AdLib : Looks like it’s time to wrap tonight’s edition of Vox Populi. Thanks to all our members and readers for making it another great chat. Have a wonderful weekend, see ya next Friday!
AdLib : Night Sabreen, have a great weekend!
Sabreen60 : I’m saying good night also. Everyone take care.
AdLib : A job well done, Choicelady! Sleep well!
choicelady : AdLib – you got it. And that is the spirit we need to have. It’s no longer OK to figure “just so I got mine”. We have to feed one another. And with that I am going to bed!!! “Night everyone – and please say Hi to Cleveland for me. I may get back there soon. I will let you know.
Sabreen60 : CL, I agree with AdLib – they have to feed each other.
AdLib : CL – They feed each other?
AdLib : Night Chris, thanks for all the insights! I am now very much looking forward to visiting Cleveland and sampling the wonderful hospitality!
Sabreen60 : Good night Patsy and Chris
Sabreen60 : AdLib, I agree. I think I was naive prior to the internet. I really didn’t realize that the divide was so great between Americans.
choicelady : OK here’s my ideal way of going about organizing. There is a parable we tell in social justice groups. There are hungry people sitting around a table. A large pot of food is in the middle. Everyone has a spoon EXCEPT some evil person has put three-foot boards on each arm of each person so that in NO way can the individual put the spoon in his or her mouth. What can they do to get food? (If you KNOW this story, don’t tell!)
ChrisR266 : Well, I mist also say goodnight. Patsy, have a great weekend. To everyone, golden slumbers. Enjoy wonderful days and a few lazy nights. It’s been pleasurable and real, as always.
AdLib : Night Patsy, have a wonderful weekend!
AdLib : CL – Well, as we started The Planet to have a site about Real People and Real Opinions, you can be confident that folks here don’t put celebrities on a pedestal. I like that Moore makes his films and is out there but I was told by someone who knew Moore, a long time ago, that he was an egotistical monster. He’s our egotist but he is one. However, his appearance there only increased the visibility of the protest so despite his trying to steal a bit of spotlight, he actually left more of it on the protest.
choicelady : Patsy – love to you, too, and sweet dreams!
ChrisR266 : AdLib: You said what you said to Sabreen very well. The greatness of the nation has always resided in its ability to handle diversity. We must find a way to value and retain that.
Sabreen60 : Moore found in necessary to get his dig into Pres. Obama for hiring Geithner & Summers.
choicelady : Chris – yes, that makes great sense!
PatsyT : Hey Guys I have to sign off… Love to you all … have a great weekend!
choicelady : AdLib – if it’s the battered wife syndrome, it’s the woman who has met a new guy, a GOOD guy, but can’t trust him yet. He will have to keep on keepin’ on so she can see he’s not her ex. Will take a lot of patience. And the snots who do NOT care can ruin it all if we don’t keep close watch!
AdLib : Sabreen – I would agree that elitists poison the water, in both parties. It is a two way street though, I have read posts from people who are obsessed with attacking those on the coasts as being awful. Both sides need to put away the provincialism and be Americans together. Like the old cartoon shows, we have to recognize that we each bring something different to the table and though we may consider what we bring as more important, without all of it, we have nothing.
choicelady : AdLib – I do think the Wall Street actions are important. I think I got more peeved at Moore who had nothing to do with it but claimed the limelight anyway. I am sorry he’s turned into a prat. I used to love him – once even corresponded with him back and forth, in the early 90s, but he’s too good for the likes of me now. Bah. Humbug! But the movement? Yup – it is everywhere. That’s why I wanted people to know about the anti-foreclosure movements in Boston and LA. There is a LOT going on – better than what happened after Kent State even! We need to keep on top of it all and let people KNOW. And we need for it to stay authentic and NOT get coopted and over organized by “stars” who think they know what the messages are, what the answers are, when they don’t even know what the questions are.
ChrisR266 : Choice: So, I guess what I’m suggesting, is that pummeling people will ills and offenses, horrors and the threats of socialism or fascism, won’t get anyone anywhere but on the precipice of chaos. I think we have an opportunity to dig ourselves out of this morass, but we need to sell what Democracy offers, not what ideology run amok threatens. Does that make sense?
AdLib : CL – It’s the battered wife syndrome, IMO. Yes, they may have been dominated in the past but we’re not that government. We have to be able to join together and work closer with each other or the rest of the global economy and corporations will slice us all up. That’s the message that needs to get through, we’re all Americans together and we need to band together now to rescue our nation.
Sabreen60 : “turned OFF”
Sabreen60 : I read some comments by folks on another blog and maybe they have point. They seem to believe that environmentalist and some progressives turned of people in middle America with their “high and mighty” attitudes. They were of the opinion that many people who farm, hunt and love the land would stand with the environmentalist if they didn’t feel as though they are being looked down on. So, if true, maybe we liberals need to stop thinking we’re superior because of degrees, etc. and let folks know we have a lot in common.
AdLib : CL – Excellent! Very nicely expressed. I would add that just coming together can be enough at this point, just connecting on the basic issues that matter to all of us. This is the thing that I saw in the Occupy Wall Street protest that I think some folks may have missed. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t have a specific demand, they are bringing people together over a general sentiment that we share. Really, it may be the only way to bring the majority together, keeping the details aside and the sentiment in focus. The sentiment being, “We’re all going through tough times, we’re all in this together and we have to come together to fight back the wealthy and powerful who are oppressing us.” That’s enough for now, the specifics can come later, once we’re together.
choicelady : Chris – I absolutely agree about folks in Cleveland and elsewhere in the Midwest. Just friendly people. I love them and miss them a lot.
choicelady : Rats – hit the worng key. Ranchers and environmentalist s joined forces when oil and gas interests were given carte blance by Bush to tear up range land and destroy what is both habitat and range. These sorts of alliances need to be nurtured. We often have more in common than we realize.
ChrisR266 : I should probably get going, but I do have one last thought: What always impresses me about Cleveland is the absolute, raw, and the unabashed pleasantness and charm of the people I meet. It is a Midwest thing, people tell me, but they want to be friendly. Friendliness begets friendliness, kindness begets kindness. And, I never get a sense that the innate connection I feel is based on fatalism or cynicism. People are by nature good. They wish good for others. They by nature understand that we are social and we should by default get along. Cleveland has been slapped around like a rag doll, been ravaged by all kinds of economic and social ills, but these people are still at it, plugging away, and sharing whatever light they see with others. That’s gold. That’s what we have to find a way to tap.
choicelady : AdLib – middle America, the midwest and great plains, just want to be left alone. They fear over control by government because it HAS happened. But I read that ranchers in Montana (remember the Montana Freemen – extremist anti-gov’t paramilitia groups?) joined forces WITH ENVIRONMENTALIST S
PatsyT : Choice Right on ! That is a home run!
