Vox Populi – 8-23-2013

choicelady : Good night funk – good night AdLib. I’m now off to bed, too! And laundry tomorrow. UGH.

choicelady : AdALib – GG admitted knowing and working with Snowden BEFORE Snowden got the job with Booz. The NYT article on Laura Poitras showed that clearly. How then did Snowden GET the job with Booz when he had no credentials, no training, no history? THAT creeps me out – back to the fifth column issues. I think there is evidence Snowden gave info to both foreign nations – not all of it but some – but his seeking asylum and getting it has something for Putin. He’d not poke the US in the eye for nothing.

funksands : Thanks!

AdLib : Night Funk! You and the FunkFamily have a great weekend too!

funksands : Night everyone! Ad, take care of yourself and have a great weekend.

AdLib : CL – Should be an amazing time and so glad to know you’ll be there “representin’ “. Please feel free to post pictures or tweets or whatever from the march! Wish we were there!

AdLib : CL – We don’t know that Snowden gave China or Russia info that would have led to stopping disarmament talks. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t but my thought is that until we know he has betrayed the US to a foreign power, my focus has to remain on how he violated the laws I know he broke while being able to appreciate how some of that has been good for the American people, helping them learn just how vast and intrusive the NSA has become.

choicelady : funk – oh I know the HoneyDo lists. Give ’em out all the time! To little avail… I’m sure you will find a way around some of it, right?

funksands : list” is expanding exponentially.

funksands : Cl, that sounds amazing! Have fun and be safe! I’m not far behind you. 6 in-laws coming next week and my “honey-do

choicelady : AdLib – Frankly, given the hostility to PBO’s administration I’d be amazed if they contractors ever listened to them at all. I’m seeing this as another possible way to undermine the administration deliberately.

choicelady : Well folks, I have laundry to do to get ready for DC. I am headed to the REAL 50th march – PBO will speak. The original marchers will be there, and I and my little sign will be lost in the crowd but present. I was too young in 1963. Hope I’m not too old now! Good shoes, sun screen, water. I will report in two weeks!

AdLib : CL – I absolutely agree, contractors should be cut out of the loop from now on. If this is truly top secret government information, it should only be accessed by our government because contractors are accountable to no one. What I can’t say though is that some in the Obama Admin have not approved of some of these violations…I find it hard to believe that this was not known and possibly directed by government officials.

choicelady : good night Murph! Thank you for your work via the coop for that family and everything you brought us here!

choicelady : AdLib – NOT if Snowden has given info to China and Russia or enough that it stopped nuclear disarmament talks. Then he did real harm, not real good. The revelations about NSA over-reach by Booz could have been the focus. It has not been. It SHOULD BE.

funksands : Night Murph!

AdLib : Night Murph, sleep well!

choicelady : AdLib – I will read the NYT story later. But if FISA is saying NSA is not following the law, the issue for me is firing Booz NOW and turning this over to sworn government people who will NOT be fly by night contractors who evade Constitutional limits. But – we HAVE those limits back in place, and the court itself is trying to uphold them.

AdLib : Several things can be true. The NSA has been proven to be violating the Constitution and our 4th Amendment but Snowden also violated the law by leaking what he has. All sides are breaking laws but in Snowden’s case, it may have ended up being to the benefit of Americans to learn the lawbreaking of their government.

MurphTheSurf3 : My dear friends- heading off to bed now…this has been an excellent discussion.

choicelady : AdLib – that’s powerful to know, thank you.

choicelady : funk – sorry, pressed the wrong key. IF the Snowden documents have been given to China and Russia and if as good people are saying they have stalled or stopped nuclear disarmament talks, that is a serious BAD result. It is why these revelations needed to be done with great sifting of data and NOT a dump.

AdLib : CL – The news about the FISA courts finding the NSA unconstitutional ly violating Americans rights to privacy came from FOI requests.

choicelady : funk – that may well be, but for those of us ‘out here’ the issue of responsible revelation looms large.

choicelady : AdLib – did not see that, thank you. Then it opens my creeps again on private contractors. THAT, it seems to me, has to be a major part of the problem.

funksands : I think Ellsburg has many grave concerns about the state of the Information Industrial Complex. For good reason. I think anyone subjected to what he went through would have an inordinate amount of sympathy for Manning and Snowden.

AdLib : CL – Here’s an article on it from the NYT: «link»

choicelady : funk – But Ellsburg took CARE. Document dumps are the province of the grandiose. They did NOT take care. That could have been done. It was not.

choicelady : AdLib – Manning can appeal for parole in 7 years. The likelihood of his serving 35 is very low.

funksands : CL, but otherwise I agree with your comments on Ellsburg

choicelady : Murph – I think Ellsburg has given them way too much credit as whistleblowers and paid insufficient attention to their narcissistic press for publicity.

funksands : CL, like you just said. He didn’t have the ability to do a “document dump” to a third party electronically.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks for the background on this.

AdLib : Murph – Great background on Manning, it paints a much more complete picture of who he was and his motivations. He is a victim to a degree, of Assange’s agenda and the cowardice and manipulation of others. Does he have malice in his heart? I don’t think so. I can’t say he shouldn’t serve some time but 35 years seems far too harsh compared to the much shorter sentences that actual spies have served.

choicelady : funk – Ellsburg had a lot of data he chose – CHOSE – not to photocopy because it served no purpose and would have put troops in harm’s way. That could have been done by Manning, but Assange wanted it ALL.

choicelady : AdLib – I am not sure that this info is accurate. I’ve not seen it anywhere but blogs. Can you tell me other sources?

funksands : CL, to be fair, he didn’t have the physical ability to do what Manning did. I think comparing the two is apples and oranges for more that one reason.

choicelady : Murph – the caller pretended to be a reporter for NBC. I had once worked with folks in Burbank studios so called there, nope. They transferred me to the national desk – nope. So I do not know who the caller was – but the call came about 4 hours after the discussion meaning the discussion had been reviewed. No time for a warrant. It was just creepy as hell. From then on, it was openly the FBI.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Ellsberg has associated himself with Manning and Snowden with making the distinctions you have. Wish he had.

AdLib : CL – The FISA court stated that the NSA has indeed been violating the Constitution and intruding on the privacy of Americans, well past the “collecting metadata” stuff and they stated it has been going on for three years that they have deceived the FISA court on the truth. So, have to disagree, there are real revelations here.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice Was the caller FBI? Unnerving. You bet.

choicelady : funk – more to the point, Ellsburg took very great care to provide focused documents about a narrow set of subjects – not a dump of things about what Hillary Clinton thought of Sarkozy. That had no import, and it made things hard. NOW the data dump appears to have ENDED the talks between the US and Russia on nuclear disarmament – and that is totally dangerous!!!

AdLib : Murph – First, I don’t get the sense that Manning would have been permitted to whistleblow on military issues even with the whistleblower mechanism in place. That said, if he was actually doing it to whistleblow, taking that course or contacting his Senator would have made more sense. He seemed to want the attention and fame.

MurphTheSurf3 : Wikileaks played a pivotal role in this story, and not just as a passive leaking “platform.” As Manning tells it, his relationship with Wikileaks was deeply personal. Manning, who is openly gay and even then seemingly transgender, said he was having troubles with his roommate in Iraq because of his “discomfort regarding my perceived sexual orientation.” The crowd in the Wikileaks chatroom that Manning frequented were the same kind of non-judgmental geeks who hung out at the Boston hacker space Manning had visited in real life in early 2010. They gave him a sense of community and support. And this crowd encouraged him to expose corruption and suggested that he would be protected by the truth and regarded as a hero. The kid believed them. I suspect that Manning, absorbed by his virtual world, and filled with a desire to impress his new acquaintances really want to impress his new best friends. Where are they now?

choicelady : Murph – I spent TWO YEARS being watched by the FBI because of this one caller who demanded the names and addresses of my Board members around a totally internal email discussion about the violation of Muslim rights. From the moment I refused, lots of weird and creepy things happened, and finally I got out from under, but it was unnerving. Not more than that, but unnerving nonetheless.

