AdLib : Patsy, back at ya!
AdLib : Great CL, keep relaxing, you need to recharge, lots ahead!
AdLib : No worries, Patsy, feel free, I’m happy to help. Really looking forward to reading it!
PatsyT : You are all the best!
choicelady : AdLib – it IS fun, and I have one more week. Only thing I’m looking forward to doing though is HOPE. So I’m counting on this whole next week for more sleep and relaxation! LOVING IT! ‘Night all!
PatsyT : AdLib I may have to ask for help, it’s been a while, I hate to do that but once I know what I’m doing I can coast.
AdLib : Looks like time to wrap the Vox Pop bar. Have a great weekend Patsy!
AdLib : Night CL! Have a nice weekend! Hope your vacation was fun!
choicelady : Well all, I think I am also coming to the end of the day. Good night to everyone, have a GREAT weekend, and sweet dreams to you.
PatsyT : Didn’t\
AdLib : CL – Or even in the case of Baggers, A Contract Instead of America.
PatsyT : Choice we did learn shit fro TMI or Chernobyl and they are trying to make Fukishima into a fairy tale.
AdLib : Night Chris! Have a nice weekend!
AdLib : Patsy – Please do post an article about what you’ve discovered, this is a far too neglected area and I would absolutely be looking forward to learning about where things are today in the nuclear industry.
choicelady : ADLib – Dems would have a Contract WITH America as opposed to the GOP Contract ON America.
ChrisR266 : Sorry for arriving late, but I’m glad to talk to all of your for a while. Enjoy your weekend, and take special care. Goodnight!
choicelady : Patsy – read up some on Lois Gibbs and her work in Love Canal. She was a housewife (her term) moved by the illness and deaths of area kids to convince other mothers. Begin where they are – worry about their kids’ health. If you are seeing cluster effects, there are books about how to document that, and Gibbs is there in DC now to help. She’d likely give you good advice about organizing. One book, probably hard to find, about how they came together was written by Adeline Levine of the U of Buffalo. Can’t remember the title, but it should be available. Good document about how ordinary people come together around a common problem.
AdLib : CL – So true, the percentage of Planeteers who actually get involved and get out there to make a difference is pretty high. And come 2012, we need to get out there big time!
PatsyT : Oh Choice I can’t even get started on this now… I gets me so fumed I do hope to do a righteous post on this soon as I have been building a arsenal of info.
AdLib : I’d also suggest that this time, in 2012, it is Progressives who should help harness the anger of Americans out there and get it focused on solving our problems…the first step being taking the House back and keeping the Senate and the Presidency. As I suggested before, the Dems should have a specific agenda of what they would pass in the first 100 days (why is it always the Repubs who have Contracts With America and not Dems? We should!).
choicelady : Patsy – the accidents are WORSE??? OMG! Did we learn nothing from Three Mile Island?????
choicelady : AdLib – absolutely! The best stuff happening today are the mass turnouts in WI and other states, and the solidarity rallies here are best when we see old, familiar faces. That’s powerful. We have to be OUT there, not just griping online. The Planet and Vox are hugely good for getting us to think out loud, but we need to take what we’ve learned and move OUT THERE with it, and that’s why the Planet is so successful – we DO that.
choicelady : Chris – I totally agree. People work best with the people whom they already trust. You have to go into new ventures with people who have your back and for whom you will provide support, too. No time for new alliances other than coalitionally. I’ve gone to lobby with strangers only to wish their demise because they talk too much, are rude, or are too stupid to live. You have to begin with those whom you trust.
PatsyT : Choice the “accidents” are getting worse not better
AdLib : Chris – What we’ve seemed to have learned through the last couple of internet elections is that too many people get caught up in venting themselves online and yet it is only by people protesting in person or helping GOTV that things can change. The web is great for bringing people together but to actually make a big difference, we have to “be” there.
PatsyT : Choice I am going at this from the perspective of a Mom that is concerned about her children and an authentic voice here in the OC. Most mom don’t think about this stuff much
choicelady : Patsy – I think Rochelle actually gave me stuff for the paper via a man for whom I worked that lived in SLO, but she and I are still trying to reconstruct that – she may NOT have been the person I’m remembering since I never actually met that woman. Oh, well…
ChrisR266 : Choice: people need to be approached through the social affiliations they already have. They are not going to go out there and seek out new affiliations. They have neither the time or smarts to know how to do that. You need to get them where they are.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Back in the 70s, Karlyn Kohrs Campbell wrote an essay called “the rhetoric of Women’s liberation: an oxymoron.” It is important because she talks about feminist consciousness raising (a feminist organizing strategy) and its effectiveness as a rhetorical tool politically. She was onto something important then, and it is particularly applicable now.
choicelady : Patsy – it’s buried somewhere in the garage, but if I find it I will find a way to get it to you. It was called “The Nuclear Powered Media” and I gave it on a panel with Barry Commoner in DC in 1977. So it’s REALLY out of date! And it’s pretty amateurish, but there is very good data in it. It’s yours if I can unearth it!
choicelady : Chris – I think you’re right. I really do believe that organizations that have face to face capacity matter MORE right now. Networks build well out of that, but you can’t create those human links very well without the personal. That is one place where the Planet is VERY unusual – we built a face to face organization from a network. But MoveOn has NOT been successful – the house parties are very unsuccessful, at least around here. They never go anywhere. We need labor (locals), churches (congregations) league of women voters (groups) and any other such organizations that come together and have people know one another and talk. It’s really important for 2012 that these coalitions be built.
PatsyT : Choice Love It I would love to read that paper
AdLib : Chris – So true, getting people out of their homes and together with others who validate and strengthen their views is important. People have to get out there in 2012, the enemies of our democracy and 98% of Americans will be coming in for the kill this time but we’ve got the momentum on our side thanks to the vicious baggers.
choicelady : Patsy – Rochelle rocks, too!
choicelady : Hey Patsy – back in the 70s I wrote a paper about media biases in favor of nukes and how the major media were interlocked with pro-nuke corporations and how that led to scant attention to nuclear problems in the news. Took me over a YEAR to write that – it’s a HUGE field! And it has a long, supressed, and difficult to understand history. You ROCK! Keep going – we need you!
ChrisR266 : AdLib: the media personalities and pundits decry populist rhetoric, but populist rhetoric is exactly what awakens people to self and community interest.
AdLib : Patsy – You’re doing valuable work! Expect to have drones attacking it, as you see with the Baggers, they seek to undermine what’s best for the people.
ChrisR266 : I am increasingly of the mind that this 2012 election is not about the internet, but about meeting people face to face, letting them vent about their struggles, and talking them through issues in terms of what vote benefits them and what vote doesn’t. Party lines are doomed rhetoric. Helping people see past those lines is hope.
AdLib : So, if the folks in OH, MI, WI and FL are angry at what their Repub Govs have brought them…maybe 2012 will really be time for a change.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m calculating that from the numbers in the Progressive Caucus: 80 out of 535. 20% would be 107, so I’m being generous here… I know there are liberal Dems that lean that way reflecting their populations, so I’m erring on the side of hope that we’re significant. But it’s only hope!
PatsyT : We are really in this together
PatsyT : Choice Rochelle has been a huge help with San Onofre
AdLib : Michigan’s Rick Snyder is struggling with a 33 percent approval rating
choicelady : Patsy – yeah, that’s about the level of discourse in the Bee. Hang in though – Chris is right. Your voice is needed!
ChrisR266 : All: look at the numbers we’ve posted. These folks have brought ruin upon themselves. If we can get the apparatus to parse the issues correctly, there will be no republican party left in 2012.
PatsyT : Thanks for the support Chris and Çhoice… I have been spending most of my time reading up on the issues for months and I am just beginning to feel like I can hold my own.
AdLib : Florida Gov. Rick Scott’s approval rating plunges further (now 27%)
AdLib : CL – Progressives are 15%-20%?
choicelady : Patsy – I’ve not been following that issue in the Bee though you and I have talked and linked to Rochelle in SLO. The one thing about the Bee’s “posters” is that other than me (cough) they really ARE incredibly brain dead, and I’d NOT be surprised if they were paid trolls. Keep posting though because others who also feel left out do start coming back in. I’m hot stuff on various issues because I know what I’m talking about as you are wise on nuclear decommissioning. Your voice matters even with the wackos in dominance – you give courage to others.
ChrisR266 : Patsy: Yep, stiffen up, girl, but do not balk. You need to be there, posting. What you post does make a difference.
ChrisR266 : WE lived in Wisconsin for 7 years. Walker is going down, like nothing you’ve seen before.
ChrisR266 : All: Remember, Kasich only won by 1/2 of a percentage point. And the people who voted for him are the ones getting most hurt by his budget and SB 5.
PatsyT : Oppps here is the link «link»
AdLib : Chris – That’s very encouraging to hear that voter laws were thwarted there! OH should be for every reason, turning out Repubs big time.
PatsyT : This post pisses me off
ChrisR266 : Good evening, Bito. Sleep well.
choicelady : sorry – hand slipped – we’re only 15-20% of the populace. It’s control, not purity that is at stake. Night bito!