AdLib : The opposite seems unthinkable to me. Why would folks in Middle America vote to give more power to the people who want to cut all of their services, destroy their safety nets and hand more of their money to the wealthy? Who the hell cares about the deficit when you can’t pay your bills?
choicelady : Everyone – I make a prediction: those of us who respect the others of us will make a difference. We will greet those whom we don’t know and might not understand with warmth and curiosity. Our first words to new communities Those whowon’t be “here’s what you should do” but “Hi. How can we help?” THAT will make the difference. Those who have run things and always have all the answers? Old news, on the way out. Those of us who LIKE other people? We’re going to prevail along with them. New bonds, new allies, new friendships, new actions. All based on our common humanity, period.
PatsyT : AdLib ain’t it the truth!
PatsyT : Oh Boy AdLib I hope that is how it will play out… It seems like lots of things are lining up
AdLib : Patsy – It is a lot of work though, for any couple to make it all the way!
choicelady : Chris – my folks are Omaha born and raised. But my grandmother was the first woman in NE to drive alone into the western part of the state. She was a social worker during the Depression, and she had clients all the way out in the Sand Hills – and went to see them. She taught me respect for all those people who grew our food. I still love them, even when I could shake them for the ways they VOTE! I agree AdLib – the indifference hurt them. But it can be made whole. They need help but need independence, too. Those are traditional people with GREAT hearts. Read Bob Greene’s “Once Upon a Town” about the people of North Platte where troop trains all had to stop to refuel during WW II. They operated a 24-hour-a-day canteen for troops even with RATIONING. They pitched in food and used their coupons for the soliders. It was amazing. Those people still exist. Helping one another is natural to them. We can build on that.
AdLib : This year should be prime for a reconciliation between Dems and Middle America. Take the anti-union and anti-vote legislation in a number of states, add in the economic oppression and giveaways to the wealthy and the Dems fighting for the middle class and taxing the wealthy, it should make for a great atmosphere for coming together!
PatsyT : AdLib It can happen
ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree with you. Dems need to understand that and get off their asses. Choice and Patsy: Cleveland is pretty damned cool. We were up at the Browns game two weeks ago. We love going the night before. Even this beat up city has a vibrant downtown, people full of good will and midwestern common sense. They’re still in there, slugging away every day.
AdLib : Patsy – That’s very sweet! They must’ve been wonderful.
PatsyT : Choice The Cleveland Clinic is a big boost to the area. You can live in a gorgeous mansion in Shaker Hts or Cleveland Heights for what a tiny condo costs here in So Cal.
PatsyT : Thats cool Chris, my folks stayed together till the end.
choicelady : Patsy – Indeed! I LOVE Cleveland! Love The Flats, love the EAST SIDE even – there’s energy there. Love the river and bridges and steel mills. Love it all. One of the best public libraries in America, too. VERY fond of John Q’s if you know it. Great city still struggling to survive.
ChrisR266 : Choice: My Mom is Nebraska born (battle creek), never saw a black person until she moved to Ohio when she was 18. Dad and her made (and still make) a formidable couple. She never grew up with a reason to be prejudiced, he could never stand what prejudice he saw around him. We were lucky kids.
AdLib : CL – Good points and insightful description. I would suggest though that it is not as much disdain for the Middle America folks that Dems had as much as an indifference. They didn’t see how they fit into the new era for America so they neglected them. I do think there’s a difference between intentionally turning on people and just being so self-centered that one doesn’t think about them. Because I think it is more the latter, I think it may be easier for Dems to do an about face without feeling humiliated.
PatsyT : Cleveland Rocks !
ChrisR266 : Choice: Amen, darlin, amen.
choicelady : Chris – I’m from “fly over nation” – born in Nebraska raised in Illinois. Family roots were in farming though not by my parents’ generation. I love those folks – salt of the earth. Love the blue collar steelworkers in Cleveland and Pittsburgh and Buffalo, too. All of them ignored by policy and the people who made it. Time for a change because THEY are the people who made WI, OH, MI, etc. happen, NOT the coastal liberals. When I told a group of coastal liberals they were BEHIND the curve – they about plotzed! Egos couldn’t take it. I’m no longer invited to the parties… LOL!!!
ChrisR266 : choice: for so long, the nation operated like white people outside Appalachia didn’t need any help. By the turn of the century, they became invisible to everyone.
AdLib : CL – You’ve won me over on that. The Dems really do have “fields to plow” with rural farmers and towns. The South is tough, shouldn’t give up but the heartland would seem to have greater possibilities.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Exactly. You get it.
choicelady : AdLib – in the Great Society programs that made things so much better for people, we really did leave out rural folks. We did a good deal in the heart of Appalachia, the really impoverished areas, but not much for the general populations in small towns. We had a disdain for them – they were at the time fairly secure economically and almost entirely white. So they were ignored. But deindustrializat ion hit those regions hard – and we had nothing to offer since the Dems bought into the “yesterday’s industry” ideas along with the GOP. We were going to build this bright shiny world of high tech yuppies – and these poorly educated white people just had to adjust or get out. We reap the outcome of our own ignorance and disdain.
AdLib : Chris – I think you’ve nailed it. Ideology has become more important to so many who are in bad shape that further adversity only makes them clutch onto it harder. Putting aside the Baggers in the House and just discussing voters, I do think that it is like a religion to them, hating government and liberalism is a strength for them and though it means voting for people who will take away their UI money, their food stamps, their teachers and police and firemen and their jobs, it’s irrelevant to having the emotional comfort of “knowing” what’s right and wrong and who’s good and who’s evil.
ChrisR266 : Choice: I knew there was a reason I love you so. You articulate what I’m trying to say so much better. And, What most people don’t understand is that between the coasts there is a world–that is our nation–which most folks just don’t have in their ken. This nation is suffers from its diversity in demographics along many more lines than race and ethnicity.
PatsyT : Choice, You are right on about the smal towns… Hey Repubs want to take their post offices away.
PatsyT : Ahh Choice I love – It’s a Wonderful Life – I have great memories of the first time I saw that film.
choicelady : PAtsy – you are correct I think. There is a residual belief, erroneous, that America is the Bailey Savings and Loan when it really is the Potter megabank. (Sorry – if you have not seen “It’s a Wonderful Life” this will make NO sense. I consider that a radical economic statement in McCarthy America BTW…) We hang onto Grandma Moses as our image when that way of life is very rare. The small towns of the Midwest are really embattled by WalMart etc. but it’s hard for people to identify with a party that champions people of color, urban chic, and radical rights for people they don’t trust. We have yet to develop a farm voice outside of the Farmer Labor Party of Minnesota. We need to look there – remember the farmers drove tractors into Madison in support of public employees! THAT is a bond and a change we need to spread nationwide! I need to get to more churches in Bakersfield and Dinuba. Dems need to get a grip on small town needs and values.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: I’ve been thinking about this too. I have come to the conclusion that the GOPTEA doesn’t really understand the real implications of the policies and cuts they advocate. They think only in terms of ideological stances now, and do little to no thinking or real research about what implications their policy proposals have on everyday people. In fact, they don’t think about average folks, because the ideology usurps those considerations. They have become consumed by the position ideology places them in, and find it impossible to discuss its implications in praxis. It is eerie and sad, because it has left most of them without a soul.
