• AdLib : Night Cher! Night Bito! And John Boy, turn down the tv!

  • bito : Good night all.

  • Chernynkaya : You to, AdLib–thanks!

  • AdLib : Well, looks like a good time to bring tonight’s edition of Vox Populi to a close. Thanks Bito, Cher and Patsy and everyone else for a rollicking good time. We may have set a record for most members in a chat, it was really hopping tonight. Have a great weekend!

  • Chernynkaya : I guess I better get moving too. I still have DP to do.

  • AdLib : One question Bito…are you Batman?

  • PatsyT : I have to pack it in guys You all have a wonderful evening…

  • bito : Night C’Lady.

  • Chernynkaya : bito–how DARE you, sir!

  • PatsyT : Bito is like God!

  • bito : bito is always here, some time he has to eat and go to the bathroom.

  • Chernynkaya : I didn’t recognize him as a button.

  • Chernynkaya : You naughty girl!

  • PatsyT : Nighty night Dear Choicelady

  • AdLib : CL – Enjoy your Crunch Time and bedtime!

  • PatsyT : Cher, I was pulling legs too ;-)

  • Chernynkaya : Enjoy, Choice!

  • AdLib : Bito is camouflaged right now as the Off Topic button in the sidebar.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, Patsy! I was pulling your leg. Shiva is the Jewish ritual for mourning.

  • PatsyT : Poor baggers no wonder they are so confused and crabby

  • choicelady : Everybody – all this talk of potato chips is making me hungry, so I’m going to be you all adieu and go munch. It’s the one thing I have left. Well, OK – tortilla chips, too. But off to crunch and off to bed. Thank you for another GREAT conversation! Night all!

  • AdLib : Actually, the problem Baggers have with counting to 20 is that they count their fingers then toes then fingers then toes…it goes on all night because once they pass 20, they figure if they count high enough, they’ll get back to zero and be able to count to 20 from there.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey, is bito still here?

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Chris

  • Chernynkaya : CL– I could get used to it too. I would watch TV all night long!

  • PatsyT : Cher No, nor does anyone else, but they know they should be afraid of something that sounds like that

  • Chernynkaya : AL–they can count to 20 because of their fingers and toes, but they lose they place all the time.

  • choicelady : Cher – I had surgery in 1989 and fell in love with my hospital bed. I’ve never BEEN so comfortable. I am in total sync with your husband about that!

  • AdLib : Baggers don’t have Sleep Number Beds because counting to 20 keeps them up all night.

  • choicelady : ‘Night Chris. Happy trails – of potato chip crumbs. Just keep ’em out of bed. Even die hard potato chip lovers can take a good thing too far.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–do you know what the shiva law is?? Really?

  • PatsyT : Cher Sshhhh they are everywhere and that shiva law is gonna come a get us

  • Chernynkaya : They have DIStemperpedics!

  • AdLib : Or do Baggers have Pediatric Beds.

  • Chernynkaya : ‘Night, guy!

  • PatsyT : AdLib only if they are not wearing their depends

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–MUSLINS! HAH!

  • AdLib : Night Chris, have a wonderful weekend!

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–I musta been in Ohio in another life.

  • choicelady : ADLib – ohhhhhhhhh. WORST pun of the night. Take a dip. Sheesh.

  • AdLib : Patsy – Do Baggers have TemperPanic beds?

  • ChrisR266 : Time for me to wish you all a good weekend. Thanks for the lively conversation and the opportunity to think about important things. Enjoy your week’s end.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–HAH! Nope, he wants to live in our bed. He loves/hates it. It’s too comfortable. And I know once we get that –what I call, convalescent bed, he’ll never get out.

  • AdLib : Chris – After getting the giant bag at Costco, buying a regular sized bag of chips at the market, I look at it thinking, “Well, what is everyone else going to eat tonight?”

  • PatsyT : I just worry all night about the secret muslins under the bed Maybe thats why the bed has a temper

  • ChrisR266 : Ah, AL, THAT’S very sharp for this late hour. Brava!

  • choicelady : AdLib – now that’s good planning. Have the red wine right there on the bed for morning. Gosh you’re smart!

  • AdLib : CL – To get to sleep I try to count potato chips. Then I wake up in the morning and have to take a dip.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Also, in Ohio, we call every one guys, too. the proper form of address to a group in Ohio is “you guys.”

  • choicelady : Cher – the Teperpedic raises your head and feet? Sounds like my fold out couch! Not fun! He might want to rethink that?

  • Chernynkaya : AL– yes. It is true. And it’s the REAL, Steve McQueen Blob!

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: then, I’m your kind of guy, LOL.

  • ChrisR266 : AL: Embarrassing to answer. I can eat them for all three meals a day. Makes quick work of a pound bag.

  • choicelady : AdLib – if you have to count only 6 sheep, you must not fall asleep very well! You’d run out too fast. I never could do that – I can’t control the sheep image, and they start sailing over the fence, and I lose count. The frustration keeps me awake! It’s pretty slovenly when you can’t control your own images, I must say.

  • AdLib : Cher – Is it true that there is a Blob in the Temperpedic bed? Beware of the Blob, it sleeps and sleeps…

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–I call everyone a guy! I call my kitchen sponge a guy!

  • PatsyT : It depends on whether or not it is hidden

  • AdLib : How long does a bag of potato chips last in your house? You can answer in days or hours.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–it’s true! but what they don’t tell you is that ince you’re in it,you can’t get out. ever.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Glad to know that. Would I also be your kind of woman? That I am.

  • AdLib : Cher – The Temperpedic is cool because as I’ve seen in the commercials, I can keep a glass of red wine on the bed all night and wake up in the morning to drink it without spilling a drop!

  • Chernynkaya : That’d be “MY” kinda guy.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–you’re kinda guy!

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t really know much about Sleep Number Beds aside from the fact that you have to count the same number of sheep as your bed setting to fall asleep.

  • choicelady : Cher – yup. Those sorts of organizing experiences are real eye openers!

  • Chernynkaya : My hubby is now eying the Temperpedic that raises the head and feet. Oy.

  • ChrisR266 : And, you really got a food orgasm going on if you combine potato chips with some fine chocolate–salty , sweet. Alternate until you’re stuffed.

  • PatsyT : Chris.. I am so glad to know there are others out there that have the love of the chip embedded in their dna I love the kettle kind without the flavors

  • choicelady : AdLib – I did not know Sleep Number went that low? I’m an 80! My husband is a 70, and I discovered it actually creates a kind of crater on the softer side when you’re not evenly matched. They don’t TELL you that, of course. Kinda weird.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Yes!

  • AdLib : Potato Chips – Food of the Gods. Especially with freshly made grilled onion dip.

  • ChrisR266 : choice: potato chips will be my last meal. I don’t care if my loved ones have to cram them down my throat.

  • PatsyT : Well Lucky Girls too!

  • AdLib : Patsy – You said it!

  • PatsyT : Couple of Lucky Guys

  • choicelady : Chris – ahhhh potato chips. God’s food indeed!

  • Chernynkaya : AL– #6?!? That’s awesome. I knew it!

  • AdLib : Patsy – As does your husband!

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: LMFAO! Thanks.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I always thought I’d get to 35 and hold. It did not work. But growing older does, as they say, beat the alternative.

  • PatsyT : AdLib you have a cool wife !

  • Chernynkaya : CL–you are reminding me when I was 19 and in college and volunteered for EPIC. We went to the Aliso Village Project downtown to try and organize the parents. It never occurred to me that they actually had to WORK during the day!

  • AdLib : I’m a number 6 on the Sleep Number Bed.

  • choicelady : Patsy – no I did not cry at the wedding, but I did think it was lovely. She has a delightful wry smile I find engaging, and if she and he fulfill the work his mother did, it will be bitchin’.

  • AdLib : Patsy – My wife watched it on Tivo avidly, she loves it all.

  • choicelady : Cher – it’s just not the same eating rabbit food, Cher. It just isn’t.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, I forget what I am on that. But I am a number 7 in the Guirdjieff method!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: aw, that sucks! I gave up potato chips for lent (god’s food, you know) and broke down two days ago and finally bought a bag of my favorite. Took a bath in them, had a food orgasm, and am paying for it now. I will never learn.

  • choicelady : Chris – never heard of that matrix, so I don’t know. I’ll look it up and let you know! A LOT of my orientation comes from watching thousands of my organization’s members kick butt in serious ways. My respect for working families and organized labor comes from hours on the picket lines (where bito spend quite a lot of HIS time, too) as well as dealing ferociously in challenging the religious right. I’m essentially a street fighter, but I got into political as well as street change because without the legal alterations everything we did on the streets could be wiped out with one stroke of the pen on a bad law. So I think both are essential. But my trust always lies with ordinary people. They are the real change agents.

  • AdLib : CL – I know what you mean. I think I made a mistake in checking that “get older” box.

  • PatsyT : Well before I turn in I have to ask Did anyone cry at the wedding?

  • Chernynkaya : AL–Bitchin’!

  • Chernynkaya : As I recall!

  • Chernynkaya : CL– that does suck! But after a few tokes, even non-dairy, non-wheat tastes yummy.

  • AdLib : Cher – Cool! But I’m really groovin’ with my “buds”.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: you and I agree more than we differ. I think our divergence lies in our orientations. On the Keirsey Temperament matrix, I am a Mastermind. Do you know what you are?

  • choicelady : AL and Cher – the one thing I hate about being older is that all the munchies upset my stomach. That purely sucks. I’m wheat and lactose intolerant, and sugar is no good either. Without those things, what’s left? Damn!

  • PatsyT : Late 70’s…. that was me! Disco!

  • AdLib : Chris – That is so true, had it not been for Dean’s push for a 50 state campaign, Obama wouldn’t have won nor would have many Dems across the country.

  • Chernynkaya : AL– you got yer own private love-in now! And the seeds and stems–:lol:

  • AdLib : I did make the late 70’s though, still was some good munchies left on the sociological coffee table. But no love-ins!

  • ChrisR266 : Ything! He took the 360 degree approach, and he made those congressional races important.

  • choicelady : Chris – I’m not saying that we can’t. I’m saying we can’t be elitist about it. The real voices are out there, the real change is afoot already, and we need to honor the people who have already put it on the line. That is how it happened in the 30s, and they forced FDR to make STRUCTURAL changes in the laws that let us have far greater equity than we left in the 60s. I do think you’re quite right that one voice we CAN have is over educating the electorate – since that’s the work I do, I’d be a fool not to think it matters! But it’s not MY voice that makes a difference, it’s theirs. My best contribution, and I think that’s true for all of us, is to give shape and form and possibilities to people who DO know what’s going on but are not quite sure how to act on their best impulses. But they, not we, have to be the actors. People on welfare have to speak for themselves because we are not on it. People with immigrant backgrounds have to speak along with us because we don’t know what they need but they do. That’s all – it’s got to be a collective action, not a vanguard alone.

