Vox Populi – 2-26-2010

AdLib : Cheers Patsy!

PatsyT : Another Great Vox Populi Thanks all !!

AdLib : Looks like we’ve reached the end of tonight’s edition of Vox Populi. Thank you all for being a part of it, a lot of fun and some interesting ideas. The chat can continue at the AfterChat article, click this link to go there: «link»

Blues Tiger : I think it got overshadowed quickly by Utahs abortion crap

PatsyT : Give Bloom energy a goggle lots of info there

PatsyT : OK well then I will have to go back in history and push those buttons

AdLib : Duh!

AdLib : OH!!! I saw that, I was thinking it was some investment group or think tank like the ones we were discussing!

Blues Tiger : Dang AdLib I posted a link and announced It’s Bloom Box Day the other day

AdLib : Patsy – It was 1 or 2 weeks ago, you were “on”.

AdLib : Bloom box?

Blues Tiger : I am trying to keep up on the Bloom Box Patsy…

Chernynkaya : Nothing Patsy. Just the idea of comedy wins. Unions. Health care ins. the whole thing. Oh, too hard in this format!

PatsyT : Bloom box that is one to follow …

PatsyT : What did I say that was so funny ??

PatsyT : I have ideas when do you guys want to take it to the next step?

Chernynkaya : Right– forgot about independently wealthy nellie.

Blues Tiger : What is the name of the Guy who first funded Google ,E-Bay and the Bloom Box? He might be someone who would invest…

PatsyT : Nellie where for art thou ?

AdLib : Hey, maybe Nellie can finance this, I hear her website is worth $125 million!

Chernynkaya : Thanks Pats I always go for comedy!! Can’;t you tell?

PatsyT : You know you can make a down and dirty vid and get all the street cred if it is hitting home you do not need a big backing at least to start with

Chernynkaya : Yes–mmentioned him below– and david geffin– into medicine. Do a search Chronicle of Philanthropy to start.

AdLib : Patsy! You make me laugh and I’m a tough audience!

AdLib : Maybe someone like Soros would be a good candidate?

PatsyT : Sorry for the tease Cher I can not make comedy win BUT a Well placed presence that is funny will travel

Chernynkaya : AdLib– YES. Davos and all those think tank places. Aspen Institute etc.

AdLib : Patsy – Laughter is the best medicine…and sometimes the only kind cover by your health plan.

AdLib : Cher – Just saw a thing on 60 Minutes a week or so ago about Davos, they invited people who have great ideas for businesses. Maybe next year, Davos?

Chernynkaya : PAtsy– please elaborate. I want comedy to win, I think. do I?

PatsyT : Comedy wins then !

AdLib : Cher – Exactly! Like charter schools, private non-profit companies doing what Medicare or SS might do and being subsidized as Medicare Advantage was designed. Just add in their ability to take on everyone.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– seriously dude. You should write to some leftie philanthropist– david geffin or soros and present that idea. or Trumpke– and C’lady!

AdLib : Patsy – It would be so funny! And Dems couldn’t turn down subsidizing the unions, they’d be scared not to!

PatsyT : AdLib a few well placed Ideas can go a long way

Chernynkaya : Yes– govt subsidies. but your idea is really very big. I mean it. like private schools in a way. And what else? You can make abortions available if you don’t take govt funds. A small point, but still…

AdLib : Cher – Can’t help it, my approach is that if you hit an obstacle, accept it and find another way to your goal. If Dems are terrified of voting for a Public Option, do an end run and simply provide subsidies for “private businsess” which Repubs claim to support.

Blues Tiger : I wonder if Co-Op healt care is feasible

PatsyT : Ohh lets freak them out – – run by UNIONS !!

Chernynkaya : Oh–you are righT Adlib, i know. Just sayin’.

Blues Tiger : My better have is planning on buying the pink and black Sig 22 next couple of weeks

AdLib : Cher – SO, why not have private non-profits start up…that then get subsidies from the government and become de facto Public Options paid for by the government, without being technically government run?

Chernynkaya : ADLIB — that’s what made me write ass– I knew it!!

