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Satire and Deception

This is an absolutely great piece, Dajuan!!

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 7, 2019 @ 2:17 pm

The Cynical Charade of “Pro-Life” Politicians

“If I have the view that many of these pro-lifers aren’t innocent because of the hatred and hypocrisy they exhibit, should I see their lives as disqualified from protecting?”

Let me cut to the chase and date myself at the same time, That’s heavy! It points out the emptiness behind the fine sounding slogan, “pro life,” when not applied consistently. And it illustrates the dangers that can creep in when life is defined so narrowly.

I have no problem with someone being against abortion. I have a problem when they try to impose those beliefs on everybody else. I think that is a different America than what the FFs had in mind.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 7, 2019 @ 2:05 pm

Hi Nelson. So, our first fight in the new place…

I do not understand this statement:

“There is no hypocrisy in wanting to defend innocent life, and killing the worst of the worst murderers who are clearly not innocent.”

So the issue is not that all life is precious, but that it’s an innocent life? That is radically different from what I understood the pro-life position to be. It’s actually a pretty weak position, because those judgments sound very subjective, if not arbitrary.

Are you sure that is what you mean to say? Or did you just get caught up in trying to defend your position against the accusations that, to use the current meme, that you are more accurately characterized as pro-fetus than pro-life? Please clarify.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 3, 2019 @ 9:46 pm

Mueller, Played by the Rules

Hello Ad, thanks for the warm welcome!

The nightmare scenario would be for the House to impeach Trump, the Senate decline to vote him out, and the country buys the argument that the Dems are just “out to get” Trump. And unfortunately, that nightmare scenario seems very likely. In that case, impeachment would serve as yet another example of tribalism winning out over truth and long-held values.

The best scenario, and one that would give me so much hope for the future, is that hearings would do what the written word could not do: Explain and show the truth to the American people. And once they have actually heard the truth, they will respond the way the America I once knew would respond.

It’s hard to know how much of what Trump has been allowed to get away with is because of the true hardening of the hearts and souls and minds of a substantial segment of the population, and how much of it is because of divergent world views shaped by a fractured and imperfect media. I tend to think that the rule of law compels the Dems to move forward, but politics warn that if they do so, it better be with skill. They need to have a clear understanding of how to get their message across through what would surely be a blizzard of GOP distractions.

So, how do you effectively present the truth in this current environment? And if you succeed, will that truth have the power to move the American people? I’m not sure of the answer any more.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 3, 2019 @ 10:43 pm

I think if they can get Mueller to testify in public hearings it might at least serve to educate the public on the contents of his report since most people obviously have not read and will not read it.

I’m still of 2 minds about actual impeachment hearings. “Rule of law” demands it. But rule of politics warns that there are grave risks. If they proceed, Dems would have to do so very skillfully. Not sure if they can do that.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 2, 2019 @ 5:06 pm

Nice to meet you too! Very much looking forward to future conversations!

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 2, 2019 @ 5:00 pm

Very much in sync with your obvious caution about the MSM. Their conflicting motivations, especially the attraction to the sensational, tends to narrow the scope of their reporting and analysis. At the same time “the truth” is a very broad universe composed of many “facts.”

I have recently engaged in a debate about the Mueller report and the dangers Trump poses to the country at another forum with a Trump supporter with whom I have frequently debated in the past. I have come to respect his integrity if not agree with his opinions. In my conversation with him, it occurred to me that he sincerely believed what he was saying but came from a perception shaped by the media source he has chosen to consume. My perceptions have been similarly shaped.

How does one navigate this media environment to determine what is really going on? How do we know what facts are really relevant? How do we piece together all of the many streams of info to get a true picture? I’m not talking about weeding out lies, but assembling all of the many fragments of truth into something coherent and real and actionable.

Based on the awareness you are displaying in this post, would love to hear your thoughts about that. It’s a question that has taken a prominent position in my considerations lately.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 2, 2019 @ 8:29 am

A Hardy Hidey-Ho to All Yabberzis and Welcome to the Planet

Oh no…..LOL!! Welcome Nelson.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 2, 2019 @ 8:32 am

Murph, Yabberz members have displayed a passionate hunger to continue our years-long conversation together, no more so than during these last couple of months since the Announcement. I have high hopes that the Planet will be able to satisfy that hunger.

