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Vox Populi – AfterChat – 3-19-2010

Posted by AdLib On March - 19 - 201066 COMMENTS

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Vox Populi

Vox Populi – 3-12-2010

Posted by AdLib On March - 19 - 2010ADD COMMENTS

FrankenPC : I’m lost. I try to think what it would take to get mainstream attention and I always fall back to accidental fame. Viral information. How does someone create that from scratch? I don’t tink it’s possible.
boomer1949 : Smarty pants!!!
boomer1949 : Cher, did I hit enter again? So sorry!
Chernynkaya : Just had to see that one more time
boomer1949 : Night kes.
Chernynkaya : Boomer
Chernynkaya : Night, Sweet kes!
FrankenPC : Nite Kes
kesmarn : I’m afraid I’ll have to call it a day, friends. It was wonderful as always! Have a good night!
Chernynkaya : No tears tonight for this sub, KQ! Thnaks for sticking around.
Khirad : ‘Tis okay, I’m sure we’ll manage
Chernynkaya : I don’;t know how to give the link, but it;s on the site, I just posted it. Sorry!
PatsyT : *APPLAUSE* Great Job Cher
KQuark : It was fun Cher and you did not go away crying.
FrankenPC : Gooooo Cher!
Khirad : Cher, it’s customary to give the link.
kesmarn : Ya done good, Cher! We’re proud!
Chernynkaya : Ok guys, I guess it’s time for the after chat. I can’t thank you all enough for making this a success!
boomer1949 : kes, shhh, it’s Friday. Remember? As long as you don’t work 7-7 you know?
PatsyT : Franken the captivating thing is how this has all come about We are the real MacCoy
kesmarn : Meant to say “hear” not “here!” Where’s my edit feature?
FrankenPC : Either you are “Avatar” or you ar “Hurt Locker”
Chernynkaya : Kes-- not the group so much as the guys who made the set. But maybe-- I could maybe ask.
FrankenPC : Patsy has the right idea
boomer1949 : I’m a Bombay Blue Saphire, straight up, 3 olive martini. Shaken not stirred with a dash of bitters kind of party person. How ’bout the Martini party?
PatsyT : Its more about the Ideas then the dough Its more authentic that way -- You have to have a naritive
kesmarn : I here there’s this group called OK Go??? Who might be interested in doing a vid for GROW. OK GROW?
Chernynkaya : I hope so. to me the best bet is a viral video of a facebook page like the coffee lady.
KQuark : Actually I read their about section and they seem like breath of fresh air.
FrankenPC : By powerful sponsor I mean something captivating like a viral device or an actual person or group.
PatsyT : GROW can start small hey we all have computers
kesmarn : Hard to say, Cher. If there’s a dedicated core with time and determination, anything can happen.
KQuark : Now a member for Member for 4 min 55 sec+
Chernynkaya : Patsy-- it’s reeally who we are!
FrankenPC : GROW will only take off if it has a powerful sponsor.
PatsyT : Thats It Cher The Pissed Party
Chernynkaya : But anyway, do you guys think the GROW will take off?
FrankenPC : Kes just goes to show you we are more youthful
kesmarn : Wow. It’s 11:30 already here in the heartland! But, yah, what’s a few more minutes?!
Chernynkaya : All this beer and coffee-- I say we’ll be the Pissed party!
KQuark : I’m easy even when I’m broke there’s a little on my SB card.
boomer1949 : Cher, Venti, iced two Splenda Latte puleeze?
Khirad : Free Beer? I’m always there!
FrankenPC : Sure
Chernynkaya : Oh no! Sorry Franken! Damn! Hey, it’s almost time for the after chat, but can we stay a few more mins?
Khirad : Firefox has been pissing me off lately too Franken…
KQuark : Well I have a logon anyway.
FrankenPC : KQ is persuaded by Starbucks diplomacy
PatsyT : Free Beer Party
kesmarn : KQ, seriously?
KQuark : I’m a Coffee Party member!
FrankenPC : Firefox killed my session and everything I typed looked like spam
Chernynkaya : You passed the test, Franken.
boomer1949 : okay… Newsbusters.org “Exposing liberal media bias” should be a clue, eh? Mea culpa, I’m such a nieve old fart.
Chernynkaya : But it can’t be a corporate name. generic. The corn syrup party? Nah.
PatsyT : Ex presive O Party
FrankenPC : Testing 123 test
kesmarn : Or we could be the Caf-FIENDS. Has a menacing quality.
Chernynkaya : I do the dew.
Chernynkaya : Patsy! THat’s good.
kesmarn : Cher, in the South we’d get noticed with a Mountain Dew Party brand of caffeine.
PatsyT : Juice Box Party
PatsyT : Red Bull Party
Chernynkaya : Wow, typing getting worse by the minute--especial ly when I get jazzed.
kesmarn : Khirad, good thing Beck and Limbaugh don’t have agendas, huh?
Chernynkaya : Well, Kes, they have, becasue they have a web site. but I mean, like the caffiene party or the deacf party or the latte aprty.
Khirad : Wow Boomer, THEY’RE upset she’s a political operative? LMAO!
Chernynkaya : Boomer, i am skeptical-- that might be what the right wants us to beleive?
kesmarn : I bet no one has registered “Coffee APrty” yet!
Chernynkaya : I am serious. would it be so terrible to start a movement and riff on the name Coffee APrty?
boomer1949 : «link»
Khirad : Mmm, Irish Coffee. Or a spoof of the tea party, the moonshine party.
boomer1949 : Well, all I’ve been scouring Google and just came up with the following info on Annie…
KQuark : I hope so cher. Like I said I don’t watch TV news. I have not heard of her until tonight.
kesmarn : There you go, KQ. We’d be awake, smelling the coffee, and yet charming and genial at the same time!
Chernynkaya : Latte party-- I say steal he thunder!
PatsyT : The counter message for all the Ads -- They are not spending your Health Care Money on You that should be illegal
Chernynkaya : OH sorry KQ, now I get you.
KQuark : Irish Coffee Party now that’s the ticket.
kesmarn : You know we’d be called “elitist” again, though, if we did Merlot Party!
Chernynkaya : But KQ- the media HAS noticed! Good Morning america, Rachel Maddow show-- I think that’s a great start for an empty name, don’t you? There was a feature showing their meetings too.
KQuark : Sensationalism, a media outlet and money. Teabaggers had all of it. While this amazing woman is doing it grass roots.
Khirad : I second merlot party! Then everyone becomes more attractive!
Khirad : Yup, she got lucky. Maté Party doesn’t have the same ring to it. And Chai Party? Too furrin’!
kesmarn : Or we could just go with Merlot Party…
Chernynkaya : If I were a billionaire I’d pay her for that name and we could rule the worls.
Khirad : Oh yeah, I nominated The Rarest Patriot for voicework.
KQuark : Oh Cher I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying the media won’t notice unless she goes topless or puts Boehner in a Hitler outfit on a sign.
Chernynkaya : I’ll admit what U might have guessed-- I am insanely jealous that Coffee Lady thought of that name and became a media darling and she has NO IDEAS!
kesmarn : Cher, just think of the $$$ all those anti-HCR messages cost!
boomer1949 : httpv://www.yout ube.com/watch?v= lO_5HvnFEv0
KQuark : I don’t watch any of the pundits anymore. I probably will again before the midterms. It just makes the process of change seem to take even longer.
Khirad : That was annoying, them flooding MSNBC airwaves with anti-HCR messages. Ever want to see how much we’re outspent? They’re throwing money in MSNBC viewer’s faces!
Chernynkaya : KQ-- Coffe lady is not at all outragious. she thought of a great name, got 100,000 hits on Facebook-- where we need to be!-- and 600,000 on her new web page!
PatsyT : Hey Khirad …. This message has been brought to you by the Planet
KQuark : I agree Cher the media wants one but it’s a catch 22 because to be noticed you have to be outrageous.
Chernynkaya : KQ all day long on mSNBC the #1 advertiser was the anti-HCR message: Tell Congress not to take away your health care. ALL DAY!!
kesmarn : KQ where does Dylan Rattigan stand these days? I used to watch him when he was on in the morning, but never see him now.
KQuark : That’s what I thought but when are the “principled” pundits who call the Dems weak going to get a backbone.
kesmarn : Franken
Chernynkaya : KQ not as long as owned by GE or whatever corp own them now. With Fox, the owner is an idealogue.
FrankenPC : Kes, you mention LDS…IS THAT YOU SPOCK?
kesmarn : Khirad and Cher, that’s an interesting possibility! Shroud, mourning, for our lost democracy…. hmmm
Chernynkaya : Yes kes
Chernynkaya : patsy--this thread is moving so fast, but that’s what Im saying! The media WANTS a coffee party!
KQuark : When is damn MSNBC going to actually get behind progressive causes?
kesmarn : Cher, was it an anti-war protest? I think we had ‘em here, too.
Khirad : We’re all in shrouds, to represent how we all feel anonymous and unseen by DC?
Chernynkaya : Kes, Google Women In black--I was one of them
PatsyT : The coffee party has not had their coffee yet they do not seem to connect but there is a great desire for what they are doing
Khirad : Oh, i had it on in the background. The first video she did seem like she knew how to be in front of a camera though. that makes the Coffee Party lady more disappointing.
kesmarn : Civil War re-enacters around here had one woman who was dressed in mourning--head to toe, including thick veil. She would not speak. No one knew who she was. Got a lot of attention. Sounds like a role for me!
Chernynkaya : Boomer, the coffee lady/ No, and she acted like she was used to being on national TV
KQuark : looking up coffee party now.
Khirad : Ooh, i like hands idea! We could all pass a planet to each other, or something. Have we come up with a logo yet? These are things I could get into.
Chernynkaya : The chick form the Coffee party os grim and dour, imo. I am more photgenic and have a beter personality. But I am shy. ops;
boomer1949 : Cher, she has been blindsided…?
PatsyT : Everyone has hands that are photogenic
Khirad : Yup, the Coffee Party person was disappointing. Most political operatives get coaching, so that even if you have a message, it’s not as easy as it looks. Still, she was disappointing. What point is there to the Coffee Party, except being just as inchoate as the Tea Party?
boomer1949 : I’m far from photogenic — I hate myself in pictures or videos. However, I will sacrifice my vanity and put myself out there for the cause. Did I mention I’m not as cute as the chick from the Coffee Party?
kesmarn : Franken…or, in Beck’s case, high on LDS…
Chernynkaya : Patsy-- I love your ideas. and I am usually critical.
PatsyT : In sharpie of course and how about hands holding Chinese fortune cookie messages
FrankenPC : This would be my message advert: Are you tired of having your life ran by people apparently high on LSD? Then do something about it and ship them all to Disney Land.
Chernynkaya : Boomer--absolute ly cart before the horse! The coffee party is just a clever name. BUT-- the media is soooo hungry for there to be an anti-tea part party!
kesmarn : You got it, Cher. A whole collection of mutant bloggers who are reluctant to fly across country (espec. now with body scanners) and make a video!
Khirad : Yeah, it’s really not that I don’t want to help, I’m just sort of into the anonymity thing.
PatsyT : Hands with Cool Music and Yes Kes messages that makes serious sence and some can be funny
Chernynkaya : I’m glad we’re talking about this-- we are on the internet because we all have three eyes, a nose on our foreheads and other wierdities. Or we just prefer to be naonymous. That’s why i don;t think a live protest will work-- plaus we are all over!
boomer1949 : Coffee Party — and she couldn’t answer could she. Cart before the horse kind of thing and she lost her grip?
FrankenPC : {ENTER}
PatsyT : Opening and closing all kinds childrens, steel workers doctors no faces just hands with messages Just one thought I could draw it out
boomer1949 : Cher,
kesmarn : Sarah Palin hands, with stuff that actually makes sense, though.
Khirad : Ooh, WTS cartoon!
Khirad : Yeah Cher, I saw that too. We should learn from that. I’m pretty shy about being on camera, mash up it is? LOL. We’ve got to have someone who is good with communications, right?
Chernynkaya : Patsy, what’s Hnds/ Like OH NO Mr Bill?
KQuark : Actually that was a duh AdLib should know.
kesmarn : Does WTS do cartooning? Look at me--volunteering the guy who’s not at the meeting!
PatsyT : Hands with messages on them
PatsyT : Say I was thinking about Hands
FrankenPC : Didn’t see the Coffee party vid
KQuark : I wonder if AdLib knows how to mix live action with the animation. I think you could come up with something very clever then.
PatsyT : Oh Cher I missed that
Chernynkaya : Oh about the Coffee party: I saw her on Rachel tonight-- so interesting, because maddow sweetly questioned what their point is.
kesmarn : I am so completely non-photogenic.. .this had better be an anime vid, as far as I’m concerned!
PatsyT : Youtube vid Love it !
FrankenPC : Khir, that’s a great idea. A viral video
KQuark : About my least area of expertize is marketing.
Khirad : YouTube vid, I’m all for that, like the Coffee Party one.
Chernynkaya : ‘ Bye Sue!
boomer1949 : everyone, i’m such an administrative assistant that i can’t keep my teeny tiny fingers off the ENTER key!!!!
KQuark : Boy Cher you got everyone bailing bringing up work.
FrankenPC : I would think garnering the support of some mainstream entertainers would be the most effective.
Chernynkaya : KQ….
kesmarn : Good night, Sue!
Khirad : Night sue.
Chernynkaya : Franken, substitute teachers are always tougher.:evil:
kesmarn : KQ
SueInCa : I would love to participate here, but I have to get going, have a great night all
KQuark : I think I hear my cat calling.
FrankenPC : That’s a tough one Cher
Khirad : No way he can go to Indonesia (besides HP made it sound like Indonesians all hate him now)
kesmarn : Sue, thanks for the correction!
Chernynkaya : WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON “GROW” FOR A WHILE NOW, AND WE SEEM TO BE AT A LULL IN OUR PROGRESS. (I BELIEVE ADLIB IS WAITING TO HEAR IF WE CAN GET THE DOMAIN NAME WE VOTED ON.) WE AGREED THAT THE NEXT STEP SHOULD BE TO PRODUCE A VIDEO AND HAVE SOME TYPE OF LIVE EVENT. FIRST-- DO YOU AGREE THOSE ARE THE NEXT STEPS? SECOND-- EVEN IF NOT THE NEXT STEPS, WHAT SORT OF VIDEO AND EVENT SHOULD WE DO?
SueInCa : no postponed leaving three days
boomer1949 : save the liver did julia really say that? i don’t listen to converted French people, but then again, you are a nurse.
kesmarn : Sue, I understand he cancelled an overseas trip to push HCR here.
Chernynkaya : OK NEW TOPIC:
KQuark : Yup I call it Obama withdrawal syndrome and noticed it during the election. As much as the right hates to admit the average American likes Obama because he’s honest and intelligent but does not talk down to people. When he is out of the spotlight people forget quickly.
kesmarn : boomer
boomer1949 : kes,
SueInCa : I think after the transparency meeting, O said do whatever you have to do and I will sign it, even public option. he was on the road in campaign mode this week, fire it up
Khirad : Thanks KQ, LOL @ Loverboy.
kesmarn : boomer, OT, but I took Tylenol for the bum knee, hence no booze. As Julia Child said: “Save the liver!”
Chernynkaya : I’m afraid if I follow the link I might never find my way back.
Khirad : Exactly Cher, of my criticisms of Obama was the hands-off collegiate approach and “respect” of the separation of powers. Pffft. Children don’t deserve respect, they need guiding by their party leader.
KQuark : «link»
KQuark : Here’s the lastes Khirad but they are even confused.
boomer1949 : kes, so where’s your Merlot?
Chernynkaya : Well, Obama learned how important he personally is to get his agenda done. No more hands off approach! He needs to provide the cover that his approval ratings give to those wimpy so-called Dems.
kesmarn : boomer, worked last night, off tonight and on tomorrow and Sunday. Yuck.
KQuark : That’s why they can change student funding in the budget reconciliation bill. That’s not part of the HCR package and goes back years.
SueInCa : Maybe i just want to see the right get a big sh--burger, but I hope i am right
Khirad : So, Kent Conrad is apparently the ranking parliamentary expert, that doesn’t make me feel good. Voting on two bills at once? If it works, sure!
kesmarn : KQ how would that work?
boomer1949 : kes, you must be on call tonight?
KQuark : I was just reading about the end game and they would like to vote on both bills at one time.
kesmarn : boomer, we luv ya! And I’m envious of the Merlot!
SueInCa : kes, i am not giving them mustard on that burger, maybe some spit to give it flavor
boomer1949 : kes, okay we’re in the same time zone, but cher and sue give me a break. I’m 3 hours of Merlot ahead of y’all. Not fair…
KQuark : I agree Cher but the PO with the president taking over is the reason for the revival. All that said I still think it’s much closer to 50-50 than Dems admit.
kesmarn : Sue, I will personally supply the Dijon mustard on that one!
SueInCa : about boomer cher
Chernynkaya : Sue I so so so hope you are 100% right!!!
Khirad : So how does this work? President signs it and then… Anyone want to explain the whole procedure sometime? I’m so out of my depth, and frankly, most pundits are, too. I just scared by the process right now.
SueInCa : I think they want to give a big shitburger to the republicans
Chernynkaya : What do you mean Sue? About Boomer, or about the PO?
KQuark : Yeah people don’t get that. That was how Republicans defunded things like they did with “welfare reform”. As long as the bill is precedent and has a budgetary impact they can amend it.
PatsyT : Sue I have wondered about that I hope that is what is going on -- You think they are trying to keep it under wraps so the press lays off?
Chernynkaya : But KQ, I was watching MSNBC in the background all day-- not one reprter said that! And it’s true!!
boomer1949 : kes, cher, & sue…
boomer1949 : oops, sorry all, I keep hitting Enter before I’m finsihed. It’ not easy being an Administrative Assistant — heck I’m not even green!
SueInCa : ok is the joke on me?
KQuark : Exactly Cher polls that ask the second question have shown people like the House bill more. In fact now you are seeing a small bump in approval because people like the reconciliation bill better than the Senate bill.
kesmarn : boomer!
Chernynkaya : Boomer-- yer killin me, girl!
SueInCa : boomer
Khirad : Hmm, that would be good KQ, with a passed bill to come back with every cycle.
SueInCa : boomer
SueInCa : patsy the dems are being real cagey about votes for the PO i have a feeling they are going to try to jam it in the bill. i could be wrong but that is my take on all the cagey talk going on with interviews
kesmarn : That would be great, KQ. Annual improvements, I mean
Chernynkaya : This whole new round about the PO was too much. It only makes people more demoralized.
boomer1949 :
boomer1949 : Sue,
Khirad : The polls are the worded now to get an anti-DC response. They should always explain the points in the bill. The Repubs have been masterful, IMHO at making people scared at a vague 2000 page bill of earmarks of evil and impending totalitarianism.
boomer1949 : sue,
KQuark : I said on TimeOut and this is the cynical pol watcher in me. The Dems would not mind taking the PO with them to the polls, especially left leaning Dems. But that said once the big bill is passed EVERY year it can be improved with budget reconciliation.
PatsyT : Sue who? and what bombshell ?
kesmarn : Sue, I hope you’re right. Wish c’lady were here tonight. She has the inside scoop a lot of the time.