  • ChrisR266 : oops! Dean realized that you could not conceed AN

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: they are patient, relentless, and about the kill. But being from OH-IO, I know for a fact it is not all about the local to the national. The national here affects the outcome of the local, just like it did in Wisconsin. This crisis is too big to just work at it from one direction. One of the reasons Democrats made the gains they did in 2008 was exactly because Dean realized that you could not conceed AN

  • Chernynkaya : Janice is nice, and if marcy wasn’t running, I’d vote for Janice. Still, it’s good for somewhat new blood.

  • AdLib : Cher – Missed it by that much!

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, AL–I know you were way too young–not born yet! But my 30 year old is still resentful that he missed it, so he got into Burning Man. But you are too old for that! You were right in between!

  • AdLib : Cher – I like Marcy and I’ve actually met Janice who was very nice in person.

  • AdLib : This is good news, folks. And all the Repubs who refuse to run only shows that their polls are saying Obama will be hard to beat. Add to that, the Repubs who are now in trouble for voting to kill Medicare…2012 could be a big year for Progressives.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, the Reeps are patrient and relentless. but they start locally, building, building–school boards, city council, then those people run for the state senate, then Congress. it works. I am now working for Marcy Winograd for the seat against the status quo–Janice Hahn another Dem.

  • AdLib : It is pretty amazing, how quickly the energy turned in DC. It’s still April, the GOP has been in power in The House for just over 3 months and they’ve already worn out their honeymoon.

  • AdLib : Cher – I was a bit too young when that was going on but, not understanding that times change, I was looking forward to when I’d be old enough to be a part of all that.

  • ChrisR266 : Ah, AdLib, that is very good.

  • PatsyT : opps sp

  • PatsyT : Hears Johnny!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: I know and both agree and support what you’re saying. And, you may be right about the difficulty in breaking the plutocratic spiral we’re in now. But, unless we try, the theory of presumption says that it will resist bottom up change. WE have a grand opportunity to educate the electorate about the consequences of fickleness when voting on the big picture. The example is screaming at the electorate right now. This is the moment, I truly believe, for us to seize the opportunity and strangle the hell out of it.

  • AdLib : I think it is valuable to consider where we are today, just several months from the atmosphere surrounding the Nov elections. What a quick turnaround, right? In Nov, it was all about how Obama and the Dems were failures and the Repubs were going to bring sanity to DC. Now, the Repubs make The Shining look like a Disney cartoon.

  • Chernynkaya : I now have a 16 year old and a 20 Y/O step daughter. I have to remind myself ALL THE TIME about that Love-In. among other things.

  • choicelady : “Night kes! Talk with you soon I hope!

  • Chernynkaya : CL– :lol: :lol: !

  • choicelady : Cher – oh, well – if it was MELLOW…

  • AdLib : Night Kes!

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, Chris!

  • AdLib : Chris – It may be the hard way to work up from local to national but I do think it could provide the kind of solid consistency to progressive change that’s needed. With elections swinging back and forth between Repubs and Dems so frequently, nobig agenda of substance can be sustained and brought to fruition. With a solidarity locally, the infrastructure can be set up to support national pols who are in tune with what the people want. I think the national plutocratic democracy in place now is hard to break. I mean…the Repubs control the House 2 years after destroying the country? Voters are too fickle in national races especially.

  • ChrisR266 : Good night, kes. sleep well

  • choicelady : AdLib – I believe that sort of egocentric asshole is actually beginning to lose ground. That’s a start.

  • KillgoreTrout : bito, he says it at the end of Kosmic Debris. Check it out. OK, NOW I am signing off. ;)

  • Chernynkaya : CL–It got rowdy in a, well, MELLOW way! ;-)

  • bito : Might Ms. k’es.

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes… wishing you good weather!

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Bravo! excellent reference.

  • choicelady : Cher – NO! A Love In that got rowdy? Tell me it’s not true! How could such a thing happen????

  • bito : KT, well before Kosmic Debris.

  • PatsyT : Now I was little then but I heard all of that stuff cause my brothers had those records!

  • Chernynkaya : Sleep peacefully, kes!

  • choicelady : Chris – the issue of a democratic republic is critical on the legal change level. We have to understand that. But we CAN implement more direct democracy at the place that REALLY curtails our freedoms – the corporate level. It is critical that we begin addressing the way private property rights shut out ALL our Constitutional rights, the way they control our individual abilities to earn a living, sustain communities, support families, even what our cities and towns LOOK like. We need workplace democracy. The Steelworkers are now allied with Mondragon, the giant Spanish cooperative system, and they are addressing worker ownership and control. There are things going on – hello – in OHIO – that are mind boggling in their success. Based at Kent State and Cleveland State, there is real movement toward worker owned and managed businesses that are not just artisanal bakeries. So there is a lot we can challenge around capitalism that MUST be challenged to make real and sustainable change.

  • kesmarn : Going on 1 a.m. here, friends. I’m afraid I’ll have to say good night, too. Have a great weekend, everyone!

  • bito : Patsy, that is from Zapppa and the Mothers, circa 1967 (?)

  • Chernynkaya : Do you know the Zappa song “what’s the ugliest part of your body?”

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, KT.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I get what you’re saying. But, if we are honest with ourselves about how elections work and that coattails is a real phenomenon in a republic, then, working from the bottom up is the hard way to go about wholesale change.

  • KillgoreTrout : OK, now I’m really signing off. Everybody have a wonderful day.

  • AdLib : Night KT. Now you’ve got me hungry though!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, we’re on the same wavelength. I detest such people, working themselves into being the head of a supposedly altruistic organization then effectively undermining the good it could be doing by using his position for self-gratificati on. It’s kind of on the traitorous side if you ask me.

  • PatsyT : Oh of course Zappa!

  • KillgoreTrout : Patsy, Frank Zappa. Kosmic Debris!

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night KT!

  • Chernynkaya : Take care Kilgore!

  • kesmarn : G’night,KT!

  • PatsyT : Bito Is that a line from Fireside Theater ?

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: the GOP gets the functionality part. That’s why they took all those damned seats in the House. WE have to start being ruthless about the functional part, too (I think).

  • Chernynkaya : I am facing the camera sort of behind a black guy in blue pants, hair parted in the middle.

  • AdLib : Chris – Would you agree that we have the most opportunity to affect change locally, state, county and city? I think we’ve seen that nationally, when it comes to Congress in particular, there’s not so much reflection of the people’s will.

  • PatsyT : They have got to bring back the Poncho!

  • choicelady : Cher – well, if you have long hair, we’ll be able to find you immediately, of course!

  • Chernynkaya : It was Easter 1967. It got rowdy later.

  • bito : A real poncho? or a Sears poncho?

  • KillgoreTrout : Since it is early morning, 12:30 AM, I’ll say so long, and make some pancakes and bacon. Ummmmmmmmm!

  • choicelady : AdLib – are we mind-melding the same elite leader person? LOL!!!! He IS what I think of a lot when I write about that. But he by NO means is alone. He’s co-opted one of my formerly closest allies who now treats me like shit even while placating me and pretending my ideas matter. It’s not pretty.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–I was just thinking how I want another poncho!

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I don’t think I disagree with you about that conceptually. Functionally, though, we gotta thing about how things work in reality.

  • kesmarn : Night, chase!

  • AdLib : Cher – What color clothes are you wearing?

  • kesmarn : Cher,not only does everyone have their clothes on in the pic; they have COATS on! What was that all about?

  • Chernynkaya : Bito–perfect name for CL!

  • Chernynkaya : Sleep well, Chase!

  • AdLib : Night Funk!

  • AdLib : Night Chase!

  • AdLib : Chris – I would suggest that we are a hybrid now, a plutocracy nationally and in some states but a democracy in more local areas.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m on the right side w/long hair if course. «link»

  • PatsyT : HA Love the pic … Ponchos!

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, Adonai.

  • ChrisR266 : nite chase (funk, too)

  • ChrisR266 : Aw, that was a good break. But as I think about everything discussed here, I realize that something assumptive bothers me. We talk about the U.S. as a democracy. It is not. We are a democratic republic. Understanding and embracing this at a fundamental level just might well change how liberals strategize and advocate change.

  • bito : Cher, I think of C’Lady of a Frances Perkins because she never quit working for workers, human rights. She bent FDR ear for many a year until she got some progress, She is the one who embodies “Progess is Progressive” in my mind.

  • AdLib : CL – What would be great is to have some individuals who aren’t elitist type, getting a bit of publicity and attention, so there are concrete people to help lead. As you say, we need leaders that come from the grass roots though, not ego-driven professional organization people.

  • Chernynkaya : «link»

  • kesmarn : Yes, c’lady. Khirad posted a link to a site called “Critical Past.” It has fascinating footage of events like the 1937 Auto-Lite strike. Gives a real feel for how close this all was to the common man/woman.

  • choicelady : ‘night Adonai! Sweet dreams!

  • Chernynkaya : Here’s a pic but noit the one I was visable in.

  • chasethis : I took “smoke break” seriously and now I’m seriously behind. Good night all you fabulous folks.

  • KillgoreTrout : AdLib, what an exquisite thought. Baggers on acid. Whew. Just think of it! Actually, it was acid that played a large part in opening people’s eyes to what may be possible in thought. It sort of unlocked the tiny box their brains were in. It is a dangerous substance though.

  • choicelady : Cher – you were in a love in? How incredibly cool! We want to see the picture!

  • choicelady : kes – I totally agree about more ’37 and less ’67! That movement was by, for, and of the people, not the elites. It’s why it worked. We made a difference in the 60s, but we also left a smaller legacy of real change than the folks in the 30s. We need to draw on the actions of working people fighting for their rights, on the Civil Rights movement. We fought to end the war, but we did not leave changed structures. Once the draft ended – we all went away. (Well not all – we’re still here, but you know what I mean.) We did not secure a real challenge to corporatocracy, and that MUST be grounded in changes in LAW so they can’t just ooze back as they did after the war ended.

  • AdLib : Cher – Cool!!!

  • Chernynkaya : AL–see comment right below. :-)

  • AdLib : Night Adonai!

  • Chernynkaya : ‘Nighty night, AD.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not at all. It is just a necessity at times. Do you consider war “democratic?” Do you consider spies to be democratic? I would hope not. But it has been through the use of war and spies that America became a democracy.

  • AdLib : Cher – If you’re cool with it, please send me the link, would love to see that pic!

  • Chernynkaya : OK–If I can find it again, I’ll post it–hilarious!

  • kesmarn : G’night, Adonai!

  • chasethis : ‘night, lawd. Evil dreams.

  • AdLib : KT – Exactly! And maybe if we got Baggers to drop acid, it could be like canceling out their normal lunacy and they’d act like normal, reasonable people?

  • kesmarn : Cher, you have to post the pic on DP!

  • chasethis : Cher–I thought I recognized you. ;>

  • ADONAI : Well kids, it’s about that time. Good night folks. Peace be with you. Really enjoyed the conversation KT.

  • Chernynkaya : You deserve it, Choice!!

  • Chernynkaya : AL–I follow a LA history site–they published a photo of a love-in and I was in it!

  • ADONAI : KT, But if you have to resort to undemocratic means to “save” a democracy, what have you really accomplished? All you’ve done is prove the severe inadequacy of what you were suppose to be saving. Enough of this though. I shall read and absorb before making a final decision. I appreciate your candor.