» Posted By Mike Pope On May 27, 2019 @ 8:53 pm

Seven Reasons Why Democrats Should Impeach Donald Trump

I agree with your bottom line, that the Dems should go for impeachment, although my reasons are more “rule of law” philosophical (a luxury of not being in a position to make decisions or bear consequences as is Pelosi) and is very mindful of the risks (after the trauma of 2016).

In 2016, we saw Trump survive one campaign-destroying “gaff” after another. We paid little attention to the fact that although his ratings would drop after each of those, they would recover with a week or 2. Looking back, that was our clue that the political landscape was no longer what we had grown accustomed to. Not everybody interpreted those event as we did, and not everybody prioritized the character that those gaffs exposed as we did.

Despite other relevant factors, e.g., Hillary and her campaign, and Russian manipulation, I do not think his election was so much an aberration as a declaration that we have entered a different stage in our history, one characterized by tribalism, a clash of cultures, experiences, and perceptions. We no longer work from a shared set of facts or respond to facts in the same way when we do agree upon them.

I think you and I come from a time where the Truth was something objective and led to inevitable outcomes. The mindset was to find the truth and expose it. That was enough. From that point on, the results were inexorable.

I am not even talking about the “fog of war” that will be the actual experience of any Trump impeachment hearings. We imagine that it will be like the Watergate hearings, which is our vision of what impeachment hearings of Trump would look and feel like. It began in a partisan environment, but one in which the rule of law, truth and facts, and a common regard for our institutions were still intact, and so those principles are what allowed that process to yield the result that it did.

But this is a different world. We know that Trump and the GOP will manipulate those images to their advantage, and our bifurcated media (is “multifurcated” a word?) will present completely different versions and interpretations of what we are seeing, and those will be consumed by the various tribes hungry for confirmation and validation.

It will not be an easy task for the Dems to break thru. They will have to demonstrate that they are motivated purely by the desire to preserve the rule of law, even as it is pretty obvious that they are also motivated by a desire to remove him from office because they do not approve of him or his policies. The 2 motivations are not mutually exclusive, but they can produce behaviors and actions that are identical and therefore hard to distinguish in the minds of the public. This makes those behaviors and actions easily “spinnable.” That is why I always caution that if the Dems proceed with hearings, they must be skillful.

But apart from those considerations, because of my specific interests when analyzing these events and processes, I wonder if the facts will actually matter, if they will be enough. Over and over again, I have run into the attitude that Trump might be a bad person but we support him anyway. It seems that there are many who are determined to separate his character and perhaps even criminality out from their evaluation from what he has accomplished.

They are looking at a different narrative from us. Where we see chaos and destruction, they see change and the inevitable reaction of the Establishment against that change. To them, Trump is an instrument for “good,” although I have yet to hear a clear or realistic explanation of what that good will look like. But my understanding is irrelevant. That is part of the landscape we are in. I wish there were polls that delved into those attitudes more deeply. Bottom line is that that narrative provides a framework imposes a different set of priorities and interpretations to events.

So will hearings prove to be harmful or helpful to our cause? I do not know. I do not think anyone really knows. It’s a risk, a calculation. There are facts and figures to look at, but if the assumptions are wrong, the interpretations will likewise suffer. From the comfort of my own irrelevance, I still maintain that impeachment is the right thing to do, yet I understand Pelosi’s caution. But as time goes on, that caution is in danger of becoming fatal mistake.