PatsyT : Oh hey Choice I have been getting involved in the Decommissioning of the Nuclear Plants both San Onofre and Diablo Canyon. No simple task. So when I see articles come up and I post I wonder how they let junk on the post… I should be used to that from HP but I think there are paid posters that jump oo the Nuclear Posts and just insult etc. Uggg I am going to have to get a stronger backbone to do this.
AdLib : As recalls loom, Scott Walker’s approval rating drops to 37%
ChrisR266 : Choice: you are correct, I believe. Kasich overplayed his hand by a freaking barrel.
AdLib : Night Bito! Rest well, my friend!
choicelady : ADLib – don’t you think Kasich would NOTICE that? We do all need to remember that the 2010 GOP “victories” were very broad but very shallow, and we need GOTV with Dems VERY badly. No sitting it out, no being pure – you HAVE to vote for Dems even if yours sucks because it’s control of the Congress as well as the presidency that matters. Progressives have to remember that we’re only 15-20
bito : GoodNight all, I’m off to bed. peace
ChrisR266 : AdLib: but at the same time, they did not succeed in ramming through voter id legislation. It is dead. People here may be conservative and feeling like they are drowning, but they are NOT tea party believers. That is a whole different butter cow and they aren’t buying it.
AdLib : OH-Kasich Approval: 35% Approve, 50% Disapprove (Quinnipiac 7/12-18)
choicelady : AdLib – no recall in OH, but I think he will be a one termer.
AdLib : Too bad OH doesn’t allow for recalls of Govs!
choicelady : AdLib – so many people in Ohio have now got health care they can afford, I think this may prove to be Kasich’s waterloo. Take away paychecks, take away social supports, now take away health care. And that adds up to one pissed populace.
AdLib : Chris – But Kasich has maneuvered to get an anti-HCR bill on the 2012 ballot, to drive RW voter turnout. It will be a fight then, hopefully not as big as it could be.
choicelady : Chris – that is wonderful. I have friends and family in NE Ohio who passed petitions on SB 5 – they got something like five TIMES what was required to get it on the ballot. That’s ANGER. Good to know you’re hearing it too.
ChrisR266 : Choice: consider, people here have been shat on by their governor and SB 5. They know that they were duped. They watch this and realize that this party doesn’t give a rat’s ass about whether they can pay their bills next month. The GOP hit their pocket books big this time, and they are really, truly, done. I haven’t seen this much anger in a long time.
choicelady : Patsy – why you peeved at the Bee? I am, too, but what’s your specific gripe?
PatsyT : Oh Choice you bring up the sacramento bee ooo I amm mad at them
AdLib : Chris – Seniors are such a big block for the GOP. As CL says, if the Dems campaign hard by slapping a “They Voted to Kill Medicare and Slash SS!” label on each GOP candidate, they are going to have a tough time winning.
choicelady : AdLib – even BETTER to hear nationwide. If they want cuts and fear the deficit (which we do only under Dems) then Reid’s plan is three times better than Boehner’s. And it does NOT cut entitlements.
choicelady : Chris – that is very good to hear. You are in a bellwether area!
AdLib : CL – I posted the results of a poll that came out today and though the percentages aren’t as stark as I think they should be, people do seem to see, by a big majority, that the Repubs are the ones most responsible.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Oh, at least in my parts, the public understands perfectly. And they are not pissed at Democrats…
PatsyT : Bito maybe we could make it so
ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree. This was wholesale suicide of a party we watched this week. What boggles me further is that no one at any point seemed to jerk Boehner or McConnell’s chains to make them cease and desist. 60 million senior citizens have just decided that they will never vote for a GOP or TEA candidate again.
choicelady : Everyone – DO the public understand the GOP is responsible? CNN and its ilk are doing the “both sides are equally to blame” game. I see some reversals in the Sacramento Bee – NOT a liberal rag – but is this the message nationwide that the GOP is selling people OUT? I think we have to keep the Ryan Medicare death plan front and center because I don’t trust that this does not result in “a pox on both their houses” kind of thinking.
AdLib : Bito – How does the hash tag thing work? Do the people who start one up have some connection to it or is it just a category?
PatsyT : Bito I don’t know.. should it be?
AdLib : CL – I understand but as they keep crying wolf, I think those sending money and support will catch on.
bito : Patsy #nailailes is a hash?! I used it a few times, did it get picked up?
PatsyT : Chris, It tells me that they will obey their real masters no matter what
AdLib : CL and Chris – I mentioned before, I just don’t see how voters will be able to watch commercials for baggers in 2012 and say, “I want them to put my SS check in jeopardy again! They’ve got my vote!”
choicelady : ‘Night kes! Sweet dreams!
bito : night k’es!
choicelady : AdLib – I’m not so sure that they are damaged because very few people understand it was all a lie. Believe me – my members know. Last thing I did before going on vacation was telling them not to believe everything they read. They liked that a lot!
ChrisR266 : Good night, Kes. Enjoy the weekend.
PatsyT : Night Kes… Hope your weekend is great
AdLib : Night Kes! Have a nice weekend!!!
PatsyT : Night Tex! YOu have a great one!
ChrisR266 : It appears that the GPOP has decided to go all in with the merger re GOPTEA. It will be a wound of mortal proportions to the party. They are dead, gone.
kesmarn : Well, boys ‘n’ girls, since I live in the same time zone as Em, I guess it must be after midnight here, too. So I’d better say good night. Have a wonderful weekend, friends.
AdLib : CL – I think MoveOn, Bold, Hamsher and all the others crying wolf have damaged their credibility. They may have gotten mileage and donations out of it this time but next time they howl, I don’t think they’ll get the best response.
choicelady : AdLib – I have encountered several people who are NOT Obama fans who now are looking to him to save them – all depend on some form of SS or SSI. The tide has turned for the Baggers now that their fans see how disposable they are to the new Congress people. The American public want to LIVE – screw the debt!
ChrisR266 : All: What I find most pernicious about all this is the complete and total nullification of the House of Representatives. That Boehner threw in with these people is absolutely mind boggling to me. He just committed the GOP to its demise. I’m just dumbstruck by this move.
AdLib : Night Tex!
AdLib : CL – Yes, that’s where I am on all of this. Obama has many legal justifications, whether the 14th, other laws requiring bills be paid or emergency powers. IMO, he should just say, “I am declaring a national emergency and will pay these bills until Congress raises the debt ceiling.” If the Baggers keep trying to force their crap on the nation, then Obama pays the bills for the next year and a half…until the Dems win back the House.
PatsyT : Nighty night KQ, always great to see you!
bito : Night tex. Night Em peace
choicelady : My one HUGE worry is the time and energy “our” side spent on the total lie that Obama was cutting SS and Medicare/Medicai d. Move On STILL has the pitch up – tell Obama not to cut Social Security! And send $8 while you’re at it. The energies that went into that were all lost in storming the gates of the GOP.
ChrisR266 : Patsy: got it.
ChrisR266 : Good night, Tex, good to read you for a moment, at least.
kesmarn : Good night, tex!
choicelady : tex – that looks like a great flick – enjoy!
PatsyT : Chris, the #nailailes is a Twitter hashtag link but for curiosity I did a Goggle of it
AdLib : Em – Thanks for the kind words. I do think Obama wants very much not to do anything controversial and have to deal with calls for or actual hearings for impeachment. But you can’t escape being the President and having to do what’s best for your country.
texliberal : Well it’s off to watch Lincoln Lawyer on pay-per-view with the wife. Been fun as always. See ya next week
ChrisR266 : Sleep peacefully, Emerald.
bito : Jobs! that FAA bill being held up in the house is close to 12,000 jobs! And the reason for it terrible
ChrisR266 : I am increasingly convinced that Obama will go the 14th if nothing comes to pass by Monday afternoon. He is really safe in the sense that if the House decides to make issue, the public will burn their asses down before they know what hit them. The Senate will never pursue judgment.
choicelady : Emerald and AdLib – I saw the 14th argument, but I’ve been reading a lot of lawyerly interpretations, and I think the Constitutional direction to pay the bills Congress has run up via legislation is a stronger case. Maybe he should use ALL the reasons!!!! SCOTUS validation of the Constitutional requirement that the President pays the bills AND the 14th! And anything else he can find.
kesmarn : Good night, Em!
kesmarn : Yes, don’t you remember how they were begging Dubya to stop spending recklessly?
Emerald1943 : OK, now I’m really going! Good night, all you wonderful Planeteers! See you all tomorrow!
AdLib : CL – Jobs? What is this “jobs” thing you speak of? Cutting spending is all the people want of their Congress.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Sabreen !!
texliberal : See ya KQ
Emerald1943 : KQ, have a good rest! See ya’ tomorrow!
AdLib : Hey Chris, doing fine! Hope all is well with you!
KQuark : I owe you one CL.
ChrisR266 : Patsy: who is that #nailailes? I’m clueless…
texliberal : CL in Texas 7/11’s
AdLib : Sleep well KQ and have a wonderful weekend!
Emerald1943 : Choice, Adlib wrote a great comment on the debt ceiling thread last night about the political aspects of Obama using the 14th Amendment. I don’t know if you saw it, but it would seem there is little risk for him if he uses it.
choicelady : Goodnight, KQ – sorry to “see” you so briefly this evening. Sleep well.
kesmarn : Good night, KQ. Rest well.
bito : Night KQ, stay safe brother!
kesmarn : b’ito, that was the problem in the Clinton admin. That time and energy that went into fighting the impeachment battle could have been spent elsewhere.
choicelady : bito – JOBS? That’s the REAL issue today? Where? Ever since this Congress has been seated, we’ve slipped backwards. So yeah – where are the JOBS????
