Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PT. Hope to see you then!
AdLib7 hours ago
Hey TW! I’m warming myself on the red hot anger acorss the country at Schumer and the other 9 Dem Senators who betrayed us.
AdLib5 hours ago
Well, what can you expect? He said he can take the heat as it is said, ‘let it be written, let it be so.”
twilson117
5 hours ago
He what happen to my emjoi?
twilson117
5 hours ago
What a “brave” man, he chooses to take the heat from most Dem voters and politicians instead of from Trump. Coward and a liar, I’ve said for years Schumer is awful and corrupt and when he has a chance, he always proves it as true.
AdLib5 hours ago
I don’t know why your emoji is missing…wait there it is!
AdLib5 hours ago
Well, dems would catch hell from the Repugs no matter how you look at it. The would have blamed dems for the shut down but I’m not going to disagree with you on Shummer
twilson117
5 hours ago
Schumer worked with House Dems and they all agreed to vote no but after the House Dems stuck their necks out as agreed, Schumer betrayed them and voted yes. He is such a little weasel. What will be interesting is if CL is here tonight, she’s on the other side of the issue and thinks Schumer did the right thing.
AdLib5 hours ago
TW – Any Dems who thought voting yes would keep Repubs from blaming them for any and all bad things that happen in the country are morons.
AdLib5 hours ago
On Bluesky, people are hopping mad.
AdLib5 hours ago
The you know what is hitting the fan and it is not pretty at all. Repugs are getting an ear full from their constituent’s as they should
twilson117
5 hours ago
I saw a video of a townhall where a veteran screamed angrily at the Repub Rep and much of the audience cheered him.
AdLib5 hours ago
Haven’t been on bluesky just finish reading a 40 page paper on Yarvin and company and these guys are whackos all the way.
twilson117
5 hours ago
What stood out the most to you in the article?
AdLib5 hours ago
That they want to destroy democracy and replace it with an autocratic form government essentially run by business people. But, I’m still fleshing it out trying figure out what I can use for some articles.
twilson117
5 hours ago
Hey Kong and Godzila doesn’t to be showing do I need to reload it?
twilson117
5 hours ago
Yes, I understand that they believe democracy is an obstacle to the wealthy controlling everything but they use BS terms and projections to claim it would be a utopia if democracy was destroyed. The one thing they don’t say is that it will be a utopia for the wealthy and indentured servitude for the 99%.
AdLib5 hours ago
Hi Ad and RW-
choicelady
5 hours ago
Reload Kong and Godzilla?
AdLib5 hours ago
BS is indeed what it is.
twilson117
5 hours ago
Hey CL!
AdLib5 hours ago
Hey CL
twilson117
5 hours ago
FYI, my daughter pitched a 4-3 win yesterday and got a save in the second game today…between rainstorms and in 40 degree weather!
AdLib5 hours ago
How are you all tonight? I admire the segue from Yarvin and Musk to Kong and Godzilla the distance between the two groups not being all that great.
choicelady
5 hours ago
And both sets of monsters want to destroy the world.
AdLib5 hours ago
Holy smokes, Ad – they PLAYED up here? We were stormy from 6 am to 1 pm with wind, rain, everything so she’s a MARVEL
choicelady
5 hours ago
I would NOT have made it over – I also don’t see that great in the rain these days.
choicelady
5 hours ago
CL – They fit the games in between rainstorms despite the cold, it rained between games too!
AdLib5 hours ago
Congrats to her!!
choicelady
5 hours ago
Do they play tomorrow? Can’t get over but I do see the weather is better.
choicelady
5 hours ago
CL – I thought it over when they changed the games from Fri and Sat to Thu and Fri but my wife couldn’t go on the changed schedule and did I really want to fly and drive through the rain and sit in it and the cold by myself? Had it been Santa Monica beach area, I would have said yes.
AdLib5 hours ago
CL Yarvin is crazy if he thinks authortrianism is the way to go
twilson117
5 hours ago
Well, glad it worked out. Hoping for May to see the championships!
choicelady
5 hours ago
CL – No, they pushed up the games so they played 2 on Thursday and 2 today so they’re done now.
AdLib5 hours ago
Me too!