SueInCa : boomer i lie to them and then opinion like a dem
Khirad : That would explain the 4-5 points, easily. Do they just claim it as tainted or something?
Chernynkaya : Khirad-- that’s me beef with polls! And esp. re HCR! “Do you want the Senate bill?” “NO” they reply. But they never ask the followup Question-- which would tell them, “because it’s NOT ENOUGH!!”
SueInCa : I think they are being real cagey like they have a big one to pull over on the right, just my feeling i could be wrong
KQuark : boomer that tickled me.
boomer1949 : Hey Patsy!
kesmarn : Sue, you think they’ve got a PO possibility up their sleeve?
boomer1949 : KQ (not KW) for sure.
KQuark : It’s even worse Khirad if you are polled by RAS even if you have voted as a Dem there is a chance they will not take your opinion.
SueInCa : Hi Patsy
Khirad : Hey Patsy!
SueInCa : the dems in the senate and Nancy
Chernynkaya : Sue, who waht??
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy!
Khirad : They’re not likely to vote but registered, right? Then I say yes, they should count. Because it’s about policy, not how disaffected they are.
Chernynkaya : Hey patsy!
SueInCa : they won’t come right out an dsay it, but i have a feeling they have a bombshell to drop
KQuark : boomer spot on that’s how the crazies got hold of the HCR efforts.
PatsyT : Hi Everyone !
Chernynkaya : Boomer I agree.
Chernynkaya : Sue i am so confused now about the PO! Does the senate have 50 votes?
kesmarn : Comrades!!
SueInCa : kes, i have been ther all my life
KQuark : kes that’s what the right will call us all anyway.
boomer1949 : Personally, here is what I think. Not philosophical or resourceful, only experienced over a number of years. The general population of our country has been duped. It’s easier to rely on other sources for information than figuring it out on our own — oops would that be called critical thinking or common sense? Everyone is looking for a short cut, a thread, or someone else to provide an answer — to think for us so we don’t have to think for ourselves. I’m speaking in generalities here and not referring to those of us at the Planet.
Khirad : Veering there kes? I’ve been there a long time!
Chernynkaya : me kes! And anarchist isn’t far behind
KQuark : Fivethirtyeigtht takes on RAS all the time. They cherry pick conservatives and only use likely voters. What about the almost 50% of people who don’t vote aren’t they important when analyzing policy?
SueInCa : Doea anyone think the PO has any chance of being jammed in there?
kesmarn : KQ, i would welcome a “flaming-commie -pinko-radical” category! Honestly, some of us are veering in that direction.
Khirad : How many 20-somethings even have land lines?
kesmarn : Khirad, I heard that too. Land line owners= older, more conservative demographic=skew ed to the right results.
KQuark : True it’s never more than four options like ideological leanings it’s Liberal, Conservative, Moderate and Don’t Know. I always wonder what the effect would be if Liberal was changed to Progressive since Reagan successfully demonized that word.
Chernynkaya : Kes, lately I see the msm quotes Rasmussen but mentions it’s an outlier.
SueInCa : who is rassie?
Khirad : Why was Rassie on Colbert. Made me angry.
kesmarn : KQ, I just assumed I was too dumb to figure it out!
SueInCa : Polls are skewed to get the response the pollster wants
Khirad : Do registered Republicans and likely voters always skew, or just now? That sorta seemed counterintuitive . I would say the problem is land lines, is this false?
Chernynkaya : KQ polls are OK for binary questions, but not for telling us nuance of sublety
KQuark : Wow my last post shows why I should not be on VP. I can’t even make it out.
kesmarn : I wish people (media) wouldn’t even quote Rasmussen. They’re way off.
FrankenPC : Cher I need to watch that video
Chernynkaya : ‘Kay. Sorry. Im just silly tonight after that La lala guy.
KQuark : Funny Cher my last comments said polls lie. Actually both are true the country is fooled to be right center if we are that so it really should not matter if people wake up.
boomer1949 : quit jerkin’ my chain lol
FrankenPC : Of you don’t stop arguing you aren’t patriots
kesmarn : We just love each other’s names!
boomer1949 : c’mon Cher
Chernynkaya : Um, er, Khirad
Chernynkaya : Khgirad
Khirad : Cher
Chernynkaya : Boomer
kesmarn : Oh, yeah, I know all about premature return button hitting!
boomer1949 : Yo Cher, quit giving me poop! Return, return, return, it’s burned in my brain, lol
KQuark : The polls are always highly skewed towards Republicans. They don’t poll anyone but people who are registered to vote and many polls only poll “likely voters”. It was a system built to make Republicans look good.
Khirad : How do you think I knew what Boomer was doing, Cher? I remember a lot of ragging once, in fact!
Chernynkaya : Franken I agree. I used to debate KQ about where this country was, and have come to beleive it is not nearly as CENTRIST as I thought-- it’s more right.
SueInCa : Franken I could see that way back with the Shrub. Washington was passing things that could destroy our constitution but the righties were on it all the way. that is how they can put in place a godly society by trashing the constitution
Khirad : There’s always those types kes. Like the ones running precinct offices during elections and campus democrats. I don’t think there’s any shortage of ambitious young people. All I know is that I’ve never been that type of person to make a good politician.
kesmarn : Yes, Franken, it’s as though they’d rather see the country go down in flames than compromise.
boomer1949 : I know khirad, but I’m an Admin during the day 5 days a week,
Chernynkaya : Oh Khirad, I love that Boomer keeps hitting return. It makes me laugh, becasue I can relate!
FrankenPC : Again, I iterate it’s not Obama that has dropped the ball. It’s like some kind of crazy nihilistic mentality has been exposed in Washington DC that seems impenetrable.
Khirad : Don’t hit return Boomer.
SueInCa : I talk to them all the time, they have not given up, they hate what is going on but do not find fault with O
kesmarn : Do you think young people are interested in running for office…I really don’t know…genuinely curious…
boomer1949 : khirad.
Khirad : Indeed Char, to say the young people gave up on Obama is BS. Who else represents them? An old white guy?
Chernynkaya : Franken-- forget spell check--we read typo here.
boomer1949 : It’s like anything else…as long as someone else can make a difference, it lets the rest of us off the hook. Unfair to the President.
SueInCa : but you still have to work to change the system. i am of the mindset if the country gets angry enough, something will happen and it will not be on the side of the teabaggers
Chernynkaya : I heard of a new poll of the ‘millennial generation’ Theya re NOT turned off-- over 80% said they believed in more govt! and they love obama. Now, if they would only vote…
FrankenPC : My disillusioned spell checker is on the fritz
boomer1949 : Franken,
kesmarn : I think most of his life he’s been in environments where rationality counted for something. It’s got to be frustrating that it doesn’t work in modern DC.
FrankenPC : I still believe Obama represents the best in us. So, when he was elected it was assumed that he would do great things. When we all realized that simply wasn’t going to be enough, a lot of us became dissolutioned with the system.
boomer1949 : I love O. I’ve been around a long time, and I’ve never felt this way about anyone, much less my ex-husband in my life. I sincerely believe our President believed he could bring everyone together — poor guy — but he tried.
Chernynkaya : franken-- I agree- he was/is too idealistic, but I think he finally got a dose of reality.
SueInCa : but the system has been broken for a long time. we all know it the teabaggers are the only ones who think it just broke on nov 4, 2008
Khirad : I agree Kes, the blame should be on DC and recalcitrant conservadems and obstructionist Repubs. Not to say I haven’t been mildly disappointed in Obama’s performance himself. but that’s not where I place a lion’s share of the blame.
kesmarn : Franken, it is worse than I realized and I didn’t consider myself naive!
FrankenPC : Kes, I agree. Everyone who is rational is completely dissolutioned with the system itself.
kesmarn : b’ito, you got an A minus!
bitohistory : test
kesmarn : I think young people still love O, but have been very disillusioned by the tawdriness of DC.
SueInCa : the trolls are paid to say that to direct the conversation toward a resurgance of the right. i go to school up here and the kids I talk to are still behind him.
boomer1949 : I would like to think HCR will pass. However, there are too many political egos involved, concerned about being reelected, and unwilling to do the right thing because they’d have to give up a “me” perk to do so.
Chernynkaya : Kes-- who knows permanently. But unless he does something pretty radical-- like, I don’t know, trying torturers or something big witht he financial overhaul, I think the left has been rebuffed by him.
Khirad : Yup, I agree Cher and Kes, that’s why he did it first.
FrankenPC : Cher, another problem. Obama is such an idealist I believe HE believes that all he had to do is show the way and everything will fall into place. Capital Hill does not work that way.
Khirad : I hear the concern trolls often say he’s lost the young people. Obama still does remarkably well in my age demographic in polls. I get offended by that.
kesmarn : Franken and Khirad, I think the need and emergency was felt to be so dire…it was a top priority. HCR, I mean.
Chernynkaya : But franken, it was the keystone of his agenda. he could have waited a year, but there were plenty of people who said he had to do it fast.
FrankenPC : Khir, I was rooting as well.
boomer1949 : kes,
Khirad : We did see the problems there, FrankenPC, didn’t we? Honestly, I think he just wanted to get it done early. Sigh…
kesmarn : Cher, permanently lost them?
boomer1949 : Neither can I.
kesmarn : boomer, we’re talking HCR…will it pass?
boomer1949 : Cher,
Chernynkaya : kes, yes-- I believe he has lost the left.
FrankenPC : I believe the cart was thrown before the horse with the HCR bill. Obama and his constituents failed to see the importance of a corruption overhaul before attempting something as grand as health care reform. You have to strip the opponents of power before making a play this large.
boomer1949 : Thanks all!
Chernynkaya : And Boomer, beware-- I can’t type!
SueInCa : they don’t know much, it is not in their make-up to be intellectual
Chernynkaya : Welxome Boomer!
Chernynkaya : The Constitutional challeng IMO is BS and they know it. Let them try. BTW, I think they are really convinced no one wants HCR!
kesmarn : Hey, boomer!
Khirad : Hi boomer!
Khirad : The Repubs sure seem to be all over the place on this parliamentarian. First they don’t like him, now they do…
kesmarn : Cher, were you saying earlier this week that you feared Obama had lost the left?
boomer1949 : I’m here, I’m here. Is this the right place, night and time?
SueInCa : The only way to see is in the finished product. as to constitutional challenge the way I read the 10th is that would be at the state level.
Chernynkaya : Kes, YES!
Chernynkaya : I think the bill will pass. I don’;t honestly know if it will be enough at this point to mollify the base.
Khirad : I know, Cher. I tend to think he knows what he’s talking about. He wants this legislation, I think he’s just being honest. He brings up some problems -- like amending a ghost of a bill.
kesmarn : When the parliamentarian ruled in a way the Repubs didn’t like, didn’t they just fire him and get a new one?
Chernynkaya : O’donnell has been all gloom and doom form the beginning. But too often he is right! He freaks me out all the time!
SueInCa : Khirad i think too many cooks in the kitchen on that one
FrankenPC : Sue, it’s the only way without lobby reform
Khirad : Anyone see Lawrence O’Donnell and what do you think of him? He’s freaking me out on the parliamentary difficulties here.
SueInCa : I agree Franken. Build on a foundation
kesmarn : What I’m hearing from some on the right is that if it passes they will challenge its constitutionalit y.
Chernynkaya : Kes, no problem. We don’t know what we’re doing but wee can do whatever we want! cat’s away and all….
FrankenPC : er now
FrankenPC : Yes. The assumption will be that a base framework bill will be sufficient to build on. And we can forego the real changes for noe.
Chernynkaya : Khirad, you mean hobbled by the cmpromises?
Khirad : I’ll get back to you on my theory of the Beats and 90’s, Kes. Now, on to the topic.
SueInCa : Pass -- yes and votes -- yes. once people see the finished product w/o the lies
kesmarn : Oops, I’ll get back on topic now!
FrankenPC : If it passes, it will be severely hobbled.
kesmarn : My mom was a stay at home. Original hippie. Organic garden, canned and preserved, made her own clothes…
Khirad : I found TDS clip! Yay, I’ll post it in after chat.
Chernynkaya : WE SEEM TO FINALLY BE AT THE END OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM DEBATE. FIRST, DO YOU BELIEVE IT WILL BE PASSED INTO LAW? SECOND, DO YOU THINK THAT, IF IT DOES PASS, THAT THIS LEGISLATION WILL TRANSLATE INTO VOTES FOR DEMOCRATS IN 2010 AND 2012?
Chernynkaya : I’m going to be agood girl and start another topic:
SueInCa : SO DID I CHER, MY DAD ONLY COOKED SCRAMBLED EGGS
Chernynkaya : Fine by me! I love the 50’s. My mom worked too-- as a hairdresser in beverly Hills. I hated that.
kesmarn : Khirad, the 90s? Really? I’d like to hear more.
SueInCa : go for it cher, then we will let you know lol
kesmarn : Cher, it’s kinda fun to do free association!
Chernynkaya : Ahem — Franken--:razz:
Khirad : Beats gave us the 90s IMO.
FrankenPC : There’s a topic? :_D
Chernynkaya : Do I have ADD or should we go to my REAL topic?
SueInCa : My mom was different, she loved to work
kesmarn : Right, KQ, “Beat Generation” alienation and Civil Rights beginnings were sown then.
FrankenPC : Funny, the US was recovering financially from WWII and enjoying the prosperity, but the Oakland shipyards on the West Coast were totally destroyed financially. The war machine needed them no longer.
Chernynkaya : I was just talking to my son about Walt Disney-- he was Uncle Walt to me becasue of his Disney Show every Sunday nite. Our generation has an umreasonable soft spot for him
SueInCa : I guess I will put it on my list, i never saw madmen either
KQuark : Like before the Civil War the seeds of dissent started in the ’50s as well.
kesmarn : Sue--working Moms in the 50s--a rarity!
Khirad : I love Madmen. I’ll have to find it for you Kes. It was truly brilliantly done.
kesmarn : Khirad, never saw the Daily Show thing, but I get the picture!
SueInCa : Khirad the most I remember from the 50’s was romper room and hoola hoops
kesmarn : KQ, yes, that was a major factor, too!
Chernynkaya : Yes, Kes--Madmen really shows the issue
SueInCa : Kes, my mom worked in the 50’s and so did our neighbor, they were nurses
Khirad : Kes, ever see the Daily show take on the fuzzy past? Brilliant! And so true! They all have fuzzy feelings, because they were CHILDREN at the time!
KQuark : The 50’s was so successful because the rest of the West was in ruins over WWII.
FrankenPC : Still are…still are…
kesmarn : 50s were a great time to be a white male, huh? :-
SueInCa : Khirad those people are ignorant. they usually cnnot tell you what they are protesting w/o looking to a friend for answers
FrankenPC : The 1950’s WERE successful because everyone was walking in lock step.
Chernynkaya : Nothing official Khirad-- some LDS higher ups told the Sojourner guy they were sorry.
kesmarn : I think the 1950s are viewed thru a “warm-fuzzy” filter, but lives and careers were destroyed and fear was rampant because of McCarthy.
SueInCa : Beck has alot of people angry, the UCC will condemn him as well.
Khirad : What was it LDS said about Beck? I missed it.
FrankenPC : Yes, everything flowing
Chernynkaya : I think Beck stepped in it this time with the church thing
kesmarn : Everything OK now, Franken?
Khirad : I can’t believe people defending McCarthy (not Gene) with those signs… I blame Coulter…
Chernynkaya : OK I think you guys convinced me. Plus, it does keep the Left focussed on the real enemy!
SueInCa : you bet and they are channeling him all the time, especially beckster
FrankenPC : Ah problems with Firefox blocking…sorry
kesmarn : This feels so much like a McCarthy era situation. (Of course, being only 29, I wouldn’t know firthand.) But he did damage before people wised up. A lot.
KQuark : I thought so wasn’t sure.
Khirad : I saw Daily Show steal AdLib’s Willy Wonka “Imagination” idea, too, KQ. It was spooky.
Chernynkaya : KQ- I just quoted what was in the story Bito posted.
SueInCa : I think Cher KQ
SueInCa : I just think it right to know the enemy and keep book on them when they try to run again, the ammunition is fully loaded
Chernynkaya : Ok, Kes I waver between thinking we spend too much time on them and between thinking they’re not newsworthy
KQuark : How’s it going I was reading on TPM that firebaggers is a new word that is catching on, who said if first on the Planet.
Khirad : Ohh bito, I love koans! Yes Cher, I was tardy!
kesmarn : Hi, Khirad!
kesmarn : Yes, Cher, I think we took them lightly and in the meantime they’ve done some real damage.
Chernynkaya : Khirad, do you mean “prompt?”
Chernynkaya : Yep, Franken, we see and hear you!
Khirad : Wow Cher, you’re quick!
FrankenPC : (bop bop bop) Is this thing on?
Chernynkaya : Hi Khirad!
kesmarn : b’ito, I will be puzzling now forever!
SueInCa : the media did, but mccain is mostly to blame and his crew
Chernynkaya : So Kes, are you saying we should know thy enemy, right/
kesmarn : They’re so ridiculous (to us) that it’s easy to write them off. But there are people who take every word from them as gospel.
Chernynkaya : I sometimes think--with Palin--the media made her a star.
bitohistory : OK, in the mean time. Here is your koan: three in the morning, two in the afternoon.
SueInCa : Personally I want to keep tabs on the creeps, but I am not on those sites much, just to read
kesmarn : There’s a part of me that thinks we ignore them at our peril.
Chernynkaya : The news but with lot’s of clips
SueInCa : They themsleves on there or just the news about them
kesmarn : Sue, if you liked that, there’s loads of other King Singer stuff on YouTube. They’re wonderful.
Chernynkaya : GLENN BECK, RUSH LIMBAUGH AND SARAH PALIN ARE ON MSNBC AND MANY LIBERAL BLOGS ALMOST DAILY. DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH THEM OR SHOULD THEY BE IGNORED?
Chernynkaya : Ok Let’s begin--folks can join in later. I have three topics, here’s the first:
SueInCa : Hi Franken
kesmarn : Hey, Franken! Good to see you!
Chernynkaya : Hay Franken, welcome!
SueInCa : Hiya Kes and Bito thanks for the answer on the acapella
FrankenPC : Good evening folks
kesmarn : Hi, Sue and b’ito!
Chernynkaya : I know Kes-- MAGIC! Hi Bito!
bitohistory : just because … Hello
Chernynkaya : AdLib usually waits a few minutes so I will too.
kesmarn : Hey, Cher! Looks like we made it through the Looking Glass!
Chernynkaya : Hiya Sue!
SueInCa : Hello Cher
Chernynkaya : Hello all, please post a hello when you arrive so we know you’re here!