PatsyT : Tiger I was quoting the Gary Oldman line for Batman “I gotta get me one of those”

AdLib : Patsy – We look to government to do things but it’s thinking outside of the box to consider what resources exist to accomplish the same goal.

Chernynkaya : But it may come to that.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– altho the idea is good, it bothers me because I think the govt should do it. It also give the reptilians the right to say, See the free fucking market works!

PatsyT : Adlib Yes why not I could go for that

AdLib : So close, Cher! I was thinking of a Tostadass.

PatsyT : Yes Tiger . . very interesting

Blues Tiger : oops Pink Gun…

AdLib : SO, what about this idea of unions, perhaps backed by their credit unions, creating non-profit health insurance companies?

Chernynkaya : Adlib asked me what he was thinking of, and it was tostadas. Or a piece of ass as all men think every 20 secs.

Blues Tiger : Hey Patsy!!! Did you see your Pink Gum Links?

PatsyT : Tostadas ?

PatsyT : Night bito and Kes

AdLib : Night Kes!

Chernynkaya : Take care, Kes!

kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! And I’m afraid I have to take my leave now, too. Tomorrow it’s back to the salt mines. Sigh… Good night, all!

AdLib : Night bito!

AdLib : BT – Yes, Blue Cross was a non-profit and gave incredible care and benefits for low premiums. It certainly could happen again with a new entity.

Chernynkaya : Night Bito, BB!

Chernynkaya : Tostadas.

bitohistory : OK, now this time, looking at the clock, I must say good night, Best to you, my friends. Now it will take me 10 minutes to close down this machine. lol Who opened all these sites?

AdLib : Cher! WHat am I thinking of right now?

PatsyT : Hey Tiger !

Blues Tiger : Hellooooooo AdLib and everyone…

kesmarn : Well…how dumb am I! I never knew that!

Chernynkaya : It’s insurance for insurance cos. Kes. In case they run out of $$ to pay premiums. They have those for property ins and Life ins, but I am only assuming it’s for health ins. too.

PatsyT : Bito with three girlswe Have to keep up insurance so believe me there are many a thing I go without to make sure we have insurance

AdLib : Welcome Tiger!

kesmarn : Hey, Blues! I understand Blue Cross was originally non-profit.

AdLib : kes – No, what insurance companies do is co-insure, that is, they take out insurance against having to pay out too much. It is far less, co-insuring, than directly paying for health insurance.

kesmarn : Cher, I feel silly asking, but what is “re-insurance” ? (I should probably know this, but don’t!)

Blues Tiger : Wasn’t Blues Cross a Non profit initially along the lines your talking about?

PatsyT : Hey we have been through the trenches with many a insurance co back in Illinois and here in CA Ohhh the REAL stories I can tell

Chernynkaya : Kes, even insurance co’s have re-insurance for someone like that patient.

AdLib : Patsy – That’s part of the vicious circle that’s been created. All the corporations draining us of so much, we need to borrow. Then we’re hooked on credit, then more money has to go to pay interest and we have less and less, being virtual serfs who work just to pay our masters. That’s what I liked about the movie The Matrix. Corporations just see us as human batteries to drain then discard when we’re not providing them with what they need.

Chernynkaya : Adlib, just as your comment appeared I was thinking that– there could be credit union-type insurers or affiliation groups like the AFL/CIO — they could each start an insurance co.

kesmarn : It’s a great idea, AdLib, but I had a patient recently who had $800,000 plus bills in ONE year. A few members like that and you have major financial probs with a small group.

bitohistory : Patsy,Ah , Disposable income! even h. Ford realized that(after a few bloody strikes)

AdLib : Cher – A big pool of investment money would be required at startup but not as much as Midas if they started small and local, like credit unions. Down the line, they could network and cover more nationally.

kesmarn : Patsy, and the sad thing is, if you made a claim on your insurance they would try hard to deny it, and then raise your rates!

