Vox Populi – 12-17-2010

AdLib : Night!

AdLib : The public has such a corporately-crea ted short attention span, that would be hard to change.

kesmarn : If only we could get the public off their roller coaster, AdLib! Good night again!

AdLib : Night all and thanks for another enjoyable and intriguing edition of Vox Populi! Have a great weekend Kes and Patsy!

AdLib : hey, there are even Repubs who want to bring back child labor! This is a brief phase and the fickle public will swing back away from these nutjob Repubs. It’s amazing how Repubs have no memory for what happened two years ago as well, how their extremism alienated the public. All the better for us.

kesmarn : I hear you, Patsy. I must call it a day, too. Hope everyone has a fun weekend! Thanks for another great Vox!

PatsyT : Say folks I am fading So I will have to bid you good night… Have a wonderful Weekend!

AdLib : Patsy – Saw him and his game was so obvious. He didn’t even look like he bought what he was saying. It’s all getting so hard to say with a straight face anymore.

kesmarn : The only kind of certainty those guys would settle for, Patsy, is guaranteed 0% tax rate for eternity and a return to a minimum wage of $.40/hr.

AdLib : Kes – That’s all inside baseball BS for the 2%ers. The 98% are too busy trying to get through these times, by the time they do, they’re not going to blame themselves for it. I don’t think such efforts will be successful.

kesmarn : The whole world lost respect for us under Bush, and who could blame them? But the RW frames it as a sort of mindless anti-Americanism . “They hate our freedoms.” Idiocy.

PatsyT : AdLib, that Instook guy from Heritage Foundation was on one of the shows today going on about how they still need to get rid of uncertainty! Someone needs to tell these boys to put on their big boy pants and man up!

AdLib : Who is pining for the Bush days of lies, war, corruption, torture and a crashing economy? He will be seen as our most destructive president, especially because of the critical time when he was president and pushed America over the cliff.

kesmarn : They either forget or re-write history. Even history that people should be able to remember, dammit! Krugman wrote a column yesterday about how the RW is re-framing the financial collapse in terms that absolve Wall St. totally and blame govt and the poor for it.

AdLib : Obama was elected, we woke up from our nightmare but we still remember it. The Swing Voters, not so much.

kesmarn : Sometimes I think all they comprehend is: Bush=stock market up

AdLib : Bush was a nightmare and too many in America don’t seem to be able to remember their dreams.

kesmarn : Patsy, it truly was one of those “Why? Why?” moments…only it lasted for years

AdLib : Patsy – It seems like a probability to me. Add all those advantages on Obama’s side, along with him appearing as the reasonable adult and the GOP appearing as the lunatic radicals, it seems headed in that direction. I mean, with nearly 10% unemployment and losing the midterms, he’s STILL polling to beat all Repub nominees.

PatsyT : Kes when they read that Supreme Court decision, I cried like a baby I could not stop. I had to go in the other room so I would not frighten my kids.

kesmarn : I hear, though, that we need to keep an eye on cities and states that are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Could be round two of some financial issues…

PatsyT : Ooo I like that AdLib

AdLib : I agree, I appreciate the feelings of Dems who feel disappointed but come 2012, with all Obama’s remarkable accomplishments and the economy improving, I think he will be re-elected and maybe, Dems retake the House.

kesmarn : AdLib…8 years of Gore…it makes me weep to think what might have been. Instead we got George the Wrecking Ball.

PatsyT : I hope that Wiki dude is listening … what am I kidding of course he is

kesmarn : In this area there are some “green shoots” at last. The GM transmission plant here is actually talking about adding a night shift! And I’ve seen some “help wanted” signs out there! If the jobs start coming back, I think Obama will have a cakewalk.

AdLib : Kes – So true, those elections were stolen. We should have had 8 years of a Gore presidency instead of Bush. Hate to think about it but imagine how different things would be if we never went to war in Iraq, had the Bush tax cuts, torture, etc.

PatsyT : How about a little story on election rigging? and the Supreme Court

AdLib : As mentioned below, the TP and GOP are powered by anger. Well, anger is not eternal, it eventually explodes or diffuses and has a way of turning on itself.

kesmarn : When you consider that the 2000 and 2004 elections were likely stolen, I have to say this has been a totally crazy decade for American politics.

