Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then!
AdLib3 hours ago
Hi glenn! How are you tonight?
AdLiban hour ago
Hi AD. Am I the first one here tonight? How are you doing on this Friday the 13th?
glenn
an hour ago
I’m doing all right.
glenn
an hour ago
Hello Glenn…
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hi Ad
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hi Murph! Good to see you.
glenn
an hour ago
You are officially the first one at Vox Tonight! You get first pick of the hors d’oeuvres!
AdLiban hour ago
I have to say that I could not be sadder than I am right now. I have friends in Israel who are missing.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hey Murph! How are you tonight?
AdLiban hour ago
That’s terrible to hear, Murph. No news on them?
AdLiban hour ago
Oh OK. Can I get mozzarella sticks?
glenn
an hour ago
They were visiting friends at a kibbutz near the musical festival that was attacked by Hamas. No word
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
glenn – You’ve got them! What can I get you to drink?
AdLiban hour ago
Murph that’s terrible. So sorry to hear about your friends. I hope you hear something positive soon.
glenn
an hour ago
Hello TW
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
AD I’ll take a glass of white wine please.
glenn
an hour ago
Hello everone looks like there is a lot to discuss tonight.
twilson117
an hour ago
Not a word so far…..I took them to the airport last week.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hello TW. Hope you are doing well tonight.
glenn
an hour ago
I saw the materials today that Hamas had created for their attacks on the music festival, schools, etc. This was a tactical decision to strike at youth, the elderly, the most vulnerable, to make a brutal statement that no one there is safe.
AdLiban hour ago
Hey TW!
AdLiban hour ago
Glenn doing fine how about you?
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad good evening
twilson117
an hour ago
TW I’m doing as well as can be expected on a dialysis day.
glenn
an hour ago
Ad….there is so much evil roaming the world.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph isn’t that the truth? You would think after all these years we would learn how to live together in peace.
glenn
an hour ago
Murph just read you have friends at a kibubutz I hope they’re okay.
twilson117
an hour ago
Glenn….how is your treatment going? Do you have support at this difficult time? Who is there to be with you?
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Glenn…at times like this I despair
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Glenn it’s good to see you here tonight.
twilson117
an hour ago
TW…yes…..they have children who live in Israel at a kibbutz…..I have no information as to their situation or that of their kids. Inquiries are nearly impossible to make.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
At times like this I wish that we who make Vox an important part of our lives lived close……to live with ciivilized/caring people…..
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – It is enraging to learn that Netanyahu aided Hamas getting funded and building its strength in an effort to lock out the majority of Palestinians from having a two-state solution. And he ignored warnings from Israeli and US intelligence. And he was warned by Israeli Intelligence that his push for ending judicial independence and democracy and pushing hundreds of thousands to protest in the streets week after week sent a message to Israel’s enemies that they were divided and vulnerable to an attack. Netanyahu didn’t care, he was only about saving himself from prosecution and becoming essentially a dictator. He has so much blood on his hands.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad this attack is beyond to lowest form of despicable.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph I really don’t need support. I have transportation from my assisted living facility taking me to dialysis three times a week. And then when I get home I eat something and then take a long nap. My treatment is going OK. They just change the procedure. I have a catheter in my neck that is outside my body also where they put the ports for the blood to go in and out. But now I had a couple of operations and had my veins attached to my arteries. And there and they’re using my arm now. So I get two needles in my arm every time I go. I like having the catheter better but they tell me that the catheter has a high risk of infection and it’s very close to my heart. So I’m learning how to live with them sticking to needles in my arm three times a week.
glenn
an hour ago
Thanks TW I’m glad to be able to be here tonight.
glenn
an hour ago
I know Murph. I am with you. I just don’t understand terrorists.
glenn
an hour ago
Murph – We become unaware of just how brutal evil people can be when living in the US and not having to worry about the likelihood of invading armed terrorists. There are truly evil people out there, indeed.
