Vox Populi – 6-1-2012

SallyT : I did AdLib and he said anytime he can help, call on him.

AdLib : Yep Sally, it’s closing time. Hope you thanked Mr. T for me! Have a wonderful weekend!

AdLib : CL – Damn, sorry to hear about that! Hope there were security cameras to tape the culprits! Great work as always, thanks again for all you do! Have a great weekend!

SallyT : AdLib, are we going home now?

AdLib : Bito – Oh, the “acid in Dem women’s” faces case. Yep, if they’re Repubs, they don’t take responsibility for their actions, that’s the way the party works. You know, the lack of jobs is all Obama’s fault?

SallyT : Goodnight CL and rest for tomorrow is your day! Your day to do more good as you always do. See you on the other side, friend.

bito : Good Night, C’Lady, sleep well

choicelady : Everyone – I also am packing it in. We had a rough day since we challenged the religious right again, and last night they tried to break into our office. Unnerving. And tomorrow I’m off to San Francisco to do another health care training – only benefit? It’s almost 30 degrees cooler there than here. Won’t mind that one bit. Hope to talk with you all next week, so in the meantime, have a grand weekend and stay well everyone!

SallyT : Schlie said it was important for the book be returned, so it can “finish its mission.” “Someone said the person who took it should read it, ponder it and then return it. That sounds right,” she said.

AdLib : Which case Bito?

bito : «link»

bito : When does a US Rep’s spokesperson become just a “regular” person? This case really disgusts me.

AdLib : CL – Yep, a DVD of “White Man’s Burden” might be what they replace it with.

choicelady : AdLib – I think you’re on to something about that book burning thing. Sally – I’d not be surprised if it was their only book. Maybe they lent it out rather than selling it? Or got people to pay to look at it? Anyway, I’m sorry it was stolen, but I’m sure they’ll find DVDs to fill the void.

AdLib : You’re fighting the good fight, Murph! It’s very appreciated!

SallyT : Well, apparently it wasn’t a big seller the first time out as there were only 5000 copies.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL, Sally and AdLib…thanks for your gracious support.

choicelady : Murph dear – sleep well, and know how much we ALL appreciate what you’re doing. It’s exhausting to be where you are. Uphill every inch of the way with no reasonable expectation you’ll succeed. But it’s the process that matters – and you ARE making a difference. We are all with you in heart and spirit and thank you for your incredibly hard work.

AdLib : Being that it was AZ, maybe they were running short of books to burn?

SallyT : Rest well, Murph, and wake up to fight again.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….if they find the stolen first edition maybe they will find those golden tablets Smith mislaid at the same time.

AdLib : Good work, good luck and good night Murph!

SallyT : Apparently, CL, and it was probably the only book they had!

MurphTheSurf3 : Well gang….calling it a night…three days of fighting demons and I am ready to sleep…sad to say I have a 9 AM meeting in a nearby town to see how we might try to get our neighbors interesting in actually learning something about the impact their choices are going to make on their lives….good luck to us. See you all around.

choicelady : Sally – but a Bay Pslam book is worth MILLIONS. Shows whose religion has REAL substance, sniff.

AdLib : CL – you know how this stuff works, get a lower down guy to flip on his boss and nail the big fish. Walker is such a tool, he may have already created volunteers.

choicelady : Sally – they have book stores in Phoenix? Who knew?

SallyT : Oh, and this is news worthy, a first edition Book of Mormon was stolen from a book store in Phoenix. Worth about $100,000.

AdLib : CL – I think we all know, Walker is going to be charged. His defense fund confirms it. Why would WI voters want to keep a guy who’s a crook and lying to them about this? In the end, I don’t know that they do.

choicelady : AdLib – another thought about Walker’s pious assurance none of his aides would be financially helped by him: talk about throwing them under the bus!!! With a boss like that, I’d sure think about turning state’s evidence. One guy already has. Walker’s goose is about to get cooked I think.

choicelady : Sally – yes, that’s true I think. There are women-directed PACs including Emily’s List: “Early Money Is Like Yeast: you RISE” is their motto. They fund ONLY progressive/libe ral women candidates. There are a couple of others, but I’ve forgotten their names.

choicelady : bito – I also added jeffersonobama to my list. HUGELY helpful!

choicelady : AdLib – that is brilliant. Either way Walker’s screwed. He’s either just admitted being under investigation or he’s doing illegal things with the money. Wow – shows how risky it is to be just an empty suit.

SallyT : CL, I just saw on Yahoo that Super Pac’s are a man’s fund. Only about 20% of women donate to one.