PatsyT : Well there is the Bachman Botox scandal. The Issa is a crook affair. The Palin is a fake story

AdLib : Jinx and no tag backs!

AdLib : Consider the last three elections, 2006, 2008 and 2010, all reflected dismay at those in power. The Dems benefited in the first two elections because they were out of power. Now, the Repubs are being presented as being powerful and in control of the agenda. 2012 will not let them off the hook.

kesmarn : We are a jinxy bunch on Vox! Patsy, the MSM will go where the drama is, and I think TPers in Congress will give ’em plenty!

PatsyT : Kes that would be sweet for the Wiki dude to get after huffy po

PatsyT : You Two jinx!

PatsyT : OK so maybe this means that there are some real boogie men and women (Bachman) to go after and they can let up on Obama

kesmarn : Me too, Patsy. And the Wiki dude could put his talents to good use with the RWers and the banks and Wall Street and HuffyPo…

AdLib : Patsy – Me too but the Swing Voters seem to think that only Repubs are allowed to be aggressive in their political ads.

AdLib : I think that all these lemmings need is a gentle push off the cliff and they’ll all follow each other over the edge. The power they’ll have in the House is just the push they’ll need.

PatsyT : I liked that Taliban Dan Ad!

kesmarn : The only thing the TP has going for it is a muddled sort of “Are you mad? We’re mad! Join us!” appeal…there’ s no “there” there.

AdLib : Patsy, yes but Grayson was way ahead until his “Taliban Dan” ad, then he tanked. It’s nuts.

PatsyT : Can’t we get that Wiki dude to pick on the Repubs and their campaign cash and trash?

AdLib : What does the GOP stand for without the TP? They are a de facto minority party without the TP…but in order to keep the monster they created on their team, they have to become just like it. How is that sustainable? I just don’t see it.

kesmarn : And the thing is, AdLib, Grayson was pretty darn close to the truth with that ad. His opponent was quite Taliban-ish!

PatsyT : AdLib, isn’t that one of the races that they poured the most money into?

kesmarn : Are you Ralph’s agent, Patsy? Smart girl!

AdLib : Look at what happened to Alan Grayson, he aired a GOP type attack ad and lost his lead in the polls and his seat. Meanwhile, Repubs everywhere did the same and some won handily. It’s a double standard that’s absurd.

kesmarn : Ohhhh. That would be so wonderful, AdLib. Lennon: “Imagine no RWers…it’s easy if you try…”

PatsyT : Ralph might be available for the right $$$$ and a personal trailer

AdLib : I don’t know, the GOP has no party without the TPs. Live by the sword, die by the sword, I think they will go down with the TP ship because there’s nowhere else for them to go.

kesmarn : Starring Ralph!

PatsyT : Kes that line should be in a movie

kesmarn : Total double standard. “You act like a grown up, while I rob this here bank, OK?”

AdLib : It seems to be a given that Repubs and Fox are expected to act irresponsibly and encourage hatred. But let a liberal entity be seen as doing so and its an outrage.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib…and hopefully it will become impossible for the Repubs to maintain their vaunted “united front” when these TP people get really cranked up. They’re going to have to distance themselves from them.

AdLib : Kes – Obama can veto anything. And the Dems, weak as they are, still run the Senate. So no radical bills are going to pass Congress and be signed by Obama into law. However, gridlock can do a lot of damage, indeed.

kesmarn : Patsy, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to discover he was a Fox and/or Limbaugh fan.

PatsyT : Kes I heard he was into conspiracy theories- Fox watcher perhaps?

AdLib : Kes – Only the status quo Repubs are acting, there are legit GOP loons in the House and Senate. Emboldened by the election, they will be showing their true colors proudly and the public will sour quickly on them and the TP.

kesmarn : I guess what I’m saying is, I hope not too much damage is done in the process of the RW revealing itself in all its lunacy.

kesmarn : The thing is, some people haven’t figured out the the RW is acting, AdLib. This guy who brought a gun into the Florida school board meeting took things a little too seriously…

AdLib : That’s it, Kes. The GOP is oblivious that it’s been treated like an irrelevant teenager. Now, having power in the House, their lunacy will be taken seriously. I really believe that we will see the GOP self-destruct in the public’s eyes over the next 2 years just as they did in 1994. I mean, they’re even more extremist and hateful today, even openly racist! Just a matter of time and it won’t take too much of that. By Summer 2011, I’ll bet the GOP is polling very badly.

kesmarn : Yes, it’s easy to be nutty when you don’t have responsibility for anything…just ask any 17 year old.

