Vox Populi – 11-15-2013

funksands : Gracias

KillgoreTrout : You too funk. I think I’ll do the same. Didn’t want to leave you to lock up.

funksands : Keep on keepin’ on

funksands : We’ll figure it out. Well have a good weekend my man. I’m going to find a little corner of it and relax.

KillgoreTrout : She is somewhere in Portland.

funksands : I think that’d be really nice. I’ve always wanted to meet her.

KillgoreTrout : Yeah, maybe you and Sally and I could have nice dinner, or lunch.

funksands : That’s a pretty good start!

KillgoreTrout : Yeah, I met her when they came here for the wedding. Nice looking girl, and quite intelligent.

funksands : Well let me know when you get moved out here. I’d love to meet you. That’s cool that she’s finally find someone to share her life with. Some people never do. Some people never should.

KillgoreTrout : My daughter has a really good partner, and they may be getting married next year. She’s finally found someone who is sincere. She’s had her troubles with relationships in the past.

funksands : Thanks. You’ll just have to take that on faith I guess.

KillgoreTrout : Well, he’s got a good dad.

KillgoreTrout : Actually, she turns 39 tomorrow.

funksands : He’s the most amazing human I’ve ever met.

funksands : Oh that’s right, I remember you bringing that up a while back. Hey you never know. She’s probably in her 30’s?

KillgoreTrout : I’m sorry to hear that funk. I bet he’s a great kid though.

KillgoreTrout : No, never will either. She’s gay. No grand kids for me. Unless she adopts.

funksands : That and other things. Tough being an autistic 14 year old. You’re already crazy when you are 14, and piling on with other issues is doubly hard.

KillgoreTrout : Ah, puberty.

funksands : Does your daughter have kids?

funksands : Portland is a great town. I’m headed down there in a few days to see a good buddy of mine. The boys are an overwhelming handful. The 9 year old is too smart for his own good and the 14 year old has his own challenges obviously.

KillgoreTrout : They must be a handful at times.

KillgoreTrout : She lives in Portland. You know, land of the libs!

funksands : Two boys.

funksands : 9 and 14.

funksands : That’ll be great. Are you going to be pretty close to your daughter? Where in Oregon is she?

KillgoreTrout : How old are your kids?

KillgoreTrout : I saw her about 4 months ago. She attended a wedding here in Columbus and we got to have a brief visit together. I will be moving to the North west maybe next spring, not quite sure though.

funksands : You in the city or out in the rural areas?

KillgoreTrout : It’s really beautiful out there. I spent about a year in Vancouver Wash. Lots of rain though.

funksands : Miserable nasty night here. Like most of them are going to be from here on out. You and your daughter see each other much?

KillgoreTrout : I do, funk.

funksands : Bellevue. 3 miles directly east of downtown Seattle.

funksands : And you have a daughter in Oregon?

KillgoreTrout : You say, left coast? Where about?

KillgoreTrout : Yeah, Columbus. Right in the middle of the state.

funksands : You’re in Ohio right?

KillgoreTrout : No, not really. all my relatives live in different states.

funksands : Got any Thanksgiving plans?

KillgoreTrout : I’m good. Looks like it’s you and me now. Haven’t seen murph this evening.

funksands : Not much my friend. Long week. Just got the kiddos to bed and trying to unwind. You?

KillgoreTrout : Hey funk, what’s up?

funksands : Thanks Glenn. Sweet dreams. All good here on the left coast. We’ll take first watch.

KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams glenn. Have a great weekend.

glenn : Hey Funk–I’m on my way out the door, but just wanted to say “hi”. Hope all is well with you.

funksands : Happy late evening y’all.

KillgoreTrout : I prefer to have the book in hand, but it is available online. Very different from Western thought.

glenn : And…yes, bizarre is a great word for the last repub convention. They built everything, dontcha know?

glenn : I’ll look in the Planet’s archives, too. As for now, I’ve about had it for the night. I enjoyed learning more about one of my fellow Planeteers; it’s always informative. Good night.

KillgoreTrout : Oh boy, that was bizzare. They didn’t even invite Palin. That’s how much of an embarrassment she was to the GOP. I like Eastwood’s movies and thing he’s a fine director, but his politics leave a lot to be desired.

glenn : KT–Thanks for the suggestion. I go to the public library every week, so I’m going to look for it there. However, I do live in GA, so not sure if I’ll find it there. If not, then I’ll look for it online.

KillgoreTrout : I wrote an article about my introduction to it and my interpretations of some of the ideograms. It was about a year ago, but I think it is still in the Planet’s archives. It’s really well worth looking into. The Tao, I mean.

glenn : KT–As to your question about the 2008 convention being “odd”, I found the 2012 convention even more odd, what with Eastwood and his empty chair.

