title of the article is, “Outside The Senate, DeMint Appears More Powerful Than Ever”.
AdLib : CL – DeMint and Heritage are arm in arm with Cruz on the shutdown and anti-Boehner. They would back a challenger to Boehner if he turned on them. Have read lately that DeMint has become very powerful using that very tool, primarying Repubs who don’t toe the Bagger line. Check out this NPR article: «link»
choicelady : AdLib – DeMint’s move to Heritage actually costs him. Yea, the Kochs have influence, but they LOST in many elections they supported, and they are NOT all powerful. Never underestimate the power of the business class. They have even MORE money.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL The challenger will be handpicked and imported if need be.
AdLib : CL – Jim DeMint is absolutely one of those “rogues”, the Baggers are his kind of people and he runs Heritage now.
choicelady : Murph – MO is a weirdly deviant state. Ohio is more predictable. I think we cannot reason from MO to OH or any other Red/Blue state easily. I’m sorry though that you are stuck there however much you love it. It is NOT the norm.
AdLib : CL – But a challenger to Boehner wouldn’t come from the GOP establishment like Rove. It would come backed by the SuperPACS Baggers have been setting up, from fellow outraged Baggers and Koch Bros. money.
choicelady : Murph – I’m not so sure that Heritage et al. would back an unknown against the sure thing of Boehner. He’s in the bag with them. Baggers per se are rogues and uncontrollable.
MurphTheSurf3 : AD AND CHOICE…I do hope that your vision of GOP Zombie Apocalypse is prophetic and not just wishful thinking. I have been overwhelmed at the ongoing tsunamis of stupid among their followers in my state.
choicelady : AdLib – my “Ohio intelligence” says there are certainly Baggters. The “well financed” are not so thick upon the Ohio ground. Even Karl Rove is against a shutdown. I want to find him and say, “Dr. Frankenstein? Meet your Monster.” I do not see it in Boehner’s district. A challenger of course. A SUCCESSFUL challenger? Not so likely given Rove’s disgust with the Baggers he created.
AdLib : CL – Actually, now would be a great time for Homeland Security to roll out their Zombie Apocalypse program, we’re right on the brink of it! “Brains…”
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….the national TP organizations and their billionaire backers mixed in with the huge data bases held by Heritage, Enterprise, and NRA can take him on as a symbol of the RHINO MASCOT.
AdLib : CL – But the Baggers have no loyalty to Wall Street, they have the Kochs paying their way and don’t need other billionaires. Now, if the Kochs sat them down and told them to end the threat of a shutdown, that might stop them.
choicelady : AdLib – Homeland Security, as a JOKE, did a training on the “Zombie Apocalypse” as a training. Maybe it wasn’t so far fetched after all?
AdLib : Murph – That’s what I’m thinking. If Boehner was to buck the Baggers and get a deal passed despite them, I could definitely imagine a well financed Bagger popping up in OH to challenge Boehner in a primary.
choicelady : AdLib and Murph – if we get a shutdown – and the late SS and Medicare checks – it will be to the good. I would not wish it on friends who live on SS alone, but… The over 50 voters will have to finally pay attention.
AdLib : Murph – As this all comes to a head, I do expect the Republican snake to keep devouring itself. They are turning on each other like zombies who just got bit by other zombies. They have already destroyed whatever passed for integrity in the GOP, now comes the destruction of unity and trust. The end result won’t be a vibrant, growing GOP, it will be the hastening of their descent into being a minority party…kind of ironic actually considering how they feel about minorities.
choicelady : Murph – in Ohio? I don’t think it’s the same. Sorry kes left. She could put us wise.
choicelady : AdLib – I know the establishment GOP are out, but it’s the PARTY folks who matter, and the more conventional ones run things behind the scenes with Wall Street and the money guys HORRIFIED at a shut down that would decimate their incomes via a lowered US credit rating etc.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Ad- The TP is very capable of creating a challenger and given the ads here to impeach Boehner I think it is very possible.
choicelady : Murph – THAT is creepy. Akins was a VICTIM???? Your state (my heritage) really sucks.
AdLib : CL – I would argue that establishment Repubs have lost control of the GOP, the Baggers are calling the shots now so Cruz doesn’t need the establishment. They may condemn him but he has the activist core of the GOP behind him, he doesn’t need John McCain’s endorsement to win with them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…there are three TP organizations in Mo. All three are now equating Roy Blunt with RHINOs – Blunt….so hard to believe. There are cries that Akin was robbed…..and they are gathering traction.
choicelady : AdLib – there is no clear ‘primary’ challenger for Beohner. I seriously don’t think that is his worry.
AdLib : CL – have to disagree with you on that, Boehner is a top target for Baggers to primary if her doesn’t go along with their demands. Look, they’re primarying McConnell, the leader in the Senate, Boehner is well aware of that. He’s next if he doesn’t toe their line and he’s so self-serving, it’s hard to imagine him doing otherwise…but he may.
choicelady : Murph – I think those “opinion leaders” have been gutted as well. I think the GOP have realized within the unseen leadership that extremism is not working with independent voters they DESPERATELY need.
AdLib : Murph – I surely see Cruz as a man lusting for power but he doesn’t seem anywhere near as clever as Helms or Thurmond. Cruz is so obvious in his pursuit of instant power in the GOP I think that unlike the two you mentioned, Cruz has created a strong group of adversaries in the GOP who will openly or secretly undermine him. The Baggers won’t have power forever and if Cruz only has them to rely on, he will collapse along with them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- and those leaders are being condemned by Heritage, by TP groups, by Savage, Drudge, Limbaugh, etc. I think it is all part of his plan. He does not intend to be an effective Senator just a very loud one.
choicelady : AdLib – sanity is not the issue with the GOP – it is survival.
choicelady : Murph – I think the fact the GOP leaders now spoke so powerfully against Cruz marginalizes him no matter the money. He has been cut out of the pack. I don’t think he can get the nomination.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- look at the money he is raking in, watch the right wing pundits, they are looking for a national TP leader and Rand is too much the libertarian for them.