AdLib : Night Bito, sleep well my friend!

kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! Give that temptress pillow a good hug…sleep well.

PatsyT : Hey Bito You have a wonderful Nighty night!

AdLib : Here’s my take, the RW is so clueless. They’ve got a temporary pass to act as crazy as they want since they weren’t in power and they don’t realize it. They’re going to keep acting crazier and crazier, thinking it’s not an issue than be completely bewildered when the public turns on them.

bito : I had a small celebration last night. My bed is ‘giving me a come hither look.’ I may be reading , but I must say my good nights all. peace.

kesmarn : And yet when O’Reilly dons his long white robe with the pointy hat he thinks he looks quite dashing!

PatsyT : They are living it up now because they know deep in their heart where they are going.

AdLib : Was George Orwell a satirist?

PatsyT : Its the long white robes they look a little too musliny

AdLib : In the name of protecting Christianity.

kesmarn : O’Reilly would crucify him.

PatsyT : Ha Ha that God What a cut up!

AdLib : If Jesus came back today, Bill O’Reilly would call him a pinhead and claim he doesn’t respect Christian values.

kesmarn : “Blessed are the rich in stock options, for they shall purchase the Kingdom of Heaven”?

AdLib : God had mentioned to me, “I don’t know who Franklin is talking to but my area code ain’t 666.”

kesmarn : O’Reilly…you have to wonder how in the world he could think he channels Jesus!

bito : can Fux get anymore bizarre?

PatsyT : from

PatsyT : Hey I read that is for the book of Hateicus!

PatsyT : God is probably not impressed either

kesmarn : Yes, Patsy, I’m not into revival/altar call/camp meeting type of events, but Billy I think was sincere. Franklin…maybe not.

AdLib : Amazing how people following a religion based on the teachings of Christ can be so hateful. Did you catch Bill O’Reilly’s absurd claim that Jesus would oppose giving to the needy? Jesus would oppose Unemployment Insurance extensions, according to Bill.

bito : I don’t think Billy would be pleased with frankie.

PatsyT : Yes Kes I would say the Billy have some good stuff going for him I went to one of his Stadium Events when I was a teen

kesmarn : Patsy, I’m cool with Billy Graham, but his son Franklin is another story entirely.

PatsyT : Oh I guess I just don’t travel in those circles

bito : hey, I just asked.

AdLib : A RW hate monger.

AdLib : Billy Graham’s son.

AdLib : No, but I did stick my finger in an electrical socket.

kesmarn : Love those poll results! Yes! And no, have never watched her show.

PatsyT : Oh thats a new name to me ????

kesmarn : That trip to Haiti freaked me out. Not because I thought the Haitians would be harmed by her (although, haven’t they suffered enough?) but because she linked up with crazy Franklin Graham.

PatsyT : NO

bito : Has anyone watched her program?

PatsyT : Can you tell this bit of news really bothers me!

AdLib : The NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found Obama with a 55 percent to 33 percent lead over Palin, and a 47-percent to 40-percent lead over Romney. The survey also found Obama with a 47-percent to 27-percent lead over the relatively unknown South Dakota Senator John Thune.

kesmarn : She wouldn’t shoot ’em for fur or fashion…now, for the sheer, unmitigated pleasure of watching them die…? She is a sicko!

PatsyT : If I feel a little down I just think about how glad I am for the 08 election outcome.

bito : What were her last poll numbers? 28%?

AdLib : Patsy – That’s hilarious! No matter how discouraged we are by the masses, they still recognize Palin as a nutjob.

kesmarn : “But I’m perfectly okay with other people doing it.”?

PatsyT : Palin want a moosey.. Palin on GMA, “[I] would never shoot an animal for its fur or for fashion”. In the background, a bearskin rug complete with head. «link»

AdLib : Goo goo a joob.

kesmarn : My raccoon is a Morman.

AdLib : I am the walrus.

AdLib : My hedgehog is named Norman.

kesmarn : “Polly want a doobie?”

PatsyT : LOL

bito : My parrot ate pot.

kesmarn : My father smelled of elderberries.