AdLib : From another site called Politiscoop: “Walker, in a rare moment of candor, stated to reporters that he would not use the criminal defense fund to pay for the legal defenses of his aides, who have been charged with crimes ranging from child enticement, to theft from veterans and the families of fallen soldiers, to misuse of taxpayer resources to illegally campaign for Scott Walker, and would instead use the funds for himself or his campaign. Wisconsin law is very clear: an elected official can only establish a legal defense fund if they, or their agent, are under investigation for, charged with, or convicted of violations of Wisconsin’s campaign finance and election laws. Nothing provides for an elected official creating a legal defense fund for the sole purpose of campaign compliance, assisting the prosecution or aiding an investigation, as Scott Walker claims he is doing. Since he is not paying for the defense of an agent acting on his behalf, it is now clear that Scott Walker is under investigation.” «link»

choicelady : bito – that’s very heartening. I think this IS news and will surface quickly if it’s accurate.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bito…just added @jeffersonobama to my follow list. Scanned the work…interesti ng take on polling.

choicelady : AdLib – Randy Hopper is my fave Bagger because he’s SO outrageous it’s laughable. But unless he’s gone to the Lipton Land in the sky, I’ve no idea what he’s doing. Wonder if his squeeze is still in love with him now he’s out and penniless. At least one HOPES he’s penniless…

bito : RE: the Walker story. He broke the news late and the beltway is out partying, I think more will be made of this story before the election.

SallyT : And, Romney quotes from a book that was proven false written by a Fox dork!

AdLib : Bito – Thanks! It may not technically be a news story but as Murph mentioned, Fox News goes ballistic on something with much less sourcing than this.

AdLib : CL – That is hilarious! I don’t know what has become of him, perhaps recycled into a big bad tasting tea bag?

SallyT : FLAZ is no Flax!

AdLib : Bito – Thanks for the polls tweeter, I have and will continue to say that gauging things by a single poll out on any particular day is like judging the nation’s weather by how it looks out your window today.

AdLib : Sally – Lots of nasty stuff in Scott’s bill but yes, the 48 hour requirement on turning in voter registrations was blocked by the court. That was the main problem for LOWV and others. That teacher who turned in her students’ registrations found that she would have been subject to criminal laws and prison! On top of heavy fines! Sorry FL, I know other states like AZ take the title at times but how third world is FL government that such a banana republic law could be passed?

SallyT : Bito, thank you for keeping us informed from the other side of the Planet!

bito : David Schuester is still the only one reporting the Walker story, it was his work that broke the story

choicelady : AdLib – anyone know whatever became of WI Bagger Randy Hopper, he of the illegal residential registration? He’d deserted his wife and daughter for his young honey, and when protester went to his house early in the last recall, even his wife and daughter signed the petitions!!!! He was recalled, but I’ve lost track of him. He is so aptly named, too.

bito : If you are on twitter, or follow our time line, check out tweets for @jeffersonobama. He follows 21+ polls and not just the corporate ones. Gives a whole new perspective on polls.

AdLib : Sally, as CL said, between the recalls last year and a Repub resigning, Repubs have lost control of the WI Legislature. There are also 3 or more Repubs on the recall ballot Tuesday so control could be firmly in Dem hands then. If Barrett wins, those anti-union laws could be overturned in a snap!

SallyT : AdLib, did that change the shortening of time to register? I heard he had changed that to one week and that teacher that go in trouble was still in trouble for registering those students without reporting them in time.

choicelady : Murph – oh, thank you!!! Nefver know when that cough will hit you…

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally, CL…here is a virtual Ricola for both of you…your cough is catching on.

AdLib : Night Sabreen!

SallyT : Goodnight Sabreen. Enjoy the weekend.

choicelady : ‘Night Sabreen – sweet dreams! Lovely having you here.

AdLib : Though we’ve been focused on the bad news this week, the court and DoJ stepping in on Rick Scott’s attempt to steal voting rights away is a big deal and a win. League of Women’s Voters has already announced they’re going back in to register voters and I’ll bet Rock the Vote and others will as well. If after everything this week, Obama has a stronger chance to win FL, it hasn’t been that bad of a week.

choicelady : Sally – I think the recall gave the balance back enough to Dems to remove their ability to do those dreadful law changes. I think they’re equally divided now.

choicelady : Sally? “She”?? Never assume – especially when you KNOW you’re right! LOL!!

Sabreen60 : Well good people, it’s time to call it a night. Stay strong and keep positive. Nite, Nite.

SallyT : Don’t the Repugs still have control there in WI even if Walker loses.

choicelady : Sally –

choicelady : Sally – I know when someone leaves office, leftover campaign funds usually get directed to charities, other candidates, etc. (My organization got some from a liberal Senator.) But diverting current campaign funds? Ummmmm – I don’t think that’s kosher. And he has no access to PAC funds supposedly – that’s the issue of separation between the candidate and the independent expenditures folks. PAC money is supposedly NOT under the candidate’s control unless it’s HIS own PAC which most of them are not. This all smells very dicey to me. I think he just pulled an Edwards – and that could lead to OTHER charges if I’m right about this.

SallyT : When is the election of those congresspeople that got recalled there, too?