AdLib : CL – Very interesting. Well, the Baggers won’t support helping small farmers, only keeping subsidies for megafarms. So that can’t happen before 2012. There really does need to be a redistribution of wealth…or should I say a re-redistributio n since it has been going on for decades into the pockets of the wealthiest. I don’t think Dems should shy away from that concept but they will, fearful of being called names like “socialist”! Guess some people would rather be poor capitalists than comfortable socialists.
AdLib : “Snip-snip here and snip-snip there and a couple of tax cuts too!”
choicelady : AdLib – Thomas Franks’ “What’s the Matter with Kansas” is about the rural support. The Dems for years did nothing for small family farmers and their townspeople including food processors. So they turned to the GOP for values voting. Unless and until we challenge corporate farming and restore family farms with DEM actions and respect, this will continue. Can’t have economic help? We will accept your pandering platitudes about faith and values. It really IS that simple. BTW – one thing that is vulnerable in the Supercommittee cuts? Farm subsidies that go almost entirely to mega farms. Hah! Might be a great door opening for the little farms again.
AdLib : CL – I know about those folks but they represent no more than 5% of the population. I’m talking about the majority of Repub voters who make the average of $22k per year and depend on their post office and police and public schools. How can they vote Republican?
PatsyT : Cut that budget, Cut it down, let the air be thick and brown Cut that Budget Make it Small rob poor Peter to Pay rich Paul
choicelady : AdLib – think about who they are. They are insulated,isolat ed, pampered, protected. They DO live in safe and pretty neighborhoods with security and amenities. They want to pay NO taxes so that they can have a second, third, fifth, seventh house (with mortgage deductions) or be able to remodel yearly to keep up with styles, but they want the rest of us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps while they cut off our feet. They believe they made it, so everyone should. If you examine their practices, they are unscrupulous, but since many are born again Dominionists, they think they’re entitled. And a great many inherited their wealth. Robert Coles, the fantastic psychologist of children living under many conditions wrote “Children of Privilege” a MUST READ for understanding who these people are, secular or religious. The sense of entitlement and disdain for all of us.
AdLib : So what is the message the GOP has to run on in 2012 except magical thinking? “We just need to give more money to the wealthy and let corporations be free to pollute and destroy our economy, then they’ll be happy to give you jobs that they can fill for $5 a day in China!”
PatsyT : Cut that budget
AdLib : Patsy – Exactly!
AdLib : Chris – I live in LA and our city is being devastated by cuts to schools, police and fire, you name it! I have several post offices nearby but I can imagine what it would be like to be in a small town and have your airport and post office and more closed by Repubs. Devastating and yet it is more rural support for Repubs than cities.
PatsyT : Moses Moses Let my pollution go
ChrisR266 : smoke break, be right back.
AdLib : Patsy – And don’t forget to let our pollution go!
ChrisR266 : Choice: Agreed. That’s who they are.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Those of us who don’t live in the rural and small communities forget how vital those services are. You cut an area off, and it becomes one you don’t have to act like it exists any more. This is really cruel and oppressive, what they’re advocating.
PatsyT : Ecoli and Salmonella want their freedom too!
AdLib : CL – But these assholes want to kill and cut EVERYTHING! They have only devastation to offer, what is appealing about that? I really don’t understand.
ChrisR266 : Take care kes. Until next week.
choicelady : kes – sorry about the computer problems! We will miss you!
choicelady : AdLib – I think you’d need a demographic breakdown to see who really supports the GOP. I will be it’s mostly suburban people with SUVs who don’t live in communities but in developments, mostly with gates. That’s a LOT of people, and they have no small town values OR big city awareness. They WANT all that gone – it’s for rubes or liberals, not for them.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes Hope your weekend is wonderful.
AdLib : Sorry about that Kes! Have a great weekend!
kesmarn : So sorry, folks, even after clearing my cache and rebooting, I’m having major computer problems here. Will have to say goodnight and have a wonderful weekend!
AdLib : Chris – Funny, I heard a small business owner saying similar things about how closing up all these post offices, as is being proposed, will kill business for her as she’s near a post office and gets a lot of walk in business. These Repubs seem intent on destroying the country! And yet indies and Repub regulars think they’re worth voting for. I truly don’t get it!
choicelady : kes – it’s a really good idea. It’s best when you get to pick what you wan – I am not one to welcome a huge box of beets which I hate. But usually there is enough diversity to at least trade with neighbors. Funny – some people LIKE beets…
kesmarn : This year is the first I’ve heard of it here, AdLib. I like the idea.
choicelady : kes – we have that here in Sacto with Capay Valley Farms. But you don’t have to pay first – you CAN order what you want (that is in season) by the box. They are trying to make it possible for people to do this on an as-needed basis. Seems to work.
ChrisR266 : Kes: It’s all the rage down here in Central Ohio. My sister in law is a member of one, gets her very large box of fresh stuff every week for 20 weeks.
AdLib : Kes – That sounds like a wonderful model! Wish they had something like that here!
choicelady : AdLib – that is a rumor I heard that people in the community banking movement threatened to stomp her for pretending SHE invented this idea! May not be accurate, but I’d not be surprised.
ChrisR266 : It’s funny, my dad used to tell me why local was so important–at least 30 years ago, people in small and medium sized towns would come to the CU to get money, and then would spend their Saturdays traveling around town paying their bills. They needed to know exactly where their money was, that they could get it when they needed it, and that businesses knew they were good for it.
kesmarn : Local news here just did a story on six local “Community Farms.” They sell memberships — about $500/yr, and each week for 18-20 weeks you get a good sized box of organic produce. Totally eliminated the middle-men between farmers and consumers.
AdLib : CL – Thanks, I didn’t know that it was due to lawsuits for her theft of intellectual property…never would have guessed Arianna for doing that! I do think that as wages go down and megabanks charge more, it’s just a simple decision when an extra $20 each month would help (assuming a $15/mo fee and $5/mo ATM usage fee).
choicelady : AdLib – that’s why moves such as the United Steel Workers bond with Mondragon, the Spanish worker cooperative is so critical. There is a lot of interesting international work going on across borders with labor. Just starting, but catching on. Community banks – decentralized. National curency – decentralized. Labor – cooperative. Might be a whole new ballgame in a few years!
