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The American Crash

And I know why it happens. And I won’t participate.

Night e’cat.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:59 pm

I want to say right here that I take exception to the emotional overlay that has been attributed to my arguments. It’s a way to devalue what I’ve said. And it’s a lazy way to debate. Counter my points. Don’t try to cast them as somehow less than thoroughly considered and logical — as “knee jerk,” or “politically correct,” or “emotional.”

I’m going to sign off now. My posts speak for themselves.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

And how would that have been predicted?

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:51 pm

You are really reading me wrong on this.

Iconic means “typical” not heroic. It means he is emblematic of a trend. I don’t see that.

And don’t devalue my pov by calling it “emotional.” That’s just insulting.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:40 pm

A person does not become a sociopath. You are one, or you are not one — except in rare cases of severe child abuse where that kind of damage can be done early in life.

You see some social context to this man that I don’t see. That’s the difference.

I think he was someone who bought into the RW propaganda and thought, as an American, he deserved to have it all.

That’s the iconic part. I don’t see that. I think this man was a self absorbed manipulator who posted what he thought sounded high minded — I don’t think he cared a whit about society and its ills. He just cared about himself.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:27 pm

That’s my take, too.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 11:01 pm

AdLib, I think your quest to understand why is lost on those of us who see this man as a sociopath. There is no why for that kind of person.

I don’t see him as iconic in any way of people suffering from social ills. That’s the disconnect here.

He wrote a long letter that happened to include some familiar talking points, posted it on the net as a some grandiose heroic manifesto — I see it as completely self serving with no social relevance at all.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:58 pm

You can’t prevent what you can’t predict.

To me this is an isolated and specific incidence — like the guy at the Z Channel.

Just because Stark rattled off a few talking points that sound familiar is no reason to make him iconic. He’s not. He’s like the Columbine kids in e’cat’s post.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:51 pm

Gotcha. 🙂

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:23 pm

Wow — what an astute observation, K. That one went right by me, but you’re absolutely right. He was hoarding money — just to be the very thing he railed against.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:22 pm

Brava, choicelady. A stunning post. Your last paragraph is perfect.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:15 pm

You are no shlub, dear friend. Far from it. And you’re just going to have to accept the truth gracefully.

Sleep well.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 10:11 pm

And I respect that. I just think THIS guy is the wrong guy to use as a symbol for all the people feeling that way.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:59 pm

I concur — I think our opinions have been thoughtfully presented.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:55 pm

And I know what you’re saying. I do understand. I just disagree.

And yes, I know our tax system is ass backwards. But that’s beside the point. And, to tell the truth, so are his finances.

I just think this is not the individual to hold up as an example of the hardships being borne by Americans right now.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:34 pm

I’m sorry to hear that, Kalima. In my case, it was my dad.

It’s very complicated and very sad. And like your uncle, he would never have harmed anyone else.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:32 pm

Well, if that’s the case, then we’re not talking about social ills — we’re talking about an individual who handles life in a very inappropriate way. Which is exactly what I and other have been saying.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:29 pm

b’ito, you are a gem and a credit to mankind.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:24 pm

I agree. And Hollywood was all, “Poor Walter.” And here, his wife is dead.

It’s tragic. But it’s selfish, too. It makes me very angry — perhaps because there is suicide in my family. I can’t imagine killing someone else along with yourself.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:18 pm

And Stark’s IRS problems resulted from his failure to pay his taxes. Sounds like the same self-inflicted wounds to me.

This guy was well off. Not some poor schmuck victim.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:12 pm

TRP, I know mental illness. I’ve had a lot of experience with it.

Undoubtedly this has some mental health issues involved — my opinion is something like KQuark’s in that it seems like obsessive narcissism to me — but mental illness is not necessarily violent, and not necessarily murderous.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

No. She didn’t. And I’m sure Stark’s wife didn’t want to die, either.

Z’s owner was an obsessed guy on a mission — just like this guy.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 9:04 pm

😆 You are funny, e. He’s not MY type either — but he’s attractive in the scheme of things.

No sirree — I’m a Keanu Reeves girl!

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

You know what this reminds me of == that guy who owned the Z Channel, which went belly up. And when it did, he shot his wife and then himself.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:54 pm

To tell the truth, K, I don’t even know what we’re supposed to learn from something like this. It’s happened before. It will happen again. That’s all I can learn.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:53 pm

Why he set his house on fire with his wife and daughter inside? There is no “why” for that. And that’s the same impulse that flew that plane into the IRS building.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:50 pm

He really does seem to be an empty suit — but he’s a charming one. And an attractive guy. He’ll get far with those superficial qualifications. And I don’t think he’s a stupid man — so he won’t be making the same mistakes that Palin has been making.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:44 pm

I couldn’t agree more. Especially when it comes to groups that hold themselves up as righteous — only to murder thousands of people.

Excellent points, well said.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:36 pm

Thanks, Kes. I appreciate that. I know that people suffer and sometimes act out because of it. But this doesn’t feel that way to me.

And just one last thought — we don’t need an event like this to know what’s wrong. To know that people are having a tough time right now.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:28 pm

I’m very skeptical of this man’s “pressure.” If he can afford a private plane, a grand piano, if he makes enough money to owe $50,000 in back taxes.

And even if he were under pressure, there are so many people under so much more pressure than this — who don’t take it out on others in a violent way. So much more has been endured by so many more people.

I call it random because it’s unpredictable. It comes out of nowhere from people who seem to be just like the rest of us. But they’re not. He tried to murder his own family.

» Posted By nellie On February 18, 2010 @ 8:09 pm