AdLib : How do things change if Walker loses the recall?

AdLib : Cheers Bito for the Tweet! We need to get the word out!

SallyT : Well, whomever that was (cough back) CL, she was smart to do that.

AdLib : I saw a clip of the debate and Barrett was just pounding Walker in it, did my heart good.

choicelady : Someone (cough) just sent out a tweet with this link from Murph.

SallyT : There are boundaries on the use of campaign funds but I don’t know them either. Those pack funds are a different animal altogether.

AdLib : Murph – Fox doesn’t even need someone else to make up a story, they make one up from scratch then “report”, “Sources say that if Romney is elected, it will rain gold bullion,” not mentioning that one of their own was the source. So, yes, damn straight, Barrett and company should definitely run with it!

choicelady : Sally – I know that’s the outcome, but the charge is legit. There are boundaries on the use of campaign funds I think. I just don’t know what they are.

AdLib : CL – I don’t think Walker was or will be formally named as a target until after the election, possibly months from now as Shuster describes. I think he was trying to force this crook out of the closet in time for the election with his report and that was a good idea. Time to run with this big time in WI!

choicelady : Sabreen – I know that. Disgusting. Jeb Bush apparently had the same problems. It was a feature in Mother Jones years ago about the legal problems of ALL the Bush Boys. Every one of them had something hanging over their heads.

SallyT : CL, I thought that was one of the reasons that it was a hung jury, they could not determine if the money was for the campaign or a gift from a rich friend. I thought that was the not guilty. I thought they determined that she gave him the money for his personal use. I don’t know, I could have it backwards.

Sabreen60 : CL, Rick Scott of FL was implicated in Medicare fraud before he won the governorship.

choicelady : Google – PLEASE come back with an answer. Sorry, where ARE my manners?

choicelady : Hey Google – is Walker publicly named as a target of the investigation now? If you’re crawling, come back with an answer?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…re. the Walker/Shuster story….my advice…ask yourself WWFD….What would FOX do? yeah, run with it.

choicelady : Anyone – LEGAL question. If John Edwards was indicted for misusing campaign funds for his mistress, is Walker misusing them by making them his defense fund? Anyone know what the limits are?

AdLib : Murph – Great detective work! It isn’t a news story but it will get traction just the same in WI. Shuster will now be quoted and let’s face it, Walker has been building a legal fund…for what other reason. I still say Barrett and the Dems should run with it to the finish line.

choicelady : Murph – I always have that reaction to Maher even the first time!

choicelady : Sabreen – the ONLY time it was cool to vote for the corrupt candidate was in LA when the indicted incumbent governor was being challenged by David Duke of the KKK. Bumper stickers read, “Vote for the crook. It’s important.” The crook won.

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…I am just watching a rerun of Real Time with Bill Maher….I think I laughed the first time I saw this but tonight in light of the news I am finding nothing funny here. It comes across as smug liberals poking fun at the dumb GOP who are grabbing our lunch…..nothin g funny here.

choicelady : Sally – kudos to Mr. T.!

SallyT : Right, CL, just like they care about this old lady and my SSD check and Medicare. They love me, too…..don’t love me you Repugs!

choicelady : It appears to be a press release from the Barrett campaign, but two other sources say Walker IS setting aside hundreds of thousands of dollars of campaign money for his defense fund AND that he actually blooped yesterday and admitted he’s being investigated. But no – this is NOT a full tilt revelation, sad to say.

Sabreen60 : I sure hope the folks in WI have more sense than those in FL. They put a crook in office.

AdLib : Sally – Tell Mr. T for me, he rocks! Very thoughtful and cool of him to do!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I think I found the source…a statement made by David Schuster that was mostly supposition. Here is the story… «link»

AdLib : Murph – I can’t find any corroborating reports right now so let’s see what tomorrow brings.

SallyT : I have to break in and tell you how sweet MR. T is. My battery was going down and he went and got an extension cord so I could plug in my computer so I would be able to close down with AdLib. Just had to let you know that he is being a sweet guy even with car problems.

choicelady : Sally – yeah, the GOP marches (well, rides) in parades, weeps crocodile tears over our fallen, and then lets Walter Reed get black mold, cuts all funding for vets’ care and benefits, and sends in Dominionist Christians to tell them if they’re not happy being screwed, they aren’t “good enough Christians”. Yup – the GOP looooooves our veterans.

AdLib : If this helps take Walker down, and it sure as hell should, that would be a huge shot in the arm for the opponents of the Koch plutocracy gang and a huge defeat for them!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…now that it worked…I have been trying to track down its source and cannot find it. Is this news item for real?

AdLib : Thanks Murph, the url worked!

SallyT : I wouldn’t think so! That is stealing from the TROOPS! And, arent’ those Repugs always for the Troops????

AdLib : I’m very encouraged by Walker’s being named a suspect, I do think that it’s a game changer in WI that all the Koch money won’t be able to equal in terms of impact. Do people in WI really want to keep someone in their governor’s chair who is a suspect in embezzling from a veterans fund?

