Vox Populi – 5-11-2012

SallyT : Note to AdLib: I closed it up and took out the empties. If anything is broken, it was Funk who did it! Good night.

SallyT : I will close it all up and leave the place clean. Thank you for staying with me!

SallyT : Well, good night to both you fine gentlemen.

SallyT : Funk, you there or are you counting your tabs.

MurphTheSurf3 : Well….ye few, ye happy few….time for me to wish you adieu!

funksands : Sheesh, sorry everyone, forgot I had something on the stove. Need to go clean up! Night all!

AlphaBitch : Good thing I got on after the boss was gone….cuddle up w/ the critters, Sally.

SallyT : Good night, AB, and dream about the wedding.

MurphTheSurf3 : Goodnight AB…thanks for lifting the conversation to new heights.

SallyT : I will, AB, but he usually sleeps with me.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…ah hah, got it.

SallyT : Pipes, Murph.

AlphaBitch : Wow, look how low I dragged the conversation in just a matter of minutes. Truly, I’ve outdone myself. I’m dead tired and in need of rest. Sweet dreams, all. Sally don’t forget to put the dog out and lock the door.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…Headers?

SallyT : Murph, I loved to put cards in my Bicycle spokes. I think that is why I had to have Headers on my car.

AlphaBitch : Plus the sound of Depends on the wedding aisle is not very romantic…

AlphaBitch : Is that my heart, or my cards? Only my doctor knows for sure!

MurphTheSurf3 : AB…flutter, flutter, flutter, flutter…

AlphaBitch : Whoo hoo. Ride ’em cowgirl.

SallyT : I married one, AB, and it has been fun!

AlphaBitch : MTS: Great idea. Like cards in bicycle spokes.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB….I have an image in my mind…it is to laugh….instead of step..together.. .step….togethe r…It would be, clomp, pause, clomp, pause etc. You can hang the flowers from the bars of the walkers and strew them during the pauses

SallyT : AB, they change into steers.

AlphaBitch : Me too Sally. In fact, I always told the Blov that if he died or left me, I was moving to WY to work as a cook on a ranch. Lots of cowboys and food. Good combo.

SallyT : Sorry but I like Wyoming Cowboys.

AlphaBitch : I mean, into what, Funk?

AlphaBitch : Into what?

AlphaBitch : But there is still some damn fine music and some really great people, Sally

funksands : Texas changes a person…

AlphaBitch : I did offer to be a flower girl for my pretend niece – if she hurries. I don’t want to have to use a walker to go down the damn aisle.

funksands : Murph, Yeah! That’s a good approx.

SallyT : Yes, she was AB and she is gone and I see no need to visit.

AlphaBitch : Funk, yeah. But the bride thing is a little old now.

MurphTheSurf3 : funk…a sort of Pimms Cup USA

funksands : Would’ve been cooler if it was 2011…

AlphaBitch : Now Sally. Ann Richards was from Texas

funksands : Speaking of Dr. Pepper, I’ll admit to a guilty habit now long gone. Jack and Dr. Pepper. MMMMMMM

AlphaBitch : Funk, no dear. Around 1984 or so. I just got rid of the dress this year, though when we moved.

SallyT : I ain’t from Texas and ain’t going there either.

AlphaBitch : Sally: Dr Pepper, the National SoftDrink of Texas?

funksands : AB, halloween 2011?

MurphTheSurf3 : funk…luv it….

funksands : Murph, if someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!!

SallyT : Personally I would never have 10 open Tabs but I do have a can of Dr.Pepper going.

AlphaBitch : Did I ever tell you about my fave Halloween costume? A cheapo brides gown I got at a thrift store for $12. I Left the price tag on, and wore it (w/ cowboy boots and skeletal earrings) and went up to every guy at the party, tucked my arm into his and said “I do. Or I did. But only once and it wasn’t that much fun.”

MurphTheSurf3 : WHO YA GONNA CALL…Funksande rs

funksands : No fly tonight Sally dear.

funksands :

funksands : I’ve got 10 tabs open. Does it make my browser look fat?

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I am the Marshmallow Man

SallyT : Funk, I don’t know about the tabs but your fly is open.

AlphaBitch : And what is the tab for tonight, Funk?

funksands : I am the Keymaster, are you the Gatekeeper?

SallyT : Funny, Murph!

AlphaBitch : Funk is our tabs keeper…

funksands : You type distracted

MurphTheSurf3 : funk why did you ask about tabs?

AlphaBitch : MTS: Too funny!

MurphTheSurf3 : A favorite story…A judge in SF had a couple before him wanting a divorce. Wife 90. Husband 91. They claimed to have been out of love for 50 plus years. When asked why they waited so long their response was that they did not want to split as long as their kids were still ALIVE…..

funksands : «link»

AlphaBitch : Probably the socks.

AlphaBitch : LOL

funksands : “You can have him”

AlphaBitch : Funk, are you offering to marry her? What will Missriss Funk say??

SallyT : At 70 I don’t know if I would recognize sex????

AlphaBitch : Or cook. I can’t read the damn books now at 60!

funksands : Seriously, where would you start? All the drive-ins are torn down!

SallyT : She said she almost married 45 years ago but changed her mind.

AlphaBitch : It’d be hard to bend down and pick up the mister’s socks now at 70.

AlphaBitch : Maybe it was 70 virgins who wanted to marry. The blov asked one of our Muslim kids “What happens if all the virgins are 70 year old nuns?” The look of shock…..

SallyT : Personally, I would hate to be getting started at 70!

funksands : Is she sure? Maybe she should wait for the right guy!

SallyT : Yes, it is true, or atleast she claims she is.

AlphaBitch : Nope. Now THAT’S funk-y!

SallyT : Okay, did you see the story of the 70 year old virgin that thinks she is ready to marry?

AlphaBitch : I’ve wanted to watch the close down the shop, and thanks to my fab friend, I’m here to see it through.

funksands : That’s it?

AlphaBitch : Trying to talk to a friend on the W coast and read all the musings of the evening. Hmmm seems religion and politics both covered. Sex?