PatsyT : Adlib we can pay our insurance premiums but it takes away from so many other things we should be putting our $$$ toward ! and we could be helping the economy with other spending

Chernynkaya : Adlib, i suppose it could if someone rich as Midas started one. But it would probably be like that Tucker car– the big insurers would do anything to destroy it,

bitohistory : k’es rhetoric not solutions. Politics over policy.

AdLib : Cher – Ignorance is indeed bliss. Ask any lemming before it blindly follows others off a cliff and hurtles to its untimely death. Except for that, they were really blissful.

kesmarn : b’ito. Exactly. Been around as long as “divide and conquer.” No?

bitohistory : k’es, those with power have always tried to develop differences. if it was to their advantage. Ya think?

kesmarn : Yes, Cher, I was debating with a RWer the other day, using facts, and he finally said: “Nothing you could ever say will change my mind. Ever.”

AdLib : Okay, here’s a question. Since all that health insurance companies do is act as a middleman, taking money from people and paying it to doctors, why couldn’t a grass roots, non-profit company be created as a Public Option to do the same?

Chernynkaya : We really live in 2 americas with 2 different realities, and there will be no meeting of the minds. The vast center is by definition low-info voters–always undecided. The are the only ones who are happy. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

kesmarn : b’ito, what was the thing that disappointed them the most?

AdLib : Patsy – That’s why I want this passed, to help your family, KQuark and millions of fellow human beings who have been pushed into an inescapable corner by the greed of insurance corporations.

bitohistory : listening to cspann (good source?)yesterda y, there were a lot or R’s dissapointed in their party.

Chernynkaya : So both Kes and Adlib depressed me but it’s what I feared. In a way tho, it’s better that they know it’s a lie than to believe it.

kesmarn : b’ito, I wonder if the corps encourage racial tensions, though, because it takes our attention away from their nefarious doings.

AdLib : Kes – The MSM is owned by profit driven corporations. Their only goal and their legal obligation is to make as much money as possible. They can be sued by shareholders and lose for doing what’s best for the nation instead of what’s best for their shareholders.

kesmarn : Cher, on the question of voter awareness: here’s where the Christian right comes in. They’ll vote for literally anyone who has the right buzz words on abortion and gay marriage.

AdLib : Cher – A very good question. I have a couple of thoughts, first, there are those for whom their party affiliation is like religion, they would no more question their beliefs in one or the other. They were born a Republican, they will die one…soon unfortunately, because of a lack of health care coverage. I think they know full well that Repubs are lying but it’s all about winning so they turn a blind eye or even applaud it if it makes them “win”.

Chernynkaya : AdlIb– Impeachable offense!Puhleeze . A BJ is impeachable, but not lying about Saddam and hundreds of thousands dead! Hinestly, we should require any political statement be made under oath.

PatsyT : If they can pass some of this now it affects my family right now -I hope- we pay more then our mortgage for our health care insurance and we make no claims on it WTF!!

bitohistory : I don’t think corps worry about race, they think about$$$. pure greed.

kesmarn : As for the motivation of the MSM, I waffle back and forth…racism? greed? racism? greed? Both…?

Chernynkaya : My serious question: Do the vast majority of voters realize what hypocritical liars the GOP are?

AdLib : And does that not border on an impeachable offense, to willingly be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans for their own greedy purposes?

AdLib : We all know, as does the BSMSM, that the GOP is not honest about wanting any change, certainly not while Obama is president.

kesmarn : Cher, yes, and the Repub version of “slowing down” is to scrap all the work that has been done so far and start over. How many times will they suggest doing that?

bitohistory : You got that right, k’es. Givers and takers.

PatsyT : benefit of the doubt

PatsyT : LBJ I wish . . . Obama has to navigate this territory and this time I have to give Obama the

AdLib : bito – It doesn’t affect me directly either, unless all premiums can be reduced in the long run so I’m with you, I want it to pass because of how it will help others, including friends of mine.

Chernynkaya : That reminds me about the summit– how the DEms were insisting we couldn’t do this incrementally– as if this wasn’t incremental! Geez!

kesmarn : b’ito, I guess we’re the people who plant acorns so future generations can sit in the shade of oaks, huh?