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Vox Populi Archives

All You Need is Love Songs

Posted by KQuark On March - 19 - 2010167 COMMENTS

With all the hate on display from the other side this week I thought I should make this week’s music thread about love which is by far the subject of most music. It’s not always the positive aspects of love that prevail in the love song genres. Many love songs are about breakups, lose, unrequited love, infidelity, lust, etc…

Probably my favorite love song done by the Beatles. Love and passion are just too hard to explain. There is just “Something” inexplicable about the reasons we romantically love another person.

Sam Cooke is probably my favorite old time crooner of all time. What a “Wonderful Word This Would Be” if every found that one person to love even with all our individual imperfections.

Definitely my favorite love song from the eighties and maybe all time from Peter Gabriel. There is just something in “In Your Eyes” that inexplicable draws one person to another.

One of my favorites from Alicia Keys. I know “(My) Woman’s Worth” more than I could ever describe.

Sometimes there is that unrequited love when you just feel like “Damn I Wish I Was Your Lover” by Sophie B. Hawkins.

Not all infatuation is constructive some love is like a intoxicant that engulfs certain people like the “Perfect Drug” expresses from NIN.

Then there is straight up lust expressed in an interesting remix combining “Come Together” from the Beatles and “Closer” from NIN.

Probably my favorite post relationship breakup song with all the angst you feel after ending a relationship in a bitter manner that “You Ought to Know” by Alanis Morrisette (sorry about the ad at the beginning of the video).

Me I am with Dido I just have to say “Thank You” to the person I love most.

Finally the signature song of this piece “All You Need is Love” by the Beatles.

I will never understand why people choose hate over love. My biggest contention with opponents on issues like same sex marriage and universal healthcare is this God forsaken world needs more love and care for our fellow human beings not less.

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Featured, Friday Music Thread, PlanetPOV

Join Us For Vox Populi Tonight @ 7:00 PM (PST)

Posted by AdLib On March - 19 - 2010ADD COMMENTS

Another edition of Vox Populi is on tap for tonight! Please join us here for this live open chat on the week’s events at 7:00 pm PST.

The link to the Vox Populi page is under Live Events at the top of the page, you can click here to go there now: http://planetpov.com/live-events/vox-populi/

Hope to see you then!

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Vox Populi

Planet Music Night: I Got Ya Covered

Posted by KQuark On March - 12 - 2010230 COMMENTS

When AdLib said he was going out of town I said I would cover the music night thread again since taking a break. So I thought this theme was apropos. I have fun doing the music thread but I just got tired of hearing what I wanted to hear and see what other members taste in music was. I love covers because they are different, not necessarily better than the original and most times not, but just different. The bigger the difference the interpretation from the original song the better.

In My Life – Dave Mathews – Beatles Cover (I could probably do a whole post on Beatles’ covers alone but I stopped at two)

Strawberry Fields Forever – Candy Flip – Beatles Cover

Another Brick in the Wall – KoRn – Pink Floyd Cover

Smells Like Teen Spirit (Remix) – Tori Amos – Nirvana Cover

Message in a Bottle – Sting – The Police (Sting covers his own song)

Billy Jean – Chris Cornell – Micheal Jackson Cover

Stand By Me – Playing for Change – Song Around the World

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Friday Music Thread

SOME POLITCAL LIMERICKS.. SOME BAD… SOME WORSE ;)

Posted by BlueStateMan On March - 12 - 201012 COMMENTS

Trying to refine these a bit..

lemme know what you think..

be BRUTAL!!!!

On SARAH PALIN:

She said she’d attend the Convention.

Old Sarah still craved the attention.

She wrote on her hand,

copped one hundred grand,

then “donated” it to her own pension.

= = = = = = = = = =

She calls for a new revolution,

“We must ply to the strict Constitution”!

When asked what that meant,

her knowledge was spent..

and the rest was just more noise pollution.

= = = = = = = = = =

On CHENEY:

There once was a V.P. named Cheney,

Whose “vision” was bitter & grainy.

He tortured & swore

that we needed a war

but he turned out much worse than Khomeini.

= = = = = = = = = =

(variation)

There’s a putrid old fascist named Cheney

who delights in the concept of pain, he

denies that the cries

that his try’s to baptize

reap just more useless lies than Khomeini.

= = = = = = = = = =

On RACHEL MADDOW vs AARON SCHOCK:

There’s a vapid young freshman named Aaron

whose worldview is woefully barren.

He was clearly miscast

and was tied to the mast

When “Rach” made his world Sub Saharan.

= = = = = = = = = =

There once was a Gooper named Schock

whose spiel was a typical crock.

It was almost a crime

he was given the time

to watch Maddow just clean out his clock.

= = = = = = = = = =

On JOHN BOEHNER:

There’s a GOP lackey named Boehner

Who, for all intents, looks like a stoner,

He’d forgotten his task

to top his hip flask

filled entirely of orange skin toner.

= = = = = = = = = =

The Minority Leader was shaken.

A finger wagging was taken.

So he hemmed & he hawed,

‘tho his snit was a fraud

‘Cause he knew he was no Francis Bacon.

= = = = = = = = = =

On the CPAC CONVENTION:

So, they’re holding a cute, little meeting

where Limbaugh will keep overeating.

Beck will chalk the same croc

Dick will stock an ad-hoc

with Uranium needing depleting.

= = = = = = = = = =

On REPUBLICAN OBSTRUCTION:

All they want is to block & obstruct

any progress they feel should be chucked.

They’d rather still stay

then betray their cliche

of a time when their “values” just sucked.

= = = = = = = = = =

They bleat & they fete for “more jobs”.

They lob “blobs of green gobs” at the mobs.

Yet when Bills are proposed

their minds stay clamped closed

so they’ll recommence humping Lou Dobbs.

= = = = = = = = = = =

On HEALTH CARE REFORM:

They strive for a new “Waterloo”

by giving our Health Bill the flu.

But their pale rail will fail

as this ship has set sail

so we’ll bid their stale milieu adieu.

= = = = = = = = = = =

The wingers were set to make merry..

Our Bill they were ready to bury.

But then came this “twist”,

Some new grain for the grist.

Punked AGAIN, were they?

“Yes indeed, VERY!”

= = = = = = = = = = =

On GLENN BECK:

There’s this broadcast bufffoon known as Glenn,

who prays to the DEV!L (amen!).