AdLib : Night Sabreen! I’m not optimistic about the term “sanity” applying to the Repub House but I’m with you in hoping it does.
choicelady : AdLib – the capacity to primary all the people the Baggers hate is very small. I think Boehner knows that.
choicelady : Murph – he has far less support than Palin. He may have those plans – I am not sure the GOP has them, too.
AdLib : CL – The thing is, the Baggers do have outsized influence in the House and with Boehner because they carry the threat of primarying him and other Repubs who stand against what they want. Is boehner really the type who would risk his seat in the House to do the right thing for the nation? I just don’t see him that way.
choicelady : AdLib – decisions, decisions. Drive him out as a non citizen? Ignore that and let him run because he’s impossibly stupid? Ahhhh all the choices we have!
Sabreen60 : CL, Your wine. My Friday night Patron. I’m really gone this time!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib, Choice et. al. Think of cruz as Jesse Helms or Strom Thurmond….he has a plan…as I said earlier… CRUZ????? I think he is aiming to becoming a firmly ensconced Senator and leader of the GOTP- a Permanent Palin a more Powerful Paul and the ally of Jim DeMint. Oh he will run for Prez to get national exposure and rake in more bucks but he has a long range strategy that includes control of TP block in Senate and the House….
Sabreen60 : Nite glenn!
choicelady : SabReen – I am very tired, too much wine, and nothing evil intended. Dyslexia of the fingers!
AdLib : CL – On one hand, I love that Cruz could have a real Birther issue. On the other hand, I really want him to run in the 2016 primary…I’m so torn!
Sabreen60 : CL, Just noticed that I’m still “Sabfeen” to you. It’s ok, I’ve been called worst See you around, dear.
choicelady : AdLib – i’d be thrilled if Cruz was the nominee 2016. But I fear it will be Rand, and he’s far more devious.
choicelady : Sabreen – good night, lovely person. Always glad to see you here, there, everywhere!
AdLib : Night glenn! Have a great weekend!
Sabreen60 : I’m going to say good nite, too. Lets hope sanity wins the day.
choicelady : glenn – I think I got that from your link!!!!!!! Thank you!
choicelady : Sabfeen – I don’t pay attention to GOP politics, but those who do ay that this shutdown may be the death of Baggers as the Old Guard rises and drives them OUT for doing exactly that.
AdLib : glenn – There couldn’t be a better present to the Dems and all Americans, if Cruz won the GOP nom in 2016! It may seem like a longshot but so did Baggers being able to shut down our government in 2010 when they were screaming like loons at town halls.
glenn : CL–Sorry, just have to jump back in before I go. That bit about Cruz’s citizenship was what I was talking about last week. I thought I posted the link on OT sometime this week. Must’ve had a senior moment and didn’t actually post it. Oh well. Have a great weekend.
Sabreen60 : It’s too bad that the baggers who actually present a small minority in the Repub Party are given so much power. The moderate Republicans are cowards. I just find it hard to believe that Republicans who have been in Congress for 10, 15, 20 or more years march in lockstep with the baggers were they not cowards.
choicelady : AdLib – Boehner counts only the House. That’s all that concerns him right now.
choicelady : glenn – it’s a crap shoot, no question! You are not alone in wondering. The freaking joke is that ACA is secure through the early part of next year, so whatever they do, they cannot kill health care! But shut down the gubbmint? that they CAN do.
AdLib : CL – That seems a bit unclear to me. Even if Baggers are numerically a minority of the GOP, they seem to be a majority in primaries in many states and they have the Kochs behind them. So I don’t know if they really are a minority in the conventional sense.
glenn : Okay, folks. Time for me to go now. Still can’t make up my mind whether or not we will have a shutdown next week. Guess we’ll have to wait and see. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend. Hope to “see” you all here at the Planet.
choicelady : AdLib – see my comment above on the citizenship debacle!
choicelady : Sabfeen – that does not surprise me! I am fascinated to read that his U.S. citizenship is in dire trouble. His mother is naturalized (Cuban) and by her NOT living in the U.S.for over 14 years, she may have compromised her citizenship making Cruz (born in Alberta) a Canadian. That means he is not a U. S. citizens, cannot vote, cannot be a Senator, never can be a president. Wow – this is worth the giant bucket of popcorn!
AdLib : Sabreen – So true, I never equate having had a great education to being greatly educated. Look at George Bush. I too am wondering if the Baggers are so salivating over actually shutting down government that nothing can distract them from making that happen. It’s so close, it’s in their reach and would be a real exhibition of power and wish fulfillment. Would they give that up because donors threaten them? I have a hard time seeing that.
MurphTheSurf3 : CRUZ????? I think he is aiming to becoming a firmly ensconced Senator and leader of the GOTP- a Permanent Palin a more Powerful Paul and the ally of Jim DeMint. Oh he will run for Prez to get national exposure and rake in more bucks but he has a long range strategy that includes control of TP block in Senate and the House….
AdLib : CL – But consider the primary voters in the GOP, they are the types that are applauding Cruz right now. Hey, if they put Santorum and Gingrich as top contenders against a mainstreamer like Romney, why couldn’t they turn their madness towards getting Cruz the nom?
Sabreen60 : CL, People who went to school with Cruz say that no one could stand him. He’s a pompous idiot.
glenn : Ad–According to what I have read, the polls are already showing that Cruz is the r/tp “flavor(ite) of the month”. He will NEVER win a national election. I hope you’re right–if they get SMASHED, maybe they’ll finally return to reality. However, if it’s a close election, I think they’ll just return to the same old excuse–we weren’t “conservative” enough.
choicelady : AdLib – Baggers are STILL a minority, and acting like a Speaker still has power with Boehner. I cannot be sure, but I think he won’t permit a shutdown.
AdLib : CL – I know he has done so on some very big bills in the past but I think he’s kind of painted into a corner on this one. And with the rise of the Baggers over this, I am having more and more trouble imagining Boehner slamming the door in their face.