AdLiban hour ago
ADI know that Netanyahu has a lot to answer for but I still don’t think that what Hamas is doing is their answer either.
glenn
an hour ago
Glenn….I appreciate your explanation of what you are going through…..do you have my e mail? my phone number? You are welcome to both……I am glad that you have the help you need to take care of your physical needs…….you are a strong person, I know that, and I offer what I can.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Thank you so much Murph. Yes I have your email. Thanks for your offer and believe me if I get two down I’ll send you an email. Thanks for your support
glenn
an hour ago
I have been following the stories of several retired Israel commandos who have been running their own rescue operations…brave beyond belief.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
glenn – Hamas is as evil as it gets, as bad as ISIS. They planned to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap innocent civillians, especially children. At the same time, Israel shutting off water, food and electricity for 2 million innocent people is evil too.
AdLiban hour ago
Glenn…..I stand with you in spirit…….and in my hopes and wishes for your health.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph in my opinion Israelis have always been in charge of their own operations. But Israel Defense force is something to be reckoned with. Even retired ones.
glenn
an hour ago
I got into a fierce argument with someone I have worked with re. the IDF assault on Gaza City……I believe that it places the Israeli army into the role o war criminals, as is Hamas. Evil is evil.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
And the other big story is that Jim Jordan is the latest doomed nominee to be the Repub speaker in a broken House. I don’t think he’ll get the votes he needs, he’s a death wish to Repubs winning a majority in 2024.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad I have to admit the situation in Israel is one I find confusing and hard to follow. But I do understand the power dynamics of Netanyahu which is all he wants along with the extermination of the Palestinians so he can take over all the land.
twilson117
an hour ago
ADO yes I agree Hamas is evil. But I also have to agree that what Israel is doing in retaliation is evil also.
glenn
an hour ago
I admit I never paid much attention to the Palestinian Israeli conflict. Does anyone here know when the Palestinians were relocated to the Gaza Strip and why?
glenn
an hour ago
Murph this is not going to go well for any of the Israeli solders because I do believe they will have a very difficult time staying in line with the rules of war when comes to crimes that were committed on men women and children. This is not going to be good at all.
twilson117
an hour ago
TW – Netanyahu had to get in bed with the most extreme right party to get back in as PM, they’re as radical as MAGAs are but with a religious hatred and fervor…even against fellow Israelis who aren’t as extreme as them. Hamas does need to be crushed first but then I think Netanyahu and the RW extremists will be pulled down from power by the people.
AdLiban hour ago
The question for me is this: will the assault on Gaza City result in the freeing of hostages, or liberate the people of that city or will it further inflame the passions of those who already so deeply hate each other. I watched an interview with a half doze Palestinian boys and girls in their early teens…….they were SO impressive…..I wept for them…..I did.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
AD well you never know. Jordan may be able to get enough votes after 15 rounds of voting. Lol. Would love to see Hakeem Jeffries become speaker
glenn
an hour ago
Ad when your goal is power, you make deals with the devil to get it and pay for it in ways that should make ones skill crawl.
twilson117
an hour ago
glenn – Right with you. The principle is simple and there’s no room for hypocrisy, either it is wrong to target and kill innocent civilians including children and the elderly, or not. Whether Hamas or the IDF do it, it is wrong. I do think Biden is behind the scenes, pressing Israel to be very careful about indiscriminately killing civilians but with this siege of Gaza, how can they not be doing so?
AdLiban hour ago
Murph where is the Palestinian children impressive is the fact that they didn’t want Fighting or they did? And I do believe that the Israeli attack on Gaza is just going to make them even more inflexible and hateful.
glenn
an hour ago
AD exactly. I think Biden speech was very good where he did tell them that we can’t commit atrocities just because they did. But I’m not sure that just didn’t fall on deaf ears. And from what I understand the siege of Gaza is hurting innocent civilians. Apparently the electricity has been turned off and so people in hospitals and mothers who are not breast-feeding who need electricity to heat the bottles etc. are being hurt
glenn
an hour ago
I keep getting kicked off….is Glenn gone?