KillgoreTrout : Thank you for your kind words glenn. You can actually google The Tao Te Ching and get the whole thing online. It’s a collection of 81 ideograms or poems.

glenn : KT–Thank you for sharing your story with me. You have had an interesting life, and you have come out as a very strong, wise person. I’m going to try to find a copy of that book to read it. I have to agree with you about the god thing. It never made sense to me, even when I was a kid. Just too many dichotomies involved. I think I try to take a “little of this and a little of that” regarding philosophy/spiri tuality to try to make sense of life. Not that I always make sense myself, but I do try to reflect on my actions, and try to make them make sense.

KillgoreTrout : Exactly glenn. I have often said that myself. The last administration biggies were never invited to appear at the 2008 Republican convention. Isn’t that odd?

KillgoreTrout : Sure glenn. I was in rehab, for alcoholism ( my fifth attempt) and my birthday rolled around while I was ther, and my daughter bought me a copy of The Tao Te Ching. She had no idea what it was about, but she knew I was always interested in Eastern religions. In every person’s recovery, spirituality becomes a very important part of it. I could never get the whole god thing. It just didn’t make sense to me. But when I really started studying the Tao, it made perfect sense to me. It’s a little mysterious at first, but I read it everyday. It begins to sink in, or like osmosis, you one day start to say to yourself, wow, this is pure wisdom. It may have very well saved my life.

glenn : Of course, they don’t talk about those 52 embassies being attacked. Those didn’t happen under the black man, so they don’t count. I love the way in baggerstan, U.S. history, and sometimes the history of the world, only began on Jan. 20, 2009, the day President Obama was first inaguarated (sp?).

glenn : KT–I’ve always wanted to ask you, too. Can you talk about how you got interested in Taoism?

KillgoreTrout : These morons fail to acknowledge that between 2000 and 2007, there were 52 embassies attacked, around the world. They don’t make a peep about those.

KillgoreTrout : If not, I could sure visualize that.

glenn : KT–Yup–that’s my take on it, too. Just something to on which to hammer the president.

KillgoreTrout : glenn it’s just a thing that the right has sunk it’s teeth into, and like a dog with a bone, will just not let go. I think they are trying to discredit Hillary in 2016. They’re scared silly of Hillary.

glenn : KT–And, by the way, love the “flaming salamander”. Would that be Cruz’s father?

glenn : KT–According to articles I have read, the whole report was bogus and kept referring to things that were not true. And, I don’t know about you, but I’m still trying to figure out just what the “scandal” is regarding Benghazi.

KillgoreTrout : The guest is always mysterious.

KillgoreTrout : Sure glenn. What did they actually expose. I know some journalist lied on the show about Benghazi.

glenn : KT–and, if you’re still here, who is the “guest”?

glenn : KT–are you still here? Shall we talk about the 60 Minutes take on Benghazi now?

glenn : CL–I’m still here. May stick around for a while, but I don’t know who else is still here. Looks like it’s just KT and me!

glenn : G’night to you, too Choice Lady!

choicelady : Oh – glenn is still here? Why’d I think she’d left already? Good night glenn!

KillgoreTrout : Flaming Salamader. Now that’s just plain laughable. And people bought it too.

kesmarn : Have a great weekend, dear friends!

glenn : G’night AdLib and Kesmarn. Have a great weekend!

choicelady : Good night kes! KT – sorry, but I think I have to go leaving you ALONE here. At least until Murph and funk show up. I’m just knackered. Good night everyone!

KillgoreTrout : Thanks kes and CL.

choicelady : Good night, AdLib! Sweet dreams!

choicelady : KT – I always said that I had enough trouble with the ‘burning bush’ in conventional Christianity. Can NOT deal with the ‘flaming salamander’ that brought the unseen tablets.

KillgoreTrout : Well kes, anything that Obama touches is bad, don’t cha know.

choicelady : AdLib – sorry to lose you! We will behave. We always clean up, too.

kesmarn : Have a great weekend, Ad! I’m going to have to follow you out the door, I’m afraid. The Fave 7th grader is coming over tomorrow.

KillgoreTrout : You too Ad. Take it easy.

choicelady : KT – what’s being cancelled – or recalled in a way – is VERY substandard insurance. It has pretty low premiums but NO coverage without first paying HUGE deductibles. It is not equal to ACA standards. But people calculate only the premium and forget the out of pocket. If you have someone ill, it can be upwards of $10-15K PER PERSON before insurance can be USED. And they don’t see that. So they WANT it – and now, for 2014 – they CAN keep it.

kesmarn : Right, KT. He’s now saying that they can keep it. Even if it’s substandard according to the ACA. Why they’d WANT to keep it is beyond me, but there it is!

KillgoreTrout : Smith was aknown con man before he found the “gold tablets,” that no one has ever seen.

AdLib : Hey all, have to head out early tonight! Please, no tequila shots and karaoke on the pool table while I’m gone! Have a great evening all!

kesmarn : I think that if Bill has suggestions to offer, he should do it in private. To me it seems very unhelpful to publicly air his views. Even Dubya doesn’t do that.