KQuark : I’m pooped too. Think I’m gonna turn in early myself.
ChrisR266 : Hi ya, AdLib! How y’all are? I hope well.
bito : Night Sabreen!
texliberal : CL Pray the baggers primary moderates in both the House and Senate
PatsyT : Hey I just put #nailailes in the goggle search and you should see what comes up lots of Planet POV … hmmm
ChrisR266 : Choice: I don;t think the Dems are going to lose the house in 2012. This weekend cinched that deal.
KQuark : Night Sab
choicelady : ‘Night Sabreen!
AdLib : Night Sabreen!
bito : I would hate the distraction away from the real problems–JOBS
AdLib : Hi Sabreen!
kesmarn : Good night, Sabreen.
choicelady : AdLib – that’s about what it comes down to! If he uses the SCOTUS standard of honoring the debts Congress passed, I fail to see even stupid Darrel Issa having any grounds. So it would be a farce! That IS all they could say – Obama is guilty of honoring the Constitution and the SCOTUS rulings!
AdLib : BTW, Hey Chris!
Emerald1943 : I honestly don’t think we’ll lose the Senate this next time. The rethugs have really shot themselves in the foot with this teabagger crap and the people can see what they are doing.
AdLib : CL – The Senate would have to be 2/3 Repubs to prevail on impeachment and they’d never get that. Impeachment would be the end of the Repubs.
Sabreen60 : I missed all the great conversation – we had unexpected guests. So I’ll try to read some of your comments, but I’m going to say good night.
ChrisR266 : Kes: a good place to grow up, it was surely. Just not a place the spouse and I could pursue our careers.
kesmarn : wow…cool, Chris. Fremont isn’t that far away. In fact I was there last weekend.
choicelady : Emerald – the Senate moves to judge, but the House moves TO impeach. There are pundits saying we will lose the Senate next time, but I’m not so sure. I do think the House could not muster the votes to impeach, and the current Senate would not convict.
ChrisR266 : Kes. He did, but in a different direction. Basketball and Roller Skate dancing. He was a National Champion in Pairs dancing in the mid 50s.
AdLib : CL – Nope, a 2/3 majority is needed and the Repubs would never have it. I would LOVE to see them presenting their case for impeachment. “We wanted to destroy the US economy and he prevented it! He’s guilty!!!”
bito : Adlib and I stumbled on that hash Patsy
choicelady : bito – that’s bloody brilliant!
Emerald1943 : CL, I don’t know about that, but doesn’t it have to pass in the Senate too to convict? It sure won’t fly over there.
ChrisR266 : Choice: The house might, but it would go nowhere in the senate.
texliberal : I’m just hoping Rupert has to someday room in parts below with Lee Atwater and Spiro Agnew and Richard Nixon.
kesmarn : Oh, I just saw where you mentioned his age in the initial comment,Chris. Sorry — reading too fast. What a prodigy! Did he go on in sports then?
PatsyT : Thank Bito I will look into that
AdLib : Bito – Love it! That’s teamwork!
choicelady : Anyone – if Obama uses his apparent Constitutional authority to raise the debt ceiling, would the House have the votes to impeach? I don’t think so.
Emerald1943 : Good bito!!
bito : #nailailes
Emerald1943 : CL, that would be too much to ask for! But you know they were in up to their necks with the baggers!
PatsyT : So we could have watergate of Rupert and Ailes !
ChrisR266 : Kes: he was 13! From Fremont country club, which was 9 holes then, so he had never played a new 18; had to borrow clubs to play in the caddy tournament.
KQuark : Yup at Ruppert’s age he’ll just step away probably sooner than later now.
choicelady : AdLib – oh, goodie – a twofer! Rupert and the Baggers!
AdLib : When we think about how to undo this Bagger influence in DC…if Fox coordinated with the Baggers who ran for office…as I bet they did, they could be in big criminal trouble.
ChrisR266 : Rupert is done. Toast. His son should be in jail. Might be, if things surface here like I expect.
choicelady : trying again…
kesmarn : Chris, that’s amazing! 37 on the first nine. How old was he? Took my Fave 5th grader out for miniature golf today. I can still beat her, but not for long.
bito : I don’t think Rupert will be charged but his empire will get their wings clipped esp in the UK, and yes I hope the FBI finds something.
texliberal : E1943. God, I don’t know. Believe that one has been an absent landlord for A LONG TIME.
Emerald1943 : I would just love to see the smirks fade off the faces of O’Reilly, Hannity et al. Please God, hear my prayer!
AdLib : Sorry Em!!! Just when you thought you were out, I pull you back in!
KQuark : Oh AdLib to touch the final third rail on the population crisis. A problem is too many people who can’t afford kids are having them.
AdLib : How could Murdoch and Ailes NOT be spying on Dems and their “enemies in the US?
ChrisR266 : Kes: My dad told me a story yesterday about Inverness, playing the course at 13 in the Ohio Caddy Championship. Led after the first nine, posted a 37. Choked on the second nine with a 54. He had never played 18 holes before then.
kesmarn : Oh, yes! Murdoch and Ailes SOOO totally deserve it.
Emerald1943 : Kes, how could I leave with Adlib’s post hanging out there? Please, if there is a God in Heaven, please take down FUX news! Oh Please!
PatsyT : AdLib that is my dream of dreams!!
PatsyT : Tex LOL
kesmarn : Come back, Em!
AdLib : I’m kind of hoping that the FBI investigation into News Corp uncovers Fox and GOP dealings.
KQuark : Dunno on that one AdLib but I know Murdoch loves the debt ceiling self induced crisis.
kesmarn : Rainy, hot and muggy today. Perfect weather for the Senior Open Golf Tournament, Chris!
texliberal : Patsy, threaten to make them a spinach quiche
Emerald1943 : Oh wait a minute! Adlib, you had to go and post something fascinating just as I was about to go…
ChrisR266 : Morning, Kes. How’s everything up there in N OH-IO?
bito : G’night Em, you’re a gem
AdLib : Night Emerald! A pleasure to have you here tonight!
PatsyT : Nighty Night Em all the best….
AdLib : NEW TOPIC: The private investigator at the center of the News of the World phone-hacking scandal denied suggestions he acted without orders from the newspaper. In an attack on the News International, Glenn Mulcaire said he was “effectively employed” by the tabloid publisher from 2002 as a private investigator and had not acted “unilaterally” when he intercepted voicemails. “As an employee he acted on the instructions of others,” a statement issued by his lawyers said. This could be the guy who puts the nail in the coffins of the Murdochs, Rebekah Brooks and maybe even Rupert. Do you think this will happen?
kesmarn : Good night, Em! Have a great weekend. Prayers continue. Hi, Chris!!
KQuark : Sgarlato’s in NE NJ
ChrisR266 : Hi Patsy. Hope all is well with you.
PatsyT : Hey Chris!
Emerald1943 : Hey boys and girls, it’s after midnight here and I’ve got a busy day tomorrow. Carry on this fine tradition of VP! I think it’s great! Love to you all…and good night!
ChrisR266 : Evening, all.
PatsyT : OK the Golden Coral is what I threaten my kids with if they have been really naughty
kesmarn : Oh my, when I was a starving student, I worked at a Holiday Inn restaurant. You don’t want to know…
texliberal : KQ, one of our neighbors was Yogi Berra’s mother. Man could she do Italian. TRUE
bito : I can’t afford any of the AdLib.
texliberal : CL I taught defensive driving at a Golden Corral. Students got free meals with the class. I never ate and they’d ask why. Didn’t have the heart to tell them I’d seen the KITCHEN.
KQuark : Forgetaboutit tex
PatsyT : Ohhh Ablib thats a tough onne
Emerald1943 : Adlib, Waffle House with a Grade B health inspection!
kesmarn : Yes, Em, let them screw up the afterlife and let us get a little work done.
AdLib : If you were starving and willing to die but not hoping to, which would you risk, TGI Fidays or Applebee’s?
Emerald1943 : Kes, I’m praying for the Rapture to happen ASAP! Then maybe all these crazy bible-thumping idiots will go away and we can have some decent government!
texliberal : KQ, You’ve never been to the HILL in South St Louis
Emerald1943 : Tex!! You naughty boy!!
kesmarn : I don’t think I’m on that list either, c’lady. But I’m not sure I’d like the company of the people who do think they’re going there.
choicelady : tex-Oh, golden Corral is not THAT bad! I admit I’ve been there only once though.
bito : OK try this topic: The Democrats are being silenced by the mainstream media. The media would obviously prefer default because it’s a big story.
texliberal : Golden Corral? I’d rather take a golden shower.
choicelady : Hi bito – Mrs. Perkins is now in the building, yes!
PatsyT : Tex, I threaten my kids with Olive Garden if they misbehave
KQuark : Nope the only real Italian food is in the North East
choicelady : kes dear – I’m the LAST person who’d be Raptured. I’m the one picking pockets as they go up. Very practical woman, am I.