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
AD I’m also very impressed with the Democrats who are sticking together.
glenn
an hour ago
Murph whatever happens, I’m of the opinion it’s not going to make things better at all. I heard one reporter talk about how their are Palestinian who have absolutely no recognizable rights the Israelis have to consider. Does it remind you of anything?
twilson117
an hour ago
No Murph I’m still here.
glenn
an hour ago
For Glenn….re. Gaza City….. a great article if she returns…oh, you are here….my reach.
.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
TW I agree. No matter what happens I don’t think things are going to get better in that part of the world.
glenn
an hour ago
Thanks Murph I will check it out after Voc
glenn
an hour ago
Glenn Biden speech was good, but I keep asking myself how is that going to help those who are being treated as non-citizens in their own country?
twilson117
an hour ago
After vox
glenn
an hour ago
Glenn….re. your question about the young people….they were bewildered…..the hostility makes no sense and they regard both the Israelis and Hamas Palestinians as wrong……one young man said that all he wanted “was to see my sisters smile…..every now and then…..”
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
TW I know that is the dilemma isn’t it? But is Gaza really Palestinian? Or is it only Palestinian at the will of the Israelis
glenn
an hour ago
glenn – A brief thumbnail, after WWII, Jews began emmigrating to Israel in large numbers in the pursuit of Zionism, having a Jewish state that could protect them from what they had just experienced in WWII. The country was Palestine then. As they built their population and final fought to take power over the country, The Palestinians were pushed out a again and again from their homes. I’ve seen a map showing how over the years, Palestinians were pushed into smaller areas. Then the Six Day War in 1967 came, when Israel won that war, it was a great victory for them but doomed the Palestinians to being pushed out even more into the West Bank and Gaza.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad….a good summary….you are really very good at that……what strike me as the desires of both Jews and Palestinians mirror each other as does the pain they have experienced.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
AD thanks for the brief sketch. What is it that Hamas wants? And who is the authority over the Gaza Strip? Do Palestinians have their own government? And is Hamas against their own government to
glenn
an hour ago
Glenn good question. I must admit my knowledge on the situation is limited and I only know what I read. But, what I’ve read in the past and present, the Palestinians were always there. Also they keep being kicked out from the surrounding countries. One can do a lifetime of doctorial studies on that situation.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph young man statement is heartbreaking. It makes me want to cry.
glenn
an hour ago
It’s such a shame that Palestinians keep getting kicked out of countries
glenn
an hour ago
Glenn….. I did cry……I have been weepy for days now……I feels so sad about so much right now.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
I can understand their frustration.
glenn
an hour ago
Something to really consider is “why?”. Why did Hamas commit such a horrific attack that they knew Israel would have to respond in a fierce way? It seems an obvious calculation that they could push Israel to overreact then instead of seeing Israel as the victim of terrorists, be seen as war criminals themselves and spark Arab nations to band together and attack them. And Israel, under that monster Netanyahu, are falling right into that trap. The US is trying to keep them from falling into it all but Netanyahu is desperate to appear like the hero of Israel when most there right now see him as the villain who failed to protect them. This is a dangerous moment in the ME.
AdLiban hour ago
Murph it is not a good time in our world right now.
glenn
an hour ago
Green…the Palestinians and the Jews have shared histories, pain and fears… Two neglected and rejected people.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph it’s understandable that you feel the way you do.
twilson117
an hour ago
Yes Murph. If they could only understand how much they had in common rather than how much they hate each other.
glenn
an hour ago
Well gents I’m fading quickly. And I know we definitely won’t be able to solve the Middle East problems here on Vox. But it is nice chatting with people who are empathetic and knowledgeable. Good night my friends
glenn
an hour ago
Ad….your take on the hidden game being played by Hamas is one that Regard as 100 percent accurate. Hamas looked at the political game that Netanyahu was playing and saw a desperate man who would over react, in no small part as a means of trying to be the heroic defender of the state (he is that self deluded)
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Ad sound analysis especially considering they’ve been at each others throats since 48.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – So true, if anyone should understand the plight of Palestinians “wandering the desert” and being an oppressed minority, treated as an enemy and inferior by the majority, it should be the Israelis. And many do feel that way, the problem is that many Israelis are afraid of being attacked, as they have historically, that they have applied the same dehumanization of “the enemy” Palestinians as so many have done to Jews for centuries. Many Jews get it and many Jews don’t. It’s hard to understand fully.
