• AdLib : True dat!

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s not religion that corrupts men, it’s men that corrupt religion.

  • AdLib : KT – Just saying that one can best characterize a religion by it’s overwhelming majority while recognizing that an extremist minority uses that religions beliefs (corrupts them, really) to justify doing terrible things. It’s just being realistic and factually accurate to say that most Muslims in America are not dangerous or destructive people. In fact, most Christians aren’t either but look at the horrible things they do as politicians, mass murderers, etc.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, in the words of the late great John Lennon, “You may say that I’m a dreamer…..but I’m not the only one. Thank you so much for staying with me beyond the witching hour. Love ya bud.

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, I’ve mentioned before my dismay at how we’re just not going down the path towards a Star Trek future. Where religion, materialism and all are secondary to the progress and improvement of the standard of living of human society.

  • KillgoreTrout : ad, I’m saying if you credit a certain number with being good, don’t you have to credit another number as being bad? Personally, I think the idea of only good or only bad is bogus? It’s like saying everything it black and white.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I can appreciate your view on this. I am taking the much larger, “imagine,” scenario. “Imagine no relgion….” I did imagine that. I have seen the good results of Christian, Islamic and Judaic beliefs in action. i also see, everyday the other side of that coin (to put it in modern parlance). What I am suggesting is a world without religion. A world based on knowledge, science, philosophy and just general good heartedness. I know my dreams are not realistic. I realize that materialism always wins out. I just don’t see religion as being beneficial or key to the accomplishments that would lead to a better world. In all the time that our orthodox religions have existed, why is the world still such a fucked up place?

  • AdLib : KT, not sure what you’re saying, that because some religious extremists commit terrible acts it’s giving them a pass not to look at all people in that religion as being just as horrible? It is simply a fact, being Muslim doesn’t make you a terrible person and most Muslims aren’t terrorists. Isn’t it unfair to paint the majority with the brush of the small, terrible minority?

  • AdLib : KT – I think that there are mentally disturbed and desperate people throughout the human race who would always find some vehicle to fuel and justify their terrible actions. There are those who use religion, those who use race, those who use nationality, those who use poverty or wealth, on and on. Human beings are flawed and emotionally complex creatures. SOme people are wired badly and can’t deal with their emotions, their fear, insecurity, frustrations, etc. Remember what they said was the main recruiting tool for Al Qaeda? It wasn’t religion, it was oppressive poverty that so many young men in the ME live in. When you have a life to live for, you don’t blow yourself up. Just saying, there are many factors that make one person hostile and the next person compassionate. Religion is a big influence but it is one of many.

  • KillgoreTrout : Saying they aren’t all extremists sort of gives a pass to those that are. You can’t include the bad guys with the good guys. That’s the thing about religion. It becomes very subjective. Who determines what is “good, or what is “bad?” That’s the danger.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, think if there were noseperate religions that “might,” succumb to violent action. Many people don’t do what they’d like because of our “secular,” laws. I have no doubt that extremists would lynch, intimidate through violent means, if it weren’t for the fact that they would pay for their actions in a severe way. Thank goodness this is true. Can you imagine all the racist, homophobic Christian fundamentilists would behave if it weren’t for our secular laws? They would glagly stone women, beat women and deny them a chance to educate themselves. They would hang gay people and any person of a race they felt threatened by. I’m sorry, but you can have your religions. I’ll take secular humanism, every time.

  • AdLib : But KT, aren’t these all the extremists of religions who cause all the death and destruction? We have millions of Muslims in the US and 99.9% of them have never harmed others. It’s the extremists who are to blame.

  • KillgoreTrout : Just look at all the death and destruction that has come about because of Islamic extremism. People are fighting, killing and dieing because of religious beliefs. We seem to insist upon a common religion, Christianity, agaisnt Islam. Our military almost demands participation in Christian prayer sessions. I was in the military and I know this to be true. Anybody who thinks we are not at war with a differing ideology does not know the truth. This is why i say religion is an infection upon the body of mankind.

  • AdLib : Well, we can’t change the way things are immediately so the best we can do is think about how things should be and work towards that.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, should be, is a key phrase here. The reality is that religious tribalsim does indeed hinder our progress as a species, for all the reasons I’ve already stated.

  • AdLib : KT – Religion shouldn’t be seen as a means of human progress or a compnent of it. Like the separation of church and state, there should be a separation of church and progress. People should be free to have whatever beliefs they choose but they shouldn’t interfere with the improvement and progress of humanity.

  • KillgoreTrout : My original point Ad, is that religion is not a good means of human progress. We do not need all the limitations and scary rules, to be good, moral people. Morality does not depend on religion.

  • AdLib : I always say that, KT, we are not what we believe, we are the choices we make and the actions we take.

  • KillgoreTrout : Absolutely Ad. I will say that I have met some truely devout Christians who go out of there comfy lives, to bring heathy foods and just sometimes kind words to those who desperately need such comforts. I admire that, because it is action and not just lip service. It’s not what we say in life, it’s what we do that matters.

  • AdLib : Either your religion teaches you to care for your neighbor or not, Jesus never said, “Love thy neighbor…only if he’s Christian.”

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, we are actually agreed on this. The fundies actually make the case against the righteousness of their religion. Maybe they are the majority of most religions, maybe just some but insisting that others follow their religious beliefs or they won’t help them is bigotry and offensive.

  • KillgoreTrout : I actually left that SA post and sought my meal elsewhere.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, how many religious “do gooders,’ would seek to do good for those that don’t share their beliefs? How many “Christian,” altruists would help gays, adulteres or non believers? I was once homeless and ended up at a salvation army post. Before you could eat, you had to praise Jesus. If you didn’t, you were asked to leave. Do you understand what I am saying. The religious as opposed to the secular world view?

  • AdLib : Agreed, those who need to believe that every word in the Bible needs to be taken literally and need for that to stand as undisputed, necessarily need to fight against progress and science since reality disputes a fundamentalist interpretation of The Bible and such small minded people can’t accept that they’re flat out wrong in reading the Bible as a factual history book.

  • KillgoreTrout : Look at the arguments of Neil De Grasse Tyson. A remarkable man of science. He explains the graduation or (god forbid) evolution of creationism and evolution. His arguments are truly note worthy. People who keep denying science in the defense of the “god theory,” are truly those who seek to keep us from advancing as a species. And they attempt this in the name of personal advancement or some whako theory about armadegdon.

  • AdLib : KT – No question that the religious fundamentalists are the enemies of science and progress. But they are only a segment of those who are religious. What many don’t know (but we do thanks to Choicelady) is that there is a sizable community of religious Progressives who support science, progress, civil rights and agree that The Earth is billions of years old, not thousands. But since they’re not the screamers and the fundies are, many think the fundies represent all religious folk.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I never said belong to, or believing in a monotheistic religion makes one evil. I am saying that religion, on the whole keeps the human race from progressing. Strict adherense to scripture, religious law, what ever you choose to assign, prevents mankind from thinking outside the box. Just look at the evolution deniers. People who, in the face of incontrivertable evidence, still believe that the world is only 6,000 years old. don’t you believe that such religious views are detrimental to scientific discovery? How about dinosaurs” ? How about the countless fossils? Do you not see the harm is such a blatant definance of scientific truth?

  • AdLib : But that’s the thing about beliefs, each individual is content with the one that they see as the most sensible and satisfying. I always wonder, how can Mormons really believe in their religion/cult? How can Scientologists believe in that? How can Ayn Randians believe in her as their God? Some people are messed up, that’s for sure, but they find the belief that speaks to them as the way things make sense. We can’t always understand the choices of others when it comes to religion. We just have to accept that we don’t agree with their views or see any reason to believe the way they do and just respect that they’ve chosen the beliefs that they believe are right for them…unless they do push that “one true religion” thing, then they lose my respect because they exhibit disrespect for everyone else outside their religion.

  • AdLib : KT – I get it. If one looks at things from one direction, that those who are the most hateful and intolerant in religions believe in a supreme being, that can’t be argued. But looking at it from the opposite direction, are all those who belong to a religion where there is belief in a supreme being hateful and intolerant? Of course not. So, I would argue that it can’t be seen as decisive that being a follower of a monotheistic religion makes one evil, it just gives those that have the seeds of being evil the fertile ground for it to grow. But that’s true of any belief system such as libertarianism, you have horrible people like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz using it to their ends and others on the Left using it to fight drug criminalization.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad I can’t appreciate any “philosophy that requires such obedience and restraints that are a part of orthodox religion. I think it’s fine for people to enlighten themselves by exploring different paths. I encourage it. I was raised Methodist. In times of trouble (shout out to Simon and Garfunkel) I looked for several differnt paths to help alleviate my pain. The only thing i have found, personally, that makes any real sense to me is the Tao. All else requires too much belief in the supernatural.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I truly respect CL. She is what I call, “a genuine.” She has the intelligence to see the many aspects of religion, both good and bad. I respect her views, and yours. I have just come to the place where I see the belief in supreme beings as a detriment to hum progress. I could use stronger words, but for the sake of civility, I will not use such words.

  • AdLib : KT – Agreed, I stand corrected, Taoism is more of a philosophy than a religion, it doesn’t have the trappings of religion. But as you noted, religions also are philosophical so there is that commonality to those who aren’t trapped by the “one true” issue.

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, that is a stumbling block for some but I know many for whom it never gets in the way. Choicelady is one of those wise folks.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I also don’t see Taoism as a religion. I see it much more as secular philosophy.

  • KillgoreTrout : no argument here Ad. As long as they do not let the concept of one true god get in the way of their altruism.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yep, I’m an avid reader of Sunday Funnies!

  • AdLib : Seeya later, Sally, enjoy your evening with hubby!

  • SallyT : AdLib never comments but I know for sure he has looked.

  • KillgoreTrout : All the better Sally. What are proportions anyway, in the larger scheme of things?

  • AdLib : KT – The fact that there are so many moral parallels between the Tao and Christianity make that very argument that religions do have many core beliefs that are compatible (except Scientology that is…which is a con game, not a religion). The people in religions who are focused on the bridges instead of the cliffs do their religions a great service. Respecting what feels right to another person when it comes to religion is a highly spiritual view IMO.

