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The Torture Report – An Organization Held to Account…But Not One Single Person

Jeremy Bash, who was Chief of Staff for the Department of Defense and the Central Intelligence Agency, went on the show today of that bastion of propaganda, Andrea Mitchell, and revealed to us all who the real victims of CIA torture are…the CIA agents who people now think badly of.

Poor CIA agents, they’re so depressed that they can’t speak out publicly to explain how noble they actually are for torturing people. And who’s to blame for making other CIA agents feel sad for being asked by friends and family, “Did you torture?”

Why, The Senate and media of course, for letting the public know what CIA agents were actually doing.

Please, won’t you donate to the “CIA Agents Torture Sadness Morale Fund” today? If you don’t, you may be tortured so it’s highly recommended.

» Posted By AdLib On December 11, 2014 @ 10:05 am

Funk, I do agree that the argument of, “Torture, we shouldn’t do it because it doesn’t work well,” is a bit offensive. Er…shouldn’t we not do it simply because it’s immoral and inhumane?

Keep in mind, the purpose of the Senate Dems though. Even in their latests defenses of why America should torture, Repubs, the CIA and military all say one thing, “It saves American lives.”

So, it seems to me that the reason the Senate Dems stressed that was to take away this sole justification that the pro-torture sociopaths use.

The report does seem to express a moral outrage as well but my take on it it is that its purpose was to stop torture from happening again under government officials.

What excuse would work for them now? “Aw, come on, everyone else is doing it!”?

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:41 pm

GC, right with you. Your tax dollars at work…waterboarding and torturing…and $80 million of our tax money going to two sadists to design new torture programs.

It’s just plain disgusting…

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:35 pm

S-Man, they did investigate this though, despite the stonewalling and spying on them by the CIA. So it is an accomplishment for them and the American system. Unfortunately, this is where the road ends, with torture thankfully being stopped since Obama came into office and a condemnation of any who would return to it.

Unfortunately, Repubs could care less about being condemned so it is not unlikely that they could bring it back if they get the WH back.

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:31 pm

If only! From that article:

“As a matter of international law, the US is legally obliged to bring those responsible to justice,” Mr Emmerson said in a statement made from Geneva.

“The US attorney general is under a legal duty to bring criminal charges against those responsible.”

As CL mentioned and I regrettably agree, that duty will never be undertaken because of the potential for tearing this country apart profoundly.

There are no cops to arrest people as powerful as Presidents and CIA Chiefs, they are sadly above the law.

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:28 pm

Cheers Kes, thanks for the kind words!

I like that suggestion about Obama pardoning Bush and Cheney but he would never do it, no doubt rightfully concerned about the precedent it would set for some future Repub President pardoning him for violating the Constitution with Obamacare of course.

McCain did make a very good speech in response to this. Unfortunately, just before and no doubt after, he’ll be back at his race-tainted attacks on Obama for anything bad that happens in the world or in his refrigerator.

And from NY Mag:

The Senate Intelligence Committee’s 500-page executive summary of its report on the CIA’s torture program…adds some details about the important role two psychologists had in both developing the “enhanced interrogation” program and carrying it out.

Within the report, the duo in question are referred to with the pseudonyms “Grayson Swigert” and “Hammond Dunbar.” But both the New York Times and NBC News have identified them as Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, two psychologists who have been previously singled out for their roles in developing and legitimizing the torture program.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/12/meet-the-shrinks-who-helped-the-cia-torture.html

Unfortunately, part of their deal was to be given complete immunity from any prosecution for what they did. Score another one for the CIA!

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:22 pm

CL – I’m not lobbying for the Obama Admin to prosecute Bush, Cheney, the CIA, the military, etc. over their torturing. Just saying that no one will be prosecuted by anyone.

For the record though, these people have violated U.S. Federal law but as you say, they would never be held responsible by our justice system for doing so because it is a simple fact in America that some people are indeed too powerful to have the law apply to them. And I agree, part of that reason is that it could tear our nation apart even more. Still, it does make clear that the proposition that no one is above the law in America is a fairy tale.