SallyT : Thank you CL for always (well usually) understanding me!

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL Here is URL again…. «link»

SallyT : AdLib, it certainly should cement the mind of most voters. If it doesn’t, than the money wins and voters can’t think for themselves.

AdLib : So, that small fraction of undecided voters in WI will have this news to help them decide. It may not be a lot with most already decided but it could be just enough.

choicelady : Murph – the url didn’t work for me either.

choicelady : Sally – you’re doing FINE! LOL!! We’re all moving too fast! Anyway – I understood just fine.

AdLib : Murph – The link didn’t work for me. Try pasting it again?

SallyT : I didn’t mean nope to what you said CL, I meant nope in agreement. Maybe I should keep my head under the hood with Mr. T as I am not coming across to well on here.

SallyT : Nope, CL, once a Union Member, always a Union Supporter when it comes to votes.

AdLib : This could be the last straw. After the video of Walker declaring “divide and conquer” and his refusal to say if he would sign a Right to Work bill, this should cement in the mind of most voters what a crook and liar he is.

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…here is a link from WISPolitics which gives LOTS of detail re. the Walker legal problems…http: //www.wispolitic s.com/index.iml? Article=270852

choicelady : Sally – I got ya the first time! In some ways there is no such thing as a ‘former’ union member. Now they have a chance to kick some real GOP butt. Can’t think but what a whole lot more people will be walking tomorrow and Sunday for the recall and election of Barrett.

SallyT : I mean support their Union’s fight for votes to over turn Walker.

AdLib : Sally – They may not be able to contribute to their unions if unemployed but you bet they’re anxious to vote and fire the man who fired them! I know it will be closer than it should be but I wonder if with this latest revelation, if Walker goes down by a much bigger percentage than expected.

choicelady : Murph – it’s a large number of former union people. AFSCME has lost almost 2/3 of its base. That doesn’t mean those people don’t have their hearts in this. Who is left in the union are friends of those gone – count on solidarity, especially now in the wake of the investigation! Walker’s not “john doe” now!!!!

SallyT : I am sure that even without paying dues, they all still support their unions.

Sabreen60 : Hey Bito. I had to step away for a moment.

MurphTheSurf3 : Cl-have you a link to the Veteran story…if not…ok…I am going to search this out and send it to my crowd.

choicelady : Murph – Walker is accused of stealing money from various accounts meant to aid veterans. Now that’s gonna get some people’s knickers in a sizeable twist – it’s the one group you’d better NOT rip off!

SallyT : I don’t disagree, CL, and it doesn’t mean that those people aren’t doing exactly what you said but when it is a question of food on the table, the dues aren’t paid.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and Choice…good point re. why some left the union- no longer members because they no longer have jobs…I wonder how many there are?

AdLib : CL – Great point, all the public workers Walker has axed are of course not paying union dues but that doesn’t mean they don’t support the union!

choicelady : AdLib – wouldn’t have been one I’d see. I’ve NEVER seen her. I’m always at work, no TV. But Ed probably (being Ed) stole the line!

choicelady : Sally – they may have stopped paying dues. Doesn’t mean they don’t donate, don’t work with their friends, don’t walk precincts and won’t help GOTV. They have a chance to get their jobs back – it’s worth everything to be part of it.

AdLib : CL – I think it was one of the earlier shows, Maybe Tamron Hall? I do like her.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…Walker is involved with a Veterans scandal? or am getting confused in your discussion with Sally?

AdLib : Bito – Thanks for the good news! To have this come out with several days until the recall couldn’t be better timing! You know Tom Barrett and those on his side out there are already cutting the tv and radio spots!

SallyT : Murph, I am sure all those that have already lost their jobs under Walker have stopped paying dues. That would make a difference.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…regarding the voter fraud allegations in WI…it is a well practiced line and being widely repeated in suburban and rural WI…another theme- don’t trust those city people, too many minorities.

choicelady : Murph – I saw the same thing and wondered the same thing. They have a chance to get their state BACK. They need to act, not roll over and play dead.

choicelady : AdLib – who called the guy out on the 7? I think it was Ed, and no the guy did NOT apologize. Lies keep rolling. I’m working on an issue about that.

MurphTheSurf3 : I tossed this out earlier but given Bito’s announcement…. Rachel tonight reported that since Walker’s laws that have removed the collective bargaining by Public Unions those unions have lost 2/3 of their membership. That is how shortsighted folks can be…Will this wake some of them up or motivate them to move on Walker?

choicelady : Sally – a major chunk of the embezzlement charge is stealing from VETERANS. I know few details, but it’s smarmy. Hey – I can respect “good graft”, juice under the table, a little vig now and then – I’m from ChiCAWgo. But this is ripping off the little people NOT the contractors etc. These people WOULD kick over little old ladies to get their laundry money and WOULD swipe candy from baby buggies. They are despicable!

