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It’s a Mistake For Pres. Obama to Use Fear to Justify a Syria Strike

So true Sue, what matters it is that innocent people are being mass murdered. If 100,000 Syrians have already been murdered by the Assad regime, wasn’t that enough to trigger action?

I am mostly anti-war, except in rare existential cases such as WWII but I do think intervening in genocides is warranted. In this case, I do think some intervention needs to happen but it should be the world that comes in together (without Russia and China of course).

There is one thing to consider, in our post-Iraq era, maybe Obama would have wanted the US to join others in stopping the massacre in Syria but there wasn’t a justifiable way to do so. The use of chemical weapons may have been that opportunity so that’s the “red line” that is crossed and maybe the chemical weapon deaths aren’t really seen by him as somehow worse and deserving of action than the other 100,000 deaths?

At this point though, if I was advising Obama (No, haven’t gotten the call yet), I would tell him not to attack now, just keep publicly stating at periodic times that we are on the verge of an attack, causing havoc and fear in Assad. Meanwhile, huddle in secret with world leaders and Congress to plan out a secret, multipronged plan to undermine Assad’s regime.

Playing chess instead of checkers with Assad and his inhuman allies Russia and China, who are just fine with mass murder.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 2:17 pm

WATCH LIVE: 50th Anniversary of The March On Washington

AlphaBitch, ran out of reply room on your last so replying up here:

Babs Bush has been described as the real mastermind behind the family. Maybe it’s off base, maybe not but she sure has shown how tough, nasty and controlling she can be.

Of course, there is no principle in the Bush clan against stealing because when you’re in the 1%, you’re entitled to what you want so you’re not stealing when you take things that don’t belong to you, just helping reality match what you know is the way things should be.

Daddy Bush’s cronies sure did hijack George Bush’s Presidency for themselves. I mean, when the Daddy Bush guy you bring on to find you a VP comes back after his search and says he’s the best choice to be VP, that says it all.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 10:59 am

That’s messed up, having that procedure unnecessarily. And of course, it sidetracked getting the real issue detected and addressed. Glad you’re okay now.

I guess the MSM doesn’t want to spend the popular capital on going after George even though he’s full of crap about this procedure STILL restricting him from attending after 2-3 weeks.

But Boehner and Cantor look like the cowards they are and their excuses are lame. Rancid Proboscis actually staged a “separate but equal” event commemorating the March on Washington…with such civil rights leaders as Allen West speaking.

This is why I say, the GOP is in a death spiral, they are afraid to offend their racist base by showing any respect to minorities (and civil rights for that matter) so as the amount of minority voters grow and white voters decline, the GOP will decline along with their racist base into permanent minority status…especially after 2020 if Dems successfully retake control of most states they’ve gerrymandered.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 10:44 am

Murph – Bush has the confidence of his ignorance. I think one reason he’s been such a recluse after he left the Presidency is that after everything he did to destroy the nation’s economy, its military and its standing in the world, he just can’t quite figure out how to translate it into what a great President he was. He KNOWS he was a great President but all of these annoying realities just won’t cooperate.

No surprise that Rancid Proboscis, he of the phony “We need to change to appeal to minorities” plea after they got trounced in 2012, now claims that the problem the GOP has attracting minorities is that they haven’t talked enough about how the GOP used to care about them as Americans decades and a century ago.

Yep, I’m sure that all the African Americans who they are preventing from voting today and who are demonized daily by Republicans as lazy, scamming, unAmerican takers will happily vote Republican because of what’s in history books. Genius!

Yep, between LBJ’s passing of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act and Nixon’s Southern Strategy, the parties switched memberships, with the moderate Repubs who supported civil rights going over to the Dems and the racists in the ex-Confederacy states going over to the Repubs. So as we know, there is no connection between Repubs today and those who supported civil rights and emancipation.

In fact, Repubs celebrate the Confederacy and the Confederate flag! Yet they claim they’re the party of Lincoln? They are one party Lincoln wouldn’t even bother RSVPing to.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 10:36 am

BTW, glad your procedure went so smoothly!

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:21 pm

KT – Agree with Murph, Game Change was very well done and could also be classified as a horror film! What could have happened…with McCain as Pres and Palin as VP…scarier than ghost movies!

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:20 pm

I’d bet the MSM ignores it, not much interest from Repubs or Dems in hearing about Bush and he is kind of irrelevant nowadays anyway, as his non-appearance at two RNCs and this 50th Anniversary of The March on Washington prove.