ChrisR266 : Patsy: I never even had a bank account until I was almost 40, and we moved to an area that made it difficult for me to access my credit union accounts.
PatsyT : Nice to hear that Chris
AdLib : CL – It really isn’t that hard to support union businesses and community businesses, we do too all the time. I do wish there was a way to revitalize union membership and get it built up again…but that’s such an uphill battle today with an exploitative global marketplace for labor.
choicelady : ADLib – I was just thinking of that. She dropped that when a few people in the community banking groups pointed out to her it was THEIR idea and movement and threatened to sue her because she was doling out very bad advice without good guidance. (Typically she’d ripped off other people.) But the movement is a long-time one. It needs care – some community banks suck. But overall you’re in better hands. Decentralization is starting to catch on – European nations are realizing those who warned of an “ashes, ashes, we all fall DOWN” problem with the Euro were right. The return to national currency is no longer impossible.
ChrisR266 : I bank at a regional that hasn’t started the fee charge orgasm. My dad was the president of a credit union for 30 years, so unlike everyone else my age, I was never indoctrinated to “banking.”
kesmarn : c’lady, in case Adonai is already asleep: he dropped a chainsaw on his foot today. Didn’t clarify whether it was running at the moment or not…
ChrisR266 : Choice: I try to do the same. Have been in 100% avoidance of the biggest chain for the last 6 months, even though their grocery is 1/2 mile from my house. Only broke once, but didn’t feel bad–needed some damned toilet paper!
AdLib : CL – As much as it’s frustrating getting there, when the Repubs and now the banks overplay their hands, it is kind of satisfying. I think people may see this all as part of a push back against corporate power. Remember the bogus “Move Your Money” campaign at HP that was abandoned without notice when it didn’t become anything? This might do it!
choicelady : Adonai – what happened to your foot?
choicelady : ‘Night Adonai!
choicelady : AdLib – I bank at credit unions, our organization is with a community bank, I fly Southwest (mostly – sometimes not), and shop union supermarkets OR mom&pop OR worker owned. It’s NOT hard, and I get much better value across the boards.
ADONAI : Lord knows I will try!
Sabreen60 : Good-nite Adonai.
ChrisR266 : Ad: don’t cut any more limbs off, either.
PatsyT : Nighty Night ADONAI
AdLib : Night AD, take care of that foot (cold compress and plenty of Ibuprofen). Take care!
ChrisR266 : Good evening, Adonai. Sleep well and enjoy the weekend.
choicelady : AdLib – yes, it takes the “in the pocketbook” acts of the corporate monoliths to spur people. This appears to be it.
AdLib : With the banks and now the airlines, people are taking for granted that they will be ripped off and treated poorly (baggage fees, seating fees, meal fees, etc).
ADONAI : Well kids, it’s my bedtime. Enjoyed the conversations today. Love my country with all my heart. I just question our judgement sometimes. Good night folks. Peace be with you.
AdLib : CL – The thing is, people don’t act just because they see the monster devouring everything but they will when the monster starts clawing at their wallet. I really hope this spurs a big push away from megabanks to community banks or at least banks that don’t gouge their customers and treat them respectfully.
ADONAI : jinx
ADONAI : great article Sabreen. thanks for that
AdLib : Sabreen, thanks for the article, very nice one from our friends at The People’s View!
choicelady : AdLib – that’s what I mean. There are too many alternatives these days for B of A to win this one. But when Citi and Chase and B of A can boot the LARGEST banking group – Golden1 Credit Union – out of the airport, then the people must RISE UP because that was a political decision that costs us money.
Sabreen60 : Oops. I forgot the link «link»
AdLib : CL – There are banks out there, I’m at one, that has totally free checking AND refunds all fees charged at ATMS so you never have to pay.
ADONAI : Indeed Al. And I agree with choice that many people are turning to credit unions and other alternatives. It’s a good sign.
Sabreen60 : Here’s some info about BoA and other large banks.
choicelady : I heard a number of people interviwed on NPR about it – they all said they were moving on without B of A.
ChrisR266 : She can be candid because she has lived it. And, she is talking to young men and women who think they want to live it too. She was totally up front with them about what it is like and what it takes.
AdLib : AD – It seems like BofA just gave many other banks a huge sales tool, just hope people will decide to save that $60 for themselves from this pig of a bank.
choicelady : AdLib – I think a lot of people will move away from B of A. I have already so can’t leave them (again). I do think there is serious movement to credit unions, community banks etc. The predominant issue though is ATM access – if you have to pay $2 for out of area service, people balk at that. The big demand, IMHO, is for ATMs that are less costly and offer more “in network” choices. They took our credit union ATM out of the airport – really peeved me! It’s not as if there couldn’t be several of them! MONOPOLY!!!
ChrisR266 : AdLib: You would be totally surprised about both her candor and shrewdness.
ADONAI : Good point Al. Probably a bad question.
AdLib : AD – I doubt someone in her position could afford to be too frank about what a sausage factory news channels are.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Oh, me too. She took a group of eight female students we faculty hand picked to lunch just to talk to them about being female and wanting to be a broadcast journalist.
ADONAI : I think BoA will lose many customers. Competitors are already jumping on this and offering low fees and in many places none at all.
ChrisR266 : Yeah, she is. You can see it up close, it is starting to show around her eyes a bit. But she’s lean and fit, full of energy, extraordinarily articulate, not at all a talking head.
choicelady : Chris – I also think it helps both male and female students to see someone that vibrant at 54. Too many kids think life ends at 30. Or that all of us over 30 are duds. I’m so glad they responded to her!
AdLib : Quickie topic: In light of the Occupy Wall Street protests and banks seeing huge profits…BofA, which is admittedly in trouble with law suits over derivatives, now wants to charge you to use ATM cards to get your money out of the bank to pay people. Will people finally revolt and leave them or are people just too damn lazy to care?
ADONAI : Did you ask her why the industry has sucked the soul out of news and turned it into an overproduced, hollow ratings machine?
ChrisR266 : Favorite? wow. I have to think about that. But most valuable was surely there discussion of how many hours she works a week, what she does to prepare for her job each day, what she’s sacrificed (a hell of a lot). It was just wonderful to see all our students get really inspired to strive to be excellent
PatsyT : Chris, Thats cool! but really 54? Wow I never would have guessed.
choicelady : Chris – that’s a wonderful experience for the students. But she’s 54????? Amazing.
ADONAI : Yeah and she has really perky….. she’s very perky.
choicelady : AdLib – YIKES! Those are SOME eyes! Yup – Michelle’s mentor indeed.
ChrisR266 : I would have never guessed she was 54. But, Another alum who’s a local anchor here had yearbook pictures from 77-79. She is indeed. Good genetic heritage
AdLib : Chris – Sounds very cool! Favorite comment or question answered?