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…5

SallyT : AlphaBitch, you get to pick the topic.

funksands : Murph, just out of curiosity, how many tabs do you have open on your browser?

AlphaBitch : Good god, Batman!

SallyT : GOOD!

funksands : Holy crap!

MurphTheSurf3 : funk, sally and whoever else…I have not been chased away

AlphaBitch : Fat chance, Funk. I’ve just now awakened!

SallyT : You are the scary one, FUNK!

funksands : I’ve chased them all away….excellen t

SallyT : CL, you leaving?

funksands : Cheers and good night.

choicelady : funk – that IS still our plan, but not precisely where. July for sure, just not the exact dates. We will be in touch.

SallyT : Happy Mother’s Day there KES! Have a good one. Mansion has already given me a dozen roses!

choicelady : ‘Night KQ and Sabreen. I think I’m following you both – up at 4 am, six plus hours on the road, long, long conference, and I’ve HAD it. So good night everyone! See you next week!

kesmarn : Thanks so much, c’lady. He’s worked awfully hard.

funksands : CL, you still headed up this way in the summer?

SallyT : Goodnight Sabreen!

kesmarn : G’night Sabreen!

funksands : Night Sabreen

SallyT : Anyway, she got told off some. KQ, have a good night! See you later.

kesmarn : I think I’ll have to check out, too, KQ and all. After the midnight hour here! Have a great weekend. And to the moms here, happy mom’s day!

Sabreen60 : Good nite KQ. I’ve got to go, too – have an early morning. Take care y’all.

choicelady : Oh kes, yes. I’m so glad he marched and got hooded and all! Congratulations about and for him, and also on GREAT weather!

SallyT : KQ, did you see the post on Bristol I put up?

funksands : Night K

KQµårk 死神 : Take care folks I gotta go. Good talking for a bit.

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady. He marched hood and all. To humor his sentimental mom. He would just as soon have skipped it. Perfect weather.

choicelady : KQ – so you ARE going! I think you’ll like it there. It’s awfully pretty, IMHO.

SallyT : Sabreen, I have a book Gods and Goddesses and many of the ancient stories/pagan are retold as biblical in the Bible.

funksands : Need to brush up on my PA geography I can see.

kesmarn : c’lady, you’re right. Madison is waaaay up there in math. Higher than some of the Ivies. It was a heart-breaker to turn Purdue down, but he had to do it.

choicelady : Murph – yes, that would be the role of women at the Last Supper. Women WERE powerful in early Christianity. Too bad the Old Boys did then what they’re trying to do now to the nuns. Women in the church ARE the church, never mind the pastors.

KQµårk 死神 : Actually NE PA.

Sabreen60 : CL, I can’t recall, but years ago I read that Egyptians believed a story very much like the story of Jesus.

funksands : KQ, that’s west PA?

choicelady : Kes – OH wow – did NOT know he marched last Saturday! Hood and all? Hope it wasn’t hot!

KQµårk 死神 : Joe Biden land.

kesmarn : Thanks, Sabreen. He’s excited and so am I. But I’m gonna miss him too….

KQµårk 死神 : Around Wilkesbarre Scranton.

choicelady : Kes! FAB news! U of Wisconsin is such a GREAT school! Maybe not quite as close as Purdue, but not terribly far away. I’m so happy for him and for you!

funksands : KQ, excellent. What part of the state, if I can ask?

kesmarn : KQ, some of the Madison grant money came from the NSF. I think our Prez may have had something to do with that!

choicelady : funk – I don’t know much at all of Egyptian religion, but I thought Horus had 12 servants – not as we think of them, but as people who attended him. Not QUITE the same thing – but likely the origin of the story in Christianity!

MurphTheSurf3 : CL There is a tradition within the earliest christian communities that Mary Magdalene, Salome, and the other Mary were all presbyters, priests….prese nt at the Last Supper and commissioned by Yeshua

funksands : Masters in math? Good god, do people still do that?

KQµårk 死神 : We’re moving in the late fall funk.

Sabreen60 : That’s great Kes.

kesmarn : Thanks, funk. He just got a masters in math (ceremony was last Saturday).

SallyT : Mary M was came from a wealthy family and she financed Jesus in his teachings.

KQµårk 死神 : That’s awesome Kes good for him.

funksands : Kes, that’s awesome.

choicelady : Hey KQ – yes, they had to demean her. Nice to see you!

kesmarn : Doing fairly well, KQ. Son got a great offer from U of Wisconsin, Madison and is off to that place in July to start that PhD!

funksands : Hey KQ! Did you guys end up moving to PA?

choicelady : funk – No, current scholarship indicates she was a woman of some means who was really the first disciple and an equal with the others. She attraced other women. The problem is that there were MANY “Marys” – Miriams actually – that get confused too easily. She was also NOT the prostitute who washed Jesus’ feet. She also probably was not Jesus’ wife. But maybe. But who cares. She was profound in her presence though – and women scholars are really digging into who she was. Fascinating.

funksands : Didn’t Horus also have 12 dsciples?

Sabreen60 : Hi KQ!

KQµårk 死神 : Good you Kes.

SallyT : Yes, CL, and that is why they made Mary M a whore when she wasn’t.

BourneID : Thanks MTS – talk to you soon.

Sabreen60 : Nite Bourne and take care of yourself.

kesmarn : Hey, KQ! How are you?

KQµårk 死神 : Just dropped in to say hi.

choicelady : Sally – that is true, but early Christianity was driven by women first. The later church HAD to purge them – they were too powerful and too threatening to men’s control of power.

MurphTheSurf3 : Nite Bourne….great interaction tonight…good contributions to the club

BourneID : CL, great. Yes, time to say goodnight – have a good weekend everyone.

funksands : CL, I always thought Mary M. was simply as representational figure of several beings/people. Not so?

SallyT : Goodnight Bourne. Have a nice evening!

kesmarn : G’Night, Bourne. And I would never laugh @ you!

choicelady : Bourne – I’d love that. I’ll have AdLib put us in touch! Are you shuffling off now? If so, sweet dreams – I’m NOT far behind!