AdLib : Funk – Excellent point! The circumstances that provided for Manning being able to be enlisted have a great deal to do with what happened. Someone with his psychological issues should never have been put into a situation where he had access to such top secret info.

choicelady : AdLib – it is indeed the use of private contractors that makes me VERY concerned. Are they required and compelled to obey the constitution or do they take it upon themselves to do ‘any means necessary’ to get what they want court rulings, Congressional directives, or anything?

funksands : Murph, Ellsburg turned himself in. He faced the music. That is a whistle-blower. He exposed the administration at the time for what they were.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- fascinating insight into what the Assange/Manning mean for folks like yourself. I need to spend some time thinking about this.

funksands : Ad: Exactly!!

AdLib : CL – Imagine how many private contractors may be on the payroll of Goldman Sachs, the Kochs, etc., funneling them all kinds of information on whoever they want. How can that not be happening as well?

choicelady : AdLib – I don’t see what is being done now as anything to be revealed. NONE of us is having our emails read or our conversations overheard. Ours were in April 2003 as you know – the NSA used to use ‘trigger words’ to read emails etc. They cannot do that. They cannot listen to you unless your phone number or message can be traced DIRECTLY to a known terrorist. Then they have to get a warrant. It is clear there needs to me more control over the FISC, but it is rotated, there are not the same people in any two years, and I have much more confidence than I did 2003 when we got “the call” from the person who knew our email conversation until 2009 when Obama stopped much of that. In between the courts reinstated warrants as MANDATORY, and it makes a huge difference.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- elements of the Snowden discoveries have been helpful but I find myself wondering if he had used the DOD whistle blower mechanism if it would not have all been for the best. Failing that – there are five senators I would have gone to…as it is now- there is value but it might have been there without the mess.

funksands : Ad, well said. That’s what makes this so hard. Manning is guilty. Manning shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place. Manning wouldn’t have been if the military hadn’t been so understaffed for specialists, which they wouldn’t have needed if we weren’t in two wars, which we wouldn’t have been if Bush hadn’t been such a tool.

choicelady : Murph – the one thing exposed is the fragility of private contractors. I think they cannot be trusted, hired this ill trained and inexperienced guy, Snowden, and who knows what other leaks they have allowed to occur? We who have worked to restore warrants and due process are having those issues LOST under the barrage of lies and misinformation. In Bush’s years, when my organization and I personally WERE spied upon, I could not get anyone to care. I hand it to those who fought the court cases and to congress for restoring the due process so that deliberate acts against us no longer happen with impunity and happen by illegal means quite rarely compared to those days. GG, Snowden, Assange – all supported BUSH spying on us all!!! That should tell us all we need to know.

funksands : The Manning and to a lesser extent the Snowden incidents defy easy analysis because they are fairly simple stories, but the exist in a very very complex context and layers.

AdLib : Sometimes, messed up people end up doing some positive things DESPITE their negative motivations.

funksands : “Ellsburg” rather.

AdLib : Murph – I do think that Snowden’s leaks have ended up being a positive thing for Americans and some of Manning’s leaks have too. One needs to be able to divine between some of the positive benefits of our government’s secrecy and dishonesty being exposed and the selfish agendas of those behind them.

funksands : I also blame the neutral actor of technological advancement. None of this would have been possible in the 70’s or even the 80’s. Now anyone with an axe to grind and a passing knowledge of computer systems can fashion themselves a Neo-Ellsbury

choicelady : AdLib – I now know that Assange is an out of the closet fascist, and it make everything far more clear. I’ve been pounding the ‘fifth columnist’ table for YEARS since AH became so obviously right wing again. I fear there are far more of them that we have not yet seen. Hope to hell they don’t work for the government.

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- and I agree with you as well.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I agree with your assessment.

funksands : Murph, its complicated. I blame the Military Information Complex for providing the soil for things like this to grow from.

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…and in all the energy around the guilt of Manning what is getting lost is the exposure of some very severe problems in the U.S. military and the intelligence community.

choicelady : Murph – GG and Assange and Snowden are narcissistic bomb throwers, and they accomplished NOTHING. Had they given us something solid – real insights – and accepted responsibility for them, it would possibly be different, but they just did data dumps that revealed the identities of pro democracy people who may have been killed for the revelations. Snowden told us nothing – he has lied repeatedly – and what he ‘revealed’ was already known if not in detail. I’d ask any sympathizer – did we, the people, have the right to know the date of D-Day, the fact we broke German codes, that we had secret infiltrators and wireless operators working against Hitler? Did we? I have yet to get an answer.

MurphTheSurf3 : Here is where discussions at the Planet differ from the typical blog discussion. The common progressive slant on Assange is that he is a hero for liberty….as this discussion shows….not nearly that simple.

funksands : CL, yeah. I’m with you. Taking everything else out of the equation; one is left with the sick feeling that the wrong guy is doing the time for all of this. I hate that.

AdLib : CL – Assange strikes me as someone with severe psychological issues but can’t quite figure them all out. What does he want? Power, obviously. And he has pursued a crusade intended to undermine the biggest nations. Could it be the fascists have a similar path so he feels like kin to them?

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I agree and then the oath to avenge himself and his partner.

choicelady : Murph – Manning was too screwed up to make good judgements, and that’s the problem. The wrong guy is facing 35 years.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Ad and Funk…I have written a good bit over at HP about how Manning’s options in the DOD in re. to whistle blowing (fear of reprisals and concern about how effective it is) and wikileakers played on this….and his very fragile ego.

choicelady : funk – that’s the covert part of Assange, the Fasciitis leanings.

choicelady : Murph – I think his use of his partner to OPENLY transmit documents that GG knew would get his partner, Miranda, detained, is creepy as hell. I think he’s no different from Assange. Hope Miranda ditches him!

funksands : I loved Glennnn vowing revenge against Great Britain for detaining his partner for 9 hours.

choicelady : AdLib – I’m not sure about the nihilism. I think he’s a fifth columnist and always had fascistic tendencies. He has come out against all kinds of things including abortion which makes his rape charges more clear – he forced women to have sex even after refusing to wear a condom which in Scandinavia IS rape. What the hell is he all about if not utter control and incredible narcissism? This move to open fascism really does not surprise me other than it blows his cover.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Ad- Greenwald always looks so happy when he is tearing others down…but at least the Snowden affair was handled with a bit more sensitivity…a bit.

funksands : CL, at least he isn’t an open Fasciitis….

AdLib : Murph – Assange and Greenwald for that matter, encouraging and pressing others to pursue their agendas.

choicelady : Murph – that was my comment about Assange. I totally agree. Anyone who would use such a damaged and fragile person that way is just pond scum. But now how are the EmoProgs going to justify Assange becoming an open FASCIST?

funksands : I find myself pulled in so many directions re: the Manning situation. I rarely comment on it because I’m so twisted up about about it.

AdLib : CL – I think Assange was always a kind of anarchist but after being pursued and sought for imprisonment by the West, I’m not as surprised he supports those who want America weakened.

MurphTheSurf3 : And good night Sue

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- Assange was not, is not, and will not be a “good guy”….He and his organization lured Manning into a series of moves that were disastrous on many fronts. The man is a sanctimonious user.

AdLib : Sue – Sounds like a delicious night! Enjoy!

funksands : Night Sue, good seeing you.

choicelady : funk – yeah. Can’t help that. born that way.

funksands : CL, the fasciitis part is okay though.

choicelady : Sue – go forth and indulge in peach pie and ice cream! Sounds GREAT and is well earned!

choicelady : funk – it’s the necrotizing part that creeps me out.

SueInCa : Well people my ice cream is thawed out and I have a piece of peach pie(Imade from scratch) calling my name. Good to talk with everyone. IF I am not here on a Friday, Anthony is here and hogging my computer lol. Night all

choicelady : AdLib – did you see where Assange came out full bore for Rand and his father and NOW – I cannot believe this but it’s true – Assange has joined the Australia First party that is openly FASCIST! That’s how weird it has become!

funksands : “Ladies and Gentleman the honorable Senator Necrotizing Fasciitis (R) TX”

choicelady : Sue – there were times when you could do that, could cross the aisle. Gaines started out pretty moderate. No more.

AdLib : And today we have Ted Cruz and Rand Paul as senators, definitely going backwards.

choicelady : funk – I was in college – Antioch – with the daughter of a very nice Republican Congressman from Astoria OR. I met him when he came to pick her up. He was very wonderful.