AdLib : That’s our ADONAI!
ADONAI : Can she get Tamron Hall’s phone number?
ChrisR266 : She’s an alum of the university at which I teach, she was here all day with our department talking to our classes and majors about her job and how she got there, etc. It was excellent, to say the least
AdLib : CL – Click this link: «link»
AdLib : Chris – You spent the day with Chris Jansing? DO tell…
choicelady : Oh wow – Applewhite/Bachm ann. Think they’re clones? Sabreen – that is GREAT news about your back!!!!
ADONAI : Where were yo at with Chris Jansing?
Sabreen60 : Nite Sue. Nite Funk.
ChrisR266 : Marshall applewhite had an eye lift gone very bad.
ADONAI : It is a striking resemblance Al
Sabreen60 : I’m good, CL. Started therapy this week for my back. No surgery and no injections – yeah!!!!!
choicelady : “Night Sue – you will have to catch me up on your work. And house and all that stuff. Hope to see you soon.
AdLib : Click the link, Marshall Applewhite, The wild-eyed leader of the Heaven’s Gate cult.
choicelady : Hey Sabreen! How are you?
ADONAI : Nite Sue!
ChrisR266 : Bachmann, heck. She looks ridden hard and put away wet. I spent the day with Chris Jansing today, and at 54, she makes us all look like octogenerians. And I thought I was not looking bad for 54.
ADONAI : Seriously though. She’s crazy.
SueInCa : Good night all. I am not used to working full time, it tires a soul out. Talk to you all over the weekend.
choicelady : AdLib – who IS Bachmann’s mentor? Thought it was DR. Bachmann for whom she is the beard.
Sabreen60 : Hi CL.
ADONAI : HA!
choicelady : Patsy – charts? Is that a euphemism for boobs? I’ve not looked at the SNL thing yet – my computer is too sluggish tonight for it.
AdLib : Bachmann’s mentor: «link»
PatsyT : Bachman has some nice charts!
choicelady : Oooo – Sue I will read my email. Your stuff always makes me laugh!
Sabreen60 : I came back just in time to see the Bachmann look alike and spit water all over my keyboard.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Bwwwaaahahaha! That’s got to be surreal.
ADONAI : My new platform for the Republican nomination is mandatory executions of gay servicemen. Should get plenty of applause.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Funk
kesmarn : Blast, Patsy, my connection is too slow to play that SNL clip here.
choicelady : Hi all – I see I’ve come in on a fave topic: crazy-eyes Bachmann. Freaking WEIRD. This week started with a call from a man trying to get his daughter out of a cult and went downhill from there. All I could think of was MICHELLE and her zombie eyes!
SueInCa : Hey Cl I sent you some “Bad News” tonight LOL. See you on the bus, you will laugh promise
ADONAI : Hello choice!
AdLib : Seeya Funk, have a great weekend!
ADONAI : HA! Oh, that’s terrible but oh so plausible.
PatsyT : SNL M Bachmann «link»
AdLib : Hey Choicelady!
kesmarn : Hey, c’lady!
SueInCa : Funk Later gator
ChrisR266 : Hi Choice!
AdLib : Hey…maybe this explains the whole thing with Bachmann: «link»
choicelady : Goodnight funk, hello everyone else! Sorry I’m so late.
ChrisR266 : Yeah, Sue. It is hysterically funny.
kesmarn : Enjoy the dinner, funk!
ChrisR266 : Have a great weekend, Funk.
ADONAI : Peace funk
SueInCa : Chris Stewart talked about it this week
funksands : Later peeps. Eating late tonight. Have a great weekend.
ADONAI : Pink balloons?! Madame I do have my dignity!
ChrisR266 : Have you all seen the Bachmann crazy eyes site on the web? You can take the crazy eyes and put them on anyone!
ADONAI : are? is? does it matter?
ADONAI : Seriously. She just stands there staring straight ahead til someone calls on her. When a candidate are talking, the others either look at that person or down at their notes. She just stares straight ahead. Fucking creepy.
AdLib : You’ve seen it before, an encore of the Bachmann look alike contest: «link»
PatsyT : ADONAI, Oh that was you. Next time try pink ballons
PatsyT : Oh AdLib, I get it some one is controlling her by remote control
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Good question, that’s the rub: the 10 per family per month is to make up for the fact that they haven’t done anything for the last 3 years. 130 million in fines, and he’s trying to scam it.
ADONAI : HA! Picturing that now Al.
SueInCa : Adlib her head did tturn that way on SNL
funksands : Chris
kesmarn : As in Sunset Boulevard, AdLib?
ADONAI : Sometimes I just ask random people if they’ll accept $5,000 to swallow 4 balloons and fly to Mexico where they’ll meet a man named “Raul”. He’ll take care of the rest.
AdLib : I imagine Bachmann’s head slowly turning sideways whenever she speaks, with creepy music playing in the background, “You want my autograph???”
kesmarn : Patsy, who is the woman who plays Bachmann on SNL? She’s got the Crazy Look down pat.
ChrisR266 : Funk: Can you just see her, bending over by the sink, yipping “these lines just keep dripping off the vanity! Let me pour another line… oh shit!”
PatsyT : Hmmm Kes, I don’t want to get that picture… the Time cover was bad enough
AdLib : Chris – Is it clear in local news reports that K-Sick is being forced to provide what he stole from the poor?
kesmarn : Chris I missed that food stamps story. Could he get to be any more of an ass.
funksands : I always imagine Bachmann scurrying to the bathroom to do a couple lines of coke…”crazy fortifier”.
PatsyT : AdLib the key is to keep a straight face
kesmarn : Patsy, doesn’t Bachmann just look like she has a warthog… well, you get the picture.
AdLib : Patsy – And when you check out, you could act like you’re not feeling very well suddenly. That should clear out the line.
PatsyT : Kes Please explain…
ChrisR266 : Kes: yep. He’s on such an epic fail down here that it may be historic. To top it off, two days ago the Dispatch ran front page his plan to spend 7 million to give families 10 dollars in food stamps so his administration doesn’t have to pay 130 millions in federal fines.
kesmarn : AdLib! The sad thing is, there really IS a warthog in her woo-woo.
ADONAI : “I’ve been informed of an impending attack by the forces of Mordor on the free men of Gondor. I don’t think we can just let allies anywhere in the world have their freedom denied.”
AdLib : Love “K-Sick”!
AdLib : Kes – Bachmann plays “telephone” with 5 year olds then repeats it as “I’ve heard that there’s a warthog in my woo-woo!”
kesmarn : Yes, Chris, Toledo is where K-Sick got the chilly reception. Hahaha!
kesmarn : Bachmann will repeat anything whispered to her in the ladies room during debate intermissions.