SallyT : The ancient religions had goddesses and the men that choose the books for the Bible didn’t want women to have any power.

choicelady : funk – perfect term for him – douchebag. Bishop John Shelby Spong (retire Episcopal Bishop of Newark, NJ and the one who elevated Gene Robinson as the first openly gay Bishop) wrote about Paul and what Spong believes are Paul’s own struggles with his homosexuality. VERY eye opening.

BourneID : well all…thanks for an enjoyable evening. CL, one day we must have lunch or coffee or something.

SallyT : Paul was gay. Not McCartney, tho.

kesmarn : Murph I always suspected that original sin meant that we all have crazy parents. And we suffer for their craziness. And our kids do the same thing re:us! And on, and on! :lol

choicelady : funk – I was on a panel with two other women, one Muslim, one Jewish (a rabbi) speaking about our role as women and how to be activist AS women. I said Christianity set an almost impossible task – all our “role models” were unattainble, without sin, and divine. It makes seeing who you are and can be very difficult in literalist traditions. It’s one reason SO many women are learning about who Mary Magdalene REALLY was (she was NOT a prostitute.)

funksands : CL Paul was an uptight douchebag wasn’t he?

BourneID : MTS The immaculate perception…out standing.

MurphTheSurf3 : kes…never sinned…the immaculate perception

SallyT : Didn’t think I would, Funk, but one has to try.

choicelady : Bourne – I so agree! I like that they know there WAS a real person, Jesus (not sure it was his name) who brought this amazing new message to people who were so rule bound and hierarchical. And I LOVE the role of women in his mission – they were central. So FU Saul/Paul for changing the message and saying women were second class citizens. People who claim to be Christian but think women are inferior are Paulists, NOT Christians!

kesmarn : Actually c’lady, the immaculate conception thing implied that Mary never sinned/suffered from original sin. The one you’re thinking of is the virgin birth. Nevertheless, I do hope it was easy!

funksands : You don’t scare me…

Sabreen60 : Funk –

SallyT : Funk, BOO!

funksands : Speaking of immaculate conception: «link»

choicelady : kes – since I have no belief in anything literal, all I hope is she had an easy delivery!

funksands : Hi Sabreen!

BourneID : CL thanks for the title; and remember tho original and all changes were written by men who applied the values and customs of the time. I took a great class at university called The Bible as History – and that is where its value really lies.

Sabreen60 : Hey Funk!

kesmarn : Good one, c’lady! ah…that immaculate conception thing. Jesus’s ma had a good thing going there.

SallyT : More evidence that the Bible was written by men.

funksands : Hi CL! Murph, good to see you. I think I saw Sally somewhere around here…

choicelady : Hey funk!

MurphTheSurf3 : Funksands…hah! And murph indeed….AdLib left me on my own and then came you.

funksands : A ball of very cool stress. Nice to see you Kes

choicelady : kes – yes, and that’s rather the stronges point. He does tell her to return to her faithfulness to her husband (go and sin no more) but doesn’t JUDGE her and prevents others from stoning her. GREAT joke – when he says, “Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone, an old lady shuffles up with a pebble and lets fly. Jesus turns to her and says, “You know, Ma, sometimes you REALLY piss me off!”

kesmarn : Good evening, groovy funk! How be you?

funksands : ….and Murph…

funksands : Good evening groovy ladies…

BourneID : Thanks MTS, I thought it was one of the Carolinas.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL Matthew 19 is the Gospel passage re. marriage. It states that a man may not divorce his wife unless she is unfaithful to him; that marriage was meant to provide a way for men and women to create new families away from the one of their origin, and that some are called to be eunuchs for the kingdom. Of note…since the passage was kicked off by a question about divorce between a man and woman, the answer is based on this….Nothing about gay relationships… Paul addresses this in negative terms however…referr ing back to Sodom and Gommorrah.

SallyT : Sure would like to get in the Pope’s library! I bet there are lots of stuff that was in and taken out of the Bible and much more that had nothing to do with the religion at all.

choicelady : Sabreen – not to worry about being Biblically knowledgable. Only those who use it as a weapon are deeply immersed in details.

kesmarn : Jesus did comment about the “woman taken in adultery” which would be a sexual issue. But his comment was: “Leave her alone!” and “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Read that one, RWer!

SallyT : So for the most part we don’t think this will cost vote or make votes for the President??

choicelady : Bourne – in a wonderful book, “Misquoting Jesus” the author notes there are over 400,000 VERSIONS of the Bible because people made errors, and even today with the conservative movement removing ALL liberal passages, total rewrites of some things. Plus, they left out all the books the formal church did not like. Lots and lots of doubt about how ‘inerrant’ the Bible really is!!!!

kesmarn : Never, Bourne!

Sabreen60 : CL, I had the books mixed up. You can tell I not very informed about the Bible.

BourneID : Kesman are you laughing at me?

kesmarn : That was “dysfunct-pop-m a” Bourne — which makes sense!

choicelady : Sabreen – it’s not Ecclesiastes that says that. It’s Leviticus in the OLD Testament. That’s where the icky stuff is as well as really solid laws of economic equality. But Jesus said nothing about any of the sexual issues at all – just “love thy neighbor”. He reached out to all the “enemies” of the Jews, and if that’s not proof of our need to get beyond labels, don’t know what is. The Bible rails against ALL self centered and careless sex. It is silent on committed relationships because they were not inimical to social stability.

BourneID : the word is dysfundctional family – I have no idea what that other one is.

kesmarn : Sabreen, the RW should read Proverbs, chapter 28. I just stumbled upon it the other day. MANY verses condemning the rich who hoard wealth and harm the poor.

BourneID : MTS that poor Bible has more rewrites than Law & Order in 20 years of broadcasting. Amazing. You do know that when God created Adam and then decided he needed compahy so created Eve that the result was that God actually created the first dysfunctopma; family. I’ve also thought there was a litle mischief in there. I’m amazed at the RW Christians who don’t see that even God makes mistakes – his prototype humans didn’t turn out too well.

SallyT : Not always, CL, but yes it did happen to some.