AdLib : My hamster drinks Kahlua.

kesmarn : What cake? [Wipes crumbs from front of blouse.]

PatsyT : My dog has a chewy rawhide

kesmarn : Not Margret of the Steel Ruler on the Knuckles!!! Nooooo!

AdLib : Gimmie some of Khirad’s cake then!

bito : K’es!! I’ telling Sister Mary Margret!!!

AdLib : Damn! And I left the crust for last!

kesmarn : That’s our story and we’re sticking to it.

PatsyT : Ha Ha

kesmarn : Cher ate it and then left.

AdLib : Where’s my pie?

kesmarn : My mother in law had that, b’ito. She cooked Thanksgiving dinner for the family (didn’t know she had it at that point) and was gone by Jan 16. That fast.

PatsyT : Thats not the full show, if I find that later I will post it in OT – I have a whole new love for SW!

kesmarn : Thanks, Patsy! You’re quick!

PatsyT : «link»

bito : That’s supposed to a very painful cancer.

kesmarn : You need another TV for your man-cave, b’ito.

bito : it reruns tomorrow for me. Damn,I’ll miss some football.

kesmarn : SW, is a fan of the Prez, I assume, Patsy? Say…did you hear that Aretha has pancreatic cancer? One of the all time greats.

PatsyT : I will have to look for the link

PatsyT : SW really put Tavis in his place about President Obama and then went on to sing

kesmarn : I’ll have to see if I can find it, Patsy. I need something refreshing after a couple of days of McCain and McConnell…blea hhhhhhh….

PatsyT : Stevie is very funny! Oh well if you see it on your scedule check it out

kesmarn : Superstition! Ma Cherie Amour! Love Stevie!

PatsyT : Tavis Smiley had a two part interview on Stevie Wonder. It was great!

kesmarn : Tavis Smiley. I think I do, Patsy. Have never watched him. Whaddya think?

PatsyT : Nudge nudge wink wink

bito : ooooo, Ms. Patsy!!

PatsyT : Hey do any of you get Tavis Smiley on PBS?

kesmarn : Kinda like Boehner when he looks at a bottle of tanning lotion wrapped in a couple hundred dollar bills, b’ito.

PatsyT : See

PatsyT : Like this ….

bito : What does a come hither look, look like?

PatsyT : Piss ants

kesmarn : Patsy, the NYT wants me to log in! The nerve of them!

PatsyT : Hey Cher, great to see you and hope all is well with you!

bito : Night Cher, welcome back.!!!!:!:

kesmarn : Sounds like your Friday evening is about to get even more exciting, Cher! Good to see you here again!

PatsyT : I haven’t seen any further news on them. I read somewhere that they will be staffing up. This is the same link I have posted before «link»

bito : We need to add that to our blogroll when the start posting news, Patsy.

Chernynkaya : Guys, my husband is giving me a come hither look and I must bid you all adieu! This was fun. Missed it!

kesmarn : This growing wealth disparity in the country is a real problem, too. How do you redistribute wealth when even saying those words gets you labeled a communist?

Chernynkaya : I can’t remember the name, bito, but it gives me hope

PatsyT : Oh Bito that is American Bridge.

kesmarn : Yes, Cher, a way to really communicate with the average voter (dolt though he may be ) Bill Clinton had a knack for that — even though he was a lot more centrist than he pretended to be. Even Lyndon Johnson got things done with the War on Poverty and the Civil Rights Act.

bito : What is the group of K. Kennedy? I think Ms. Patsy posted it. A rival to Rove.

Chernynkaya : Kes– that study was chilling, if nothing we didn’t already know. But that, along with Citizens United are major game changers, And that;s why I am so worried that calm and reasoned just won’t cut it any longer, in this environment. WE need a game changer too–on the Left.

kesmarn : I know, b’ito, one of those “duh?” moments, huh?

bito : WOW, I’m surprised at that, k’es.

kesmarn : When you think of how many people get their “news” from FUX, that’s a lot of misinformation out there.

kesmarn : University of Maryland did a study which showed that FUX viewers are MUCH more likely to believe lies than any other demographic of TV watchers.