KillgoreTrout : Aren’t the insurance companies dumping many of their policy holders? I’m not sure why people can’t keep their insurance, if that’s what they want.

choicelady : KT – Joseph Smith would have been of that mindset I think.

choicelady : kes – I don’t see Bill as being that deep. Sorry – used to like him. Now? Not so much.

choicelady : KT -Clinton said PBO had to “honor his promises’ as if he didn’t.

kesmarn : KT, the day before the Prez made his announcement, Clinton said in an interview that he though the Prez should “honor his commitment and let people keep what they got.” At first I was really irked. But then I got to thinking that Bill is a very cagey man and he might have been suggesting that it’s best to just give some of these whiners enough rope to hang themselves and then stand back. I dunno.

choicelady : glenn – Hillary better NOT distance herself from PBO. He is all she has. ONLY her record as SOS gives her cred. Her life in the White House was not productive of anything.

choicelady : kes – No. Clinton does not drive PBO’s decisions. I think he realized when the cancellation upset hit that he had to do this. Clinto should have stayed OUT of it. I’m getting really tired of him – he failed at almost everything and let the GOP run amok, and he has the NERVE to talk?

KillgoreTrout : CL, sounds like Joseph Smith!

KillgoreTrout : Good question kes. I don’t know what Clinton actually said though.

glenn : Kes–The answer to your question about Clinton, IMO, is “yes”. Also, Clinton is thinking about his wife running in 2016, and I think, wants to distance her somewhat from President Obama.

choicelady : KT – I know. It makes Me laugh, too, but honestly – these were well educated people, and she suckered them into this sleazy ‘religion’. Got rich off them of course.

choicelady : glenn – Yup. Belief is everything. But we see that with EmoProgs, too – they “KNOW” all that’s wrong with America so they do not actually have any obligation to DO anything.

kesmarn : This is a total change of subject, but what are your thoughts? Does anyone wonder if Bill Clinton’s comments about “letting people keep their plans” carried any weight or was a factor in the Prez’s decision to extend those plans for a year?

KillgoreTrout : That’s actually funny CL. Pathetic, but funny.

glenn : CL–But haven’t we talked about this “responsibility ” idea before? If you “believe” enough, then you don’t have to take any responsibility for yourself, not to mention others, because it’s your belief that determines the outcome, not your responsibility for your actions. Of course, you have to be able to reflect on your actions, and not blame them on someone else.

choicelady : AdLib – and sometimes you work your butt off and STILL get nowhere. And that is NOT a reflection on your worth, only on where others are at the time.

KillgoreTrout : No doubt Ad.I think a few million suckers actually purchased that POS DVD.

choicelady : KT – metaphysic uber alles! Shroud anything, and people will buy it. How ELSE to explain the Yuppies who followed Sister Claire to underground bunkers waiting to fend off robots from outer space? Anyone who buys into what sound like the old Rocky & Bullwinkle “Six Foot Metal Munching Moon Mice” script can be sold just about ANYTHING.

AdLib : KT – It’s really just “Wishing Well” BS. Yes, being focused on a goal and dedicating yourself to it does make it more likely to achieve something but just wishing for things and not taking action to make them happen is feel good BS meant to sucker in those who just want the easy path to whatever they want.

kesmarn : Good analogy, c’lady!! Yes, they put the individual into the God role — and that ain’t a good fit for most people.

choicelady : kes – it does mean no one has any responsibility for others, yes.

choicelady : Everyone – the “Secret” of ‘think it and be it’ is the spiritual version of Ayn Rand positivism. You are the sole generator of YOUR life. If you’re poor, it cannot be about discrimination, racism, or bias or class warfare – YOU aren’t GOOD enough. You’re not trying HARD enough.

kesmarn : Thank you for the kind words, c’lady. She did a lot for me as well. She was a very giving person.

kesmarn : AdLib, they really are very cruel people — the people who peddle this “you get what you wish hard for” stuff. Did Jesus wish for torture, poverty, scorn and crucifixion? Their BS just doesn’t add up.

KillgoreTrout : Oh, correction, I called a dvd The Promise, but it’s actually, The Secret. Just wish for anything hard enough and you will get it. Of course it’s cloaked in metaphysics, just to make it sound more credible.

choicelady : kes – I think what you gave her was PEACE. Thank you for doing that for her!

choicelady : glenn – yes – that IS the ‘prosperity gospel’

AdLib : Kes – That really is upsetting! They dupe people into these BS philosophies…t o drain them of money then when the BS fails, they blame themselves! This is why I really despise those behind such BS.

kesmarn : “Blaming the victim” indeed, c’lady. I worked hard to disabuse her of that notion before she died. I think she did eventually figure it all out.

choicelady : KT – GREAT book, “Terror in the Mind of God” points out how much that rigidity comes to a sheep/goats dichotomy of good/bad. It lets us hate everyone NOT us. No good can come of that.

glenn : CL–Well, isn’t the “prosperity doctrine” the same thing? You’ll be prosperous if you just believe hard enough. It’s kind of like Tinkerbell. If you just believe hard enough, you’ll be saved. It has nothing to do with how you actually LIVE your life–just what you BELIEVE.

choicelady : kes – Ohhh that’s heartbreaking. That mindset is SO destructive to dealing with one’s problems because it is a form of SELF blaming of the victim! I’m so sorry for her!