AdLiban hour ago
Glenn.wonderful sharing this time with you..
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Glenn good to see you hear take care.
twilson117
an hour ago
Thanks Murph and TW. Hope to see you next week.
glenn
an hour ago
glenn – Hamas is an extremist, terrorist militia that is avowed to “kill the Jews”. They don’t want peace, which is what this attack was meant to destroy, they don’t want a two state solution, they are committed to rabid hatred of Jews and wiping them out. You can’t negotiate with ISIS or Hamas, they do have to be crushed.
AdLiban hour ago
Yes Ad……there has been a hidden game at work on both sides to keep their own people from seeing the truth that they are cousins who could forge a life together if their leaders were to set that out as a goal…..but that is not the road to great power.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis……..a rose (even a dead thorny one) by any other name is still a rose.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – Agreed, Netanyahu practically screamed on a biullhorn to Hamas, “I am tearing Israel apart by trying to overthrow our democracy, now is a perfect time to attack us at our weakest as the country turns against its government!” It’s kind of insane that Netanyahu hasn’t already been chased out of power but granted, they are now at war and that could harm the fight.
AdLiban hour ago
Okay need some help here. When we talk about the Palestinians and Jews, are they not both Semitic? Meaning they are essentially related. Also, if we consider the history of the country wasn’t Palestine what was the 10 tribes that broke away from Isarel with they had their civil war? At least that’s what I recall from my Bible studies why back when
twilson117
an hour ago
To keep himself out of jail…..Netanyahu was willing to place his country into great danger by his radicalized approach to all governance……an opportunity from Hamas’ perspective.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
TW – Thanks! And when you zoom out, it hasn’t been just since 1948 but posession of that arid country has gone back and forth over thousands of years. All the bloodshed its caused over all this time, to dominate that particular swath of desert because God says it is theirs, is just horrendous.
AdLiban hour ago
TW – No, Jews are Semetic, Palestinians are simply Arabs who lived in the country when it was Palestine. Hence, Palestinians.
AdLiban hour ago
One other think I could use some clarification on, Hamas, Hezbollah and Isis are all Muslem based organizations that I get. But they are made up of people (tribes actually) that have familial relationship to the Jews am I not correct?
twilson117
an hour ago
“Semetic” refers to those who are of the Hebrew faith. Palestinians are generally Muslim.
AdLiban hour ago
The Israeli/Palestinian animosity is rooted in a common set of experiences where the each walked in parallel lines with religious ideology fueling the fires of deep seated animosity.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Britannica defines Semitic in this way: Semite, name given in the 19th century to a member of any people who speak one of the Semitic languages, a family of languages spoken primarily in parts of western Asia and Africa. That definition would include Palestinians and Jews.
MurphTheSurf3
42 minutes ago
Murph – Exactly, Netanyahu made deals with multiple devils to escape justice and prosecution and hold power as a virtual dictator. He betrayed the country and opened it up to this terrible attack with his single minded pursuit of using his power to benefit himself. Now who does that sound like? Trump will not be re-elected but in a parallel universe where he was, the US would be torn apart similarly and terrorism would also see a huge opening to strike in the US then too.
AdLib42 minutes ago
Murph – That definition makes sense but it’s not a real-world application of the term anymore, the meaning has changed. For example, are you aware of the term “anti-semetic” being used nowadays with regards to those hating Palestinians or Arabs?
AdLib40 minutes ago
Ad..and very apt summary…..I add..Netayahu has promoted himself as an authentic, every vigilant, protector of the Jewish Homeland……and he will be remembered for how much danger he put them in.