  • choicelady : Cher – bito has honored me by calling me the Frances Perkins of his day. It’s the greatest thing he could have said! I promised him if ever we meet I’d try to find “that hat” she always wore…

  • AdLib : How about a Woodstock for the Progressive grass roots in DC, a big concert after which the entire crowd marches on DC?

  • kesmarn : Good night, funk. Dream of Gary Busey.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks kes! D’oh!

  • KillgoreTrout : AdLib, not a bad idea at all. And Human Be-Ins.

  • Chernynkaya : Bito–as an aside, did you find the list of liberals on Twitter–about 900 all listed tigether.

  • kesmarn : Frances Perkins, Cher. She had an FDR connection!

  • AdLib : Look, if we’re going to have 60’s/70’s protests again, we could incentivize it to draw more people by bringing back the love ins too.

  • choicelady : funk – can we create a political facebook? I’m inundated with political crap, but it would be cool not to have the rest of it and have it more openly political indeed.

  • funksands : I’ve brought up Gary Busey at least five times tonight. That is a sign of something, probably a brain tumor. Goodnight everyone!

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, he won’t change your mind so much as to add to it. It sometimes takes very undemocratic action to keep a democracy in place.

  • Chernynkaya : Bito–forgive me–Mrs. Perkins??

  • ADONAI : DECK!

  • choicelady : Chris – I’ll come out with ya. We’ll catch up.

  • ADONAI : Gran Torino. Great movie. Excellent backseat room.

  • funksands : Oh too bad…Gary is so exotic to me.

  • chasethis : PATIO!

  • kesmarn : c’lady we probably need less 1967 and more 1937. Talk about grassroots.

  • bito : Fantastic Cher! and my Mrs Perkins is always working the grass roots. The RR started at the School boards in the 80’s and look what they have now.

  • ChrisR266 : Smoke break! Everybody hang, this is getting interesting.

  • chasethis : Funk–no! He’s way older.

  • ADONAI : KT, Oh I’m very flexible but I find that most accepted philosophy doesn’t appeal or apply to me. I can be swayed easily though if I see truth in their words. Maybe Tocqueville will change my mind.

  • funksands : I wish there was a political facebook.

  • choicelady : bito – it better be less elitest than the 60s. There were too many Messiahs for my taste, too many phony radicals who understood NOTHING. I remember one middle class asshole saying he was going to factory gates to “radicalize the workers” when he knew NOTHING about them as people or the work they did. That kind of ego has to go away. YOU know what you’re doing because you live it. But I don’t want some snot nosed colleg brat telling me he/she has all the answers the way too many of us did in the 60s. I was guilty of it, too. I got caught up short doing an action that damned near got someone lynched. MAJOR eye opener about both my own ignorance and ego.

  • kesmarn : I think there’s anger, b’ito, but so much of it is misdirected.

  • AdLib : Facebook and Twitter helped bring down a heavy handed dictatorship in Egypt, one has to recognize the value in them to organize and empower the people.

  • funksands : Chase, GTFO!! Did you ever meet Gary?

  • Chernynkaya : Me too, Funk. If the media won’t work for us, we have to BE the media.

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, He really does. He understood soo much.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: I’m working on it, one student at a time. I teach at a private University, and we do not have the latitude of visibility with our board of trustees. So we must work in more subtle but subversive ways. We do, and our young’ins are out there working for NPOs and in Media organizations working to loosen the corporate grip. We’re having some success. But, as you note, it takes time to bring down institutions.

  • chasethis : Adonai, no. He (was) is a bit older and a whole lot crazier. But I can tell you stories about a yellow Gran Torino.

  • Chernynkaya : I remeber well, KT.

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, every American should read de Tocqueville. It’s never good to cling to thoughts too tightly. We have to be supple, not rigid.

  • funksands : Cher, I loathe so much about Facebook, but I suppose its too useful to ignore forever.

  • bito : screw the 60’s, I want anger now!

  • Chernynkaya : Bito– (raises hand) Last week I went to a REDISTRICTING meeting. We have to!

  • chasethis : Hello, AdLib.

  • ADONAI : chase, yeah but did you ever meet Gary?

  • chasethis : Did I ever tell you all that I dated Gary Busey’s brother in high school? Didn’t think so. Jealous?

  • choicelady : KT – deToqueville rocks! I use his stuff to talk about democracy all the time. It’s STILL current!

  • KillgoreTrout : cher, it all started at Berkely, with the free speech movement. Mario Savio was a very brave guy, and really got the ball rolling.

  • Chernynkaya : CL– AWW! You’d love it–I’ll let you know who to follow.

  • ADONAI : KT, I’ll do that. Though i am rarely swayed when it comes to personal philosophy. I have an odd view of the world. But thank you for the recommendation my friend

  • choicelady : Chris – get everyone you know, from Planned Parenthood to the Unitarians to labor to march on the news media in Ohio. Picket, yell, risk arrest in non-violent sit ins. How do you think the religious right got so much coverage? They DEMANDED it.

  • AdLib : Hey Chase!

  • AdLib : Killgore – Another approach is to support other outlets. For example, KO is starting up Countdown again on CurrentTV. If he’s successful in bringing over a bigger audience there, which IS a Progressive entity, that could be built up into a media voice for the people.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: agreed. The 60s were a decade in the making.

  • Chernynkaya : They rock, AL! And there are many more youth movements. Seriously, it will be like the 60’s–which BTW, didn’t happen overnight.

  • bito : Ok, I get it. We’re smarter, we know better, but do we walk the our neighborhoods, attend our town hall meetings, Knock doors phone bank?

  • Abbyrose86 : My past is pretty clean…although just like everyone, I’ve made mistakes. I think from a political perspective most of it, WOULD be ok and would be acceptable where I would be running. I love the idea of working from within…WE need new blood in the political arena.

  • KillgoreTrout : Absolutely AdLib. Absolutely.

  • Chernynkaya : Do it Funk. It took me a while to figure it out, but I learn so much!

  • choicelady : Cher – I do facebook, but I MUST do Twitter than I can be a Twit just like you, my hero(ine).

  • ChrisR266 : KT: you only need to look at the Wolfe family and the Dispatch group in Columbus to see what I mean. It is the same all over the country.

  • chasethis : funk–Shhhhhhhh! There’s a reason for “anonymous.”

  • kesmarn : So are you, chase!

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, you should try to read some of Alexis de Tocqueville’s thoughts on democracy and how it should be maintained. And how it should brought about. I think you would be very surprised at what you find.

  • ADONAI : You could get elected funk. I think a lot of people here could. You guys have good ideas. Normal ideas that actually make sense.

  • AdLib : Cher – I’m familiar with Power SHift – that was the youth organization I was talking about actually. They are very cool and part of the coalition that has been built since our Koch rally.

  • chasethis : kesmarn, because you’re smart.

  • Chernynkaya : Abby, I think you’re right about FB.

  • ChrisR266 : KT: The MSM attitude is not complacent, it is subversive! To think that the journalistic imperative is even relevant anymore is antiquated. Honestly, there isn’t a media arm that doesn’t get its walking orders from a conservative, corporate body.

  • funksands : Chase! Good to see you out of rehab!

  • Chernynkaya : Coice–I am a Twit! :lol: Addicted.

  • funksands : Cher, you are reading my mind. I am sorely tempted more everyday.

  • chasethis : Hello, god!

  • Chernynkaya : Hey, Choice! This thread is moving faster than shit outta a goose! (in a good way.)

  • choicelady : Abby – if you don’t have baggage, GO for it. It’s a hard and thankless job, but speaking truth AS power is amazing. I also was approached to run, but I have a checkered past. Hell – I have a checkered PRESENT. I’m a lot more effective as a gadfly and critic. I have CHANGED legislation for the better by being incredibly cranky and leading several groups of people of faith to pound on legislators’ doors. We actually made a difference. But I also am on the street, demonstrating, and kicking up a very public fuss. So all the ways we can work, we should work. Boring from within and from without is huge. We need good people everywhere.

  • chasethis : Cher, you do not strike me as a twit.

  • Abbyrose86 : Cher, I actually like using Facebook as a tool. Some of the stuff that goes on there is ridiculous BUT on the other hand, it can be an effective tool to get one’s message out.

  • AdLib : Abby, there are some really fantastic people who are politicians but you don’t hear about them as much. It would be an adventure and exciting but challenging, keeping yourself grounded in your principles and not sliding into compromises in order to win that dilute the whole reason for being elected.

  • ADONAI : Hello chase! Hooray!!!!

  • funksands : LOL Abby. Life choices and bad habits. Too many skeletons in too many shallow graves…figurat ively of course.

  • kesmarn : Hey, chase! Why? :lol:

  • chasethis : Yeah, I’m here. You guys scare the shit outa me.

  • Chernynkaya : I think I should break down and join FAceBook. And everyone should be on Twitter.

  • Abbyrose86 : Funk…why would YOU be unelectable? I think you are awesome. Thanks.

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, I’m with you all the way.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Agreed. Put simply, Liberal = collective, horizontal, conservative = hierarchical, vertical.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, absolutely, but is the television and radio stations that need to be addressed. The whole attitude of our MSM is too complacent. Too many rich right wingers pulling the strings. If some news anchor said some of things that really need to be said, they would be fired, in today’s market.

  • Abbyrose86 : Thanks Kesmarn. I appreciate your input.

  • AdLib : KT – So true, the press was indeed viewed by The Founders as a final safeguard of democracy. Now that it too has been taken over by corporations, we need to look to Egypt’s example and help enlighten people to get the truth and organize on the internet and regard corporate news as necessarily corrupt.

  • Abbyrose86 : Choice lady, I couldn’t agree more, we have to hold the media accountable.

  • choicelady : KT – I agree with you about challenging corporations and the media which is why I say – DEMAND coverage and honesty from the media including picketing them and boycotting their advertising.

  • Abbyrose86 : Hi Adlib!!!

  • ADONAI : KT, Changing tactics is fine but it can’t go against democratic principle. It can’t “go beyond democracy”. Then it’s meaningless.

  • funksands : choice, sometimes you make my leg tingle….

  • AdLib : Hey Abby!

  • choicelady : Cher – I write under a couple, but mostly this one. What I do know is that very few groups ever reach out to mine. I’m working in CA with ACCE (successor to ACORN after the “recent unpleasantness” as they so deliciously call it) and most of my best allies – hell ALL of my best allies – are drawn from communities of color, from immigrant rights groups, and from people seeking uplift from poverty. The people that drive me bonkers are the so-called progressives that just blather and look out for their own butts and power and authority. And the ones who are institutionally grounded but long ago lost the mission.

  • Abbyrose86 : Kilgore I agree with you…the MSM today, doesn’t really do it’s job very well…we need an EFFECTIVE, honest Media that actually DOES its job of reporting and investigating the entities in power.

  • kesmarn : Abby, if you can spare the time, I think you should seriously consider it.Because the RW is doing it all the time now. Running for local boards and elected offices.

