The Washington Monthly has a very good article about the health insurance reform debate over whether or not to scuttle the House and Senate bills and start over. They characterize it as a battle within the battle between the Left activists and the Left policy wonks. A really good read:
The conclusion of the WM is that we should not start over, but remain focused on future legislation, and they use past legislative history to remind us it ia a process. I’ll repost my history of Social Security here, because it is a kind of revelation.
The Social Security Act was passed by Congress as part of the New Deal and signed by Roosevelt on August 14, 1935. Most women and minorities were excluded from the benefits. Jobs that were not covered by the act included workers in agricultural, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers. The act also denied coverage to individuals who worked intermittently.
__1950 After years of debates about the inclusion of domestic labor, household employees working at least two days a week for the same person were added in, along with nonprofit workers and the self-employed.
__1954 Hotel workers, laundry workers, all agricultural workers, and state and local government employees were added in.
__ 1956 Disability benefits were added; women were allowed to retire at 62 with benefits reduced by 25%. Widows of covered workers were allowed to retire at 62 without the reduction in benefits.
__1961 Retirement at age 62 was extended to men.
__1962 Benefits of covered women could be collected by dependent husbands, widowers, and children.
—1965 MEDICARE was added, part of President Johnson’s Great Society program. The age at which widows could begin collecting benefits was reduced to 60. Widowers were not included in this change. When divorce became the major cause of marriages ending, divorcées were added to the list of recipients.
__1972 The bill also set up a cost of living adjustment (COLA) to take effect in 1975. Amendments also established the Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Immigrants who had never paid into the system became eligible for SSI benefits when they reached age 65. SSI is not a Social Security benefit, but a welfare program, because the elderly and disabled poor are entitled to SSI regardless of work history.
__1977-1990’s Amendments regarding the indexing of payments and dealing with the Trust Fund were enacted.
And here’s a short few paragraphs in The New Republic trying to cheer we progressives:
Howard Dean on Morning Joe– he’s found more wrong with the Senate bill:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/msnbc_tv-morning_joe#34461661
Cher, and David Axelrods reply:
http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1209/w_h_dont_do_it_d0a1ab20-1fcf-4921-93e2-be6213056590.html
Yes. Actually, the whole show, which I am playing now, is fascinating. You should hear Peggy Noonan. I usually discount her, but she has some interesting insights!
FYI: Bernie Saunders is on C-Span2. Wow great speech!
Oops! sorry
FYI: Bernie Saunders speech is on and it is GREAT! C-Span 2, (he was forced to remove his amendt.)
FYI: Just called Maria Cantwells office in my state of Washington today to ask how are the 30,000 million people who have no health insurance are going to be covered if there is no public option. He said that they are trying to figure this out now. He said they are thinking of doing something like the Basic Health program in WA. state. My family of four was on this program four about five years when we had a struggling business. We were paying anywhere from $30 to $90 a month for good health insurance. It is based on income. The staffer said that people within %300 possibly %400 of the poverty level could be covered. Right now the program is struggling because of the economy. We were very grateful for Basic Health when we needed it. We never would have had health insurance otherwise.
Who Knows what will come of this. I think we need to demand affordable health coverage for everyone.
What worries me –and I’m not saying this is how it would work– is that Medicaid is run by the states. If the bill provides for Medicare expansion, I know California doesn’t have the money to take any more people. How will this help people if the states are broke?
This is legislating, this is the making of the sausage. Have many here watched many bills this long this much with such intensity?
Right now Coburn is making the clerk read the whole 336 page amendt. of Bernie Saunders (medicare for all). What an ass!
Edit: the estimate by the clerks office this maneuver by Coburn is going to take 8 hrs. to read the whole thing. This is the GOP’s idea of governing! Constuctive, Eh?
Morning, b’ito.
Hope you are feeling better today.
Here’s a little health care story that hopefully brightens everyone’s day.
A Nurse’s Tale
“Of course I won’t laugh,” said the nurse. “I’m a professional. In over twenty years I’ve never laughed at a patient.”
“Okay then.” said Fred, and he proceeded to drop his trousers, revealing the tiniest bit of goods the nurse had ever seen. Length and width, it couldn’t have been bigger than a AAA battery.
Unable to control herself, the nurse started giggling, then fell to the floor laughing. Ten minutes later, she was able to struggle to her feet and regain her composure.