Emerald1943 : CL, the conversation has definitely gone down hill!
texliberal : Olive Garden? I grew up in South St Louis. I know Italian food and that ain’t it.
AdLib : Just a diversion, CL!
bito : Mrs Perkins!!
kesmarn : c’lady, have you been raptured?
choicelady : OK – I’m in. But can someone tell me why beef tallow is the current issue? Horse pucky in DC, yes. Beef tallow? I’m confused.
Emerald1943 : CL, that just means that you were here before you were here!!
KQuark : I like Varsity they use peanut oil.
PatsyT : Hi Choice!!!
Emerald1943 : Choice, I saw you…then you disappeared!
AdLib : CL! We see your name and you! Takes a moment!
PatsyT : Or maybe the Golden Coral
choicelady : Hi- I’m not seeing my own name! Help – I’m invisible!
bito : And cottonseed oil is chock full of some really nasty stuff!
texliberal : Thank you AL
kesmarn : That proves it, tex. You are officially indestructible.
PatsyT : Tex, We gotta get you out to the Olive Garden
KQuark : I miss those fries AdLib.
AdLib : They switched from tallow though, supposedly using vegetable oil now but…
Emerald1943 : adlib, they were still the best FF’s on the market! I don’t like them so much anymore. Ate some a few days ago and got a belly ache!
KQuark : Really instead of progressives trying to make our government look like what we think European governments are we would be better off living like people do in Europe, including not having to take a shower ever day, oh my.
texliberal : Kes I ate 25 year old c-rations nothing can HURT me.
AdLib : For decades McDonald’s cooked its french fries in a mixture of about seven percent cottonseed oil and 93 percent beef tallow. The mixture gave the fries their unique flavor — and more saturated beef fat per ounce than a McDonald’s hamburger.
kesmarn : And you can make candles later, tex!
texliberal : OH extra PROTEIN
kesmarn : That’s what they’re fried in.
Emerald1943 : Choice! Good you’re here to keep this rowdy crowd in line!
texliberal : Beef Tallow????
bito : I didn’t see that Buzzy
PatsyT : (*) (*) Hi Cher
AdLib : Tex – Mmm…beef tallow!
kesmarn : (.) (.) for you, Cher!
KQuark : Yum tex
Emerald1943 : Nope tex…not too tasty with chocolate cake!
KQuark : I just think if you look at the US middle class we already are the most wasteful people on the planet in almost every measure.
PatsyT : Bito Titter !!!
texliberal : Anyone want any of my fries? KQ?
AdLib : Kes – Before we were beset by the Repub manufactured crises, you may recall my hope for green energy breakthroughs like the Bloom Box as a way out of the trouble we’re in economically and environmentally.
kesmarn : Cher! Are you on Titter? Naughty woman!
bito : Ha, so this is what Cher is reading “Friday’s vote made Boehner’s job harder, not easier” «link» That will teach her to be on titter and not on Vox
Emerald1943 : Tex, LMAO!! Good one!
KQuark : That would be great but not everyone is socially conscious down south rich people get an extra SUV, golf club membership, etc.
kesmarn : “invest” not “investing” Getting tired!
texliberal : Well Bush could never find oil, maybe he can find water.
kesmarn : The Mercies take a vow of poverty. Interesting to see it in action. They will give up dining in restaurants but invest in hybrid cars. They will wear used clothing, but investing in a heat pump for a residence.
Emerald1943 : K, I read somewhere that Bush has bought a large “plantation” in South American that just happens to sit on one of the largest aquifers on that continent. Wonder if he realized that or if he just got lucky?
texliberal : Fast food? Uh Oh just had me a Mickey D’s filet of fish. I’m addicted
AdLib : Well KQ, if the extra car is all electric, the boat is a sailboat and the home is greened and insulated with solar panels…
KQuark : Adlib one extra car, boat, airline vacation, bigger home, etc… blows that theory out of water.
AdLib : KQ – You are right on the money. Climate Change + Population growth = War.
AdLib : Seeya Funk!
kesmarn : This is true, funk. Another reason why I was not happy to see that Ohio’s Gov was under the impression that he personally owned Lake Erie.
KQuark : Water will be the next oil.
AdLib : KQ – Not so sure about that. For example, lower income people are more likely to eat fast food which is damaging to them, our economy and the environment. Middle class folks can afford shopping organic. Poorer families may have older vehicles that pollute more, middle calss families could own hybrids. Still, as you say, the model for middle class living shouldn’t be about consumption but about a reasonable quality of life.
KQuark : Exactly funk.
texliberal : Yep
funksands : Couldn’t resist. The next world war will be fought over water. Stock up!
texliberal : bito, there’s libraries, the internet. I’m sorry but if ya really want to learn ya can
bito : Later, @funksands
KQuark : Unfortunately two things are inevitable now. Population explosion and climate change. Then the world will have the ultimate population control. War.
kesmarn : funk, enjoy! The end is near!
bito : tex, but now schools can’t even afford books to take home.
texliberal : See ya Funk
kesmarn : Yes, KQ. You know I’m with you on population control, too. And simpler lifestyles would be better for many of us.
funksands : Gotta go folks. Wine run. See you all in default!!! Remember, zombies prefer menthols!!
funksands : Tex, good point.
kesmarn : You’re welcome, friends. As Em says, I learn so much here, too.
texliberal : Another problem Funk, when I was a cop in minority communities a lot of peers would mock students who took books home from school. We need to try and change the way people think.
funksands : Kes, geat link. I’m going to try to find that study for you.
KQuark : I go back to my argument. OK so we want more economic fairness and a bigger middle class. That would be great to make life more fair but if that happens we only exacerbate the larger problems like environmental sustainability. I think people need to step back and differentiate needs from wants. The fact is unless you are urber rich you end up pouring the vast majority of money back into the consumer circus anyway.
funksands : Things aren’t broken yet. Just rotting and fermenting.
kesmarn : I have to admit when I was a youngster (couple of years ago) I was pretty ignorant about issues re: aging. Didn’t know the diff between Medicare and Medicaid, etc. And thought pensions were always going to be part of every job. Hahahaha.
funksands : Americans are great when things are broken and disaster is on the doorstep.
AdLib : Em – People are going to have to be dealing with life and death before they get into the streets to demand economic justice. Right now, many families are just accepting that their kids will have a lower standard of living, less opportunities, no college, no homes, etc. And yet, they just bury themselves in being a consumer of goods and entertainment that they can afford. They won’t do much about their situation until they are struggling for food and shelter. Sounds pessimistic but seems like the way people have become, accustomed to having less and soothing the pain through entertainment/fo od/social networking/etc.
bito : Saved k’es!
Emerald1943 : Patsy, OMG! They would be stringing him up on the steps of the Capitol! It would be “BREAKING NEWS” over at Fux News all day for a week!
funksands : Raise em dumb. They stay dumb.
bito : KQ, I agree, It was hard at the local to pass a higher pension/savings plan, the younger ones wanted money in their pocket, and that was years ago. My father told me the same thing
PatsyT : Hey if that was a democrat what do you think the right family values party would saying right about now?
Emerald1943 : Kes, that was quick! thanks!
kesmarn : On the debtor’s prison issue: «link»
PatsyT : I can understand if a dad has a rough year or even two but 9 YEARS! and he took his girlfriend on vacations! Sick!
KQuark : That is the Catch 22 AdLib where is KT anyway? But then again isn’t life suppose to be more than about money anyway?
funksands : You can’t even TRAVEL to other countries with unpaid support. How did this guy become a Congressman?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, that’s what I meant a few minutes ago when I said that people are going to have to be hungry to get off their asses and confront those who are holding them down.
funksands : Tex, I love that scene.
KQuark : I guess I’m the only one who remembers when they were a 20 something year old knucklehead that only worried about enjoying life. Funny I learned that same lesson when life was almost taken away from me.
funksands : Ad, X2
texliberal : «link» Many Southern whites don’t need anything as long as the have Jesus.
Emerald1943 : Bito, Joe is a scumbag! My son almost got sent to jail over a $200 child support payment when he lost his job.
AdLib : Kes – A real public uprising as we’ve seen in other countries, is the only way to change a system where the political system has become too corrupt. For Americans to get to that point, the level and breadth of suffering will have to be far greater than it is now. People will have to dying from poverty in real numbers. I hope that we can pull back from the brink we’re at instead of having to go down that long dark road.
Emerald1943 : Kes, cool! I learn so much from all you guys! Thanks!
bito : Joe needs to be the first to go!
KQuark : Ah all those young people if they could only be miserable like they should be the world would be better.
kesmarn : Em, I’ll see if I can find a link to the article on that. Back in a few…
PatsyT : Hey can we imprison dead beat dad Joe Walsh?
funksands : Kes, that is very Virginia circa 1650. Two-thirds of the people that settled the Colonies were indentured servants.
Emerald1943 : Kes, you’re kidding me?? We got rid of debtor’s prison a long, long time ago.
AdLib : Funk- Love that as a topic for a post!
texliberal : AL spot on
kesmarn : Yes! to all the comments about the private prison system. I think there’s the potential for some very serious trouble there. And many states are now saying it’s OK to imprison people for failing to pay debts. Scary?