Chernynkaya : I know. One of my greatest frustrations is not even with the R’s and their Baggers– enraging as they are. it’s the stupid VOTERS who are beneath contempt! GRRRRR!!!

kesmarn : Dubya was an evil genius, Cher, in draining the country dry, pointing the plane he was piloting straight into the ground and then parachuting out at the last second. The public is too dim to connect the dots. Obama didn’t do this!

bito : Cher, the Bush economy. People get pissed without paychecks.

kesmarn : b’ito I coulda gotten away with that, too. Damn Catholic school honesty stuff they taught me….!

bito : K’es, she’s not here! Take it!

Chernynkaya : Bito==that’s what drives me nuts– How could we have gone so far right so soon! Obama had a good margin of victory! I know, fickle voters, etc. Still..

PatsyT : She is on Q

kesmarn : Patsy, have to give credit to Questinia for that one. She came up with it!

PatsyT : Ha Kes, DadLib is great!

bito : Cheer up, Cher. We could have had a r Senate and McGrumpy as Prez

kesmarn : DadLib, tell her a funny bedtime story…!

Chernynkaya : Adlib, what you just pointed out is what keeps me in the game. Pendulum, baby, fucking pendulum!

AdLib : BRB…have to put the little one to bed! No eating the last piece of pecan pie while I’m gone!

AdLib : Cher – We will have dramatic fights ahead on SS, HCR, Medicare, etc. and I think it will rally us and a majority in the nation together and more to the left. As the wealthy’s profits and ownership of the nation increase and they try to take away the safety nets for 98% of the nation, the pendulum could indeed swing back to the left.

bito : Right, k’es, ” the what have you done for ME lately.

kesmarn : AdLib, I say it every week. I hope you’re right. You’re the eternal optimist. And we need a little optimism right now!

Chernynkaya : Bito– no, the rules won;t change. but remember–I am depressed. So who knows.

bito : OK, here is a quiz. Will the Dems have 51 votes to change the filibuster rules in the next session?

kesmarn : I am hearing that more and more, Cher, I must say.

AdLib : Kes – Watch his approval ratings rise after this week’s vote. Whether we like it or not, most Americans wanted this deal to pass, want to see progress in DC and parties working together. Obama is going to be seen again as rising above the petty politics…espec ially as Repubs get more and more vindictive and petty.

Chernynkaya : Look, I am speaking purely from my personal wishes, and I know that they do not represent the voters. Obama will win. The country is much more right than I would like. Swing voters do win elections– all true, I acknowledge that. But I feel separated from the rest of my country, and while Obama represents me to a good degree, I am deeply concerned about threats to programs I hold dear– Like SS.I feel the onslought of Fox voters is scary and that we really need a strong counter punch.

kesmarn : The one that demonstrated that the electorate votes on short term memory, b’ito?

bito : K’es, remember that graph from Krugman i posted?

AdLib : Cher – Right with you, Obama is a consensus builder…he is a community organizer. But, with liberal views. He may not go as far left as many of us think would best benefit the nation but again, to move forward with him or backward with a Romney or Palin, he needs the Swing Voters. And I think his appearing reasonable and moderate will end up winning the day.

kesmarn : In a way, though, AdLib I think he was seen as “rising above” the conflict when he was campaigning against H. Now — not so much — he seems to be stymied by the Repubs, which presents differently to the electorate.

bito : And swing voters often vote their paycheck.

AdLib : When Obama was running against Hillary and she was slamming him with Rev. Wright and not being qualified to answer the WH phone at 3 am, I was frustrated with him. I thought he needed to come back far more aggressive at her but it turned out, he made the right choice in the long run. I was wrong. I think the other fellow Dems taking that same position may feel the same way in two years. Winning national elections isn’t about one’s base as much as it’s about Swing Voters. And they like moderates like Obama, especially in contrast to extremists. So, in the long run and in the pursuit of returning The House to Dems, retaining The Senate and WH, this may be the correct path.

kesmarn : I also think Obama has seldom — maybe never — been in a situation in which a fine mind and a knack for very rational thought didn’t avail him much. He is up against completely irrational, hostile people. It’s hard to know how to deal with that if you’ve had little experience with it.

bito : Clean and concise, eh?

Chernynkaya : That’s a good quote, bito.

bito : What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.

Chernynkaya : AdLib, I believe Obama is a consensus builder more than an Idealogue.I don’t think he wants to move much farther Left.

bito : Read this comment to a troll today. Thought it was a keeper

AdLib : Cher – Consider FDR starting his first term as a somewhat conservative moderate. Obama does not strike me as someone who would move radically left but as the Repubs discredit the right, he may indeed have more room on the left to move with the country supporting him.