Sabreen60 : AdLib, I’d like to believe that the corporatists in the Repub Party will talk some sense into the baggers, but I’m not real hopeful. Cruz is an idiot. I don’t care how many degrees he has and where he got them. I know a lot of stupid educated people. Look at Dr. Ben Carson, neurosurgeon. How can someone so smart in one field be such an idiot when it comes to governing and politics?
choicelady : AdLib – Cruz is toast. Even when Baggers agree with him, he has been way too weird to have GOP support. He has acted irrationally, and the main body of GOP have it in for him.
AdLib : And what’s the future for Cruz? Might the Baggers make him the GOP nominee in 2016? I really hope so, that would herald the end of the reign of the Baggers, the massive losses the Repubs would incur would be devastating!
choicelady : AQdLib – I do actually think at the 11th hour Boehner will HAVE to vote NOT to shut down never mind the laundry list of demands from the Baggers. I think he will suspend the Hastert Rule and let the Dems and handful of GOP put it across the line.
AdLib : So is anyone here more confident that a shutdown won’t happen?
AdLib : Night Sue, sleep well!
AdLib : glenn, wish that was me but it wasn’t. Though I agree whole heartedly!
Sabreen60 : Good nite Sue!
choicelady : Sue and kes – have a grand weekend! I do an ACA training tomorrow. Send energies if you have any to spare!
glenn : ‘Night Sue
glenn : ‘Night Kes
SueInCa : back at you CL night all
Sabreen60 : Nite kes. Take Care!
AdLib : Night Kes, have a great weekend!
choicelady : Sue – be well. I WILL – swear I will – get the book to you soon. I’m a nut case lately. Love you though!
AdLib : glenn – But even though the Repubs will never give credit to Obama for anything, as they continue to disgrace themselves, their opinion will continue to be more meaningless to most people. The majority of Americans will be relieved and grateful for Obama helming the nation into a n agreement over disarming Syria and Iran. History will reflect that as well. As many of us agree, Obama’s legacy will be as one of the most remarkable and accomplished Presidents in our history.
choicelady : kes – go and do MOM stuff. Love you and hope you’re growing stronger every day!
SueInCa : Well I am going to sign off for now. I guess we will watch and wait to see what happens on Monday. I think it will be a shutdown and eventually the Baggers will get theirs. Night too Kes
choicelady : AdLib – did you meet him in Palm Springs? He was having breakfast while I waited for you, and I chose NOT to introduce myself since he looked tired. I hope you got a chance to do it.
glenn : Ad–Was it you who said that if PBO discovered the cure for cancer, the r/tps would complain about all of the oncologists he was putting out of work?
kesmarn : Sorry, kids — BOTH my children just messaged me at the same time. What’s that all about? Will sign off for now. Have a wonderful weekend!
choicelady : glenn – I would agree about the meme about Putin leading the way, but the UN efforts and PBO’s leadership will stand the test of history.
AdLib : CL – Thanks for the Hightower quote, he is such a wit!
SueInCa : It is like that all over Adlib. I just shake my head at some of the things people say and believe
glenn : Sabreen–no PBO will not get any credit for either the diplomacy on Iran, nor on Syria. The pubs will say Syria is all due to Putin–who, of course, never said a word about Syria’s chemical weapons until PBO threatened to bomb Syria–but, according to the pubs, he is the person who started it all. As far as Iran goes–the pubs will find a way to spin that historic encounter as the opposite of what it really is.
choicelady : kes – I see Boehner as a ticking time bomb on his own health issues. I see no evidence he has a moral core. Whether he gets out intact or dead is a crap shoot.
SueInCa : I have seen alcoholism up close Kes and he has the signs of someone not well. And you are right smoking is double danger for him
AdLib : Kes – That is what’s sad, these deluded Baggers will indeed have to see the US hammered down with their own eyes before they grasp the very simple concept that not paying to operate the government we all need, is a bad thing. It is very upsetting that such small and closed minds are out there in numbers.
choicelady : kes – that is a very good distinction between a compass and a counter! Nicely said!
kesmarn : Sue, and he smokes, too.
choicelady : glenn – that is actually quite revealing, thanks.
SueInCa : I really truly think Boehner’s brain is disintegrating because of his alcohol consumption. I would bet he has had alcohol poisoning at one time or another and someday his heart is gonna give
choicelady : Sabreen – I agree. Boehner is done. Jim Hightower is right: one day you’re the peacock. Next day the feather duster. That’s Boehner.
AdLib : Sabreen – History will give credit to Obama for these remarkable prospects in foreign policy but Repubs wouldn’t give Obama credit if he discovered a cure for cancer.
glenn : CL–Haven’t had many political conversations. A few months ago, my neighbor said something about the “idiot in the White House”. I said that “I don’t think the President is an idiot, in fact, I think quite the opposite.” All of a sudden, she had to go into her house for something. I have spoken with her since then; she really is a kind woman, but we don’t speak about politics. As far as the comments in the local newspapers, it’s about evenly divided, believe it or not. The Atlanta Journal Constitution has several political columnists–of the two most read columnists, one is liberal and one is conservative–so , it’s really the usual divide. I don’t see any “tilt” one way or another. However, GA did go for Romney in the election.
kesmarn : Exactly, Sabreen and AdLib. Boehner never has had a moral compass (only a political geiger counter) and he’s highly unlikely to grow one at this late date.
choicelady : Sue – I have been around a very long time, through the McCarthy years (and don’t think Cruz’s resemblance to Joe doesn’t creep me out) but NEVER have I seen such unbelievable stupidity as the Baggers.
SueInCa : Well with TeaNN calling him a leader, Boehner must be in heaven
Sabreen60 : Kes, I think Boehner will lose his Speakership regardless of what he does. Seems as though he’d want to have at least one accomplishment on his record. People are already saying he’s the worst Speaker in modern history.