MurphTheSurf3 : Bito….thank you….you may have given me a reason to go to sleep tonight.

AdLib : I saw an interview yesterday, maybe the same one. And the RW bozo was claiming, “It’s been documented, lots of voter fraud in WI!” They got the numbers during the interview and told the weasel there were only 7 suspected incidents out of millions of voters…and hundreds of thousands would be penalized with being restricted to vote if they don’t have IDs. The jerk looked sheepish and smiled like an eight year old with his hand in the cookie jar. It’s just a game to the Repubs, lying without getting caught.

SallyT : Bito, really? Well, that cost the Koch Brothers a waste of a few million if it makes a difference in the voting public which it should!

MurphTheSurf3 : Bito…I can find nothing with a quick search

bito : «link»

choicelady : bito!!!!!! FOR SURE???????? THAT’S GREAT AND THANK YOU!

MurphTheSurf3 : Bito…link…te ll me more.

choicelady : Sally – yes, I think that’s it. I liked seeing that!

bito : Breaking: Gov.Scott Walker is now a target for prosecution

choicelady : Murph – remember those figures are not PEOPLE but households. They extrapolate who’s watching. I’ve done Nielsens, and it’s entirely a crap shoot what you say about who is watching.

SallyT : I think, CL, it was the Ed’s Show.

AdLib : Don’t forget, CNN entered into a partnership with the Tea Party! Presenting debates together! And the racism and homophobia was sanctioned by them. They deserve to plummet farther…then let Soros or Turner buy them back at a bargain and turn them back into an actual news channel.

choicelady : AdLib – I can’t recall what I was watching yesterday, but among several people there was one conservative hollering about voter fraud, and the other two demanding EVIDENCE. He could not provide it. Maybe Rachel? Can’t recall but that does’t feel right. Anyway – I was SO glad to see that shout out for FACTS!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Nielsen average for the Obama McCain Debates…51 million. Palin Biden got 68 million…..131 million voted in 2008…so not as bad as I thought but still not overwhelming

SallyT : Right, Sabreen, I heard that, too. That is why I think they should do something different from FOX and even MNBC. Focus on lies and present the truth.

AdLib : CL – Very encouraging and I think the DoJ will get very aggressive on the voter suppression laws now. They must know, if allowed to stand and strip millions of voting rights…which allows Romney to win and have a DoJ which will promote voter suppression laws…it’s a hard road back to democracy.

choicelady : WEll the DOJ 2000 was still Clinton, the wuss.

SallyT : CL, I know all of that and that is why I am glad they are doing it before the election and not waiting until after to get involved. Would have helped in 2000 but I don’t think that the NAACP was getting any attention that something was going on from the DOJ until after.

choicelady : SAbreen – yes, I’d read that as well. It’s got to make CNN advertisers sit up and take notice!

choicelady : Sabreen and AdLib- when we do the work, we can overcome money. Even Rmoney. ESPECIALLY Rmoney!

AdLib : Sabreen – Keeping the Repubs from stealing FL could on its own mean Obama will win. If he takes FL, Romney has no path.

Sabreen60 : Sally, I read on Twitter or TheObamaDiary that CNN’s viewership has fallen by 52%. They decided to turn into FOX and now paying the price.

choicelady : Sally – the DOJ has sent warning letters to several states.This is first notice to cease and desist. Then, as in FL, the District US Attorney moves in, files with the court, the court acts. They always issue a TRO – Temporary Restraining Order – first, then a hearing, then if evidence warrants, a permanent injunction. I’ve actually participated in that process on a different issue – it’s VERY powerful stuff!

AdLib : CL – Thanks for bringing that up, though it has been a bad week and really month for us and Obama, there have been many recent successes of populism lately, from Zimmerman to Komen to the WI recalls, the Rush boycott, the ALEC boycott and on and on. Yes, there are powers and billions of dollars arrayed against the majority but when we pull together, we overcome them.

Sabreen60 : Ooops. Hit the enter key by mistake….anywa y…. if we get the vote out and fight against the dirty tricks, I think we stand a really good chance of winning.

SallyT : Sabreen, I am glad they are getting involved, too, before the election and not after for once.

AdLib : Murph – That really wasn’t the case in 2008, the debates were widely watched by Americans and I think that will be the case again this year.

Sabreen60 : AdLib, Absolutely. Also, I was heartened to hear that the DOJ is getting more involved with the voter suppression issue. Also, law suits are being filed. If nothing else we’

SallyT : CNN should just focus on finding lies and proving them wrong with the truth. No matter the side.