Chernynkaya : Bito= apparently my posts to you–agreeing– went poof. Sorry!

Chernynkaya : Bito== please read all my posts of possible– I said the same thing.

kesmarn : I know I would feel a little better if just a dozen or so guys from Goldman and Chase would go to prison… I could get really enthusiastic again…!

Chernynkaya : AdLIb– Obama will run, unchallenged and likely win. I am just musing about what I, as a Lefty would prefer, solely so that we stop moving so damn Right!

AdLib : This talk of a primary challenge to Obama was born on Fox and the right wing. Operation Chaos and all that concern troll stuff.

Chernynkaya : Kes, yes.

Chernynkaya : Agreed.

Chernynkaya : “Face it kids the country is a center right country. Mr. Obama is about as liberal as one can hope for”

bito : Yes??

AdLib : What Dem wold commit professional suicide by challenging the first black president and making it possible for there to be a President Palin?

Chernynkaya : OOPs!! HAHAHA>

Chernynkaya : Bito:

Chernynkaya : Bito:

bito : Cher, the dems will lose the White House if there is a challenge!!!

kesmarn : You mean sorta scare Obama a little more to the left, Cher?

Chernynkaya : Kes, I have no candidate in mind. I just think someone willing to run from the left, get a respectable # of votes to make the point, and then for godssake, drop out!

kesmarn : Something would have to go seriously wrong.

AdLib : I will take all bets, no way in the world will there be a primary challenge to Obama.

kesmarn : I have read data that say young voters stayed home this past Nov. At least the Tea Party doesn’t seem to be pulling them in that direction.

bito : Weiner is too liberal. Face it kids the country is a center right country. Mr. Obama is about as liberal as one can hope for

AdLib : Cher – My bet is that the moderates, indies, Latinos, blacks and youth will be strong for Obama and most Dems will turn otu for him. The Repubs will race so far to the right to win the primary and TPs will be discouraged by their not delivering on their promises, Obama should be seen as favored right now.

Chernynkaya : Bito– there are more registered DEms nationally than R’s. We didn’t GOTV and the young stayed home as they always do midterm.

AdLib : Obama’s approval ratings have been shockingly level and above Reagan’s and Clinton’s in their midterms: «link»

kesmarn : Sorry…cat on the keyboard…”may be Weiner” is what I meant to type.

bito : history says a challenger to a sitting pres, the other party loses.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– about Obama moderation looking better ti most voters- spot on! But that also turns off the base of Progs.

kesmarn : Interesting scenario, Cher. Who do you see as the primary challenWeiner?

AdLib : True bito, Repubs did have a huge turnout though young voters didn’t turn out (as they usually don’t in midterms). Again, check out results for presidential years in history, the youth vote will be way up again as will moderates. It’s a mistake to use this midterm as a pattern for a presidential year.

Chernynkaya : Kes, I am a yellow dog Dem. I will always vote for the Dem. But others make a complelling case that there must be SOME WAY to move the country more Left. I am thinking the best would be a strong primary challenge from the Left, BUT then the challenger dorps out in the general. Otherwise, we hand the election to the R’s.

bito : k’es,

kesmarn : AdLib — as long as his moderation isn’t cast as weakness, that works…

bito : The progressives/dem s/liberals did not stay home. The R’s had a very large turn out.

kesmarn : Make that 2012.

AdLib : Kes – How about this proposition? As the Repubs start abusing their power and proposing insane things, Obama’s moderation looks far more attractive.

kesmarn : b’ito, their slogan could be “The Bitch and the Witch 2010.”

Chernynkaya : I have NO faith in the Prog voters either. They just DID stay home against th craziest bunch in memory. The only thing that will get them out is Palin, and she won;t make it that far.

AdLib : Cher – I agree, I don’t think there will be a huge improvement in the economy in 2012 but instead of this election being about Obama, 2012 will be a choice election. Obama or Palin, Obama or Huckabee, Obama or Romney.

bito : Palin/o’Donnell –2012!!!

kesmarn : Cher, and all — what do you think of the argument that — even if we have some genuinely negative feelings about Obama — we need to do what the Rs do, which is to never, ever break ranks. Hold our noses and vote for our guy, regardless…? Solidarity on the left? Can it be done?