AdLib : Tex – That’s really frustrating. So many in that generation are just about friends and social networks and bars and having fun. The corporate machine has instilled that feeling good right now is everything so there is little perspective and vision in many of them. When they get to retirement age and find that they have to keep working until they die, they’ll just deal with it then?
funksands : It’s not.
Emerald1943 : Funk, how is that different that a type of slavery?
bito : ALEC «link»
funksands : Kes, there was an awfully interesting study done a few years ago that showed that a low-income person was actually more valuable to the economy in a private prison than on the street. Our poor are starting to be viewed as a natural resource to exploit.
kesmarn : AdLib — curious — how does one change a financial system from outside the political system?
bito : k’es, in the ALEC expose private prisons were right on top of the list.
Emerald1943 : Kes, Dick Cheney owns part of a company that does the private prison thing in Texas, so I’ve heard. He’s such a prince, don’t you think?
funksands : Ad, the subject of my next post: The Middle Class needs lobbyists.
kesmarn : I’m getting concerned about corporate ties to for-profit prisons.
AdLib : KQ – The problem I see is that because the dynamics are so basic, our financial system has become so corrupt, the only way it could change drastically may be outside the political system…whose levers the corporations own.
Emerald1943 : I always wanted to be a pirate! LOL
texliberal : Hard to convince many 20 and 30 somethings still living at home, working dead end jobs and paying the minimum on their credit cards to get off their asses. All their concerned about is happy hour at their favorite sports bar.
kesmarn : yessss…maybe, if you’re a pirate…?
KQuark : No doubt AdLib with all the heat but it’s not sustainable and that which is not sustainable will change one way or another.
AdLib : Bito – Well…at least Americans can look to Somalia as a role model.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, agreed! It’s a long slow process, but it is happening.
bito : but Somalia has liberty and freedom!
Emerald1943 : K, sometimes one must use a little hyperbole to wake people up to what’s going on around them. The American people are asleep a good bit of the time.
AdLib : I’ve mentioned before the bit about dropping a frog in boiling water, it jumps out. Slowly turn up the heat though and he stays there until he’s coooked. That’s what’s happening with the way corporations are turning up the heat on the middle class.
KQuark : We are not even close to India or China yet.
kesmarn : KQ, and it’s true we aren’t Somalia. Yet.
bito : ‘xactly my thought AdLib
Emerald1943 : Bito, what’s the name of your post on these guys? I’d like to read it.
KQuark : Don’t get me wrong I know it’s getting worse but I don’t think the comparisons do any good when they are so far off.
kesmarn : Nooooooo….not the GINI, b’ito! Anything but that!
Emerald1943 : Kes, that was more what I was talking about. It has begun. No, we’re not near there yet, but we are trending in that direction.
bito : k’es, do I have to post our gini again?
AdLib : Bito – I saw your post on them and their having hedge funds financing them…supposedl y more liberal ones. You tell me, what’s the profit for hedge funds in financing a party that could drain votes from Obama and elect a pro-Bush-taxcuts Repub. Hmm…
kesmarn : The crazy wealth disparity is one of the hallmarks of 3rd world-ism, though.
KQuark : I just think the Edwards two Americas is more accurate and has been going on for quite a while
bito : Patsy, that’s what I think too. Take away 1-2% from every county and Obama loses.
AdLib : Patsy – It isn’t Progressive to hide your financiers and those in control over your “party”. I do think it is a ploy to drain votes away from Obama, as you say.
PatsyT : Bito… I can see that because how do you get the ability to be in all 50 states so quick?
kesmarn : Jinx, Em! If you haven’t actually seen it, it’s hard to believe.
Emerald1943 : Yes, K…I hear you. But have you been to Detroit? There are already many small towns in the south that are “third-world” as I see it.
PatsyT : Another ploy to take away votes from President Obama
kesmarn : I dunno, KQ. I’ve been to Detroit….
AdLib : Emerald – Just like the housing collapse though, this destruction of the middle class is unsustainable. WIthout a strong consumer base with sufficient purchasing power, the whole structure of Crony Capitalism collapses. But of course, as long as Wall Street fills its pockets on the way to driving off the cliff and can jump out of the car in time, they don’t care.
PatsyT : Hey I tried that American Elect page and got “Not found Error” And they are saying they are leaning to the progressive side
KQuark : I’ve been to Panama and Columbia and no we are not close to them not by a long shot.
bito : AdLib, I posted a an article on them–They are hedge fund people!
KQuark : Every time I hear that meme I gotta admit I cringe Emerald. I wonder if anyone has ever been to a third world country.
AdLib : Bito – That America Elects has been getting some attention too as a 3rd party but they continue to hide the identity of their financiers. Hmm…wonder why?
kesmarn : Yes, there are some folks who approach voting, activism etc with the attitude that “this is about more than just me and mine.” But that seems to be getting rarer and rarer…
KQuark : Nader is to vain to run with big personalities.
Emerald1943 : Kes, we are quickly being turned into a third-world country. A shrinking middle class, rising poverty, crumbling infrastructure, a huge unemployment problem, stagnant wages, a poor educational system…I am watching the disintegration of my country right before my eyes. That is the way the upper 2% want it in this country…slave labor for the big box stores. We are fighting a foe that we’ve never faced before, and at this point, we are losing.
bito : Primary challenge to Obama: Nader and Ron Paul or Nader and Bernie?
PatsyT : Boy Kes, that really sums it up at times..
AdLib : Kes – You’re so right! I wonder if that’s more unique to the modern age when people are so disconnected and consumed with entertainment and distraction. It’s like being Neo in The Matrix, a minority seems to be awake to what’s going on and are fighting for everyone’s freedom…while the majority just happily work and play in the illusion.
kesmarn : AdLib, I know. Sometimes you get the sense that you’re fighting battles for people who could hardly care less.
bito : Thanks for the link AdLib! I will read
KQuark : The discretionary cuts they are talking about are 5% ON AVERAGE for 10 years which you know will be about 3% once you account for revenue increase.
AdLib : Kes – Yes, that story about Kaskade was a bit discouraging. People in their 20’s so caught up in themselves and having fun while their nation and their future are in jeopardy.
bito : Sen. J.Kerry was worried about that too KQ, cutting off savings.
Emerald1943 : tex, I hate to think this but they are going to have to be hungry! When they have no money and no food and their kids are going to bed with no supper, then maybe they’ll get inspired.
texliberal : didn’t the 76ers and Flyers play at the Spectrum
AdLib : Here’s the link to the DCCC page describing the plan, I don’t see anything in it that says there are mandatory cuts to social programs: «link»
kesmarn : KQ, that’s where taxing the rich would come in mighty handy…future revenue.
Emerald1943 : Bito et al. thanks! That kind of “spectrum”.
AdLib : Em – Spectrum as in tv and radio spectrums.
bito : “spectrum sales are broadband and such.
texliberal : E1943, what has to be done to them before they respond?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, thanks…it’s all good now. It cleared itself.
KQuark : The only thing I’m worried about is “future savings” won’t have enough revenue increases.
AdLib : Emerald – If you aren’t seeing all of the comments, clear your browser cache then reload this page.
kesmarn : AdLib, didn’t you post that story about DJ Kaskade getting the crowds out into the streets of LA and feeling passionate…all for a dubious cause? Bummer.
Emerald1943 : What the heck are “spectrum sales”??
bito : And the R’s are calling them false cuts
Emerald1943 : tex, I was in Washington during the Vietnam war for the Moratorium. I just don’t think the American people have it in them anymore! You can’t get them off their fat asses to do anything!
AdLib : $1.2 Trillion in Discretionary Spending Cuts. The $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts include both defense and non-defense spending.
AdLib : Details Of The $2.7 Trillion Senate Democratic Package: $1.2 Trillion in Discretionary Spending Cuts — $70 Billion in Mandatory Savings — $40 billion in Program Integrity Savings. — $15 Billion In Spectrum Sales — $10 -15 Billion In Agricultural Reforms — Higher Education Program Reforms Whose Savings Go To Sustain The Pell Grant Program — $1 Trillion in Savings From Winding Down the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — $400 Billion in Interest Savings — Establishes Joint Congressional Committee to Find Future Savings
KQuark : That simply does not fit because the debt savings and war savings themselves are over $1.5 trillion. You assume ever other cut is social which it can’t be.
texliberal : Funk, both sides seem to want to cut the poor off at the knees. Remember the riots of the 60’s especially ’68. Might be what it takes
Emerald1943 : Hey what happened? part of the text here just disappeared.
kesmarn : I’m afraid even the best deal we can get out of this whole mess is going to be kinda ugly, Em…
bito : That is what Sanders says and the bill isn’t even out. There are many adjustments-Obam a’s words- that can be made and the firebaggers call them cuts.
Emerald1943 : Funk, that scares the bejesus out of me! Where are the Democratic values???
KQuark : I noticed MSNBC, especially Schultz and Maddow have Sanders, Kucinich, Nation, KOS, Firbags, AOLHP and that’s it.
PatsyT : How about that little talk Boehner gave before his failed Boehner Bill vote today… Was that W.C Fields?
funksands : «link»
Emerald1943 : K, those would be cuts I could agree with.
funksands : “Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s plan calls for $2.4 trillion in cuts over a 10-year-period and includes $900 billion in cuts in areas such as education, health care, nutrition, affordable housing, child care and many other programs desperately needed by the poor and vulnerable.”