Sabreen60 : The more “enlightened” preacher on Ed’s show said that there is only one book in the Bible – Ecclesiastes – that speaks against gays. Of course that same book says that children who disobey their parents should be stoned and something else I forget.

choicelady : Sally – but love came. Had a diary once of a man called Nailer Tom. He noted events every day for over 50 years. His note when he wed was, “I got married yesterday.” When she died many years later, I cannot even describe the anguish with which he wrote his farewell to her. He adored her, and she him. What a lovely thing to know. He wrote, “I cannot believe I will never, never, never see her again.” It was heartbreaking. Love was just a very different proposition for most people then. It was late 1700s to about 1834 that he kept his records. Beautiful.

SallyT : That is why cousins married cousins to keep it all in the family.

kesmarn : Oh those damn cookies. They are too delicious. Yes, now the Conf of Catholic Bishops is investigating the Girl Scouts. Sigh… Couldn’t they turn their attention to bingo: positive and negative arguments for parishes to have it?

SallyT : Bourne, yes it took time but it is not an issue now and he was trying to say that this won’t be in time either.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne….SC

BourneID : Hey Kes, he’s my favorite guest on the afternoon MSNBC circuit; he still can’t finish a sentence on Chris show (who can?). but I do like him a lot

SallyT : CL, that is so true. And marriage use to be for property matter mainly. Marriages were arranged for that purpose. No love involved.

choicelady : kes – after the War on Girl Scouts happened, a huge group of women started buying up cookies outside the supermarket where I shop! Did the GS a real favor, they did! I bought five boxes and had them sent to the troops. Better there than on my butt.

BourneID : Sally, the miscegination laws re interracial marriage didn’t end in all the states with (help me out her Murph) one of the Carolinas still having it on the books in the 70’s I think. But the law doesn’t wipe out the ignorance.

choicelady : Sally – it’s precisely upon that ground that marriage equality stands. Marriage is NOT eternally about “one man, one woman”. It has had many and various forms over the centuries. And at one point in New England, marriages could NOT be in churches – it was an entirely secular issue. It was not legal to get married in a church if you were a Puritan!

MurphTheSurf3 : Saw a debate this week between a RW PREACHER and a THEOLOGIAN FROM GARRET THEOLOGICAL AT NORTHWESTERN U. The Preacher said his opposition to Obama was based on biblical principals re the nature of marriage. The theologian pointed out that per the Bible there were two initial human beings who had two sons…where did the next generation come from? Incest. He pointed out that the normal form of marriage in the Old Testament is polygamous. He noted that divorce was generally forbidden. Bottom line: the preacher’s view was shown to be one of fitting the Bible to his standards.

kesmarn : My money would be on Eugene Robinson, Bourne!

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, when the Girl Scouts become a cause for another Inquisition, you know you’ve really jumped the shark.

SallyT : CL, I also heard several African American talking about how it use to be that they could not marry a white as it was against the law. We moved on from that and we can from this.

BourneID : Hey all, before I forget. One of my lofteir intellectual pursuits every night is watching Jeopardy. They’re now in DC; next week their guests are what they call the “power players” so Monday, Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd and Eugene Robinson are on. I hoe Matthews gets creamed. It should be fun…don’t know the rest of the week…

choicelady : kes – LOL!!! I work closely with the Catholic Conference here, and all I ever do when their Ex.Dir. starts blathering about “institutional morality” is raise an eyebrow. He shuts up.

choicelady : Sabreen – I head one Black preacher say race is a fact, sexuality is a choice and that he’d seen many “former gays” but never a “former Black”. Oh? We USED to call that “passing”. LOTS of people have done it. I have a friend who is – her father did, she is, her daughter and grandchildren are. So much for THAT argument!

kesmarn : Exactly, c’lady. And hardline RW Catholics who object to the statement by PBO REALLY do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to defending the innocence of children.

SallyT : Eva Longoria on Bill Maher tonight said that the Spanish vote won’t be influenced by the President’s decision on marriage nor will they care if Romney choices whats his name to get their votes.

choicelady : kes – I agree, but it’s legal. And we need to raise that up when the spittle flies in the mouths of the RW who say the next step on the slippery slope is marrying off kids!

Sabreen60 : Murph, I certainly don’t believe religious AA’s will not vote for him. Generally, we are not single issue voters. I saw a preacher on Ed’s show, which was hosted by Michael Eric Dyson. This particular preacher was anti-choice and anti-gay and he was very ummm, ill informed. Michael wiped the floor up with him.

kesmarn : c’lady, that Jerry Lee Lewis situation was…unhealthy. ..to say the least. Loretta Lynn was married at 13 to a grown man, too. That should be against the law in any state.

SallyT : I don’t think that the President made that announcement for votes. I think he has been really trying to accept it as he said. The Africa Americans and the Mexicans have a problem with it but I think they will still support the President. I do think that the younger generation has been in influence to the President in making his decision.

kesmarn : The news of the high school Romney’s attack on gay students was the perfect antidote to any negative reaction to the Prez’s announcement, I think. Tolerance or bullyism, voters? Which side are you on?

choicelady : Murph – tonight David Brooks said that it COULD cost PBO the swing states such as Ohio. That’s very worrisome. But frankly, his leaving it TO the states, as all marriage is, was spot on. Brooks noted that Romney is going to do something federal to put an end to marriage equality and PBO is leaving it to the states. Totally opposite from the usual! But states have the rights – which is why MS lets 13-year-old girls get married with their parents’ OK. So much for “adults marrying children” if gay marriage occurs. Several states already permit that! Anyone here recall Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his 13-year-old cousin?? I think she later committed suicide.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne, thanks

BourneID : Hey Murph, re the dollar incident; it was early in the debate period. I’ll try to find it. I know there were many really disgusted people who commented. One reply to something I wrote said, “Well what YOU have give? He didn’t have to give anything.” Of course, I had to up the ante and said, “I’d give him a hundred dollars, especially since he had press following him everywhere. That’s how we found out.”

SallyT : CL, that is just a short explanation of the differences but I think you can get an idea from that for a start.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…I remember saying to my friends that the rev. Wright sermon fiasco would torpedo O’s campaign, but he used it to create a new understanding of race on the left and to neuter his enemies….I wonder if the same will happen with gay marriage.

kesmarn : Yes, Murph, it communicates that PBO is not willing to pander to the RW just for a few votes that may or may not have gone his way.