AdLib : It will be the most surreal, extreme and truly frightening GOP primary in 2012. Did you know that the top fund raising tool for Dems this election on ongoing is the threat of Palin? Now imagine that she does well in the GOP primary. Where will the disaffected Dems be then?

Chernynkaya : As Bito said, it’s JOBS! In 2 years, I don’t think there will be much difference, despite R shenanigans. Also, the war– people are getting very impatient.

AdLib : The legit Progressives who claim they won’t vote will change their tune after the GOP primary plays out, imagine the extremist, radical agendas that will grow out of the race to the extreme right.

Chernynkaya : I hear you Ad, about nthe litany of R perfidy. It will probably have a negative imapct on the PArty.But as Bito pointed out, in the end it’s ab out JOBS. And I don’t know if it will be better enough in 2 yrs.

AdLib : Cher – True indeed, the TP extremists will only be angry because anarchy hasn’t broken out but I think we’ll see an enthusiasm gap on the other side of the table in 2012. Are TPs going to rally around a non-TP like Romney? Or if Palin or Huckabee win, would they stand a chance in mainstream America?

kesmarn : I’ve heard some Progressives say they won’t vote, too, Cher.

kesmarn : One point my friend made was that she feels Obama has done little for the middle class. The very poor and the wealthy have been helped. The rest of us are twisting in the wind…

Chernynkaya : Bito–it’s not that they will vote for any R– it’s that they WON;T VOTE AT ALL that worries me.

AdLib : This is a rough patch for us Progressives but I think they’ll all come home when the Tea Party Repubs start displaying their frightening agenda.

Chernynkaya : AdLib, you’re right about voters, but what upsets me is the R’s voters are going to be disappointed for reasons I don;t care about. The real reasons for them to be outraged are because the R’s are lying venal scumbags– not merely fiscally irresponsible.Se ems to be the only thing the Baggers care about.

bito : We must think about employment, always, when viewing poll numbers/

kesmarn : I had quite a “spirited” discussion with a friend earlier today. She’s a lifelong lib, voted for Obama, but extremely, bitterly disappointed now. I get it. My feeling is: give this a little more time. Hang in there.

AdLib : Cher, looking ahead, with Issa’s witch hunt against Obama, the Repubs trying to kill HCR, SS, Medicare, Unemployment benefits, the economy improving, on and on, there will be a resurgence for Obama.

bito : And who are liberal going to vote for? Rommney? Palin? Hucky?

bito : Hey. Patsy..er,,ralph

Chernynkaya : About what Bito? About his base? His poll numbers have gone down among the 20% of so-called progressives, the group I assumed AdLib was referring to. Haven’t you heard, Progs are pissed.

kesmarn : Patsy! Where the heck have you been, girl? See you in a bit!

AdLib : Hey Patsy!

PatsyT : Hi Guys, I am going to be back in a few minutes …. I hope all of you are doing well this evening…

AdLib : I know it may seem like a long time ago but just a couple years ago, America recognized Repubs for what they are. Now that they will have the power to assert themselves again, it is not so hard to imagine people souring on them too. Also keep in mind, when the Dems won in 2006 their ratings went down once they took over. There will be disappointment with the lack of change under Repub rule in the House, it’s history repeating itself again and again.

bito : What the hell are you talking about Cher? Obamas poll numbers ha ve barely changed!!

Chernynkaya : I guess I am feeling that facts and reason and reality no longer have any currency. I feel that there is nothing we can expect that makes sense politically.

kesmarn : That’s beyond ironic that Joe “Sorry for the shakedown, BP!” Barton is in charge of energy.

kesmarn : I don’t have a good feeling about DREAM, either.

bito : AdLib, Agreed!!! This congress has been a very productive term. HELLO??? MSM???

Chernynkaya : I bet my pocket money that DREAM is dead for the near future.

AdLib : Cher – They can’t claim they aren’t involved or responsible anymore. And we will see some horrific proposals and fights and attacks on Obama in the next two years, that will take a toll and tarnish the whole Tea Party movement. I mean, Michelle Bachman is on the Intelligence Comittee now and Barton is in charge of Energy!

kesmarn : I hope people can figure out all the positives, AdLib. But, as Cher says, the population seems to have checked their brains at the entrance to the tea party.