KillgoreTrout : CL, Christianity and most all other religions are philosophy too. Holy script taken literally, word for word erases any philosophical intent. It’s reading with blinders on.

kesmarn : I had a dear friend who got sucked into that “you get what you envision for yourself” false spirituality. She got cancer and wracked her brains trying to figure out why/how she had “wished this upon” herself. It was heart-breaking.

choicelady : kes – INDEED!

choicelady : AdLib -EXACTLY. I’m saved. They suck. It’s just an awful notion.

choicelady : KT – I simply do NOT get fundies. Just don’t. I get Tao and a thousand other ways of finding spirituality, but that’s hateful and rigid and antithetical to life. I don’t care if it’s Christian, Muslim, or anything else – just do NOT get it.

AdLib : CL – I’m right with you on that, it always angers me, not because the person is a bad person but claiming God or Jesus saved you from a disaster while so many others died is the act of the simple minded and an oblivious pissing on the lives of all those who died as “lesser”.

kesmarn : Exactly, c’lady. It seems there are lots of ways to get the enrollment process completed. This is a lot of noise about a problem that is well on the way to being solved.

choicelady : “Jellyfish Caucus” was coined by someone, MARWBI over at The People’s View. I said I’d pinch it but give footnotes and “mouth notes” to the origin, and I am.

KillgoreTrout : Great point CL. So many fundamentalists think that way.

choicelady : kes – lots of people are doing snail mail, phone, finding Navigators like our beloved Murph so they can bypass the web site. It’s working quite well now, but other routes are good routes.

glenn : CL–I know what you mean about Dems standing firmly. Just when they stood firmly during the shutdown, they’re now willing to “cowtow” to the repubs again. Jellyfish caucus, indeed!

choicelady : glenn – you’re welcome. And may GA NOT be hacked. How’s that for a need to say?

glenn : CL–“That’d undermine a very good story of PBO’s incompetence, right?” Can’t have that, can we? And, thanks for the info about the different states.

choicelady : ADLIb – the most horrible word I hear in a disaster are from survivors who say “God (Jesus) blessed me” as if those who died WERE NOT WORTHY. I just HATE that!

kesmarn : glenn, I doubt very much if the pundits have checked back at the website! And truthfully, I don’t really know the answer to your question. Since I have coverage, I didn’t research too deeply. But it did seem clear that it would be pretty easy to work around any problems by going the paper route.

KillgoreTrout : I have heard it said that turnabout is fair play.

choicelady : glenn – I am about to suggest to the 39 who voted for the horrible Upton bill in the House today – the “Jellyfish Caucus” that they GET A SPINE. When they stand firmly, they win. When they waffle, they lose. You’d THINK they could figure this out, but nooooo.

AdLib : CL – Exactly, that simplistic, childish philosophy means that those killed by natural disasters, rape victims, those contracting terrible illnesses as children, are all to blame themselves for it. No, we do not all get everything we wish for, our choices are complicated by conflicts with the choices other people have made in the past, present and future.

KillgoreTrout : CL, that reminds me of that BS dvd called “The Promise.” Just wish hard enough and you will get what you want. Of course it was heavily disguised in metaphysics.

choicelady : glenn – it should NOT make a difference which state. I’ve done research for other people in other states. NOT to say it’s not being sabotaged – see our various posts here – but when you have no state exchange, it should just handle you systematically. I don’t see any difference other than “routing” to state exchanges or federal. And no – the pundits have not tried. That’d undermine a very good story of PBO’s incompetence, right?

glenn : KT–It’s too bad Dems aren’t as determined to destroy everything they don’t agree with. Then maybe Dems could engage in a little high-tech sabotage on sites like the NRA website. But, then again, resorting to the bagger tactics makes us no better than them, so I guess it’s a bad idea. But, a person can dream, right? (And, I mean “right” in the political sense, not the “correct” sense).

choicelady : kes – I understood that. It’s a very demented version of ‘Social Darwinism’ that posits if you REALLY believe in Jesus, you’ll have a condo in FL and a BMW. And if you don’t – you do NOT really believe. But the Oprah part is incorrect – she has her own problems with spirituality manifesting in “if you want it you’ll get it” kind of quasi New Age stuff. Again – she’s a freaking billionair – so maybe she’s right! It’s part of ‘The Secret’ that says YOU entirely without any other fact shape your life. Taken to logical ends, it makes the Jews responsible for the Holocaust. Ugh.

glenn : Kes–do you remember the first few days of October when all the t.v. pundits were trying to get on the website? Do you think they’re still trying? And, I do have a question that you or CL may be able to answer. When going to the federal website, does it make a difference which state your searching from? If you’re in a state like mine, whose attorney general has sworn to do everything he can to undermine the ACA, does it make a difference when trying to get on the federal site? That seems to me to be another thing the MSM is not addressing.

kesmarn : Right, c’lady. I had no problem with the website. I have coverage so I didn’t need it, but just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. As usual — it was about nothing.