AdLib5 hours ago
TW – for all of history some egomaniacs think not only is authoritarianism better, but they’d be the Best Ever at it.
choicelady
5 hours ago
Ad good to know. You home?
choicelady
5 hours ago
CL I don’t think they realize they would be the first the face the chopping block as with the case of some many who proceeded them who thought the same way.
twilson117
5 hours ago
So CL, I know you and I have opposing opinions on Schumer and the other 9 Dems voting for the Musk-Trump budget. My question to you and any who thought passing it was the better of two evils, what comes now for the Dems? How can Schumer hope to rebuild any unity after betraying the trust of House Dems who huddled with him before the votes and promised to vote no. The Dems in the House are furious and feel betrayed because he lied to them.
AdLib5 hours ago
TW – they should remember the past. It does not bode well for their future!
choicelady
5 hours ago
CL – Yep, home in rainy LA today, watched the games streaming, nice and warm inside!
AdLib4 hours ago
CL the paper I finished reading today Yarvin like the authortrian rule of Singapore and thinks the US should adopt it, well Singapore is not a model I want to follow for sure
twilson117
4 hours ago
All those House Dems, some of whom took great risk to vote no in solidarity because they’re in Trump-favored districts, feel stabbed in the back after Schumer led them on and they voted no thinking that Schumer would have their back. Instead, they got a knife in the back.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – yes, I am glad it passed. Schumer was courageous to stand against what WOULD have happened – shut down, Musk and Trump eviscerate democracy and functional gov’t without ANY oversight and NEVER open up again. That is in their PLANS. For him to buck the trend was bold. And no, he will never recover because people in America think symbolic “eff you” to the GOP is doing something. The CR is awful but does have a lot of money left, and more to the point, open gov’t lets us SEE what they are doing and fight it. Courts have been very good about pushing back – but a shutdown WOULD negatively impact them after 2 weeks. Democracy does die in darkness. Why court it?
choicelady
4 hours ago
TW – I’m sure Yarvin would have nice things to say anout North Korea too.
AdLib4 hours ago
The House Dems who voted no will survive. He won’t. The Fifth Columnists will see to it.
choicelady
4 hours ago
TW – Yarvin is ignorant of basic economics. Singapore would have no truck with him – he’s way too grotty for their tastes. He and Musk want a kind of autocratic high tech feudalism, and they pay no mind to how feudalism operated and failed.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Did you see Trump bragging about release the water from the reservoir thinking he did a great thing saying you have more water than you know what do with. And as Ad told has made a total mes of things for the farmers in your area. What a dumb SOB and there are people who think he is some kind of genius. My goodness when are people going to wake up.
twilson117
4 hours ago
Ad – only reason Yarvin wouldn’t like NK is that it’s ugly and poor.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Happy to debate the choice between shutdown and approved autocracy but first, are you aware that House Dems and Senate Dems conferenced and Schumer agreed that they should all vote no on the CR. Schumer even announced that just days ago. Then after letting House Dems walk the plank, he flipped and led Dem Senators to vote yes. I’m telling you, the way that Schumer did this has torn the Dem party apart and many Dems are now furious at such a betrayal. He lied to the House Dems. This is going to be a massive problem now.
AdLib4 hours ago
Trump is insane. The water was all wasted. There is a REASON no rivers flow from the north to the south – MOUNTAINS. What an ass.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL yes Yarvin and Musk do believe technology will solve all our problems.
twilson117
4 hours ago
Ad – yes. I do know that he said vote no. Something came to his attention that caused a change. I’m glad of it. He probably did it poorly, but he did it right. I’m not spending a lot of time trashing Dems since we are fighting fascists, and that’s how Weimar Germany fell – infighting.
choicelady
4 hours ago
TW – Exactly, Trump’s forced release of billions of gallons only flooded farmland near where the water was released. Trump is so stupid he thinks North is always uphill from South so if you let water out in the North, it flows to Southern Ca!
AdLib4 hours ago
Tw – tech will solve THEIR problems. Not ours. They are building a Nirvana Tech City about 40 miles S. of me. It’s disgusting.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Well, the water flooded at the base of the mountains, too. That man seriously is too stupid to live.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL I was or should say I am trying to get a handle on what it is people, mainly the rich like him so much, it’s becoming clear now and will allow me to formulate some thoughts around it so I can put a couple of articles together
twilson117
4 hours ago
TW – I don’t think the “like” for Musk is very broad. He’s a threat to regular business.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – The problem is, whether one wants to focus on it or not, Schumer has just blown a massive division in the Dem party by his betrayal of House Dems that will greatly complicate ANY future collaborations between House Dems and Senate Dems becuase Schumer is so damn self-righteous about doing what he’s done. He has destroyed Dem unity and I don’t see an easy path back to it. How does that help the Dem cause in the long run?