“I am so sorry,” she said. “I don’t know what came over me. On my honor as a nurse and a lady, I promise it won’t happen again. Now, tell me, what seems to be the problem?”
“It’s swollen.” Fred replied.
Morning j’avaz, good joke! After spending the last few days not doing much, I need to get some chores done today. Need to make to the Groc. store. Hope all is well with you.
The husband and I are getting ready to jump on our bicycles and ride off into the desert.
Lots of horse trails out here, so it’s not too bad a ride except for the hills.
My head hurts from trying to follow all this politics.
Hope you have a good afternoon and hope to see you later.
Later, javez.
I’m changing my vote.
I was thinking we should go with reconciliation or go back to the drawing board, but after listening to some very sensible arguments, I don’t think we should kill this bill. I’m asking a different question, which is, “Is this a good start?” And I have to say, yes, this is a good start.
This bill will help a lot of people, and that’s a good start. It won’t do everything we need or everything we want, but it will put a stop to some of the most egregious practices of our insurance industry. Policies we’ve been trying to stop for decades. And that’s a good start.
Once we have something on the books, we can add to it.
We need to channel progressive anger into making sure we throw out all remaining obstructionists so that we can ensure reform continues in the coming years.
Sorry to disagree, nellie, but if Howard Dean is correct, the bill will hurt some of the most vulnerable – the elderly – by charging higher premiums.
Plus, according to Dean, it will not stop insurance companies from canceling insurance for pre-existing conditions.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HealthCare/howard-dean-health-care-bill-bigger-bailout-insurance/story?id=9349392
We seem to need a list of pros and cons on this bill — that’s what I feel like right now. Like the lists people make when they’re trying to make a decision. We don’t have access to any copy of this bill yet, do we?
True–most of the bill remains under wraps pending a report from the Congressional Budget Office.
I’m tending in your direction also. Last night I watched Howard Dean and thought, Dump the bill. Then I watched Wyden and thought, Don’t dump the bill. Gawd do I feel like a teeter-totter. Am I the only person who is exhausted?
On second wind, there STILL isn’t a final bill. They STILL have to pass something, go to committee and come up with the final bill. What I don’t get is why they aren’t talking about regulation of premium prices.
Me too, E’cat. I am changing my mind hourly! My latest leaning is this: Kill the Senate bill, but take something into reconciliation, and then blend it with the House bill–which still must be blended with he Senate bill anyway.
Isn’t that possible? I am lost in the procedurals.
Good morning!
A great blog from over at 538, Nate Silver’s site. I think this says a lot:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ov-pT1x-W8Y/Syc81xcp_4I/AAAAAAAADRs/8TXu1nI2OTA/s400/hcbill.png
The title of his blog is Why Progressives Are Batshit Crazy to Oppose the Senate Bill. And the image above is why he thinks so.
Cher…to clarify…those numbers reflect costs WITHOUT a reform bill, correct?
The column on the left is what it will cost a family of four earning $58k/year for insurance if the Senate bill is passed = $9,000
The middle column is what it costs a family for insurance if Congress does nothing = $19,576
The column on the right represents what this family would pay for insurance with the Senate bill plus supplemental insurance for their 2 kids = $13,690
So the conclusion is that the Senate bill saves a middle-class family over $10,000 a year for health insurance.
Good Morning Friends,
Just finished watching Washington Journal this morning. One of their guests was Senator Kay Hagan “DEM” from North Carolina.
Who is she ????
She has a big “D” behind her name. She just stated she was a fiscal conservative. Then stated that the European Union has problems with counterfeit drug importation and people are dying
from taking these so called “illegal” drugs.
I have two very close friends that live in the European Union and they have never heard of people dying from these drugs. Let alone of a illegal prescription drug problem in their countries.
The two countries my friends are in are Ireland and Germany.
Has anyone else heard of this ? Or is this just another sack of lies, the mantra of tell Americans anything (the dumbing down continues).
I’m disgusted with the Democrats.
So many promises made, so many broken.
I feel betrayed.
I am hoping that President Obama doesn’t break his promise on providing affordable health care for all.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i7pIgy2ugWrNRwWJXRsdLjuMiwwgD9CK2L6O2
She’s in North Carolina — so it’s not too surprising she’s a conservative in Dem’s clothing. Progressives have a lot of work to do, getting people to see the truth of how their representatives don’t represent their interests.