  • SallyT : Oh, I know my buddy is there! You never disappoint me, KT!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I will definitely do that. I apologize for not commenting last week.

  • SallyT : KT, it is a big glass!

  • SallyT : I will see you two on here later. KT, you better look at everyone of those cartoons I post! Love you both. Have a great weekend!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, if my typing here is any indication…so what?

  • SallyT : Well, my retired Teamster has brought me my second glass of wine. I won’t be able to type…..well, I won’t be about to type any better.

  • SallyT : I know, AdLib. It is the start of something.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, as you probably know about me, I am a Taoist. There is no supreme being in Taoism. There are no rules, no scrictues, no dos and don’ts. No punishment or promise of paradise. The Tao is just a collection of 81 ideogramd, written 500 years before the birth of Christ. There are many moral parallels between the Tao and Christianity, minus the hokus pocus. It’s real life wisdom and the best guide to genuine spirituality that I have ever seen. I’ve seen a lot of so called guides.

  • AdLib : I was very pleased to see House of Cards get all those Emmy noms, both for the series and Netflix for making it happen.

  • SallyT : Second season is about to start. Left us hanging and I can’t wait!

  • SallyT : Love House of Cards. Did you see how many Emmys it is up for?

  • SallyT : Great music, too.

  • SallyT : Right, AdLib, he was on 60 mins

  • AdLib : Sally – Right! Actually, 60 Minutes did a segment on it and I saw that.

  • SallyT : He didn’t make it here but was bigger than Elvis in South Africa.

  • SallyT : It is about a musician from Detroit in the late 60’s and early 70s. \

  • AdLib : Sally – Thanks for pointing it out, I will watch it. I took your advice on House of Cards and was glad I did!

  • SallyT : No don’t search it as that will ruin the movie.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally my foggy memory tells me I just saw an article on that film, but my swiss cheese memory can’t recall the subject. I’ll have to do a search.

  • AdLib : KT – We’re on the same page with that, I do not respect extremist or orthodox views because they are based in prejudice. One is superior to others? One is holier than others because they were born to parents who practice this religion instead of that religion? Ridiculous and offensive. There are many positive and wonderful beliefs in all religions and many negative beliefs among them too. Tolerance is a reflection of insight and wisdom and that is valued in all religions.

  • SallyT : It is a great story.

  • SallyT : KT, it has been on Starz this last month. I think it is available on Netflix now and Amazon. You need to watch it. You will like it, KT. And, you too, AdLib. It is a true documentary. It won the Academy Award last year for Best Documentary.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I must confess that I haven’t. I will mark it on my list to watch.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, Mr. Campbell didn’t actually say “theistic view.” What he said was “Mythology.” He also said that mythology is metaphor. He also said we need a “new,” mythology because our old noes no longer work.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yep, the End of Days crowd will look a bit silly then! Until then, they are more on the dangerous side.

  • SallyT : Of course!

  • AdLib : Night Sally, I too am looking forward to my Sunday Funnies…after my Music Thread Saturday of course!

  • SallyT : KT, have you watched Searching for Sugarman, yet?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey my friend, have a wonderful weekend. I look forward to your work this week.

  • AdLib : KT – As Joseph Campbell and other philosophers have noted, there is an inherent aspect of the human brain that naturally seeks a sense of spirituality and a theistic view of existence. Religions with similar stories cropped up in totally unrelated places in parts of the world that were unknown to each other and yet religions grew in each of them that bore striking similarities. It is part of our biology and there is a need for many to feel that there is one truth that can put their minds at ease. So, human nature can evolve and tolerance and wisdom along with it but it is a very gradual and long process.

  • KillgoreTrout : my point Ad, is that I don’t throw stones in any particular house. I don’t throw stones at all. I believe one of the wisest things I’ve ever read is the Buddhist teaching that all religions should be respected because they all are different paths to the same enlightenment. I have no problem with people who agree with such wisdom. My problem is with those who want to draw lines between the various orthodox religions. You honestly cannot deny that this is a huge problem in this world and a barrier to world peace. My problem is with with those who disagree with the wisdom of the Buddhists.

  • SallyT : Well, my two fine gentlemen, I think I will depart.

  • SallyT : Later when they have gone as the dinosaurs and have become fossil fuel.

  • SallyT : Right, AdLib!

  • SallyT : I think that some what that turmoil in the MidEast because that is when Jesus is suppose to come back and save the true believers. But, I think it will be funny as hell when that space ship shows up and asks up to board and tells them that they will have to stay and that we will be back to pump gas from them later.

  • AdLib : Night Murph, sleep well!

  • AdLib : Sally – Yes and that along with there being no change in the protection of pedophiles is why I am not fully sold on Pope Francis. He and the church needs to join us in the 21st century because tradition is fine but we don’t live in the past when children were disposable and women were inferior.

  • SallyT : You go count those sheep, Murph, but watch for the rams! They have been known to sneak up on you.

  • AdLib : KT – I don’t disagree that religion is responsible for the most bloodshed in human history and continues to be (though racism is working hard to compete). I also agree that being tolerant of others’ beliefs and not insisting that one’s own religion or belief is “the” way is key to being reflective of the love that religion is supposed to inspire. Many miss that and adhere to the intolerance of other beliefs and the inferiority of them. The irony is so blatant, how can people not see that people of another religion see them just as they see others? That if there is one true religion and if we will never know which one that may be (I think it’s the Festivus religion), then the odds are that one’s religion is the wrong one. So, maybe best not to throw stones when you live in glass houses…whereve r that saying comes from.

  • KillgoreTrout : Glad tidings Murph. You always add a great deal to our conversations.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Great discussion folks…time for me to count sheep….peace and the best to one and all.

  • KillgoreTrout : The new pope is refrehing in his bravery to speak out, but that will not rid us of the infection that catholicism is., or Islam, Judaism or any othe religion that professes the one true god concept. Don’t people see that it is this concept that keeps world peace at bay?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- good summary…I think your last point as to what is snapping them out of their delusion is both the bad news that has come their way when those they invested in betray them and in the good news that comes their way when those they detested do that which serves them (think ACA and in the case of one TP couple I know, the end of DADT, with a son in the Marine Corps)…..The buttons on the straightjacket are coming undone.

  • SallyT : AdLib, he is still a chauvinist when it comes to women, tho.

  • AdLib : Murph – Yep, I have never had the most positive feelings for Popes but I am cautiously optimistic that Pope Francis could help encourage more compassion and tolerance for those that the Church has historically attacked. As CL mentioned on my comment about him, I too do need to see him moving the church to take responsibility for and help put in jail those who abused children.

  • KillgoreTrout : Great point Murph. I for one though, have left my ambivelence behind me. I absolutely have no faith in a supreme being.

  • SallyT : Here you go, Murph…«link» odex.wordpress.o rg/Using_Smilies ..

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, like I said, all religions are just different paths to the same goal I am just opposed to the concept of a “one true god.” That concept has resulted in murder, slavery, oppression of women….etc. Sure the modern teachings are that that was wrong and is was a part of a distant past. But really? How distant? A woman’s nose cut oof because she dared to express her feminity? A young girl getting shot in the head for encouraging education for women? I’m talking about orthodox religion, not genuine sprituality. How many have we killed in the name of “democracy?’ Specifiacally Christian democracy of Islamist theocracy? It wasn’t secularits that flew planes into buildings, murderind thousands. I think religion is an infection on the breadth of humanity. We kill in response to religios violence. They kill in response to our response. Where does it all end?

  • AdLib : Murph – Yep, those who can be whipped up into fear or anger are easily turned into pawns. The Kochs and Co. preyed on the racial insecurities of white, rural people, offered them a magic wand that would return them to better times and white dominance (remember their main motto at the outset, “We need to take our country back!” From who? The President who the majority of Americans voted for? Yes, the black man and his people). And of course they were used, they were selfish and looking to serve their selfishness and that is what con men prey on. Three Card Monte, Nigerian Prince emails, you name it, the slefish are seen as suckers by con men like the Kochs and such hubris is often the cause of one’s downfall. The Tea Partiers who wanted the 1950s back and couldn’t care less about the many Americans who would suffer, have ironically found themselves enduring the same suffering. That said, I hope that it snaps them out of their selfishness and insecurity and they recognize that we’re all in this together and have to look out for each other, especially the most vulnerable and in need.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally: :>} I have yet to figureout how to do emoticons here.

  • SallyT : :)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…like I said…

  • SallyT : Murph, do I need to remind you of the man in the grass with a bullet up his ass?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- You are smoking tonight!

  • SallyT : KT, as they say, it is better to be pissed off than pissed on.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT and Ad Lib… I wonder if the reason that the new RC Pope Francis is so appealing boils down to these words: “Who am I to judge.” It captures the ambiguity and ambivalence that faith invites.

  • AdLib : KT – I completely understand your feelings when it comes to organized religion and we’re in agreement on many points. It is hard to argue against the hatred, prejudice and bloodshed caused by one religion insisting that it is the one true religion. I have also found that some people who are religious do take the best from it and are very loving and generous people in their lives. So it’s not an absolute and since it’s not, I can’t view being part of a religion as a bad thing inherently. On the other hand, those who are the loudest and most visible, the extremists, exist in every religion and can represent the majority in some cases. They can cause a lot of terrible things to happen. The last thing I’d want is anyone generalizing about me because I fit into a group that has contemptible people in it (I’m a Dem but Weiner and Filner don’t represent me). So, I wouldn’t be able to generalize about people of any religion for the same reason. There are good people everywhere and bad people everywhere, a majority may be better or worse. The bad ones should be called out and if they use their religion to do cruel things, that has to be called out, indeed.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…at its heart what I think is going on is that white folk, many lower middle and lower class see the nation changing in ways that they detest and the Tea Party gave them a name for their pain. Obama and the Liberal Dems. AND that Tea Party was a creation of those with the wealth and power to craft effective propaganda that would make Goebbels proud. So, they were used – set up as canon fodder…and abandoned when they no longer served (refer to the conferences canceled when the money disappeared).