MurphTheSurf3
40 minutes ago
Ad if one looks at old maps, I mean ones that show Biblical names of the country you see names of the ten tribes.
twilson117
40 minutes ago
Murph – I agree, Netanyahu is truly seen for the monster he is now and while I think it will be a long time for Israel to get through this war, when people have the space to turn and look at what he has done to the country, I think he will be seen as the most destructive and evil leader Israel has ever had.
AdLib38 minutes ago
Ad….I get your point……my point is that the Brittanica definition is one that is authentic in a way that most others are not….most of the definitions in use today presume a an impossibly deep fissure that has always stood between those peoples.
MurphTheSurf3
38 minutes ago
Ad, TW…..what do you think is the proper approach that needs to be taken by the Israeli forces at this time.
MurphTheSurf3
37 minutes ago
Ad I agree with Murph on the definition of Semite and you’re correct as we have moved forward that terminology has changed. But, I get a bit hung up on the overall gemology from the Biblical sense as it is often used by some for their justification for what they are doing. Then there is overall modernization of power and greed.
twilson117
36 minutes ago
Just saying, there is the dictionary definition of old historical terms and then there is the contemporary way that terms are understood and applied today. If the only application of anti-Semitism nowadays is in reference to hatred of Jews, it is de facto seen as Jews being exclusively identified as Semitic.
AdLib36 minutes ago
It’s just semantics (or anti-semantics?).
AdLib35 minutes ago
Ad…and I suggest that such interpretations lead inevitably to positions wherein there is no common ground.
MurphTheSurf3
35 minutes ago
Murph to your question, the only answer I can give is one has to hope that the men and women of the IDF don’t get overcome by what they may see and encounter that they become the horror they are fighting.
twilson117
33 minutes ago
I just heard a recording on MSNBC of a Palestinian woman explaining that she and her family have no place to go and no way to get anywhere so they have no choice to stay put and hope. That woman and her children are the face of Gaza that both Hamas and the Israelis must look to and treat fairly.
MurphTheSurf3
32 minutes ago
Murph – I don’t know that I have the answer but the principled way to pursue Hamas would definitely not be the blaming of all Palestinians for the actions of a minority and shutting down food, water, and electricity to 2 million people. It would be a longer mission to gradually use intelligence and targeted raids and bombing to isolate Hamas and diminish their ranks but Netanyahu is in such desperation to save his ass, he wants shock and awe. Can’t even imagine him and the word “humanitarian” in the same sentence.
AdLib32 minutes ago
TW….a know a rabbi who has told me that his greatest fear is that Israelis could so easily become Nazis.
MurphTheSurf3
31 minutes ago
Murph the Rabbi is correct.
twilson117
30 minutes ago
Murph – It’s more of a colloquialism now, Jews being identified as Semitic. I think if people used the term to apply to Arabs or Palestinians in common discussion, it would be confusing to most.
AdLib30 minutes ago
Ad……I agree with your approach…..and accept that it would ;place Israeli forces in situations of heightened danger since Hamas would happily slaughter Palestinians to get to Jews…..BUT that sacrifice might be the only way for Jews do demonstrate that they walk on a higher moral ground.
MurphTheSurf3
29 minutes ago
Murph – What could be more evil and cynical than Netanyahu warning 1 million Palestinians to leave North Gaza…when they’re prisoners there with no way out of Gaza and packed together so tightly there? He knows and the UN announced that it’s impossible for them to move, especially in 24 hours. It was just a dishonest excuse for him to use when he kills more innocent Palestinians. In fact, what he’s done with retaliating against all Palestinians and cutting them off from necessities, is a war crime. So the concern that Jews could become as brutal as Nazis was legit. Although, the same is true for most Israelis, they can’t be painted with a broad brush for the evil of their dishonest government.