AdLib : Kes – True, Boehner is finished as Speaker but he just doesn’t think like that, like he could do something noble and stand up as a leader despite the lunatics in his party. That idea is completely foreign to him, he has always been about following the flow of his party and has positioned him as a staunch enemy of Dems, Obama and the majority of Americans since he began as Speaker. No way he would ever fall on his own sword, that would take someone of character and that is absolutely not Boehner.
kesmarn : I have a friend who’s totally RW brainwashed and they’re getting the same talking points: oh, a shut down won’t be that bad, blah, blah. I said “Fine, then when the President stays strong and doesn’t buckle, you won’t have anything to complain about.” They actually do have to see it play out in real time misery to get it.
choicelady : Sue – I think their pay checks will pass for 9/30 paid on 10/15 but after that, they either volunteer with IOUs or we are without any federal employees.
SueInCa : No Sabreen they will now impeach him for being a smart diplomat
SueInCa : I know that but the last day is too and the government has already been planning who wil be furloughed so I think it will happen sooner
choicelady : Sabreen – PBO and Rouhani – wow. This is MAJOR stuff.
choicelady : Sue – that’s the end of their pay period.
Sabreen60 : Thanks Murph. What about the happenings with foreign affairs. PBO talking on the phone with Iran Pres Hassan Rouhani – 1st time USA Pres and Iranian Pres have talked since 1979. And Syria having all chems destroyed. Will PBO get any credit for this diplomacy?
kesmarn : c’lady, his career is over. But he still can’t summon up the courage to be a decent person. Pathetic.
choicelady : glenn – living as you are in GOP territory, what ARE you hearing?
SueInCa : CL the displaced workers will know right away. Or are you saying they have til the 15th to be laid off?
AdLib : Sue – Oh yeah, I expect there will be Bagger Klan Rallies and Barbecues if government is shut down Monday night/Tuesday morning, this is exactly what they want, this is a victory. And as you say, as the nation turns on them as they see what vermin they are, they will probably remain in denial as long as they can hold out then fall like dominoes.
choicelady : kes – Boehner= Craven Coward. You nailed it!
choicelady : Sue – the shutdown may begin Oct. 1 but not FELT until Oct, 15-plus. That let’s them have two weeks of “see? we didn’t hurt anyone…”
kesmarn : The weird thing is that Boehner is finished no matter what. Anyone with any character at all would seize one last chance to do something different. This way he’s just opting to go out as a craven coward. But go out he will — either way.
glenn : Sabreen–we talked about that county fair a few weeks. It was in KY, and it was called KentuckyCare, I think.
choicelady : Murph – I think that has been B’s wet dream since he entered Congress.\
SueInCa : Adlib his brain is so alcohol soaked I doubt he even can really think straight
glenn : Murph–by all means, check out your contacts. Then let us know here on the Planet what’s happening. I haven’t made many contacts politically because I’ve been too involved in my personal life right now. Without trying to sound like I’m making excuses, or sounding like a “whiner”, I’d really be interested to hear what other libs/dems/inds/e tc. around GA are doling. I live in a republican county/community .
AdLib : Night KT!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen – that was at the Kentucky State Fair.
AdLib : I will take any bet on this, Boehner is an orange, tearful mouse and won’t make any grand transition to act like a Speaker of the entire House. There is all evidence to point to him as that mouse and nothing in his track record to back up wishful thinking about him becoming a strong leader who would buck the core of his party to do what’s right. That just ain’t Boehner, he will go down with the sinking ship before offering a hand to anyone else if it means angering Baggers.
SueInCa : So, the gov is going to shut down as of Tuesday at 12;01 am and the baggers will go on a victory tour until they run in to a displaced fed worker or an angry Military member?
Sabreen60 : PBO joked that someone in one our southern states signed up for health insurance at a state fair. It wasn’t called ACA nor Obamacare, so they guy thought it was something else and said that he was getting a better deal than he would have gotten with Obamacare. It seems that states will call their exchanges whatever they want and people will not know it’s ACA.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- since B literally was passing out checks on the House floor earlier in his “illustrious” career that might be a good fit.
choicelady : BRB-
choicelady : Murph – at another site we speculated if Boehner would give up the gavel for being a lobbyist where playing gold and drinking were THE things for which he was paid. Be interesting to see…
kesmarn : G’night, KT!
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…I have contacts in rural George. I think I will check it out. The Civil Rights community there is strong and sneaky.
KillgoreTrout : Thank you all.
glenn : ‘Night, KT. Peace back atcha!
choicelady : KT – sorry we saw each other only a bit. Sweet dreams, dear friend!
Sabreen60 : Good nite KT!
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello and goodbye KT
AdLib : glenn – I think a shutdown could last weeks but any more than that and there will be a tidal wave of angry Americans crashing down on the Baggers and the pressure to fold will be irresistible. So, yes, most likely the shutdown is brief but still possible it could last for a number of weeks if the Baggers hunker down.
SueInCa : Night KT
choicelady : AdLib – actually the effects of the shutdown won’t be felt until Oct. 17 due to the lag of actions. This alone is dangerous – the two weeks or so before the impacts are felt give the GOP room to pretend they did nothing harmful.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Left this for Choice earlier: it all comes down to how Boehner exits the Speakership. If he were a MAN and not a Mouse, he would take on his Tea Party Caucus and turn to the Dems for backup. But if he did he might hold on to the Speaker’s gavel until 2014 when he would lose his bid for reelection against a Tea Party challenger.
KillgoreTrout : Good night gentle people and may you stay forever young. I must get to work on the music thread. Peace!
kesmarn : Heh…well, KT, there is a band called “Sisters of Mercy” but that’s not where I was. These gals are the real thing. We get together about once a month.
choicelady : Murph – that IS the issue: Man or Orange Mouse. You are right on point with Boehner.
AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the insights on that. I have to think that in the end, this quite inevitable civil war within the GOP needs to come to a full boil. It’s the only way to either purge themselves of these lunatics or allow the loonies to make the GOP so toxic, they will never again be allowed to have power. As for Boehner, I think he’s proved that he is a craven little weasel whgo only cares about his position and re-election, he will do only what serves that so I am thinking it is very possible that the US Gov’t will be shut down on Monday.
glenn : Murph–Haven’t heard too much more since our SOS bragged about obstructing the navigators. Most of what I see in the papers here is about the government shutdown. The Atlanta Journal Constitution is doing a series on Obamacare, but I can’t access it online without paying for it, and I’m too cheap to do so.
choicelady : KT – technically SS and Medicare have to carry on, but AdLib is correct that the people who send the checks are NOT immune from the shutdown.
KillgoreTrout : Kes, Mercy? I take it that is a musical group?
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I hope Spandan is correct (like that site by the way, thanks for turning me on to it)…..but it all comes down to how Boehner exits the Speakership. If he were a MAN and not a Mouse, he would take on his Tea Party Caucus and turn to the Dems for backup. But if he did he might hold on to the Speaker’s gavel until 2014 when he would lose his bid for reelection against a Tea Party challenger.
SueInCa : No glenn you are not. We also have a lot riding on the market
KillgoreTrout : glenn, supposedly, Medicare and SS will not be affected by a shutdown.
choicelady : Sabrfeen – I have an employee in promoting ACA who agrees with Chuck and, if I do not strangle my employee first, I am TRYING to say that I have gotten almost daily press releases on the virtues of ACA that Todd has utterly ignored. That means not only is he not a ‘truth teller’ but he’s a lousy reporter of what comes OUT of the White House and HHS.
SueInCa : glenn he is a toad and has been for years. I stopped msnbc partly because I could not stand to look at him
kesmarn : KT, yes, the weather has been decent so we’re keeping the cottage open. Just got here from a Mercy gig.
glenn : Ad–I have to believe that if the r/tps do succeed in shutting down the government, it won’t last long, and I will be okay for a while without my SS. I do worry more about them defaulting on our debt, and downgrading our credit rating AGAIN, because that will affect me long-term in terms of savings. Once again, I am being selfish, but I DO know that I am not the only one.
Sabreen60 : glenn, There’s petition which has over 100,000 signatures to fire Chuck Todd. Other “journalists” (I use the term loosely) told him to, in essence, admit he was wrong. He won’t do it. So he believes with all his little heart that it is not the responsibility of journalists to tell the truth – even though it is the first principle of journalism.
kesmarn : Y’all come, BFF! You’ve seen the pix on FB.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- what are you hearing about ACA in Georgia?
choicelady : Murph – over at The People’s View, Spandan, who is rarely wrong, thinks that as the 11th hour 59th second, Boehner will opt for sanity, there will NOT be a shutdown because he will suspend the Hastert rule. We live in hope that even the Orange Man can find good sense.
SueInCa : Hey BFF good to see you. I want to be at the cottage too
KillgoreTrout : Hey HOMIE! I hope all is well. Are you still enjoying the lake?
kesmarn : I’m thinking we just might, glenn.
choicelady : AdLib – you have nailed the problem. SS is OK. SS mailers are NOT!!!
glenn : Hi Kes–that’s what we’re all trying to decide. Are we or aren’t we?
AdLib : Hey Kes! Great to see you!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Living in a Red State I get to hear a lot of the scuttlebutt….t he GOP civil war is far, far, worse than it is being reported. It has spread to the state level. GOP Reps in this state are calling each other out in public statements, in e mails, in ads and in phone calls. BOTTOM LINE- unless Boehner acts like Speaker of the House and not just the GOP…there will be a shutdown and then a debt ceiling crisis.
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen and fellow Planeteers — just popping in for a minute on the always iffy cottage connection. Are we gonna have a shut down on Tuesday?
SueInCa : It is sickening KT. Oh glenn I heard that one
AdLib : glenn – SS won’t be affected in terms of funding BUT…the government workers who facilitate the money going out may be reduced, leading eventually to delays. Just depends how long government may be shut down.
glenn : Sue–yet, just last week, a rep from my own, sweet state of GA was complaining about his “measly” $174,000 per year salary.
choicelady : Sabreen – Congress is constitutionally affirmed, not because they currently are essential but because the framers believed no one could POSSIBLY be that stupid!
KillgoreTrout : Sue, wonderfully said. I cannot agree with you more. Patience and politeness suffer at the advent of new technology.
SueInCa : Sabreen Martin Bashir asked a Bagger Congressman about his salary today and he fell a;; over himself justifying it lol
choicelady : Sue – I read an article about social media that quoted a 13-year-old boy who said, “I’d like to have a real conversation. Just not now.” Part of this is the Emo’s fault – where every conversation is a “gotcha” moment. Whatever you say is grounds for decimating you. By giving that legitimacy, we have ended personal interaction – there is no way to have a discussion when you are trashed simply for HAVING it.
AdLib : So, though it is tough to predict, just for debate sake, do you think the Repubs will or won’t shut down government as of Monday?
Sabreen60 : Hi Cl and Kes. CL, I was just doing a little reading about essential services. Thanks for the info. I guess Congress is essential, cuz they will continue to get paid for all the hard work they’ve been doing.
KillgoreTrout : glenn, cable news has way too much air time. It’s a sure thing that when they want 24 hours of broadcast time, they are setting themselves up for fluff stories and RW vs LW nonsense.
glenn : Sabreen and Sue–I, for one, am glad that SS is not included in the shutdown, as I am on SS. I do have other income, but I need my SS check to pay my bills. Otherwise, I would have to take money out of savings, which thanks to either a credit default, or even the uncertainty regarding a credit default, has taken a real bite out of it. So, yes, I’m selfish, too. I don’t want to see me or other people suffer for some smarmy, junior senator from TX to make a [email protected]@king political point!
SueInCa : Sabreen I had not heard that SS would be affected. If it is, oh boy the baggas are in for it.