He insights racial fights

‘tll some fan kills non-whites

which come to pass not “if” but WHEN.

= = = = = = = = = =

On NEWT GINGRICH:

There’s a throwback right winger named Newt

whose delusions remain so acute

that he inks what he thinks

will prove links he thinks stinks

but his foot, in the end, he will shoot.

= = = = = = = = = =

On BIPARTISANSHIP, the GOP CAUCUS & the HEALT CARE SUMMIT:

“Can’t we all get along?”, asked the Pres..

but they couldn’t care less what he says.

They’ll admit they don’t fit

& will quit with a snit

just like Lucy & Desi Arnaz.

= = = = = = = = = =

(variation)

“Let’s discuss this out front”, said the Pres..

but they couldn’t care less what he says.

When they cease to transmit,

they just quit with a snit

just like Lucy & Desi Arnaz.

= = = = = = = = = = =

On RON PAUL:

There once was a looney named Paul

who would like-minded loonies entrall.

He’d replace the black race

just in case they’d erase

his delusional masquerade ball.

= = = = = = = = = =

On COLIN POWELL’S DISCLOSURES:

We had a great General named Powell

who needed to throw in the towel.

His supply of a lie

went awry (my oh my)

Now he’s paying Dick back with a vowel.

= = = = = = = = = =

On JIM BUNNING:

There’s a putrid old winger named Bunning

who feels unemployed people need shunning.

His crusade to cease aid

I’m afraid did cascade

to his running when people came gunning.

= = = = = = = = = =

On JOHN KYL:

= = = = = = = = = =

There once was a winger named, KYL

who was to all working people hostile.

He believes they are thieves

as he weaves his pet peeves

into a mountainous steaming coiled pile.

= = = = = = = = = = =

&.. last but not least.. BART STUPAK:

A Congressional throwback named Stupak

who constantly flacks through his butt-crack

his tack to set back

womens rights with a whack

is just merely a hack at his nut-sac.

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Humor, News & Politics, Observations, PlanetPOV

Site Maintenance Underway – Now Completed!

Posted by AdLib On March - 11 - 201022 COMMENTS

Just a head’s up, we’ve had a few tech issues at the site lately. I’m working on it currently and it may disrupt usage at the site occasionally.

Thanks for your patience!

UPDATE:

Maintenance has been completed, thanks for your patience!

UPDATE 2:

Whoops! Still have the problem of good comments being held as Spam. I’m back at work so again, thanks for your patience with the disruptions that may occur on the site while I try to fix this.

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PlanetPOV

Vox Populi – 3-5-2010

Posted by AdLib On March - 8 - 2010ADD COMMENTS

AdLib is online.