As is probably obvious, I am angry about all of this and how everyone’s hands are tied to apply any justice in this case but I do understand the pragmatic reasons why that is the case. I just don’t like it when terrible people get away with heinous acts.

And then their brother gets to run for President(Jeb, that is) afterwards despite all of it.

I do however appreciate that this has been documented and made very public. I hope people will see the Bush Admin and the CIA for the liars and sadistic creatures they are and that there will be much sharper skepticism of any claims by Repub leaders and CIA/Military leaders when it comes to war and their leadership than there was back then.

BTW, the US isn’t signatory to the ICC, is it? So the U.S. doesn’t recognize their authority even if the ICC was to seek the prosecution of our governmental war criminals…which they won’t.

I completely agree that it is up to the public to come together and demand their government act as a majority wants in such cases but with the deterioration of representation and government the Repubs and their backers have caused, there’s only so much outrage to go around and be focused.

Do we pour our outrage behind “Black Lives Matter”, “Latino Lives Matter”, Women’s Lives Matter”, “Poor Lives Matter”, “School Children’s Lives Matter”, “Global Existence Matters”, on and on.

It’s the GOP’s plan to collapse the effectiveness of government and unfortunately, it has been working. Keeping the public in a constant state of outrage and disgust exhausts them after a while.

I sure do hope the “Black Lives Matter” movement keeps a full head of steam and forces more and more change because it is having an effect.

Will people rally behind changes due to the Torture Report? I don’t think so, it’s not personalized enough. So…the outrage over that will die down, no one will go to prison and the perps at the CIA will just continue lying, breaking the law and wrongly harming others because there’s nothing to stop them.

Sometimes, things just suck and having a CIA that is essentially answerable to no one and capable of horrendous things, is one of those sucky things.

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 10:11 pm

PPO – I don’t know that every country in the world uses torture but 25% of countries in the world worked with the US in this process of grabbing prisoners, flying them to black sites and torturing them.

I do believe that it has stopped, at least the program the CIA was using. One could argue the US is torturing the prisoners in Guantanamo at least mentally by holding them there indefinitely.

It is a good thing that the US can show the world that we can tell our people and the world when we have done something that’s so wrong, that does distinguish us from most countries out there.

But if there is no price to be paid by government officials for ordering and executing the torture of people, there is little reason for them to avoid it in the future.

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 3:09 pm

Hey CL, though I think that the cementing in this nation that the law doesn’t apply to the wealthy and powerful is a major cause of the public’s disgust and apathy about politics and our system in general, I do appreciate how devastating it would be to the nation and the future of the Presidency if Bush and Cheney were prosecuted by the US for war crimes and violating The Constitution.

My point about some Dems in Congress having knowledge of the torture was just pointing out that if they went after Bush, Repubs would go after them and they know that.

True, all those who would have been informed would be sworn to secrecy and would be violating federal laws if they came out publicly so leaking is the best way for them to get the word out.

What this demonstrates is that there are no checks or balances to stop the President, the CIA, the military, etc. from abusing their power and breaking all kinds of domestic and international law and no threat of prosecution that can scare them away from doing so, just a resolve after the fact that hopefully convince people from doing it again in the future.

Under Obama, torture has ended as an official policy of the U.S….but whenever a Republican returns to the White House, I don’t see any of this standing in the way of his re-instituting torture if he so desires to do so. One must have concern for what the rest of the public thinks to refrain from taking such an action but as we’ve seen so often, Republicans don’t care what the majority of Americans think or want, whether it’s gun control, immigration, universal health care, etc.

Republicans are all over the airwaves, including Bush and Cheney and ex-CIA directors and officers, crowing about how great torture was and how it protected and helped America. Put these Repubs back in office and they won’t have any hesitation about bringing torture back.