SueInCa : I agree Funk. I crossed the aisle with good people. It used to be about character.

SueInCa : I remember seeing Teddy in Martinez on the courthouse steps. It was about four weeks before Bobbie got shot. What a charasmatic man

funksands : Our local State Senator was re-elected for 30+ years. Honest, kind, straight-shootin g farm boy from our small town. Republican. Voted for him every time I could. These guys don’t exist anymore. It infuriates me that I am constrained to straight-ticket voting on a national and state level.

choicelady : Sue – there are lousy Dems for sure. Anyone who does not think those things – help to citizens – is important is a major asshat.

SueInCa : The Dem basically told me to eff off, he never responded. Gaines office did with calls and emails.

choicelady : My first was when I was way too young to vote – JFK. I lived in an almost entirely GOP town, and there were only three of us working for Kennedy – and we were too young to even DRIVE. It was great when he won!

SueInCa : CL he worked for months for me to get it back and never gave up. He got me interest too.

choicelady : Sue – I think constituent services are some elected folks’ ticket to re-election. That was good of him.

funksands : Sue, that’s cool. What a good guy he was. What a good man and fine citizen.

SueInCa : My first election…..and I worked for McGovern

choicelady : funk – there used to be. When my brother went after conscientious objector status during ‘Nam, he was supported by the Illinois republican senator. So those WERE the days.

SueInCa : Funk, mine was George McGovern. I went door to door.

funksands : The Palins have “habits” that 250K ain’t gonna cover.

SueInCa : He helped me get back 2000 dollars from the DMV CL

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- that’s 250 G’s more than she is worth….she owes us money.

choicelady : Sue – wish I’d known you. Gaines and his wife are horrid. BUT it is hard to tell sometimes.

SueInCa : I think Hannity.

funksands : I still remember my first political activity. Protesting Al and Tipper Gore outside of my high school for Tipper’s music censorship activity. After that it was volunteering for Jerry Brown’s very very brief Presidential run in 1991. What’s funny is that even then there were good Republicans to vote for in local and state elections.

choicelady : Sue – I’d heard that. It was a radio program that went down with Rush.

SueInCa : CL I voted for Ted Gaines twice. His wife was with ALEC but I could not find his name

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- you chose the path of wisdom…grassho pper…

choicelady : Sue! Oh the indignity of a mere quarter million to an ill-educated hussy! How can she bear it???

SueInCa : Oh and Hannity lost a show somewhere besides Fox

choicelady : Murph – only Republican for whom I voted was a local County supervisor. It was years ago, and she was great.

SueInCa : Did everyone learn how much of a paycut Palin had to take? LOL she is only getting 250 thousand lol

funksands : CL, thanks.

choicelady : Sue I think it was Savage, yes.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- my first presidential vote for a Dem was Clinton, second term. Then I fell for the Bush as the compassionate conservative line (and I deeply distrusted Gore)- well that taught me….I have been Dem at the local and state level for many years.

choicelady : funk – it may well have been different in different areas, but in Oakland and a number of places, Black people were cut out of the decision making process, were silenced, were pushed away. Check archives of Angry Black Lady for some of it.

SueInCa : Savage, I think , CL

SueInCa : Well that answers that question Murph. We need people like you.

funksands : CL, I’ll bite. How was Occupy racist?

SueInCa : Yeah I think they are keeping Flush out of spite

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- I was one of them for a long time..Karma.

choicelady : Sue – but the boycott did get another large network to drop Rush and another RW screamer!

SueInCa : You sure have a way with the GOP Murph

choicelady : Murph – that’s great news!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the president of the Appalachian State Student Government is a very bright young man from one of NC’s prominent GOP families and he has added his name to the effort.

choicelady : funk – I do NOT want Occupy back. They are racist and class biased. They harmed many working people and did NOTHING to bring change. If they guided others, fine. But they were just self indulgent screamers.

funksands : North Carolina owes its very existence to the military and Education Industrial Complex. Biting one of the hands that feeds you is bad business.

SueInCa : Boycotts work except with Clear Channel they like to lose money. Bain capital is management firm Hedges

AdLib : Murph – Interesting. After seeing how the voter suppression in FL and elsewhere whipped up resolve to wait in long lines to vote, maybe the best thing that can happen is for the NC insanity to stay in place for a little while, when it doesn’t matter, to energize a real revolt at the polls in 2014.

choicelady : Sue – sorry – Chris Hayes is who I’m thinking of.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- Chris Hedges or Hayes?

choicelady : Murph – that’s GREAT strategy! I suggested to the public employees I Ohio they do the same, and they did a bit of it – you don’t like us? We’re the only middle class you have and we can and will spend less in YOUR store if you break us.

funksands : CL, Occupy will be back. They nearly got it right. It just won’t be “Occupy”. What they DID do was provide some very very valuable lessons to other organizations. That itself is really helpful.

SueInCa : Chris Hedges?

choicelady : Sue – Chris, whom I’ve met and liked at the time, has let his huge ego get ahead of facts. I heard he’s being cancelled – his rating are in the toilet.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I did a lot of work for Obama in 2008 in NC. I called one of my contacts there today and asked if she had any thoughts on this. She says that the rage is building there and that she hopes the DOJ holds off long enough for the students to realize what is being done to them. She is working with the students at Appalachian State in organizing a boycott of all town and county businesses. Theme: If we are not good enough to vote here, then our money is no good either.

SueInCa : Personally I think Chris Hedges was involved in Occupy. He sure has changed from the Bush days

AdLib : Indeed CL, Holder will nail NC’s ass to the wall, they have. They have no legal defense.

choicelady : Sue – even Jerry does not have universal power.

SueInCa : I think you may be right Funk

choicelady : funk – and they are being done for REAL issues affecting REAL people. They affirm positive values and do not just rail against “them”. They have a very clear set of messages and solutions.

SueInCa : AG has promised more cases against the bankers. No but he might as well be. I cannot imagine CA being ruled by one bigot

funksands : You know why one reason Moral Mondays are successful? They aren’t occupying anything. No one likes to be occupied.

choicelady : Sue – is he a Koch? I can’t keep them all in order…

SueInCa : Good for them, I was so disappointed in NC but I should have known a Kock from another mother was involved

choicelady : AdLib – I think NC is the next AG law suit for sure.

choicelady : Sue – and they are diversifying. MMs are now moving into other days!

AdLib : Is there any question that NC is going to be slapped down hard in the courts for their clearly bigoted voter suppression? It won’t exist by the time 2014 comes along.

SueInCa : Moral Mondays are picking up too.

choicelady : What happened to AdLib? Did the caramel corn overwhelm his house?

choicelady : funk – damned if I really know why people are as they are.

funksands : CL, that’s a really good point.

choicelady : funk – oh, you’ll adjust to having a husband. Your wife did.

choicelady : Murph – yup. The head of the NC council of Churches is very much engaged in the Moral Mondays actions. It is a highly diverse and integrated group led by Black pastors but not limited to them. It is making clear that not everyone thinks the NC policies are cool!

SueInCa : Be back

SueInCa : LOL it was a hoax funk and it was not on the Onion or Newslo, I would have known then.

funksands : CL, THAT is the $1 million dollar question. Why are addicts of any type an addict? Is it genetics? Environment? Upbringing?

funksands : Sue, someone should teach that. I feel totally unprepared for my Obamacare FEMA assigned gay spouse I’m going to get.

choicelady : funk – So why are some of us immune to the WHAT-WHO-NOT YOU message and others fall for it?

SueInCa : No we did not bitch about it, but we know next time to tell them

MurphTheSurf3 : The GOP desperation is so evident in states like NC. Did any of you see Rachel last night- what a low key and deadly taking apart of the tissue thin conspiracy that the GOP is mounting at the behest of Pope- a koch brother by another mother-

funksands : “WHAT to be afraid of / WHO to blame / Its not YOUR fault” Is a very compelling message. It has been for 10,000 years.

SueInCa : Oh hell that was a hoax

choicelady : Sue – you mean converting straights to gay? Or vice versa? Like that’s THEIR expertise and right?