AdLib : CL – If all of us didn’t have to go through it, I would kind of root for the lazy, ignorant and emotional voters to get Romney and the Repubs as their leaders so they could have their just deserts for being so damn lazy and uninformed. You want to vote for the fraud and liar who promises you unicorns and won’t even put out a little energy on your own to verify if unicorns even exist? Still, I don’t want that kind of suffering for 99% of Americans so those idiots will luck out thanks to all the work and donations the rest of us provide.

choicelady : Murph – one thing I saw that encouraged me was that with CNN’s rightward slant, they have lost 52% of their audience. That has GOT to hurt their cred with advertisers. And look at the impact we’ve had with ALEC – major corporations pulling out, and with Rush’s advertisers. We CAN make a difference.

SallyT : Murph, I hope all those Independents watch the debates.

SallyT : CL, I saw him on Jon Stewart and he was promoting his new book but I was in the middle of something and didn’t catch what the book was about.

choicelady : Sally – I don’t know. I’ll have to find it – didn’t even know Rather had a book out!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…who watches the debates…the numbers are not huge. AND…the debates are colored by the filters the media campaigns have put into place. Add to this, that the spin will always spin away from Barack given the power of Fox, talk radio, many sites on the blogosphere AND the weakness of the MSM in pointing out truth from lies.

AdLib : Sabreen – I do accept the seriousness of the forces arrayed against the majority of us but I agree, in the end, I think the debates and the campaign by Obama will help expose Romney to those who haven’t been paying attention and Romney will go down, no matter how much money is spent trying to buy the Presidency for him. But we need to get out there this year in a big way!

SallyT : CL, is that what Rather’s new book is about?

AdLib : CL – The RW are a nasty and scheming bunch, I think their fingerprints are all over the Rather “sting”, just like all the RW stings, they are frauds.

choicelady : AdLib – that’s absolutely right, and that IS what will cause the collapse of the economy. I predict by the end of 2013 we will make 1929 look like a mild downturn if they have their way.

Sabreen60 : It’s still early and I don’t think a lot of people are paying attention. I can’t wait for the debates. PBO is gonna eat Romney’s lunch.

AdLib : CL – But the concept of a ruling elite with the rest of the population as peasants is not sustainable. If they realize more of their plan and rip the entitlements and social services away from the public, who will buy their products? Consumers account for 70% of GDP and these idiots think they can kill the golden goose and still have it lay eggs. Just like the 2008 economic destruction, their pursuit of this plutocracy will be destroyed one way or another.

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…I am sitting here quietly reading all of your comments. I have said a lot today at the Planet and elsewhere and am trying to do more listening than speaking…

choicelady : AdLib – sidebar on free press: the flap with Dan Rather having a document about Bush’s AWOL stunt was discredited because it was typed on an IBM Executive Selectric in 1971, and everyone including IBM said they did not exist then. But they DID – we used them at one of the Cal State Colleges in the president’s office! They were totally in use, not experimentally, but IBM LIED and no one stood up for Rather – except ME, and no one would talk to me.

choicelady : ADLib – the deterioration of the free press is RIGHT out of the Trilateral Commission’s 1975 guide book to creating a global market. Very scary that so much they wanted to secure a ruling elite has already come true, and the rest is on the way.

AdLib : CL – Part of wht I think is the matter with America is that there is no value for the truth in society or the MSM so whether something is true or not doesn’t matter that much. Look at Romney’s whole campaign, nothing but lies and yet the MSM helps promote them by plying that “balanced news” act. Balancing the truth with lies is not balance, it is deterioration. The press is what used to protect the public as a last resort. Now the corporations own the press along with much of the government and the typical American just nods and accepts the “news” they’re told by corporations.

choicelady : Sally – that will be interesting, but look at what already happened with OH overturning the SB 5 eradication of bargaining rights. WI people with whom I’m talking are fine, but Murph is hearing from those burned out. I don’t know where the strength lies. But I do know that we CAN overcome money with boots on the ground. It happened already in the recalls in WI and the SB 5 defeat.

SallyT : I really feel that WI will tell me.

SallyT : All these lies out there are scary! I don’t know if as many people are looking for the truth than those that are listening to the lies.

AdLib : CL – I wouldn’t put anything out of the realm of possibility for the Baggers and Repubs but it would be pretty outrageous to stonewall him on appointing a SCOTUS judge…which the Dems could then do even if they were in the minority via filibuster if a Repub followed Obama in the Presidency.

choicelady : Sally – I do fear you’re right, but I’m sick of faux progressives that are spreading falsehoods widely, too. What IS the matter with America?

AdLib : Sabreen – What I think people were thinking in 2010 is only, “I’m mad at Obama and the Dems for not waving their magic wands and making everything better in an instant so I’ll show them I’m mad and vote against them.” I don’t think people were voting for Baggers as much as against Obama and Dems “to send a message”. Have they not realized the error of their ways? I hope so.

SallyT : I am losing faith in the American public and their short memories.

choicelady : Sally – there’s a lot of mumbling going on at Bagger congressional meetings with their constitutents…

choicelady : AdLib – if both houses go GOP, no SCOTUS judge Obama nominates will ever get approved by the Senate.