ADONAI : All politicians are bullies to some extent. I shy away from crazy.
funksands : IF we could just get John Bolton to run…now THAT would be a debate line-up…
PatsyT : OK if you want to laugh your tail off, try it and have someone follow you around the store and take pics or vids of the onlookers, It is fun to ask someone if these prunes are any good
SueInCa : Adlib he knows the southern dog whistles the GOP so loves
ChrisR266 : Kes: He was in Toledo yesterday, did you read about it?
ChrisR266 : Cain is a psychopath.
ADONAI : I do love Bachmann though. “I’ve just been told by a young gentlemen that he was involved in secret government experiments to produce a race of supermen. All paid for by Obamacare.”
kesmarn : Chris, K-Sick was up here this past week. The union people gave him a nice “reception.” He said the were selfish.
AdLib : Cain swore never to hire Muslims if elected, said no more Mosques should be allowed to be built in America then said Black people are brainwashed to vote Democratic. He’s got pepperoni for brains.
ChrisR266 : Adonai: Aw, come on. Christie is a thug and a bully, he’s just not as old of a thug and bully as Kasich is.
PatsyT : Cain delivers alright, he delivers insanity!
ADONAI : HA! That’s fucking hilarious Patsy. Well done.
AdLib : Funk – It would be just as easy for us to answer questions for each of the Repub candidates as for them to answer.
kesmarn : Mark Shields said tonight that it’s like the spinster’s advice to the 20 year old girl. “Look at Romney! He’s clean, upright, a good provider. You can learn to love him.” And the girl (The GOP voters) says: “No! Give me excitement! Give me Christie! Give me the Herminator!”
ADONAI : I kinda get Christie. He isn’t batshit insane. But Cain? Did he promise 30% off a $20 order?
PatsyT : ADONAI, on a dare I went to the grocery store and filled my cart with Large Packages of Depends, Hemorrhoid meds, Metamucil, Toilet Paper, Constipation treatments, Female Hygiene Products, Midol and Male Enhancement stuff, Ky Jelly, you get the picture.
ChrisR266 : Adonai: Now don’t be comparing Star Wars to that mosh pit of anti intellectualism and invective. [email protected]
AdLib : The GOP voters are crazy, that’s all one can conclude. Romney then Trump then Bachmann then Perry then Cain then Romney. And still some praying for Christie? WHat a mess! Obama will sweep them up.
SueInCa : Chris word salad is the game
ADONAI : I’ve been to a Star Wars Experience. gotta think it’s the same principle at work.
funksands : Ever been to a Rocky Horror experience? That’s what the GOP debates have turned into. A whole group of people shouting the same lines over and over and over
ADONAI : Occupy Wal-Mart
ChrisR266 : Sue: Did you have to bring Plain up? I saw her babbling tonight and wanted to gag.
SueInCa : Funk we had popeyes chicken that is how well I cook
kesmarn : Chris, I’m right on Lake Erie tonight and the wind is howling. Temp is 41 right now. I love it.
ADONAI : Cain is third. Damn. And the GOP establishment really wants him as a candidate?
SueInCa : Palin thinks his name is Herb Cain, the legendary writer for the SF Chronicle
ADONAI : feel? fell?
funksands : Sue, I am making my world-famous (not really) spaghetti. I cook the sauce for 4 hours….mmmmm
ChrisR266 : Hi Kes, is it as brisk up there on the lake as it is down here? The sun went AWOL
ADONAI : I fell a slogan avalanche coming
AdLib : Herman Cain is now a close 3rd place to Perry in latest polling!
funksands : Good primer on Occcupy at the Nation: «link»
kesmarn : Hey, Chris! Sorry for the late greeting but my computer is Occupying Crashland tonight.
ADONAI : Herman Cain? Really?
SueInCa : hey funk you can have my kitchen too. not too much good stuff goes one there
ADONAI : Some of these people should take advantage of Squatter Laws and occupy a few mansions.
AdLib : Just to throw another topic on the burner, how about the GOP supporting Herman Cain and Christie and dissing Romney AGAIN! Is Obama laughing every morning or what?
ChrisR266 : I have done so as well, Funk. Took a nice Bordeaux hostage and am interrogating it now.
funksands : Fabulous. I have decided to OccupyMyKitchen tonight.
ChrisR266 : Well, Hi Funk, hope all is good with you.
ADONAI : HA! he means poop.
funksands : Hi Chris!
ChrisR266 : Evening, Sue
SueInCa : Hey Chris and Patsy, hello.
funksands : I took a giant Kardashian this afternoon. Whoooo!
PatsyT : OK Now we are talking!
AdLib : Funk – At least you don’t have to worry about the Kardashians supporting the protest.
ADONAI : Ever walk into Lowe’s and just buy rope, duct tape, and a shovel?
ChrisR266 : Evening, Patsy, hope you are well.
AdLib : Patsy – The Full Monty Occupation of Wall Street!
funksands : Adonai, Wil Wheaton supports occupywallstreet . I’m off the bandwagon….
ChrisR266 : Hi Adlib
PatsyT : Hey Chris!
PatsyT : AdLib.. Now what can they guys do?
AdLib : Hey Chris!
AdLib : Patsy – Just addressed that, you need to be exploitative to get the MSM to cover a protest they don’t want publicized…goi ng topless helps.
ChrisR266 : Hi Adonai.
ADONAI : Evenin’ chris!
ADONAI : Excellent points Al.
ChrisR266 : Good evening, everyone.
PatsyT : HA Kes! I hope they are playing music from Hair!
AdLib : AD – The MSM tried to bury the story until the “sexy” angle of harmless women being assaulted by an NYPD asshole. They can’t help themselves, much as they only want to promote the status quo, they are addicted to exploitation so they had to run with this story. There is a lesson here for the Dems and Progressives. The MSM may try to ignore you but if you find a “sexy”, exploitative angle, they’ll betray their principles in a second to make money (thru viewership) off of it.
ADONAI : I just wonder who will be the first “leader” to capitalize on the movement.
kesmarn : I saw that, Patsy. Pretty soon it’s going to be getting a little — shall we say — nippy? — for that.
ADONAI : Damn hippies
funksands : The Police Union is considering marching with the protesters in Denver
PatsyT : What is up with the girls going topless in the wall street protest? I think they figured out a way to get some media coverage.
kesmarn : For what it’s worth Occupy Toledo is coming soon — early October, they say. Beer and hot dogs.
ADONAI : Airline pilots have it so bad. Apparently many of them make less a year than you would working at McDonald’s. And the airlines continue to cut things, cry poverty, and rake in huge bonuses.
funksands : You know those airline pilots are notorious agitators.
AdLib : Kes – That is so cool! Unions and Progressive groups need to put aside their provincialism and hop on this Wall Street Protest train, this has media and public momentum. It is perfectly positioned to grow into a national movement and protest if people will just jump on board the basic protest concept and worry about the specifics a little later.