  • AdLib : Chris – The way I see the GOP, it is a pyramid with a few wealthy and powerful at the top who control the message and agenda. That is why they can be so lockstep. The Dems do represent a much more diverse population so decision making can’t be as unilateral, it requires negotiation and compromise.

  • Chernynkaya : I have found several groups organizing that I’d noit heard of. And trhe kids? They are taking over universities again! Thousands took over the Cal state system to protest fees. There is a group called Power Shift–15,000 in DC! And groups with briefcases that say I need a Job! Folks–it’s happening. if YOU don;t know about it, how can we complain that the average voter doesn’t?

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: you are correct about that–MSM will not cover anything that does not serve its best interest. It is corporate, it is governed by a corporate paradigm, and its best interest is to do nothing to undermine the status quo. At status quo, they make money. And, MSM will do anything to make money to please shareholders. Those shareholders are inherently conservative too–they admonish the operatives to do nothing that rocks the potential to make money.

  • funksands : Abby, I am unelectable. You though? I would vote for you in a second. And Gary Busey, but that’s a different story.

  • ADONAI : Abby, do it. If you really want a chance to try and change things, this is it.

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, I still disagree. I am talking about tactics, not a regime change.

  • Abbyrose86 : SO, I was approached to run for local political office. I’m not sure how I feel about this….on the one hand, I like the idea, however on the other, I’m a little concerned. I love politics and like the idea of public service, BUT….I don’t really care for some of what is required in order to be successful in such an endeavor. What do you all think about PERSONALLY running for public office?

  • kesmarn : KT, do you think the internet itself is an effective alternative to the MSM?

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, you just mentioned a few ways. petitioning the government hasn’t been very successful in the last 10 years or so. We need to take on the corporations and the media. If we could change the way the MSM works today, it would greatly be in our favor. To get back the fourth estate that is the last defense against tyranny.

  • ADONAI : KT, What is beyond democracy except revolution? You can’t supersede democratic process to affect change in a democracy. It will, in time, become a testament to everything you thought you were fighting against. Democracy is not passive. At least not a good democracy. Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

  • bito : There are sites all over the web that “get it” so what” C’lady is right, we need voices in/on the major media, we need to support the finacial reforms and the stockholders rights.

  • choicelady : Cher – thanks. These are voice I’m not reading. That’s exciting!

  • AdLib : CL – There is so much going on right now and because it is against the status quo and corps, the MSM isn’t covering much of it. But yes, you have the townhall meetings, you have Progressive organizations collaborating, you have people protesting and attending rallies, you have the unions all energized, the youth is out there making noise, it’s all going on in a big way right now and like it or not, the knowledge of this is getting through to many through blogs, Twitter, Facebook, etc., even though the MSM tries to ignore it. I think 2012 will be a re-awakening of the Progressive movement.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Hmmmm. I’m not sure I completely agree with you. There is a fundamental assumptive difference in how the two groups (liberals and those to the right and far right) approach the world and strategize. The right sees the end as winning power. The win itself empowers them to act in whatever way they wish simply because they won. Liberals and those even far left understand government as a much more complex process than simply winning.

  • Chernynkaya : Also, it is heart3ening that some on the left are now mentioning working with faith groups–Melissa Harris Perry, and I forget who else. CL–do you write under a dozen aliases??

  • choicelady : KT – until you have a goal, what’s the point? I kept having people tell me that we should let the system fall, then we will put it back together. Who’s “we”? We are still NOT the people who are directly affected by most of what’s happening – it’s labor, women struggling to get off welfare, minorities and immigrants – and until we either help them to stand up when they haven’t or follow them when they do, it’s an arid and elitist action to speak of revolution. Let THEM define the problems and solutions. Then WE can help. But there are not enough progressives who don’t just whine to make a revolution on my BLOCK much less in the nation.

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, you are missing my point. We apparently have to go beyond the democratic mechanisms. No great gains were ever made passively.

  • funksands : If a 500 person perfectly synchronized flash mob can coordinate to do a show tune in a train station, we can coordinate 500 people to do other, more meaningful political activity.

  • Khirad : Adonai, ever read Anatomy of Revolution by Brinton. I haven’t but I’ve found references to it to be illuminating. You’re right of course. A revolution takes on a life of its own full of painful stages outlined by Brinton. It should be last resort, as zealous excesses of the Revolutionary vanguard and counterrevolutio ns carry their own steep price.

  • kesmarn : KT and C’lady, yes take on the media and also the capitalist system itself. It needs to be brought under control. The government is not the enemy, no matter what “they” want us to think.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, Ad!

  • Chernynkaya : CL AMEN!! I keep posting FAIR’s list of networks and people MUST at least write. (That reminds me, anyone seen Boomer?)

  • ADONAI : KT, That’s not revolution, that’s democracy. Assembly and the petition of government to address grievances is what this country is built on. There’s nothing revolutionary about it. In any form of the word.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I understand. We at the Planet “get it” and in a seriously important way. I do understand that people finally had to get their ox gored before they would act. But I am so over the moon at what is going on with labor, with US Uncut, and many other actions that are new, vital, and working!

  • funksands : Yes, Ad that is what I was trying to articulate. I think people simply can’t face the cold reality that it is a fight to the death every day. It gets them discouraged and tired.

  • AdLib : Cher – Great! Looking forward to reading them! I loves me The Daily Planet!

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, I couldn’t agree more.

  • choicelady : KT – we have to take on the MEDIA. We must demand editorial board meetings, and if that doesn’t work, picket the TV stations and papers. And if that doesn’t work, do it again – and again and again. Then start targeting THEIR advertisers! It can’t be only about The Apprentice – it must be about coverage and focus of the news in general.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–digby, Adam Serwer, Greg Sargent, –lots of them. They realize things are too dire for purity!!

  • AdLib : Funk – I think what happens is that a generation, like the 60’s/70’s fights a protracted political battle then thinks it’s succeeded…not recognizing that the forces intent on corrupting and controlling our country only regroup to fight another day. As they say in comic books, good vs. evil is the eternal struggle.

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, I disagree completely. I am not talking about an overthrow of government, but more revolutionary tactics to stop the haves from crapping all over the have less.

  • choicelady : Cher – that’s heartening! The Left is Lilliputian sometimes, fighting over which end of the egg to open and missing the bigger picture. What bothers me is the residue of people who think they have the answers, they should be the Messiahs, and that the ‘great unwashed’ (yes, they used that term) should follow them. The problem is that such leaders don’t even know the questions, much less have the answers! So to hear some humility is heartening. What are you reading? I’d like to see who’s out there making sense!

  • Khirad : Exactly my point, AL. No, not a great statement. It’s the what have you done for me lately attitude and selective amnesia – if they were even paying attention in the first place or always just responded to emotional stimuli alone.

  • KillgoreTrout : What are you talking about, the big banks?

  • ChrisR266 : LOL, I have to stop watching SNL Will Farrell Best of when I’m trying to talk to you lovely folks. I keep cracking up…

  • Chernynkaya : AL-Yep, and now the Lefty pundits are getting to too! I’ll post them tomorrow.

  • ADONAI : Revolution is counterproductiv e and often times unnecessary. No one should commit to revolution. It is not a great thing. It is not to be romanticized and idealized. It is a last resort of people who have no other avenue to pursue. I suggest people take their votes more seriously before we speak of revolution. You will not like it.

  • funksands : KT, no doubt, but that wasn’t what I was getting at.

  • AdLib : CHer – When CL talks, I listen! Her insights into organizing and getting things done are invaluable.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, all those issues are forever tied to economics.

  • funksands : Choice, do you think the politically active young people in the 60’s took their eye off the ball? Meaning they stopped caring about economic issues and instead shifted their focus to social, environmental, and military issues? Does my question make sense?

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, I’m talking about a much more aggressive form of revolution.

  • kesmarn : The advantage to being older is that you have nothing much to lose! :lol:

  • AdLib : CL – We, meaning the enlightened folks at The Planet, didn’t need this but the disengaged, emotional voters out there who put the GOP back in power after only a year and a half after watching them destroy the world economy, needed to go through this. EMotional voters have no memory, these saps used 2010 to say, “We’re mad at you Obama!”. So, now they have to be mad at or afraid of the GOP, which they are now, to vote Dem. Not really making a great statement about the intellect of American voters.

  • Chernynkaya : And yet, at all the demonstrations I’ve been to, there is a mix of young and old and MANY in their 30s-40’s.

  • Khirad : That’s it kes, life is complicated, and no, God will not always provide for them. God is where to find sustenance of another sort.

  • choicelady : Chris – I totally agree with you!

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, I don’t doubt that, but there needs to be real confrontation. Occupying the Statehouse was a good move toward that end, but there has to be more. We have to MAKE the MSM notice and report on us.

  • choicelady : Revolution is also an old person’s game – the retirees in my organization kick butt! They are organized, savvy, and willing to work tirelessly to deliver amazing, clear, radical messages of justice and equity. And they are in the thousands!

  • ADONAI : Touche

  • funksands : Typical response from you Adonai.

  • ADONAI : Typical funk. Finding people atypical.

  • funksands : Tell her to drive 10 of her friends to the polls.

  • Chernynkaya : CL– I am reading several from the Left and they are finally saying they need to form alliances with people with whom they may disagree. Like you said all along!

  • kesmarn : I was trying to talk to the younger RW fundies in my family about this. That they were basically voting to destroy their own retirement. (They’re in their 30s) They just glibly answered: “Oh we plan to work until we die anyway.” Do they realize how many things can happen to you along the way?

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: my 23 year old daughter gets it, very well.

  • Khirad : Fair enough. :oops:

  • funksands : Khirad, I don’t consider you typical.

  • Khirad : Speak for yourself funk. I’m under 40 and see what they’re telling seniors on Medicare as a very big fuck you very much to me.

  • choicelady : KT – I work with several radical people who are doing outstanding things and challenging the system at every turn. But this is more like the 30s than the 60s. We don’t need people who are distanced from the impacts to “lead” us as my progressive allies think they should do – we need to listen and follow the people already ON the streets. They get it, they have plans, and we need to show up and ask how we can help. We do NOT need to tell them what they should want and do.

  • KillgoreTrout : chris, I think there needs to be more confrontation. Not just rallies and protest events.

  • funksands : Ad, that’s my hope. I told my mom that the other day and she honestly reacted as if that was the first time she’d thought of it that way. Sigh.

  • funksands : Choice, I think that is very clear to anyone 40-55. I honestly don’t think very many people under 40 have made that connection.

  • Khirad : Well, it was a shock doctrine of another sort, AL. The people were shocked when they learned what was really afoot, that the campaign promises were lies. It never fails, elections are won and lost I think not on issues, but on emotion. For all of us who do vote on issues, we will always be held to the whim of anger or satisfaction of a ‘core’ of capricious indies.

  • AdLib : Funk – But the flaw in Ryan’s plan (which really isn’t his, he’s the face of it but it’s the Koch’s plan) is that they don’t relate to human beings. They saw seniors as a separate demographic. They forgot that they’re parents and grandparents. And if anyone says to a parent or grandparent, “You’ll be totally safe, we’re just going to make your children and grandchildren die younger than you,” that’s not a bribe they’re going to take.