KillgoreTrout : CL, I have suspected sabotage of the ACA website. A little high tech terrorism.

AdLib : CL – Saw articles on that, the GOP is coordinating attacks on the site! That is treason! I sure wish Holder and the DoJ would get aggressive against this anti-American sabotage of our assets and programs?

kesmarn : c’lady to go back to that quote I posted — I should have clarified that it was meant to be a critique of the kind of false Christianity that supports materialism.

choicelady : AdLib – Sure! Be glad to!

choicelady : kes – it’s been working quite well for four weeks now. CANNOT get the MSM to pay a shred of attention.

AdLib : CL – Would you be able to write a brief post for next week that explains those numbers? I don’t know of too many sites reporting that and we really need to get the word out…especially with the dogpiling on the ACA and Obama the MSM is engaging in.

kesmarn : Just out of curiosity I went to the Healthcare.gov site yesterday. I had no problem getting the page to load. Took me about two minutes to download the pdf for getting a paper application. No problem. It’s not the train-wreck it’s being depicted as.

choicelady : glenn – the war on America goes on unabated. It’s freaking me out.

choicelady : glenn and AdLib – we also discovered three or four different investigations into deliberate sabotage of healthcare.gov. THAT is not making news either.

glenn : CL–Talk about “hope and change”. The baggers are the ones who are trying to change our government through their hope in the Almighty. You know, with the record number of filibusters, shutting down the government over a constitutionally -passed and constitutionally -upheld law, passing laws that undermine other laws (like abortion), and shutting down private entities like abortion clinics. Not to mention the disrespect for the President of the United States, as well as the disrespect for people who disagree with them. I say, “No, thank you” to their type of change.

KillgoreTrout : CL

choicelady : kes – I think that is NOT the fundamentalist view – they hate Oprah – but it IS a view. It’s another form of ‘feel good’ religiosity. It’s not my memebers, but it IS a way of dealing with finding ‘meaning’ in one’s life. Whatever floats your boat.

KillgoreTrout : CL that’s a damn shame.

choicelady : glenn – nationally about 100,000 are fully signed up for the Exchange, but almost 500,000 for Medicaid. The others have accounts and are still looking – and that’s important because health care is more like buying a HOUSE than blue jeans. Overall the FAMILY count is 1.5 million in one of those categories.

kesmarn : Quote from an article posted by a friend: “We’re drinking a cocktail that’s a mix of the Protestant work ethic, the American dream, and the gospel. And we’ve intertwined them so completely that we can’t tell them apart anymore. Our gospel has become a gospel of following your dreams and being good so God will make all your dreams come true. It’s the Oprah god.”

KillgoreTrout : I saw today that Palin had to do some real back peddelling for calling the Pope a “liberal.”

AdLib : CL – The MSM seems to intentionally avoid announcing the national numbers on enrollment, that 1.5 million. instead all they want to talk about are how many have been enrolled through the federal site.

glenn : CL–I’m not disputing your figures, because I know how informed about this you are, but all I have read is how FEW people have actually taken out policies. Your figures are for people who are still “shopping”, is that right?

KillgoreTrout : Absolutely glenn. The baggers are still wailing about how Obama care is “bad for the economy.” Real numb skulls.

choicelady : AdLib – honestly part of it is that they have nothing, have been told belief in Jesus will GET them what they need, see the Dems as highly diverse religiously, and they CANNOT bring themselves to ally with liberals who don’t believe. All hope is vested in devotion to Jesus, rules, and conservative obedience. ALL hope.

kesmarn : KT, Black Friday is pretty much the Anti-Christmas, isn’t it? There’s something about this “tradition” (that didn’t exist in my childhood) that really creeps me out!

kesmarn : AdLib, blaming the minority person is always so much easier than self-examination and diligent study/work, no?

choicelady : KT – yeah did you not remember the New Testament passage about ‘trample thy neighbor to get a deal’?

glenn : KT–Of course, that’s the Christmas spirit–it’s the “free market”, dontcha know?

choicelady : KT – I would LOVE if the MSM would acknowledge that enrollments, accounts, etc have exceeded expectations for October – 1.5 million in Exchanges, have accounts and are shopping, and in Medicaid. THAT is HUGE. And it get bupkis.

KillgoreTrout : What really gets me is how, on Black Friday, these nit wits will trample each other trying to get their goodies at a low price. That’s the Christmas spirit?

glenn : Kes–The tundra twit was to whom I was referring when I talked about the baggers writing books about the war on Christmas. Not only that–but you can listen to the twit herself read it on audio! UGHHHHHH

kesmarn : Right, c’lady. Her visceral reaction of hostility toward the new Pope is a clear signal that he’s on the right track.