We’ve got so many reasons to see Bush as a lousy President and human being, one more couldn’t make any difference.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:18 pm

I’m sure Bush believes he wrote that letter, I mean, he paid for it so isn’t it his?

Yep, a photo standing anywhere in the general vicinity of Obama is a political death warrant for a Repub.

And how can a party so narrow minded and purist in their prejudices ever win a national election again?

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:15 pm

KT – There is something to be said about handlers and Repub Presidents. It seems pretty clear that Reagan had Alzheimer’s while in his last term as President and his handlers basically ran him and the Presidency.

Bush was an idiot and all of the contrary BS is just that. The situation you describe and so many others (My Pet Goat, “Fool me once…won’t be fooled again!”) illustrate the mentality of a mental midget…which was the perfect candidate for a Cheney & Co. to use. Bush finally discovered at the end of his Presidency that he had been Cheney’s puppet and turned on him.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

Kes – Clearly a phony excuse and that fool can’t write the text in that statement, it’s not in his voice and was without doubt someone else’s work. That’s pretty lame too.

No doubt he is playing in the bathtub with his crayons instead, working on what Mama Bush calls, “Another masterpiece, Georgie!”

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 7:49 pm

Murph – It could be that the Bush Admin threatened to drag them down anyway if they pursued any prosecutions or at least, they feared that so they gave them a free pass on violating the Constitution.

I agree, it’s hard to imagine complete innocence of either party in long term, big programs like the torture and rendition program.

I get the feeling that some of the RWs you deal with over there on the ACA are intentionally trying to spread phony propaganda then once you blow their game they split. I’m sure some of them are dittoheads that just spew the latest propaganda from Fox or Rush but some sure seem to disappear too fast when their lies are exposed.

I think we’ll see a lot of Repub Govs and legislatures becoming Dem by 2020. FL, MI, ME and several more should turn blue and with them, the gerrymandering of Repubs will be undone. It is a gradual path but from what we’re seeing so far of the GOP, the Dems should become stronger with each subsequent election.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 7:44 pm

Foodchain, I think Bush or any other Repub would know that they would never be booed at this celebration of MLK and equality, that would be so ugly and in fact, could only make Bush look good and Dems and blacks look bad.

IMO, this was all about not angering the Baggers who are unquestionably racist and bent on trying to further oppress black people.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 6:33 pm

KT, I think his flyover of New Orleans, after he was being criticized for neglecting the black people suffering, was the perfect analogy for him.

He was raised to believe that only his peers mattered so rushing to give them tax cuts and subsidies was important but helping those lesser people who were alien to him, not so much of an emergency.

I do think the effort on HIV in Africa was great but it clearly was not a from-the-heart thing. Someone contrived that as a legacy thing or something because there is nothing in Bush’s past that would support this being an issue he genuinely cared about.

Still, a good deed done for a bad reason still is a good deed and helped many Africans.

Too bad that Bush didn’t lift a finger to help African Americans and only made their lives worse. But then, it probably didn’t look as good to his political handlers as a legacy thing.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 6:29 pm

Blah blah blah from the President who presided over some of the worst treatment of black Americans in recent memory. His classist economy kept black people down while shoveling money into the pockets of the wealthy and don’t get me started on Katrina. And the Bush legacy is the economic crash that hit black people harder than whites.

What did Bush do as President for black Americans? He was in a powerful position to do a lot and did nothing but watch them struggle for their lives in New Orleans.

I think that any Repub who appeared at this event would have been attacked by the Bagger core of the GOP simply because they are unashamed racists. No Republican can support anything that helps black Americans without being attacked by these jackals, all they can do is blather about how Repubs freed the slaves 130 years ago so vote for them now…that is, if their recent Voter ID laws allow any of them to vote.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

Murph, I still wonder if the reason Pelosi and Reid swore not to go after Bush was influenced by Congressional Dems being in the know about torture going on and they would be guilty as well.

Maybe it was a political calculation that they would look better in 2008 for not making the previous term all about impeaching Bush and giving Repubs more public sympathy.

In any case, this ongoing lack of criminal prosecutions that put wealthy and powerful criminals in jail, whether politicians or bankers, is very bad for the nation and fuels distrust of government.