  • KillgoreTrout : The republicans in WI surely must know by now, that they have been royally reemed.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: some would call this the revolution. Finally people understand the consequences of their apathy.

  • kesmarn : The repeal movement is well underway in Ohio too, for that union-busting SB 5.

  • choicelady : funk – people over 55 will NOT get to “keep their stuff” if the people UNDER 55 are pulled out of the system. It’s the “stone soup” principle – you have to have everyone put something into the pot to get what everyone needs: soup. If the younger folks are pulled out and don’t contribute, the older people will have insufficient funds for Medicare to survive. We HAVE to make that clear!

  • ADONAI : No great changes in human society have ever occurred without being preceded by terrible tragedy or widespread suffering. The status quo rules until it is no longer sustainable.

  • Chernynkaya : Soo, Patsy.

  • kesmarn : Good to hear, Chris. People in WI aren’t going to forget this one.

  • ChrisR266 : One of my colleagues works with me in Ohio, but still maintains a residence (and has family) in Madison. Do not be disheartened by the lack of news from there. There will be some titanic changes in WI in November.

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, Dennis Hopper once said that revolution is a young person’s game. It’s difficult for working people to attend rallies and such. Especially those who live paycheck to paycheck.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–understoo d.

  • kesmarn : See you later, Patsy.

  • funksands : Cher, perfect quote for the occasion.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I remember your saying that. You may well be correct however awful it will be until they get voted OUT. But they keep making it worse for ordinary people, and ordinary people are pushing BACK. Maybe we did need this to open people’s eyes.

  • PatsyT : BRB kids to pick up

  • Chernynkaya : Funk–about that over/under 55–brilliant article posted by digby about dividing the baby boomers. You get one group getting the goodies, and the under55 resentful. It had a great quote by Jay Gould: “I could hire half the poor people to kill the other half, he shrugged.”

  • AdLib : Indeed Khirad, we were both expecting this outcome. I’m not surprised at the speed at all, the pattern for corporate pawns being elected is to quickly dive in and change things before anyone can stop them. There is no grand strategy other than brute force. That’s what we’ve seen and that’s what I thought we’d see again. And the public was not going to like it when they learned that the campaign was all a big lie just to get corporate pawns in there to get them more money.

  • kesmarn : Patsy,those bussed-in TBags were really outnumbered in Madison, though, huh?

  • funksands : Chris, I sure hope so. I have my doubts. When a giant block of the population is scared, they make odd choices.

  • Khirad : Everyone agrees, Ryan is a smooth operator. Even so, the clips I’ve seen show people able to call him out on his casuistry. Like that old line that the rich already pay most of the taxes – weep for them.

  • PatsyT : Cher I was thinking about those massive TParty busses that would show up at events so Sarah and friends could have a enormous backdrop of propaganda

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, it’s just a default position. Some say it, in place of “It’s a mystery.”

  • choicelady : KT – as for Angela Davis, etc., I think the real change always comes from working people, not the vanguard. The visible radicals do have a role, but the solid reforms come from below, not from above.

  • ADONAI : choice, Movements come and movements go. There is no more focus. People stop at Starbuck’s on their way to protest the WTO.Environmenta lists seem more concerned with forcing a political philosophy than any actual solutions. Most people don’t protest anymore like they use to. They just attend rallies. But, that is just my opinion.

  • ChrisR266 : Agreed, Funk, but from what I have observed, it’s not working out too well for him. Even the safe ones aren’t buying his snake oil.

  • kesmarn : Chris, yes! Kasich is a tremendous bully. As I’ve mentioned before I don’t think he even cares about getting re-elected. He’s brazen about his agenda: hit and run.

  • bito : True, k’es.

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, we need organizers who are very adept, like Hoffman and Ruben were. But, with the media we have today, organizing is twice as hard. Also, there is no draft.

  • choicelady : KT – Robertson is remarkably quiet about the devastation in AL, one of his strongholds. What is God’s will there?

  • funksands : You have to hand it to Ryan though. He know exactly what he is doing. He is bribing the very demographic most likely to affiliate with the GOP and their views. Everyone OVER 55 gets to keep their stuff. Anyone under goes without. I wonder what seniors will do?

  • kesmarn : b’ito — there are the “young elderly” and the ‘elderly elderly” and they are not the same, no?

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: What disturbs me most is how much of a bully Kasich is in any public forum. Ryan is a bully too, but much more polite about it, as I’ve observed. They just beltline people with their dismissive and arrogant retorts to people who ask genuine questions grounded in real concerns. Bullying is not becoming to any politician in any situation.

  • AdLib : Khirad – It was very ironic to watch Repub Congresspeople urging people not to yell…when they were all part of the machinery behind getting Baggers to townhalls last year to scream and froth at the mouth. Hypocritical weasels.

  • Khirad : Well, AdLib, I foresaw this happening like you, but not this quick of a pushback!

  • bito : :-) some seniors are progressive.

  • ADONAI : There was a great article on The Onion about Mitt Romney trying to distance himself from his sad legacy of providing millions of Americans with affordable lifesaving health care.

  • choicelady : Adonai – I have to disagree about there being on revolutionaries. I see the working people REALLY rising up and focusing on solid issues and demanding a return to democracy and genuine inclusiveness. Those are honest voices of real change!

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–true. But I think these people are organized by themselves–ie, have been motivated by progressive groups. And good for them! That is STILL grassroots. Organized is not the same as astroturf.

  • AdLib : Kes – So kind of you to mention! Khirad was projecting the same too. I wrote an article last fall about how the best thing to happen to the Dems would be for the Repubs to win the House, that all of this madness would unfold and the public would have their memories jogged about why they disliked and voted out Repubs.

  • funksands : Adonai, they will come. If the suffering gets bad enough.

  • kesmarn : Ryan is extremely sharp, Cher, as is Kasich in Ohio. A formidable debater, with a folksy yet aggressive style.

  • bito : Khirad, then Ryan turned around and said “Obamacare”!

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, sadly, you are right.

  • ADONAI : KT, There are no more counter culture revolutionaries. Only Starbuck’s revolutionaries.

  • PatsyT : Cher there hasn’t been any Huge polished fancy diesels pushers wrapped in well placed propaganda parked at these events

  • Chernynkaya : Tomorrow, I am posting how Ryan makes his case at T halls–he’s a pro and scary. You have to really understand shit and know your facts to dispute him.

  • AdLib : Cher – I think it’s a mix. I did hear there were efforts by Progressive groups to urge people to attend Town Halls but some of these people look like regular people, seniors who aren’t going to be bribed into giving up Medicare for their kids and grandkids. Just to give billionaires more tax money!

  • bito : Cher, I asked the same question the other day, are the questioning at the town halls the same people as in the midterms. Buyers remorse?

  • KillgoreTrout : Khirad, Robertson always has “God’s Will,” to fall back on.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, I have to mention to the new people that you called all of this before the 2010 election,and it has played out the way you predicted.

  • Khirad : I loved Ryan urging for civility. Please, that was really tame and *informed* criticism.

  • Chernynkaya : I think so too, but the Left bloggers are saying maybe not.

  • KillgoreTrout : Where are the modern day equivilents of Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin and Angela Davis…etc.

  • kesmarn : I think it’s genuine grassroots, Cher, who adapted the TBag tactics, much to the dismay of people like Ryan.

  • PatsyT : Cher, I think most are on their own!

  • ADONAI : Khirad, excellent point. You never hear Tornado Alley described as “GOD’s Hate Highway”.

  • AdLib : Cher – So true. The earnest Baggers have already been hugely betrayed as the Kochs and other powers in the GOP planned. Use and stir up hatred, racism and outrage to get corporate pawns elected then once in, focus only on serving the wishes of those who bankroleld them. I think there may be a real loss of enthusiasm from Baggers in 2012 from being betrayed so much and possibly having a Romney forced on them. If they’re not highly driven, the Repubs won’t have a prayer of winning.

  • Chernynkaya : And let me add, that organized can also be grassroots!

  • kesmarn : Good point, Khirad. They did all the right things and still the “Finger of God”… What will Robertson have to say about that?

  • Chernynkaya : Do you think that the people speaking out at Town Halls now are grassroots or a combination of grassroots and say, MoveOn?

  • PatsyT : Good One Khirad !

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, yeah, I have seen a few videos of those tornadoes in the south. Fricking scary as hell. I sure wouldn’t want to see one those puppies barreling down on me.

  • Khirad : My question is this. What did the Bible Belt do to piss off God so much? I’m waiting Pat Robertson on this. *crickets*

  • kesmarn : ‘Zactly, Chris and Khirad. The baggers were all so “heroic” when they screamed at Barney Frank…

  • Chernynkaya : I agree AL–that’s why it doesn’t matter what the baggers want, and now that the corps who are the real baggers got their elected frauds, and the Congress is passing their agenda, the real corps behind then baggers have abandoned the TP people.

  • AdLib : Kes – It’s not surprising, Fox is an undisputed propaganda arm for the Repubs so of course they would have a news blackout on a legit grass roots push back at Town Hall meetings against Repubs. I just wish they could be sued for pretending to be a news channel.

  • Khirad : I’m sure FOX will chasten them for being disruptive.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: Trump happened to Fox. Even they can’t spin that shit.

  • choicelady : Well both Chris and KT – stay safe there. The weather is so scary lately. Saw the folks along the Mississippi are bracing for the worst flooding since 1927. So many dead in AL, and now this. As someone here said – good thing there’s no climate change! Think how bad things would be if there were! (That IS a joke.)

  • AdLib : Bito – There are three sets of Baggers as far as I’m aware. The paid-for frauds who head it up and help make it look like there are more followers than there are. The older white racists and the conservative Repubs who have been fooled into believing that it’s genuine and will limit government in a positive way. The latter seem to be a small minority. And overall, they their numbers are quickly shrinking.

  • kesmarn : Notice how all the patriots who are speaking up at town hall meetings now are getting no coverage from Fox News? What happened to their sense of patriotism?

  • ChrisR266 : So, are we talking about the Donald?

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, yeah, it’s been a wet one. Columbus is lucky when it comes to tornados. They almost never strike inside the beltway.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: you’re correct about that. One of the more depressing springs in memory. At least the Trees have stayed in flower an unusually long time.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–they were at a party in the Hamptons. Check it out after.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree about the decline and fall of Baggers. They held a rally here and 36 people showed up. They are so over. But there are still those who share the views, although the blatant disregard for people is beginning to turn even them!

  • Khirad : Thanks funk, it’s not easy being a Blazer fan. It means a lot.

  • kesmarn : Cher I missed the Donald/ David picture.

  • Khirad : Yup, I didn’t pay attention at the time AD, ’cause I never thought Obama would, and clearly, neither did Trump. Bwahaha.

  • funksands : At least you still have a team…..for now….. :-)

  • choicelady : Chris and KT – I hear Spring is mostly an illusion in Ohio this year. Hope you all dry out and stay tornado free!

  • funksands : Khirad, my sympathies for the Blazers…

  • Chernynkaya : Speaking of Kochs–did you see the pic I posted on DP of Donald and David?