SallyT : They stayed behind and are more open minded. The SLC crowd do not like them at all!

MurphTheSurf3 : kes….I agree….my group of progressive friends regarded the action as a wide swing into left field telling us that he is with us and that we better return the favor.

Sabreen60 : Sally, I was really ashamed at my first reaction. I said out loud, ‘well there goes the election’. Then I came to my senses – which is I don’t know.

SallyT : Latter Day Saints in the mid west broke from the Mormon/LDS. They did not like the more than one wife thing and other practices that Brigram Young was following.

kesmarn : I think the RW hoped the Prez’s “gay evolution” statement would become a big negative for him. I think they misgauge the growing tolerance of the American population. Especially younger people. To them: no biggie.

Sabreen60 : Good nite Adlib.

SallyT : How do you all feel the President’s decision to say that he is now in support of gay marriage will affect his re election?

BourneID : CL I’m not a good judge of LDS/Mormon – Sa;ly will you explain the difference? My comments are based on my own “feeling’ about the oddness = but that might be just a particular family.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…certainl y willing to discuss this if others are…can you CAP it to draw attention to it or just let it go as is?

BourneID : AL 0 it was a word that just happened. I was teling Murph about seeing a 9/11 documentary on Smithsonian and saw a President Bush who was on that day truly the Presiden tof the United States. That’s when I felt that Mitt could never do what GWB did or what Pres did at Ft. Hood or last year telling when he told us binLaden was dead. Mitt must not become president. A CEO is NOT qualification for that job. He reported to a Board whose bottom line is profit; furthermore, I doubt he ever crunced a dollar; the financial sucess of his businesses belongs to the CFO. but don’t get me started. I started thinking of this when Herman Cain said he didn’t have to know all that stuff about Lybia and geograph; his people would take of it.

SallyT : Murph, that was a started conversation but we got off track and on to the bully. Sure lets discuss it.

choicelady : ADLib – sorry you have to dash off, but have a lovely weekend et al. We’ll clean up and help Sally turn out the lights. G’night!

kesmarn : Right back atcha, C’lady! Had to work earlier but the census went down and I got to go home. Nice.

choicelady : KES!!!! Great to see you here! Lovely you got the night off!

SallyT : There is a difference between Latter Day Saints and the LDS/Mormons.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T…have you got “Obama’s Gay Marriage Evolution” on your agenda for discussion tonight? Good or bad call? Impact on the campaign? His place in history?

kesmarn : Anyone remember the “Back to the Future” character? Was it Biff? Marty McFly’s nemesis? That’s my view of Romney now.

choicelady : Bourne – I knew I probably did not take it all in on LDS when I once met a Puerto Rican pro-choice Mormon. Most of the LDS women I’ve EVER met are pro-choice. So I’m not a good judge – I’ve me only the ‘worldly’ ones, LOL!!!

AdLib : Cheers all!

SallyT : I will be happy to close up, AdLib! Have fun!

MurphTheSurf3 : By AdLib……

choicelady : Sabreen – Yes, I’d heard that as well, that Ann was giving cover for the bullying story. I really want PAC ads about his bullying – plant closings, laughing at his father’s moving production away, sneering at service people, etc. – put it, and the poor dog into a single picture about how Romney won’t care about YOU either!

kesmarn : The minute I arrive, you’re leaving AdLiB!!?? Seriously, safe travels.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…the interview as cover makes sense now…I did not get the “Mitt is a prankster” gambit until now. Well done.

AdLib : Hey all, sorry but I have to run to the airport for a pickup! Please keep Vox rolling and Sally, don’t forget to turn out the lights before you leave. Thanks all, wish I could stay!!!

SallyT : Sabreen, I did tell that earlier about the interview that the Romneys had a heads up and that was early damage control.

Sabreen60 : Hi Kes!

MurphTheSurf3 : Hey kes

kesmarn : Good evenin’ all. Got early parole from work tonight! YAY! How’s everyone?

choicelady : Bourne and AdLib – yes, it’s as if he’s missing every shred of superego that connects you to something moral and good. Nope – not there.

BourneID : Cl and Murph – re the LDS. I agree the families are nice but I don’t think that individuality is encouraged. I’m probably completely wrong, and yes they are really good people but the family didn’t engage in any of our social activities.

SallyT : The protection of the church in SLC is very strong.

Sabreen60 : Hi CL, I’m ok. Just trying to process all the news this week. This much I know – Romney is a douche. I read where someone mentioned (I’m not going back thru all the comments) about Ann saying Romney was still a “crazy guy”. From what I understand, WaPo had been working on the bullying story for weeks and the Romneys found out about it. Remember the interview when she wore the $1000 t-shirt? Well her comments about Mitt being a prankster and how he was still the crazy guy he was when he was in school was to give cover for the story.

choicelady : Sally – Oy! That’s horrible and scary! Only LDS folks I know are isolated from “the pack”, so maybe it makes a difference? They all seem pretty nice.

AdLib : Bourne – I like that phrase for Romney, “unfinished”. He is missing a part of what makes someone a healthy human being.

SallyT : I lived there for 8 years and I can tell you this with all honesty that 1 out of 8 women I met had been sexually abused by a member of their family. They have a special section in the state prison in Provo for those that are accused. Many never are.

BourneID : Hey MTS, no the elinks isn’t familiar but I want to see more of it. I’m collecting quite a lot of new resources.

choicelady : Anyone – when Air America was on, they had a mock British Music Hall song supposedly sung by an upper class twit who was singing “Sorry” for torture and other US acts of aggression. It was incredibly AWFUL and incredibly funny all at the same time. Anyone know it? I’d love to find the words.

SallyT : SLC is where you will see the true effect of Mormons.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…another reference but the story has some differing details. «link»

AdLib : Murph – I heard the same story about Mitt offering a dollar. What else would a greedy SOB do?

choicelady : AdLib – yes, that’s right, he did chuckle! I’m telling you – this man is a sociopath.