SueInCa : Yeah I will soon be in the bay area where protesting is a little more prevalent. I saved CL’s website. LA had a lot on there
funksands : 700 airline pilots demonstrated in front of Wall Street Tues.? Wow.
ADONAI : I hope so Al. The more people that get out, the better. The MSM still pisses me off though. Like the goddamn thing wasn’t a story til they got involved.
SueInCa : Adlib
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy!
AdLib : Hey Patsy!
funksands : Hi Sabreen / Patsy!
ADONAI : Hello Patsy!
AdLib : AD – Unions are coming out to support the Wall Street protest, it’s now finally broken through the MSM wall and is everywhere. Companion protests are sprouting up…I think this could be the wildfire of populism growing.
PatsyT : Hi Guys How is everyone?
SueInCa : Funk she was pressured big time to do it and I think the stories of her as DA have her being extra careful in what she does now so there is no questions
kesmarn : AdLib, I saw that the Continental pilots union joined Occupy Wall Street. Hey, NYPD, gonna pepper spray those guys?
funksands : There’s an occupy Cincinnati? Now I’ve heard everything…
AdLib : Hi Sabreen!
AdLib : Funk – You’re right about that. Time to take these banks down a few pegs!
ADONAI : Hello sabreen!
ADONAI : It appears to be gaining ground. I heard it had spread out west and more and more cities have people planning rallies. I just wonder if it will be too diluted by various agendas to succeed in the long term.
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen!
Sabreen60 : Hi folks!
kesmarn : Feel better soon, Em!
ADONAI : No one had to pay attention after 9/11. We were told to go back to shopping and pay no attention. Everything is under control. A lot of people called bullshit but it just wasn’t enough. God bless’em, they tried.
funksands : Ad, Sue, your attorney general did a good thing today re: the bank settlement
AdLib : That’s the thing, a cocktail of deceit, greed and incompetence has been bringing this country and its principles down. Which brings me to the next subject…is the Occupy Wall Street protest gaining ground?
SueInCa : The Patriott Act, too many people let the scare of 9/11 temper their judgment instead of just thinking for themselves. It was not rocket science to know who was involved and Saddam had nothing to do with it. This was the plan of PNAC all along
ADONAI : Nite Em! Hope you feel better in the morning!
AdLib : Emerald, please rest and take care of yourself!
AdLib : Kes – I found an old chain letter saying that 9/11 would happen if I didn’t send it to 10 friends…so everyone…sorry !
Emerald1943 : Hey everyone…I’m sorry. I thought I could maybe keep up with you tonight. But unfortunately, I don’t think I can. Have loads and fun and solve ALL the problems of the world. I’ll see you tomorrow! Love to all!
kesmarn : Bush and Rice should have read the memo from Clinton.
ADONAI : Al, Of course. You can see how easy it is go straight to a conspiracy. People KNEW. That was my point. Of course there was incompetence. But people knew. Mistakes, of course. But somewhere, someone knows.
AdLib : Sue – That’s where we are today. Another issue I differ with Obama on, he supports warrantless wiretapping and it still goes on.
kesmarn : Heck, my SISTER knew 9/11 was going to happen — even named BinLaden — wished I’d saved that August email from her.
SueInCa : Adlib don’t get us started on warrantles wire tapping, it is like having a clone of JEdgar back
AdLib : AD – Some people lean towards the conspiracy theory on that, assuming the CIA knows everything so had to let 9/11 happen. I think that when it comes to such things, incompetency is almost always right. The CIA has gotten some things right and other things very wrong. Thanks to them, there IS an Al Qaeda.
kesmarn : Yes, maybe more than one judge if possible, AdLib… and not appointed by either party.
AdLib : Kes – That’s where I lean on this, there should be some kind of judicial oversight, as there used to be on wiretapping, so a judge can say, “Yes, I see the proof, this is justified.”
ADONAI : That’s a good question Al, Ask them. If the CIA, FBI, MI5, and dozens other intelligence agencies all knew 9/11 was gonna happen, why did it happen?
kesmarn : At the hospital, we have an ethics panel.
kesmarn : If only there were some sort of Council of Sane People who could give thumbs up/down on these sorts of decisions — not just the Prez. But who would that be? Certainly not SCOTUS. Not Crazy Congress…
AdLib : AD – I’m with Em on that, if the CIA knew everything, how do shoe bombers and underwear bombers keep getting on planes?
ADONAI : Em, bito pointed me to a New York Times article earlier that said they were tailing him for 2 years. If the CIA tails you for 2 years they’ll know more about you than you know about you.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, my brain hurts too bad tonight to try to solve this little conundrum!
AdLib : Emerald – Which is the conundrum. As in the story (the movie sucked, read the Phillip K. Dick book instead) Minority Report, do we kill people before they commit a crime to prevent the crime…but in doing so, kill someone who hasn’t committed a crime?
Emerald1943 : Adonai, I don’t buy that. I think they want you to think they know everything.
SueInCa : Adlib 10 to 1 he would do just that.
ADONAI : Of course we know. The CIA knows everything.
AdLib : Sue – That’s my point. A Dominionist President might deem non-believers as enemies of America. Those who take action to oppose him…could be traitors in his/her eyes. Then what?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, how do we know if there is an imminent threat or not? We do not know what he has been planning with his minions.
ADONAI : We are America. We are the most powerful country on Earth. No one can threaten us but they do so easily. Why is that?
SueInCa : Heck Adlib you or I might be on a Dominionist kill list
AdLib : Emerald – We absolutely have the right to kill out of self-defense, if there is an impending threat. But what if there is no impending threat, as there doesn’t appear to be in this case? Is it okay for a President to order the killing of someone who doesn’t at this moment pose an imminent threat?
funksands : Ad, I DO think it makes a difference when that person is a US citizen. It shouldn’t, but it does. This is very new territory.
kesmarn : Of course, the tricky part is setting up conditions for a fair fight… difficult in parts of the ME.
ADONAI : Is every crazy man in the desert a threat to us? If so we will be at this forever.
Emerald1943 : \Adonai, I understand your point…well taken. But when one of these guys sets out to kill us by any means possible, do we not have the right to go after him?
AdLib : Emerald – I and others are in a moral quandary about a President being able to order “hits” on whoever he chooses with no checks or balances.
SueInCa : I know adonai it is not right. Kill him in a fair fight, not an ambush. the war on terror gives license to things we would never dream of doing before
ADONAI : I do not Em. We are either a country of morals and principles or we are not. We hold our selves accountable to the law or we don’t.
Emerald1943 : Kes, thanks so much! They are terrible!