AdLib : Sue, I prefer regular popcorn at movies. They probably thought it would be a treat for people because they like it, without thinking that not everybody has their preferences. Whoops! Hope they refunded your money.

choicelady : AdLib – who knows why? My friends two sons, one an ex con the other an unemployed meth user, both vote GOP. Tell me THAT makes sense?

SueInCa : Did you hear Arizona is going to teach gay conversion in school?

choicelady : funk – you have summarized the entire problem in a slogan. Well done.

AdLib : CL – yes but aside from being able to vote for hate, what do these Repub voters think voting in Repubs will do for them? I kind of know the answer, they don’t think that far but really?

funksands : Howdy Murph

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello funk

funksands : “Vote Republican: Because if you don’t your new assigned gay marriage partner will steal your stuff and sell it to anchor babies who are on welfare while freedom dies”

SueInCa : Well he does not mind crashing plains, might as well make it worthwhile to the poor Syrians

choicelady : funk!!!! I’d be afraid of people like you, too, if I did not know YOU.

choicelady : AdLib – it’s the ‘freedom’ of using the N word, of hanging girle nudie calendars in your place of business, of being immune from THOSE people with weird sexuality – people are just afraid of everyone who is not just like them. Part of my family is like that – they could not bear the idea that one of my cousins would consider marrying a Jew. So she did not. And her handsome WASP husband abandoned her and their son. But at least he was Methodist…

SueInCa : Vote Republican because you are a sadist

AdLib : Sue – Very funny about a McCain accidental kamikaze into Assad!

funksands : Ad: “Vote Republican, because you are just a whisper away from being part of the 1%”

SueInCa : Not me Funk, not me. i think you are pretty cool

AdLib : Let’s see, “Vote Republican and we’ll take away your health care, keep illegal immigrants from paying taxes, kill Social Security and Medicare, oppress women and force them to have babies from their rapists, slash funding for food stamps and all kinds of programs for the poor and…we’ll cut your taxes…as long as you’re in the 1%…otherwise, if you’re in the 99%, you’re a taker and we need to “broaden the tax base”…meaning , you deadbeats will be paying higher taxes! Now, who wants to vote for us?”

funksands : I’m afraid of nearly everyone like me.

SueInCa : Adlib did you see my comment about popcorn? At the movies this week, they snuck kettle corn in our buttered popcorn without us asking for it. I did not want kettle corn….

choicelady : AdLib – if you’re afraid of everyone who is not like you, and you’re white, middle class or deeply religious or living on the edge and thinking “they” have all the benefits, then yeah – voting GOP seems to make sense. It’s people pining for white supremacy, for a kind of privacy that allows them NOT to care about other people’s rights, for a lack of rules. They think they were more free “back then” – but it was a myth then even while they thought it.

SueInCa : I also suggested that McCain take another 50 million dollar plane and fly it into Assad’s place of residence, bunker, hole in the ground, whatever. Old man should be good at that.

SueInCa : Adlib I would not vote Republican if there were only two of us on earth

MurphTheSurf3 : Oh Sue…good…gla d you are staying

choicelady : Oh good – don’t want to lose you, Sue!

AdLib : Can anyone give one affirmative reason to vote Republican? I mean, even their single-mindednes s over deficits is meaningless now with deficits falling.

SueInCa : I am not leaving yet, just commenting on everyone else leaving when I got here

MurphTheSurf3 : Nite Sue….will spend some time looking at the fracking issue

choicelady : Good night Sue – wonderful to see you! Send pix of the earrings – can’t wait!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- yeah, KT

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- valued her insights.

choicelady : AdLib – oh good, I’m glad you’ve seen Assumed recently.

SueInCa : Night everyone. I looked away and people started checking out.

choicelady : Sabreen – good night. Hope you get rest.

AdLib : Night Sabreen!

Sabreen60 : I’m out, too. Take care everyone.

choicelady : Night Patsy – sweet dreams! Hope next week is less stressful!

choicelady : Murph – no, I’ve not seen Assumed for several days. And I also want to know where KT is!!!!

AdLib : Night Patsy, great seeing you here!

choicelady : AdLib – this is a dream. It has things I have to learn and get used to, but it’s FAST, and that’s great.

AdLib : Murph – Yes, Assumed was here on Thursday I believe.

PatsyT : I must say nighty night folks. This week has really drained me.. All the best to you

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I think you have the GOP game plan pretty well laid out.

AdLib : Night glenn! I will put that together!!!

SueInCa : Sweetie, change to wireless, much faster

choicelady : glenn – goodnight! Lovely to have you here!

AdLib : YAY CL! SO happy for you! Bet you’re thinking back to how slow the old one is and just loving this one!

MurphTheSurf3 : Has anyone seen “Assumed” for a while?

Sabreen60 : Good night glenn!

choicelady : glenn and Sue – got a cheapo computer a Lenovo at Office Max, but it has major bells and whistles. Just takes forever to download updates. Otherwise pretty cool. And FAST! We also got our DSL updated, so I’m a whiz!

SueInCa : Nite Glenn…

glenn : Alright folks–my turn to say good night. Take care, and I’ll see you around. Going to sign the petition, and Ad, I’ll be looking for the Planet’s card to Ms. Tuff. G’night all.

AdLib : Murph – Exactly! I want to see The Wizard’s birth certificate! I think he was born in Whoville! He could be a Who, from a foreign fairy tale! Impeach!!!

SueInCa : Hey where is KT? He is not supposed to not be here lol

SueInCa : what did you get CL?

glenn : CL–Congratualti ons. So now you like your new computer?

choicelady : All – I am on a roll tonight – MUCH larger screen and much easier to see both the commentary AND my own reply. I just joined the 21st century!

SueInCa : YW Sabreen

AdLib : Murph – This is the reason for all of the voter suppression by the Repubs, they can see it all slipping away and flipping by 2020, possibly for many decades and they are trying by hook or by crook to keep the majority from having the government they want.

choicelady : Murph – that is their campaign for impeachment for sure!

MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB….The Wizard is a Lizard and at Odds with Oz…impeach him…send him back to Kansas (or Kenya)

glenn : Ad–Of course, they’d impeach him. He’s different, isn’t he?

Sabreen60 : Thanks Sue. Signed.

choicelady : AdLib – I was JUST thinking something along those lines about the Wizard!

glenn : Murph–from your keyboard to the ballot box. Let’s get ‘er done!

AdLib : glenn – The irony is that even though the Baggers lack a brain, heart and courage, if the Wizard of Oz tried to give them any of that they’d try to impeach him.

SueInCa : No prob CL

choicelady : Thank you, Sue!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- 2014 has to be the start of a series of wave elections in which we get back state legislatures to get ready to redistrict in 2020-

SueInCa : No prob Patsy

PatsyT : Thanks Sue!

choicelady : Murph – that’s a wise insight, thank you. I think you’re right about Mrs. Robinson.

SueInCa : Night AB

MurphTheSurf3 : Night AB…ordered the bumper stickers…great lead. I know where they can go.

glenn : Ad–Yup–a brain and a heart–two things r/tps sorely lack.

SueInCa : It took me a minute, but here is the petition «link»

choicelady : Sabreen – I seriously don’t think such tactics would have helped I CT – he shot everyone before they could say anything, but in MANY such events, it can and clearly does work.

Sabreen60 : Good night AB. Take care.

AdLib : The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good woman with a brain and a heart.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- training and a quality of character…yep no Annie Oakley…I had a funny feeling listening to her and though of Marian Robinson, the First Lady’s mom…don’t know why…just did.

AlphaBitch : Ad: To our shero, Ms. Antoinette Tuff??? Jes kidding. We’ll figure it out. Night night.

glenn : Good night, AB. Have a great weekend moving.

choicelady : AB – have a good day tomorrow with Pup. Glad you will have some free time!

Sabreen60 : PBO called Ms. Tuff. She probably saved many lives. The guy had 500 rounds of ammunition.

PatsyT : Happy moving for you and the pup AB

glenn : Murph–do you think the 2014 elections will bring down the house of tea?

AlphaBitch : Okey dokey pokies. My bed time. We move the Pup into the dorm tomorrow. I’m kid free until October, when we host a young man from Turkey for a leadership fellowship for one month.

choicelady : Murph – glad your town halls are showing the truth and challenging the lies.