We have a lot of work to do developing good progressive candidates, too. And getting them elected. Ned Lamont should have won in CT.
Good morning javaz! I hope your morning is starting off with some sunshine.
Morning, FeedUp!
Thanks for the link, javaz. The more I read this kind of thing, the more I think the filibuster has outlived its usefulness. Dems never use it, anyway. It has devolved into a GOP obstruction machine.
Nellie,
You are so right another “fiscal conservative” disguised as a DEM.
I’m not giving up hope yet, but if by chance the Democrats and President Obama fail to deliver on their promise of affordable health care for all, and if they instead pass legislation that is a bonanza for the insurance and pharmaceutical companies, then all of them deserve to be voted out.
If the Democrats are going to act like Republicans in rewarding corporations, then what difference is there between the 2 parties?
Javaz,
Other than a small handful of Dems, there is no difference.
FlipFlop Lieberman, was a democrat, then had his head up McCain’s arse, now an independent.
A true patriot and champion for the American people. He is a FRAUD.
C’mon people, Kay Hagan is not the demon many of you make her out to be. Is she a rabid progressive? No. Is she a rabid blue dog? No. Neither of the drug importation amendts. passed and she was not a leader pro or con on them. she is not standing in the way for a good HCR bill. Is she a fiscal conserv? She has to represent North Carolina. She has to get elected. Do you think Bernie Sanders could get elected there?
Um, it seems I am the last one here. I’ll turn out the lights!
Okay something about this health care debate has become amiss in the last few days, and I’m not sure who to believe about anything. The series of events listed below have been puzzling.
1. First the senate dems come up with a medicare buy-in plan, and they state that they have sent it to the CBO for scoring.
2. Lieberman comes out and says he doesn’t support any public option
3. The WH supposedly tells Reid to cut a deal with Lieberman, then WH denied it.
4. Senate is poised to remove the medicare buy-in before the CBO comes in. WHY?
5. Wyden now seems to change his tune about what’s in the bill and seems resigned to not have a public option.
6. Lieberman is out there grinning on every news station, claiming that he is concerned about costs (but the medicare buy-in has not even been scored)!!
7. Lieberman has the audacity to publicly state that he doesn’t support the mecdicare buy-in because Weiner & Dean seemed to happy about it????
8. Obama comes out and claims he’s excited that all his guidelines have been met in the senate bill?
9. Dean comes out and says to “kill the bill” and wait until two years down (when there will be even fewer democrats in the house/senate) to put in the more progressive amendments?
Is this a trick? What is going on? Are we being kept in the dark about something?
I’m beginning to suspect that we may have a game of Good Cop/Bad Cop going on.
But I’m so tired right at the moment, that I’m going to have to take a page from Scarlett O’Hara’s book and “think about that tomorrow…”
Good night, friends!
See you tomorrow, I hope, Kes.
Night night…I think I’m going to bed too.
Thinking about Dr. Dean
Yes, you may be right about Dean bluffing. I’ll keep that in mind. I’m just just waiting for the CBO report in the medicare buy-in option to see how Lieberman tries to spin his way out of this. If it comes out cheaper, then Lieberman and the blue dogs would have to chuck their non-arguments about costs and deficits.
Gretel … Is there method to this madness? Your list is an excellent description of what seems to me like mayhem and sheer looniness. Lieberman sure is making it easy to hate him…almost too easy. I posted yesterday, “He is looking almost too bad to be true.”
But then again, sometimes an asshole is just an asshole. We shall see.
So did we get to the teabagger “Die In” on Rachel? Sorry. I just thought that was super classy, yet again.
Speaking of, I remember bringing up how there was all this tempest in a teapot over Specter how many months ago? He hasn’t been one of the problem senators in this, and was on Rachel. Just sayin’. Read into that what you will.
I had the same thought when I saw him. Guess he’s just not a turdy as Lieberman– may he rot.
Probably a lot of good sayings and proverbs to be mixed here. Don’t count your chickens, taking the eye off the ball, it’s never the one you suspect.
Okay, so it is the one we should have suspected, but, all I’m saying is, between all the other senators, the story that isn’t being told is how Specter has been a better Democrat than these folks.