I look to 2020 to give us a real reading of where this country is at, how far we have moved from whom we used to assume we were, and what the prospects are that we escape from this national trauma relatively unscathed.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 7, 2019 @ 9:22 am

There are many polls, numbers and facts. It’s not always easy to know which are the most relevant and what they actually indicate.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 6, 2019 @ 11:11 am

Numbers can be treacherous. You need to ensure that you are looking at the most relevant info. We would like to think that the fact that people think Trump is dishonest means that they would support impeachment. Perhaps that was true pre-Trump, but I think it is less true now. Cannot tell you how many Trump supporters have told me that they know he is not a good human being, but they like his policies on, blah, blah blah…

Not everybody is judging him as we do. It is not a slam dunk.

In addition, Trump and his allies have been extremely successful in muddying the waters so that many voters just lump it all into the category of they-all-do-it or all-politicians-lie. There are many rationalizations, a fact which is in itself rather fascinating.

I have 2 fears. The first is that because of the media environment, which offers a menu of different realities to a public hungry for confirmation of their own world views. So it is hard to guarantee that any particular message will get through to enough people.

The other, more demoralizing fear is what I expressed in an earlier article in which I quoted Springstein:

“When the truth is spoken and it don’t make no difference
something in your heart goes cold.”

I am afraid of how cold our (the American people collectively) hearts might have grown. My measuring stick is in 2020 what it was in 2016, a landslide against Trump. Not eking out a 2 or 3 percentage point victory, although that would accomplish the primary purpose, But a slim victory would indicate to me that there are major problems in this country of which Trump in only a symptom, and which will continue after he has gone.

I agree with you that impeachment hearings could end up being to Dem advantage, but I’m not going to be overconfident about it. It’s a risk.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 6, 2019 @ 11:10 am

Jake, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority have not read the Mueller’s report. It turns out that long written legal documents are not the most digestible vehicle for for illuminating the facts. So it is possible that the political TV spectacle that would be those hearings could have an effect on the so-called middle.

I agree it’s a risk. Depends on how skillful the Dems are in presenting the case, how much would break thru the partisan media fog, and finally, if that great middle really cares.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 4, 2019 @ 11:38 am

First, the target group are neither the Trumpets nor the Resistance, but the great middle. The danger is that Trump can very easily spin impeachment as a continuation of Dem effort to “get Trump” no matter what. Easily. And impeachment hearings can muddy the waters, especially with RWM spinning what is viewed to support that narrative. So the bet on impeachment is that hearings will break thru that “fog.”

I remember being puzzled in 2016 how Trump could break every norm, deriding John McCain, mocking that disabled reporter, Access Hollywood, all the things that should have destroyed his candidacy, yet he would always bounce back within a couple of news cycles. It left me with the feeling that the public was not what I thought it was, did not think the way I had always assumed. And now I realize that a large part of it was that they are not looking at the same facts and analysis.

The danger of impeachment hearings that do not clearly and successfully make the case is not that those 55% who say they would never vote for Trump (whatever that is worth from this far out) will change their minds, but that they lump the Dems into the “those people in Washington” and do not turn out to vote at all. Because Trump cannot win on his base alone, he must also supprss the vote of the opposition. If the Dems cannot find a way to show that Trump committed obvious and serious crimes, impeachment could indeed backfire.

As you know, I am torn. The case for impeachment hearings are, I think, obvious. We have already ceded so much of the rule of law, in this case, the concept of checks and balances that is at the heart of our form of government, that we need to take a stand somewhere.

But these times are different from those of Nixon, the environment much more tribal, the available contradictory “facts” too confusing and disorienting. And I’m not sure anymore how many people would actually care if Trump did shoot somebody in broad daylight on Main Street.

Holding impeachment hearings would absolutely have some impact on the elections. But so might not holding them. It would certainly take away the argument of a lawless presidency by relegating such rhetoric in the minds of many to the “same-ole-same-ole.”

Mueller paints a picture of Trumps lawlessness, which is just an extension of his character. I think the issue of his character is what distinguishes him from other Presidents and, although the bread and butter issues are certainly determinative, for me, his character is whats disqualifies him from that office. If we cannot shine a giant spotlight on that character and how it has harmed our system of governance and our values, we are going to be left with bread and butter, and I do not think that’s as much a slam dunk as we would like to think.

» Posted By Mike Pope On June 4, 2019 @ 11:31 am