AdLib26 minutes ago
Murph Hamas, Hezbollah and others are the well funded grunts doing the dirty work of those who don’t want to get their hands dirty and be able to say they had nothing to do with but are providing them with money, weapons and stoking their hate because they are being treated badly. And the Israelis are not helping their cause when they keep taking land and treating them like second class citizens.
twilson117
25 minutes ago
Ad……your analysis is a strong one…..but I listen to my rabbi friend….his worry is that Jews in Israel could become Nazis in the same way as generally good hearted Germans were turned……
MurphTheSurf3
24 minutes ago
Ad that’s Bibi’s excuse for when he sends the troops in guns blazing he can claim some form of deniability. But, I don’t see how that works when what you said is plain as day.
twilson117
23 minutes ago
TW…..I agree that there are wheels within wheels at work here.
MurphTheSurf3
23 minutes ago
Murph – You’re right and having the high moral ground in a war is very important. I would not be surprised that there are many booby-trapped and mined areas where IDF soldiers will be suckered into going and many will be decimated. The best minds at the strategy of war basically know that you don’t fight the war the enemy wants, you fight the war that you choose. Netanyahu is doing the former and I’m afraid this could become a lot worse, especially after the world sees atrocities that IDF soldiers may commit. The US did in Vietnam and how did that affect the US’ prestige and power globally?
AdLib22 minutes ago
And our discussion here tonight contains levels of nuance that most have not even begun to consider in this matter. In the heat of battle good sense and goodness in general are among the first casualties.
MurphTheSurf3
22 minutes ago
Ad…excellent analysis….comparison to Vietnam is very sharp.
MurphTheSurf3
21 minutes ago
Murph and we, that is, the US haven’t really help the situation. I don’t know any other way to say it, but everything the government has done is trying to pay penance for turning that ship away that was full of Jewish refugees fleeing Germany because of our country’s prejudice. A blood lability we can’t get rid of.
twilson117
20 minutes ago
Just one side trip please….any thoughts on where the speakership the house is heading?
MurphTheSurf3
20 minutes ago
Murph – At the same time, there is far more enlightenment in many if not most Israelis and you can see in the interviews, even of those with relatives and friends killed and kidnapped, that they just want peace and don’t want some innocent person like them in Palestine suffering over the loss of someone close like them. So I don’t know that they could be turned the way the less-enlightened Germans were when Hitler rose to power.
AdLib20 minutes ago
TW – You’re right, it is a sham of an excuse for Netanyahu to setup that no one but his most faithful followers will believe. I don’t think most Israelis will buy that BS, they know Palestinians are essentially living in “an open air prison”.
AdLib18 minutes ago
Ad…I take your point about so many Israelis…a good one…still the heart of Netanyahu’s support are the most radical fundamentalists who see this as Holy War.
MurphTheSurf3
18 minutes ago
Murph what is going on with the Republicans is a clown show of the highest order and its damn shameful.
twilson117
18 minutes ago
I see the GOP as stuck……and I believe that the only way out is a speaker elected from both sides of the house…..alienating the nihilists.
MurphTheSurf3
17 minutes ago
Murph – I say this, sensitive to a compromise of humility, but the conversations we have here seem so thoughtful and insightful compared to most one dimensional conversations I see in the media. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of the conversations we have here.
AdLib16 minutes ago
Ad….I am with you on that…..our words are nuanced accepting ambiguity and uncertainty.
MurphTheSurf3
15 minutes ago
Guys, I’m just following your lead.
twilson117
15 minutes ago
TW…do not short change your incredibly insightfulness….I stand in awe rather frequently….your writings superb.
MurphTheSurf3
14 minutes ago
Murph – I have zero idea of how the Repubs end up choosing a speaker. There is so much bad blood now, especially against Jordan and the hard right MAGAs, I think they don’t want to reward the destruction of their party and power by letting Jordan or any far right MAGAs have power. The only sensible direction is for 5 Repubs to work out a power-sharing plan with the Dems and vote in Jeffries. But Repubs are so nihilist, I think they’d rather destroy the House and the US than be bipartisan.