Indeed, the Heritage/GOP plan, especially the key aspect of the individual mandate, is at the heart of the ACA and comes from them of course. The spectacle of them lying and bullshitting to twist out of supporting their own plan, just because a black Dem President supports it makes them look so racist and petty. Wen the census and gerrymandering changes afte 2020, I expect huge and long term losses for Repubs after burning this image of the GOP in the public’s head.

Yep, I agree, the odds are not good for Dems to take over The House but it is possible, especially if the Baggers force a budget or debt ceiling disaster. I am pretty confident Obama has learned the error of his ways in allowing the Repubs to use blackmail and terrorist threats, to blow up our economy, in order to force him to agree to cruel and hateful cuts to vital programs.

So if he holds fast, The Repubs either cause an economic disaster and likely lose The House in 2014 or they back down and look like petty cowards, also not a good image for them in 2014.

As long as Obama refuses to bargain with them as they hold a gun to the heads of all Americans, I think they go into 2014 looking very bad, if not evil.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 5:05 pm

Murph, even looking back to the Repub’s impeaching and demonizing of Bill Clinton, there is a constant mentality that they do not believe in democracy, that any election of a Democrat as President needs to be undone through their staging a virtual coup.

Only Republicans can legitimately hold power. Remember all the urgings by Repubs to Dems when Bush was President that as much as you may dislike him and his policies, he is all America’s President and you need to respect the office?

Many of those same people are Birthers today.

So what a hatred cocktail, the Repubs racism and their fascist, anti-democratic mindset that anyone but them is illegitimate if elected.

Obama used the short window of time he had with a Dem supermajority to accomplish a number of things but primarily the passage of the ACA. He will be remembered throughout history for that but the many other things he could have accomplished have indeed been derailed by this anarchist Republican House.

Pres. Obama isn’t done though and if the Repubs continue on their racist, anti-American path, if they default on raising the debt ceiling, if they hold more pointless votes on repealing the ACA instead of helping Americans with pressing problems, even with the gerrymandering favoring them, they might lose The House and big things could be accomplished in his last two years.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 1:33 pm

Whoops, thanks for the correction Murph, Angus King is indeed the Senator and as you say, LePage, who this last week claimed Obama hates white people, is the racist bagger who’s Governor.

Looking forward to any comments that come from the coop!

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 12:53 pm

What is disgraceful is how Republicans declined to be a part of this event. GHW Bush claims he is too ill to attend, possibly so but George Bush declined saying he needed to be with his dad. Really? Today he had to be there and couldn’t recognize MLK and black Americans, especially after Katrina?

Maybe that’s the reason. Still, no Republicans attending is an insult to all Americans who believe in justice and equality.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 12:26 pm

Foodchain, great to see you!

Agreed, every American should be watching this right now. It is so valuable to be reminded of the nobility and sense of justice of our people and this history.

With all the Bagger hatred and small mindedness proliferating everywhere, having national unity on our shared humanity is such a moral salve.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 12:23 pm

Hey Sue, very glad to hear that!

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 12:19 pm

Patsy, I was thinking the same thing, all these inspirational speeches going on yet the pudnuts on MSNBC blather their uninspiring punditry over it.

Really MSNBC, you think we want to hear Chris Matthews ranting instead. At least they stopped doing that as Obama’s time to speak approached.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 12:18 pm

Watching the live coverage of the 50th Anniversary of The March on Washington and Martin Luther King’s, “I Have a Dream” speech. Angus King, Gov of ME, just gave a pretty remarkable speech, had no idea he was engaged in the original march and was so eloquent!

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:51 am

Steamed At HuffPost For Getting Rid Of Anonymous Commenting? Chill At PlanetPOV!

agrippa, agreed on multiple points. Getting rid of anonymity is pointless and will only intrude on honest people who give their real social media info.

And it does seem best to have a moderation structure with steps that swiftly lead to blocking IPs after blatant abuse (though being smart enough not to punish those who aren’t truly trolls).

Keep in mind though, there are easily available programs and websites that allow anyone to disguise their IP so trolls will be able to avoid that.

Trolls are like cockroaches, you do what you can to reduce their population but you can never get rid of them completely, you just have to be prepared to stomp them whenever they come out.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 11:06 am

Murph, appreciate the kind words, cheers!

Technically, it wouldn’t need a badge, just very simple programming to automatically allow accounts that have aged past the probationary period (without any bad behavior) to comment without being moderated in any way.

» Posted By AdLib On August 29, 2013 @ 10:50 am

Thanks Murph.