And the CIA, documented now to lie to Congress, The President and each other, that’s not going to stop (especially since they’ve denied it all).

So where does this really leave us? With it documented for history that the U.S. tortured and that many in the country see that as wrong and immoral. With a brief moment where our democracy overcomes the forces trying to smother it and stands up for giving Americans the truth about something awful our government did.

Will it stop the U.S. from torturing in the future? I doubt it, especially considering the refusal by Republicans (aside from McCain) to condemn it.

» Posted By AdLib On December 10, 2014 @ 3:03 pm

Kalima, that’s exactly what the Bush-Cheney cabal is saying, “We didn’t know about any of this but we approved of it and think highly of the criminal activities of the CIA which we had our AG vet ahead of time to assure us that these actions we knew nothing about were legal.”

To us it sounds crazy but trust me, to Republicans it makes perfect sense.

» Posted By AdLib On December 9, 2014 @ 6:45 pm

Beatlex, I think the importance of this getting this report out is that it affirms the principle of an open democracy and it gives the people a frank and factually based view of what is being done in their name.

Their are very few countries in the world that are brave enough to be self-critical, that is something that should generate and renew respect for the U.S.

There are some startling new facts in this report and hopefully at the least accomplish the apparent goal of the report which is to prevent torture by our government in the future. Time will tell but that is a constructive impact of this report.

» Posted By AdLib On December 9, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

Grand Juries Agree: Police Are Authorized to Kill Poor Black Men

Kalima, you nailed it, this does come across like the institutional corruption exposed by the pedophile priests. Our police forces will need restructuring from the ground up to cleanse them of this ruthless violence towards black males. The racists have to go, the blue curtain has to be torn down and prosecution of the sadistic and murderous cops must happen.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 11:10 pm

Kalima, the silver lining to this very dark cloud is that the dam may be broken now and the stories of police abuse may be flowing out freely. The public’s view of the police and the need to get them under control will surely be impacted as more stories keep coming out that confirm how dangerous police have become.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 11:03 pm

VB – I don’t understand, are you saying that there has never been a law passed, a trial or court decision that ever provided justice to any African Americans? My point is, there is widespread injustice and prejudice against African Americans and even though there have been instances of justice being served, it doesn’t change how horrible the injustices are.

As to Anonymous, as I said, I supported a number of their efforts though I wouldn’t support an effort of theirs to deliver some kind of vigilante justice against Wilson or Pantaleo,whether it’s publicizing their addresses, stalking them, whatever.

I think it would be far more constructive and moral for them to put their weight behind the current uprising of people protesting and marching for an end to legalized police murders of unarmed black men. Building this into a national movement that will not be denied will save lives if they succeed in reigning in the police and demanding that all murderers, including those who are cops, are brought to justice.

You know the old saying about an eye for an eye leaving the whole world blind, vengeance is self-destructive and has never led to positive change.

If one is seeking to end vigilantism and violence on one side but advocating its use for one’s own side, then one is de facto not seeking to end it but increase it. And how will vigilantism against police stop police from killing another black man? Isn’t that our goal, to stop the violence, not increase it?

Many people are so fed up, angry and distraught by the reality of murderous racism under the cover of authority running loose in our society. But most of those people aren’t advocating violence or vigilantism, they are in the streets tonight in NY, MO and all across the country are choosing to build a national movement to force change. This is how change has happened in this nation, when enough people rise up and say, “Enough! Things must change!”.

I think that is the one and only constructive path. Though anger and frustration push us to turn down a darker road of vengeance and despair, the only road to a better place is the one of conscience that we march down together without letting anything deter or block us from our destination.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 10:57 pm

Kes – Wow, that is amazingly ironic! Guess he was filling in for Officer Cracker and Officer Kross-Burns.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 8:24 pm

Kalima, it is a problem of poverty…the poverty of conscience and equality in too many police departments and our judicial system.

