Vox Populi – 12-2-2011

AdLib : If only I had your legs!

KQuark : Ah AdLib if I only had your eternal optimism mon ami.

AdLib : 2013 is when the ACA really kicks in with state exchanges. Then, Obama will look like FDR.

KQuark : Yup that’s what I think too.

AdLib : KQ – In the long run, I think Obama would have suffered more from taking Rahms advice.

KQuark : Good night AdLib and Sally.

KQuark : The sad part is it kinda proved that playing cynical politics wins in this country. Obama could have listened to Rahm allot more and gotten allot less done and perhaps done better at the polls. But like Obama I’m the long term strategist type and think if you do what you think is best for the people it will eventually pay off.

AdLib : Looks like it’s about that time to call it a night, here at the Vox Populi Bar and Grill. Have a great weekend KQ and Sally! Thanks to all for making it another great edition! See you next week!

AdLib : Night Chris! Take care!

AdLib : KQ – I truly couldn’t believe that less than 2 years after the Repubs and Bush blew up our economy and got us into a massive unnecessary war…people were open to putting them back into power! It did confirm that Americans are emotional voters with very short term memories.

KQuark : Take care Chris.

KQuark : There is a point when OWS is going to have to make a choice at least every individual in OWS will have to make their individual choice.

ChrisR266 : Well, must sign off, folks. Good to read and converse with you tonight. May the force be with you all.

KQuark : Oh I agree with that 100% AdLib that’s my point and add short memories.

SallyT : The OWS is not too fond of either party but they know that between the two the Dems come closest to their way of thinking. But, they will expect the Dems to perform if they get them there.

ChrisR266 : Exactly, KQ. Kind of like the perfect storm. I found myself thinking metaphorically of Stephen King’s The Stand the other day. This situation seems similar to me.

KQuark : Yeah but you would of thunk eight years of Bush was lesson enough that’s all I’m saying. We are on our third marriage using that analogy now.

AdLib : KQ – In general, Americans vote with their emotions, not their brains. In 2010, they were upset that Obama hadn’t waved a magic wand and fixed decades of destruction to our economy in a year and a half. This year, they seem pissed off that Congress won’t help them and that the wealthy are getting everything while they keep losing. The anger now is not at Dems but at Repubs and the wealthy. So, for right now, the wind seems to be at our back and people’s concerns seem to be more realistic for a change.

ChrisR266 : Exactly, K

KQuark : I know what you mean Chris. I’m also aware that the GOP does not have something to use like the debt ceiling to black mail Dems either. It’s really a convergence of events.

SallyT : Yah, KQ, I was stupid the first time I married but that didn’t mean I was going to be the next time. People do wise up but sometimes it takes a cold bucket of water to the face.

ChrisR266 : KQ: Well, You have a point. But we could argue for a few hours about Dems showing more “backbone.” What OWS is doing is great because it does not and cannot worry about governing. The Democratic Party has always worried about governing, and doing it well (i.e. in the best interest of all our nation’s citizens). That “eff’s” with the notion of backbone, bigtime. Frankly, I’m tired of people whining about Dems not having backbone. I’m a bleeding heart liberal and a proud Democrat because I don’t let my backbone get in the way of doing what must be done to help the most people I can. How’s that?

KQuark : Yeah but Sally people were still stupid enough to have teabaggers take over the House. I know there is buyers remorse now but face it people let it happen.

AdLib : KQ – Agreed, consider that after the 2010 election, the agenda was what the Kochs wanted, only on cutting the deficit. Now, emboldened by OWS, Obama and the Dems are standing tough on taxing the wealthy instead. A huge debt is already owed to OWS for changing the sensibilities in DC from being in a Beltway Bubble to reflecting how real people feel.

SallyT : AdLib, I think that will happen and in fact is happening. People aren’t as stupid as they appeared to be back before the internet. They know that it is just a few banks, corporations, and rich that control the world economy. They are no way as big as the mass of the people world wide.

AdLib : Chris – Yes, I’ve been saying this from the start. OWS doesn’t need to be aligned with Dems politically, they are however naturally aligned with the sensibilities of Dems and 99% of the nation though. And their energizing that awareness helps the Dems.

KQuark : Put it this way OWS has changed the national conversation and put the ball in the Dems court again. Now we’ll see if the Dems hold serve.

ChrisR266 : Sally: Yep. As Long as they stay out front and as vocal as the law and militia will allow, We have a chance.

AdLib : Sally – That is an important point about OWS, it is global. The wealthy have inordinate power all over the world and the people seem to be rising up independently against it. Now just imagine…what if the majority came together around the world?

KQuark : That’s what I’m saying too Chris. But there is a relationship with the Dems being able to show more backbone and OWS bringing up traditionally liberal causes.

SallyT : All over the world the little guy is getting kicked to the curb and social needs elimated while the rich get richer. OWS isn’t just on Wall Street. It is on Main Streets all over the world and people are fed up with it.

KQuark : Absolutely sally.

ChrisR266 : AdLib and KQ: I don’t think OWS has to be on any side at this point–they must, though, keep people’s attention focused on the problem, and by inference the reality that one Political party and ideology is only contributing to the problem. The GOP/TEA look like a bunch of boozy clowns when the persist in pursuing policies like they did this week. It is a travesty of errors of the highest order. I don’t know how the hell they recover from this.

SallyT : Another thing is the world economy and the rich is seen all over as the source to the evil. The banks have destroyed countries. So, there is an awakening all over, not just here.

KQuark : And OWS did a great job of forcing Dems to stick to their own principles as well. It really has become synergy as detached as they are.

AdLib : Chris – It’s so cartoonishly exaggerated now, the Repub position on destroying SS and Medicare, taxing the poor, slashing food programs for children while campaigning for bigger tax cuts for the wealthy…it seems so absurd to me that anyone except the that 25% of voters who are lockstep Repubs and the top 1% could support the GOP anymore.

KQuark : I’m not underestimating it at all AdLib. I’m just saying when they were on the sidelines there was no vehicle to show they were de facto on the same side as Dem policies whether they say they are with Dems or not.

ChrisR266 : AdLib: I wholly agree. Thank the force for OWS. It has helped people understand exactly WHAT was wrong. It gave it voice and phrased it in a way that people understand.

SallyT : Just because they might be disappointed in Obama on somethings, they will still be there to vote for him and all the other Dems we need in the house and senate. They know that dems there will push Obama more in the directions they want. They will vote for him.