AdLib : AB – Yep, we can do that! How should we write it?

choicelady : AB – Mr. Pickens had a ballot measure here to do unregulated gas drilling. He pretended it had nothing to do with him…

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- yes….the most recent town halls are sowing many cracks in the facade.

AlphaBitch : I know, CL. T Boone Residoo-doo. I like T-Bone, but not T-Boone. You can’t fool me.

choicelady : Murph – Ms. Tuff and the entire school were trained in crisis management. Obviously part of this – a significant part – is HER character coming to the fore, but it shows how well people can respond when they have planning and understanding of their own power. No need for Annie Oakley.

glenn : Murph–it seems as though many r/tp lies are coming home to roost nowadays. They just keep getting caught in them. Perhaps it’s because they’ve told so many, they just can’t keep them straight, and sometimes the truth actually comes out.

AlphaBitch : Ad – Couldn’t we send it to the school???? They would probably give us a link or an address. We’ll talk later.

AlphaBitch : Glenn – I’d try talking ’em out of their pants. That way they’d be butt nekkid, like God intended when they was borned.

choicelady : AB – oh gosh I am SO sorry you all have T Boone’s residue in your water!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the NRA is stunned and coupled with the exposure of THEIR national gun owners list….not a good couple of days for them.

AlphaBitch : Hey scary stuff here, too. Found out that the Edwards Aquifer (the underground lake that supplies water to San Antonio) has been storing extra water in the Carrizo Springs Aquifer – which is RIGHT OVER the frackingest place in TX. Poisoned water, now coming to you courtesy of T Boone Pickens. NO one here knew. Sheesh! It’s hard keepign people informed as to our poisons here..

Sabreen60 : AdLib, Since when has logic ever been important to the baggers.

glenn : AB–There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you could talk a maniac out of anything–or anyone else for that matter!

choicelady : Sue – I will look for the petition and sign it! Thank you.

PatsyT : World wide Evil

SueInCa : Let me see if I can find the link

PatsyT : Guys I know way too much about Fukushima That industry is Evil Evil Evil

AdLib : AB – Sure, I could set up a letter here that folks could sign and send the link to her…if I could find her email, Facebook or Twitter address.

choicelady : Murph = I started crying watching her. I’ve been in less dangerous but similarly tense stand offs with abusive men, and handled it in the same way. I could FEEL her compassion and her fear!

SueInCa : Thanks to Patsy, I got involved in following the story. Tepco has been lying for months

glenn : AB–like you idea of a PlanetPOV card.

glenn : Sue–Love it. I’m going there after VOX to sign it.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- I will sign it.

choicelady : Sue – I cannot believe Fukushima! That is so scary -and who knows the consequences to the world?

SueInCa : Charles Blow has a petition on WH.gov to giver Antoinette Tuff the Medal of Freedon

AdLib : Sabreen – But the ACA is unconstitutional (no matter what the SCOTUS says) so how can he be breaking the law by changing an unconstitutional law?

AlphaBitch : Glenn – no only in my mind. Like “What would I do?” (Note: It’s always about me)

choicelady : Sabreen – yeah. The “change” was postponing the fine for large corporations. Uh huh. That is not a legal or policy issue but an administrative one, but hey – any port in the storm of impeachment.

AlphaBitch : Why don’t we write her a big old Planet POV card???

glenn : AB–you were with Patty Hearst?

Sabreen60 : glenn, Wasn’t she great. Talk about cool and calm under pressure!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…Antoinet te Tuff…one very wonderful lady…I must say she left me speechless…and that takes a lot of doing.

SueInCa : So is everyone up to date on Fukushima?

AlphaBitch : CL; You don’t have it memorized yet???

choicelady : glenn – that Ms, Tuff (do I have her name correct?) is one AMAZING woman indeed. I could FEEL her as she started calling him baby and sweetie. I love her!

AlphaBitch : Glenn- she’s exactly like I would be! I’d be chattering away. I discovered that aspect of my likelihood during the Patty Hearst days. Make friends with your captors. Why not?

SueInCa : Oh dang, I forgot about her. I had just started watching off and on too

Sabreen60 : AdLib, I think the impeachment is based on — wait for it -+- the fact that PBO made a change to the ACA law.

choicelady : AB – that’s a great service, reading out loud! I do all the driving though. Could be tricky…

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue…Momma is Stephanie Miller.

AdLib : Hey Sue!

glenn : AB–speaking of gun rights–how about our little GA school secretary who talked down the gunman at her school? What a brave, empathetic, and heroic woman!

SueInCa : ha ha ha I have hated that all my life Murph

AlphaBitch : Me too CL. He thinks I’m doing well reading aloud. I read for nine hours straight on our road trip and cracked myself up.

MurphTheSurf3 : SUE….how do you do!

SueInCa : Who is Mama?

choicelady : AB – glad the Blov likes it!

PatsyT : Hey Sue!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sab…of course her contract with Current doesn’t mean much when there is no Current.

AlphaBitch : Murph – yes, she is going to have an announcement that cannot be made until AFTER the Current contract expires 9/1. So stay tuned. Momma is coming back.

SueInCa : Hi Sabreen

choicelady : AdLib – that would seem to be a point of impeachment, yes. So what if he was only the junior Illinois Senator? Obviously it was ALL HIS FAULT.

Sabreen60 : Hey Sue!

SueInCa : No caramel corn for me Ad, damn theatre snuck kettle corn in our buttered corn at The Butler this past Tuesday

AlphaBitch : CL – I’m reading Lamb to the Blov. He likes it better than he thought! I’m on the final week now…

Sabreen60 : Murph, No not yet. But she said she a couple of deals in the works. Her contract with Current isn’t up until the first week in September. I don’t expect any announcement before then.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB…what is coming up 9/1..does Steph have a gig…I got addicted.

choicelady : Sue – how very cool!

AlphaBitch : Fugelsang was the son of a nun and Jesuit. Don’t even try to smoke him with religous nut talk.

AdLib : So is the idea that Obama needs to be impeached for the Katrina diaster?

choicelady : Sue – glenn is right. There’s a new poll where 29% of the GOP blame Obama for all that went wrong after Hurricane Katrina. NOT making that up!

SueInCa : CL they are lucite flowers with antique brass bead caps, I will pass on a pic on email tomorrow

AlphaBitch : Me!

glenn : Ad–I’ll have some, please.

PatsyT : Yum

AlphaBitch : Murph- coming up 9/1. Will let all know.

AdLib : 5 quarts of caramel corn, who wants some!

choicelady : Sue! GREAT to see you, friend! Tell us what kinds of earrings you’re making?

glenn : Sue–the new blame Obama game is blame him for Hurricane Katrina–and for being president while black–so he’s just asking to be impeached.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- Is Stephanie Miller on another channel now? I have been looking…

AlphaBitch : Me too Sabreen. I watched all 3 hours every day. How I came to know and love Fugelsang, and then got addicted to Viewpoint. Wow, that was a GREAT show.

SueInCa : Stephanie Cutter? On CNN? WTH?

choicelady : AB – another good health care plan name.

Sabreen60 : AB, I would record Stephanie and watch her later in the day.

choicelady : Murph – that’s pretty cool to know. Our savings with ATT run out in 2 years. I will look at dish stuff then.

AlphaBitch : The Fetuses Refuse to Be Registered Gun Rights Health Care Law??

SueInCa : Hi all, I got involved making a pair of earrings and the time got away from me. How is everyone tonight and what can we blame Obama for tonight?

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- NewsCorp has a major interest, yes….but from I can see does not interfere.

choicelady : Patsy – you are on a roll with that bun.

PatsyT : Sorry AdLib said Oven..

choicelady : AB – we are saving a BUNDLE. I’m ditching Credo/Working Assets because it doesn’t WORK, never mind the name. I can give my money to causes without them – they are not good to their employees, have lousy service, and annoy the hell out of me with their emoprog zealotry.

AlphaBitch : Sabreen – I have the pod casts now and it’s lessened the Steph w/drawals. Plus watch – after September 1st there will be an announcement of a new TV home. Let’s hope we can get it or there WILL be hell to pay. AlphaBitch don’t tolerate that shit.

AdLib : Hey AB – Back a bit on the thread, yes, be happy to forward the bumper sticker to Murph!