  • KillgoreTrout : I have varying degrees of pissed off. None of which I care to experience, but I am a human being and not superhuman. The years have taught me how to apply my anger ina positive direction. My years have also taught me to be wary of any strong emotion that might preclude rational thought.

  • SallyT : There is an article that I would really like to write but it has nothing to do with today’s politics but that of Jefferson’s day.

  • SallyT : I know, Kalima has caught it too.

  • SallyT : Murph, I usually get my opinion out to you with my comment on the cartoons that pee me off. See, KT, you have to look to see me peed off.

  • AdLib : No worries Sally, with all the great work you put into them, that’s nothing at all for me or Kalima to do.

  • AdLib : Slly – I LOVE the idea of a year in review of the Funnies, it would offer a great perspective on the year and how things have changed during it. You have my vote for that!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…I do not want to add one minute to what you are already doing….not one…it is so, so much. If this project were to interest you maybe you take a week off to do it…IF it were to interest you. But, I think your insight in this matter is brilliant.

  • AdLib : Murph – There are the surface excuses for anger and the less flattering real reasons. Why are these folks so angry? What has Obama and Dems done to them? I just find it very hard to believe that these folks are all so angry over the interpretation of a document. Let’s face it, they bought into the racist demonizing of Obama as a socialist/commun ist/anti-America n/Constitution-h ating/”other”. This all stems from racial feelings that at the very least allowed them to be susceptible to believing the propaganda that Obama was an enemy of America.

  • SallyT : You do the brainstorming for me Murph. It takes a good three hours a day to get them all together and a half a day on Saturday to get them ready for review to AdLib. And, Hell, I still forget the dates at time, don’t I Adlib!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, yes I do and I think you know I love you too. How could i not? I do look forward to meeting you someday in the near future. I’ve told my daughter about our conversations, she also lives in Portland.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- a year end, best of, would be great…Still, I wonder if there might be something really unique about pursuing the transformation of a point of view as illustrated by their illustrations- with commentary tracking the change…just brainstorming.

  • AdLib : Sally – Oil production in the US is at a record high, unemployment is down, the ACA is helping many and premiums are dropping wile increases in costs are shrinking, the economy is booming, the deficit is shrinking and real estate prices are growing strongly…IOW, Obama is destroying our country.

  • SallyT : KT, you know I love you.

  • KillgoreTrout : Very true Ad. I’m sure you’ve noticed from many of my prior comments on the Planet, that I have a real concern about the nature of spirituality. I am not an activist atheist. I belive that the many religions are pathways to the same goal. It really bothers me when I see human beings being so antitheticle to genuine spirituality. Spirituality that doesn’t require membership in any orthodox religion. This all ties in with the actions people take. The vile proclamations, the hatred, the bigotry and the foolish belif in “one true god.” I get pissed. I try not to, but I do.

  • SallyT : Murph, I have been thinking about doing a year in review at the end of the year. What do you think?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- there I agree with you but so much their anger is fed not by Randian philosphy but the mythology of the Founding and the Framing.

  • AdLib : Sally – I noticed many cartoons last week about the Repubs causing the train wreck. With Cruz’s threat to blow up our economy and shut down government if Obamacare isn’t stopped, it’s pretty blatant now.

  • SallyT : Shit! Mouth! not Month!

  • AdLib : Murph – But people get drawn into a movement that is based on anger because they too harbor anger. And I can’t let them off the hook for being that ignorant, the name “Tea Party” is all about slashing taxes and government spending. They know that’s what the movement was all about.

  • SallyT : Oh, any they are on Obama spending, too, this week. That is because the deficit is down and they don’t what their month breathers to start breathing through their noses. They have to convince them that Obama is still spendingl

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- I wonder if you might give some thought to doing a little piece on your observations re. the movement in cartoon logic as issues develop.

  • AdLib : KT – As Murph is explaining about the Tea Partiers he met with, there is such a lack of empathy that these people have and it is their downfall when they become one of those they are angry at. Sure, they want taxes slashed and they want the IRS demolished but when there is no Medicare for them when they retire, what will they say? When their house burns down because there’s no fire department, will they still be glad they don’t pay much in taxes? Such selfishness is self-destructive , it always turns back on the many and only enhances the few. Taxes is a kind of socialism, all of us helping each other and opposing that is the height in selfishness and blindness to the probability that one day, they too will find themselves vulnerable or in need.

  • KillgoreTrout : Absolutely. Taxes are a big part of the social contract.

  • SallyT : I have noticed, AdLib, that I am not seeing that many complaining on the cost right now. Most are still on the “train wreck” but many this week are making fun of the Repubs trying to make the train wreck themselves because it isn’t unless they have removed the tracks.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT: Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I always enjoy your rebuttals to “Chuck.” He is a true moron.

  • AdLib : Sally – We’ll be able to look back at The Sunday Funnies several years from now, when the ACA is seen as vital as SS and Medicare and see how dishonest and vicious the Repubs were in this era. Death panels? Really?

  • SallyT : Yeah, Murph, and I think it was my attacking on Chuck Assay, cartoonist, that made him retire. LOL (Like he knows who the hell I am!)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Most who “join” the TP do so as part of a crowd and it is the visceral messages and images that draw them in. Just “ordinary folks with common sense real traditional American solutions that the Liberals in DC refuse to use.” Then you sprinkle in Obama Derangement Syndrome- black, an attorney, smooth and likable with a lot of lies and you get an explosive mix.

  • KillgoreTrout : I hate to see people whine about taxes when they are paying the same tax rates they did 3 decades ago. They all whine and say Obama is screwing them out of their tax dollars and anybody who needs help is a moocher. I just cannot abide that sort of anti-spiritualit y. And these fucks call themselves Christians, almost to a man/woman. It thoroughly angers me. They don’t acknowledge that paying taxes is one of the real ways to express PATRIOTISM. It’s more than simple lip service. This is one reason I have such a hatred for these morons.

  • SallyT : Dud, I meant thing isnstead of think!

  • SallyT : Another think that I find interesting is how the foreign cartoonist are dealing with many of the same issues as us in their own countries. Have you noticed that?

  • AdLib : Murph – Or are you saying they had no idea what the Tea Party’s agenda was? Either way, I have to say, they appear to have been acting in anger and manipulated by the GOP through it.

  • SallyT : There are several making fun of the 40 times voting on it this week.

  • SallyT : Yes, Murph, and especially on Obamacare. Of course there are those that never change but I have seen others that have. Now, cartoonist are in for the money, so, they do draw on the side that is getting the most attention at times. And, when that changes, so do they.

  • AdLib : Murph – I am completely behind what you’re doing, it’s very positive and beneficial. Just saying, why did they join the Tea Party if they didn’t agree with their philosophy?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- have you actually seen development among some of the illustrators? Now that would be an interesting study.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, kudos to you Murph. That’s NOT an easy thing to do. I truly value intellect over emotion, but there are limits, if there weren’t we would be god like.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I know that the core of the movement is about Randian principals but when those principals reach back and bite those professing them (without really having the theory and its sources down) it is a moment when enlightenment is possible. “I am being screwed by the very screw driver I though I was using to fix the Machine.”

  • SallyT : Night glenn. You have a great week end!!

  • glenn : Murph–keep enduring!

  • AdLib : Night glenn, have a great weekend! See you around The Planet!

  • SallyT : Also, it is interesting to see the cartoonist change their minds as time goes on. Many start seeing it from a different direction with time. That is good to see.

  • AdLib : Murph – But those who have been swept into the Tea Party movement are in fact supporting the Randian philosophy, that IS what The Tea Party is all about. Why else be a member if you don’t want to slash government spending, slash taxes and slash the safety nets so that it’s “personal responsibility” for everyone? I don’t understand that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- good night…and I have written about the Articles of Confederation a number of times at HP and I usually get pounced upon by those who regard my version as right out of Das Kapital….but I shall endure.

  • SallyT : That is it exactly, AdLib! When the news is good, they really do their best to tell you it isn’t. That makes me laugh all the more at their stupidity. You can tell by the cartoons when we are making them run scared at times.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, many of them are making fun and condemning Obama. This is also apparent in the drawings.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- yeah I am calms but I am surrounded by sharks and its is important not to flinch…so I don’t….still, I get your visceral reaction, I have it as well, just shove it down.

  • glenn : Well, folks, it’s time for me to give up for tonight. Thank you all once again for informing, entertaining me, and making me laugh. KT–what’s the music theme this week? And, of course, Sally, I’ll see you on Sunday. Murph, I know you visit HP occasionally–ho w about a little “essay” over there on why we have a central government as opposed to the Articles of Confederation? Surely there’s an article soon to be posted that would fit that. Anyway, good night all.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally I truly know my limits.

  • AdLib : Sally – Doublespeak is the only free speech the Repubs exercise. Everything is backwards in Repub World. I’ve often compared them to Bizarro World from Superman but at this point, it’s an insult to Bizarro Superman.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad..stepped away for a bit…Yes the inner core of the TP “thinkers” (or what passes for thinkers) is Randian but the front liners (like at tonight’s meeting) are far more anchored in their own very real world…and that world is not working as they expected it too…SO this is not the problem….I think it may be the solution…

  • SallyT : KT, sometimes the art work is in sarcasm, too. They really are making fun of the right.

  • KillgoreTrout : I hear ya glenn, I really do.

  • SallyT : And, the economy is something they are hitting on a lot, too, along with JOBS this week. JOBS! We haven’t seen anything on that for awhile. But, when the employment improves, they try to tell us that it isn’t.

  • KillgoreTrout : Disregard the last comment. I know Sally, I usually pass them by at first glance. The artwork usually says it all, as it is supposed to do. I just can’t suffer fools. Again. I am not putting down what you do. Every Sunday I look. It’s just that the RW attitudes almost never change. You comment on those yourself.

  • AdLib : glenn – Right, let’s not forget the thoroughly disproven IRS scandal! Throw a little gasoline on it, drop a match and complain that where there’s arson, there must be smoke.