AdLib : Patsy – Imagine what it took for the Dems and LBJ to pass The Civil RIghts Bill. LBJ knew it would cost him re-election and the Dems would lose the South. But he made that sacrifice and today Barack Obama is our president. If LBJ had only taken baby steps to protect his and Dems re-election, I’d hate to imagine where we’d be today.

bitohistory : Adlib I don’t care when it goes in effect. it has no affect on me. I want it to pass for other and the future.

Chernynkaya : Kes– it was a leftover form a conversation an couple days agao, but I think you got it anyway.

PatsyT : AdLib – I would prefer the bold approach though

kesmarn : Thanks, Patsy! That helps, after a blztldlksd day yesterday!

PatsyT : Adlib In a perfect world but that is not what they have

kesmarn : Cher! You are a funny lady!

AdLib : Cher – We’re on the same wavelength again! Agree about the public getting frustrated that HCR doesn’t immediately or in years make things substantially better.

kesmarn : b’ito!

Chernynkaya : Bito–you mean ya had to take a Rumsfeld?

PatsyT : Kes blither away we love you

kesmarn : Patsy, I’ll try to hang in a bit longer, but when I really start blithering, let me know….

AdLib : Patsy – I think that’s a path they’ve chosen, which is self-serving. They don’t want to take a risk that making things right today may mean they don’t get re-elected…eve n though they would be doing something profound for Americans today and forever.

Chernynkaya : The 2014 date seems insane and not beneficial for elections but many good features will take place sooner.

bitohistory : No,not tired or laughing (?) I had to go potty.

PatsyT : Night Kes

kesmarn : Cher, as Mom used to say: “Some people only learn the hard way.”

AdLib : Keep in mind though, even if HCR passes, as I’m more optimistic it will, much of it won’t begin until 2014. Will the public be upset in 2012 when rate hikes and other nasty practices continue despite HCR having passed?

Chernynkaya : This nation is too ignorant, so we pass w/o the PO and the mandates and prices makes us crazy and then we demand a PO after a few years of suffering and that’s how we legislate in the US of A.

PatsyT : Adlib sounds like they ultimately want to exaust all the options to get there

kesmarn : b’ito, see you later. I may have to bow out a little early, too. Am running on extremely short sleep. (Probably shows, too!)

AdLib : Tired of laughing?

Chernynkaya : Bito are you laughing or tired?

AdLib : Patsy – Exchanges have never proven historically to lower costs. I know that’s how Obama and Dems present it but it’s not proven through experience. There will eventually need to be a non-profit health care option because even with all that’s proposed, a for-profit system is unsustainable.

PatsyT : Kes don’t hold back

bitohistory : Please, continue :lol , i need to take a break.

PatsyT : Too bad Corporations you may just have to go out and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps !

AdLib : Cher – Thanks from the bottom of Cheney’s Hearty of No.

Chernynkaya : Oh, Bito– I know and Im cool with that.

kesmarn : In my work I’m seeing more and more patients who are desperate, sick, broke and fed-up. Not too many who are supportive of Repub delays. But then, I see a select demographic.

AdLib : bito – I don’t think it is worth losing all the benefits this bill will bring without the PO, I want to see it pass. My big problem with the bill was that the individual mandate, with no price controls, would allow Blue Cross to raise its premiums 70% and if that meant you can’t afford your mortgage and you didn’t pay, you are a criminal and will be fined thousands. Now, with Obama’s Fed price controls, it’s a bit better. However, the anti-abortion section, which would virtually outlaw abortion, must be removed.

PatsyT : I think that is what Rockefeller is going for there

PatsyT : How about the exchange part of this having a non for profit – – – like a PO

Chernynkaya : I just read Adlib’s Hearty of No!! OMG, that’s awful! Love it.

bitohistory : Cher, Patsy, It is the foot in the door for total HCR. That is what the Corps. are really afraid of.

kesmarn : I couldn’t put into words suitable for family viewing what I would like to do to Nelson and Baucus.