SueInCa : CL we live in a nation that thinks 24/7 FB is having friends. Look around you, mothers take their kids to the park and look at the iPhone all the time they are there. Kids go to get coffee and eat, same thing. People are so distracted about instant gratification, they just don’t think anymore
AdLib : glenn – You get no answer from them because they’re alleged reasons for hating Obama and his policies so maniacally are straight up racism and everything else they use as an excuse is just camouflage.
choicelady : Hi glenn!
choicelady : Hi back atcha, AdLib! I agree with your assessment – the Baggers are living in delusion. It is a fantasy about America based on Hollywood NOT on history. That is a lousy way to run government.
glenn : Hi CL!
AdLib : Hey CL!
choicelady : Sabreen – the issues you mention are considered “essential” spending. those will continue being paid.
AdLib : Sabreen – The Baggers and much of the GOP live in a bubble of denial about reality. Remember how they all knew the polls were wrong and Romney would win the Presidency? They are so deluded, they seem to believe that as long as their propagandist authority figures like Fox News and Rush tell them that up is down and black is white, anything to the contrary is just a lie. Many Baggers including those in the House truly believe Obama will give in and save America because he’s too weak to let them destroy it. Many also believe that the American people, with their government shut down, will celebrate in the streets and join their crusade. They have no connection to reality, they are mentally ill in that way and what’s going to happen is what must happen, they need to see for themselves that their delusions are just that and that the American People will never support their anarchic and oppressive goals.
glenn : KT–agree about the media. It is definitely “lamestream”. However, as Chuck Todd said, the media’s job is not to inform the American public. I still haven’t figured out what Todd thinks is the job of the media, but whatever job they’re doing now, it certainly sucks! And more and more, in my opinion, that includes MSNBC!
choicelady : glenn – that is the biggest loss: our inability to care about others and see that patriotism is about responsible maintenance of our government. This is the really ugly underbelly of “government IS the problem” Reaganism.
KillgoreTrout : I think, after the Cruz fiasco, that any real attempts at a government shutdown will be seen, by the GOP as being too radical. I think they’ll concede on keeping the government “running.”
Sabreen60 : Sue, Well evidently a lot of people are misinformed. I’ve heard SS checks mentioned in the same breath as military pay and military disability checks.
choicelady : Hi KT! Good to see you,too.
glenn : Oh Ad, I agree 100%. To me, it is absolute lunacy to call yourself a “patriot” or a “real” American in one breath, and then call for the shutdown of the government of the United States! This were their “logic” falls apart. Or, they say how PBO is “shredding” the Constitution, yet when they are challenged to cite the relevant passage in the Constitution that says if you don’t agree with a constitutionally -passed, constitutionally -upheld law, or you don’t agree with the twice, duly-elected President of the United States, the Constitution allows for shutting down the government. I have asked several of them that this week, and all I get is silence.
choicelady : Sue – I am there, am not directly affected, and I HATE the idea of a shutdown for all the people who WILL be affected. What the HELL is the matter with us as a nation that we don’t care about our brothers and sisters?
KillgoreTrout : Sure you’re here CL I can “see you.” Great to have you here!
SueInCa : Hi CL
choicelady : Hi everyone – trying to catch up, I’m not there yet, but it’s great to see you all.
SueInCa : Sabreen SS is not included in the shutdown, that is why they prob do not care. It is all selfish me me me me for them
KillgoreTrout : glenn it’s a huge assault on the American people. I remember the days when news was news, not some weird sport or competitive entertainment. Today, there is a real team against team mentality in our media. They have sold out truth for ratings.
Sabreen60 : I wonder whether the average Joe Blow teabagger will have any regrets if the gov’t shuts down or the debt ceiling is not raised. They seem to believe that nothing really bad will happen. When enough of them lose their homes and jobs, will they still believe it’s not so bad. I’m not talking about the wealthy. I know they don’t give a damn. They’ve got enough money to get them to “end times” as far as they’re concerned. But these old farts that are out there protesting. What happens when they don’t get their SS checks. Or Medicare ceases? Then what?
SueInCa : I disagree with you on Koch power. I think President with their effed up values is a wet dream for both brothers but they will be satisfied with a puppet too.
AdLib : glenn – That list of demands is basically the product of infantile minds. They have no sense of how they come off in acting like brats throwing tantrums. Instead of threatening to hold their breath till they turn blue if they don’t get all the toys on their letter to Santa, they threaten destruction to the global economy. There is a term for people who would use the threat of destruction to extort others to bow to their demands…terror ists. Bin Ladin’s attack on 9/11 did a fraction of the economic damage a debt default would, how are they not terrorists too?
glenn : KT–Between the American public forgetting the past 48 hours, and the r/tps trying to rewrite history every other day, it’s no wonder some people can’t make sense of it all, and vote for the people “who stand for individual liberty.”
SueInCa : I agree Adlib but they are trying to treat Libertarian now as a progressive party. People who are one dimensional like say, weed, went with Paul because he was going to legalize it. They had no other reason for voting for him and the party can snag the crazy libs with shit like that. They count on the one dimensional voter, just like the baggers
KillgoreTrout : Absolutely glenn. In the movie Game Change, about Sarah Palin and he bid for VP, a very true statement was made. The American people don’t remember past a 48 hours news cycle. Any story, despite it’s relevance is almost forgotten by most of the public. That’s a very scary thought.
AdLib : Sue – And as for the Kochs and Co., they are just greedy plutocrats, that’s all they are trying to hide behind the facade of “libertarianism “. Do they really want all the government subsidies taken away from them? Of course not, they’re not libertarians, they just want to take the wealth of the nation for themselves and use the guise of libertarianism to hide that.
glenn : Sabreen–I’ve seen that list of demands, too. Where have they been the past four years? Why haven’t they brought any of those things forth in the House to be voted on? Have they? Why is it we’re only hearing about them now, when they think they have “leverage” with either shutting down the government or not raising the debt ceiling?
SueInCa : The Republican Party is now a party or morons and that is a result of their disdain for education. It helped them for quick soundbites but get a Palin in a one on one or even read her FB rants and you know the air is all that is up there.