AdLib : Patsy – I was actually surprised that it wasn’t already taken.
Khirad : Excellent news on the URL. See you guys on the other side.
PatsyT : See you there
AdLib : Well, looks like we’ve reached the end of tonight’s Vox Populi! The chat can continue at the connected post here: «link»
PatsyT : I like the name and the site name
AdLib : To begin, it will be hosted at WordPress. Funds will need to be raised to host it independently. Though, the voting is clear, GROWdemocracy.or g is the most popular so I have gone ahead and secured that URL.
PatsyT : Will that be a . org ?
Khirad : Ooh, inside scoop.
AdLib : Night Kes!
AdLib : Psst…I’ve already setup a free Wordpress site for GROW as GROWdemocracy but I’m waiting until we’ve firmed up everything to announce it formally.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes
kesmarn : Good night, all! “Always look on the bright si-ide of life, ta-dum ta-dum!”
PatsyT : I bet there is a pill for that
PatsyT : GROW is really growing on me
kesmarn : GROW has tremendous potential I think. We owe j’avaz for that one!
Khirad : Well, click-clack (Python) and goodnight kes!
PatsyT : Hey Kes you have fought the good fight
AdLib : My 6 year old thinks Python is very funny. Just watched a Tivo’d episode tonight.
kesmarn : Well, as old Dubya used to say, I’m starting to lose altitude. I may have to call it a day, friends. (After midnight here.)
AdLib : Who knows, if GROW works out, we could crosspost videos of our satirical protests on YouTube, GROW’s site and Funny or Die.
PatsyT : My kids are watching Monty Python Holy Grail
PatsyT : OK in the great here after
AdLib : Patsy – You can post links to videos here but not embedded. I will be setting up the AfterChat article, you could post them there.
Khirad : Yes, we saw the Funny or Die. Too bad Phil Hartman is no longer with us…
kesmarn : Oh…hi there, AdLib…didn’t see you come back in the room. Heh-heh.
PatsyT : Can I post vids on here ?
kesmarn : Did you see the “Funny or Die” one of all the Presidents Past visiting Obama and Michelle in their Whitehouse bedroom?
AdLib : I’m back now, I’ll just sit in my chair…hey who put a tack on it? And quit throwing those spitballs! Get off your desks this instant! You’re all in a lot of trouble now!
PatsyT : I’ll look it up and post very funny
Khirad : What Gilly skit?
kesmarn : Patsy, didn’t see the Gilly skit. Tell!
PatsyT : That costco is a trip
Khirad : Behind the gym – ouch, I got caught – not another detention!
kesmarn : Not me. It was Khirad. And he won’t share what he’s smoking either.
PatsyT : Has Anyone seen that Gilly skit on SNL
kesmarn : Maybe we can bake some into brownies for Sister Sarah!
PatsyT : Who is smoking? you are going to get it!
PatsyT : Hey that slug stuff looks like it can work for Rush and bushes brain that rove slug
kesmarn : Here, Snailie, Snailie!! Here, boy! Try some of this yummy stuff!
PatsyT : Kes Thats the ticket !! Hey mitch…
kesmarn : I’m chewing gum. A whole pack of it!
PatsyT : I am jumping on the table YIPPEE
kesmarn : Patsy, let’s buy some of that and make an appointment with Mitch McConnell.
Khirad : LOL Patsy! Yes kes, teacher’s away!
kesmarn : Oh wow, now we can really go nuts and act up!
PatsyT : Kh at Costco the other day I saw a huge palette of some stuff they labeled SLUG AND SNAIL DEATH They are selling Death !! at a discount , of course
AdLib : Have to pop away for a few minutes, will be right back…
kesmarn : Patsy, you’re right. The Baggers are mad at all the wrong people. And a lot of the people they’re mad at are the ones who aren’t in a particularly good position to fight back.
AdLib : Night Cher!
Khirad : Online communications hone my arguments in the real world too. Particularly when battling a slightly more capable troll.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Cher
kesmarn : Good night, Cher!
Khirad : Bye Cher!
AdLib : Patsy – I see the CoffeeParty thing the same way, well intentioned but no focus, way too general and kumbaya for my taste. Accept that there are rotten people out there who you can’t work with, band together to become a force for good and don’t expect that you can bring everyone together. You can’t.
PatsyT : The Baggers need to be mad a Haliburton Exxon ect not Obama
kesmarn : Thanks, AdLib! I know that people may question the value of on-line organizing, but, like c’lady, I find that the Planet has changed the way I go out into the world and operate or debate issues. Feels different when people have got your back.
Chernynkaya : Sorry friends, I keep getting called away! I must bid you all adieu for now.
Khirad : Haha, Costco! Not bad Patsy. We really have to be better explaining things in accessible terms like that.
AdLib : Kes – I’m very grateful too to have this community to discuss ideas and consider what we can do. Cheers to you and all Planeteers!
PatsyT : Notice with Obama we have not had any huge gas $$ spikes?
kesmarn : You said it, Khirad! Exactly!
AdLib : Patsy – I had an emotional reaction of anger every time I saw or see a Hummer and even though soccer moms are driving them sometimes, it took a lot of discipline not to say something angry. And remember, Bush and the Repubs put through a law giving people a $5,000 tax break for buying a Hummer!
Khirad : The “invisible hand” and Capitalism really are like an organized religion. Only, more like a pyramid scheme of a cult sometimes.
kesmarn : The internet really has been a godsend in uniting people of like minds. I’m so grateful to be in this group that allows us to strategize and brainstorm. There’s not much going on locally.
PatsyT : Say aren’t these bagger types the kind that like Costco, Sams Club, Walmart, they like have collective buying cant they think of the Public Option that way?
Chernynkaya : Agree Patsy– it seems to be nothing but a very smart name.
kesmarn : It’s amazing how difficult it is to de-program people who’ve been trained from childhood to believe that Capitalism is perfect. That the “invisible hand” always works to everyone’s benefit. It’s almost heresy to suggest otherwise. Certainly considered unpatriotic.
PatsyT : That
PatsyT : Tat Coffee thing does not go far enough
AdLib : Kes – The Baggers are proof. Get people riled up enough and they will become active and the numbers will grow. It would be a pseudo-revolutio n and the internet would be key because the MSM would hide such a thing as they did the anti-war protests against launching the Iraq War.
kesmarn : The numbers would have to be huge, as you say, AdLib. But–it’s true–people are getting desperate enough to consider options they wouldn’t have a few years ago.
PatsyT : Hummer- that really summed it up -I can see it now in the History books as the height of gluttony and greed
AdLib : This is why I think the concept behind GROW is not only timely but the key issue to solving the rot that is destroying this nation.
Chernynkaya : Yes Kes– Pogo said it!
AdLib : Kes, there are not enough Sheriff Joes nor enough prisons to stop 10 million Americans, let alone 100 million. If things get worse for people and better for corps, no amount of policing can stop such a movement, really, a revolution.
Khirad : Patsy, hey at least the Hummer is no more. I thought I’d never see that day.
kesmarn : That’s more accurate, Cher. In effect they say: “We have met the enemy is he is us.” But HE isn’t!! He’s the guy in the top 1% of the wealth owners.
AdLib : Sad that America has gone from “The Greatest Generation” volunteering to join the military to fight Hitler and the mindless masses can’t even focus long enough to remember to oppose the Corps that have taken away their salaries, democracy, kid’s futures, etc.
PatsyT : I see a lot of that competition in our neighborhood the biggest SUV’s driven around by moms with one little kid talking on their cell Ugh!
Chernynkaya : Yes, Kes, but I don;t think they blame themselves– they blame THE POOR! They blame the other schmuck in the same boat and if they themselves are no in trouble, they get to be smug. They never blame the right places becasue, yes, tou are right– too scary!
kesmarn : But AdLib, there are a lot of Sheriff Joes out there, willing to pull out the tasers, the clubs and the weapons to protect the property of the wealthy.
AdLib : Cher – So do I but hopefully as people in the streets taking over the HQ’s of Citibank and B of A and Goldman and occupying the homes, boats and jets of all of them. Take it away from them without violence and don’t budge.
kesmarn : Cher, exactly! Because hearing the truth means that there are big bad powerful forces that we are going to have to take on, and that scares people. It’s almost easier to blame themselves. Then they can just get high and try to forget about it all.
PatsyT : tip off like GOLDman SACKS
Chernynkaya : Khirad, pls see my reply ot Kes below.
PatsyT : blank fine, the name, should have been a tip off
Chernynkaya : Adlib– I hope that happens!!!
kesmarn : Patsy, we could start by putting Lloyd Blankfein in prison! (CEO of Goldman-Sachs)
Chernynkaya : Kes, people believe that because it is too painful to believ the truth. No one wants to hear anything that osen;t confrm to their ready-made opinions. No one is open to any inconvenient truths and that cowardice is our undoing.
AdLib : The thing is, people have used up so much of their available home equity and credit, the banks have cut their credit and don’t want to offer more…and that was what people were using to live The American Dream since their wages have been declining. The buffer is mostly gone so if there is another economic crash or Corps think they can keep robbing from the public, there will be a reckoning.
Khirad : Economic woes do arouse anger and unrest – but why is it focused at all the wrong things? This goes back to the original topic.
PatsyT : Where do we go from here ??
kesmarn : Patsy nailed it: short term memory loss. Plus a good job of brain washing by the right. People now believe that it was only irresponsible borrowers who burst the bubble. That people on unemployment are just lazy. And that HCR is a socialist plot.
Chernynkaya : The public is an ass. And back to your original question about hate and suicide killers: What if those crazies killed a CEO? I am afraid I would cheer.
Khirad : How can people be against both bailouts AND regulation? …
AdLib : Remember when the crash had just happened, corporate CEOs were hiding out, hiring bodyguards, the public demanded reform and everyone promised to do it. Now that things aren’t supposedly so bad and people have calmed down, these same corps who were saved with taxpayer money have been doing everything they can to kill HCR and regulation…and the public is divided on siding with them!
kesmarn : We’re so bloody confrontation-av erse!
Chernynkaya : Adlib, agree totally. That’s just the American psyche. I wish we’d never bailed out the banks and all suffered then and now, instead of lingering pain.
kesmarn : Hah! We’re on the same page, AdLib!
kesmarn : Patsy, yes, and I think the left needs to take a look at the work ethic in some areas. For example, organizing unions is harder that job-surfing and stealing from your employer. But it works out better in the long run.
AdLib : Cher – Going back to what you and others discussed before, I think it will take an even worse crash and suffering for Americans to get off their overstuffed asses and go out in the streets to take democracy back. That is a terrible thing to wish for, I hope it’s not the case but unless people are starving and can’t afford a Snuggy, let alone prescription meds, they just won’t take the necessary steps.
Khirad : I think I worked on something that was more technical (I forget, but it involved looking through a lot of Greek vocab and polisci terms), but plutocracy is generally agreed upon.
PatsyT : They have sold the Americans the thought that you should not have to work hard for anything and there is a pill for that what ever that is. Remember when Bush used to say he was working hard? Ha Ha Corporations do not want to have to work hard for anything they want the red carpet laid out for them but want the welfare state to get to work no matter how hard that may be
kesmarn : Khirad, security was called on that one!
Chernynkaya : I do not disagree! But that means we need a leader as never before.
kesmarn : We are absolutely living in a plutocracy.
Khirad : Wow, kes, someone was in need of inpatient treatment followed by NA – forthwith!
AdLib : Does anyone disagree that we’re living in a plutocracy?
Chernynkaya : aDLIB That is just do depressing. It is so hard not to turn off, but unfortunately, I cannot just watch American Idol-too boring!
AdLib : Patsy – Isn’t that what the whole Pharma industry is built on, the lie that merged into the American Dream? That you can have it all and never have to work for anything, you can just push a button or take a pill.
kesmarn : AdLib, I saw that movie. It was brilliant. Yes, the total arrogance of the plutocrats. Didn’t even attempt to disguise what they were doing!
Khirad : AdLib, that reminds me of INGSOC’s view of the proles…
PatsyT : One of those big Phama ads for quitting smoking
AdLib : kes – In Moore’s film “Capitalism”, he shares a leaked Citibank memo to its biggest investors which explains that the U.S. is already a de facto plutocracy with no real threat in sight. The memo added that technically, the public could take the country back if they banded together as a majority but they didn’t seem to worried about that happening. The GOP is serving them well, in this environment we might have all come together to bring the corps down to size which is why the division has to be more intense from the corporate stooges, the GOP.
kesmarn : Patsy, that’s it in a nutshell. I had a patient this past week say that he was going to come back to the hospital and kill me if he didn’t get discharged with a handfull of prescriptions for narcotics. Demand and ye shall receive. (He didn’t get them.)
Chernynkaya : Patsy– great comment and I so agree! But what were you referring to?
PatsyT : Me Me Me I am sick of it! How about that quit smoking ad where the woman says I can take Chantix and Smoke at the same time Ohhh so you can quit and smoke at the same time -not to worry -you do not have to work at anything You can smoke and Quit at the same time so easy for you
kesmarn : I didn’t see the interview, Khirad. But I know what quants are and I understand they have NOT gone away. Not good.
Khirad : Yeah, the CC thing I’ve heard, too.
Khirad : Who saw the interview with the writer of The Quants? These guys are still on Wall St…
kesmarn : AdLib, the bottom line is that they (Wall St.) believe they are more powerful than the government and all the citizenry, then? That’s a daunting thought!
AdLib : Oh, I forgot to mention that Michael Moore also mentioned the enormous credit card debt as another crash waiting to happen, debt that can never be repaid and is continuing to increase in record amounts.
Chernynkaya : Yeah, adlib– they can always do better with a corporatist administration than with the Dems
AdLib : Kes – If they had that concern, they wouldn’t have driven the economy off a cliff. They have utter faith in greed and being too big to fail countering democracy, fairness and an angry public.
Chernynkaya : Kes– that’s my question too. The middle class is almost broke, and in debt up to its eyeballs. WHo is gonna buy all the useless crap they want and need to sell us? Or, is the new market going to be credit? No more goods, just credit and carbon credits?
kesmarn : Sigh. True. Wall St. has enough golden eggs in the freezer to outlast the total destruction of the country itself…
Khirad : And, imagine what would happen to the market if Obama did come down hard? I think they have his balls in a vicegrip – pardon my salty imagery.
AdLib : Cher – The greedy don’t think about what they have, they focus on what they don’t have and want. They have no sense of conscience or gratitude. They know a Repub Congress and president will loosen regulations and happily cut their taxes.
Khirad : Painglish = a condition of pidgin poop issuing forth from the mouth of a Hollywood-obsess ed closet-elitist wannabe.
kesmarn : AdLib–do those Wall St. guys have any idea, though, what it means to “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?” At what point do they self-destruct?
AdLib : Cher – Yes, Rahm is very much responsible for running all the Blue Dogs and ConservaDems and getting them in as saboteurs and extortionists in Congress. He fought and hated Howard Dean who believed that real Dems could win in all 50 states. Dean was right but Rahm undermined him.
kesmarn : Patsy, it worked for Dubya!
Chernynkaya : Adlib– they (banks) are doing pretty good w/ Obama as prez, no?
kesmarn : Cher, that was a big, nasty splash of cold water in my face too. Grrrrr.
Khirad : That’s not so woo-woo AdLib, actually.
PatsyT : Kes – Palinglish a new weapon
Chernynkaya : It was areal wake up for me to realize we’d won with a phoney majority of DINO’s. we have no majority, just dome REPtilians who didn’t want to run as R’s after Bush, so Rahm scooped em up and said come to Papa! Now, we are more screwed because expectations were that we were actually in power.
Khirad : This is what is so frustrating. They are arguing against their own HC plan now, and people are so dense not to get it. Eff them and do it. When the USSA doesn’t come, they’ll feel stupid (okay, I’m being way too generous).
PatsyT : But the lies have an after bite look out repubs
AdLib : Not to be a conspiracy therorist but if the banks and Wall Street want a Repub in as president, wouldn’t it make sense for them, if they’re in a position to, let the hammer drop on a new economic crash in 2012, before the election?
kesmarn : Things are still pretty dire, after “only” the first dip. Hard to imagine what might follow another one. And I can’t believe they killed that measley $250 bill for Soc Sec recipients who did not get a COLA increase this year!
PatsyT : They have figured how to confound us by hypnotizing us with lies like the chicken with the a chalk line in the road
Khirad : Yes Cher, AFTER 2012.
Chernynkaya : This will sound terrible, but that second dip may be the kick we need to demand more stim. I hope it comes after 2012 tho!
AdLib : Look, the Repubs have come out against the very plans they supported for HCR just months ago and even call them unconstitutional now. They are lying sacks of shit so they need to be ignored and Dems need to get spinal transplants and just say, “Fuck ‘em!”
kesmarn : Patsy, you’re right. We try to be logical and reasonable and then we get Palinglish thrown back at us and the only response is: “HUH??”
Khirad : I think the focus should be on getting rid of our own a-holes too. I saw the Arkansan challenger. Don’t know much about him, but he was photogenic and well-spoken. He could win general, possibly.
PatsyT : It would help if they were firm in their beliefs
Chernynkaya : Patsy — Yes! Forget the R! Do what ever you think is right!