AdLib : Kes – Yes, Pelosi and The House are ready to go, she said pointedly that they are merely waiting for The Senate, the ball’s in their court. Pelosi has the Dems lined up, ready to go in the House. It is all up to the Dems in The Senate.

kesmarn : Did we lose j’avaz? Her dial-up might have faded away…

bitohistory : I tend to side with R;feller. The Po is not the end all to be all. There are other parts better and more important.

PatsyT : Born Again

kesmarn : AdLib, I like that!

AdLib : There is an interesting symbolism here, HCR looked dead, having been crucified by the GOP…then it comes back to life at Easter?

Chernynkaya : No PO You know, let’s say Obama is playing 18 dimensional chess. At this point I am willing– and grateful to get ANY HCR. And I was adamant about single payer! So look how cleverly he turned me around?

kesmarn : I’m assuming House will be easier than Senate?

PatsyT : They can bring back PO any time even after they pass this

AdLib : Kes – That’s what Harkin is saying, it will pass in The Senate by Easter.

kesmarn : I think c’lady had hopes of a PO last week…

PatsyT : On HRC I think there is no turning back . . . march on !

bitohistory : He also has his health costs paid by Hallibuton , thanks to the blood of innocents.

nellie : I do

AdLib : And…anyone think that a public option might really get slipped in?

Chernynkaya : It better and why so long (rhetorical)? Yeah, I guess.

kesmarn : Can I go out on a limb and say 50:50? By Easter?

AdLib : So, who here thinks the HCR bill will really pass by Easter?

kesmarn : “Oink,” sez Richard C.

PatsyT : Cher LOLOLOL

PatsyT : The 5 deferments part ought to be on billboards everywhere !

Chernynkaya : KES!

AdLib : Cheney’s heart attacks just prove his heart is as Republican as he is, it’s The Hearty of No.

Chernynkaya : He needs one final deferment.

kesmarn : Yes, Cher. Think of all the money Cheney has cost the taxpayers in health care. He’s a one-man earmark pork project. Literally. No more bacon, Dick!

PatsyT : Cher YES that guy can hardly hold his head up !

bitohistory : 5 heart attacks–5 deferments.

Chernynkaya : Agreed, Adlib.

PatsyT : Kes Way tooo funny !!!

Chernynkaya : Patsy– Matthews i think said that cheney proves how important good health care is!

kesmarn : And to think they were chanting “Run, Dick, run!” at CPAC. “Run to the nearest cardiologist,” more accurately. (Shame on me!)

bitohistory : Remember the corporate tea baggers read Alinsky. They get in the news . they make noise.

PatsyT : Seriously Chenny – – 5 heart attacks ?

AdLib : Cher – I think that some of those 50 Dems are stupid enough to think that not having to vote for HCR could be good for them in their election. The stupidity is, the public is clearly most upset that nothing is getting done by the Senate and not doing something, though it takes away a GOP attack ad, hurts worse. If they don’t pass something, as you say and I agree, there is no argument to re-elect Dems to retain power. Why? SO they can do nothing for another 6 years? I would of course vote Dem but many would simply vote against a worthless incumbent Dem, not thinking about putting in a destructive or Party of No Repub.

Chernynkaya : Bito keep reminding us! YES!!

PatsyT : Bito – that is almost to easy -they are laying all over the place -you have to step over them

kesmarn : Patsy, Lol, yeah, Obama’s second term could be 8 years after his first one and he’d still be in better shape than Cheney!

Chernynkaya : I saw Avatar last night. And despite the corporate media, I thought “well, they let this film be made. It is so anti-corporate and I loved that. I said to hubby, What if Cameron had used his talent to make a PRO-corporate film? (Shudder)

PatsyT : Bito You are so right !

bitohistory : Oh God, here I am doing a saul alinsky, STOP picking on the differences in your party, expose the problems of the opposition!!

kesmarn : Yes, Cher. I think he’d like to win again. But that “centered” part of him accepts whatever might come his way, it seems to me.

Chernynkaya : But Adlib, do you think more than 50 dems are afraid that HCR is bad for their re-election? I find that surprising. But there is no other explanation I guess.