PatsyT : Keep That Bun In The Oven No Matter What Care Plan

glenn : Ad–did you make enough for the whole gang?

choicelady : AdLib – better have saved some of that corn for us or we’ll riot!

AlphaBitch : We get a HUGE discount with AT&T; can’t say why when google is crawling, but SOMEBODY has some “workable” connections there….

choicelady : Murph and AB – isn’t Direct owned by Rupert? How odd he’d have them but ATT won’t?

Sabreen60 : AB, I get Al-jazeera. I’m kinda going through withdrawal since Current was sold. At least I miss Stephanie Miller, but that was really the only program I watched.

AdLib : Okay, the caramel corn is in the oven and I’m back!

choicelady : AB!!! LOL! And if you look, all the censorship comes from private entities.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB Direct TV- highly recommend them….best service from a cable company (actually satellite) I have ever had.

AlphaBitch : Yeah, Funkster and I have communicated sometimes. I plan on meeting all the Sands.

AlphaBitch : Call AT&T CL and raise hell. Tell them it is not up to THEM to censor you; it’s up to our government.

glenn : AB–I get it too–on DirecTV

choicelady : AB = you can meet funk who lives north of Seattle, and I come up there at least once per summer. We will figure something out.

AlphaBitch : What do you have Murph that you get it?????

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and AB- Al Jazeera is really quite incredible- the best new in news I have seen in a long time.

AlphaBitch : Murph! You peeked. Nothing happened. I swear.

choicelady : Murph – yikes. Now the Lady DooWops have to behave better. Not behave entirely – just better.

AlphaBitch : Would LOVE that! These women are powerful. Judges and attorneys and truly wonderful. And we are going to spend next summer in Seattle to ex-cape the heat.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB “Wow, with Ad & Murph away from the mikes, it’s Lady DoWop time!” BIG LAUGH!

choicelady : AB – I just got U-Verse and could not find Al J. Now I know why.

choicelady : AB! Maybe we can rendezvous!

Sabreen60 : AB, That should be my moniker, “Lady DooWop”.

AlphaBitch : Hey! who gets al-jazeera? We don’t. Thanks, AT&T. At least they are being sued.

choicelady : Patsy – See? Jesus is just the ‘get out of jail free’ card. Nothing more.

AlphaBitch : No, CL. As in Louisiana. But I’m coming to Palm Springs January 3-6 for a birthday celebration for a friend.

choicelady : AB – LA as in Louisiana or Los Angeles? In the latter, no one would know or care.

PatsyT : Vinter and friends I mean

PatsyT : They get to go to the great big Jebus camp and come back all forgiven and ready for more orders from their right wing managers.

choicelady : Sabreen – TMI and BAD VISUALSQ!!! And still he’s politically viable which says something about the GOP lack of standards.

glenn : Patsy–it’s always difficult to find the head on a r/tp–they think with their little one so often.

AlphaBitch : Sabreen – there’s “toots” and there’s ‘tutes. Maybe I can get a Vitter wears diapers bumper sticker made before I go to LA next???

choicelady : AB – my friend supported him but has endured endless icks from him. He is a very sick puppy.

Sabreen60 : AB, “spanked by ‘tutes!

AlphaBitch : Wow, with Ad & Murph away from the mikes, it’s Lady DoWop time!

AlphaBitch : But hey – let’s not forget Louie Gohmert and “Aspersions on My Asparagus”.

AlphaBitch : Filner makes me squirm and itch. I think there’s a cream for that…

choicelady : Patsy – I always thought they feared they’d enjoy it.

PatsyT : Now I know why they hate the anal exam at the doctors office, they are afarid they will find their head up there.

AlphaBitch : I recommend catching John Fugelsangs F Bombs on you tube. He can shut down religious idiots faster than Ted Cruz can deny he’s Canadian.

choicelady : AB- Bob Filner the San Diego Mayor who has indeed harassed women (including a friend who is a RABBI) resigned, and all I could think is of Vitter. Eeeeeuuuuuwwwww.

glenn : Sabreen–I agree. Our prez is cool. I don’t know how he has kept his cool with all the hatred spewed at him. He’s a remarkable man!

choicelady : glenn – LOL!!! yeah = who can tell the difference in some folks?

choicelady : glenn – all these months, and PBO never twitted Romney about the fact that NOW and ONLY NOW is Romneycare actually affordable. Romney’s plan was ruinous.

AlphaBitch : CL – not if you look at the fact 29% think Obama is to blame for Katrina. Well why the hell not? Their Senator wears diapers and gets spanked by ‘tutes.

glenn : CL–First, you have to have a preliminary exam to determine the head from the ass–then ACA will cover the colonoscopy.

Sabreen60 : Yep glenn, I heard that. It was funny. He’s such a cool guy.

choicelady : AB – is there enough brain tissue to matter?

choicelady : Murph – see you!

choicelady : AB – Got your head up your ass? ACA will give you a FREE colonoscopy!

AlphaBitch : Can we remove the remnant of brain they have and call it a headroidectomy?

MurphTheSurf3 : POPPING OUT FOR A FEW MINUTES…CALL.

glenn : Sabreen–PBO also called out romney today. Said something about how the people in MA love their health care plan that a certain republican governor passed and how Obamacare was modeled after that same plan. I don’t have the exact words, but it was pretty funny!

choicelady : AB – that was a different ‘clean up’ allusion.

choicelady : AB – I like that one so long as you have an asterisk that colonoscopies are free…

AlphaBitch : CL – I spent all day yesterday cleaning. No thank you.

PatsyT : AB HA! Major LOL!

choicelady : AB – you and Patsy could clean up. Your work spontaneously is better than all the stuff major PR firms are doing!

AlphaBitch : The Help My Head is Up My Ass Healthcare Plan.

Sabreen60 : Oh and PBO called out the Governor of PA for slashing funds from education. I loved it.

choicelady : Patsy – that one the truck drivers red save your neck plan is my fave!

AlphaBitch : Patsy – are you in advertising? Seriously. We maybe should start a PR firm for Dummies. Or Teapublicans. same diff.

glenn : Murph–to get my passport from home.

choicelady : Sabreen – I watched the one at UB where I have tons of friends even yet. He was amazing.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I think the Dems in Ga were smart not to oppose what seems reasonable on the surface and to convert it to some of their own purposes.

PatsyT : The Pick Up Truck Drivers Red Save Your Neck Plan

choicelady : AB – LOL!!! You two are a national treasure!

Sabreen60 : Didn’t anyone hear PBO’s speeches at the colleges? I caught the one with VP Biden in Scranton. He’s put forth some good ideas to help reduce to cost of higher education.

choicelady : AB – I will look at Café press, too.

AlphaBitch : CL: Blov and I once made up the Ronnie Reagan Patriotic Religious Freedom National Security Act name for any bill we thought should be passed. I’m letting Wendy Davis in on the secret…

choicelady : Sabreen – you indented again. I am in awe.

Sabreen60 : Yeah. I can’t see caramel corn and tequila.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB-just went to cafe press….not quite as good a price as you got but still very reasonable.

choicelady : Murph – when I can pry it from hubby’s cold living hand, I will be delighted to compare notes!

glenn : Murph–I didn’t live here then, but it seemed to work. However, I still think there it’s a little difficult to “navigate”. When I moved here from FL, they wouldn’t accept my FL driver’s license as photo ID. I had to make a 40-mile round trip to get my passport. A minor inconvenience for me, but I don’t know what other people do who don’t have passports and move here from other states.

AlphaBitch : No, I like your first take, Patsy.

choicelady : AB – they are giving Ogilvie, a PR firm, millions to name and promote ACA. I’d give YOU the same money for doing the job WELL. You REALLY understand how to sell an idea!

PatsyT : Or should it be Care for you Cold Dead Hands?

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- like your alternative takes on Zealot…..I found the book compelling as it is written outside of an assumed faith context and it is very sound scholarship.

AlphaBitch : Patsy!!!

AlphaBitch : Makes me mean, CL. My Pashtun boy and I laughed so hard about how stubborn and hard headed we both are. A true match.

PatsyT : CharltonHestonCo ldDeadHandsCare

choicelady : AB – oh that combo – caramel corn and tequila – makes me nauseated…

AlphaBitch : They had a special on when I got them Murph. But they are great. I love it. How do you argue with them apples, huh???

choicelady : AB – good name, too!