AdLib : Kes – I think you’re onto something there. I’ve read some thoughtful articles that propose that allying with the wealthy is a form of denial and wish fulfillment, many of those people are in desperate straits but NEED to believe that one day they too will be a millionaire and they want taxes low for when that day comes. Meanwhile, they live in poor conditions with few prospects of getting out of them so of course, the racism plays well with them, blaming Latinos and blacks for their poverty and lack of options.

KillgoreTrout : Ah yes, the Almighty Dollar.

choicelady : kes – she wouldn’t know Jesus if he came up and kissed her. And she’d shove him away as a brown hairy dude. Please.

glenn : KT–But President Obama did address the economy. NOt only with the ACA, but with the stimulus that the repubs/tbaggers fought tooth and nail. You know, that stimulus that lyin’Ryan complained about, then took money from.

KillgoreTrout : Once Obama care realling gets rolling, the TPers will have a lot of crow to eat.

kesmarn : I hear that the Tundra Twunt has written a book about Christmas. It’s a combination of paranoid rants about how persecuted Christians are and a cookbook and list of materialistic gift suggestions. Sound like something Jesus would go for?

choicelady : A couple of years ago during the War on Christmas, there was a fullpage ad from Coit cleaners with a crèche and “Jesus is the Reason for the Season.” Such NAKED pandering for business! Sorry – I do NOT take faith principles from a freaking CARPET CLEANER! I found that SO offensive but Bill O LOVED it!

KillgoreTrout : What gets me is when the TPGOPers complain and say the 1st thing Obama should have done was to address the economy. They fail to understand that healthcare is a huge part of the economy.

kesmarn : c’lady, good point. Anything can be sacrificed if there’s even the slightest illusion of potential gain…

choicelady : KT – oh give me a break. ALL they have done is put commercialism BACK in Christmas. I want to say to BIll O – don’t help!

glenn : KT–NOt only do baggers “howl and moan” about the war on Christmas–they write books about it, and make money off it. Talk about a war on Christmas!

choicelady : kes – I think you’re absolutely correct. Remember Susan whoever who drowned her kids to be with the man she loved who was rich but did not want her kids? THAT is how powerful WANT is.

KillgoreTrout : CL, and every year they howl and moan about the “war on Christmas.”

AdLib : And let’s not forget how the Baggers want to kill Obamacare…mean while, they are a big percentage of those benefiting from the Medicaid expansion (in non-red states) and who need low cost healthcare the most. Just waiting for Ted Cruz to urge Baggers to cut off their nose to spite their liberal-leaning faces.

kesmarn : Sometimes I wonder if baggers ally themselves emotionally with the wealthy as a defense again the terror they feel at the thought of facing their downward economic mobility.

choicelady : glenn – I cannot imagine your students not remembering you and what you said without a great fondness.

glenn : CL–I’m pretty sure it did take with some of my students. However, teaching is a long-term proposition, and since I taught elementary school, it may be a while if I ever know if it “took”.

choicelady : KT – I was saying just today that I cannot figure out when carrying a lunch box, living a comfortable but not very exalted life got to be BAD. think of the family in “The Christmas Movie”. Who’d think that was good today? Those WERE our standards of success. Now they’d be scorned.

KillgoreTrout : They are incapable of using logic.

kesmarn : C’lady, Cobb county is the one glenn mentioned earlier in which the plan is for a tax increase to be funneled into building a stadium. While health care for the poor is off the table.

KillgoreTrout : Baggers would rather drive to work instead of carrying a lunch.

choicelady : glenn and AdLib – OK. Got it. Missed that entirely.

choicelady : glenn – it’s because you’re educated. Thank you for trying to pass that on. Let’s hope it took with some of your students!

AdLib : CL – The Cobb County giveaway to the Braves.

glenn : CL–I think AdLib is referring to Cobb County, GA, the county that is offering the stadium deal to the Atlanta Braves.

choicelady : KT – I think you figured that out correctly – that’s a very fine point.

glenn : CL–Oh, don’t worry, I had no doubt they were compliments. I actually do comprehend what I read, and the context in which I read.

choicelady : AdLib – uhhhh – Cobb deal?

KillgoreTrout : Those that know the least, obey the best!

AdLib : CL – Though I know how their ignorant army of citizens are brainwashed, it still astounds me that those who don’t have money fight so hard to keep the wealthy getting the lions share of wealth. The logic is just bewildering but I know, this has nothing to do with logic…as the Cobb deal demonstrates.

kesmarn : Our pleasure, glenn.

choicelady : glenn – And compliments they are!

glenn : KT, CL, and Kes–thanks for the compliments.

choicelady : AdLib – Back in 1982 re: Reagan, Boston Globe columnist Ellen Goodman asked, “Why do the rich need incentives but the poor need desperation?” That is STILL the GOP policy!

KillgoreTrout : Great minds!