These police organizations are just doubling down on their racist and anti-citizen mentalities. They are oblivious to how deep a hole they are digging for themselves.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 8:20 pm

Kalima, it’s a start but so much more needs to be done. Let’s keep this ball rolling…right over the racists and racist aspects of our system.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 8:16 pm

James, thanks for sharing this tragic list. I recognize a number of names from it, recall the outrage at the time and how it waned.

Due to that, I have my concerns about the momentum behind reforming police and our legal system slipping away before anything is done but I am encouraged by the commitment of Obama and Holder to get something done.

There should be national shame over this reminder of how our institutionalized racism is so horrible and fatal. There will be many trying to paper over this and keep the status quo rather than admit the wrongs that have been and continue to go on but there is cause for hope that this time, it might be the straws that broke the racists’ back.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:45 pm

Nirek, this does indeed need to stop. Not one of these victims was doing anything terrible when they were confronted by police. In Michael Brown’s case, they were walking down the street. Wilson didn’t like that, started the confrontation and instead of being a “peace” officer, instigated a conflict which ended in his murdering Brown. And Wilson didn’t know that Brown had shoplifted the cigars so that was totally irrelevant…even though the Ferguson PD put out that video to defraud and propagandize the public into thinking it had anything to do with it.

In Garner’s case, he was accused of standing on the sidewalk and selling loose cigarettes (which was never proven). Wow…selling loose cigarettes for $1 would be such a threat to NY’s society and economy and the safety of its citizens, that sure does require several police officers to jump you and choke you to death. Just writing a ticket or summons wouldn’t have been sufficient for this threat.

And poor Tamir, thinking he could be a 12 year old goofing around and playing with a fake gun. Not when you’re black. He was threatening no one, breaking no law and in seconds he was murdered.

This does need to stop and right now.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:40 pm

Sabreen, all that you describe sounds like smart policing versus dumb, brute force, emotional policing. No question that these police forces are over-armed and under-trained.

As you point out, once you’ve shot someone twice, why not back off and wait for back up? What’s to be gained by charging that person and firing many more shots into him? Except murdering him?

And in Garner’s case, do you even need to physically restrain someone who hasn’t done anything violent or violated any serious law? If someone jaywalks, do they need to be manhandled and wrestled to the ground?

As for the tragic story of Tamir, how insane is it to drive right up to an armed suspect??? What kind of idiocy is that and not just approaching in a smart and cautious way to assess the situation? There was no one else out there, no immediate threat to anyone.

Combine stupidity, poor training, and a superior value for cops’ lives over citizens with the power of being a cop and such unavoidable tragedies happen.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:30 pm

Kes, we have seen a very clear campaign by police to use the law to attack those who they feel crossed them in these cases. They are investigating Michael Brown’s stepfather for expressing his disgust at the ruling by saying, “Burn this bitch down!” as inciting a riot. They harassed and attacked and jailed protesters. They demanded punishment of the Rams players who did the “Hands Up, don’t shoot” motion and in NY, they’ve indicted the man who shot the Garner video.

Not all police are like this but some police organizations can be outrageous and vindictive assholes.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:22 pm

PPO – What the SCOTUS said is that the right to lie is covered by the 1st Amendment when it comes to political speech. This came about because states have tried to make laws that held people responsible for lying in the political ads, speeches, etc. So the brilliant SCOTUS decided that politicians and interest groups have the right to lie to the American people in political speech and it’s just too bad for voters if they vote based on lies they’ve been told, it’s their responsibility to find out what is or isn’t a lie.

What assholes.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:17 pm

VB, many of us feel outrage over the racist killings by police and the institutionalized racism in our so-called “justice” system.

But personally, I don’t think that we should allow our outrage to bring us down to the level of those we rightfully despise.

Racist police kill black men because, among other things, they see them and their lives as not being as valuable as white people’s. This devaluization of blacks and overvaluization of whites is insidious.

Though I badly want to see true justice handed out against Daniel Pantaleo, and I am optimistic that Obama, Holder and the DoJ will do so, I would not devalue the life of Pantaleo’s wife to justify a desire to see him dealt with.