I think I’m gonna call it a night. Not a definite thing, but I’m just not on my game after driving the desert today.
Good night, Khirad. Hope you feel better in the morning.
Wish I could read some more but….
Good Night all.
Keep the Planet Spinning….correctly!
Good night, b’ito. Sleep well.
Good night bito, rest well, stay strong.
Here at the Planet, we always spin to please. 🙂
Night.
Good night, friend.
The argument that the importation of drugs isn’t going on in this country is a not true. I have noticed that many prescription drugs are now made in many other countries.
The vote was 51-48, short of the 60 required. In the complicated politics of the moment, that was counted as a victory for the health care bill, since the drug industry opposes importation but is working with the White House to pass the overhaul effort.
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who had pushed the change, said it was a loss for consumers. “This is not over and it’s never going to be over as long as American pay the highest prices in the world” for drugs, he said.
Importation of drugs by the mega-pharmaceuticals manufactured in foreign countries is okay ? ? Then ramping up the price to Americans. Why is this okay ?
This isn’t change, it is just more people talking out of both sides of their mouth.
At least Sen. Dorgan is being honest.
Excellent points. It is a joke, the excuses Pharma gives for not importing drugs.
How many people have died from taking pharms in Canada? Shouldn’t even ask the question, it’s validating the obvious bullshit excuses.
How could the Repubs pass so many horrible bills and the Dems can’t pass anything without it being hugely corrupted?
Well said. I wish I could add more, but I’m just not feeling very focused tonight. Heck, people are even taking their chances with La Farmacia.
Cher – it’s 7:44 in Sacramento. Nice to know we’re in the same time zone!
I find all of your arguments against killing the bill very persuasive, and I do agree.
I would like us ALL to take up the mantra about one thing, however – if there is no public option by which premiums etc. are truly made more affordable, then THERE MUST BE NO MANDATE TO HAVE INSURANCE. Forcing people to buy the excresences out there and incur god-know what costs is utterly immoral!The Schwarzenegger effort and the Mass Connector both planned and do have pretty low, subsidized premiums. However, to keep the premiums low, the deductibles are $5000 with out of pocket up to $10,000 – PER PERSON PER YEAR. That is outrageous! It makes YOU pay that, not the insurance company! It’s a total gift to Aetna and Hartford!!!! People in MA who have it are using it as catastrophic insurance because they do not HAVE the $5000, so they are paying for insuranc they can’t afford to USE.
So – here’s my rap: No public plan, no mandate. Simple as that.
Do you know that government-mandated purchases of commodities in the private market has no TERM in modern economics??? The closest I can come is feudal tribute. I don’t think that’s progress, do you?
That mandate cannot stay. There will actually be a rebellion over that.
And I adopt your mantra!
Oops, when I first read your post, the top was cut off– YES! finally another west coaster in sync with me. Most are in other times zones.
Arizonans are with you half the year – don’t ask, it’s embarassing to our state. And right now, I’m in Palm Springs visiting. So I’m in sync.
Yea!
It is 7:00 PM in L.A. and this is an update on my hourly waffling on whether or not to kill bill.
Thinking about Dr. Dean… To be clear, he is recommending reconciliation–not he same as throwing the whole thing out. And here’s what I think: He’s bluffing. He is sending a message to the Senate that this could be a failure and they should be prepared to deal with the repercussions of that. I think he might be playing chicken. Maybe.
About that wonderful ban on excluding those with pre-existing conditions in senate bill– ins.cos. can charge what they want to cover you.
Also, Dean says that he disagrees that we won’t revisit this for another 20 years because this crisis will force reform much sooner than that.
Another thing I’ve been noticing is how overt interviewers and Congresspeople are in stating that lobbyists have bought our reps. This is a change in the acknowledgment of that by so many in Congress and a positive unexpected plus.
I am still convince that the purpose of the bill in question is to get some limits on insurance companies.
They have backed down so quickly on the public option and now on the medicare buy-in, that it makes me wonder if they don’t intend to fix that part in reconciliation after the initial bill has passed.
Ron Wyden was pretty specific about the insurance company reform part being completely necessary but impossible under reconciliation, but the public option being completely possible.
Welcome Janus to Planet POV. A warm welcome.
Thanks! Lots of amazing writers here!
I thought Wyden spelled it out pretty soberly today.