MurphTheSurf3 : AB- Cafe Press…I will order some.

AlphaBitch : Carmel Corn and Patron. Oh Lawdy!

choicelady : AdLib – bring enough caramel corn for us all!!!

PatsyT : Thats a great one AB!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- the Atlanta Journal Constitution ran a series on the voter id effort- Dems got in at the ground floor when it went to the Assembly in 2005 and managed to turn it into a real bipartisan bill that worked.

choicelady : Murph – you mean that Zealot is not “Jesus with a gun”? Oh how the Dominionists shall weep.

AdLib : Hey folks, BRB, helping my daughter make caramel corn!

AlphaBitch : Patsy: That’s the Ronnie Reagan Proud Gun Owners White Pride Care Climate Deniers Health Plan. Let’s get it straight, girl!

choicelady : AB – thank you!

glenn : Hey AB–Just wanted to say “hi” before you left.

PatsyT : I’ll have to check it out CL.. Thanks

choicelady : Murph – oh, that makes me gleeful indeed. Now to wrestle it away from my husband…

AlphaBitch : No Murph – just hand it to the next uninformed idiot. They cost me $1 each at Cafe Press. I only have 4, but CL, you deserve one, too. And I think I still have an addy for you.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Zealot….it is all the bad news the right wing Faux Christians do not want to hear…powerful.

glenn : Murph–I try to keep up with the news, but there doesn’t seem to be much about voter ID here in GA. There has been news about the republicans here in the state legislature trying to change the time of the primaries. They want to move it from Jan., when a lot of people are around to the end of May, when many people are on vacation. So, they’re trying for the least amount of people, rather than the most. So–typical gop response.

choicelady : AB – that’s super. Your house must runneth over!

choicelady : Murph – wise NON move.

AlphaBitch : CL: Great! I had Alpha Pup with us for a week, he moves into his dorm tomorrow (he’s paying for everything,now he’s all grown up), and my hard headed Pashtun boy from NE here until today when I drove him to Austin for a night before he goes back to UNLincoln. So many Afghans, so little time…

choicelady : Patsy – I just bought my husband “Zealot” the new book about Jesus. I’ve not read it, and he’s just starting, so I can’t say if it’s good or not, but I will let you know.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB- what a great bumper sticker….I would never dare use it here for fear of having my car fire bombed. …..

choicelady : AB – please send it to ME!!!!!

choicelady : Patsy – if that works, and it floats their boats, go for it.

AlphaBitch : Hey Ad – if I send Murph one of my new bumper stickers (Obama is not a brown skinned anti-war socialist who wants to give health care to everyone. You are thinking of Jesus. – John Fugelsang) will you send it to him if’n I sends it to you?

choicelady : Hey AB – how are tricks? Or are you too tired to say? We will excuse all the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz s.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB – hello der….hero, me…nah, just John Q Citizen sticking it to the Cons.

PatsyT : Maybe they just need to call Obamacare what ever appeals to them.. Proud Gun Owners Care White Pride Care… Climate Deniers Health Plan.

Sabreen60 : Hey AB. Hope you can stick around.

choicelady : glenn – USA Today had an article a week ago about how Idaho pulled a fast one on Obamacare by setting up their own state exchange. Uhhhhh…. yeah. So radical that.

MurphTheSurf3 : CHoice-+—ah! yes, a badge of honor…got it!

AlphaBitch : Hey all. I’m here for about 5 minutes. If you see a bunch of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zs on the screen, it’s cuz I passed out. Murph, you my hero today.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- great kentucky story…hope they told him…the truth shall set him free.

choicelady : Murph – being called a fucking Prog. It’s a kind of honor in its own, demented way.

glenn : CL–I agree. There will be many more people coming out for Obamacare once it goes into effect. THAT’S what is scaring the r/tps out of their petty, little minds!

choicelady : Patsy – that was SO COOL of Powell! I am glad he stays a Repub. He makes them look SO BAD.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Fame? Not sure I got the question. Help.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…you are from Georgia…how is the voter suppression issue shaping up there….your state managed to do the Voter ID thing in 2006 to 2008 in such a way as to actually grow the number of minority voters….and several efforts to narrow registration options in the last two years got blocked by lawsuits….what is the word now.

choicelady : glenn – LOL on the KY guy!!! Oh I hope they told him. HOPE THEY DID!

PatsyT : I must say I appreciated General Powell comments this week – he called out the baggers

glenn : Also saw today that at the KY state fair, many people were signing up for the new KY health program, which is part of Obamacare. They get tax credits, etc. One man was very enthusiastic about signing up and when he walked away, said, “So glad it’s not Obamacare.” The people at the booth asked each other, “Should we tell him?”

choicelady : AdLib – You know I totally agree, but when I find cases such as the neighbors of my friends, it gives me a twinkle of cheer. And hope.

choicelady : Murph – it’s a kind of fame, right?

AdLib : CL – That’s what I was inferring, how people like that can call themselves Christians is kind of bewildering since they attack just about every principle Christ believed in and preached. But ignorance is their trademark (and copyright!).

choicelady : AdLib – don[‘t count out Murph[‘s influence. He’s changed hearts and minds. Probably NOT this guy – but you never know.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Yes. I am sure in the echo chamber of his little group his “FU prog” became a bonding cheer.

choicelady : glenn – and that IS how history is made. My own husband was from a conservative GOP family. Turned 180 degrees when he discovered the draft for Vietnam. MANY young men did. I don’t like that – but it is reality. One has to have skin in the game sometimes before one sees the larger picture.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks…and may your experience be exemplary.

Sabreen60 : glenn, I’m probably wrong, but I think these crazies say stuff like PBO is responsible for Katrina just to be complete Aholes. I just believe they know better, but want to blame everything on PBO whether it makes sense or not. They give the pollsters stupid answers knowing that they are giving stupid answers, but want to attribute everything bad to PBO.

AdLib : Murph – I’d bet he dug in deeper into his denial over the reality you presented, “Damn Progressives and their “facts” crap! We want him impeached, we’ll impeach him!” Such types are impervious to reality, they create their own and will tie themselves into twisted knots trying to protect their delusions.

glenn : Ad–Here in GA there is a young man who was involved in several republican campaigns, but had to leave because he got sick. Now he realizes how important Obamacare will be to him, and is speaking out against his former employers, saying how he has no respect left for them because they don’t support health care. Love it!

choicelady : Murph – you already did your bit with the march after the GZ verdict. Glad you’ll be local – it matters. Keep your farm safe. That matters.

choicelady : Murph – I hope it is a signal to leave you the hell alone. You have done so much good for so many, may they be moved to consider that MAYBE you have a point?

MurphTheSurf3 : CHOICE…gloryos ky….. I was wondering if any of US were going to the event. I am going to be taking part in a local commemorative ceremony. Dare not leave the farm right now.

choicelady : AdLib – REAL Christians, even conservative ones, can be fantastic. I have friends – one of the first Lesbian couples to legally marry in 2008 – who had such support from their Evangelical neighbors. It was very wonderful.

PatsyT : Hey Sabreen!

glenn : Hi Sabreen!

glenn : CL–Good on ya!

AdLib : Evening Sabreen!

choicelady : Murph – that IS what it’s all about, isn’t it? The WHITE House. That is why on Tuesday I am heading to DC with my organization’s banner and my white face to march in the REAL 50th anniversary parade. I must.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I wonder if he reported back to his crowd. If he told what door he knocked on they will know that that screwing with this fucking prog is a bad idea.

AdLib : Not trying to be harsh but so many of these self-avowed Christian Baggers show no love for their neighbors unless they are mirrors of themselves…the n suddenly, once they are connected to someone or a situation similar to those they have shown no empathy towards, they “get” it. Well, better late than never and if it can help educate their friends and neighbors to be more empathetic and reasoning, instead of being puppets of the Kochs and such, it’s a good thing.

choicelady : Sabreen – how did you get indented? And now I know what you’re talking about, and there are nights I would totally agree.