BourneID : MTS One of our agents was LDS and his teenage daughters used to work for me doing cleaning and so on because they wanted to earn money for Christmas. I can’t describe the odd sense I had that something is missing – the same thing I said in a post to you today; Mitt will never grow into a President as others have and I think I said, He’s unfinished – like there’s a part that is not fully functionin. it’s strange. I used to stop in Salt Lake City enroute to Okalahom and east when I worked for the feds; I was fascinated that everyone in the airport behaved the same;almost dazed.

choicelady : Murph – I think LDS families are like any other – highly variable with their kids. The few LDS families I know are quite nice, and the kids are very cheerful. Big contrast with about a dozen very LITTLE kids who were Jehovah’s Witnesses I met at a funeral. Those kids were creepy well behaved. Sat still for an HOUR at ages 4-8. That was horrible, because you don’t get that behavior without massive terrorism toward them.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…does this look familiar? «link»

AdLib : CL – Mitt CHUCKLED as he recalled his assault on that kid. Chuckled! He is seriously messed up.

SallyT : Well, he is too late in his sorry as the boy/man died a few years ago.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…have you found a description of that one dollar incident in the press anywhere….if not….could you write it up with all of the details of the rally…I would love to have it for my quiver.

choicelady : Sally – I was interested in how ALL the others involved in that haircutting incident were ashamed, and yes, Mitt “does not even remember his wild and crazy youth and by the way if anyone was offended? Sorry. Now get over it.”

choicelady : Hey Sabreen! How ARE you?

BourneID : MTS I wonder if there is an image when he looks in the mirror. I think I told you about his being at a rally in a small midwestern town where he talked to a famly that just lost its home and job; their 8 or 9 old boy was standing by Mitt, who took out his wallet, searched through a fat bunder of bills and pulled out $1.00 an gave it to the child. The most disgusting display I’ve seen ever…

choicelady : Murph – just noticed what you’d said. Yes the name is from a Bible verse about the “Watchmen on the wall…” who do, something, something, something. (I am really the wrong person to quote Bible stuff, never mind my employment!) They see themselves as THE defenders of God, country, pierogi pie. It really IS a global conspiracy – they are every damn where.

SallyT : I have to say it says alot that the other guys involved in the bullying have felt bad about it ever since. One even finding the boy years later to say he was sorry about it. Romney claims not to remember it and laughs at the story when asked about it. That tells me a lot about Romney.

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

MurphTheSurf3 : ANYONE…any idea how Latter Day Saints discipline their kids? I am trying to figure out if the veneer of civility is part of the general “everything is nice” and “smile, smile, smile” cover that the Broadway Show “Book of Mormon” mocks.

AdLib : CL – I see the same thing and was thinking of writing a post about ROmney seeming to be sociopathic. Not in a serial killer way but in the way of many in the financial industry, they’re attracted to it, who destroyed this nation’s economy out of greed. I think sociopathy has been gaining ground and Mitt is the perfect embodyment of it.

choicelady : Bourne – they are sponsored by others in their churches. They do assume financial responsibility for them and then claim they are “persecuted Christians” so they get asylum. When same sex marriage was briefly legal, a bunch of them were across from County hall raising hell. They will be picketing the Gay Pride Parade – and I lead it with my pro-GLBT faith organization’s sign. They often put me up front because I’m used to the harassment. I deflect the body blows. And I am NOT making that up. Last two years though, they were not even along the parade route, so I hope that’s true this year, too.

Sabreen60 : Hi everyone! Some week, huh?

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- SH’s comparison are always going to be ad absurdum – Barack’s wild oats involved drug use, poor grades and flirtation with black nationalism….a ll of which he documented in his own writing…This Romney thing is different….I truly do not know what it really means…..Romney has as CL said worked hard on his image, but is the image a coverup….

BourneID : MtS, if there’s anything I know how to do, it’s scope out the best places to shop. When I left Asia, my colleagues predicted their economy would plunge. World markets depend on me (and VISA and Master card – God bless them). Of course I bank with Chase so I’m not smart after all.

choicelady : AdLib – thank you, thank you. I practice psychoanalysis quite freely without a license. After years of dealing on the streets with the “lower sorts” who are his equivalent, I see NO diffeence between him and members of Operation Rescue. He just has better clothes.

BourneID : CL I didn’t know that; how do they get them into the country? Is this true – the Ukrainians?

SallyT : I heard that the Romney’s had a heads up that this story was coming out and that is why Mrs Romney went on and talked about how crazy he was when he was young.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL..Watchmen on the Wall! Yikes…Sounds like the title of the next Avengers film.

AdLib : CL – Wow, you really nailed Romney down! I agree completely!

choicelady : Bourne – those folks from the Ukraine may be members of the “Watchmen on the Wall” rabid anti-gay Pentecostals brought here to insert themselves into anti-gay, anti-abortion politics. Scary folks.

BourneID : Hey MTS just saw Sean Hannity comparing the bully/haircut thing with the Pres saying in an interview that he had some wild days as a kid. Of course SH is stunned that anyone would not see how much worse Barack is. What station am I watching – it’s not Fox why is hannity on.

AdLib : Sally – Cruelty to the handicapped, minorities and animals. As Bito mentioned, there is a psychology associated with that.

choicelady : ADLib – I heard he held the door closed and let the teacher walk into it. Tonight on PBS Evening News, Brooks said that as an adult Romney wasn’t known as anything but a nice guy. Oh? He shuts plants, laughs at people’s anguish about it, loves to FIRE people who provide him service, and yes – the dog. He is, I honestly believe this, a sociopath who has learned to put a veneer of respectability on it with his peers. His disdain of working people, women, minorities is sheer bullying. It’s bred in his bones.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- Patriotic Purchasing requires both knowing where to shop and where not to…looks like you scoped it out.

SallyT : AdLib, it was a closed door. Romney held the first door open for him and left the second one closed and laughed about it. The teacher let it pass.

AdLib : Murph – The whole financial world is about being bullies and assholes. Ganging up on others, taking advantage of the weak, I don’t think ROmney could have ended up doing anything else.