It is important to remember that dehumanization and vigilantism have been the tools of the KKK and those who have been and are the most hateful racists in this country. If vigilantism is wrong, it’s wrong no matter who does it or else it’s valid for all who practice it.

I have appreciated a number of stands and actions Anonymous has taken including their support of OWS. I don’t, however, see what would be gained by their providing the location of Pantaleo, especially if it resulted in violence against him and his wife. That would be the antithesis of what those opposing the murders of Garner and Brown are fighting for, namely, the fair and legal treatment of all Americans. If an innocent woman was murdered in the pursuit of avenging the murder of an innocent man, innocent blood would be on everyone’s hands, no one would be left standing on the moral high ground to demand change.

If we are against the killing of innocent people due to personal hatreds, then we are against it in all cases.

It’s a very human and natural feeling, after something terrible has happened, to want to see something bad happen to someone bad but what separates us from the murdering cops is that we believe in justice and a society that must enforce a fair and equal justice to everyone.

We don’t have that now and that’s fucked up. But to have a chance of getting there, we can’t legitimize vigilantism by or against cops. If we don’t do that, we have the moral authority and what appears to be the growing national support to change our justice system and the way our police operate to prevent future vigilante killings by them.

What we can work towards now is seeing justice served if possible in these two cases but what’s even more important is preventing the police from killing more innocent, unarmed black men. The only path that can get us there is not vigilantism but changing the system through the will of the people. And the only way to rally a majority of Americans behind such change, is to be standing on the moral highground.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 2:08 pm

S-Man, that’s true and what should be astounding to Americans is that it starts with racist hatred openly and often displayed towards our nation’s own President. If that doesn’t legitimize open racism towards anyone else who is black, I don’t know what would.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 1:27 pm

Kalima, it’s a disappointing comment on Americans as a society when such blatant racism can coexist with enthusiastic beliefs in American Exceptionalism. The intentional tunnelvision, the rationalizing of the racist treatment of black people is just nauseating.

Despite all this evidence, so many, especially on the RW, claim racism is over (even our SCOTUS Chief Justice) while racism is on display so widely.

I do have some hope that the outrage going on now may provide the momentum to make some progress against some aspects of racism embedded in our society. Obama and Holder are behind making changes, that does give me more hope.

» Posted By AdLib On December 4, 2014 @ 1:22 pm

RSGMusic, what this displays is that there is no price to be paid for breaking the law if you’re a DA or a policeman and no justice if you’re an unarmed black man who’s murdered by police.

This has to change, Obama and Holder are moving to take action, De Blasio says he is but in Ferguson, it just seems to be deeper rooted.

» Posted By AdLib On December 3, 2014 @ 4:47 pm

What Mandate? Obama’s Approval Rises as The Republican Congress Craters

Thanks so much, Kalima!

Love the HypocritesRUs Ball! But I thought Republicans didn’t have balls anymore. 😉

» Posted By AdLib On December 2, 2014 @ 6:42 pm

How about “Lower than Satan’s basement?”

» Posted By AdLib On December 2, 2014 @ 6:39 pm

Lower than a depressed mole?

» Posted By AdLib On December 2, 2014 @ 4:47 pm

Thanks Beatlex!

I think you’re right, the majority of Americans will soon express their frustration about the Repubs being in control of Congress but using that control to pass politically cynical bills that will never get passed instead of working for the people.

The Party of No strategy only worked when they weren’t in power in The Congress. They can try to scam the public by saying, “See? If only we had a Republican President, we’d get all these bills passed!” but the content of all those bills will be toxic and the opposite of what the majority wants. So, the best advertising for electing another Dem to the WH and having Dems back in power in The Senate in 2016 will be the Repubs being in control of Congress for the next two years.

How low can that approval rating go for them?

» Posted By AdLib On December 2, 2014 @ 3:55 pm