  • glenn : Ad–And Issa hasn’t given up on the IRS “scandal” either.

  • SallyT : Yes, AdLib, all the old rumors are there again this week.

  • AdLib : SO Sally, guess we’ve got a lot of Benghazi and Fast and Furious cartoons in our future?

  • SallyT : Well, KT, maybe you should do them.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not really Sally. I usually I know where pass them by at first glance.

  • glenn : KT–I’m with you about how calm Murph seems to be when engaging with the “enemy”. After hearing the same old arguments over and over again, I just want to “bitch slap” someone.

  • SallyT : You will notice, too, guys that when the right doesn’t have anything new to beat up the left about, they go back to the old stuff and start drawing cartoons on that again.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I have to say, you are more serene in your engagements than I could ever be. I try to allways place intellect above emotion, but sometimes the stupidity and bigotry that I encounter is too much for me to remain without strong emotion. I just get so worn down by idot know nothings that I want to slap somebody!

  • glenn : Sally–So you are adopting the r/tp slogan now? “I suffer, you suffer?”

  • AdLib : Murph – Here’s the problem, Tea Partiers base their beliefs on an Ayn Randian philosophy, screw the poor and needy. That sounds great when you’re angry at other races who are typically poorer and not one of the poor yourself but as soon as you fall into poverty, you look around and wonder why you can’t get any help. They do reap the selfishness they have sewn but to compassionate people, that should be beside the point now and it is. I hope the ACA helps this couple out because as they’ve discovered, the Republicans they’ve elected will never care about them when they are in need.

  • glenn : Murph and Sally–It makes me sing with glee that I don’t have to see grover’s mug anymore! I believe we are seeing more and more of the r/tp’s “myths” beginning to topple. I sure hope, as we were discussing earlier, that it translates into Dem votes in 2014. Or, at least, that the disillusioned t/p’s stay home.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally: “I suffer! You suffer!” FOTFLMAO!!!!!! Wonderful

  • SallyT : Look KT, I have to look at all those damn right wing cartoons because I don’t always know they are right before I have left. Since I have to look, so do you! Got that! I suffer, you suffer!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- True dat!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- Grover is losing allies on every side. He can’t even get his Wall Street buds to scream about the dangerous deficit…pollin g shows that the majority no longer regard the deficit as a signifcant concern…amazin g.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well Murph, I can see that. I just don’t engage the enemy as you do, face to face.

  • SallyT : Yes, glenn, Grove has been absent from the cartoons for some time now.

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend Sue.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- since they are done by right wing “pundits” I find that they say a lot about how they think and that puts arrows in my quiver.

  • glenn : Sally, please let me add my thanks and admiration for your work on the Sunday Funnies. As Murph says, we should “know our enemy”, but damn, I don’t know how you sift through them! And, hey, isn’t it great that the grover has been silent for so long? Guess his time in the spotlight has gone! Thank goodness!

  • KillgoreTrout : I can see that Sally. You take time and effort to bring these toons to us. It is not without appreciation.

  • AdLib : Night Sue! Hope you enjoy the book!

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, but they’re never really revealing. That’s what I don’t like about them. Same old bullshit.

  • SallyT : I know, KT, but I do feel it is information to see how they are seeing somethings. I don’t post the really terrible ones. And, there are many.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT/Sally I regard the right wing cartoons as a window into their souls….know the enemy…

  • glenn : Murph–One one hand, I do feel sorry for people who have boxed themselves into such a corner and have no way to get out. On the other hand, I hope they see that the way to get out of the corner is to reach out a hand to their fellow citizens.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I love what you do, but the RW cartoons are just really not funny, and rarely make any logical sense. I almost always agree with your faves.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- I salute your research skills

  • SallyT : AdLib, I have done all that. I just don’t know what is going on. It just might be time for a new computer.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I think their efforts (standing in a circle staring at each other with hands full of facts from the hysterical right) have become so muddled that they have hit bottom. I am told the group has been as large as 40 and that this is the remnant. Maybe it is a new start for them.

  • glenn : Good night Sue. Have a great weekend.

  • SallyT : Murph, on the foreign cartoons, I find the english version and use those. Sometimes there aren’t any english versions so I have to skip those.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, i never knwe what that meant. Water for Chocolate? I guess it would help if I saw the movie.

  • AdLib : Sally – Try clearing your cache and cookies then restart your browser. You might also want to see if you can remove any processes (software) that is running in your startup. Hope some of that helps!

  • glenn : Murph–I really do not wish ill on anyone, and I feel for your neighbor. But if they were looking for a way to blame this on the Dems and President Obama, instead of looking for honest answers, I feel sorry for them. I think as more and more t/partiers and repubs are faced with these same kinds of situations, the republican/tpart y may just yet meet its “waterloo”.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- my great pleasure and truly the least I can do….your effort is herculean. I so love editorial cartoons that I am an eager audience.

  • SallyT : See you later Sherlock!

  • SueInCa : Yes, Dominican Republic under Raul Trujillo

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, climate of blood?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue-+- have no idea what you are wandering off to look at but knowing you it is important and valuable.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks glenn. I wasn’t sure if I was the only one who found it amusing!

  • SallyT : Murph, I really appreciate your comments. Since only a very few comment, I sometimes feel like it is going unnoticed. But, I am glad you are finding it something that you share and appreciate. That means a lot!!

  • SueInCa : LIke Water for Chocolate was understandable

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- even deeper is that to give the help they would have to admit that the system that they have created and back is broken.

  • SueInCa : Well people it is time for me to go. I just got Tropico de Sangre about the Mirabal sisters in Spanish. I am going to try to see if I can understand it.

  • AdLib : Murph – This does prove though that Repubs who only get their news from Fox and other RW sources are so poorly informed about what’s going on in their country and how things work. Bringing back the equal time rule could be a real magic bullet.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- what helped tonight is that most of the group know the story and they have been struggling to find a way to blame the Dems and Obama…..I have a feeling I was pulled in to deliver a stunning blow…it was interesting.

  • glenn : KT–I thought your joke was very funny and witty, too!

  • KillgoreTrout : Ah, thanks Sue.

  • SueInCa : No I got that part KT and it was funny

  • glenn : Murph–Of course the local gop politicos will not take your neighbor’s calls. He needs help–the gop is not in government to help people.

  • SallyT : KT, I have Norton thru Comcast and it does a scan nightly. I don’t know if I have down loaded a bug or something. That is why I need Comcast to do that background thing I pay for but never have had them do.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue my joke about FOX vieweres was a play on the word “rape ier.” I know, it’s probably not that funny.

  • SueInCa : Not surprising Murph. Poor guy hope he has seen the light

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…wonderfu l. Just wanted to be sure you saw how very much your contribution is appreciated and how it is flowing out like a river to others.

  • SueInCa : Ah KT that I heard in my spicy romantic book reading days

  • SallyT : Murph, I did check out the link you gave tonight.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I just have Microsoft Security, and it’s free of charge. You have to do a scan now and then. I recommend once a week.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn and Sue….I would never have gone if it weren’t for my underwater neighbor. His wife was dropped by their insurer three years ago and they have been fighting to get her reinstated ever since. The attorney who specializes in medical insurance issues says that the case is a model for why ACA is a necessity. The medical bills have been bleeding him ever since – she has had no treatment in six months (but now the other attorney has her set up with the Mercy system to get her care restored). The bank wants to foreclose on his property and the local GOP politicos will not take his calls.

  • SueInCa : But they too will die Ad, nothing can stop the march of time on their lives. And I am comforted to know they will meet that fate sooner or later. Their father died at an early age.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, yeah, it was a weapon and a sort of adornment amongst the noble class.

  • glenn : Ad–Okay–that’ s a lot of money, and I guess they would pay a lot of it in taxes, but jesuschrist, what are they going to do with it? Do they have children to leave it to?

  • SallyT : I don’t know KT. I might be forced to. I need to get with Comcast. I pay for a service from them to go in and clean out anything that is behind and hidden in my system. I have Norton but for some reason it has gotten really bad today. I just logged off and came back, so, we will see.

  • SueInCa : Mentioning that Sally, Adlib would a problem with Microsoft OS lead to your computer not booting up in the morning

  • AdLib : glenn – The Kochs are worth over $50 billion and their wealth grew 40% in 2011 «link» , I can only imagine how much they’re making now when profits are up even more. So looking at those kinds of figures, they are definitely saving a ton of money having Repubs stop tax increases on them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- did you see the ones from the 21st….I am interested in your reaction. I LOVE what you are doing and am passing it on.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, are you bidding us adieu?

  • SueInCa : You know KT I have heard it before but never looked it up.

  • SallyT : Murph, I am sorry but my computer keeps crashing tonight. I don’t know why. Anyway, I will keep checking the funnies for your comments. I really appreciate them.

  • SueInCa : Thank god for you then Murph. You are fighting the good fight. I would want to slap them all

  • glenn : Murph–So glad to hear you’re piercing their bubble and breaking up their circle of inanity. It does go to show that “all politics is local” if you were able to pierce their bubble because you are one of their neighbors. Although there were only nine people, if each of those nine people tells nine others, etc., etc., perhaps we can break the bubble permanently. Once again, good on ya!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, it’s not really a modern word. I love old language.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- I think those folks are a class act. I have joined them in their effort to launch in 50 state capitals. I will drive to ours for the opening night. I really hate the Koches (maybe as much as righties hate Soros)

  • SueInCa : Oh never mind I got it. Now I know what rapier means too. It is not often I don’;t know the meaning of a word, weird that…..

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, it is a knife, or a dagger, known to be sharp. As in sharp witted.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I think the key is that they have been BURNED. I asked if any of them had children on their health insurance to 26 now. Three raised their hands. I said that if the GOP blocks ACA that is gone! And then I went through some of the other immediate effects of a Canceled Obamacare….MOR E SURPRISED LOOKS….these folks really are suckers.

  • SueInCa : ok KT what is rapier?