  • PatsyT : Hiney Badger LOLOL !! :-)

  • AdLib : Hey Khirad!

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, haha. A Bug.

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Choice: They’re just getting some spring up there. It’s been awfully grey in Ohio this month.

  • kesmarn : Hiney Badger! Yes, Cher!

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–No! We love Honey Badger. But I accidentally typed Hiney Badger. That works for me.

  • ADONAI : Hey Khirad! Did he promise that? man what a douche.

  • funksands : KT, I agree. She-who-must-not -be-named is just sad. Trump is a horrible human. He’s gotta be the roach-filled alien from “Men in Black”.

  • choicelady : Hey Chris – I have friends and family in Youngstown!

  • bito : Sorry, AdLib wrong Forum to get into a discussion of who who exactly the true T-baggers are any more.

  • AdLib : CL – I think the silence from the Baggers is because…there are so few of them. They only get exaggerated in size and power when the Kochs and Fox use their money and power to do so. When they think it’s better to try and let this die down, as they do right now, ain’t it funny how you hear notthing from Baggers. A clear sign it is all a construct controlled by the Repub elites. We all know it is a fraud, it is a bought and paid-for “group” that only does what it’s paid to do.

  • Khirad : All the crazy shit he’s said I totally forgot when he promised to release his financials when Obama released the BC. He got questioned on that and was… oh, well, I’ll release them in good time. Seinfeld is right, you couldn’t invent a punchline like Trump.

  • KillgoreTrout : chris, I’m in Reynoldsburg. Nice to have a Planeteer in close proximity.

  • kesmarn : Patsy, I would say it’s more Honey Badger than Tribble, though.

  • choicelady : kes – you’re absolutely right. They should have had a clue from Alan Simpson who declared Social Security was “a cash cow with 310 million tits”.

  • ADONAI : If Trump picks Shatner as his running mate, I’m voting for him. Can a VP be from a foreign country?

  • KillgoreTrout : cher, I find talking about Trump even more distasteful than talking about Palin. Trump is just a scarecrow.

  • ChrisR266 : Hey KT: where in Central Ohio? I’m in Westerville.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–there you go!!:lol;

  • choicelady : Patsy – speaking of The Donald’s hair – I figured he’d demand THAT be his running mate. Hair for VP. It seems to have a life of its own…

  • kesmarn : Hey, Khirad!

  • ADONAI : AdLib – Their refusal to embrace new technology will not look good when our robot masters become self aware and take over.

  • Chernynkaya : Love thst Funk!

  • AdLib : Bito – Tea Baggers = Baggers.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I think the Baggers voted for folks who promised to rid their communities of parasites. Little knowing that those parasites were them. Now they’re trying to process all that.

  • Chernynkaya : I know you’re all tired of talking trump, but did anyone see the headline at The Onion? “Trump forced to produce documentation that he’s not a festering pile of shit.”

  • funksands : Cher, the Tea Party is the Macarena of politics. Its over.

  • KillgoreTrout : Khirad, me too. Williams is a very bright guy.

  • PatsyT : The secret stash of the Donalds hair «link»

  • ADONAI : funk, I think so. GOD what a show that would be. But I just don’t know if public execution would ever catch on again.

  • AdLib : AD – Republicans don’t believe in science so robots and AI are out. They could have a candidate who mouths a phonograph recording of Reagan at stump speeches though!

  • bito : Ad lib, what do you mean by the “baggers?”

  • Khirad : I’d rather if they were the brainwaves of Robin Williams playing Teddy Roosevelt.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the almost Dead Silence from Baggers makes me wonder if they are not all sitting around, slack jawed, at how they’ve been screwed over. Whether that makes them re-think anything is not clear, but they sure are quiet since their OWN candidates are taking away their Medicare!

  • funksands : Choice, there are certain things that are simply too oddly compelling to resist.

  • kesmarn : They’re (the Baggers) probably wishing Orly T. had been born in the USA.

  • Chernynkaya : But the TP is dying a too-slow death–their polls are bad and even so, they are what-20%?

  • ADONAI : So that’s a no to Reagan-bot? That’s fine. What about some sort of super intelligent AI based on the stored brainwaves of Teddy Roosevelt?

  • bito : Patsy, I just think it need to be in quotes. “The Blacks”

  • funksands : Adonai, those two would realize Carlin’s dream during halftime of the SuperBowl wouldn’t they?

  • AdLib : Cher – The problem with that theory is that the Baggers won’t change, they are immovable racists and haters and losing Trump will only make them want someone else extreme to “pleasure” them. They won’t be satisfied by a Pawlenty, Romney or Daniels.

  • choicelady : Oooo funk – that’s kinda scary. Gary’s not been all together since the TBI while biking. You might want to rethink that?

  • KillgoreTrout : Busey would be a far better choice than Trump. At least Busey cares about his fellow humans.

  • kesmarn : Cher, that’s great!

  • ADONAI : funk, Yeah but only if Sheen is his VP

  • Chernynkaya : I heard him called Id with a dead Tribble on top.

  • funksands : I would vote for Gary Busey. There is a very dark part of me that would do that.

  • KillgoreTrout : Patsy, I also lived in Carlsbad and Escondido. I really like Southern Cal.

  • PatsyT : was

  • PatsyT : I wan thinking like the Donald

  • ADONAI : Meatloaf too!

  • PatsyT : Bito, Sorry how did I get that wrong?

  • Chernynkaya : Well, look at who loves trump–the certifiables: Sheen and gary Busey.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, I can see that.

  • AdLib : Funk – Well, corporations are people. Maybe Exxon/Mobil will be the GOP nominee?

  • funksands : I watched the end of “The China Syndrome” last night. When it was over I thought: “How quaint”.

  • PatsyT : KT link below from the NRC meeting I went to .. Love Oceanside!

  • AdLib : Patsy – Genius! Trump/Sheen 2012 – You’d have to be crazy not to vote for them!

  • ADONAI : Robotic technology has progressed pretty far. There are prototype bots right now that can hold complex conversations without additional programming. It basically “invents” the programming as it goes. So why not Reagan-bot? The savior of the GOP. It doesn’t say anywhere that a robot can’t run for President.

  • Chernynkaya : I heard a worrisome theory about Trump–that after he’s gone, Reeps will gladly accept boring from Pawlwnty and Mitt.

  • bito : Patsy, that’s “The Blacks” ;-)

  • choicelady : KT – it’s insanity to use nukes to boil water anywhere! They cost TWICE what any other system costs, and the danger is all along the fuel extraction, processing, transport, use, and disposal line. Part of the MAJOR cause of smokers’ lung cancer is the ROUTINE emission of tritium from the Aikens, SC nuke that peppers the tobacco for hundreds of miles around. Tritium is a hydrogen “sister” so it gloms onto water molecules in your lungs.

  • kesmarn : Patsy! :lol: (I’m going to get a rubber stamp that says that!)

  • funksands : Ad, they are simply paving the way for a corporation to run for President.

  • KillgoreTrout : Patsy, I used to live just south of there, in Oceanside.

  • PatsyT : How is Charlie Sheen with the blacks?

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–exactly. He called her a fat pig, so fair is fair. And he’s pink too.

  • ADONAI : funk, Amen brother

  • AdLib : You know the GOP is in big trouble when they are all praying for the most popular candidate to get out of the race and praying for someone to appear from nowhere to save them.

  • funksands : Adonai, sunny is a state of mind….

  • KillgoreTrout : choice, we had a nice sunny day here in central Ohio today. But rain is predicted for the the next four days.

  • kesmarn : Cher, the weight thing wouldn’t bother me if he hadn’t been so cruel about Rosie O’Donnell’s weight.

  • Chernynkaya : :lol: He IS Funk–and huge too!

  • ADONAI : Hello funk! How could you be in Seattle? You just said it was sunny. :)

  • PatsyT : KT I hope to put a post together soon On San Onofre – I just have to track down some more local info

  • choicelady : Hi funk – I forget where you are? It’s nice finally in CA but chilly and windy in Sacramento at the moment.

  • bito : C’Lady, I’m always here, ;-) But hello!

  • kesmarn : Sunny in Seattle! Nice!

  • funksands : Cher he’s Yuge.

  • funksands : Metro Seattle

  • Chernynkaya : Let me just add how fat and bloated the Dumpster is now. A fat piggy. I usually don’t criticize a person’s but he’s really gotten porcine.

  • choicelady : To all you wet Southern and Ohio folks – you are in our hearts. I’ve been watching the river rise and it’s scary. Head for the hills if need be!

  • PatsyT : Hey Funk!!

  • KillgoreTrout : As far as nuclear power goes, I think it is just insanity to have a plant anywhere near a major fault line.

  • ADONAI : Storms have been awful. it was bad here but down South just got crushed. My prayers are with them. They lost a lot of people.

  • kesmarn : Where are you again, funk?

  • AdLib : Hey Funk!

  • bito : KT, Tomasky wrote about Trumps racism from the 70’s. It s was linked in MB.

  • funksands : 70 and sunny here Sunday. Nicest day so far in the coldest April we’ve ever had…

  • AdLib : KT – As AD says, scroll down and you’ll see quotes from an article documenting Trump’s racism against “the blacks”.

  • choicelady : bito – did not get to say “howdy” when you arrived. Hope you’re well!

  • kesmarn : I saw that, Chris. More rain Sunday. You should see the river here. Unbelievable.

  • ChrisR266 : Hello all, good to read you this evening.

  • Chernynkaya : Also,this new computer makes me type badly!’

  • ADONAI : KT, yeah. AdLib posted about it earlier. Refusal to rent to black people and some pretty stupid remarks about Jews too. A real class act.

  • choicelady : Hi Chris!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey hey chris and bito.

  • Chernynkaya : Hi bito and chris!

  • ChrisR266 : Kes, Damned straight! I get to mow my soggy 8 inch grass tomorrow before another inch comes on Sunday, LOL.

  • kesmarn : Hey, b’ito!

  • AdLib : Hey Bito!

  • choicelady : bito – funny you should reference Trump and crap in the same line. Kes, Patsy, and I were just talking…

  • PatsyT : Hey Bito and Chris!

  • AdLib : Cher – Yep, I told you we were betting big money.

  • ADONAI : Hello bito and chris!

  • KillgoreTrout : Adonai, I read that there is also a bit of racism in Trump’s past.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Chris! The rain has finally stopped!

  • Chernynkaya : AL HAH!! That’s what I call a big one! (Inflation , I mean–;-)

  • choicelady : Cher – oh, thank GOD/ESS!!!! I was scared to death we’d lost him!!!

  • AdLib : Hey Chris!

  • AdLib : “I’m proud of myself!” As you say Patsy, the only time I’ve heard that phrase is from a toddler making a poop!

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, all.

  • ADONAI : Still…..

  • ADONAI : KT, That’s true. And we know a whole lot more about Trump than we did about Bush that first time around.

  • bito : C’Lady, as you and I have both noted, Trump ha been doing this same thing since the 80’s, this is not news.This is cable crapp

  • Chernynkaya : OH CL–no–he was scheduled for a vacation weeks ago.