AdLib4 hours ago
My stepdaughter works in Silicon Valley. He’s not universally liked there either. Arrogance and ignorance are a bad combo.
choicelady
4 hours ago
And how much does it help Trump and Musk for Schumer to have blown up unity in the Dem party?
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – I don’t disagree with your party assessment. But it is FAR more important right now that we have blockades against Musk and Trump.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad I have no words for Schumer
twilson117
4 hours ago
It doesn’t impact Trump much to have party problems w the Dems. The forces against him ARE unified. Courts will be his nemesis.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Either way, we had the courts as blockades. There are no blockades now with this CR, it cedes congressional power to Trump and Musk.
AdLib4 hours ago
No – if we had shutdown the courts would have been gravely weakened after 2 weeks. I ran that by people who know this stuff. They would have had to shift more limited people power to only criminal cases. It would have ceased to be focused on HIM.
choicelady
4 hours ago
It’s not true fed courts are self sufficient. That’s untrue. Removing funding is a serious blow.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Even if a shutdown might have made things worse in some ways, a hashed out CR could have fixed those things. Now, Musk and Trump have been handed power and autonomy to do so much harm that I wonder what will be left to rescue after September?
AdLib4 hours ago
You can’t hash anything out in a shutdown. A shutdown means Congress is OUT. Nobody home. This is what we forget. The decision to open up is with TRUMP not anyone else, and he would NOT have done it. Maybe ever.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – I appreciate your points about funding needed for the courts. But now, many of these cases have been compromised because this CR cedes the very power at the heart of these suits, to Trump and Musk.
AdLib4 hours ago
Musk and trump are NOT autonomous, and they are complying w court orders – quietly but complying. We have to look beyond the news to find stuff.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – I don’t know, in previous shutdowns, Congress has always been the party to come up with a budget to re-open the country.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – the CR does NOT cede power. It cedes FUNDING as budgets often do. The laws on services are on the books, and failure to provide adequately remains a bond. Budget come and go – the laws remain the same.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad – the worst thing we can think is whatever happened before will happen now. It won’t.
choicelady
4 hours ago
That’s a large part of why Schumer realized belatedly that this isn’t normal. This is really dangerous.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL: “GOP leadership slid language into a House rule on their stopgap funding bill that protects the national emergency Trump used to impose tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China.”
AdLib4 hours ago
Without congress, whatever they did in a shut down is LEGAL. It’s NOT legal now with Congress operating.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – What’s not legal?
AdLib4 hours ago
Tariffs are always the province of some jerky “emergency”. That’s not news.
choicelady
4 hours ago
It’s not legal to dismiss people, gut programs, destroy who agencies and departments. In a shut down the power shifts 100% to the executive. THAT is what Schumer wanted to stop.
choicelady
4 hours ago
We couldn’t even challenge him in court in a shut down.
choicelady
4 hours ago
NEVER give up power! NEVER.
choicelady
4 hours ago
I don’t think I can speak adequately to the shutdown, but it seems to me there is a lot going on that is overloading the system so to speak and it also seems the Repugs don’t care if every thing blows up because they’re going to blame it on Biden and support Trump no matter what because they will get the autocratic government they seem to want
twilson117
4 hours ago
TW – true, but with a functional government we do have the power to push back.
choicelady
4 hours ago
In s shutdown, legally all the power is Trump’s.
choicelady
4 hours ago
BTW – given the town halls, NOBODY in America is buying the “it’s all Biden’s fault” arguments in even VERY red districts.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Schumer just did simultaneously give up power, specifically Congress’ constitutional power ove Tariffs AND has hobbled the Dem Party for the foreseeable future.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – the issue is whether some shift are things we have to live with or TOTAL shift with NO gurantee Trump would give back power. I’m sorry – shutdown was giving up entirely. When you have two choices, WHY pick the more utterly destructive one?
choicelady
4 hours ago
Yes, I saw video of a townhall as I mentioned above, a veteran was yelling at the Repub Rep and much of the crowd cheered him on. As angry as people may be now, as the true impact of all this insanity really devastates people, they will be raging.