kesmarn : Seriously, AdLib? I missed that. Moore’s very sharp; which make that prediction even scarier.
Khirad : A “double-dip” I fear would be catastrophic – on the human level AND political.
AdLib : Moore also said that he expects more economic crashes, that the commercial real estate crash hasn’t been accounted for yet.
PatsyT : Cher I feel that the dems go out with what they think should be a airtight argument and the repub always pull a lie out of their A– and confuse them – — How do you anticipate the next lie — Maybe by sticking to your principals ??
Chernynkaya : (Still ranting) seriously, why do the Progs spend so much energy on the MINORITY Party? We do have to pay attention to elections, but we have allowed them to define our debates from Nov. to today. We spend so much air time analyzing those fucks, but what about our own assholes? It upsets me.
kesmarn : Right, AdLib. The right views us the same way they view their donors. “What a bunch of suckers!”
Khirad : Yeah, I saw Moore’s comments. Like, at least the GOP has cojones when in power.
kesmarn : Someone posted some comments by Michael Moore today on the Planet to the effect that the left really needs to stop being invertebrate. Moore is pissed.
Khirad : Yeah, Cher, I think we should be more scared of them regaining power than scared of what will happen if we grow a spine. That’s the difference for me.
AdLib : Cher – So with you on the wimpy, “What will the Repubs say about us?” bullshit that Dems use to make decisions. Let me make this easy for Dem politicians, “THE REPUBLICANS WILL KICK YOU IN THE BALLS WHATEVER YOU DO!”
kesmarn : AdLib has pretty much convinced me. At some point Rahm needs to go overboard.
Chernynkaya : Khirad– one of my beefs is that we on the Left spend far too much time thinking about waht the Right will do. Fuck em hard! I mean who really cares? They should be irrelevant! Yet that’s all we talk about– Plain, Beck and the other anuses. We have out own problems and we allow ourselves to constantly talk about the R’s! I don’t mean “US” i mean the left.
Khirad : “Impotent rage”. I love it.
Khirad : Reshuffling the cabinet is coming, but not sooner than Nov. I’m curious who else could go. Will he cave in to Arianna, too?
kesmarn : I think a HCR victory would go a long way toward taking the wind out of the RW sails. They might get angry, but it would be a sort of impotent rage. (Maybe that’s nothing new!)
AdLib : Khirad – I think the baggers would lose all their funding at that point since its coming from the GOP faithful, then they’d fall apart.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– very good pt, didn’;t think of that.
Khirad : The more the RW bellyaches, the more they revive anger and attacking the parliamentarian, shows me we may be closer than we think. The more they shout, the closer we are, I hope. What a “victory” would do? Would it make them angrier or deflate them?
PatsyT : This country has a bad case of Short term Memory loss
Chernynkaya : Yeah, Cheney’s too rotten to die.
AdLib : Cher – I think it’s now a strength v. weakness thing with Rahm going. If Obama even was to consider firing him in the near term, he would look weak and like he is folding to Sarah Palin and the GOP. I’ve heard that it couldn’t happen sooner than after the election this Nov, even if he wanted to which I agree, he doesn’t seem to want to do.
kesmarn : Did Cheney ever get out of the hospital? I’ve been out of the news loop for a few days.
kesmarn : Good point, Khirad!
Khirad : How fast would the “non-partisan” teabaggers disappear if Obama lost? I’m sorry for even raising the possibility – just a hypothetical to think about.
AdLib : I am totally fine with Obama not being seen as a shoe in for a 2nd term. Worrying about a return to Bush’s America under Romney will be a real motivator, no matter how upset folks are with Obama.
PatsyT : Cheney has been wrong about many things before !
Chernynkaya : Adlib, yes Rahm but his boss still likes him, so why blame Rahm ( that asshole?0 Why not accept that Obama is keeping him. We’ll see after the HCR vote. Rahm might not deliver and be chopped liver.
kesmarn : The Rs are so hate-able. Bring the country to ruin and then be totally unrepentant about it. Follow that up by fanning flames of hostility. Altogether bad people.
PatsyT : If people give into the RW crap -Cheney saying that he will be a one term pres- they just hand it over the the RW Yuck !
Khirad : Exactly Cher. The purists have yet to convince me against voting and working to elect the better alternative.
AdLib : President Romney? Reversal of HCR if it gets passed? De-regulation of the economy and tax cuts for the rich? I can’t imagine that people have already forgotten what happened during the Bush years.
Chernynkaya : I am still highly motivated by my hatred of the R to knock on doors to defeat the Pugs.
kesmarn : Patsy, that’s very encouraging news!
Khirad : I hope that Lincoln is taken down, that would be a victory for a re-enthused Left.
kesmarn : Cher, my son would definitely vote for Obama again. He just doubts that he would be able to win.
Chernynkaya : aDLIB, MAYBE. But there is so much love lost now, and so much bitterness that i see and hear towards O, I don;t think this HCR will go far enough to appease the Left.
Khirad : There’s no question that I’ll vote, and who I’ll vote for, but will I be as enthused to make calls and knock on doors? I don’t know…
PatsyT : I have more faith in Obama and his safety because every year there is a new group of 18 year olds that can vote and they are poling for Obama 66 %
kesmarn : Cher–yes, the RW organizes and funds the demos, then objects when Pelosi calls them astroturf!
Chernynkaya : My son is more patient with Obama– but he too may sit out 2012.
AdLib : Cher – Obama has lost the major enthusiasm from the left (thanks to Rahm IMO) but if he can get HCR passed and financial regulations, if it’s him against Romney in 2012, the left will be re-energized I think.
Chernynkaya : Kes, I agree, but the R is well funded by the likes of freedom Works. We have no funding. The RW pays for busses and actually, there really weren’t more than maybe 15k-20k at the protests.
Khirad : Grijalva put it perfectly. How can we not pass some form of HCR and expect to pass stuff in the future? Well, he put it much more eloquently, but as a pure practical matter, we need to get something to build other legislation from. Otherwise, I fear early lame-duckitude.
kesmarn : My 24 year old son was a very early and ardent supporter of Obama, but he’s resigned to his being a one-termer now, he tells me.
AdLib : Khirad – You have an excellent point. Imagine if a group of black men with guns cruised into Fox News offices. Would Glenn Beck be slapping their backs or cowering under his desk. See, safety is white people having guns.
kesmarn : I guess–regarding demonstrations– I’m just thinking how hard it would be for so many people I know to go to D.C. for example–time and money-wise.
Chernynkaya : Adlib, it is too little too late for the base. I hate to say that but believe it. Obama has lost the left.
AdLib : Cher – I can’t blame any Dems for feeling demoralized. It will help if HCR is passed and if that is built on to pass bank reforms and other Dem issues.
Chernynkaya : Kes- I don’t think so. There are PLENTY out of wk. Real unemployment is over 20%
kesmarn : Wow. Chilling to see the prediction about the 2d term, but perhaps very realistic, too?
Khirad : Can anyone imagine if liberals started packing heat? Like, how unpatriotic that would be seen as from FOX? Like the Black Panthers and Weathermen? But, when RW’s do it, its practicing their Constitutional Freedoms and guarding against “Tyranny”…
Chernynkaya : Yes adlib– He is a walking bulls eye! I cannot think about it, but if pressed, I’d be surprised he survives a 2nd term.
kesmarn : Cher, I’ve wondered if part of the reason the left doesn’t organize protests is that we are (many of us) still employed. Baggers are an older demographic?
PatsyT : I was glad to see the Education protest in CA this week at the UC’s
AdLib : If there were zombies, the GOP would stampede to patronize them and get their votes. They’d have to add cannibalism to their platform…if it’s not already part of it.
Chernynkaya : But I am actually less upset by the expected violence than I am by the LACK of violence form the Left. I don’t really mean that but I want some real protests, yet believe we are too demoralized to fight!
AdLib : My fear, and I don’t scare easily, is that the threats against Obama are probably multiplying and more possible now.
kesmarn : And of course, Cher, everyone is armed these days. I even hear people on the left saying that they’re going to start packing heat.
PatsyT : Lion and Tigers and Zombies oh my !
Chernynkaya : I do expect many more hate crimes if not suicide attacks. I expect more mass shootings.
Khirad : Kes, I know, multitasking is a bit hard to do, but I can still manage!
PatsyT : Going Zombie
AdLib : Patsy – zombies, Repubs, Baggers, how do you tell them apart?
PatsyT : Palins next book
Khirad : Okay, I was wondering to do it now or later. Now is good – it pertains to our topic. «link»
kesmarn : Khirad, how do you do research and type here at the same time? I can barely focus on the five subjects here!
AdLib : Khirad – You can post the link here, it will appear as “link” but it will be saved here for people to go back to after this edition is over.
PatsyT : I thought we were talking Zombies
Chernynkaya : Kes, he tells me it’s a global problem; that other countries aren’t exactly begging for Americans to take their jobs, and as for Canada, he believes they are only doing well becasue they have a big neighbor to the south. he won’t leave.
kesmarn : A 9000 pound ham, stomping in from Alaska. I can see it now, Patsy.
Khirad : Found the Rachel clip. Phew. It’s about the religious right & militias and how unpatriotic they are.
PatsyT : Laugh of Die !
AdLib : So, to get back to whatever the topic is, do you expect more of these suicide attacks to come? WIll they rise in frequency? Could the more that happen encourage more to follow?
PatsyT : Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger Women doing STAND UP ?-?- RUN !!!
Chernynkaya : Oooh that’s a good one Ad. We need to come up with a bunch f those! Maybe for the video? Zoms are hot now.
Khirad : As it should, kes, as it should. I am a little proud that Raúl Grijalva was on MSNBC today, though (co-chair of Progressive Caucus from South/West Tucson).
kesmarn : Cher, I’m presenting the glories of Canada to my kids.
kesmarn : Zombie’s have better make up?
Chernynkaya : Zombies flush the toilst?
AdLib : One actually wants brains.
Chernynkaya : Well, I do despair for the US. I tried to convince my kid to move somewhere else last night, ot no avail.
AdLib : What’s the difference between a zombie and a Republican.
kesmarn : Arizona scares the living hell out of me.
AdLib : Khirad – Saw that silliness with McCain trying to use racism with being Photoshopped into an Avatar character. What a desperate, lying, nasty human being…each of them are.
kesmarn : This has the makings of a great 1950’s sci fi movie poster. Time to call WTS.
PatsyT : Kes except the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger MIGHT JUST BE HER !!! ARRRRRghggh
kesmarn : AdLib, it took me a full 30 seconds to get that. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, but I’ve managed to do it.
Khirad : LOL AdLib, punmeisters beware!
Chernynkaya : Adlib– OUCH!
AdLib : Thanks Cher! I was afraid I’d have to moderate myself for going OT!
kesmarn : Patsy–one time when we could use Palin with helicopter and rifle!
AdLib : That protest was Bunning the candle at both ends.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– Zombies= the rage virus= RW hate machine+ militias. See? It is on the topic!
PatsyT : Attack of the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger !!!
kesmarn : Bunning sure didn’t help anybody with his histrionics this past week.
AdLib : Cher – Yes, the GOP are like kids playing with matches that have set a forrest fire that can burn down their homes too. They have so infuriated people that they just blindly hate now. ALL politicians and parties!
Chernynkaya : Anyone see Zombieland? Adlib, you are a zombie-baiter!
PatsyT : This all goes back to the lack of opportunity for the middle class How can we get that message across?
kesmarn : I hope you’re right, AdLib. I hope unemployed Dems w/out health care don’t get so mad they’ll vote for any zombie bagger out there.
Chernynkaya : Why not? They’re brain dead.
AdLib : Hey, maybe the Zombie can be the mascot for the Baggers!
Chernynkaya : Uh Oh, AdlIb. You mentioned zombies. I have a lot to say about that! I will try to keep on topic now.
AdLib : Kes – Any district crazy enough to elect a Bagger would elect a Repub and never a Dem. That’s fine because it takes a seat away from the GOP.
Khirad : Will do, Kes.
kesmarn : Khirad, would appreciate it if you can find the F. Schaeffer vid. I love that guy.
Khirad : Anyone see the Hayworth ad against McCain with the Na’vi reference, and then McCain’s people shot back that they were insulting Amerindians? …not that Amerindians have any impact on the Arizonan GOP primary (!) – but it was not-so-subtly calling Hayworth people racists.
Chernynkaya : “The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right.” If the SPLC can be believed, it’s gone way beyond that. The militias HATE ALL govt. Repubs too. The “Patriots” are actually anti-American as we know it.They have gotten so mad that they do not trust any Party.
PatsyT : AdLib I have some childrens book with that same story
AdLib : Patsy, like having a baby Zombie that grows to adulthood in months.
kesmarn : But–OMG–AdLib. ..what if they actually get elected!
kesmarn : Patsy–the new pet being a boa constrictor!
AdLib : What’s hilarious is that the Baggers are putting up rivals to the GOP and splitting the vote on the right. We can only hope that they run them in Nov too!
Khirad : Frank was brilliant. I’ll try to find the video when we end here.
PatsyT : was Frank S on this week ?
kesmarn : Missed F. Schaeffer unfortunately. And you are so right, AdLib!
Chernynkaya : I dont know for sure if their fear campaign is having an effect, because we only hear about the wingers on the R. Is the great middle affected or even turned off by the RW? I hope so! Sometimes I am surprised by the SANITY of the voters.
PatsyT : AdLib like that new pet so cutte at first but when it gets big and the luster has worn off…
Khirad : Anyone see Frank Schaeffer on Rachel?
kesmarn : I think the Repubs think these disaffected people are gonna vote Repub, but they might discover that some genuine Brown Shirt loonies get elected as “conservatives ” or “independents. “
AdLib : The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right. The GOP figured they’d just patronize those rubes to get their votes then eventually had their party taken over by them. Now, history is repeating itself with the teabaggers.
PatsyT : Kes Pandora’s Box is right . . .
Khirad : Kes, they’re playing with fire, that much is clear.
AdLib : Cher – What I mean is that they claim their actions in whipping up anger is not responsible for doctors being assassinated for performing abortions or people making death threats against Obama…yet they continue to whip up people. What I mean is that they are so transparently dishonest, if it doesn’t work, why keep doing it?
kesmarn : They embrace ‘em, Khirad, at the same time that they have contempt for ‘em. Have they opened Pandora’s Box?
Chernynkaya : As far as the RW spin machine, if a few lone wolves cause havoc– well, necessary losses. As long as they regain power.
Khirad : I don’t know kes, they’ve embraced the tiger, with that whole fundraising memo.
PatsyT : You can watch American I’m Dull no thanks
kesmarn : Sometimes I get the feeling that the RW is beginning to realize they are “riding the tiger” with these tea baggers. The tail is starting to wag the dog. They’re losing control of their “minions.”
PatsyT : The lack of the Fairness Doctrine isn’t helping
AdLib : kes – This is a pattern we’ve seen repeatedly, anything that leads people to question what they think is the status quo, is swept under the rug. Or the Snuggy, so we can all just go back to watching American Idol in peace.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– do you mean why is the RW promoting fear?
Khirad : Yes, whatever happened to these stories in the MSM?
Chernynkaya : Hard to say. I think it’s likely– black prez, economy, Fox whipping them up and the RNC promoting fear. So yeah, there are more hate groups– 244% more and something’s bound to happen.
kesmarn : Khirad, do you notice that the MSM in general seem to have “disappeared” the whole Austin suicide pilot story?
PatsyT : Mitzi cool !
AdLib : At the same time they’re promoting hatred, the RW are indeed silent and dismissive of its effect. If it had no effect, why are they doing it?
PatsyT : Kh you have a great point !
kesmarn : People like Beck and Limbaugh definitely have a hand in cranking these people up, I think.
Chernynkaya : Sorry Patsy– got a call– she looked like Mitzi gaynor.
AdLib : Sorry, sent the first version before it was finished, ignore the first version.
Khirad : Why are right-wingers so silent? Isn’t that what we demand of Muslims?
AdLib : TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS? IS IT GOING TO BE AN ONGOING TRICKLE? WILL IT BECOME A FLOOD?
kesmarn : Why do I crave filet mignon and bacon every Friday?
PatsyT : Kes lay off the fish
AdLib : TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS A TRICKLE THAT
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! I’m dazed and confused as usual on Friday night. Too much fish. Too much mercury.
PatsyT : Hi Kes !
kesmarn : I’ve been wandering around like a poster child for Alzheimer’s trying to find everyone. Expect no brilliance from me tonight! Hi, everyone!
PatsyT : Cher I will have to look later who did you say your mom looked like?
Khirad : Ever try to multitask when chatting here? Even now it’s not so easy…
PatsyT : When the cats away the mice will play …
AdLib : Odd…I will fix it now! Be right back!
PatsyT : AdLib the links did not work so got here by going to live events
Chernynkaya : Yep I HATE her.
Khirad : Does hate in America include Liz Cheney of Al-Chaida and her Jihad against our legal system?
Chernynkaya : Hey, Patsy!
PatsyT : Hi Guys
Chernynkaya : Where is everyone? They’re tardy.
Khirad : Oh, good, some light fare.
Chernynkaya : Stop reading that smut!
AdLib : I read something about it somewhere.
AdLib : Welcome Cher!
Chernynkaya : Nooooo Not Hate in America!!
Chernynkaya : Hi all. Had a drink at dinner, so I probably can’t type
AdLib : I thought we’d lead off with hatred in America and individuals committing suicide attacks. Then, favorite dessert recipes.
Khirad : Alright, what’s on tap tonight? (discussion wise…)
AdLib : Hey Khirad! How are you doing tonight?
Khirad : Hi!
AdLib : Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!