BourneID : Thanks CL’ I will spend all the money necessary for my country. The fact i love to shop is not an incentive. I also use only local srvice buesiness (plumber, etc) and seldome shop at Walmart. At the one nearest me almost all the employees are from he Ukraine.

AdLib : Did you hear how another of young Romney’s “pranks” was leading a blind teacher into a closed door or closet?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…The Bully Boy behavior certainly finds its grown up reflection in the work of Bain Capital…Bane indeed…I wonder. Kids can be cruel and 18 is still being a kid…I went to prep like Cranbrook and the culture is very Lord of the Flies…

SallyT : Bill Maher said that after the hearing about what Romney did to that poor boy in school, his dog said, “And i thought I had it bad!”

choicelady : Bourne – I have to laugh about the Sunday closing because I assume it was OWNED BY RW RELIGIOUS FREAKS!!! Shows one should NOT make judgments! I’m not sure how I feel about Sunday closings. Just so I can get wine. I got Blue Lawed to death in MA some years ago. I’ll ponder that.

BourneID : CL I have great respect for Buffet. There’s something else that attracts me to the store – it’s closed on Sunday. What a great thing if all stores did that – maybe we’d come back to some of our famil traditions.

AdLib : So folks, what do you think, is Romney’s image as a bully going to stick?

choicelady : Bourne – may I doff my hat, if I had a hat, to you for going hog wild spending to support the economy and screw with GOP minds. VERY noble of you to make that sacrifice.

choicelady : Bourne – I did NOT know Buffet owned it! I once owned ONE share of his B stock (can’t remotely afford one of his A stock) and my aunt and uncle both knew him a little. He’s well worth patronizing. Good for you!

AdLib : Murph – It would have to be coordinated and that’s fighting words to OWS folks.

choicelady : AdLib – yes, it helps keep the arthritis at bay wrapping my hands around the necks of people WHO ARE MAKING ME CRAZY. No one seems eager to volunteer, however.

BourneID : CL, I bought everything at RC Willey in Rocklin; love that place; owned by Buffet, you know, so I’m sort of hanging with billionairs these days. It’s a great store and I got my refrig there, went past the electronics dept and picked up a 60″plasma TV which didn’t need but wanted…I’m doind all I can to defeat the GOP hunger games by spending and helping the economy.

AdLib : CL – Choking is actually good exercise for your hands.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- just read through it. Well thought out….but at the end the call to take to the streets…..WHEN , WHERE, HOW…aye, there’s the rub.

choicelady : Murph – very cool, thank you. And thank you Kalima!

choicelady : ADLib – “and I CANNOT choke the living shit…” Obviously getting up at 4 am is NOT my best thing.

AdLib : Murph – The link works.

choicelady : AdLib – not a problem. It means now I’m distracted and choke the living shit out of the guy I told you about. Of course he’s down in Santa Clara, so he’s pretty safe.

SallyT : Oh, AdLib, eat the apple! I spiked everyones drinks!

BourneID : CL, excellent area

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…see if this posts correctly. Kalima’s OWS Global Manifesto is at «link»

choicelady : Oh Bourne – I’m sorry! I hope you found one of the “bundled” purchases for appliances. Sac Bee has ads at least once a week for really good prices. But I’m about to do the same – our refrigerator is making VERY alarming rattling noises! Yikes! Problem = we JUST bought a new dishwasher so don’t want to replace it all.

AdLib : CL – Not at all, Kalima is an angel!

AdLib : CL – Good stuff! Wish you didn’t have to hassle with that.

BourneID : CL it has been very hot; and I have a poltergeist in my attic I guess because my A/C isn’t working well. All my appliances have died so I buy all new (Of course, I really wanted to)…so between Whirlpool and the Obama collection plate, I’m once again poor.

choicelady : AdLib! Saying Kalima’s apple is making you sleepy is implying Kalima’s the Wicked Witch!

choicelady : Hey AdLib – how are you? I’m still editing the runic marks in HOPE. Should get it and the additions to Irene next week.

AdLib : Seeya, Kalima! Tasty apple, BTW…why do I feel so sleepy…

choicelady : Bourne – down in Santa Clara where it’s considerably cooler.

choicelady : Kalima – nice to see you, however briefly!

BourneID : Hi CL; where were you?

Kalima : Ok all, have to start to work, have fun and I’ll catch you later. Sayonara.

choicelady : Hi Bourne – is it hot over on your side of town, too? Can’t quite get used to it. Actually I NEVER get used to it, and this isn’t bad.

AdLib : Hey CL! Nice to see you too!

AdLib : What OWS insists is unnecessary is their main obstacle. No movement I’m aware of has ever been devoid of identifiable leaders or martyrs. When people think they can re-invent the wheel in a different shape, keep your head down.

BourneID : BTW MTS, have you noticed how quiet I am tonight? I told you if I signed on I wouldn’t stop talking…fair warning all.

choicelady : Hi everyone! Back from a VERY long day (on the road at 5 am) so I might not hang in very long. Good to see everyone.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kalima…will do…need some inspiration tonight.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…some systems cannot tolerate the arts…..lalala!

Kalima : Murph, go to MB, you will find at the top of the thread.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- It is hard to capture what Occupy is or is not organizationally . There is a group from several cities with which my group has contact but it is hard to call their gatherings “meetings.”

SallyT : Yes Bourne and the system crashed!

AdLib : Murph – It takes far more creative and visionary planning to outsmart the status quo and that requires not having 20 cooks in the kitchen.

Kalima : AdLib, you are my friend, you can eat it.

BourneID : Shy Sally T? Didn’t you come online singing?

AdLib : Kalima – So I should or shouldn’t eat the apple you gave me?

BourneID : I know Murph. The police were/ae out of control. Don’t like seeing Arpaio types in Oakland and Davis but there they were. Does OWS have meetings? Whats your role in this and many of you meet? I’m interested.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kalima tried the longer version and the server could not connect…ian.co .uk/commen tisfree/2012/may /11/occupy-globa lmay-manifesto Really interested in what you have here.

AdLib : I don’t think OWS is over but they had the spotlight and their moment, it’s hard to recapture that…especiall y when the media is bent on ignoring everything they do.