AdLib4 hours ago
It is likely, by the way, since it’s open gov’t, that the courts will smash the CR transfer of power.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL I have to ask with the repgugs in charge do we really have a functioning govenment? The have given power to Musk to go in and break things and that is what he is doing. Yes the courts are holding strong, but Trump doesn’t seem to care I see a major disaster heading our way.
twilson117
4 hours ago
Ad – that’s true, and the more furious people get, the more we need SOME functional gov’t to be able to take Trump’s dirty deeds to court.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Tw – the issue is not capability of gov’t but the mere fact it exists. It changes the law.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Just saying, the end-of-America scenario if a budget wasn’t agreed to this week is just an opinion. There are conflicting opinions on that as well as how a simple CR could have been agreed upon in a week or two. It is not an absolute that America would have blown up if this CR wasn’t passed.
AdLib4 hours ago
Keeping Congress even nominally at the helm keeps the law on our side.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – You said above, never give up power then you said we have to live with some shift, can’t have it both ways.
AdLib4 hours ago
Mark my words, the Dem party is now in massive chaos and there will not be unity in the near future. House Dems are seething at the betrayal and broken promise by Schumer and Schumer’s hubris and acting like he’s some great martyr has sealed many Dems opinions of him as unacceptable.
AdLib4 hours ago
I wish they had done the CR, but the Left wouldn’t entertain it. They have a performative scenario. Nothing would have been passed. they have an agenda that isn’t working. But they think it’s GREAT if the GOP, Trump/Musk crash everything then THEY will ride in on white horses and save us. This IS the DSA script. I was in it during the 70s, and it has never changed. It’s the German KPD script – ignore Hitler, let him crash everything, WE will clean it up.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad – He WAS courageous. He did not handle it well, but he WAS courageous and he’s also correct.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Americans are no more prepared to fight fascism now than Germans were in teh 30s. Only the fools in DSA think so.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL what good is the law if Trump ignores it?
twilson117
4 hours ago
CL – DOn’t agree, a clean CR would never have passed in the Repub House or Repub Senate. Blaming the Left doesn’t make sense. How could that have ever gotten passed over the Trump-Musk CR?
AdLib4 hours ago
Tw – He ISN’T ignoring the COURT pushback. They ARE rehiring. They’re being asses about it, but they ARE doing it.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Don’t agree, the term for someone who promises one thing then after others act based on that agreement, breaks that promise is not courageous. It is untrustworthy and “caving”.
AdLib4 hours ago
CL yes for the moment he seems to be not pushing back. But, what if he decides to not follow what the court says were are we then?
twilson117
4 hours ago
I think I misunderstood you. No, the CR from the GOP is awful. And every liberal on Blue Sky thinks voila! We SHOULD have just insisted on a clean CR and somehow MAGICALLY it would pass. Not ONE person can tell me how. That’s the problem – they don’t understand the complexities the GOP have created for America.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – “Constitutional Crisis Intensifies as Lawless Trump Ignores Federal Court Orders “
AdLib4 hours ago
CL – I’m on bluesky too as you know and while I’m sure there are magical thinking Dems who think what Dems favor could have been passed, there are far more Dems, at least among the ones I follow, who are most outraged about Schumer’s betrayal of House Dems, his public statement just days ago that the CR was so bad he couldn’t vote for it then flip-flops and portrays himself as a martyr. The anger and sense of betrayal is real, this is apart from the anger at what’s in the CR. The way Schumer handled this was unprincipled and unbefitting a leader. He needs to go because he will not be respected as a leader by far too many Dems now.
AdLib4 hours ago
TW – judges have the power to arrest his minions who are out in front on these illegal orders. Can’t arrest HIM but can arrest THEM. Courts do not need Marshals – they can delgate local police. Don’t need DOJ. Can hire private attorneys to prosecute. Trump HAS pushed back, and the courts are focusing NOT on him but on the minions. Yesterday the Norther District in CA ordered every single person fired to be rehired and for OPM never to do this again or the heads of agencies acting on their direction. If you didn’t read it, it was SCORCHING in its condemnation. This means a lot – if the minions are the court targets and arrestable for defying a court order, his loyal frontmen are going to give up. They are NOT willing to go to jail for him.
choicelady
4 hours ago
You know – I really don’t care right now about internal Dem politics. The threat is fascism. Schumer stopped the WORST of it. A shut down was the death of our nation starting tomorrow morning. Let’s be focused – the issues internally have far less significance than the disasters emerging from the Oval Office. FOCUS. Internecine battles only distract us WHICH IS WHY TRUMP THANKED SCHUMER. That was NOT what Trump wanted, but he is playing the Dems to break apart. DO NOT GIVE IN.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL I have been trying to get to some of the opinions handed down by the court that have been reported out by the folks over at Meidias Touch Network but haven’t been able to do so as yet.