AdLib : I have liked Bernie in the past but his unrelenting hollering that the end is near makes me a bit less receptive.
KQuark : funk Sanders is clearly overstating that number since most cuts are to the military.
kesmarn : KQ, we were almost word for word on that one!
Emerald1943 : funk, I tend to take Bernie with a grain of salt, but this is what worries me about these bills. We are so panicked about the crisis that we are forgetting to look at where those cuts would be and who they would hurt.
AdLib : Funk – I know that there were undefined cuts in the bill but didn’t know any were targeted on social programs.
KQuark : He assumed the anarchist Tea Party types knew how to play the game.
kesmarn : He failed to realize he was dealing with wild-eyed fanatics. The usual rules of the game are all off with them.
bito : Sanders has been wonkers this week.
KQuark : Yup I agree on that AdLib
KQuark : It was not just classic overreach with Boehner it was thinking placating to the red meat base would win him favor for harder votes.
funksands : Sen. Sanders is saying the Reid bill has $900 billion in cuts to social programs. Anyone else see this?
kesmarn : I’m resisting the pity impulse, ladies!
Emerald1943 : No tex, the only thing I have in common with Speaker Boner is that I really like Merlot!
AdLib : KQ – Boehner has been around for a while and I think he took for granted that when he whipped members to vote for a big bill, as always in the past, they would. He and most of the Repub Elite have underestimated the lunacy of Baggers and are suffering the consequences.
PatsyT : Hey Kes, I got over that
Emerald1943 : Kes, nooooo!
texliberal : E1943, need some of my Crown Royal with that cake?
funksands : Kes, I know how you feel.
bito : I agree KQ, he did look weak.
kesmarn : As Patsy said — I’m almost tempted to feel sorry for the guy… Almost.
Emerald1943 : I was wondering if he was going to break down during his little speech tonight. He looked close to the breaking point.
funksands : Boehner is a Merlot drinker. Seriously. He drinks wine.
KQuark : I know we went around on this AdLib but I still can’t believe Boehner made himself look so weak.
kesmarn : funk…very high. And still has a “binky.”
AdLib : Boehner’s bathtub has a wet bar attached, he fills it up with Jack Daniels and drinks himself down to the end of his bath.
Emerald1943 : Oh god, tex…my brain is not connected to my fingers tonight! Sorry! I have been too focused on the scumbags that I forgot we actually have a Dem there!
KQuark : got me their tex with Perry as gov
funksands : Kes, what are the odds he sucks his thumb?
kesmarn : funk…followed by a good hard cry, then off to bed.
texliberal : KQ, Texas need I say more?
texliberal : E1943 all dems in the House voted NAY
KQuark : You should be represented by Gingrey, Chambliss and Isaacson EEEEKK!
funksands : Look like another night of Manilow/schnapps blackouts for Boehner tonight…
Emerald1943 : Tex, I didn’t see his name on the list earlier. Are you sure about him?’
texliberal : E1943, I know
Emerald1943 : tex, he’s from North Carolina, I’m ashamed to say!
bito : Buzzyquipsis!
KQuark : Well that could be the trap AdLib.
texliberal : Heard Heath Schuler voted nay this time
AdLib : Hey Patsy!
bito : Bingo k’es!
AdLib : If Obama did use his emergency powers or 14th Amendment to pay the bills, as pissed off as they’d be, the Baggers would lose all their leverage and I think, most public support going forward. There will be some who want to impeach Obama but as I mentioned, that will only strengthen him and bring more support and popularity. Man…this really could be a repeat of the ’90’s and Clinton…except instead of having an affair, Obama will have saved the nation!
texliberal : Hello Patsy
Emerald1943 : Patsy!! Glad you’re here!
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy!
KQuark : I thought his last prime time speech he went as far as he could to call out Tea Baggers. Gotta remember that a third of the country is always on the fence about the president these dayts
kesmarn : Becomes the 88th, b’ito?
PatsyT : Hey Guys, I hope you are all well… I am going to read a bit of the thread…
Emerald1943 : Kes, he’s STILL stuck on that “bipartisan” thing. I wish he would get over it.
bito : So Speaker B,walks into a bar and sees 87 drunk roaches, what does he do?
kesmarn : Yes, it always worries me when he says: “Congress needs to do its job.” How ’bout :”The Republicans need to….”?
Emerald1943 : You’re right, K. Only when he came out and did his “professor” bit did the American people begin to understand it. He’s good at that.
AdLib : Obama should make it crystal clear that he’s acting in an emergency to protect Americans and the nation’s economy BECAUSE the Repubs in the House have failed to uphold their responsibility and put all at risk.
KQuark : tex
texliberal : KQ, Daddy Day Care
KQuark : Remember just a few weeks ago people did not outright support raising the debt ceiling. That’s a messaging win by the President no one talks about.
funksands : Bito, perfect.
Emerald1943 : K, they’re more worried about saving their own asses in the next election than they are about doing what they need to do.
kesmarn : b’ito!
bito : Herding roaches?
KQuark : Exactly AdLib.
kesmarn : No risk, all gain. That’s their game. What patriots!
KQuark : Yup Kes already Congress is trying to shirk their responsibility.
kesmarn : Rabid bats?
AdLib : KQ – If he had even hinted about doing this, there wouldn’t have been any possibility for a deal, the Baggers would refuse to go along with anything and bait Obama into doing so, claiming that his saying so derailed a deal so he could act as a dictator.
KQuark : If dealing with Dems is herding cats, what’s dealing with Tea Party repugs?
Emerald1943 : K, ever since he took office, he has been poking and prodding the Congress to do its job, and this time it’s no different.
funksands : I think that Congressmen have a hard time being Pres because of their legislative myopia.
kesmarn : KQ, I agree. The minute he tips his hand, they will buckle and take the coward’s way out.
AdLib : Obama does seem to have left that door very open, just narrowly focused on whether he thinks the 14th is a winning argument.
KQuark : I just think he does not want to give Congress and easy out.
KQuark : What’s that funk?
kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, I notice Obama’s been very careful with the wording when he talks about the 14th.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, he said his lawyers “didn’t think that was a winning argument” but he never said he would not use the 14th!
bito : I think there will be a deal, but if not, I vote for Emgncy powers, it has presidence
Sabreen60 : AdLib: The UCLA Law Professor on the Last Word said because the teabaggers have already violated the Constitution by holding the debt ceiling hostage in order gain stuff they want, the President can, Constitutionally raise the debt ceiling. Will he? I say yes, IF no deal has been reached by Tuesday. The teabaggers will go batshitcrazy, but they’re that anyway.
funksands : KQ, good eye. What is that? The more detail you can pick out, the harder to see the big picture?
texliberal : E1943 EXACTLY
AdLib : If you parse Obama’s words, he has said that he doesn’t believe the 14th Amendment gives him the power to unilaterally pay our bills…but he hasn’t said he doesn’t believe he has that power.
texliberal : KQ, when LBJ wanted to tame a freshmen Congresssman he’d call them into the Oval Office retire to an adjoining bathroom and converse with them while taking a DUMP. TRUE
KQuark : That’s the thing with someone as tuned into the Senate as LBJ. When he was doing something good like Medicare it was great but when he was getting more troops in Vietnam it was bad.
kesmarn : That sounds about right, funk.
KQuark : He’ll do it Adlib but it would be some time that week.
Emerald1943 : LBJ would have been on the phones non-stop twisting arms and threatening blackmail or whatever he had to do! He was the ultimate pol!
funksands : Ad, I said on the 10th of July that Obama will invoke emergency powers, tell Timmy to pay the bills for as long as it takes Congress to figure it out.
bito : LBJ would pass a surtax and send more troops!
Emerald1943 : CAKE!!!! It’s yummy!
AdLib : Hi Sabreen!
KQuark : LBJ would be looking at maps finding out were to bomb in Afghanistan.
kesmarn : Blackmail every one of ’em, tex, bless his li’l heart!
AdLib : Mini Poll: If there is no deal by Tuesday night, do you think Obama will invoke emergency powers or the 14th Amendment to pay the bills or might he feel that would be overstepping his power and do nothing, concerned that he may be seen as a “dictator” and vlunerable to impeachment?
texliberal : What would LBJ do?????
texliberal : CAKE???????????? ?
KQuark : I think leaving the debt ceiling increase up to Obama is a good idea now but not a few weeks ago. Now he’ll look like the only responsible elected official in Washington when the Congress votes down debt ceiling after debt ceiling.
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! ‘Tis indeed.
bito : Thought from West Wing. WWR wonders what kids studying civics & government today think about our hyper-partisan, paralyzed govt. – can they do better? Hope so
Sabreen60 : Hi Everyone. I gather it’s debt ceiling night.
kesmarn : Mmmmm. Friday night cake!
texliberal : AL I couldn’t agree more
kesmarn : It’s like being on a bus driven by a crack-head, Em. Can’t get out of there soon enough!
Emerald1943 : OK, guys…time for my chocolate cake. Back in a few!