AdLib : Sue – When it’s in a vacuum and you’re only talking about the President having a kill list of Al Qaeda and such, that’s easier for people to accept. But when you consider the kind of kill list a Dominionist President could have, maybe not so popular.
kesmarn : Oh, Em, so sorry. Just saw your comment about having a migraine. No fun. I know from experience.
Emerald1943 : Adonai, I have mixed emotions about this.
ADONAI : Sue
SueInCa : Adonai
ADONAI : No man does have that power. It’s law. But when we call people “enemy combatants”, a convenient fucking term, we get to skirt those laws.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, yes they are! What are we discussing? The President bumping off another terrist??
kesmarn : I was thinking about this issue this evening, and I wonder if it isn’t time to establish some new guidelines on conditions in which the Prez can act pretty much unilaterally.
AdLib : Emerald – Sorry, had one earlier in the week. Nasty things!
SueInCa : IMHO Adlib, no. No man should have tht power
funksands : LOL
Emerald1943 : Adlib, thanks for asking…no migraine H/A from hell!
ADONAI : HA! TOOT
AdLib : Emerald –
Emerald1943 : adlib, absolutely! He should start with the repub House of reps.
ADONAI : Al, That is a big concern for me too. I wanted to see Obama decrease Bush’s undeserved power, not increase it. The next guy might not be so even tempered.
AdLib : Sorry Emerald. A cold?
SueInCa : BFF time to busta move on these gys
AdLib : Should a president have a hit list?
Emerald1943 : Hi Adlib! I finally showed up…not feeling well tonight.
kesmarn : Hey, Em! We wimmen folk all arrived in a flock.
ADONAI : Hello Em!
AdLib : Emerald’s in da howse!
funksands : Grrrrreat.
Emerald1943 : Hello everyone! Whasssup???
AdLib : What I was trying to present during the earlier debate on TOOT was to look past this incident and imagine a President Romney or President Perry having that power. What terrible things could result.
kesmarn : Hi, funk! How are you doing?
ADONAI : yes ma’am. I thoroughly enjoyed it but I had to leave just when ti was getting good.
SueInCa : I remember when Kennedy approved the assassination of Ngô Đình Diệm
funksands : Hi Kes!!
kesmarn : Hey, AD! Very interesting discussion today.
AdLib : Hey Kes! Hope so too! You were cracking me up all week!
ADONAI : hello kes!
ADONAI : Al, The problem with that for me is that 9/11 should have never happened. First Bush says he had no part of talks about people hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings. Then we saw footage of him in a meeting talking about people hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings. Then he said he had no reliable intel. Then we got the daily briefing “Bin Laden Determined to Attack America”. It’s always been fake. Al Qaeda is not threat to us. But we a re a GREAT threat to ourselves.
kesmarn : Good Friday evening, all. Hope my out-of-town connection holds up. If I vanish, it wasn’t in a snit. Probably.
AdLib : Obama killing the American Al Qaeda guy.
SueInCa : Who is killing whom?
AdLib : Hey Sue! Great to see ya!
funksands : Hello Sue!
AdLib : Now the “mushroom clouds” crap was so obviously BS, from the first time I heard it and then the repetition. And let’s face it, Bush did essentially kill Saddam.
SueInCa : “Hi”
ADONAI : Yeah but talks of “mushroom clouds” were pretty inflammatory
funksands : The problem with extraordinary powers is once taken/given, the executive/king/p rime minister finds them awfully convenient.
AdLib : AD – I don’t think it’s fake, Bin Laden’s death did damage an organization that’s trying to replicate it’s attack on 9/11. The question in my mind is more about cementing this as a Presidential right, to kill whomever they choos, when considering a President Rick Perry behind the desk.
funksands : You know Ad, there is a reason why the word “imminent” was not uttered by anyone in the Bush Administration for 3 years….
ADONAI : HA! very much so funk
AdLib : Funk – Agreed, that was a very incisive question and cuts to the heart of the matter. Does the 5th Amendment apply to killing people, let alone American citizens, at the sole decision of the President?
ADONAI : It all seems fake to me. We aren’t really solving anything. Just killing people and acting like that is how it is done. Meanwhile we give billions to people who have killed thousands. I don’t like the dark path our foreign diplomacy has going down.
funksands : Its amusing because you aren’t in the ICU….:-)
AdLib : Funk – It’s like protecting the Freedom of Speech of the KKK. It’s disgusting but that’s the true test of one’s principles, if one believes in protecting them even for the most detestable person.
ADONAI : I don; think he does. How could he?
funksands : I thought the judge’s question in the lawsuit against the administration was fair. How is it, the judge asked, that surveillance of a U.S. citizen overseas requires review by a judge; seizure of overseas property of a U.S. citizen can be challenged in front of a judge; but killing a U.S. citizen overseas cannot be reviewed by a judge?”
ADONAI : Not much funk. You can find an amusing story if yo scroll down.
funksands : Hey Adonai. What up?
AdLib : The principle at hand is weighty. Does the President have the right to put out an order to kill whomever he chooses, with no checks and balances?
funksands : As is often the case, the scumminess of the person affected I think obscures the problems of the means of dealing with that person.
ADONAI : I think it’s always been along term issue. Hey funk!
AdLib : Heh! Funksands!
AdLib : I think it’s a complex issue. Those who supported it were addressing it in this instance. Those who were troubled by it looked at it as a long term issue.
funksands : Ugh. My head is starting to hurt
ADONAI : I did miss most of the conversation. I;m still of the impression that it was wrong
AdLib : So should we explore the right and wrong of the Al Qaeda kill?
ADONAI : Hadn’t even thought about that! she was very much the outdoor type.
AdLib : Oh, so it was his mom’s chainsaw!
ADONAI : HA! I was actually worried I broke some of his stuff. A lot of it belonged to his mom and I was trying to be extra careful.
AdLib : Second question, “Is the floor okay?”
ADONAI : HA! His first question: Is the saw o.k.?
AdLib : I’m sure your friend will understand the lawsuit.
ADONAI : Helping a friend clear a few things out of a storage shed. I just wasn’t paying attention. Knocked over some shit that led to a chain reaction ending with a sizable chainsaw falling square on my toes.
AdLib : Yep. What were you doing?
ADONAI : Indeed,thankfull y.
ADONAI : guess it coulda been worse
AdLib : Yeow! You still have all five toes?
ADONAI : Chainsaw fell on it.
AdLib : Ouch. Stubbed it?
ADONAI : Good, good. Thought I broke my toe earlier but I think it’s just really, really bruised.
AdLib : Hey Ad! How are you this evening?
ADONAI : Hello
AdLib : Hey all! Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!
AdLib : PLEASE NOTE: VOX POPULI BEGINS AT A SPECIAL TIME TONIGHT: 7:30 PM PDT! Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at a special time, 7:30 pm PDT. Look forward to seeing you then!
AdLib is online.