twilson117
4 hours ago
I think you’d have more luck with Marc Elias’s Democracy Docket or some other legal-specific sites.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – I hope you’re right but it is too early to know yet if Trump actually will follow the court orders and reinstate the fired people as the courts have ordered. Trump, Musk, Vance, and others have been laying the groundwork for Trump to “justifiably” ignore court orders on the grounds that they are usurping his Article 2 powers. Why would they be pushing this so much at this point? Hard to imagine they won’t just declare the courts have no constitutional right to tell the president what to do.
AdLib4 hours ago
I have seen NOTHING on the amazing ruling in N. CA from yesterday. But I read it, and it just was EXPLOSIVE.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad – he is following court orders. Maddow last night had a whole segment on people returning to work NOT due to the N.CA ruling but others. He’s paying out – slowly – the money he tried to impound. We have lousy media so it’s not mainstream.I get a lot from Elias.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Please, I am not upset at Schumer because I needed Trump to make me upset at him. And why does it matter if Dems are being torn apart? Because they are the only vehicle for taking power away from Trump/Musk/Repubs and bringing it back to the people. With a hobbled Dem party, elections can be lost and the Trump regime could continue farther and farther into the future.
AdLib4 hours ago
Well we are indeed living in interesting times. And democracy is being tested in some very novel ways. And the fight has started at the lower courts and they are standing fast and firm, the question is, if any of this gets to the SC will they stand for democracy or have we lost them?
twilson117
4 hours ago
This will never be a one and done. This will go on piece by piece for however long we have to do it. But the courts ARE forcing pushback. And now Elon has to show up in court and tell EXACTLY what he has done with documents. HE has to testify – because at the mini SOTU, Trump outed him. He now has to bring “what did you do last week” documentation to court.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – BTW. both Marc Elias and the Meidas folks advocated voting no on this bill. Strong legal minds disagree on things sometimes, even when on the same side of the political divide.
AdLib4 hours ago
The Dems will be solidary where it counts and unravel as they always have politically.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – I read that many employees being brought back are not due to court orders but because the DOGE MORONS fired people they need to keep working in critical areas.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – irrelevant to me who said what. Initially I was for shut down until I began reading the Musk side and saw what a disaster it would be. Everyone advocating for shut down speaks of “when we open up” without at all seeing that we damned well just might NOT.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad – that would be partly true and partly not – a lot of it is courts. Some of it is “oops”.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – From NBC News: “Trump administration accused of sidestepping court rulings amid spree of legal losses”
AdLib4 hours ago
Of course he is. Who said he’d comply nicely? So what – he IS complying. Nastily, grudgingly – but his minions will be the ones found in contempt, and they will not be happy about it.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad do you think Trump gives a damn?
twilson117
4 hours ago
TW – The SCOTUS has taken up Trump’s appeal to allow him to violate the 14th Amendment and just the fact that they’s taken it up instead of rejecting it immediately, gives me great concern that the Constitution may just be torn up in plain sight.
AdLib4 hours ago
CL – Now that is something I am really looking forward to, how Musk will try to refuse to show up in court as ordered and refuse to provide discovery info on DOGE.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad I hear you, but how would the ok that under orgininalism when it was orginally written in the Constitution.
twilson117
4 hours ago
Ad – taking it up makes it starkly clear. Their rulings – 5-4 – are all uniform. Textualism matters. They can reject interpretations but not violations of actual TEXTS.
choicelady
4 hours ago
It will be hard for Musk to weasel out. And that’s when he can be arrested.
choicelady
4 hours ago
But CL – You have to admit that the worry that the government would never open up again if it shut down is just a fear, not a fact.
AdLib4 hours ago
No – it’s based on law. Under shut down, the president gains powers of uniformity that can overcome the Congress. That’s not a fear – that’s WHAT THEY SAID they were counting on. I read THEM because they actually hide NOTHING. They’re brazen.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – “Sidestepping” court rulings specifically means he is not complying with court orders.