AdLib : Sue – I wonder…the whole Libertarian thing seems like a facade to me. The core of the GOP are hateful racists who need a good excuse for being so. They are mostly poor, they don’t want the government taking away their Medicare or SS, they want it taken away from the black people and minorities. And they want to enshrine religious beliefs as law, all of this under the guise of “libertarianism “. It looks and smells like a total ruse.
Sabreen60 : Don’t know how the smiley face got in there??
KillgoreTrout : Sue, that will be their downfall. Surely after the last presidential election, money is not seen as a game changer. The Kocks and others lost millions of dollars trying to but the election. I think the American people, or at least a majority of them see past the BS and rhetoric.
SueInCa : You have a good point there glenn and it is obvious they are morons who do not understand the constitution or government for that matter
Sabreen60 : I heard PBO mention this in his speech at PG Comm College, but also someone tweeted it. The baggers have a list of demands:Delay Obamacare Keystone XL; Tax reform; Medicare means testing; Medical liability reform; Pension reforms for fed employees; Changes to Dodd-Frank; Easing EPA Rules; Restrictions on all regulations; More oil drilling. Not a damn thing about the deficit, because they know the deficit is falling and no longer a problem
glenn : KT–I think Libertarians and tpers live on sound bites. Whatever sounds good. They never bring it to its logical conclusion. Just like they want to defund Obamacare so that, according to them, the economy won’t collapse. Yet, they are willing to shut down the government, or not raise the debt ceiling, either one of which will collapse the economy so much faster than Obamacare ever could. I just don’t get their “logic”. Or maybe because, as you say, their “logic” is 200 years old, and was never “logic” in the first place.
SueInCa : Exactly the sleeping giant now needs to drop by the wayside but R’s created and abetted in creating that monster
AdLib : KT – Agreed but since the Baggers seem to dominate the primaries and local elections in red states, I don’t know that Repubs who are unhappy with them can dislodge them from the seat of power they have in the GOP…other than not voting and letting Dems takeover the House.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, I think that is true. The TP brought in votes for the GOP in 2010, but they have since showed themselves to be too radical for any viable political party.
SueInCa : Right KT but it is obvious from the money shelled out by Kochs that they don’t care
AdLib : glenn – Eventually, I think you’re right, once the Baggers get their candidate to run for President and they lose hugely, that should be the end of them. Until then, I think the hard core ones will remain influential in the GOP because they are the core of that disintegrating party.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, I think the TPers ARE composed of Libertarians. I also think the Liberatarians are living in the past. Maybe 200 years in the past.
glenn : Ad–You could be right–maybe more pubs would follow the tpers than tpers would follow the pubs. However, as KT says, even within the republican party, support for the tpers is falling rapidly.
SueInCa : KT that is what I have been thinking all week. The old wake up a sleeping dragon thing. They are prob regretting it now.
SueInCa : glenn from what I have read and written about the Kochs, the TPers would joing with libertarians and leave standard GOP by themselves. That is the goal of the Kochs ever since the brother lost the Pres election on the Libertarian party
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I think even traditional republicans are seeing that people like Cruz are a danger to the GOP. I mean, geez, the TPers are even too radical for the GOPers.
SueInCa : So they are two different things? I guess I thought they would all happen together Ad. No KT that was not it. I will see if I can find it but it sounded like you were answering me that they were still popular
glenn : Sue–I think the tp would fizzle out if they didn’t have the support and funding of the republican money-making machine. Or, maybe it would bring the Kochs out of the closet, and the Kochs would have to decide if they want to support the pubs or the tpers. I don’t know. At this point, though, I think that if the tpers had to stand on their own, they would collapse under their own rhetoric. I think people are sick of them.
AdLib : glenn – I wonder if things might go the other way around, if Baggers will cement their coup over the GOP and tell the rest of the Repubs to get on board or get lost? That seems to be what we’re seeing right now, especially with Cruz telling House Repubs to follow him instead of Boehner.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, I don’t think I contradicted myself. I do think the TP is less favored as they were at one point. I just read where support for the TP was down to 23%.
SueInCa : The GOP can only hope to silence them or get rid of them in a election. Hell that idiot that is the head of the RNC is a bagga
AdLib : Sabreen, I do think thaqt Obama would much rather have the government shutdown happen for a brief time to put the fear of God in Baggers after the massive public outcry and scare them away from defaulting on the debt ceiling.
SueInCa : glenn I think they would like too but it would make two minority parties
KillgoreTrout : glenn I agree with you, but I think the desperation within the GOP makes them cling to anything that is seen as progressive, or democratic.
glenn : Sabreen–I think that’s what PBO is aiming for. Here’s hoping he (PBO) keeps his promise to not negotiate about the debt ceiling this time!
SueInCa : that not hat
SueInCa : No problem I was talking about TP being finished and I thought that was what you referred to then up further you said something diff. Senior moments hit us all. Sabreen either MTS or Adlib prob have abetter idea about hat
glenn : Ad–I think repubs should throw out the tpers. Tell them to fund their own damn party. They have served their purpose for the pubs, now they should make them take “personal responsibility” for their actions. I hope we see that come about–that pubs finally say they have made too many right turns. “One right turn too many” could be their new slogan.
KillgoreTrout : I’m sorry Sue, I don’t remember what that was. Senior moment?
Sabreen60 : Just a thought. PBO knows that the Repubs do the exact opposite of what he wants. He doesn’t want them to close down the gov’t, so they do it. Could it be that refusing to raise the debt ceiling is far worst than closing down the gov’t. I know that shutting it down will be bad, but failing to raise the debt ceiling could be catastrophic. Maybe if the Repubs shut down the gov’t, everyone will see how really crazy they are and that will prevent them from failing to raise the debt ceiling. I know this is a somewhat grasping at straws, but is it a possibility?
SueInCa : Bill Maher is rather LA based. I am not really sure he has a pulse on the whole state, although he thinks he does lol. No KT you said something to me about not changing
AdLib : I do have to think that many Repubs will throw in the towel on the Baggers if they are hammered along with the rest of the nation by a gov’t shutdown or debt default.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, will what change? Boehners intelligence and courage?
glenn : Sue–okay thanks. I knew it was too good to be true–that there is a state without tps.