Kalima : Can’t stay long, my broomstick is charged.

AdLib : Hey Kalima! What a treat to see you here!

MurphTheSurf3 : Kalima…the link you left is for «link»

SallyT : Bourne, that’s okay. It takes awhile for me to get noticed. I am so shy.

Kalima : It’s coming up to lunchtime Murph.

BourneID : Hi Sally – just saw your greeting. I am always about 20 lines behind; be patient.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kalima…hello from MB to Vox…long day for you…yes?

Kalima : The ‘GlobalMay manifesto’ of the Occupy movement The global Occupy movement wants a better world. Such a world is possible, and here’s how «link» ian.co.uk/commen tisfree/2012/may /11/occupy-globa lmay-manifesto

Kalima : From MB this morning.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- The police took advantage of the lack of organization, the shrinking numbers, the presence of radical elements to push what had become a ragtag group out of parks. It was all so anti-climatic.

BourneID : Murph, re OWS, don’t you think the aggressive action of law enforcement stopped them cold? I’m still p..sd off over the UC Davis fiasco. Not acceptable – there’s a tremendous about of sympathy for the movement.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- They have no agenda when they meet so that is the first order of business (or rather disorder). It takes forever because they argue about what they are going to talk about and then do not have time to talk about it. Order in the meetings no longer follows the rules for interaction they used in the first few months. AND things quickly get personal. There were four “protest vets” there and only one of us got a chance to speak (for all of us). We cited the report we did at their requests many months ago (and published here) but that was old news and labeled as “institutional “. So….the elections….the y don’t seem to get it- We lose this one, it is game over for awhile.

AdLib : I don’t dismiss actors and such as not having sharp opinions but in general, I think people here could be just as informed and thoughtful about issues as celebrities.

SallyT : Bill does have Eva Longoria on too and she is sharp on immigration!

AdLib : Bourne – Well…your odds are far better than winning the Mega Millions lottery! Still, the promotions are an important tool for them to keep getting small donations.

BourneID : AL I know about those “possible” dinners with Barack; everytime I click on yes, I’ve apparently made aanother donation. I am now up to 5 separate and still no invitation.

AdLib : Murph – Heh, just expressed the same! When you have a leaderless group, there can’t really be big picture strategic planning, an inherent handicap for OWS.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib The problem for Occupy was that its occupation tactic was not a good one in the long run- great and dramatic for the short term. Had they occupied in the Fall, pulled up stakes for the winter and then planned a huge “March On ????” they could still be relevant. Allowing themselves to shrink as they did and then hobble toward winter gave the police the opportunity they wanted. Bad tactics.

SallyT : Murph, are they talking about the election or just bicker over nothing important.

AdLib : Bourne – Hey, thought you were a Maher level high roller at $450/mo! Obama does keep having “bonus” contribution things, maybe a smaller donor dinner will be in the cards. There were some at Clooney’s, it was a lottery like thing, some regular folks who contributed were selected to attend.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- I hope Occupy can rediscover (or even discover) a purpose and then look to those with some meaningful experience in organizing grand events. All they do at their meetings is bicker.

AdLib : Murph – I am concerned that OWS has lost momentum it may not be able to recapture. Not of their own doing, they had the private armies…er…ci ty police forces coordinating on snuffing out their protests. They do need a second chapter here and that requires more strategic planning.

BourneID : AL correct the figure; $50 a month. I sit in the dark so it’s a crap shoot for me to get a message out.

SallyT : Oh, he just cut him off!

SallyT : AdLib, Bill can’t get Norquist to shutup.

MurphTheSurf3 : David Cay Johnston and Grover Norquist on Maher- I will watch later. Wonder how that will go?

BourneID : AL I missed it too. I wonder if there’s a plan to have fundraiser for those of us who contribute 450 a month…Would be nice. MTS, Avengers looks interesting but I want to see the new Johnny Deppe movie…OMG, Sean Hannity is on talking the Pres…

SallyT : Murph, I think we will see more from OWS once school is out. Maybe?

SallyT : And Bourne!

SallyT : Hello Murph!

AdLib : Murph – Planning on taking my daughter to see Avengers. I liked superheroes and comics as a kid but the “stories” for most of these films is the same redundant, shallow stuff.

AdLib : Hey Murph!

AdLib : Hey Bourne! Didn’t have the $40,000 to go but it wasn’t that far from me, some streets shut down and the Pres within 20 miles.

SallyT : AdLib went and peeped in the window.

MurphTheSurf3 : Good evening – just came from seeing The Avengers: It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing. BUT, it was perfect after an afternoon with the Occupy folks in the area. Nothing will come of the group I fear.

BourneID : Hello everyone. Signing on tonight; I’ve sitting on the sideline last 2 VPs eavesdropping. Anyone go to the fundraiser at George’s house last night? Bourne

SallyT : Oh, let them get a few into them. They are more fun that way!

AdLib : They’re all bunched up around the bar, figures. HEY! Leave a little vodka for us!

SallyT : I see them coming!

AdLib : The site had another hiccup right at 7 pm so it may have delayed people. It happened last week, I’ve got the tech boys working on it…meaning me and our web host!

SallyT : They are holding to your uninterrupted of them tonight, AdLib.

SallyT : Where is everyone else? It is usually just you and me at the end, not the beginning.

AdLib : I wouldn’t mind if you could have an honest and reasonable discussion with Repubs but they just spew the same obnoxious talking points, never listen and always lie. What’s the point of talking with them?

SallyT : But, watch the first 5 mins because he interviews Richard Clarke and he was good!

SallyT : David Cay Johnston and Bill are out numbered.

AdLib : Wasn’t Ann Coulter available?

SallyT : And Margaret Hoover!

AdLib : Why??? What’s the point?

SallyT : He had Norquist on!!

AdLib : Thanks for the heads up!

SallyT : Bill Maher is already sucking!

SallyT : Okay, I think.

AdLib : And what’s your next song?

AdLib : Hey Sally! How are you this evening?

SallyT : Where did everyone go? Was it my singing????

AdLib : Or at least claim credit for the auto bailout…

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!