KQuark : Don’t blame you Bito. I can’t watch the Tea Baggers talk. My IQ just drops 20 points every minute
AdLib : If that’s McConnell’s and the GOP’s plan, Obama needs to be ready to use emergency powers to pay bills until any poison is removed from the bill.
KQuark : But they had shit all over ’em
Emerald1943 : Kes, I wish I thought that something could be done after all this is over. The elections are just too far away…and I want them out NOW!!!
bito : Em, I tried to watch Barkmann at the Press Club when she said that. I COULD NOT watch her
AdLib : McConnell’s game seems to be, push this to the absolute last second so they can force some terrible things in the bill at the last second and the Dems and Obama will be forced to agree.
KQuark : or the autonomous collective in Monty Python and the Holy Grail
kesmarn : Em, they really are.
texliberal : KQ the only true democracy slavery and all was Athens circa 300 BCE
Emerald1943 : Kes, well they are traitors IMO.
kesmarn : Baggers in orange jumpsuits….ahh hh…I can see it now…
KQuark : I would just be happy getting rid of the filibuster and having a true democracy.
texliberal : KES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
AdLib : Kes – Good point, dictatorship when the dictator’s on your side of the issues can be appealing.
Emerald1943 : Bachmann has already said he would be a dictator! She’s such a bitch!
kesmarn : It IS a shame to waste a facility like Gitmo, tex…
texliberal : I know
AdLib : Tex – A nice dream indeed.
Emerald1943 : Tex, the Prez would NEVER do that…he’s just too nice a guy!
kesmarn : Nothin’ like a little good ole benevolent dictatorship. To even up for Dubya’s malevolent one.
AdLib : Whoa, nice smiley KQ!
texliberal : AL E1943, how about Obama goes a little Lincoln and suspends Habeas corpus and throws some of these baggers in the slammer? I know, far fetched but I’m dreaming.
bito : Good k’es! That would be a spin.
Emerald1943 : Kes, you got my vote!
KQuark : ٩(๏̯͡๏)۶ Back from lurking
funksands : There is good economic news coming down the pipeline. If this issue doesn’t get resolved soon, it will drown.
AdLib : Bito – Curse you, always a step ahead of me!
kesmarn : Hey, if Egypt could have a 30 year state of emergency, we’re entitled to three or four. Just get it all done then. Raise the min. wage, universal single payer, 90% tax rate on the wealthy…
bito : Patting my back–I said that yesterday about declaring an emergency like Lincoln
Emerald1943 : Kes, the legal talking heads say that they would have a hard time proving that they were damaged by the President’s saving the nation’s economy…theref ore, no basis for a suit.
AdLib : Kes – The Baggers can try to impeach for anything they want but doing so for not allowing the nation to cvrash and burn will only help him, I hope they would.
funksands : Kes, YES
Emerald1943 : Adlib, well it is a national emergency! Maybe he should do just that!
kesmarn : You have to wonder how they could spin it. “You single handedly saved the nation. We’re gonna have to impeach you for that.”
funksands : Ad Yay!!!
AdLib : Tex – I’ve hit upon a new theory. Obama doesn’t need to invoke the 14th Amendment, he can just declare a national emergency while not declaring the deficit ceiling unConstitutional .
bito : Mixed reports on whether Mitch said what he said. Who Knows, the R’s have been all over the place.
funksands : Tex, nah…the GOP only prosecutes blowjobs and christmas cards. You know, important stuff.
Emerald1943 : tex, some have mentioned that it is a ploy to make him use the 14th so they can impeach him in the House. But I don’t think that’s going to fly.
texliberal : Is the latest ploy coming from McConnell and his filibuster to invoke a Constitutional crisis by trying to have Obama invoke the 14th?
Emerald1943 : funk, you’re freakin’ me out! My motion sensor light didn’t come on! LMAO
kesmarn : Why hasn’t Bing crawled lately? I feel rejected.
AdLib : Tex – I mentioned in a comment, Walsh has instant Prick Appeal. One look or listen and he comes of as an absolute prick. That he’s a hypcrite and a horrible father comes as no surprise to me.
Emerald1943 : Oh goody! Google is back!
KQuark : There’s bito lurker!
kesmarn : I’m sure it was all the former Mrs. Walsh’s fault. Somehow.
funksands : Bito is outside your house right now, Em.
bito : I’m always lurking Em
Emerald1943 : Tex, ’bout time you showed up! Glad you’re here!
KQuark : Joe Walsh is an economic family abuser.
AdLib : Hey Bito!!!
AdLib : Hey Tex!
kesmarn : Hey, b’ito and tex!
Emerald1943 : Bito, where you been?? We missed you!
funksands : Tex, I swear they have their shame gland removed just prior to swearing-in.
KQuark : We talked about it a little on the blog but not here tex great topic
AdLib : It’s very hard for me to be objective about this but I just can’t see how this won’t make people gun shy about re-electing and electing baggers in 2012.
kesmarn : Sherrod Brown is AWESOME. The Koch brothers hate him with a perfect hatred.
texliberal : Good evening. I’m sure you’ve discussed it but what about the Joe Walsh dead beat story? These people have NO conscience.
funksands : Sherrod Brown was really good on the non-Ed Show tonight. Completely called out Cantor and his thirst for the Speakership. Even said Boehner would end up with a knife in his back after all of this is over.
bito : The 18% are mostly firebaggers
KQuark : How about no word from GOP candidates besides Bachmann?
Khirad : Yes it is KQ, yes it is.
kesmarn : After Hoover, Nixon, Reagan and Dubya you’d think it would start to dawn on people…
Khirad : I love that line. Boehner: “it’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to.”
KQuark : 35% would blame Obama outright. Isn’t that the GOP?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, OMG! The Boner has equaled the dismal approval rating of the esteemed governor of Florida, that crook Rick Scott!
funksands : It sucks that we have to have cataclysms before people swear off the GOP, but maybe that’s how we work.
AdLib : WTF? 18% would blame Obama and the Repubs equally? Huh?
KQuark : I signed that oath years ago but I know where she’s coming from. Actually it was during the Newt thing.
kesmarn : Hey, funk! That’s what happened during the Depression, too. Made a lotta life-long Dems.
Emerald1943 : Khirad, good point…I am afraid that the average voter will show his ignorance again and buy into the propaganda from the RW at election time. Of course they will do everything they can to shift blame on him for everything!
AdLib : Public Policy Polling posed the following question to 1,000 adult Americans: “If negotiations between President Obama and Congressional Republicans on the federal debt ceiling fail, and it leads to an economic crisis, would you place more blame on the President or on Congressional Republicans, or would you blame both equally?” Thirty-five percent said they would blame Obama, but 46 percent replied that Congressional Republicans would be to blame. Eighteen percent said they would blame both equally. One percent voiced no opinion. The poll gives so-so ratings to the 44th President, but finds Americans down on their elected representatives. Forty-nine percent of those surveyed said they have a favorable opinion of President Obama, with 47 percent viewing him negatively. The President is on the short end of a 47-48 job performance rating. By contrast, when asked if they approve the performance of Congressional Republicans, just 30 percent gave thumbs-up to the GOP with 60 percent disapproving. Ten percent voiced no opinion. House Speaker John Boehner has an approval rating of just 29 percent. Congressional Democrats did only slightly better, with 36 percent approval and 54 percent disapproval. Ten percent had no opinion.
funksands : My wife swore a oath today to never vote (R) in ANY election ever again as long as she lives. It was pretty funny.
kesmarn : Em, seriously? Did you buy gold? I’ve wondered what folks’ thoughts on that might be.
KQuark : Fights like this are a black hole for both parties until they are resolved.
Khirad : Oh good, I didn’t check the comparable numbers, I was wondering.
kesmarn : I saw a figure of 77% of Americans blaming the Repubs for this. Can’t remember the source, though.
KQuark : I can see the middle who are not paying close attention blame both sides and it fits the GOP meme that government does not work.
Khirad : I’m glad McCain quoted the WSJ on that. Why is the conventional wisdom that this would be pinned on Obama? Then again, Gallup shows people not approving of his handling of this debt crisis -+– as if any of this were on him! WTF! So, never underestimate the stupidity and short memory of the middle.
Emerald1943 : Kes, I bought a little gold today just to make sure I don’t go under this winter! It closed at $1624
AdLib : Hey Funk!
funksands : You know what I love to see? Reid being snarky. Don’t see that very often.
kesmarn : Em, I hear you. All I can see is my 403 b shrinking. And it was not very well endowed to start with.
KQuark : During the election it was hilarious watching all the Repugs speechless until Limpaugh gave them their talking points.
AdLib : I’ll check my pockets.
Emerald1943 : Where’s bito?
AdLib : Does anyone here see how anyone in the middle wouldn’t see the Repubs creating and prolonging this manufactured crisis?
Khirad : At least the apocalypse isn’t boring.
Khirad : Bito had the best Brotowitz report: like Y2K but with Assholes.
KQuark : Oh I know AdLib it’s just good to watch them get their talking points changed once in a while.
kesmarn : How ’bout Harold Camping and May 21, 2011?
Emerald1943 : Kes, the biggest problem is that it just goes on and on and on and on and….I find myself irritated and wanting to go on to something else, but I’m too worried about what’s going to happen to really leave the subject behind.
AdLib : Not as boring a manufactured crisis as Y2K!