  • glenn : Ad–Seriously? Has there been any research done on the amount of taxes the Kochs would have paid as opposed to the millions of dollars they donated to campaigns? After all, romney skates by with a 13% rate. Can’t the kochs take all of the loopholes available? Did Warren Buffett say that he paid a lower rate than his secretary?

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, FOX news viewers think a rapier like wit, is an allusion to sex crimes! ;)

  • SueInCa : I thought it was very cool that they personally thanked me for my donations Murph, not many groups do that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- their info comes from very small tight circles that warn them not to trust anyone else’s info….like biblical fundamentalists warning people not to look at the literature on biblical interpretation.. …and then they stand in a circle and just talk to each other

  • AdLib : Murph – That sounds like a very enjoyable evening actually and the Tea Partiers you visited sound far more reasonable than the ones we typically hear about so props to them.

  • SueInCa : FOX NEWs glenn

  • KillgoreTrout : I’m talking more about RWers than progressives. Progressives ask what if. Republicans say don’t let progress happen.

  • SueInCa : I found them on FB Murph and I read their daily updates

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- And now the Kochs want a media empire…

  • glenn : Murph–with all the information that is “out there”, where are these people getting their information from that they didn’t know these things?

  • SueInCa : Me either KT

  • AdLib : glenn – Actually, it’s much less for the Kochs to buy elections than pay taxes. And when they buy elections that get the politicians they own to lower taxes even further or add loopholes, it’s a bonanza.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- shoulda known you would be ahead of me on the Kochs

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- happy to help- yes, the theme is there is it not.

  • KillgoreTrout : I cannot abide by any of those who think their personal experience is the end all and be all of reality.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, Sue and Ad…the group tonight surprised me. The Farm Bill was the intro…ACA was the followup….then we talked about Obama as “foreigner”. I asked if anyone doubted that his mom was a u.s. citizen– no one did. So then I hauled out the standards for citizenship…On e parent is all it takes (and then I told them that Cruz was born in Canada!)

  • SueInCa : Yes Murph I get Kickstarter info and have supported them to be able to get that film out

  • glenn : Murph–That’s what I thought–but I knew you could put it succinctly and accurately. So, IOW, “internal rebellions, power resting in the states leading to chaos”–it all sounds so familiar, doesn’t it? And, I’m not talking about the history books!

  • SueInCa : glenn those koch boys grew up sitting at the dinner table of a john bircher and I just finished reading the first hand account of someone who did the same. It messed with their minds completely and on her part, she walked away. They did not. For her racism was the breaking point

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue…do you know about Kickstarter…th e on line platform to support independent film efforts. «link» I am giving to this – NPR canceled its support under pressure by the Kochs

  • AdLib : Right Sue, thanks for reminding me!

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s cool, we should take progress wherever we can but as I mentioned below, they need to really put these pieces together, supporting Repubs and the policies Repubs push that harm them.

  • SueInCa : Murph that is where their lack of real understanding about history will be the end of us all. The same thing about money and why it was standardized.

  • glenn : Ad and Sue–Yet, if the Kochs and all those wealthy people who have donated millions to campaigns to not pay taxes had just paid their taxes, they probably would have paid less. I know, I know, logic is not their strong suit–just greed. But one would think that even they would have figured out that they could keep more of their money by paying taxes than by donating millions to campaigns to not pay taxes.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- at the TP meeting tonight we also looked at ACA and again, the crowd was in shock…esp. re. the Mo. legislature turn down of medicaid expansion.

  • SueInCa : Need a new bill Ad

  • SueInCa : Wait until their medicare is gone…..

  • AdLib : Sue – Hey, work comes first. Glad business is hopping!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- the Articles of Confederation, the Founders’ first effort was a complete failure. From 1776 through 1789….resting power in the states led to chaos and everyone who was anyone from the Revolutionary days was in dread that the British would be able to retake a good chunk of the colonies at will. Further there were internal rebellions, refusal to cooperate with the mails, trade rivalries….a mess…BUT the TP folks have been sold on a mythology that turns all of that on its head.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, I watch them on the Comedy Central websites.

  • SueInCa : And that is what the Kochs have taught them

  • AdLib : glenn – The RW reasoning on destroying government is actually pretty simple. Since taxes are needed to pay for government, strangling government means taxes can be slashed. Also, without government having the resources to protect the majority, the wealthy can dominate the majority with government weakened. That’s about it, greed for money and power, pretty simple.

  • SueInCa : I do watch them too KT

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, at least the Daily Show and the Colbert Report don’t claim to be legitmate news programs, although they are ofet more truthful than any of the other so-called news outlets.

  • glenn : Murph–good on ya! Keep on educating your neighbors. They must respect you to ask you to speak.

  • SueInCa : I have to go back and read it Ad, been meaning to get there all day but I got some new wire in and I have been wire wrapping jewelry lol

  • glenn : Murph, AdLib, or anyone–I truly don’t understand the r/tp’s obsession with destroying the federal government. I’m asking you, Murph, because I know you’re an historian. Wasn’t the reason we have a federal government was that the loosely-bound states were having difficulty governing and wanted a stronger central government? What were the issues for calling for a stronger central government? Why didn’t the leaders of that time think that “states rights” over federal was not the way to go?

  • SueInCa : I agree, I do watch Moyers, Democracy Now but even them on Snowden has been beyond the pale. BUT I must say they gave Bush the same treatment about warrantless wiretapping and the Patriot Act

  • AdLib : Sue – That’s part of the reason I wrote that post today about 10 headlines you could see every day, “Tea Partier Says Outrageous Hateful Thing!” could be just left on every site and newspaper year round and there would always be a story to fit it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL- the meeting had 9 people at it. Apparently I was the featured guest- yep even folks in rural Missouri know how to use social media. I was the “prog” guest of my neighbor (who I have helped get two lawyers for) and this guy is really respected. We had a very good discussion. ALL of these people wanted me to walked through the Farm Bill. I brought my computer and we followed the legislative trail….they were shocked at who blocked it and why.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well done Sue. I refuse to watch any purported news source that actively engages in “entertainment. ” This is something Walter Cronkite warned us about many years ago. News and entertainment do not belong together.

  • SueInCa : If you look at the John Birch Society platform, IT IS teabillies

  • AdLib : Murph – The sad thing is that many of these tea partiers are mentally disconnected from their hating on government and supporting Repubs defunding government and how they are being harmed by that. Sounds like some are beginning to put the pieces together and Ted Cruz knows that after Obamacare is fully in place, they will see this even more.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think it’s interest what McCain had to say about Tea Party members like Rand Paul and Marco Rubio…. et al. He didn’t outright call them trouble makers for the future of the GOP, but he sure did intimate it.

  • glenn : Murph–so were you at the Roby meeting? Or was your meeting different? Did you get to talk to your neighbor?

  • SueInCa : After I wrote that 24 hours of news piece I realized how futile it was to watch anymore KT and then it took me another few months to completely wean myself off and now I am happy

  • SueInCa : A psychologist friend of mine explained that exact thing to me yesterday Ad

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, I gave up cable almost two years ago, and haven’t regretted it yet.

  • SueInCa : Murph that is why I have stopped watching cable news, I am sick of teabillies like that.

  • AdLib : You can really chalk up so much of the racist hatred to the insecurity of these white men. Also, any mystery that they need big guns? People who feel inferior often hate and their hatred truly makes them de facto inferior to most Americans.

  • glenn : Murph–I was very proud of John McCain (and that was the last time, believe me) during the 2008 election when he put down that woman who was trying to say Obama was a Muslim, and all that. McCain just shut her down, and said he didn’t agree with Obama’s policies, but that Obama was a decent man, and not at all like that woman was trying to describe him. Why do tpartiers think they have to lie to win? Never mind, I know the answer to that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : The point about the description and the link is that I, yep me, got invited to a meeting of a small local tea party group that has members who are not at all happy with the direction they have been going- one of them is a neighbor whose wife’s illness is driving him into bankruptcy, losing a family farm, founded in 1900….he is angry with the GOP, the banks, the Congress etc. AND he has gotten a bunch of others ticked off…SO I went…

  • KillgoreTrout : I’ve been to Monticello. I have seen the slave quarters. Not much better than horse stables.

  • SueInCa : Alabama nuf said, she looks like a teabilly too.

  • AdLib : Murph – Saw it on MSNBC a couple times today. What about the guy who said it, big, fat, high pitch voiced man, wonder why he would feel intimidated by the thin, manly black President?

  • SueInCa : Politics Nation? Ok got it, she is another dumbass teabilly who is pushing the hate.

  • glenn : G’night kes–great chatting with you. Sleep well and keep on that path to wellness.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Try again «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Sleep well kes, and keep on that road to recovery. You are a valued person here.

  • SueInCa : The link did not work Murph

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes-+– I hardly got to say howdy!

  • SueInCa : Night Kes, sleep well

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….here is the Roby video…«link» ww.nbcnews.com/i d/45755884/vp/52 658101/#52658101

  • AdLib : Night Kes, get some rest and feel good!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, it is absolutely side splitting. I’m sure it’s on youtube by now.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, no doubt Ad. I wonder what Sally Hemmings would think of Bachmann’s version?

  • AdLib : Can you imagine the history books of the future trying to describe today’s Republicans without using the phrase “dumb as a bag of hammers” repeatedly?

  • kesmarn : Well, kids, on that note of comedy, I’ll have to bid y’all good night. Have a great weekend everyone!

  • SueInCa : I am going to have to look that one up too KT

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Rep. Martha Roby (R-Ala.) town hall….have you all heard of this…At a town hall forum in her district on Monday that was sponsored by a local tea party group, Roby was asked by an attendee what she would do to counter the supposed abuses of President Barack Obama, whom the man described as ineligible for office, a communist, and a tyrant. Here’s how the fellow put it: “What I need from you is to know what you can do, you and your fellow non-communist colleagues in the lower House, what you can do to stop these communist tyrannical executive orders laid down by this foreign-born, America-hating communist despot?” ….After the room erupted in laughter and supportive applause, Roby responded with a smile: “Thank you for your question—he said it loud enough that you all heard it.” Roby did not push back on the questioner’s claims. Instead, she validated his fears. “Look I can’t emphasize the oversight part of my job enough,” she said. “And I think that that gets lost in what we do every day, because that’s exactly what we’re doing—we’re chasing down these executive orders, we’re chasing down these rules that are promulgated, that are backdoor legislation, whether it’s the EPA, the IRS, go down the list.”