AdLib : Cher – Yes, agreed. The lack of the proper response by the media around us, the acceptance that winning the game is what matters, not how you win, whether you lie, cheat or steal, those are the sociopathic corporate values that have helped de-sensitize the public to feeling outrage at being blatantly lied to. Come on, “death panels”, “kill Granny”, “socialism”, “gov’t takeover of the country”, the MSM KNOWS this is bullshit but they sit back rooting on the conflict and communicating to Americans that all that matters is who wins.

PatsyT : Hey, Obama could take time off and run again !

javaz : It’d be time. b’ito. to show our celebrity nipples!

kesmarn : Yes, b’ito, politicians need to be afraid of people who feel they’ve lost everything. “Freedom=nothin g left to lose.”

Chernynkaya : Kes– Obama has said so himself. he doesn’;t care about how long he is Prez. But you know, deep down, no one likes to be defeated.

PatsyT : Yes Bito !

bitohistory : j’avaz, if one feels hopless, then it i is time to think, Hell nothing left to lose. Time to get naked , raise hell, and protest in the town square. Make sure it gets on the telly!!!

kesmarn : I’ve said it before: what Osama bin Laden was unable to accomplish, Bush was.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– about MSM + lies– yes, I see that psychology. But I also say that we become desensitized when lies are made acceptable. and when there is no justice, it’s every man for himself and the social contract breaks down. That said, I am not for prosecuting. But we need to regain a sense of justice in US.

PatsyT : Could Bush have left a bigger mindfield ?

AdLib : Cher – The Dems CAN pass with 50 votes but so many of them frighten so easily. Scott Brown scared them because they have little vision. This is why, if Reid loses his election and a new Maj Leader takes his place who has balls, the fraidy cat Dems could be frightened into doing the right thing. I think Dick Durbin would be a likely candidate for leader, he would be a vast improvement.

kesmarn : Does anyone ever get the feeling that Obama is not terrribly concerned about being a one-termer?

javaz : Right, but remember, Obama is a politician, too.

Chernynkaya : Patsy tru. And my caps were accidental when I typed Afghanisan. It’s not always about who else there is w/voters. They just stay home.

AdLib : javaz – No, I’m not hopeless. I’m discouraged by the way things really are in this nation but keep in mind that despite the status quo and media opposed to it, we did rise up as a majority and elect Obama. He may not be accomplishing everything we would like but he is doing some important things. We need to take heart in that sometimes and imagine what things would be like under a Pres. McCain (or Pres. Palin!).

kesmarn : Yes, Cher, that’s another reason why b’ito’s concern with net neutrality is so important. When they control bandwidth, we’re SOL.

PatsyT : Obama is getting out of Iraq or at least it appears to look that way – Young people can appreciate that, no ?

javaz : Let me try again -don’t you feel hopeless in that there is nothing we can do?

Chernynkaya : RE the MSM– the only tool we have against them is the net. That’s why I am so jazzed to join with other blogs to fight scotus or whatever. The net is the last bastion of freedom of the press.

kesmarn : You got it, b’ito. The corporations control the message.

kesmarn : j’avaz, I actually feel a little more hopeful this week than I did last. C’lady’s words helped. And Obama seemed to give the green light to reconciliation.

PatsyT : Cher I know the Afghan thing I am not for that myself but what repub will offer anything else Ron Paul ??

bitohistory : AdLib , the MSM is corporate, don’t forget. They know that they can’ report.

javaz : nothing

Chernynkaya : So can someone explain why we can’t pass HCR with 50 votes?

javaz : Don’t you feel hopeless, in that there’s we can do?

AdLib : Cher – My theory is that people don’t seem outraged because the MSM does not express any outrage at deceit and lies. If you are in a group of people and none of them are alarmed at the crazy behavior of a person, you are less likely to be as well. This is established psychological principle, individuals adopt attitudes of those surrounding them.

Chernynkaya : Patsy– AFGHANISTAN is a big turnoff to young voters– more than hcr.

kesmarn : Right, AdLib, MSM fails us again. (I won’t love to dig up all the old Bush speeches about wMD and how “sound” the economy was and play ’em over and over today.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– we just posted almost the same thought there.