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Vox Populi Archives

Blogging and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Posted by AdLib On March - 8 - 201056 COMMENTS

As the title alludes to, I believe that the most constructive path in blogging is Zen-like, IMO, it is best and most considerate to accept the opinions and blogging of colleagues as being what they are and never take them personally. And I like to keep my motorcycle running too.

This is not referring to actual personal attacks or troll behavior of course, I’m talking about the healthy experience of blogging which includes disagreements with those who may agree in most instances.

Before I continue, let me make clear that this is not aimed at anyone in particular, there have been situations that have arisen along the journey of The Planet with this one thing in common, I’m addressing this in general. So, no one is going to take personally a post about not taking things personally, right? Good.

I have learned a bit about bloggers and people in my brief time as Admin at The Planet. It is natural on every blog for those who become frequent bloggers to become more familiar and friendly with each other, I have never seen an exception to this. It does bring with it a more personal connection between such members and to the site, which on a social blog is fine but on a political blog, can sometimes be a double-edged sword. I see belonging to a blog very much like a relationship, the more we invest ourselves in a relationship, the more we open up, the more we can share and receive…and the more vulnerable we can become.

This can create a conundrum, true freedom of expression where conflicting views are freely shared and vulnerability can’t constructively coexist. So it can become a balancing act, between coming together with others to share personal thoughts and opinions…and not feeling vulnerable, so that responses that oppose one’s opinions are not taken personally.

For me, it’s all about intent. As long as someone is genuinely expressing their opinion, whether or not it undermines or argues against one’s opinions, accepting that without taking it personally is what freedom of expression is truly about.

On HuffPo, the personalizing has led to a too-often ugly and offensive atmosphere. We’ve all seen the troll-Progressive mud fights, petty and exclusive cliques, inter-Dem battles, all that hostility and discord over there that is stoked by taking others’ opinions as personal affronts.

It suffocates true exploration of ideas and perspectives at a political blog and smothers diversity of opinion if there is a feeling that to express oneself openly and honestly is to step into a minefield. This is why we have the rules here that we do enforce avidly, all members deserve respect and are expected to show it to others. However, we can’t be everywhere at all times and we do depend on the kindness of members to support and reinforce this sensibility whenever possible.

The truth is, at one time or another, each member may have an opinion that some, most or all others at The Planet who respond, disagree with. It is not a great feeling to be in that position, I’ve been there, I’d prefer having most people support my POV every time but as long as they’re honestly expressing themselves, I respect their POV as I want mine respected. So even if people disagree with my POV, there is a satisfaction for me that I am on a site that truly believes in and protects freedom of expression.

The fallout from taking others’ opinions personally is a rapid loss of perspective, it is easy to exhibit the same actions one is objecting to in the midst of that. This sometimes leads to generalizing or categorizing people or even the blog, to make them easier to attack in what one may feel is defending oneself or one’s opinion. So, it is not unusual for the ironic protest to be voiced in the middle of such a situation that the members or site don’t allow for a difference of opinions…in the midst of a conflict based on a difference of opinions.

The reality is of course that in that particular instance, it is a situation where one member is in the minority on an opinion…as I have been and most others have been at one time or another. And when I’m in that situation, I rarely accuse myself of being intolerant towards me, I just accept that most people just don’t realize how enormously wrong they are.

In truth, I have found myself standing firm in some cases and being convinced to take a different position in others. If one views having opposing opinions as a process in trying to validate the truth in a situation, then the process is very constructive and one can come away from it more convinced of their original opinion or more confident of their new opinion. So, either way, if the quest is not in being “right” or personally validated but in trying to affirm “truth”, then one can only benefit from disagreements.

It is not an easy thing for strong minded people to always get along. Personalizing and becoming emotionally reactive to disagreement is something that is continuing to tear our party, our democracy, our government and our nation apart. To reject that requires self-sacrifice, being committed first to working towards a better level of cooperation and discourse for the many in the long run even when we feel like swinging back at someone in the short term.

UPDATE:

I’ve assumed that this is well known but just to be clear, no personal criticisms or attacks are permitted under the Terms of Use. All members are required to respect each others’ right to their opinion and personalizing disagreements is not permitted.

In the article above, I am instead addressing tolerance for others’ voicing opposing opinions on issues, not taking legit criticisms of one’s opinion personally.

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Featured, Observations, PlanetPOV, Relationships, Society