AdLib4 hours ago
I see shades of Grover Norquist who wanted to drown government in the bathtub
twilson117
4 hours ago
That IS going to happen through appeals. But when he gets slammed, he has grudgingly – like a kid dragging feet to his time out – complied.
choicelady
4 hours ago
Tw – you aren’t wrong!!! Norquist said how happy he is that Trump and Musk are gutting government.
choicelady
4 hours ago
TW – We have seen rulings from the SCOTUS where they literally ignore the actual text of the law and others, like presidential immunity, where they make up a “constitutional” power out of thin air. They don’t care about the law, just their agenda. They perjured themselves during their hearings, that is what we’re dealing with. Dishonest, agenda-driven frauds.
AdLib4 hours ago
There are no guarantees, no. But if we shut down, the law abetted total take over by Trump.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Trump has declared that protesters against Tesla and Musk will be deemed domestic terrorists. What do you think he’ll declare a judge who arrests Musk for contempt for not showing up to court. And I can’t imagine the number of death threats that would come.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad – that is NOT what happened last June in the immunity ruling. They qualified it, gave themselves the power to decide what is “official business”. I was appalled until I read it. It’s not a gift of immunity at all. It’s a presumption until otherwise disproven BY THEM. And by no means is everything included in it that Trump does.
choicelady
4 hours ago
What I take from this constructive debate is we’re smarter than Johnson, Trump and all the Repugs
twilson117
4 hours ago
Ad – so what? Seriously – SO WHAT? Judges have death threats DAILY. The judge in the case I had in Buffalo STILL has armed guards 30 years later.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – But without a budget, a president still would not have the funds to do whatever he wants. A government shutdown does not permit a cancellation of Article 1.
AdLib4 hours ago
Tw – well, of COURSE we’re smarter!
choicelady
4 hours ago
Ad – since when would Trump need a budget? He has used our nation as his personal ATM for most of term one and now this one. BUDGET? Surely you jest!
choicelady
4 hours ago
This is WAY beyond normal, Ad. Get a president who day one 2017 refused to sequester his family business, it was all downhill from there. He just does what he wants, and in shutdown he would impound funds and divert them to his own uses.
choicelady
4 hours ago
CL – Once again, criminal immunity for a president is not in the Constitution. There were zero constitutional grounds, it was de facto, the SCOTUS creating a presidential power out of thin air. That is not legal.
AdLib4 hours ago
TW – I would say CL is smarter than 99% of people and I try to be like her.
AdLib4 hours ago
Ad, I’m not touching that
twilson117
4 hours ago
That depended ENTIRELY on how SCOTUS read the act – official or unofficial. He is NOT criminally immune from unofficial acts that can include stuff like Watergate, etc. If you haven’t read it, try to. It’s not blanket protection at all.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – As you’ve said, the courts step in to stop Trump from uncostitutional behavior. Why would that be any different after a shutdown?
AdLib3 hours ago
Not at all – I come here because everyone is equally smart.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Well I will have to go back and read the decision on immunity
twilson117
3 hours ago
CL – Once again, there is NOTHING in the Constitution that provides ANY criminal immunity for a president. Nothing. Only civil suit protections. They created a criminal immunity right from thin air.
AdLib3 hours ago
After a shut down, courts are seriously affected by the loss of “exempt” employees who run the system. They would be on reduced dockets that would move to criminal cases not civil ones. Reduced staff, reduced hours. They have a private source of funds, but it’s not great. It is a weakened court system even thought it functionas.
choicelady
3 hours ago
But I will say this, the direction Repugs are taking the country is scary and they seem hell bent on dismantling what we have.
twilson117
3 hours ago
CL – I understand, it would not have been ideal for courts to operate without a budget in place but you would agree that they still could operate, especially in egregious instances.
AdLib3 hours ago
Ad – based on precedent, official acts such as declarations of war, have been, a priori, assumed to be non criminal. Lots of things aren’t in the Constitution but are inferred from the texts. There is not one word about the right to private property or the right to have a corporation. And yet, here we are.
choicelady
3 hours ago
TW – It seems like the idea is to destroy a functioning government as quickly as possible so even when people and courts try to correct it, the damage is permanent.
AdLib3 hours ago
Ad – they would shift their practice to CRIMINAL cases and not civil ones. All the stuff against Trump is civil.
choicelady
3 hours ago
What’s the line from Shakespeare “first kill all the lawyers”
twilson117
3 hours ago
Tw – that is what fascists do. They want to destroy us, and they may succeed. But they would have done it fast if Musk and Trump were not subject to oversight during a shuttered gov’t.
choicelady
3 hours ago
WHO would be witnesses against Musk and his Bros? Nobody would be in offices to see what he did.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Tw – unless you’re Alina Habab
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – I follow you that a right to privacy may be the basis for rights to private property but you’ll have to point out to me what is the basis for SCOTUS to claim that the Founders wanted a president to be protected to act as a criminal? It seems as far from what the Founders wrote as I could imagine.