Chernynkaya : But who knows– 2 years is a long time.

Chernynkaya : Of course, all of that is positive and extremely accomplished. But Obama has alienated his base to the point of no return I fear.

bito : Durbin has been working on the DREAM act for TEN years, here’s the kicker McGrump was an original sponger.

Chernynkaya : AdLib– they only have the House, and won’t be held accountable for the other branches. This country is beyond stupid.

AdLib : Though none of us are happy about the taxcuts for the wealthy remaining, if DADT is repealed and START is approved, all under a Dem Pres and Congress, adding those to HCR, Financial reforms, Student Loan reform, etc., won’t that be somewhat positive?

kesmarn : I think it will backfire, too, Cher. But McConnell seems to be making noise about it.

Chernynkaya : Kes, I don;t think they want a shutdown, but they may go for it. It will backfire on them bug time.

AdLib : Bito – My predictions, DREAM Act will fail in The Senate, DADT will win.

AdLib : Cher – Only because the Dems have been the scapegoat by being the party in power. As the Repubs lose the shield of claiming no responsibility, they become very vulnerable. In polls, they are no more liked than Dems.

Chernynkaya : bito–LOL– I am not THAT bad yet– I like um, Boxer, and um..

bito : The DREAM act will come up tomorrow for a vote? Any bets?

kesmarn : Does anyone else think their game plan involves a total gov’t shut-down after the first of the year?

Chernynkaya : Adlib, on a good day, I agree; the R’s are overreaching as well as having two masters. Most of the time, I see them able to get away with ANYTHING at this point.

kesmarn : Right, Cher. Easier to make the short list of those we admire… Marcy Kaptur….er…u h…

AdLib : The only thing Repubs don’t lie about is their love for Reagan and gladiator movies.

bito : k’es, live in AZ, My senators are both trash.

kesmarn : Is there anything in the known universe about which the R’s don’t lie, b’ito?

Chernynkaya : Kes, no shortage of those I despise. So many pols– so little time!

AdLib : At the same time, The Repubs already have painted themselves in a corner. I would raise my bet that they are going to self-destruct over the next two years, they can’t please the TP and themselves.

bito : Reading the monkey cage and their number crunching, here’s a clue about exit polls. The R’s lie.

kesmarn : McConnell is starting to edge out Palin as the politician I despise the most.

Chernynkaya : When your ONLY goal is to prevent Obama form ANY legislative victory, what the people want doesn’t matter one bit. And forget about what’s good for the nation.

kesmarn : “Representative democracy”…as you said, AdLib, works well for the top 2%…

AdLib : bito – All that “representative democracy” stuff is messin’ with my head!

Chernynkaya : There ya go, bito!

kesmarn : Hey, b’ito! Yes, isn’t it all about giving the people what they don’t want?

Chernynkaya : Hope you are right, ADLib. They should be able to pass it.

bito : Why would they vote for such a thing as DADT when the polls show 70% support?

AdLib : My bet is that it will happen tomorrow.

Chernynkaya : Repeal of DADT? No. I have turned completely cynical about he Senate/

kesmarn : It’s the least they can do for us.

AdLib : stockings

AdLib : Well…might we get a DADT repeal in our Xmas sockings?

AdLib : Holiday spirits.

kesmarn : Much better than the pomegranate vitamin water that’s accompanying the walnuts here! Yes!

Chernynkaya : Now you’re talkin’.

kesmarn : Mmmmm. Pecan pie… I’m eating walnuts at the moments. Just walnuts…no cookies attached….sigh …

AdLib : Okay then, pomegranate martinis?

kesmarn : The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, waiting for Mitch McConnell to fill ’em with something besides air…

AdLib : Pecan pie anyone?

AdLib : Kes – It’s the Friday before Xmas and all through the house, not a blogger was typing, even those with a mouse.

kesmarn : Hi, Cher! Hi Khirad! What kinda cake are you bringing to Vox?

AdLib : Hey All!

Khirad : Hi. I’m bakin’ a cake so I’ll be back off and on.

Chernynkaya : Hi all!My fingers are cold, so I don;t think I can type well.

kesmarn : Good evening, AdLib! And I thought I might be the last one to arrive at the party!

AdLib : Vox Populi is beginning soon, don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00 pm. Hope to see you then!