PatsyT : Obama has to go toward his base because they will come out of the woodwork for him bigtime– the middle – not so much -the obama base is what should be growing right now all of the young people new voters every year and many others (older voters) gone

AdLib : Kes – What pisses me off at the MSM, not talking about Rachel and KO, but they report this bullshit from Boner and others without ever putting it in context with what they’ve said before that contradicts them. They are freely promoting lies and deception without comment. That is not journalism.

Chernynkaya : aDLIB– “the GOP will say anything…” And what scares me is, it doesn;t seem to matter that they are exposed as liars! Nobody seems as outraged as they should be! If this continues they can get away with anything. Nobody being prosecuted for Iraq/torture sets a very bad example and standard for betraying the public and the law.

bitohistory : Ins. Companies. $1.24 -a day- million on lobbyists , can’t be wrong! They want their pay off

AdLib : bito – It WILL be 150% within a year or so. They raise rates multiple times in a year, 70% is just one raise. Here is a fact that the Repubs refuse to face…at this rate, the math is very simple, HC will not be affordable for the majority of Americans within the next few years if HCR is not passed. How do these assholes think Americans can survive 70% rate hikes each year forever?

javaz : Oh God, we live in such a red state, and Arizonans love McCain, and worse, love Sheriff Joe. JD is a corrupt former senator … Garcia is the Dem running from Tuscon, but he doesn’t get any air time

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. And Boehner! First he says the HCR bill is too huge (1990 pages!!), then the Obama plan is too small (fewer pages than a comic book). HUH?

bitohistory : j’avz, no I didn’t see that. But JD has Orly Taintz!

Chernynkaya : Nellie as a meditator, during the campaign, before an important event i actually saw him center himself many times.

AdLib : Kes – The GOP will say anything, that is so obvious and promoted by them now. All the HCR things they supported months ago, they oppose now because they think it helps them politically. Obama is weak if he is thoughtful or patient. And yet he is a dangerous socialist taking over our country. Which is it, loonies?

kesmarn : I almost want to thank the insurance companies for raising their rates. They sure are helping the cause of reform.

bitohistory : Adlib, I feel for the peeps in Cal, but i am glad they did. why not 150%?

Chernynkaya : AdLib, they will pass HCR. It is unthinkable that they don’t . why not? What’s the problem? I am missing something.

nellie : Cher, I think the president has done a lot of soul searching in his lifetime. People like that are usually very zen.

javaz : B’ito, did you notice how the AZ media made McCain as the winner?

kesmarn : Right, Cher. It’s amazing, though, how often righties interpret “peace-maker” with “weakling.” Aggravating.

PatsyT : Bito I think they must have a mind set. My Husband and I have a small business so I can speak on this and say this (current HC) is out of control and reform is a must I would be happy to show them our ##

AdLib : So, will they really pass HCR?

Chernynkaya : Kes– yep. But really, I think that’s his nature. He might have been born that way, and his background as an outsider makes him a people pleaser and a peace maker– in a good way.

bitohistory : I think the senate can handle Mccain more than JD. he i an Idiot.

AdLib : Cher – I would have to be sedated so I wouldn’t yell at that sorry sack of white haired corporately owned men posing as GOP Senators.

kesmarn : Cher, I wonder if Obama practiced by spending huge amounts of time with large groups of pre-schoolers… .?

AdLib : And announced today, maybe not coincidentally after the HC Summit, Blue Cross announced plans to raise premiums in CA by up to 70%.

nellie : Obama is patient — but he gets his licks in.

bitohistory : patsy, i listen (for a few minutes0 to a RW small buis. show. they are against the HCR. WHY?

javaz : Did you not think that the Arizona media declared McCain the winner and pushed his Maverick image?

Chernynkaya : Adlib– that’s what I was thinking too– I could NEVER behave the way he did, unless I was in a clinical setting as a paid psychiatrist.

kesmarn : I hear a lot of Repubs whining that the recovery is slow because “nobody knows what’s going to happen.” Don’t they realize what a huge stabilizer passing HCR will be?