  • KillgoreTrout : Yep, that’s the one. He was trying to keep ringing a bell, riding the “horse,” and trying to load his musket, all at the same time. I had tears in my eyes because I was laughing so hard.

  • kesmarn : :lol: Forgot about that one!

  • AdLib : KT – I think Bachmann’s history lesson about how the Founders eliminated slavery…then somehow there was a civil war over it decades later, is entertaining.

  • kesmarn : Was that the one where Colbert used the mechanical kiddie horse, KT? Too funny.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh kes, it really would. Did you see Colbert trying to act out Palin’s version of Paul Revere’s famous ride? It was absolutely laugh out loud stuff.

  • AdLib : glenn – Bachmann is having to quit her House office because of all the criminal activity involved with her last run for office, she and her associates are in huge legal trouble. So, even though for Repubs that might be a plus, I think she’s seen as a hasbeen now and wouldn’t have even a shred of a chance.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad I agree, I think Oliver (how British can you get) is doing a great job. Two different people can’t be expected to be the same. Oliver surely holds his end.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally: it’s at «link» Look for this every week from here on in. BUT, it will be late as always am. The one for the 28th is almost done.

  • kesmarn : KT, I’d love to see the two of them together discussing American history. It would be side-splitting.

  • glenn : KT–to paraphrase my late husband–“say something even if it’s wrong” completely describes palin and bachmann.

  • AdLib : glenn – Always liked John Oliver and he’s doing a very good job filling in for Stewart but the show definitely has a sharper edge and even funnier performance with Stewart. Stewart just fits the role so perfectly, he’s hard for anyone to beat but Oliver is doing great.

  • KillgoreTrout : The funniest things about Bachmann and Palin is their version of American history. Paul Revere warning the “British,” about the 2nd amendment, over a decade BEFORE it was written? Priceless.

  • SallyT : Oh, Murph, I am sorry I missed it. I will go back and read it. I love to get comments on there.

  • glenn : Kes–bachmann is a long shot, for sure. But I wouldn’t put it past the pubs to nominate her just because she’s a woman.

  • kesmarn : Maybe Marcus could be Michelle’s campaign surrogate. He might enjoy wearing her wardrobe.

  • glenn : Ad–can’t tell which john (or jon) I like more. John Oliver is growing on me–he does have a bit too much “slapstick” humor for me, though.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally-+– it is long, long, long, and is from the week before last.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, yes, I think that Rush’s decline is a barometer for the GOP’s future. People are getting sick of all hate-speech, no action.

  • AdLib : Kes – Well, Michele Bachmann would have to campaign from a prison cell in 2016 so I say she won’t run.

  • SueInCa : I will glenn. No Ad I never thought rush would go down, shows the power of a real boycott

  • SallyT : No Murph, I didn’t see your message. Was it on week before lasts?

  • AdLib : glenn – Saw the John Oliver bit, very funny stuff!

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s really a soft form of violence.

  • AdLib : Kes – Did you ever think the day would come when Rush would be declining big time? Doesn’t that presage the decline in popularity of the rest of the GOP?

  • SueInCa : Personally I would like to see Perry go up against Hillary. Now that would be funny. Or a more militant so she can do her “I’ve been to the rodeo boys”

  • glenn : Sue–Watch it as soon as you can. He absolutely tears apart the foxnews anchors on their hyprocisy about the minimum wage. I hope I’m not blowing it for you when I tell you that one of fox’s “financial advisors” actually yelled at another commentator that making $250,000 a year is “close to poverty.” I kid you not!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- Did you ever see my messages re the Sunday funnies? I am a week behind but will actually finish last Sunday’s tomorrow in time for the next installment.

  • kesmarn : I think the prize for funniest GOP nominee would go to Michelle Bachmann. But that’s a long shot.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn I saw that today! Isn’t it remarkable that the lengths these GOP freaks try to make a minimal living as something to be desired?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, Kes, Sue, KT, Sally, Ad Lib…greetings back to y’all.

  • SueInCa : Yes I did KT, her word salad is what is so funny

  • AdLib : Hey Murph!

  • SallyT : I’m here, Murph

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, did you ever see William Shatner read Palin’s remarks as “beat poetry?” Very funny.

  • SueInCa : Sally is eating steaks Murph

  • glenn : Murph–how’s it going?

  • AdLib : Who would be the funniest Repub nom for Pres in 2016? I do think Marco Rubio would be pretty funny but Rick Perry might try again and win the comedy crown.

  • SueInCa : No glenn I have it saved

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally: Are you still here?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph!

  • glenn : Did anyone see John Oliver’s set on the minimum wage last night? It was hilarious. I hope I don’t get any “special sauce”.

  • SueInCa : Hey Murph

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s shakin Murph?

  • kesmarn : And Rush’s audiences are shrinking by the day, AdLib — along with his commercial sponsors.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Howdy….whatsup

  • SueInCa : I laugh at her in retrospect. When she is actually babbling, I just shake my head.

  • KillgoreTrout : Republicans are manna from heaven for comics.

  • glenn : Sue–I don’t think sarah palin is funny. But then, again, I was taught not to laugh at stupid people, knowing they just can’t help it.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yep, Rush Limbaugh is probably the RW’s biggest comedian…in every sense of the word…and we all know how hilarious he is to those who aren’t white males that hate everyone else.

  • KillgoreTrout : Tina Fey. She really captured Palin’s accent and banality.

  • kesmarn : :lol: YES! glenn, so funny. And then the furtive “dive” for the water bottle. As if — if he moved fast enough nobody would notice.

  • SueInCa : glenn they all do that, bachman did it too. Glenn yes

  • glenn : Sue–Tina Fey?

  • SueInCa : Sarah Palin is funny as hell especially when played by whats her name

  • glenn : Kes–what got me about Rubio’s “big gulp” was his shifty eyes trying to figure out where to look.

  • SueInCa : Oily Tate is funny

  • kesmarn : And then there was Marco Rubio taking a big gulp of water from his water bottle…again, unintentional!

  • KillgoreTrout : Victoria Jackson came to fame because she played the dumb blonde, cutesie act. Found out later that she wasn’t acting.

  • AdLib : Kes – If we counted all the UNINTENTIONALLY funny Repubs, that list would be huge!

  • SueInCa : That is what I think too, in fact I almost called the emo prog on FB a Teabilly

  • glenn : Kes–you’re right. I forgot about rick perry. And basically, his audiences. I thought it so telling that when he told an audience that “smart people wouldn’t vote for the gop”, and no one got that he was calling them stupid. Now that’s funny!

  • AdLib : Sue – There really is little difference between emprog and bagger mindsets. Not surprising they act similarly on blogs.

  • kesmarn : Rush Limbaugh thinks he’s funny when he refers to the First Lady as “Moochelle,” but it’s hard to get an audience over the age of 6 for that level of “humor.”

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, wasn’t that soooo revealing? He looked like a real neanderthal while trying to remember. Sub orbital ridges and all.

  • SueInCa : Heck no and what a sad state of affairs that is Ad

  • AdLib : Sue – Well, there are well known Repub comedians and there are Repubs who think they’re funny but would Dennis Miller, Larry The Cable Guy or Victoria Jackson really make a true fan of comedy laugh out loud?

  • SueInCa : But he is the closest they have unless you count Fox News

  • kesmarn : Rick Perry trying to remember which departments he would eliminate if elected was pretty funny. But — I guess that was unplanned humor, too.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue. Larry’s humor is very low brow. Alot of bathroom humor, like fart jokes and the like.

  • SueInCa : good one glenn

  • glenn : Ad–Regan, gwb, newt, palin, and bachmann. Or, did you mean people who were intentionally trying to be comics?

  • KillgoreTrout : It certainly isn’t Dennis Miller. He sold out right after 9/11.

  • SueInCa : Larry the Cable Guy? But he is libertarian

  • AdLib : Comedians ridicule the inane, the moronic, the crazy…hard to do that as a Republican.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I cannot name one.

  • SueInCa : I agree Ad, I ran into one on FB and he got his panties in a bunch because people went after a Cenk post one night. He never debated but called all of us losers. Shaking my head at that one.

  • AdLib : KT – Name 5 great Republican comics.

  • kesmarn : Good point, KT. What amuses people is very revealing.

  • glenn : Sue–now you know that is not true about r/tp’s being cool. Who could forget romney’s memorable barking of “who let the dogs out?” How cool was that?

  • AdLib : glenn – Same here, we all learn from each other here and Vox has been a great “school” for me on so many topics!

  • kesmarn : They are genetically incapable of cool.

  • KillgoreTrout : True kes. The GOP has no understanding of subtlety or satire. What they think is funny and cool is to knock others for things beyond their control.

  • SueInCa : Kes yes coolness is not cool to them, they would not know how to be cool if you taught them for years

  • AdLib : glenn – The emoprogs are the ones who wanted Obamacare killed because it wasn’t perfect. They opposed Obama for not supporting gay marriage strongly enough or soon enough. On and on, they are just as vicious about Obama and the Dems as Baggers, they just do it behind the facade of being purist Dems. Purists are always hypocrites and extremists, never to be respected or trusted.

  • kesmarn : The Planet loves you back, glenn.

  • glenn : Ad–I agree. I’m so glad to see President Obama standing his ground.

  • SueInCa : glenn we all learn from each other and you are right, it is cool

  • KillgoreTrout : You are quite welcome glenn, and I don’t think I speak for myself only!

  • kesmarn : KT, doesn’t it seem as though the GOP has always had a problem with coolness? Kennedy, Clinton, Obama — all had/have the cool factor. Nixon, the Bushes, Rove — not so much.