KillgoreTrout : Bless you glenn.

kesmarn : Triple jinx on that one.

choicelady : KT – bingo.

choicelady : AdLib – bingo. That would be the way. Free money for those who already have money

kesmarn : Uh alwayz new you wuz a commie, glenn…

KillgoreTrout : glenn, you commie socialist Maoist!

choicelady : glenn – YOU COMMIENAZI you!!!

AdLib : CL – Because the “Free Market” is short for “Free Money For Wealthy People Invested in the Stock Market”.

glenn : KT–I know that I certainly tried my best to “brainwash” those kids when I was teaching. You know, I tried to teach them how to think critically, how to solve problems, both mathematically and personally, and how to read and more importantly, how to comprehend what they read. You know, all those hated, liberal values.

choicelady : kes – the Buffalo mayor was in for several terms being replaced by an even BIGGER crook. Sigh.

AdLib : KT – That is a great title and does call out those hypocrites.

choicelady : glenn – why do they call it ‘free market’? Because WE pay for it.

kesmarn : c’lady, I hear you on the Buffalo situation. Toledo’s mayor sold prime riverfront real estate to the Chinese “to balance the budget.” The promised “development” has never happened. Fortunately Toledo voters just threw him out after one term.

AdLib : Baggers remind me of Nazi collaborators, they support the very people and policies that are meant to oppress them…and are proud of it. “Vote Republican! So many mentally ill people can’t be wrong!”

KillgoreTrout : They teach subjects like evolution, science and technology. Can’t have that, now.

glenn : Ad–I was pleased that the headline of the article I quoted earlier is, “In anti-tax Cobb, so many dogs aren’t barking”

KillgoreTrout : The baggers are anti-education. You know, all teachers are liberal commies trying to brainwash bagger kids.

choicelady : AdLib – the conservatives want to keep money in their pockets to PAY to see the sports stars and NOT to educate the kids.

kesmarn : glenn, I don’t doubt it at all that Kasich benefited somehow. If only having a large circle of pals to look after him should be not be re-elected.

glenn : CL–I’m with you. If the free market is so great, then why can’t those professional teams pay for their own damn stadiums? Or, if they serve the “public good”, then why can’t we pay for schools the same way?

choicelady : gleen and kes – I used to fume at Buffalo’s mayor because yes, he traded snowplowing contracts for votes. But then we got a ‘reform mayor’ who traded the WATERFRONT property for votes. The corrupt guy is lookin’ pretty good these days.

AdLib : glenn – That’s exactly what I’m thinking, where is the MSM outrage over that kind of obvious hypocrisy? And the screwed up priorities, paying millionaire athletes a fortune is a must but paying teachers to educate our kids is an outrage?

kesmarn : AdLib, his opponent Ed Fitzgerald is doing a good job of hammering. They are neck and neck in the polls now. The only reason Kasich allowed the Medicaid expansion here is to desperately try to stay viable.

choicelady : glenn – it makes ME nuts to listen to the anti-public employee rants, but the conservatives extol athletes as exceptional values in a ‘free market’.

glenn : Kes–OMG–what is wrong with these people? And, I would bet my bottom dollar that Kasich made money off that deal somehow.

glenn : KT–Doesn’t it just blow your mind that not one bagger complains about the salaries baseball players make, while still supporting higher taxes for that PRIVATE entity; yet will complain to the max about teachers’ salaries, and supporting PUBLIC schools? It just makes my head hurt at the hypocrisy!

choicelady : KT – sure the league could. But with friends like our mayor, washed up basketball star Kevin Johnson, they don’t have to.

AdLib : Kes – That’s outrageous! I really hope that whoever rins against him hammers him on all he has done to bleed the taxpayers of OH and feather his friends’ nests.

KillgoreTrout : Oh no doubt, but those players make millions. I know the league doesn’t want cough up, but they sure could.

choicelady : kes – oh that’s simply amazing graft and corruption in OH. I am SO sorry that’s happening to a state that REALLY needs help!

choicelady : KT – BACON! Yummmm.

kesmarn : glenn — just one example: he “privatized” the state jobs service. Created an entity called “JobsOhio.” It channeled state tax money to private individuals. Nobody I know has ever heard of anyone actually getting a job through this outfit. Then the head honcho of JobsOhio moved out of state, set up a venture capital fund. Three guesses who has invested many millions into this fund? Yep. Ohio State University.

AdLib : CL – Yes, I know Anjuli went over there, very happy to hear she remains interested!

choicelady : KT – my understanding is that it’s not players’ salaries but corporate greed. Even when they’re rolling in dough, they play po- mouth and ‘build it or they will leave’ games.

glenn : CL–NOt sure yet if the taxpayers of Cobb County will get to vote on it, or if the county commission can pass the plan without voter approval.

AdLib : Kes – I know what you mean buy usually they make martyrs of people like Amy and many step up to follow her lead. I do think that’s happened but not with the major corporate MSM outlets.