MurphTheSurf3 : Patsy- I suspect he was an ardent Tea Partier looking to his patriotic duty to keep America free by getting that black guy out of the white house. It is, after all, the WHITE House.

glenn : CL–I know–I saw that poll too. I just can’t believe people can be that stupid, but those stupid people keep trying to make a believer out of me!

choicelady : Murph – the fact the bank did not call you means they know better. Self preservation and all that…

Sabreen60 : Hey CL. Patron is Tequila.

choicelady : Murph – MAJOR GOOD! Whoopee!

AdLib : Murph -It’s like the anti-gay Repubs only coming to the opinion that gays should be treated as equals only after they discover someone in their family is gay.

choicelady : glenn – I saw that 29% of GOP members believe that the problems after Hurricane Katrina are due to Obama.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn and choice- being part of a coop makes it pretty easy to put things on the street. The bank called one of our members and asked if we were behind the “rumor”. She said the matter is no rumor and that she was proud to have been part of an effort to pour sunshine on their little gambit. They have not called me.

glenn : Ad–yes, they want what they want, with no regard to the results of the recent election. They act like they won the damn election!

PatsyT : Murph you busted his bubble! Whatever you do don’t burst their happy little bubble.

choicelady : Hi Sabreen! I give – I have been hermetically sealed – who is Patron?

Sabreen60 : Good evening. IMPEACH Patron!

choicelady : Murph – LOL!!!! You ARE my idea of a progressive, but not a FUCKING progressive!!! Pretty damned funny.

AdLib : glenn – Yes, the Repub concept of governing is that Obama is bad because he won’t compromise to do what we want and we won’t compromise because we want what we want.

glenn : Patsy–true dat!

MurphTheSurf3 : IMPEACHMENT….I had a petitioner at my door yesterday looking for signatures on an “Impeach Obama” petition. I asked him for details…no idea…no idea about anything…about how impeachment works, what behavior is impeachable…wh at high crimes and misdemeanors Obama may have committed…I suggested he study up a bit before hitting the streets. He called me a fucking prog and walked away.

PatsyT : Well Glenn, you know they are already blind so no difference for them.

choicelady : glenn – it’s the power of duct tape keeping those eyeballs secured to those skulls.

choicelady : glenn – I second that endorsement of Murph!

glenn : Patsy–I’m surprised their eyes haven’t fallen out already–given that there’s nothing behind them!

choicelady : Oh wow Murph – that’s quite something!

AdLib : The other thing that amuses me about the Baggers is how ignorant the Repub pols come off. They think you can just pass a bill impeaching the President with no grounds? Like naming a post office after Reagan?

glenn : Murph–you are such a blessing to your neighbors. They are so lucky to have you living near them.

PatsyT : Hey I hope they don’t blink, their eyes will dry up and fall out.

choicelady : Patsy – that is indeed why they hate him. Tonight Rachell had a Bagger say why it’s OK for Cruz to be BORN in Canada but not for Obama to NOT have been born in Kenya. She said “I don’t think of Canada as a foreign country.” Oh? REALLY???? Because, after all, it’s mostly WHITE.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- my biggest news is that the family I have been working with to try to save their family farm as medical bills chipped away at their resources….the bank pushing them to give it up as the medical collectors demanded blood. Got some attorneys involved but that did not move things…..WHAT HAS is public pressure on the bank which seems to be in collusion with a land developer. SOMEHOW THE WORD GOT OUT AND THE QUESTION WAS ASKED IF THIS IS HAPPENING TO THEM COULDN’T IT HAPPEN TO YOU. In addition Mercy Medical has taken up the wife’s care and has named a patient advocate to work with the other medical provider…..

glenn : Okay–I have a question for everyone. Why is it that we’ve been hearing for five years now that President Obama needs to compromise and work with r/tps, yet when little ted (clonemccarthy) cruz says, “don’t blink”, he gets cheered? It’s actually a rhetorical question, but I love hearing all of your clever comments.

choicelady : AdLib – remember that movement” Talented, Gifted, and Black? We thought it was cool. The RW saw it as the biggest threat to civilization as they knew it. That’s the Prez.

PatsyT : How dare he be black, ha the nerve!

choicelady : AdLib – you nailed PBO’s greatest sins.

AdLib : So true, CL!

AdLib : What I find amusing though is the Repub concept that impeachment is the same as a recall, that they think a President can be impeached just because you’re a racist and he’s black. Guess that is a high crime to them.

choicelady : AdLib – Coburn is not and never was in danger of being an adult.

PatsyT : Hey Murph!

choicelady : Patsy – I’m so glad it’s a joke! But you’d be in GREAT company with PBO!

AdLib : Coburn isn’t running for re-election, he’s actually in a position to act like an adult and criticize the lunacy but instead says, “Hey, don’t look at me, I’m for impeachment of the Kenyan Muslim Socialist too! And I’m his friend!”

glenn : Hey Murph. Any new meetings this week? You always seem to go to such interesting ones.

choicelady : Patsy – the new downloads take FOREVER, and it’s maddening. It may be GO computer – GO AWAY1

PatsyT : Its a bad joke CL.

glenn : CL–Thanks. Volunteering gives me somewhere to go. Just kidding–I love it.

PatsyT : Hey CL ! Go Computer Go!

choicelady : Patsy – why are your friends trying to impeach you???

AdLib : Hey Murph!

AdLib : CL! New computer, no wonder your comments are flying in so fast! Congrats!

choicelady : Hi Murph!

choicelady : Hey right back, AdLib!

choicelady : AdLib – can you legally keep an ass in a Foggy Bottom apartment? Sounds difficult.

MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings all…..

PatsyT : Well in Coburns defense, some of my best friends are trying to impeachment me too. Soo maybe its a trend.

AdLib : Hey CL!

AdLib : glenn – The old cliche that someone coined again on MSNBC today was, if you live in DC and want a friend, get a dog. As opposed to Repubs which I believe are asses.

choicelady : I was reading about your volunteering, glenn. That’s super!

glenn : Hi CL–lovely to see you as well.

glenn : Patsy–I couldn’t much volunteering at my daughter’s school when she was growing up, cause I was working, so I get to do it now at my granddaughter’s school. I love it.

choicelady : Hey AdLib, Patsy, glenn – lovely to see you!

choicelady : Hi everyone – I’m FINALLY here. New computer, doesn’t work well. Grrr. Only YOU cheer me up!

PatsyT : Lets call that train what it is, The Insane Train!

glenn : Ad–you know the old saying–with “friends” like Coburn, who needs enemies?

PatsyT : Hey Glen, thats great that you are volunteering, I did a lot of that in my daughters school, it was worth every minute.

AdLib : Patsy – Have you seen anything more pathetic than Tom Coburn saying he is Obama’s friend then jumping on the Impeachment train. The GOP has definitely jumped the shark. They are clueless to how the majority of Americans view them and their pandering to the Baggers.

glenn : Ad–I love volunteering! It’s true teaching without all the hassle!

AdLib : glenn – Well that sounds very cool and props to you for your volunteering and helping the school earn that honor!

glenn : Patsy–I think the fringe is the only thing they have left. Read a couple of articles last week that say seniors are finally fed up with the republicans/tpar tiers. Not to mention the other r/tps who are finally calling out the crazies.

PatsyT : Awww Geezz can they get anymore into the fringe with that impeachment plot.

glenn : Ad–the school was named only one of four in the entire state that was deemed “family friendly”. Since I am one of the volunteers in the school’s “remedial, accelerated, and maintain” program, the superintendent presented the school with an award. After the presentation, he came to the RAM room (it’s actually called “Camp Learn-A-Lotta”) to take pictures with the three volunteers that were there.

AdLib : That’s the specialty drink tonight at The Vox.

AdLib : Well, anyone for Impeachment schnapps?

PatsyT : Congratulations to the neighborhood, what a joy.

AdLib : Hey glenn! What lovely news! Wow, what was the honor?

PatsyT : Hi Glenn

glenn : Hi Patsy!

glenn : Good evening, Ad. It’s a happy night at the little “village” in my daughter’s neighborhood. A new baby boy was born this afternoon. I’m the “neighborhood grandma”. And, in a completely different subject, I met and had my picture taken with the state school superintendent at my granddaughter’s school. Quite a day!

AdLib : Very warm this way!

PatsyT : Hey AdLib, its cool here near the beach. It is hot up by you?

AdLib : Hey Patsy! How are you this fine (warm) evening?

PatsyT : Hey There!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!