  • choicelady : PAtsy – esactly! Even your poop is a major achievement of the privileged kiddos!!!

  • AdLib : Cher, I’ll even let you hold it: «link»

  • Chernynkaya : AD–that’s my take too.

  • KillgoreTrout : True, but I see Trump as being even more ridiculous than Bush was. At least W had the Bush name to advance him.

  • kesmarn : Patsy! :lol:

  • choicelady : Cher – oh no! LO is in the doghouse for being HONEST??? That is horrible!!!!

  • PatsyT : Donald such a Big Boy! look at that fine poo poo you made! You should be very proud of yourself

  • AdLib : Cher – Thanks for the info on LO.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–I forget–does that mean I win a buck? IF Trump doesn’t run> :-)

  • choicelady : AdLib – wow – I had not watched so did not know LO was not on. MSNBC better NOT get rid of LO!!!!

  • AdLib : Cher – I honestly don’t think he’ll run, this was all about greedily grabbing the spotlight I think. He may even announce so he can be in a coouple of debates but I think he’d drop out, he’s not serious but he’s just tainted the whole GOP with his lies and racism.

  • ADONAI : I found it hard to believe most people took bush seriously. Then, 4 years later, I REALLY found it difficult to believe most Americans took Bush seriously. Lesson: Never underestimate America.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–Chris Hayes said in Twitter that he has been scheduled to host for weeks.

  • kesmarn : I know people who are really hoping he’ll run 3rd party and split the RW vote.

  • choicelady : Patsy – Robert Coles, the noted child psychologist who’s written about kids in many situations did one, “Children of Privilege”. He could have been describing The Donald. Raised to believe they ARE superior, they have no sense of other people’s value at all and thus no shame even when they look like a horse’s ass to the rest of us. We just don’t matter to him.

  • PatsyT : And we will be very surprised !

  • KillgoreTrout : I just find it hard to believe that a majority of Americans take Trump seriously.

  • ADONAI : Patsy, HA! Yes he will.

  • Chernynkaya : dLib–even Fox dissed him after his F-bomb speech in LV, and the RR is thru with him.

  • ADONAI : Very true KT. The Republicans have nothing. Trump is the only thing keeping them in the news on the Presidential side.

  • AdLib : CL – Any coincidence that LO wasn’t on his show the last two days?

  • PatsyT : What ever he does he will be very very proud of himself

  • Chernynkaya : I think they don’t know if he’s gonna run, so they won’t announce.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think Trump is a major diversion from the fact that the GOP has such a poor choice of candidates. He is also most likely just a money maker for the RNC.

  • choicelady : kes – that is just TOO funny! I have to say I don’t drink Coke, but I do believe everyone on the sugar vs. corn syrup stuff. How could it NOT taste better?

  • AdLib : Cher – Heh, you know where I am on Trump not running as a Repub. He wouldn’t get press or be in any debates during primary season, don’t see why he’d abandon the party that has him at the top of the polls.

  • kesmarn : intended!

  • kesmarn : c’lady, CostCo people must have wondered if the pharmacy was carrying a new “line” pun inended.

  • ADONAI : Coke is pretty universal. it is literally the official soft drink of China.

  • choicelady : Cher – LO last night demanded that NBC say whether The Donald is renewing his show. This morning’s paper indicated they’re still hedging. I wonder if they are planning to dump him but don’t want to say so?

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, Kes–and Groupon? Ya’ll got that too?

  • KillgoreTrout : There is even a Coke bottling plant in what used to be Saigon.

  • Chernynkaya : I think he may run as an Indie, but I’m still not sure he’ll run.

  • ADONAI : Trump will run as long as he polls high. They all do. As long as he is, I say yes.

  • choicelady : kes – your son must have sent people up a wall waiting for the drug thugs to arrive! How funny!

  • AdLib : Kes – Mexico does do Cokes right! But in Europe, same thing, sugar and not corn syrup in Coke.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Cher! I just mentioned your article on Trump’s made-in-China line of suits.

  • ADONAI : I should say it’s The only time you’ll see Donald Trump and professional ethics in the same sentence without the words “breach of” being somewhere in between

  • choicelady : Adonai – LOL!!! Only link of The Donald and ethics in the same sentence!!! Lovely!

  • AdLib : So, despite everything including proof now that he’s racist and a draft dodger and a liar…who here thinks Trump will run?

  • KillgoreTrout : I don’t put much stock in anything Trump says. Although he has stirred up the birthers once more. I think they are a very minimal concern.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, we went to CostCo at my son’s request for that soda without HF corn syrup. You should have seen the looks when we asked for “Mexican Coke.”

  • choicelady : Hi Cher!!!

  • ADONAI : jinx?

  • choicelady : All – somewhere I missed the professinal ethics part. I do agree – good people serve everyone, no matter what.

  • ADONAI : Hey Cher!

  • PatsyT : Hey Cher!

  • AdLib : Hey Cher!!!

  • ADONAI : The only time you’ll see Donald Trump and professional ethics in the same sentence.

  • Chernynkaya : Howdy!

  • kesmarn : Let’s see, KT. Nuclear power, Don Trump and professional ethics — simultaneously!

  • KillgoreTrout : Good to see you choice.

  • ADONAI : KT, Donald Trump and boycotts I believe

  • AdLib : Kes – Yes, the corn syrup poisoning of America is a whole other topic, nice to see some companies spending a penny more on real sugar. That’s what’s great about buying soda in other countries, you can get Cokes made with sugar not corn syrup and they taste so much better. Still, too much sugar ain’t great for you either!

  • choicelady : Bon soir, KT! We’re talking boycotts of The Apprentice advertisers. AdLib – the idea of Farouk, name of a Saudi royal, being a beauty system for women when Saudi women cover themselves head to toe is just BIZARRE!!!!

  • ADONAI : kes, that’s my feeling too. Most ethical people honor that job whether they care for the person or not.

  • KillgoreTrout : What is the topic at hand?

  • PatsyT : AdLib, that is exactly what happened!

  • KillgoreTrout : Good evening kes.

  • KillgoreTrout : Como esta, AL and Adonai.

  • kesmarn : Hey, KT!

  • kesmarn : I think decent cops and the military defend people all the time that they may not personally like. Nurses take good care of people they don’t always personally like (if they’re ethical that is!)

  • ADONAI : Thanks for the link AdLib. Those chics are hot!

  • AdLib : Hey Killgore!

  • ADONAI : Hola KT!

  • AdLib : Link to Farouk: «link»

  • choicelady : kes – be brave! There are other bleaches,some with lovely scents! You have options!

  • KillgoreTrout : Good evening Planeteers.

  • ADONAI : thank you choice! and you are right. i should get an email or two out their way

  • choicelady : AdLib – what the hell is “Farouk Systems”?

  • AdLib : Patsy – I get it. Take up all the time they can from the meeting, dull people over with long boring monologues then people won’t be so angry, just tired. And, aw, we’re out of time, one more question is all we have time for.

  • kesmarn : Not Clorox Bleach….! Say it ain’t so…!

  • ADONAI : Do you have to care for people to protect or take care of them? if you had a strong sense of duty, and were charged with defending people, would it be paramount that you like them? Or is being honor bound by your duty enough?

  • kesmarn : Ad, they make Dr. Pepper now with real sugar, not high fructose corn syrup. That’s a little step in the right direction…?

  • choicelady : Adonai – just hang tough a bit longer. We will get them to pull out of the show’s sponsorship, and you can resume your consumption. If you write and TELL them the sacrifice you’re making, it actually WILL matter! You’re their biggest fan – and your principles are calling you to set Dr. Pepper aside until they stop! (And if you sneak a couple, we will NOT blame you or turn you in.)

  • AdLib : FYI: Here’s a compacted list of Trump’s Apprentice sponsors: CELEBRITY APPRENTICE SPONSORS (h/t: eman, heymister, et al.) Dr Pepper/Seven Up/Snapple Group, Omaha Steaks, On-Star, Australian Gold, Camping World, ACN, Farouk Systems, Enterprise Rental Car Company, Clorox Bleach Company, Sprint-Nextel Cellphones, Bristol-Myers Squibb, The Walt Disney Company, Groupon

  • PatsyT : AdLib, That meeting really opened my eyes- Those SONGS employees all applauded on que when they took F O R E V E R to introduce the panel (they try to bore your brain out to get you to leave) and then the Corporate monotone powerpoint again applause at these L A M E not funny jokes about the lights in the room or the overhead screen.. Uggg I can see the plot!

  • kesmarn : And Catholics can swear like fucking bloody hell, too, c’lady. Not that I ever would….

  • ADONAI : Seriously though, I hope Dr. Pepper pulls their sponsorship. i really, REALLY like Dr. Pepper. It’s bad for me, i know, but I gotta have it.

  • choicelady : The choicelady/Churc hlady swears…

  • ADONAI : Hooray!!!!

  • choicelady : DumpDTrump? Beautiful! You know, before this he was just a twit. Now he’s dangerous. He shoulda shut the fuck up. (That’s for YOU, Adonai.)

  • kesmarn : Patsy DumpDTrump has a nice ring to it. Humpty-Dumpty DumpDTrumpee.

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, I’ve read articles about how spills and releases of radiation are simply not reported. And in virtually every case of a nuclear incident, it is underplayed and covered up as to the severity by the plant owners. Look at Japan, the owners kept the severity covered up for as long as they could…before US and international entities stepped in to measure.

  • choicelady : I have a current reservation to rent from Enterprise. I will cancel it and take another car instead then write to Enterprise and TELL them I cancelled and why. It’s hard to boycott the rest – I don’t use ANY of those products. Oh, well – they don’t need to know that.

  • PatsyT : Now I like the boycott Trump stuff It’s about time! there is one on twitter DumpDTrump

  • ADONAI : pardon me while I go fill it out

  • AdLib : Here’s another boycott Trump petition at Change.org, they’ve got 2,000 signatures so far: «link»

  • kesmarn : Speaking of the Trump boycott: I saw that Cher posted an article about the fact that Trump’s line of business suits is made in China. This after he has been bashing China for months!

  • PatsyT : YeP AdLib and they real cost is being hidden from the tax payers

  • ADONAI : Dr. Pepper is on the list?! Crap. Looks like it’s back to Mr. Pibb.

  • choicelady : Patsy – I once wrote a paper on the hidden stories of nuclear accidents (pre-1976)and discovered there are accidents DAILY at not so much the San Onofres and Diablo Canyons but at the processing and disposal sites. There are emissions, leaks, spills, and thefts REGULARLY from both commerical nukes and their supply operations.

  • AdLib : AD – Exactly! Here’s a Boycott Trump thread at DK: «link»

  • ADONAI : choice, That is fantastic. You just have to know your audience and be respectful to it.

  • kesmarn : Ad, I like the way Obama uses slang sometimes, though. The other day he was talking about how not everyone could afford a hybrid car and “scraping a few dollars together to put gas in the ole beater” was hard. He knows what the common citizen goes through.

  • PatsyT : AdLib This will be a huge issue It is just getting started and no I don’t have a mountain bike.