If there was a standard but reasonable probationary period for all accounts to go from being moderated via the auto mod posts and the word blacklist to becoming an account allowing free expression on all posts, it could reduce the trolling while becoming more enjoyable for bloggers.

Just don’t like rules or laws that punish everyone including the good folk to defend against acts of the bad folk.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:47 pm

Thanks Murph. You’re welcome to pass it along as is…it’s a public post for anyone to read.

I wouldn’t expect my recommendations for HP to be given much weight over there but I wrote the above out of principle, that good folk like you who are there shouldn’t have to keep looking over your shoulder for the next tactic that’s rolled out to further restrict members posting comments as a price of trapping trolls.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 8:08 pm

KT, I completely agree with your analogy and I think it’s evidenced here at The Planet. When you’re not spending your time arguing over death panels and Obama’s birth certificate and other RWBS and instead having thoughtful discussions and explorations of important issues…with other thoughtful people, you definitely up your game.

The discussions here enlighten the person writing the original comment as well as those reading and responding, it’s a rising tide of smarts that raise all ships.

On the other hand, this wouldn’t be a place for egocentric or bull headed types who can’t deal with others also having great insights and reason to offer.

Personally, I like getting smarter and learning more about things even if I thought I already knew all about them. And I like “playing up” as opposed to “playing down” because as you say, it only makes you better at whatever you do.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 6:22 pm

Huh? My gin is never waitred down.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 6:10 pm

Murph, FWIW, I think they’ve been going in the wrong direction on this. The more they keep trying to restrict free, anonymous speech there, the more good folk are soured and the greater troll presence they create (as is clear from the current state of affairs.

As we tried to express back in the Bush years, taking drastic measures that infringe on the rights of the innocent is only letting the terrorists win.

The fully moderated posts, the huge blacklist of words (some that are standard In discussing politics, others that are just common words) and now this debacle over killing anonymity, the more HP locks down the site, the more that innocent people feel locked down there too.

It may not seem very intuitive but perhaps going in the opposite direction and investing in a greater number of mods would help HP become a far more satisfying place to blog.

Clearly, all the limitations put on free expression there haven’t made hate speech less frequent. In fact, isn’t it clear that while all of these systems have been put in place, the percentage of extremists have grown exponentially faster?

And forcing new members to link to their social media accounts will only result in innocent people losing their anonymity with HP while the trolls will just set up bogus Facebook and Twitter accounts and evade being identified. So in the end, such a policy only continues to intrude on the good folk.

Personally, I think it would be worth the investment by HP to hire an army of mods and do the moderation thing the right way. The joy among members would be enormous and the resulting increase in visits and clicks could pay for itself.

Assigning various Mods to specific posts in a flexible way makes a lot of sense, so that the busiest front page posts have more mods moved over to them and others keep an eye on the less popular posts.

They may get millions of comments but if they beefed up staff and focused their mod resources on the busiest posts, they would be putting out the major fires and eventually putting out the smaller ones.

They may not like spending more money on staff but IMO, the user’s experience is the most important thing. Do they feel appreciated or mistreated when their comments are auto modded or modded because they used a common word that’s been blacklisted? Do most users agree that it’s better to have their comments held back for a while as long as troll comments never post?

As they said in Godfather 2, “This is the business we’ve chosen.” They are in the business of public blogging, they need to appreciate the responsibilities of that as well as the profits they make from it. And IMO, investing in a fair and sensible system that doesn’t treat innocent people as guilty would be a fair and worthwhile investment.

All of us in the blog world have to accept, there will always be trolls and always be comments that are offensive. The challenge is trying to uphold principles of freedom of expression while trying to prevent bad players from sabotaging it.

It’s not easy and usually, the path that looks the easiest, like declaring all bloggers will no longer be anonymous, is usually a dead end.

My feeling is, you do the best that you can do while going after trolls and hate speech once it’s posted so that you don’t start from a position of guilty until proven innocent.

It’s more time consuming but it is effective and looking at the state of hate speech on HP 24/7 right now, it couldn’t be any worse.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 6:08 pm

There are plenty of informed and thoughtful folk at HP, no question. My issue is the same as yours, the huge population of racists and hateful extremists poisons the water too much for me. They are unavoidable and drinking in that toxicity day after day is not something that I see as healthy.

» Posted By AdLib On August 28, 2013 @ 5:26 pm