SallyT : CL, yes, lets see how they explain that!

AdLib : Murph – You know the saying, the best laid plans and all. If Obama wins and I think he will, he may have the chance to appoint a 5th moderate/Progres sive justice and many things could turn around in several years, including Citizens United. If ROmney is elected, the SCOTUS could gain a 7 seat RW majority and the next generation will be doomed.

choicelady : Sally – the FUNNIEST part of the Bagger win is that they all lapped up every perk they could with lobbyists – they now have to account to constituents how they got so damned RICH!! It’s apparently becoming a very hot local issue with some of them!

SallyT : AdLib, nothing much has been done by Congress these last two years.

choicelady : Sabreen – part of it was Dems NOT voting and no, the Baggers did NOT show their true selves until after the election.

AdLib : CL – I am not a doom and gloomer nor do I like to exaggerate about this but I agree. A ROmney win and a Repub Congress or at least retaining the House will lead us into the Depression Obama saved us from plunging into. The economics seem pretty clear on that.

SallyT : Behaps I shouldn’t have said “all” those in congress leave rich but all haven’t left yet either. There are more than there should be, I’ll say it like that.

Sabreen60 : AdLib, Yes I know. But the people voted for the baggers in 2010. They put baggers in the State legislatures across the country. What were they thinking? Did they not know the agenda of the Tea Party?

AdLib : Murph – I wonder, if the Congress went all Repub and nothing of value got done for two more years, might the midterms be good to Obama?

AdLib : Sally, Congresspeople make money through stock tips and through lucrative deals they make with corporations upon exiting. There are some principled Dems but not enough.

choicelady : AdLib – I think we’d be worse than recession – we’d have major Depression. Without any of the Dodd Frank regulations, all holy hell would break loose. We are doomed if they win.

choicelady : Murph – it’s not a conspiracy when it’s baldfaced out there. But people are too stupid to see it.

AdLib : Sabreen – Agreed, that has been their strategy but the kicker is, if the Repubs won, they would cut and cut and we would tumble into the same steep recession Europe has fallen into. And they will have emboldened their Baggers and Plutocrats, no jobs will come and things could get pretty horrible.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib, they have the power and are in the process of getting a lot more….they want a permanent Dem. minority party to play off of. And they are stacking the deck to get it. SCOTUS gave the 2000 election to a neocon and his pack, and then gave them Citizens United. I used to disdain conspiracy theories…not so much anymore.

choicelady : Sally – the ONE Dem Senator to whom that did not aplly – Biden. He’s only upper middle class, and that includes his wife’s income as a physician.

Sabreen60 : Murph, Well PBO would still have veto power.

choicelady : Sabreen – anyone who believes that better be prepared for poverty. All Social Security, Medicare – out the door. Limits on speculation? Gone. Help for your kids’ education? Nope – find a good rate, says Romney. Within one year – a Depression.

AdLib : How it has become settled among the elite that they can openly show spite for those who oppose their immorality, destruction and greed really escapes me.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb…it would be the worst of all possible worlds for Obama to win and the Congress to go GOP.

SallyT : AdLib, all those in Congress leave richer than when they went in. How? Because they have gotten info from those with it and the market. I am still a loyal Dem but I have my disappointments too.

Sabreen60 : This has been in the back of mind. I try to suppress it — The Repubs are holding the economy hostage to make PBO a one-term President. Will the public give into the hostage takers? Will they say to themselves that if they vote PBO out, the Repubs will release the economy and everything will fine and dandy?

choicelady : Hi Bounre, hi AdLib. Yup. I’m peeved, too. I’m sick of plutocrats, and I don’t care WHO they are.

AdLib : Hey CL! Doing fine tonight! I am still burned up about Clinton’s siding with Bain and ROmney but otherwise, okay.

BourneID : Hi CL fine thanks

choicelady : Evening everyone – caught up with the Bain of my existence thread. Other than that, how is everyone?

AdLib : Sally, you’re pretty much right. There are a good number of Dems who support the 99% but having another good number of Dems joining the lockstep GOP in protecting Wall Street…we have a real challenge ahead of us to steer this bus back away from plutocracy.

SallyT : I’m sorry but I think both sides of the campaign our looking our for Wall Street and they both have “buddies” there.

AdLib : Sabreen – They are all the North East DLCers who are intermingled with hedge funds for their present and future. They hqave apparently all been “nudged” by theie 1%er pals to push back on Obama. Why else have all of them dogpiled on Obama for Bain in the same week?

AdLib : Murph – No, my optimism isn’t fading but I do accept the odds as they are. I think we can win this election and Obama will get re-elected. At the same time, I think the Congress is a big question mark and state governments as well. People really need to have their faces rubbed in the gravel before they recognize how the Repubs are treating them.