PatsyT : By junk I mean what we have now

nellie : Health care will pass

Chernynkaya : All I know is, if the Dems can’t pass reconciliation– – that’s only 50 votes, then they may deserve to lose big in ’10 and ’12.

PatsyT : I wish that they had brought out how important the economic side of this is -How can any small business get started with this junk

bitohistory : I think it was more for the senste and house than the rank and file. they vote the way they vote. I can’t understand them.

nellie : Yep. I think this was really for conservative voters who might be swayed by right wing talking points.

AdLib : Cher – I am physically and intellectually incapable of practicing the restraint and discipline Obama di. He is a remarkable man.

javaz : B’ito, didn’t you think that the Arizona news proclaimed McCain the winner?

AdLib : nellie – Exactly! This was insurance against the attacks that will definitely come from the Right that they didn’t try bipartisanship and used “the nuclear option”…which Repubs used to define proudly as killing the filibuster but now it means just passing legislation.

kesmarn : Patsy, Weiner is terrific. “Top Dog”?

Chernynkaya : Also, I honestly think Obama has the patience of a saint.

PatsyT : AdLib that McCain moment was priceless !

kesmarn : Hey, nellie! I think you’re right. It was a sort of “show and tell” exercise?

nellie : I think this was the president’s way of showing the country why health care is going to pass via reconciliation.

Chernynkaya : I think if passed HCR will be the senate version most closely.

PatsyT : I love Anthony Weiner I wish he was at that summit

AdLib : I loved the part where McCain was whimpering about FL getting a special deal then when Obama said, “Good point,” McCain was gobsmacked and his face stripped gears. That was hilarious!

Chernynkaya : I was not that enthralled with the summit because i think the Reps got a boost merely for not pissing themselves in public. But I do think it signaled the passage of HVR.

kesmarn : Hey, b’ito, good to see you here.

kesmarn : For what it’s worth, I got one of those mass email things from H. Reid. He said: “HCR will pass.”

AdLib : Hey bito!

PatsyT : Hey bito !

bitohistory : Hey, k’es, and all.

AdLib : LET’S BEGIN! THIS WEEK’S HEALTH CARE SUMMIT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH AND VERY AMUSING AT TIMES. WHAT WERE YOUR FAVORITE PARTS? WITH THIS HURDLE OVER, PRES. OBAMA AND THE DEMS HAVE SHOWN THE REPUBS TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK WITH AND SEEM CONFIDENT ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING HCR THROUGH RECONCILIATION. DOES THIS MAKE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC THAT HCR WILL PASS? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE?

PatsyT : Troll busters is one of a kind

kesmarn : I saw you slip in the side door there, b’ito!

Chernynkaya : Nellie did most and i think it is unique among all sites!! Thanks tho, patsy.

PatsyT : Hey Cher I have to say it quick that the Troll Busters is awesome yo uand Nellie and anyone else that is on that Thank You I have directed many folks there !

Chernynkaya : Back attcha, J!

javaz : Hiya Cher!!! One of my favorite Planeteers!

kesmarn : Hey, Cher!

AdLib : Hey Cher!

kesmarn : Yes…any and all contributions gratefully accepted. Well, beer might be a problem, however…

Chernynkaya : Hi Y’all!

PatsyT : Only Sam Adams sorry

AdLib : Anyone got a bit of Kahlua for Kes’ cup of tea?

PatsyT : Kes, me too, do not feel guilty -Life is busy for us all.

kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! (feeling guilty, but still working on education article here…slowly… )

AdLib : Hi Patsy!

javaz : hi patsy!

AdLib : It’s a secret, javaz! Not really.

PatsyT : Hey Everybody !

kesmarn : Assam tea tonight. And nothing interesting to put in it. Sigh.

javaz : Hi kes!

AdLib : Hope you’ve got a warm mug of cocoa, Kesmarn.

javaz : what is the topic tonight?

kesmarn : Hey, j’avaz and AdLib, from the eternally snowy midwest.

AdLib : Take 2: “Hey javaz!

javaz : Hi

AdLib : Welcome to tonight’s edition of Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!