  • SueInCa : Same here Ad, I am loving the new Obama

  • glenn : I know I sound like a broken record, but this is why I love Vox and the Planet so much. I always learn something, and my questions are taken seriously. Thanks to all.

  • AdLib : Sue – This is the Obama I was hoping for. The bending over backwards for bipartisanship Obama was a mistake that went on too long, I do think he learned that he will never get these assholes to work with him and that they will still accuse him of not being bipartisan no matter what he does. Now he knows, to accomplish anything in his last 4 years, he has to keep fighting and campaigning towards the public and through the 2014 elections.

  • KillgoreTrout : My pleasure glenn.

  • glenn : Sue, AdLIb, and KT–Thanks for the explantions.

  • KillgoreTrout : Speaking of Obama, did anyone see his apperance with the women’s basketball champs? He actually did they “black girl’s angry snap.” Jokingly of course, but what a great thing to see. This president is just too cool for the republican school.

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly glenn. It’s all about ideological purity.

  • AdLib : Sue – I like that idea of Obama using EOs on Voter ID but I would be happiest if the DoJ can get courts to put TX, NC, etc. back into pre-clearance.

  • glenn : Sue–I’m with you. I’m loving the new President Obama. Of course, I loved the old one, too.

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s really funny is that the ACA was based on ROMNEYCARE! A fact that Romney touted, then denied vehemently.

  • glenn : Ad–so emoprogs are kinda like the t/p’s for whom no one can be “pure” enough?

  • SueInCa : So how does everyone like the New Obama? I am loving it.

  • SueInCa : It has been for a couple years now and when the Prez started using the term, they knew they were losing

  • AdLib : glenn – “Emoprog” is a term for people who claim to be Progressive Democrats but have nothing but venom for Obama and other Dems. They express a holier-than-thou attitude, like they are the only principled Dems and all the rest deserve to be savaged for their shortcomings and “betrayals”.

  • kesmarn : I love the way the Prez has adopted the term “Obamacare” too. It will be known in that way forever now.

  • KillgoreTrout : Excellent point glenn. I think you are right on the money.

  • SueInCa : Adlib and Prez is talking Executive Orders as a possiblilty for voter id laws.

  • glenn : KT–And that’s why they have voted 40 times to repeal Obamacare. They’ve admitted over and over that once the American people “get” Obamacare, they won’t want to give it up. And…since the r/tp’s are the ones who came up with that “clever” name, the program will forever be associated with President Obama. That is their biggest fear!

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s great Sue. I love it.

  • SueInCa : KT they tried to make a big deal of Kerry opening the visas for same sex couples not realizing the SCOTUS ruling was after Hillary. I loved blowing that one up on FB

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s why they will not let this whole Benghazi thing rest.

  • glenn : Sue–thanks. IOW, they’re just as idealogical as the tp’s?–just far left as opposed to far right?

  • AdLib : Sue – I submit that the GOP is being artificially propped up. They don’t represent as big of a percentage of the population as their power in DC reflects. The gerrymandering and Voter ID is aimed to keep them overrepresented but once they fall out of power, I think they’re out for a long time. Nobody will want to return to this kind of Congress and without the unique post economic crash position they were in in 2010, they won’t be able to terrorize Americans into voting them in again.

  • kesmarn : True, KT. When you’ve got billions, even losing $100 million is no big deal. And they’re good at getting the “little people” to open up their wallets, too.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, Ill say one thing, the GOPers are scared shytless of Hillary.

  • SueInCa : Cenk is an emoprog

  • SueInCa : emotional progressive, over the top

  • glenn : Ad–can you explain to me what a emoprog is? I’m not sure I understand who they “are” and what pov they represent.

  • SueInCa : I know the woman vote would be strong and hopefully that will make the difference in 2014 and 15. I know glenn I see the same thing all the time. I read a really good write up. If I can find it, I will post it in OT about the blatant racism.

  • KillgoreTrout : Unfortunately kes, guys like the Kochs really know how to rake in the bucks. They don’t accually care about the dollar amounts, their trip is in the making of money.

  • AdLib : Sue – The emoprogs are way overrepresented on the web, they really represent such a tiny percentage of Dem voters, I think in a Hillary/Christie election, there would be such a huge women’s vote for her that the emoprogs supporting Christie would be a drop in the bucket and irrelevant.

  • kesmarn : You’d think after a while even the Kochs would start running out of money. They and their cronies sure lost big-time on the last election they tried to buy.

  • SueInCa : I agree but remember, this is the party of know nothings who will vote over and over against their best interests

  • glenn : Sue–They might be falling for Christie’s lies now, but who knows what a primary season will bring? Also, not sure how many repubs would vote for Christie. I read a comment from a “true conservative” who said he was “done with Christie” after Christie hugged President Obama. Can you imagine? Turning on a politician because he actually hugged the duly-elected (twice) President of the United States? These people have some strange criteria . So I believe that if Christie gets the nod, a lot of r/tp’s (especially tp’s) will sit the election out. That would be great for Dems!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, I think there is an ever widening divide between the hillbillies and the old guard of the GOP. I love it. A party in disarray.

  • SueInCa : I know Kes, it makes me ill. Paul though is spouting Bircher stuff be ready to out him

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, still sorry about Gandolfini’s passing. What a talent!

  • AdLib : glenn – Good point, Ryan could be the nom. I don’t think he has as strong of a base as Paul though, he would have to get ROmney and the Kochs to help him with that but they could.

  • kesmarn : It’s all that Koch money keeping them on life support,Sue.

  • SueInCa : KT it is easier to say Teabilly

  • SueInCa : That party has 9 lives though Adlib. I would love to see them crumble but dang, they keep coming back worse than before

  • SueInCa : True that KT

  • kesmarn : I think they might try to run Ryan, too. I do wish it would be somebody more like Rand Paul, though. That would make life so easy.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, what GOPTPer is known for their honesty?

  • AdLib : I think Rand Paul could win the Repub nom but maybe Christie could win it. I’m just thinking that the Baggers have had enough of going along with the Elite Repubs after McCain and Romney and they’ve got to be thinking that 2016 is their turn. I would like Paul to win, he would lose so hugely and the Repubs would lose in Congress big too, it could be a real knockout punch for the GOP.

  • SueInCa : glen what concerns me is the emoprogs that are falling for Christies lies

  • KillgoreTrout : RIP Mr. Gandolphini!

  • SueInCa : That made me laugh but you know Christie, not the paragon of truth so I checked on him

  • glenn : Ad–I don’t see Rand Paul as the nominee. Maybe they’ll try lyin’ Ryan as prez at that time? Maybe Cruz–although I think his “star” is sinking fast. Do you think Christie has a chance? Do you think they’ll try to run a woman?

  • kesmarn : Right, BFF, I think he said Jersey got $.60 for every $1. So Jersey is in effect subsidizing KY. HAHAHA!

  • SueInCa : That is funny KT. Poor Tony died though

  • KillgoreTrout : I hope crazy, racist Rand Paul get’s nominated. He’s got the name recognition the GOPers might think is worthy.

  • SueInCa : No Kes, Jersey’s numbers

  • AdLib : Kes – Days before Christie said that, an MSNBC host (can’t remember who) said Christie would never mention that KY is a taker state because it might alienate KY Repubs. Guess he liked taking the shot at Paul more.

  • KillgoreTrout : Vote for Tony Soprano, er, I mean Chris Christie!

  • kesmarn : I believe Christie’s numbers on KY too, BFF. They get $1.51 for every $1 they send to Washington.

  • glenn : KT–I know it’s passe. Just thought it would be fun to give the baggers a taste of their own rhetoric. Although, I must admit, it would be stooping to their low level.

  • KillgoreTrout : Libertarian is the key word. People using marijuana these days are from all walks of life and education levels.

  • SueInCa : Paul might win it, Sarah Palin should run lol

  • SueInCa : Kes and I checked his numbers and he was telling the truth for once. NJ gets the least of course they are tiny

  • AdLib : Okay, totally for fun, who would you guess would win the 2016 GOP nom for President? Then, who would you like to see win it?

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, really, that nonsense is so passe. Especially since Obama can’t run again.

  • kesmarn : Throwing Christie into the mix really does liven things up. I saw the video of his comments on what a black hole of neediness and pork projects the entire state of KY is. Ouch!

  • SueInCa : I am not so sure KT, it seems his libertarian friends want pot legalized, at least the ones in Silicon Valley

  • AdLib : Sue – I bet most of the pot smokers who support Rand Paul also don’t have any issue with racism.

  • SueInCa : I cannot wait to see it Adlib, it will be better than last years

  • glenn : KT–I personally would like to see Cruz as the gotp nominee. We really could have some fun with “birther” nonsense!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, I think most pot users would never vote for a guy like Rand, especially since legalization is a real possibility.

  • SueInCa : That is possible glenn he was treating my son for an allergic reaction. He ate a bunch of pomegranates from our tree one afternoon and his face blew up

  • AdLib : Sue – Yep, very funny! I wonder if Cruz is ready to turn on Rand Paul in the GOP primary like he’ll have to do to take the lead. Now THAT would be total entertainment, Paul and Cruz attacking each other? And both attacking Christie? And Hillary cruising unharmed through the Dem primary?

  • glenn : Sue–Maybe he didn’t know the English translation from Farsi?

  • SueInCa : Adlib

  • SueInCa : Don’t forget the pot heads who think he can legalize marijuana Adlbi

  • kesmarn : That sums it up, AdLib. That’s his “base.”

  • KillgoreTrout : It would be just like the GOPTP, to nominate Rand Paul. They just don’t see past their own bullshit.

  • glenn : Kes–ain’t that the truth? It didn’t sound quite so forceful when Reid said it; it was more the words coming out of Reid’s mouth, rather than the tone.

  • SallyT : That sounds good, glenn. My dad use to marinate his streaks in Royal Crown. They were ssooooo gooooood!

  • AdLib : Kes – I think it’s less time consuming to identify the types who would vote for Rand than all the ones who never would. White racist men. That about does it.

  • SueInCa : Glenn would you believe I had an Iranian doctor ask me what a pomegranate was? I was shocked

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, damn the tannins, full speed ahead!