Sabreen60 : Why can’t these conservative blue dogs just shut up. No one asked Booker, Patrick or Clinton to give their detailed opinion about Bain. Did the powers-that-be at Bain tell them to go public with their praise?

AdLib : Murph – I don’t think so, Bill is just acting naturally. He’s a DLCer, an elitist who protects his own.

Sabreen60 : Really Murph? How old will Hilary be in 2016? I hear many people talking about Martin O’Malley. I wouldn’t put it past Bill. He’s not really been on board.

AdLib : Sabreen and Murph – I don’t think it was premeditated but I do think Clinton’s support for his hedge fund buddies…which includes his daughter and son in law, come first. And I do think that he still holds a grudge against Obama for beating Hillary, I’m sure “Entitlement Bill” still feels that he should be in the White House now. Remember, he lost out too.

BourneID : AdLib, I become too depressed when I think of SCOTUS. What has happened there is beyond understanding. I’ve always heard there is honor among thieves – guess not.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….your three scenarios make sense to me. It sounds as if your optimism is fading. Is it?

AdLib : Hi Sally! Thank goodness for laptops!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…I think Clinton wants an Obama loss…as it clears the stage for a nightmare four GOP years and a white horsed knight named Hillary to ride in come 2016.

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

SallyT : Hi GUYS! I’m here but not attentively as I am out helping my husband work on our van. It has a coolant leak and we are trying to find it. So, I have the computer out here to look up things for him and to check in on you all.

Sabreen60 : Hi Folks, I refuse to freak out over Clinton {{{sigh}}} or the jobs report. But I really would like to put my foot up Clinton’s behind. He could have kept his mouth shout. But then again it’s “look at me” Clinton….

AdLib : Bourne, with the help of the SCOTUS, I’ll bet an overrepresented portion of that 1% are the wealthy. They can afford it. As people have their earnings, benefits, retirement and entitlements carved away, they can’t afford to have “speech” as the SCOTUS defines it, money that is.

BourneID : Hey Murph interesting info from Rachel. I didn’t watch tonight. Had no idea that only 1% contribute to campaigns…does n’t that seem too low? what’s her source?

AdLib : Murph – There’s one of three courses in all of this. The people come together sooner and push back the domination of the 1%. They just think short term and force themselves (and the rest of the nation) to suffer severely long enough for a populist movement to gather steam and push back…or they accept being reduced to serfs. I hate to say it but before real change occurs, I think the American public is going to need to suffer much more than they are…which is so hard to believe but the money and MSM brainwashing is down to a science.

AdLib : Murph – That’s frightening. I’m sure ALEC’s members invested a lot of time and resources figuring out which lynch pins to knock out to destroy unions the quickest. I do assume that the greed for money today at the risk of losing jobs and money tomorrow has convinced people to stop paying dues. Americans are notoriously short term thinkers.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne….hello.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb….did you see Rachel tonight…she revealed that Public Union membership in Wi has dropped by 2/3 since Walker passed his “no collective bargaining rules”. Feeds into my theory of the selfish and uninformed voter. She also noted that less than 1 percent of us contribute $ to campaigns. That number has been dropping for years.

AdLib : Now if we can only make laws to put Wall Street in jail for lying. I’ll bet they made a fortune on those people who invested in the Facebook IPO…with the inside knowledge that there were negative numbers out there that weren’t known by the public.

AdLib : Only decent news today, Zimmerman was found to be lying about having hundreds of thousands of dollars he hid when claiming poverty, he’s in jail now and a good start to the trial, displaying his dishonesty.

AdLib : Hey Murph! How’s all by you?

AdLib : Yep, we are indeed! Hope there’s a decent turnout even though there’s no competitive primary, there are ballot initiatives.

BourneID : Hi MTS. I wan’t planning to talk, but it’s my favorite thing. Glad you’re here.

MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Ad Lib…..

BourneID : AdLib,and we’re voting on Tues also.

AdLib : It was a rough week for the left, maybe we’ll get some good news next week from WI?

AdLib : Oh, and left out Clinton at a rally in WI against Walker, that election is on Tuesday!

AdLib : Oh, they’ll pop in any moment, usually getting an nice cool beverage before sitting down for a chat.

AdLib : Clinton’s props for Romney and criticisms for Obama, Zimmerman in jail with bail pulled, an amendment in the House to prevent abortions of choice, John Edwards a free man, jobs report downer and market down…

BourneID : Where did everyone go, AdLib? Did I drive them away. Sally T and 3 guests – now you and me?

AdLib : So much going on in the news today, my head’s spinning.

BourneID : I”m doing great AdLib. Thank you.

AdLib : I’ll try my best but no money back guarantees here!

AdLib : Hey Bourne! How are ya!

BourneID : Ho all My question got away from me. I’m listening only tonight. can’t stay long, so please be interesting everyone.

BourneID : Hi Sally T; Hi AdLib, where have you b-e-e-e-n?

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. I’m…ba-a-a-ck ! Hope to see you then!