AdLib14 minutes ago
Murph appreciate that.
twilson117
13 minutes ago
Murph – I think a huge difference is what Jews endured through WWII, so horrible but not something Germans had any history of experiencing, It’s left probably a majority with concern and compassion towards any who are oppressed. But the power of fear mongering helps put madmen into power…as we in the US well-know.
AdLib11 minutes ago
Ad…I see your point but there are 30 or so GOP House Members who represent transitional areas that shift from Reddish to Blueish election to election……they are key players here as are the GOP who are institutionalizes (honoring Congress) although not very many of them…they are ground upon which a compromise Speaker could walk.
MurphTheSurf3
11 minutes ago
Yep, this is a “mixed cocktail” of remarkable conversation, all of us together with our own views and sensibilities make it into the remarkable experience it is.
AdLib10 minutes ago
Speaking of Jordan, have either of you read the Fani’s Willis’s response to Jordan? In her way she told Jordan to go pound sand and essentially to stop bothering her as she a trial to get ready for.
twilson117
10 minutes ago
Ad…..the Germans who lived-in one of the most urbane, civilized, educated and religious nations in Europe would embrace Nazism is a warning that barbarism lies in most just below the surface.
MurphTheSurf3
8 minutes ago
Murph – I don’t know, each of those 30 or so Repubs who are not RW MAGA extremists may be opposed to MAGA nuts like Jordan being speaker but they have to worry to that any cooperation with Dems will get them primaried in 2024. They are cowards afterall. I don’t hold out too much hope for them. Perhaps the only way forward is to change the rules to let the pro tempore Speaker have the powers of a full speaker and limp along like that until Dems take over in 2025?
AdLib7 minutes ago
Friends, I need to call it a night. I hope that better news greets us next week. I hope that my friends are found. I hope that the spirit of gracious wisdom has it sway in our world….but I fear that I hope in vain.
MurphTheSurf3
6 minutes ago
Murph you take care it’s always good to talk with you.
twilson117
6 minutes ago
TW – As always, I loved Fani’s dunking on Jordan and calling him ignorant. There is literally nothing that he can do to force her to testify or provide documents. And considering he ignored a subpoena, she should tell him, “After you, Jimmy boy!”
AdLib6 minutes ago
Ad the 30 or so are from districts that are bluish/reddish…..MAGA primary challenges will have little impact there.
MurphTheSurf3
5 minutes ago
Murph – Yes, Germans had sophistication but that is very different than empathy, which victims of atrocities develop.
AdLib5 minutes ago
AD: “After you, Jimmy boy!” Z-I-N-G!!!
MurphTheSurf3
4 minutes ago
Murph – Will be sending out good thoughts for the family members of your friends who are missing. Awful.
AdLib4 minutes ago
Murph – Granted but having to throw away their money and get beaten up in a primary is something most cowardly Repubs would want to avoid. They’re spineless.
AdLib3 minutes ago
Ad you’re spot on with that. I was laughing my ass off when I read her response. I loved this part: “As the person chosen by the citizens of Fulton County to be their District Attorney, I serve them, and my team and I are exceptionally busy. “
twilson117
3 minutes ago
I used to teach the history of Nazi Germany …… and dealing with the puzzle of how Germany became Nazi is to look at the power that comes when a leadership cult offers the majority what they want to hear and deeply believe as a new gospel by which their lives should be lived.
MurphTheSurf3
2 minutes ago
None of those 30 can even come out against a criminal Trump. I don’t have high hopes for them coming out and being reasonable to save the government from being shut down or disabling The House for another year.
AdLib2 minutes ago
Well…time to say good night for now….if I get news this week I will let you all know.
MurphTheSurf3
a minute ago
Murph – You nailed it. Exactly, and we’ve seen that here with Trumpers as well.
AdLiba minute ago
Sounds good, keep us updated, Murph!
AdLiba few seconds ago
Up for a call, TW?
AdLiba few seconds ago
Murph I may have mentioned this book to you before, but Strongmen by Ruth Ben Ghait is an excellent book that covers Hitler, Mussolini and others.
twilson117
in a few seconds
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