  • glenn : Sally–okay–I really didn’t think pomegranate went with steaks. Although we used to marinate our tough ole steaks with pomegranate juice when we lived in Iran.

  • kesmarn : glenn, when mild-mannered Harry Reid says that you know he’s red-lining.

  • AdLib : Sue – Could be that one. He was reclining with Ted Cruz and others on the stage, all pandering to the loons there but Rand’s practicing his doublespeak for 2016.

  • SueInCa : I heard at the college conference that they were yelling Paul for President with Cruz sitting right there lol

  • kesmarn : And somehow I doubt that anyone who got any Hurricane Sandy assistance is going to want to vote for Rand Paul, AdLib. Another group he’s alienated.

  • glenn : Kes–I would have loved to hear what Reid said, too. I did see a video the other day where he told members of the Senate to “sit down and shut up” when the president of the Senate couldn’t gavel them to order.

  • SallyT : No, glenn, but there might be some red wine coming with them.

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s a question I ask myself everyday. Just kidding. If I don’t know who I am by now, I’m lost forever.

  • SueInCa : I agree KT just be you. Adlib was that the college conference?

  • AdLib : Did you see Rand Paul at the RW conference saying that the GOP is dying and it needs minorities and the youth…you know, the ones whose lives he’s trying to destroy with every vote he takes in the Senate?

  • kesmarn : My SIL’s dog was known to actually snatch items right from the grill when no one was looking.

  • SallyT : KT, don’t spend to much time figuring it out, just be you and it will be great!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I have to figure out what form that would be today! ;)

  • SallyT : I can assure you, Kes, that the boys are standing close to him! Those big noses are going strong!

  • glenn : Hi Sally–do your hubby’s steaks go with the pomegranate martinis Ad is serving?

  • kesmarn : Yummy, Sally! Have him throw one on the grill for me.

  • SallyT : KT, are you in great form tonight? I sure hope so!

  • SueInCa : I had the biggest crush on Davey Lopes, cannot explain it

  • glenn : KT–Beauty and the beast?

  • AdLib : Hey Sally!

  • SallyT : Kes, he is out barbecuing streaks right now.

  • AdLib : Sue – I met Davey Lopes once. And I got a Dodger hat signed by Ron Cey last year when he was an opening day guest at our little league. Those were my Dodgers back then.

  • KillgoreTrout : hey lady of the great Northwest! How are ya?

  • glenn : Ad–replace the snapping turtle with a solid, WOMAN Dem! Wouldn’t that be something?

  • SueInCa : Hey Watson how are you? :-)

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sally! How’s retirement going for hubby?

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, the turtle and the hare?

  • kesmarn : I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Reid was discussing the nuclear option, because it seems there has been a bit of a sea change since then.

  • SallyT : Good evening everyone.

  • AdLib : Sue – I am definitely supporting Alison Grimes to beat McConnell! Can you imagine the political explosion that would represent if we could replace the snapping turtle with a solid Dem?

  • SueInCa : glenn that Allison is going to be a formidable adversary and McConnell is prob going to be primaried by a Teabilly

  • KillgoreTrout : I don’t know if many of them are well informed enough to notice.

  • SueInCa : You bet it is KT

  • glenn : Sue–I see in a couple of polls, McConnell is not doing so well against Grimes. Yes, he seems to be still ahead of her, but not by much. In one poll I saw, it’s almost even! Go Allison Lundergan Grimes! And don’t forget to call your granny!

  • SueInCa : I used to tease my hubby incessantly about Davey Lopes, remember him Adlib?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue. I guess any mention of “My rowdy friends,” is now history.

  • AdLib : KT – Just anecdotal but if their fellow Repubs in Congress have finally gotten so fed up that they’re turning on the Baggers, couldn’t Repub voters do the same?

  • SueInCa : glenn it is ok, I am married and I still look

  • kesmarn : glenn, you are one red hot mama tonight! :lol:

  • SueInCa : Adlib, McConnell is at -7% and yes that is minus

  • glenn : Hi Sue–Wow! Football so soon! I actually like watching football. Love those tight ends. Oops–don’t know what’s wrong with me tonight!

  • KillgoreTrout : I hope you are right Ad. But these brainwashed know nothings never cease to surprise me.

  • kesmarn : Hey, BFF! Football? How can this be?

  • AdLib : Hey Sue! Pass the pigskin!

  • SueInCa : Are you ready for some football? Because pre-season starts this coming week everyone.

  • glenn : Ad–That Reza is one hot man! His intelligence, combined with his good looks, is a stunning combination. Of course, I’m a widow of three and a half years, so my viewpoint is a little “skewed”! And gracious, too. I loved his comment on MSNBC–loved that he didn’t sink to Green’s level in discussing her disastrous interviewing “skills”.

  • AdLib : KT – They may brag to the Baggers in their districts about their performance in Congress but when it comes to any reasoning voters, what can these Repubs say they’ve done? 7% approval? The 2014 elections may surprise a lot of pundits who don’t think the Dems can take over the House.

  • kesmarn : Doing better with each week, AdLib, although — as you doubtless know — healing never seems to go as fast as we want it to! ;-)

  • kesmarn : Right, AdLib. She had her head down, staring at the questions she’d been handed. She should look for a real job asap to save her self-respect.

  • AdLib : Kes – And you’re feeling beter?

  • AdLib : Kes – I think it was Reza who said in a later MSNBC appearance that he didn’t blame her, she was having a Fox producer yelling in her ear to ask those bigoted questions. That is exactly what it looked like. How can you live with yourself, being an African American puppet for racist and bigoted old white men to use as their voice in interviews?

  • KillgoreTrout : Seriously, 40 attempts to repeal the ACA? Forty? If that doesn’t show insanity, I don’t know what does. Even James Holmes is saying, “Hey, I’m not THAT carzy!”

  • glenn : Kes–well you know, Aslan was just trying to “show off” his “elite education”. Elite or not, we all know an education is not prized at foxsocallednews.

  • kesmarn : And yes, KT — the last week has been great up here. Cool, breezy and drier. All the crops are bumper crops this year.

  • kesmarn : I hear you, glenn. She really made a fool of herself. And Aslan was trying patiently to explain it to her — in language that a second-grader could understand.

  • glenn : Ad–from your lips to the ballot box to the HOR.

  • AdLib : glenn – That is the key and the Repubs are doing so much to rile up Dems to get them to the ballot box, I think we will do well in 2014.

  • glenn : Kes–yes that was my reference. Do you believe the audacity of Green? Asking it once MAYBE–but not letting it go–STUPIDITY–e specially after he answered the question twice.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, I can’t believe the good weather luck we are having in OHIO. Usually it’s in the 90s this time of year. I’m loving every bit of it.

  • kesmarn : You could tell she was just reading from the Roger Ailes script they handed her, KT. It was obvious she hadn’t even tried to read the book!

  • KillgoreTrout : Lauren wishes she had half of Reza Aslan’s knowledge.

  • glenn : Ad–It is really amusing to watch the other pubs beginning to call out the t/partiers on their craziness. Don’t know if it will translate to a Dem house, though. I still think the key is to get out the Dem vote in 2014–it’s the only to overcome the gerrymandering.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Homie! Yes, I’m finding that this cooler weather is much easier for me to deal with!

  • AdLib : glenn – Heh! And I wonder how a Fox host can report news when just by being a Fox employee, they are foreigners to truth?

  • kesmarn : glenn, doing better all the time. And I think you were making reference to Lauren Green’s interview with Reza Aslan, no? :lol:

  • KillgoreTrout : Homie! How goes it? All well I hope.

  • AdLib : Hey Kes! That was pretty hilarious!

  • glenn : Hey Kes–how are you?

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s pretty bad when Gramps McCain bad mouths you.

  • AdLib : KT Beefeaters work!

  • glenn : Ad–I have a question for you. How can you, as a non-republican/t partier, write about r/tp’s? :)

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, kids! Loved the vid of Cruz explaining why he loves to look at a painting of himself that hangs in his office! :lol: Got to see that thanks to Stephen Colbert and AdLib!

  • KillgoreTrout : I guess I’m a Martini traditionalist. Beefeaters baby.

  • AdLib : So do you think the TPGOP is going to implode in 2016? I think 2014 will be disappointing for them but with Cruz and Rand Paul running for President, I think it will be a real jump of the shark.

  • KillgoreTrout : Locusts would be more like the GOPTPers.

  • KillgoreTrout : I love my 83 year old mother, but have a bit of a problem with the guilt trips. ;)

  • glenn : Ad–Thanks–it’ s really good. Haven’t had pomegranate for a while now, and it’s so refreshing!

  • AdLib : KT – I don’t know that I’d compare the House Repubs to Moses, maybe locusts?

  • glenn : Ad–Hopefully by the time the grandkids get to be 18, the kids remember the services and really want to call!

  • AdLib : Coming up, glenn. Here you go!

  • glenn : Oops–enough to wear OUT this grandmother.

  • AdLib : glenn – I think that when grandkids get to be 18, grandparents should present them a list of services rendered so they never forget to call.

  • KillgoreTrout : I hear that glenn. Skating would make my legs hurt for a few days.

  • glenn : Hey Ad–pomengranate martinis sound good–can you make me a “virgin” one?

  • KillgoreTrout : Didn’t Moses spend 40 years in the desert trying to repeal Obamacare?

  • glenn : KT–Shopping, skating, and soccer–all in one day. Of course, I only did the shopping–not the skating and soccer, but it’s enough to wear this grandmother out!

  • AdLib : Hey glenn! The early bird gets the first pomegranate martinis.

  • KillgoreTrout : Que pasa glenn?

  • AdLib : Hey KT! Love them headlines!

  • glenn : Hi KT–Guess we’re the “early birds” this week.

  • glenn : Hi AdLib–Cruz is in for a bruisin’. Other than that, how are you? Just saw the article you did on the headlines before I came here to Vox. Funny stuff!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hi Ad. Greetings and hallucinatory headlines!

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “Cruz is in for a bruisin’!” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

 

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