AdLib3 hours ago
Cl Is she really a lawyer?
twilson117
3 hours ago
No – you are SO missing the point on the actual immunity issue. NO. He does not get immunity for standing on 5th Ave and shooting someone. It’s that if he directs a fairly normal operation that someone protests is illegal, the presumption is that an official act is not illegal.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – So now that the CR has passed, what would you guess Schumer is going to do to “continue the fight”?
AdLib3 hours ago
TW – well she SAYS she is…
choicelady
3 hours ago
Ad – I don’t know. We are pretty powerless legislatively.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Cl well she didn’t prove it when defending Frump she lost all her cases
twilson117
3 hours ago
Ad – on immunity. LOTS of people think the Japanese American internments were illegal. At the time, no Geneva Convention, they were not. FDR would thus have a grant of immunity for that order. Now, he wouldn’t.
choicelady
3 hours ago
TW – well, you know the joke about her? “Alina Habab (sp?) is my attorney and pled my traffic ticket down to first degree murder.”
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – The ruling by SCOTUS was that any crime committed while performing an official act can’t be criminally prosecuted. For example, even in the hearing, it was said that if Trump ordered Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival, he could not be prosecuted because he committed the act under an official power. It was agreed to by Trump’s lawyer and the justices who ruled in favor of immunity never disputed that.
AdLib3 hours ago
CL I haven’t heard that one 
twilson117
3 hours ago
Ad – that argument was from the opposition and never part of the ruling. No, he can’t order that, but could Obama be prosecuted for the death of the US citizen working for Al Q’aeda? That’s the issue.
choicelady
3 hours ago
TW – that’s the thing you have to know about Alina. DO NOT HIRE HER!!! You’ll do life!
choicelady
3 hours ago
What SCOTUS said is that they reserved the right to decide what acts were official but they stated clearly that any crime committed during an act affirmed as official could not be criminally prosecuted.
AdLib3 hours ago
Ad – reference Obama and the death of that US citizen. That’s the kind of thing.
choicelady
3 hours ago
And clueless Roberts was shocked that the country didn’t applaud his deranged ruling.
AdLib3 hours ago
If you haven’t read the decision, it’s a whole lot less gross than it sounds.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Well, everybody thinks it’s free pass, and it’s NOT. Even stupid Trump thinks it’s a free pass. It is NOT.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – I read it and that is what worries me greatly. The trigger mechanism is whether an act is made as part of a president’s official capacity, NOT if the act was heinous. That is very worrisome.
AdLib3 hours ago
It is indeed a free pass IF the crime was committed within an official act.
AdLib3 hours ago
Well, most of it is based on actions not otherwise covered by laws prohibiting them. It’s not a free pass.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL I’m goint to follow your advice down load the decision and read it carefully and prehaps we can discuss it next week?
twilson117
3 hours ago
Not if the court says it’s outside the bounds.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Next two weeks I won’t be here. Funeral for my brother in law next week followed IMMEDIATELY by a trip to Ashland OR. Home ONE day, clean clothes, off we go.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Sorry about your brother in law,
twilson117
3 hours ago
Well, dear friends, I’m fading out. I will be back in three weeks. Keep your fingers crossed on the flight to and from DC.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – Right, if the court says an act is outside the bounds of an official act, he could be prosecuted.
AdLib3 hours ago
But I still plan to read and we can discuss when it’s convenient
twilson117
3 hours ago
Thank you, TW. We loved him. He was one of two brothers Greg “found” in 2017. We were all very close, and this is hard, esp. for Greg.
choicelady
3 hours ago
CL – Sorry about your brother-in-law. Hope your trip goes well.
AdLib3 hours ago
Have a good couple of weeks. We will try to prevail after all this. I think the week we come home will be mostly sleep!!! Good night, good weekend, see you as soon as I can.
choicelady
3 hours ago
Take CL
twilson117
3 hours ago
Stay safe, CL! It’s a bit more nerve wracking flying with the air traffic system being gutted.
AdLib3 hours ago
Are you up for a chat?
AdLib3 hours ago
I will call in 5
twilson117
3 hours ago
ok
AdLib3 hours ago
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