  • choicelady : Adonai – you would have loved our past Senate Pres. Pro Tem John Burton who did a five-minute riff on why it’s not wrong to say “fuck” if you don’t direct it AT anyone. He did this in front of the Sacramento Press Club. We were in stitches, but it was a story that could NOT be reported!

  • AdLib : Patsy – The 5 and PCH for hundreds of thousands of residents? Hope you have a mountain bike.

  • ADONAI : Al – No it is not. Most times it just takes a simple signature or a few seconds to fill out an online petition. An easy and productive way to be a part of this democracy.

  • PatsyT : AdLib only the 5 really oh yea the PCH Those two will take care of the Walmart and Albertsons parking lots but what about the rest of us?

  • ADONAI : I wish more politicians would swear. it makes them human. But you can’t just throw it out anywhere. It’s childish.

  • AdLib : AD – It’s up to us and the rest of the public to organize boycott protests against his advertisers. That’s not a tough thing to do.

  • kesmarn : YES! c’lady. She was weird. That crazy grin and the inappropriate laughter. Something not right under that blonde wig.

  • choicelady : Patsy – it is scary how many people who are at risk in nuke plants just deny. One guy who was a “Love Canal Denier” was fomenting about Lois Gibbs and her findings of cancer rates there. As an aside he happened to note HE had cancer, but he brushed it off as ridiculous to connect that to his living next to Love Canal. Cleopatra syndrome.

  • AdLib : Patsy – I think the many issues from having to abandon their homes to the radiation issue and the mayhem that such an emergency would create, should be focused on. With the freeway locked up in case of an emergency, how would they get away?

  • choicelady : kes – wasn’t Orly scary weird on LO???? But that did not stop her. NOTHING will stop her OR Trump.

  • PatsyT : Choice Lets just say – Obedient corporate servants

  • ADONAI : If more and more advertisers ask NBC to stop running their ads during The Donald’s TV shows, and on their websites featuring his content, he will disappear. TV companies want money. If your foolishness starts costing them money, they’ll send you on your way. Just ask Glenn Beck.

  • kesmarn : Run, Donnie, run!!

  • choicelady : AdLib – YES – please Mr. Donald – RUN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!

  • kesmarn : Orly looked like a genuine psychotic on Lawrence O’Donnell. Not only the speech content,but the grinning, giggling demeanor.

  • AdLib : CL – Trump was in Vegas today, speaking to Baggers and made a bundle of crude comments including a number of “fuck”s and calling everyone in government “stupid”. He’s trying to grab for all the hateful racists now and the public isn’t going to embrace that. He was overshadowed by the Royal Wedding though, which probably pissed him off. Please run, Trump!

  • choicelady : Patsy – kinda gives one pause that people who work in nukes are bald!!!! Are their teeth falling out, too? Yikes!

  • choicelady : Patsy – Rochelle has worked in San Diego with San Onofre issues so there are folks on the ground who know her well.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I like “Taints”. Nice touch!

  • PatsyT : Choice, Thanks! I think this need group here needs a little more organizing and coordination The residents here are getting hip with the reality that they would have no home value if there is even a minor glitch and UGGG they had that meeting packed with Employees of the plant- My daughters wanted to know why so many of the from the plant were bald.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I did not know that Groupon pulled out! Huzzah!

  • ADONAI : I think Trump is planning his next sideshow. if he wants to keep cresting, he can’t keep on the “birther” thing. It’s all a matter of what crazy idea he has next.

  • AdLib : CL – He and Taints (purposeful SP) didn’t acknowledge it but the public gets it. Trumps shift to blatant racism resulted in Groupon canceling advertising on his show’s site and that’s just the beginning. He’s “Tainted” now.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I guess Trump has been quiet, but I think it’s because he’s been overshadowed by the royal wedding, not for his lack of loudmouthing.

  • AdLib : AD – You bet, he can afford tons of accountants to hide his money and maximize his benefits from bankruptcy. You wouldn’t have that luxury.

  • choicelady : Everyone – I don’t see that The Donald had a moment of shame about the birth certificate. Like Orly Taitz, he just shifted the topic. She’s onto the President’s Selective Service records (as if she could HAVE them – they’re not public) and he’s onto “no Black man could have gone to Harvard if they wouldn’t have ME, The Donald.” They have no scruples or shame, either of them.

  • kesmarn : Yes, he really looked sheepish (even for him) after that. Is it just me or has he been verry quiet the last day or so?

  • AdLib : I agree Kes, was about to write that. Obama’s BC proved Trump to be a total fraud to the majority of Americans. He’s permanently tainted now, all one has to do is mention “birth certificate” in any campaign if he runs, when he makes any other claim or promise.

  • ADONAI : AL – And I bet he was barely penalized for it too. if I file bankruptcy to avoid creditors, I doubt I’m gonna come out so great. Pays to be rich I guess. Literally.

  • kesmarn : The whole birth cert thing really made Trump look like a fool, though. So that helps.

  • choicelady : Patsy the alliance web site is a4nr.org. Rochelle Becker is a friend. I’ll have AdLib put us in touch offline so I can give you more.

  • AdLib : Patsy – I read the article, no insurance company will give them a policy so if there is a disaster…then the State of CA and the U.S. government (taxpayers) cover that but they keep their profits. Sounds like American capitalism to me.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, sorry I stepped away for a sec there. Yes, Trump and W are so similar. It makes me a little nervous…

  • ADONAI : Well, if things hold to form, Trump’s lead in early straw polls should mean that he will lose the first and second primaries in embarrassing fashion.

  • AdLib : AD – He used bankruptcy to rip off his creditors after losing money by being a bad businessman. Then he just started over again with the money he had shielded.

  • PatsyT : AdLib, One of the questioners brought up insurance … Oooo big bunch of corporate speak followed that Oh Well I will try to put a post together on this but I wan tto get those transcripts first.

  • ADONAI : AL – That’s what I don’t get. he has all these bankruptcies yet I hear he’s worth almost a billion dollars or more. How much was he worth before all that?! Just how many people did he cheat to get there?!

  • AdLib : And both feel superior to most Americans?

  • AdLib : Kes – Is it a coincidence that both were born with silver spoons in their mouths and both are self-centered bullies who have no empathy for other people?

  • ADONAI : Did I mention he’s very rich?

  • kesmarn : He and Dubya must have gone to the same school of financial management. The Dubai Institute of Overspending?

  • AdLib : Patsy, the thing is, not so many appreciates how important it is to get ahead of the nuclear issue BEFORE a major earthquake makes it too late.

  • kesmarn : I think only an angry, white, middle-aged, not too bright male could identify with Trump. If even then…

  • AdLib : AD – Yes, Trump was handed his wealth by his father, he is NOT a self-made man and he has run his businesses into the ground repeatedly, claiming bankruptcy again and again. In other words, he is the GOP front runner.

  • PatsyT : Choice I would love any links and such I am building an info file to help the cause – Hey we had lots of news there I was interviewed by Japan News NHK

  • AdLib : What bewilders me is how ANYONE could take him seriously. He is a serial liar and fraud and prides himself on stealing. Remember his made-up story about taking money from Gadaffi but not providing the space he rented. Committing fraud is something to crow about? It is for Baggers.

  • kesmarn : OMG! He manages to insult Black folk and Jews in the same sentence. Oy! No wonder he has bad feelings about Rosie. Apparently the name O’Donnell has “baggage.”

  • ADONAI : Didn’t Trump just pick up his dad’s business and then turn it into a fucking disgrace?

  • choicelady : AdLib – oh goodie – he’s anti-Semitic, too. Man – he deals in ONLY stereotypes and slurs, doesn’t he?

  • choicelady : kes – are you sure he thinks of them as “people”???

  • AdLib : More: “In 1991, Trump was accused of making racial slurs against black people in a book written by John R. O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, called “Trumped!” O’Donnell wrote that Trump once said, in reference to a black accountant at Trump Plaza, “laziness is a trait in blacks.” He also told O’Donnell: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.””

  • choicelady : AdLib – OMG – I had not known Trump had that ad. Man – he’s scary.

  • kesmarn : Or “You People” as Trump would probably also phrase it, c’lady.

  • AdLib : More from that article: “After the rape of a white female jogger in Central Park in 1989, Trump aroused controversy in New York’s black community when he took out full-page newspaper ads calling for the death penalty for the African-American teenage suspects — who were all later exonerated. One of the defendant’s lawyers, Colin Moore, compared Trump’s stance to the racist attitudes expressed in the 1930s during the infamous “Scottsboro Boys” case.”

  • ADONAI : Evenin’ choice, that’s a good fight to be a part of.

  • choicelady : AdLib – why am I not surprised The Donald wouldn’t rent to Black people. Oh, ‘scuse me: The Blacks.

  • AdLib : CL, you are amazing!

  • kesmarn : Hi,c’lady!

  • AdLib : Hi CL!

  • PatsyT : Hey Choice!

  • choicelady : Evening y’all. Hope everyone is well? Picked up the thread about nukes – been fighting them since 1975. Great folks in SLO working on it. Even got the REPUBLICAN state senator to hold the line AGAINST expansion. Rochelle Becker heads the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility there – amazing good work being done. I help out as I am able.

  • ADONAI : Then i gotta say that he is totally racist.

  • PatsyT : I need to get transcripts of the questioners I had to run kids to dance class in the middle of the meeting

  • kesmarn : Whooops, I posted a comment and it vanished. Might have to do that cache clearing thingy! BRB

  • AdLib : AD – Here is the headline: “Donald Trump Was Once Sued By Justice Department For Not Renting To Blacks “

  • PatsyT : Hey Kes Hey ADNOAI

  • ADONAI : Hello kes

  • PatsyT : Our San Clemente Mayor Lori Doncheck (conservative) Came out blazing about how since the tragedy in Japan the city council meeting here in San Clemente are overloaded with residents and business owners wanting to see San Onofre shut down!

  • ADONAI : Is Trump really racist or just another kind of horrible person? is he knowingly race baiting people to garner attention and approval knowing full well it’s all B.S.

  • AdLib : BTW, hi Kes!

  • AdLib : Patsy attended a protest for San Onofre, her link below gives a rundown. That plant is on a fault line!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Patsy and AdLib, are you ridding CA of nuclear power plants?

  • AdLib : Hey Adonai!

  • AdLib : Just a bit ago, read about Trumps history of racism.

  • ADONAI : Hello?

  • AdLib : Well done, Patsy!

  • AdLib : Still reading…brb…

  • AdLib : Checking it out, brb…

  • PatsyT : Various views posted here «link»

  • AdLib : Great.

  • PatsyT : Hold on I have some links

  • AdLib : Thanks for the heads up on it, been slammed and couldn’t make it. What were the highlights…or lowlights?

  • PatsyT : Still cleaning my ears out from the NRC meeting in SJC last night… That corporate speak is mind numbing!

  • AdLib : Things are okay, hoping for one relaxing day this weekend, I’m pooped!

  • AdLib : Hey Patsy! How are you doing tonight?

  • PatsyT : How are things?

  • PatsyT : Hey AdLib,

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive.

  • AdLib : Vox Populi begins tonight at 7:00 pm. Hope to see you then!

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