KillgoreTrout : Doing well. I just had a great bacon sandwich!

choicelady : glenn – yes, but if we get lucky we will have a vote on it, and I’m NOT sure it will pass.

choicelady : KT – Yup. CL, or what’s left of her, is here. How are YOU?

choicelady : Hi AdLib – talked with Anjuli Kronheim today and reminded her and her boss of HOPE. She went to another group that does different work, but she’s STILL interested.

glenn : CL–So, are you all paying for a new stadium for the Kings?

KillgoreTrout : CL is in da house!

glenn : Kes–so what has Kasich funneled money to?

kesmarn : Sometimes I wonder if what happened to Amy Goodman at the GOP Convention was meant to be a little warning to any journalist who had dreams of independence….

AdLib : Hey CL!

glenn : Kes–Here is the plan, as reported in the AJC: “Republican-rul ed Cobb County will finance the Atlanta Braves’ move to the ‘burbs to the tune of $302 million, with a property tax shift for all, a 3-mill property tax increase for some, a new car rental tax, and a hotel room tax.” And the county commission chairman expects a unanimous vote for the plan!

KillgoreTrout : With the hugely expensive ticket prices in pro baseball, why can’t the league build it’s own stadium? One reason is they’re paying their players waaaay too much.

choicelady : That was “HEY”. Sigh.

choicelady : kes – he right back! How are you?

choicelady : kes and KT – that’s what I hear about OHIO from folks I know back there. The GOP these days make Mayor Daley and Tammany Hall look benevolent. THEY helped the little guys.

kesmarn : Hey, c’lady!

KillgoreTrout : kes, every chance he gets.

choicelady : Evening all – just read glenn on the Braves. Same here on the Kings. And we think we got it made. Hope y’all have better sense!

AdLib : It’s kind of galling that we don’t have a truly independent press that would lay out this massive hypocrisy side-by-side with Repubs wanting massive food stamp cuts.

kesmarn : Kasich has really plundered and pillaged Ohio on behalf of his cronies in the private sector, hasn’t he KT?

KillgoreTrout : LOL! kes! good one.

glenn : Ad–Yup–a scalping is coming up. And, here we are in GA without full access to the ACA when their heads start hurtin’.

kesmarn : glenn — and the plan is to raise taxes to funnel $$ to a private entity building this stadium?? Somebody’s been studying the John Kasich Book of VooDoo Gummint.

KillgoreTrout : A giant baseball stadium and no healthcare? Definitely bagger country.

AdLib : glenn – And you know how all construction estimates are lowballed and always spiral much higher. Cobb County taxpayers are going to be scalped by the Braves.

glenn : Hey Kes–that’s right. Sorry, I put Ad’s name on my reply to you. Gotta love the “logic” of baggers!

KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad, not much glenn and hey Homie!

kesmarn : Hey, Homie!

glenn : Hey KT–what’s shakin’?

AdLib : Evening KT!

KillgoreTrout : Good evening Planet peeps. Bagger don’t care!

AdLib : But of course, welfare for the wealthy is a-ok in Bagger logic.

glenn : Ad–Yup–that’s the battle cry. Not to mention that the money is going to a private entity. I’m just shaking my head. Luckily, I don’t live in Cobb County–the state is not going to raise taxes (or at least, that hasn’t been mentioned yet), just the county. And…let’s not even talk about the transportation problems. But, IOIYAR.

AdLib : glenn – And studies have conclusively shown that unlike safety net programs, giveaways to pro teams for stadiums are always a losing investment for towns. A total ripoff of taxpayers.

kesmarn : Bagger battle cry, glenn? “Millions for stadiums, but not one penny for health care!” Good Friday evening!

glenn : Ad–No more games until next weekend when we have a final tournament. Still have practice three evenings a week, though.

glenn : Ad–So, here’s the news in baggerland. The Atlanta Braves didn’t like the deal that Atlanta/Fulton County was offering, so a neighboring county, Cobb County, is working on a deal with the team. And…guess what? Here in baggerland, where the state won’t take money for Medicare for the ACA, the baggers are willing to actually raise taxes to pay for the stadium to go to Cobb County. One of the bagger leaders is “excited” about the move. Nary a word about how taxes might have to be raised. Ain’t that sumpin’?

AdLib : How are you doing, glenn? Granddaughter’s soccer game tomorrow morning?

AdLib : Doing well. Busy week but a good week. Just annoyed by all the anti-Obamacare blather in the MSM.

glenn : Ad–There you go! Much better way to put it. So, how are you?

AdLib : You mean our “Ford Pickup”?

glenn : Ad–Okay, I guess. As long as they’re not stealing our “crack”.

AdLib : Evening glenn! It either means that Google is indexing our articles for seaching through them or they are sneaking around trying to steal our cookies!

glenn : ‘Evening, AdLib. Hey, I have a question. What does it mean if “google is crawling the site?”

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “BaggerDon’tCa re” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Rob Ford is bringing the refreshments tonight so it should be quite a night! Hope to see you then!