Khirad : Indeed K’es. I’d rather not pay attention, but I have to.
AdLib : KQ – It’s just a BS game, the GOP invents complaints to attack Obama and when one is knocked down, they just come up with another. So even after a Dem bill comes to the House, they’ll whine, “Well we sent you TWO!”
kesmarn : It’s one of those crises that’s boring and terrifying all at the same time. In other words: the worst kind.
Emerald1943 : Khirad, what’s happening?
Khirad : Just be warned I might fall asleep on this one. My god this is the most boring manufactured crisis with high stakes we’ve had in a long time.
KQuark : Khirad our international policy expert.
AdLib : Obama’s Irish?
kesmarn : It was hilarious. Talk about someone who needs a teleprompter to order breakfast… She’s a maroon.
Emerald1943 : Khirad!! Glad you’re here!
KQuark : missed that one Kes
AdLib : Hey Khirad!
AdLib : Em – Schumer and Durbin are the next in line, seniority and position wise.
Emerald1943 : Kes, LMAO…really LMAO!!
kesmarn : Hey Khirad!
KQuark : I hope they do vote on the Reid bill in the House even if they reject it. I’m so sick of Repugs saying Dems don’t have a plan. They don’t understand what a plan or deal means.
Khirad : Ha!
AdLib : Em – I saw dumb bitches come out with a statement complaining that she’s giving them a bad name.
kesmarn : Em, did you see the one clip where Bachmann was trying to slam the PRez and loudly announced: “There will be no teleprompters in the O’Bachmann White House!” Whatta dope!
Emerald1943 : Adlib, who would you like to be Leader? I think Schumer is a good man but not sure of his leadership abilities. Have not really looked into it.
AdLib : Kes – So true, even though I want another Dem as Leader, the trade off of having Angle in the Senate is not acceptable.
Emerald1943 : Kes, Angle put out a statement…terr ible grammar! She is truly a dumb b*tch!
AdLib : Em – I can’t think of one thing I could credit Reid with over the last 5 years of his being Majority Leader. I have seen zero strategic smarts and only underperformance , especially when Obama had majorities in both houses.
kesmarn : At least he’s not Sharonn Angle… ?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, Marion wrote about that too. He supposedly didn’t want to address the debt ceiling until the Spring…BIG mistake!
AdLib : Welcome Guests! The beer is in the coolers and the martinis are in the shaker!
kesmarn : I love it when they crawl.
AdLib : Em – Yep, I wanted Reid to take on the filibuster but he was cowed by the elections and just isn’t the guy to do it. Really wish we could get someone else in as speaker, don’t the other Dems in the Senate see how lame Reid is?
Emerald1943 : Google went away…awwww heck!
KQuark : 5 guest ooh I feel naked.
Emerald1943 : Sabreen, are you here??
kesmarn : Oh yeah, AL, there I am on the marquee now. Rats.
KQuark : C’mon bito come out come out wherever you are.
kesmarn : whhooot! whoooot!
AdLib : Kes – I can see your name now. Put those cashews back for the real guests. And don’t eat all the shrimp this time!
Emerald1943 : Hey KES! Glad you’re here!
KQuark : Kes in da house!
KQuark : I’m not mortified either AdLib. The big stuff should not be in the next two years anyway.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, I mentioned that earlier today. Harry Reid had a chance to change that 60 vote thing at the start of this session, but he decided not to change it. I’ll bet he regrets that now.
AdLib : Kes – The only God Baggers have is their ego.
kesmarn : Hey, AdLib. I seem to be a guest tonight, so I’m just going to take these cashews home with me if you don’t mind.
AdLib : Hey Kes!
KQuark : Reid’s are a bit over stated but it’s in the mid $2 trillion. Then of course there is that super congress thing.
kesmarn : Happy Friday, kids. Em, if we could pipe the voice of God into the TeaBag chapel and instruct ’em, I wonder if they’d buy it. They all imply that they get their marching orders from a higher authority than Boner.
AdLib : KQ – I’m actually glad about the cuts being less legit. While the Baggers hold court in the House, only bad things can happen budget-wise so the less damage done and the less that ties Obama’s and future Congress’ hands, the better. I may be a bit optimistic but I think the backlashg might put Dems back in power again in both Houses and THEN big plans should be made. Starting with hobbling the filibuster!
Emerald1943 : I want to know a little more about Cantor’s possible inside trading! Anyone have any new information?
KQuark : Yeah and then tonight he blamed our dysfunction with the GOP not wanting to raise revenue and the Dems not wanting to reform entitlements with baby boomers coming. Isn’t the Obama plan taking on those sacred cows more or less?
Emerald1943 : K, OK…I’ve lost track of the numbers. Couldn’t get my head around them anyway. Too many zeroes!!
KQuark : One thing both sides are not being honest about is how back ended the cuts are and how they depend on much better economies.
AdLib : FIneman is a total hack. I saw him the other day,. roilling his eyes like a Valley Girl with a snide put down of Obama. What a tool.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, since they no longer have earmarks to bribe their members, I wonder if they are calling in their big donors to convince a few baggers.
KQuark : Nominal increases over the current Reid bill I meant.
AdLib : Em – The beating’s not over yet. There will likely be a Reid/McConnell bill he’ll have to try and get votes for on Tuesday night, at the last minute. I don’t know that he’ll be able to do it, their Corporate overlords better flex their wallets and make sure it happens.
KQuark : Howard Fineman is amazing. He literally changes his tune depending on who he talks with.
Emerald1943 : K, what is “nominal”? I thought the cuts had to equal the debt ceiling increase.
KQuark : Actually I’m a little surprised with the latest development. Not triggers. A nominal increase in spending cuts and the McConnell plan to have the president responsible for the debt ceiling.
Emerald1943 : MSNBC does try.
AdLib : And there seems to be no exception to the equivilency of any opinion and its opposite. Any news you’ve seen that calls out the BS?
Emerald1943 : Adlib, I would bet he’s sinking into a very tall glass of booze right now, drinking himself into oblivion after the beating he’s taken these last several days!
KQuark : Yup the imaginary moral equivalency argument.
AdLib : EM – Oh! That “F” bomb! I was hoping Boehner might have blurted something out after realizing he’s lost all credibility.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, right! Fair and balanced, remember??
AdLib : Emerald – There is complete disregard for facts by the MSM, it’s all about opinion now. A Repub has an opinion that we are all imaginary and part of his dream, the MSM will present that as a fair argument.
KQuark : I thought so it’s double what we have now.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, I was talking about the word “filibuster” from the news of the Senate bill.
KQuark : Great point AdLib. Just the uncertainty about the GOP House is a big problem now. Not to mention no efforts to help jobs.
AdLib : KQ – That’s pretty cool!
Emerald1943 : Adlib, here is a part of that false equivalency we were discussing earlier today. The media does not hold them to the facts.
AdLib : WHo dropped the “F” bomb?
KQuark : American car companies wanted something like 42+ MPGs, environment groups wanted 62 MPG and the white house went with about 54.5 MPG from what I remember.
AdLib : Just a mini-rant. Pundits keep talking about how poor the economy was in the first two quarters but none have made any mention of the fact that the Repubs in the House held the nation hostage in December on Unemployment, in the first quarter with the budget and a potential shut down and since then with the debt ceiling. WHy do they hold these as unrelated?
Emerald1943 : Hey everyone…they just dropped the “F” bomb…filibuste r!!
KQuark : But then again if you don’t go 100% some peoples way they are never happy.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, true…but they want to put aside ALL regulations! We are so totally screwed! I am trying to remain optimistic.
KQuark : Exactly AdLib. That’s why I was surprised the white house leaned more towards the greens than the car industry.
AdLib : In fact, just the opposite. In poor economic times, the polluters spend millions trying to sell the public on putting regulations aside “for jobs”! IOW, more profit from spewing pollution.
KQuark : That’s ridiculous. The white house raised it higher than the climate bill would have.
Emerald1943 : I figured everybody might be burned out on the debt ceiling.
AdLib : Are there many Americans not completely disgusted and discouraged at our political system?
KQuark : No way you can get people to worry about climate change when the economy is so bad.
Emerald1943 : K, of course, there was much criticism of the Prez for the MPG thing. I just don’t understand these people!
AdLib : Emerald – Just joking, how can we start with anything other than the debt ceiling?
AdLib : KQ – You’re getting warm!
Emerald1943 : Well, what do we talk about? Adlib, lead us!
KQuark : The MPG increase for vehicles Adlib?
AdLib : Popcorn?
AdLib : Emerald – Missed you last week but sleep is good too!
KQuark : The pop freaked out my wife one night because she couldn’t figure where it was coming from when we were in the other room.
AdLib : WOnder what we’ll discuss tonight???
Emerald1943 : I’m embarrassed…I missed last Friday. Fell asleep before it started!
AdLib : Hey KQ!
Emerald1943 : Love that pop!
KQuark : Hey Emerald nope I’m early too.
AdLib : Hey Emerald! Nope! Right on time!
KQuark : I heard the POP!
Emerald1943 : Hi everyone! Am I too early?
AdLib : Vox Populi starts soon, don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PDT. Guess we’ll find something important to chat about tonight…anythi ng come to mind? See you then!