Vox Populi AfterChat – 3-5-2010

Posted by AdLib On March - 5 - 2010173 COMMENTS

The chat continues here…

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Vox Populi

Vox Populi – 2-26-2010

Posted by AdLib On March - 5 - 2010ADD COMMENTS

Chernynkaya : See you on the thread.
AdLib : Cheers Patsy!
PatsyT : Another Great Vox Populi Thanks all !!
AdLib : Looks like we’ve reached the end of tonight’s edition of Vox Populi. Thank you all for being a part of it, a lot of fun and some interesting ideas. The chat can continue at the AfterChat article, click this link to go there: «link»
Blues Tiger : I think it got overshadowed quickly by Utahs abortion crap
PatsyT : Give Bloom energy a goggle lots of info there
PatsyT : OK well then I will have to go back in history and push those buttons
AdLib : Duh!
AdLib : OH!!! I saw that, I was thinking it was some investment group or think tank like the ones we were discussing!
Blues Tiger : Dang AdLib I posted a link and announced It’s Bloom Box Day the other day
AdLib : Patsy – It was 1 or 2 weeks ago, you were “on”.
AdLib : Bloom box?
Blues Tiger : I am trying to keep up on the Bloom Box Patsy…
Chernynkaya : Nothing Patsy. Just the idea of comedy wins. Unions. Health care ins. the whole thing. Oh, too hard in this format!
PatsyT : Bloom box that is one to follow …
PatsyT : What did I say that was so funny ??
PatsyT : I have ideas when do you guys want to take it to the next step?
Chernynkaya : Right– forgot about independently wealthy nellie.
Blues Tiger : What is the name of the Guy who first funded Google ,E-Bay and the Bloom Box? He might be someone who would invest…
PatsyT : Nellie where for art thou ?
AdLib : Hey, maybe Nellie can finance this, I hear her website is worth $125 million!
Chernynkaya : Thanks Pats I always go for comedy!! Can’;t you tell?
PatsyT : You know you can make a down and dirty vid and get all the street cred if it is hitting home you do not need a big backing at least to start with
Chernynkaya : Yes–mmentioned him below– and david geffin– into medicine. Do a search Chronicle of Philanthropy to start.
AdLib : Patsy! You make me laugh and I’m a tough audience!
AdLib : Maybe someone like Soros would be a good candidate?
PatsyT : Sorry for the tease Cher I can not make comedy win BUT a Well placed presence that is funny will travel
Chernynkaya : AdLib– YES. Davos and all those think tank places. Aspen Institute etc.
AdLib : Patsy – Laughter is the best medicine…and sometimes the only kind cover by your health plan.
AdLib : Cher – Just saw a thing on 60 Minutes a week or so ago about Davos, they invited people who have great ideas for businesses. Maybe next year, Davos?
Chernynkaya : PAtsy– please elaborate. I want comedy to win, I think. do I?
PatsyT : Comedy wins then !
AdLib : Cher – Exactly! Like charter schools, private non-profit companies doing what Medicare or SS might do and being subsidized as Medicare Advantage was designed. Just add in their ability to take on everyone.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– seriously dude. You should write to some leftie philanthropist– david geffin or soros and present that idea. or Trumpke– and C’lady!
AdLib : Patsy – It would be so funny! And Dems couldn’t turn down subsidizing the unions, they’d be scared not to!
PatsyT : AdLib a few well placed Ideas can go a long way
Chernynkaya : Yes– govt subsidies. but your idea is really very big. I mean it. like private schools in a way. And what else? You can make abortions available if you don’t take govt funds. A small point, but still…
AdLib : Cher – Can’t help it, my approach is that if you hit an obstacle, accept it and find another way to your goal. If Dems are terrified of voting for a Public Option, do an end run and simply provide subsidies for “private businsess” which Repubs claim to support.
Blues Tiger : I wonder if Co-Op healt care is feasible
PatsyT : Ohh lets freak them out – - run by UNIONS !!
Chernynkaya : Oh–you are righT Adlib, i know. Just sayin’.
Blues Tiger : My better have is planning on buying the pink and black Sig 22 next couple of weeks
AdLib : Cher – SO, why not have private non-profits start up…that then get subsidies from the government and become de facto Public Options paid for by the government, without being technically government run?
Chernynkaya : ADLIB — that’s what made me write ass– I knew it!!
PatsyT : Tiger I was quoting the Gary Oldman line for Batman “I gotta get me one of those”
AdLib : Patsy – We look to government to do things but it’s thinking outside of the box to consider what resources exist to accomplish the same goal.
Chernynkaya : But it may come to that.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– altho the idea is good, it bothers me because I think the govt should do it. It also give the reptilians the right to say, See the free fucking market works!
PatsyT : Adlib Yes why not I could go for that
AdLib : So close, Cher! I was thinking of a Tostadass.
PatsyT : Yes Tiger . . very interesting
Blues Tiger : oops Pink Gun…
AdLib : SO, what about this idea of unions, perhaps backed by their credit unions, creating non-profit health insurance companies?
Chernynkaya : Adlib asked me what he was thinking of, and it was tostadas. Or a piece of ass as all men think every 20 secs.
Blues Tiger : Hey Patsy!!! Did you see your Pink Gum Links?
PatsyT : Tostadas ?
PatsyT : Night bito and Kes
AdLib : Night Kes!
Chernynkaya : Take care, Kes!
kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! And I’m afraid I have to take my leave now, too. Tomorrow it’s back to the salt mines. Sigh… Good night, all!
AdLib : Night bito!
AdLib : BT – Yes, Blue Cross was a non-profit and gave incredible care and benefits for low premiums. It certainly could happen again with a new entity.
Chernynkaya : Night Bito, BB!
Chernynkaya : Tostadas.
bitohistory : OK, now this time, looking at the clock, I must say good night, Best to you, my friends. Now it will take me 10 minutes to close down this machine. lol Who opened all these sites?
AdLib : Cher! WHat am I thinking of right now?
PatsyT : Hey Tiger !
Blues Tiger : Hellooooooo AdLib and everyone…
kesmarn : Well…how dumb am I! I never knew that!
Chernynkaya : It’s insurance for insurance cos. Kes. In case they run out of $$ to pay premiums. They have those for property ins and Life ins, but I am only assuming it’s for health ins. too.
PatsyT : Bito with three girlswe Have to keep up insurance so believe me there are many a thing I go without to make sure we have insurance
AdLib : Welcome Tiger!
kesmarn : Hey, Blues! I understand Blue Cross was originally non-profit.
AdLib : kes – No, what insurance companies do is co-insure, that is, they take out insurance against having to pay out too much. It is far less, co-insuring, than directly paying for health insurance.
kesmarn : Cher, I feel silly asking, but what is “re-insurance” ? (I should probably know this, but don’t!)
Blues Tiger : Wasn’t Blues Cross a Non profit initially along the lines your talking about?
PatsyT : Hey we have been through the trenches with many a insurance co back in Illinois and here in CA Ohhh the REAL stories I can tell
Chernynkaya : Kes, even insurance co’s have re-insurance for someone like that patient.
AdLib : Patsy – That’s part of the vicious circle that’s been created. All the corporations draining us of so much, we need to borrow. Then we’re hooked on credit, then more money has to go to pay interest and we have less and less, being virtual serfs who work just to pay our masters. That’s what I liked about the movie The Matrix. Corporations just see us as human batteries to drain then discard when we’re not providing them with what they need.
Chernynkaya : Adlib, just as your comment appeared I was thinking that– there could be credit union-type insurers or affiliation groups like the AFL/CIO — they could each start an insurance co.
kesmarn : It’s a great idea, AdLib, but I had a patient recently who had $800,000 plus bills in ONE year. A few members like that and you have major financial probs with a small group.
bitohistory : Patsy,Ah , Disposable income! even h. Ford realized that(after a few bloody strikes)
AdLib : Cher – A big pool of investment money would be required at startup but not as much as Midas if they started small and local, like credit unions. Down the line, they could network and cover more nationally.
kesmarn : Patsy, and the sad thing is, if you made a claim on your insurance they would try hard to deny it, and then raise your rates!
PatsyT : Adlib we can pay our insurance premiums but it takes away from so many other things we should be putting our $$$ toward ! and we could be helping the economy with other spending
Chernynkaya : Adlib, i suppose it could if someone rich as Midas started one. But it would probably be like that Tucker car– the big insurers would do anything to destroy it,
bitohistory : k’es rhetoric not solutions. Politics over policy.
AdLib : Cher – Ignorance is indeed bliss. Ask any lemming before it blindly follows others off a cliff and hurtles to its untimely death. Except for that, they were really blissful.
kesmarn : b’ito. Exactly. Been around as long as “divide and conquer.” No?
bitohistory : k’es, those with power have always tried to develop differences. if it was to their advantage. Ya think?
kesmarn : Yes, Cher, I was debating with a RWer the other day, using facts, and he finally said: “Nothing you could ever say will change my mind. Ever.”
AdLib : Okay, here’s a question. Since all that health insurance companies do is act as a middleman, taking money from people and paying it to doctors, why couldn’t a grass roots, non-profit company be created as a Public Option to do the same?
Chernynkaya : We really live in 2 americas with 2 different realities, and there will be no meeting of the minds. The vast center is by definition low-info voters–always undecided. The are the only ones who are happy. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.
kesmarn : b’ito, what was the thing that disappointed them the most?
AdLib : Patsy – That’s why I want this passed, to help your family, KQuark and millions of fellow human beings who have been pushed into an inescapable corner by the greed of insurance corporations.
bitohistory : listening to cspann (good source?)yesterda y, there were a lot or R’s dissapointed in their party.
Chernynkaya : So both Kes and Adlib depressed me but it’s what I feared. In a way tho, it’s better that they know it’s a lie than to believe it.
kesmarn : b’ito, I wonder if the corps encourage racial tensions, though, because it takes our attention away from their nefarious doings.
AdLib : Kes – The MSM is owned by profit driven corporations. Their only goal and their legal obligation is to make as much money as possible. They can be sued by shareholders and lose for doing what’s best for the nation instead of what’s best for their shareholders.
kesmarn : Cher, on the question of voter awareness: here’s where the Christian right comes in. They’ll vote for literally anyone who has the right buzz words on abortion and gay marriage.
AdLib : Cher – A very good question. I have a couple of thoughts, first, there are those for whom their party affiliation is like religion, they would no more question their beliefs in one or the other. They were born a Republican, they will die one…soon unfortunately, because of a lack of health care coverage. I think they know full well that Repubs are lying but it’s all about winning so they turn a blind eye or even applaud it if it makes them “win”.
Chernynkaya : AdlIb– Impeachable offense!Puhleeze . A BJ is impeachable, but not lying about Saddam and hundreds of thousands dead! Hinestly, we should require any political statement be made under oath.
PatsyT : If they can pass some of this now it affects my family right now -I hope- we pay more then our mortgage for our health care insurance and we make no claims on it WTF!!
bitohistory : I don’t think corps worry about race, they think about$$$. pure greed.
kesmarn : As for the motivation of the MSM, I waffle back and forth…racism? greed? racism? greed? Both…?
Chernynkaya : My serious question: Do the vast majority of voters realize what hypocritical liars the GOP are?
AdLib : And does that not border on an impeachable offense, to willingly be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans for their own greedy purposes?
AdLib : We all know, as does the BSMSM, that the GOP is not honest about wanting any change, certainly not while Obama is president.
kesmarn : Cher, yes, and the Repub version of “slowing down” is to scrap all the work that has been done so far and start over. How many times will they suggest doing that?
bitohistory : You got that right, k’es. Givers and takers.
PatsyT : benefit of the doubt
PatsyT : LBJ I wish . . . Obama has to navigate this territory and this time I have to give Obama the
AdLib : bito – It doesn’t affect me directly either, unless all premiums can be reduced in the long run so I’m with you, I want it to pass because of how it will help others, including friends of mine.
Chernynkaya : That reminds me about the summit– how the DEms were insisting we couldn’t do this incrementally– as if this wasn’t incremental! Geez!
kesmarn : b’ito, I guess we’re the people who plant acorns so future generations can sit in the shade of oaks, huh?
AdLib : Patsy – Imagine what it took for the Dems and LBJ to pass The Civil RIghts Bill. LBJ knew it would cost him re-election and the Dems would lose the South. But he made that sacrifice and today Barack Obama is our president. If LBJ had only taken baby steps to protect his and Dems re-election, I’d hate to imagine where we’d be today.
bitohistory : Adlib I don’t care when it goes in effect. it has no affect on me. I want it to pass for other and the future.
Chernynkaya : Kes– it was a leftover form a conversation an couple days agao, but I think you got it anyway.
PatsyT : AdLib – I would prefer the bold approach though
kesmarn : Thanks, Patsy! That helps, after a blztldlksd day yesterday!
PatsyT : Adlib In a perfect world but that is not what they have
kesmarn : Cher! You are a funny lady!
AdLib : Cher – We’re on the same wavelength again! Agree about the public getting frustrated that HCR doesn’t immediately or in years make things substantially better.
kesmarn : b’ito!
Chernynkaya : Bito–you mean ya had to take a Rumsfeld?
PatsyT : Kes blither away we love you
kesmarn : Patsy, I’ll try to hang in a bit longer, but when I really start blithering, let me know….
AdLib : Patsy – I think that’s a path they’ve chosen, which is self-serving. They don’t want to take a risk that making things right today may mean they don’t get re-elected…eve n though they would be doing something profound for Americans today and forever.
Chernynkaya : The 2014 date seems insane and not beneficial for elections but many good features will take place sooner.
bitohistory : No,not tired or laughing (?) I had to go potty.
PatsyT : Night Kes
kesmarn : Cher, as Mom used to say: “Some people only learn the hard way.”
AdLib : Keep in mind though, even if HCR passes, as I’m more optimistic it will, much of it won’t begin until 2014. Will the public be upset in 2012 when rate hikes and other nasty practices continue despite HCR having passed?
Chernynkaya : This nation is too ignorant, so we pass w/o the PO and the mandates and prices makes us crazy and then we demand a PO after a few years of suffering and that’s how we legislate in the US of A.
PatsyT : Adlib sounds like they ultimately want to exaust all the options to get there
kesmarn : b’ito, see you later. I may have to bow out a little early, too. Am running on extremely short sleep. (Probably shows, too!)
AdLib : Tired of laughing?
Chernynkaya : Bito are you laughing or tired?
AdLib : Patsy – Exchanges have never proven historically to lower costs. I know that’s how Obama and Dems present it but it’s not proven through experience. There will eventually need to be a non-profit health care option because even with all that’s proposed, a for-profit system is unsustainable.
PatsyT : Kes don’t hold back
bitohistory : Please, continue :lol , i need to take a break.
PatsyT : Too bad Corporations you may just have to go out and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps !
AdLib : Cher – Thanks from the bottom of Cheney’s Hearty of No.
Chernynkaya : Oh, Bito– I know and Im cool with that.
kesmarn : In my work I’m seeing more and more patients who are desperate, sick, broke and fed-up. Not too many who are supportive of Repub delays. But then, I see a select demographic.
AdLib : bito – I don’t think it is worth losing all the benefits this bill will bring without the PO, I want to see it pass. My big problem with the bill was that the individual mandate, with no price controls, would allow Blue Cross to raise its premiums 70% and if that meant you can’t afford your mortgage and you didn’t pay, you are a criminal and will be fined thousands. Now, with Obama’s Fed price controls, it’s a bit better. However, the anti-abortion section, which would virtually outlaw abortion, must be removed.
PatsyT : I think that is what Rockefeller is going for there
PatsyT : How about the exchange part of this having a non for profit – - – like a PO
Chernynkaya : I just read Adlib’s Hearty of No!! OMG, that’s awful! Love it.
bitohistory : Cher, Patsy, It is the foot in the door for total HCR. That is what the Corps. are really afraid of.
kesmarn : I couldn’t put into words suitable for family viewing what I would like to do to Nelson and Baucus.
AdLib : Kes – Yes, Pelosi and The House are ready to go, she said pointedly that they are merely waiting for The Senate, the ball’s in their court. Pelosi has the Dems lined up, ready to go in the House. It is all up to the Dems in The Senate.
kesmarn : Did we lose j’avaz? Her dial-up might have faded away…
bitohistory : I tend to side with R;feller. The Po is not the end all to be all. There are other parts better and more important.
PatsyT : Born Again
kesmarn : AdLib, I like that!
AdLib : There is an interesting symbolism here, HCR looked dead, having been crucified by the GOP…then it comes back to life at Easter?
Chernynkaya : No PO You know, let’s say Obama is playing 18 dimensional chess. At this point I am willing– and grateful to get ANY HCR. And I was adamant about single payer! So look how cleverly he turned me around?
kesmarn : I’m assuming House will be easier than Senate?
PatsyT : They can bring back PO any time even after they pass this
AdLib : Kes – That’s what Harkin is saying, it will pass in The Senate by Easter.
kesmarn : I think c’lady had hopes of a PO last week…
PatsyT : On HRC I think there is no turning back . . . march on !
bitohistory : He also has his health costs paid by Hallibuton , thanks to the blood of innocents.
nellie : I do
AdLib : And…anyone think that a public option might really get slipped in?
Chernynkaya : It better and why so long (rhetorical)? Yeah, I guess.
kesmarn : Can I go out on a limb and say 50:50? By Easter?
AdLib : So, who here thinks the HCR bill will really pass by Easter?
kesmarn : “Oink,” sez Richard C.
PatsyT : Cher LOLOLOL
PatsyT : The 5 deferments part ought to be on billboards everywhere !
Chernynkaya : KES!
AdLib : Cheney’s heart attacks just prove his heart is as Republican as he is, it’s The Hearty of No.
Chernynkaya : He needs one final deferment.
kesmarn : Yes, Cher. Think of all the money Cheney has cost the taxpayers in health care. He’s a one-man earmark pork project. Literally. No more bacon, Dick!
PatsyT : Cher YES that guy can hardly hold his head up !
bitohistory : 5 heart attacks–5 deferments.
Chernynkaya : Agreed, Adlib.
PatsyT : Kes Way tooo funny !!!
Chernynkaya : Patsy– Matthews i think said that cheney proves how important good health care is!
kesmarn : And to think they were chanting “Run, Dick, run!” at CPAC. “Run to the nearest cardiologist,” more accurately. (Shame on me!)
bitohistory : Remember the corporate tea baggers read Alinsky. They get in the news . they make noise.
PatsyT : Seriously Chenny – - 5 heart attacks ?
AdLib : Cher – I think that some of those 50 Dems are stupid enough to think that not having to vote for HCR could be good for them in their election. The stupidity is, the public is clearly most upset that nothing is getting done by the Senate and not doing something, though it takes away a GOP attack ad, hurts worse. If they don’t pass something, as you say and I agree, there is no argument to re-elect Dems to retain power. Why? SO they can do nothing for another 6 years? I would of course vote Dem but many would simply vote against a worthless incumbent Dem, not thinking about putting in a destructive or Party of No Repub.
Chernynkaya : Bito keep reminding us! YES!!
PatsyT : Bito – that is almost to easy -they are laying all over the place -you have to step over them
kesmarn : Patsy, Lol, yeah, Obama’s second term could be 8 years after his first one and he’d still be in better shape than Cheney!
Chernynkaya : I saw Avatar last night. And despite the corporate media, I thought “well, they let this film be made. It is so anti-corporate and I loved that. I said to hubby, What if Cameron had used his talent to make a PRO-corporate film? (Shudder)
PatsyT : Bito You are so right !
bitohistory : Oh God, here I am doing a saul alinsky, STOP picking on the differences in your party, expose the problems of the opposition!!
kesmarn : Yes, Cher. I think he’d like to win again. But that “centered” part of him accepts whatever might come his way, it seems to me.
Chernynkaya : But Adlib, do you think more than 50 dems are afraid that HCR is bad for their re-election? I find that surprising. But there is no other explanation I guess.
AdLib : Cher – Yes, agreed. The lack of the proper response by the media around us, the acceptance that winning the game is what matters, not how you win, whether you lie, cheat or steal, those are the sociopathic corporate values that have helped de-sensitize the public to feeling outrage at being blatantly lied to. Come on, “death panels”, “kill Granny”, “socialism”, “gov’t takeover of the country”, the MSM KNOWS this is bullshit but they sit back rooting on the conflict and communicating to Americans that all that matters is who wins.
PatsyT : Hey, Obama could take time off and run again !
javaz : It’d be time. b’ito. to show our celebrity nipples!
kesmarn : Yes, b’ito, politicians need to be afraid of people who feel they’ve lost everything. “Freedom=nothin g left to lose.”
Chernynkaya : Kes– Obama has said so himself. he doesn’;t care about how long he is Prez. But you know, deep down, no one likes to be defeated.
PatsyT : Yes Bito !
bitohistory : j’avaz, if one feels hopless, then it i is time to think, Hell nothing left to lose. Time to get naked , raise hell, and protest in the town square. Make sure it gets on the telly!!!
kesmarn : I’ve said it before: what Osama bin Laden was unable to accomplish, Bush was.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– about MSM + lies– yes, I see that psychology. But I also say that we become desensitized when lies are made acceptable. and when there is no justice, it’s every man for himself and the social contract breaks down. That said, I am not for prosecuting. But we need to regain a sense of justice in US.
PatsyT : Could Bush have left a bigger mindfield ?
AdLib : Cher – The Dems CAN pass with 50 votes but so many of them frighten so easily. Scott Brown scared them because they have little vision. This is why, if Reid loses his election and a new Maj Leader takes his place who has balls, the fraidy cat Dems could be frightened into doing the right thing. I think Dick Durbin would be a likely candidate for leader, he would be a vast improvement.
kesmarn : Does anyone ever get the feeling that Obama is not terrribly concerned about being a one-termer?
javaz : Right, but remember, Obama is a politician, too.
Chernynkaya : Patsy tru. And my caps were accidental when I typed Afghanisan. It’s not always about who else there is w/voters. They just stay home.
AdLib : javaz – No, I’m not hopeless. I’m discouraged by the way things really are in this nation but keep in mind that despite the status quo and media opposed to it, we did rise up as a majority and elect Obama. He may not be accomplishing everything we would like but he is doing some important things. We need to take heart in that sometimes and imagine what things would be like under a Pres. McCain (or Pres. Palin!).
kesmarn : Yes, Cher, that’s another reason why b’ito’s concern with net neutrality is so important. When they control bandwidth, we’re SOL.
PatsyT : Obama is getting out of Iraq or at least it appears to look that way – Young people can appreciate that, no ?
javaz : Let me try again -don’t you feel hopeless in that there is nothing we can do?
Chernynkaya : RE the MSM– the only tool we have against them is the net. That’s why I am so jazzed to join with other blogs to fight scotus or whatever. The net is the last bastion of freedom of the press.
kesmarn : You got it, b’ito. The corporations control the message.
kesmarn : j’avaz, I actually feel a little more hopeful this week than I did last. C’lady’s words helped. And Obama seemed to give the green light to reconciliation.
PatsyT : Cher I know the Afghan thing I am not for that myself but what repub will offer anything else Ron Paul ??
bitohistory : AdLib , the MSM is corporate, don’t forget. They know that they can’ report.
javaz : nothing
Chernynkaya : So can someone explain why we can’t pass HCR with 50 votes?
javaz : Don’t you feel hopeless, in that there’s we can do?
AdLib : Cher – My theory is that people don’t seem outraged because the MSM does not express any outrage at deceit and lies. If you are in a group of people and none of them are alarmed at the crazy behavior of a person, you are less likely to be as well. This is established psychological principle, individuals adopt attitudes of those surrounding them.
Chernynkaya : Patsy– AFGHANISTAN is a big turnoff to young voters– more than hcr.
kesmarn : Right, AdLib, MSM fails us again. (I won’t love to dig up all the old Bush speeches about wMD and how “sound” the economy was and play ‘em over and over today.
Chernynkaya : Adlib– we just posted almost the same thought there.
PatsyT : Obama has to go toward his base because they will come out of the woodwork for him bigtime– the middle – not so much -the obama base is what should be growing right now all of the young people new voters every year and many others (older voters) gone
AdLib : Kes – What pisses me off at the MSM, not talking about Rachel and KO, but they report this bullshit from Boner and others without ever putting it in context with what they’ve said before that contradicts them. They are freely promoting lies and deception without comment. That is not journalism.
Chernynkaya : aDLIB– “the GOP will say anything…” And what scares me is, it doesn;t seem to matter that they are exposed as liars! Nobody seems as outraged as they should be! If this continues they can get away with anything. Nobody being prosecuted for Iraq/torture sets a very bad example and standard for betraying the public and the law.
bitohistory : Ins. Companies. $1.24 -a day- million on lobbyists , can’t be wrong! They want their pay off
AdLib : bito – It WILL be 150% within a year or so. They raise rates multiple times in a year, 70% is just one raise. Here is a fact that the Repubs refuse to face…at this rate, the math is very simple, HC will not be affordable for the majority of Americans within the next few years if HCR is not passed. How do these assholes think Americans can survive 70% rate hikes each year forever?
javaz : Oh God, we live in such a red state, and Arizonans love McCain, and worse, love Sheriff Joe. JD is a corrupt former senator … Garcia is the Dem running from Tuscon, but he doesn’t get any air time
kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. And Boehner! First he says the HCR bill is too huge (1990 pages!!), then the Obama plan is too small (fewer pages than a comic book). HUH?
bitohistory : j’avz, no I didn’t see that. But JD has Orly Taintz!
Chernynkaya : Nellie as a meditator, during the campaign, before an important event i actually saw him center himself many times.
AdLib : Kes – The GOP will say anything, that is so obvious and promoted by them now. All the HCR things they supported months ago, they oppose now because they think it helps them politically. Obama is weak if he is thoughtful or patient. And yet he is a dangerous socialist taking over our country. Which is it, loonies?
kesmarn : I almost want to thank the insurance companies for raising their rates. They sure are helping the cause of reform.
bitohistory : Adlib, I feel for the peeps in Cal, but i am glad they did. why not 150%?
Chernynkaya : AdLib, they will pass HCR. It is unthinkable that they don’t . why not? What’s the problem? I am missing something.
nellie : Cher, I think the president has done a lot of soul searching in his lifetime. People like that are usually very zen.
javaz : B’ito, did you notice how the AZ media made McCain as the winner?
kesmarn : Right, Cher. It’s amazing, though, how often righties interpret “peace-maker” with “weakling.” Aggravating.
PatsyT : Bito I think they must have a mind set. My Husband and I have a small business so I can speak on this and say this (current HC) is out of control and reform is a must I would be happy to show them our ##
AdLib : So, will they really pass HCR?
Chernynkaya : Kes– yep. But really, I think that’s his nature. He might have been born that way, and his background as an outsider makes him a people pleaser and a peace maker– in a good way.
bitohistory : I think the senate can handle Mccain more than JD. he i an Idiot.
AdLib : Cher – I would have to be sedated so I wouldn’t yell at that sorry sack of white haired corporately owned men posing as GOP Senators.
kesmarn : Cher, I wonder if Obama practiced by spending huge amounts of time with large groups of pre-schoolers… .?
AdLib : And announced today, maybe not coincidentally after the HC Summit, Blue Cross announced plans to raise premiums in CA by up to 70%.
nellie : Obama is patient — but he gets his licks in.
bitohistory : patsy, i listen (for a few minutes0 to a RW small buis. show. they are against the HCR. WHY?
javaz : Did you not think that the Arizona media declared McCain the winner and pushed his Maverick image?
Chernynkaya : Adlib– that’s what I was thinking too– I could NEVER behave the way he did, unless I was in a clinical setting as a paid psychiatrist.
kesmarn : I hear a lot of Repubs whining that the recovery is slow because “nobody knows what’s going to happen.” Don’t they realize what a huge stabilizer passing HCR will be?
PatsyT : By junk I mean what we have now
nellie : Health care will pass
Chernynkaya : All I know is, if the Dems can’t pass reconciliation– – that’s only 50 votes, then they may deserve to lose big in ‘10 and ‘12.
PatsyT : I wish that they had brought out how important the economic side of this is -How can any small business get started with this junk
bitohistory : I think it was more for the senste and house than the rank and file. they vote the way they vote. I can’t understand them.
nellie : Yep. I think this was really for conservative voters who might be swayed by right wing talking points.
AdLib : Cher – I am physically and intellectually incapable of practicing the restraint and discipline Obama di. He is a remarkable man.
javaz : B’ito, didn’t you think that the Arizona news proclaimed McCain the winner?
AdLib : nellie – Exactly! This was insurance against the attacks that will definitely come from the Right that they didn’t try bipartisanship and used “the nuclear option”…which Repubs used to define proudly as killing the filibuster but now it means just passing legislation.
kesmarn : Patsy, Weiner is terrific. “Top Dog”?
Chernynkaya : Also, I honestly think Obama has the patience of a saint.
PatsyT : AdLib that McCain moment was priceless !
kesmarn : Hey, nellie! I think you’re right. It was a sort of “show and tell” exercise?
nellie : I think this was the president’s way of showing the country why health care is going to pass via reconciliation.
Chernynkaya : I think if passed HCR will be the senate version most closely.
PatsyT : I love Anthony Weiner I wish he was at that summit
AdLib : I loved the part where McCain was whimpering about FL getting a special deal then when Obama said, “Good point,” McCain was gobsmacked and his face stripped gears. That was hilarious!
Chernynkaya : I was not that enthralled with the summit because i think the Reps got a boost merely for not pissing themselves in public. But I do think it signaled the passage of HVR.
kesmarn : Hey, b’ito, good to see you here.
kesmarn : For what it’s worth, I got one of those mass email things from H. Reid. He said: “HCR will pass.”
AdLib : Hey bito!
PatsyT : Hey bito !
bitohistory : Hey, k’es, and all.
AdLib : LET’S BEGIN! THIS WEEK’S HEALTH CARE SUMMIT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH AND VERY AMUSING AT TIMES. WHAT WERE YOUR FAVORITE PARTS? WITH THIS HURDLE OVER, PRES. OBAMA AND THE DEMS HAVE SHOWN THE REPUBS TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK WITH AND SEEM CONFIDENT ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING HCR THROUGH RECONCILIATION. DOES THIS MAKE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC THAT HCR WILL PASS? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE?
PatsyT : Troll busters is one of a kind
kesmarn : I saw you slip in the side door there, b’ito!
Chernynkaya : Nellie did most and i think it is unique among all sites!! Thanks tho, patsy.
PatsyT : Hey Cher I have to say it quick that the Troll Busters is awesome yo uand Nellie and anyone else that is on that Thank You I have directed many folks there !
Chernynkaya : Back attcha, J!
javaz : Hiya Cher!!! One of my favorite Planeteers!
kesmarn : Hey, Cher!
AdLib : Hey Cher!
kesmarn : Yes…any and all contributions gratefully accepted. Well, beer might be a problem, however…
Chernynkaya : Hi Y’all!
PatsyT : Only Sam Adams sorry
AdLib : Anyone got a bit of Kahlua for Kes’ cup of tea?
PatsyT : Kes, me too, do not feel guilty -Life is busy for us all.
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! (feeling guilty, but still working on education article here…slowly… )
AdLib : Hi Patsy!
javaz : hi patsy!
AdLib : It’s a secret, javaz! Not really.
PatsyT : Hey Everybody !
kesmarn : Assam tea tonight. And nothing interesting to put in it. Sigh.
javaz : Hi kes!
AdLib : Hope you’ve got a warm mug of cocoa, Kesmarn.
javaz : what is the topic tonight?
kesmarn : Hey, j’avaz and AdLib, from the eternally snowy midwest.
AdLib : Take 2: “Hey javaz!
javaz : Hi
AdLib : Welcome to tonight’s edition of Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!

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