SueInCa : McClintock is one although he claims Libertarian, Kevin Murphy those are fed ones I know off the top of my head
KillgoreTrout : I think there are TPers in every state. Stupidity is not restricted to geography.
glenn : Sue–Are they federal teaparty reps or state?
SueInCa : KT what will change?
SueInCa : Oh they are here glenn. Up North and partly where CL lives. Some in the valley too. Hey sabreen
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen! Nice to have you with us!
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
glenn : Hey Sabreen!
KillgoreTrout : Sue, I think that may change after this Cruz fiasco. Party loyalty only goes so far.
SueInCa : What legislation has this rep run congress passed? If I were running, that would be part of my focus.
glenn : Sue–You are in a good place, aren’t you? In Maher’s piece, he claims there are no teaparty reps in CA. Is that true?
Sabreen60 : Hey folks. What a week, huh?
SueInCa : But tan man has proven he is not a leader KT and I think people with half a brain will notice that.
KillgoreTrout : I think even Boehner sees the TP as being futile and too radical.
SueInCa : Time will tell but either way I think they are finished. They have shown they cannot handle governing BUT GOTV will be a big deal for 2014. I know I am already getting info asking me to start
glenn : Ad–I agree with you that the r/tps will be blamed. I hope the blame translates into Dem control of the House in 2014, but again, I’m not holding my breath! However, if I were a Dem running for a House seat, I’d remind the voters of this at every opportunity!
glenn : Sue, Maybe. I think if the repubs actually wanted to put a stop to this nonsense, all they have to do is vote for against whatever Boehner finally decides to bring to the House floor. If the cowards had voted against the bill to defund Obamacare that they sent to the Senate, then I think they would cut have Cruz and his minions off at the knees. But they didn’t. As far as I know, only one republican voted against the first House bill. They blustered, bluffed, and bewildered, yet when it came time to actually DO something, they caved!
AdLib : glenn – This is one thing I feel very confident about predicting, if the government is shut down or the deficit ceiling isn’t raised, the Republicans will absolutely be blamed for it. They can’t escape the blame, they have been everywhere threatening to shut down government if their demands aren’t met, they are toast and there is no escape if they do this.
KillgoreTrout : glenn they can’t back down. That would be an admittance that their policies and beliefs are obsolete. That is their constant mistake. They are trying to hold on to a thing of the past. They keep ignoring a changing world. It’s suicidal, but they just can’t grasp that reality.
SueInCa : But glenn, that is why ole Newt is staying quiet. He knows it ruined him and maybe he is just willing to let them be so the party is rid of them without lifting a hand?
glenn : KT–But the r/tps only have the majority rule in the House, not in the Senate, and not in the White House. It’s also debatable that they have “majority rule” in the SCOTUS. IOW, they have the majority in about 1/2 of about 1/3 of the United States government.
SueInCa : The Tea billies are morons. They have no clue just what will happen if they shut down the government. BUT if they do, they are done. Hi KT and glenn
glenn : Hey Sue!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue, good to see ya!
glenn : Ad–I’m with you. I’m absolutely gobsmacked that the r/tps would try this nonsense. Yet, I am absolutely afraid that they will get away with it! I think they have painted themselves into such a corner that there is no way they will back down.
AdLib : Hey Sue!
KillgoreTrout : The TPGOP is afraid of losing their majority rule. The white man’s rule on power is coming to an end. It scares the racists silly. Or dangerous.
SueInCa : Hi Everyone
AdLib : Hey Murph!
AdLib : glenn – I really don’t know. Often, I am relatively confident enough about a situation to make a prediction but not in this case. The Baggers are absolutely capable and whipped up to shut down the government if for no other reason, to attack the government and prove they have power. Meanwhile, the establishment Repubs are going nuts, knowing that this could be the only way they lose the power they do have in DC. What do you think?
glenn : Murph–Love it!
MurphTheSurf3 : Obama at Prince George’s Community College to the crowd: “I don’t get it…..what are they (the GOP) afraid of?” And the answer from the crowd (a whole bunch of the crowd): “YOU! YOU! YOU!”
KillgoreTrout : What’s up Murph?
glenn : Hey, Murph–how goes it?
glenn : So, Ad and KT–will the government shut down? Will Cruz get to be a senator and speaker of the house?
AdLib : So true, I am continually in awe at how regularly brilliant that show is, as well as Colbert. And delivery is everything, there is no replacement for Jon Stewart, he is a singular talent.
KillgoreTrout : Stewart’s facial expressions are priceless.
MurphTheSurf3 : Obama to the crowd at Prince George’s Community College:
glenn : KT–Okay, JS’s writers, then. And Jon does seem to deliver them with “panache”.
KillgoreTrout : He’s got a great team of comedy writers. I think Jon’s forte is in the delivery of those lines.
glenn : Hey Ad, Hey KT–Jon Stewart always seems to come up with the best phrases!
AdLib : Hay glenn! Welcome! And yes, Cruz does inspire descriptions like that!
KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn. A real life case of constipation of the brain and diarreah of the mouth.
glenn : Hi everyone–cruzin for a bruisin with mouth masturbation!
KillgoreTrout : They nailed him, for sure. Ashton Kutcher giving sage advice? Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a!
AdLib : KT – Yep, saw that and loved it. And they did a Dr. Seuss parody on him too…I was going to write one that next day. For once, they beat me to it!
KillgoreTrout : There is no way the GOP will nominate him for pres. The man may haven’t gotten great grades in college, but he’s so out of touch with the real world, it’s absolutely laughable.
KillgoreTrout : The Healthcare Biil & Ted’s Excellent Adventure! (kudos to the TDS writers!
AdLib : Hey KT! Cruz has a lot more bruises comin’!
KillgoreTrout : Hi, I think Crus got a brusin.
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “Cruz-in’ For a Bruisin'” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!