Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PST. Hope to see you then!
AdLiba day ago
That you, TW?
AdLiba day ago
You’re not signed in yet.
AdLiba day ago
Hey Murph!
AdLiba day ago
Nope….it’s me…early for a change.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Heh!
AdLiba day ago
You get the hors d’oeurves when they’re fresh.
AdLiba day ago
Not to mention the top shelf liquor
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW is here but not signed on, guess there’s an issue.
AdLiba day ago
Can someone do that…be here and not be signed in?
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Yep, if you’re not signed into your account, you can read Vox but appear as a “Guest”.
AdLiba day ago
Hey TW! There you are!
AdLiba day ago
Good evening everyone.
twilson117
a day ago
Ah…there is TW…the phantom.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad….I did not know that…
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Yep, anyone’s welcome just to drop in and read along, don’t even need an account at The Planet.
AdLiba day ago
Ad…..how welcoming!
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
So…I’d guess you’ve both seen the video?
AdLiba day ago
Murph The Phatom was one of my favorite comics in the newspaper
twilson117
a day ago
TW….really? Why?
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad…yes, I have seen the videos.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad yes I’ve seen it.
twilson117
a day ago
Notice, so far there is no rioting because the sharp police chief and DA acted quickly to fire and charge the murderers?
AdLiba day ago
ad…..good observation.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Murph I just thought it was so cool that the someone could do what he did.
twilson117
a day ago
TW…can you say more about that…..
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
It’s the fruustration that killers usually seem to get away with killing young black men and women just because they wear a badge. This swift action defuses that justifiable anger and frustration.
AdLiba day ago
Murph and there was great back story as to how he came about.
twilson117
a day ago
Ad I saw the video and it was hard to process regardless of how quickly action was taken.
twilson117
a day ago
I saw a very pissed off BLM rep on MSNBC laying down truth that all those talking about “training” are full of BS, saying to just wait until training changes things. Wait, how long? That was a clear point she made.
AdLiba day ago
TW….the Phantom has been branded as jingoistic, imperialistic and racist……I take it that is not your take.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
It’s not at all about police training, it’s about police feeling free of consequence to throw around their power and brutality.
AdLiba day ago
TW – Did you see The Phantom movie?
AdLiba day ago
Ad, no it’s not, it was just a damn comic strip written at a time that type of story was popular. Hell, they could say that about Superman and Sgt Rock of Easy Company, granted they were Comic books but very ,much along the lines of what you just said.
twilson117
a day ago
I have been a witness to heated debates between fire fighters and police officers about the differences in philosophy, and culture that shape them.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad yes I saw the movie they need to do a remake in my opinion.
twilson117
a day ago
I think a federal law should be passed that strips police of qualified immunity AND forces the police department, police union and individuals who are guilty of paying all judgements for wrongful death and abuse. I guarantee, the rampant killings would stop quickly.
AdLiba day ago
Why should police be granted immunity? What is the principle that those granted great power should be free from responsibility of abusing it?
AdLiba day ago
A fire fighter friend frequently points out that the police make a point of emphasizing how important it is for their officers to be safe, sound, and well at the end of their shifts (which then become their primary motivation) while firefighters regularly say that the first duty of a fire fighter is to be willing to give his life.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad I heard what she was saying and 98% of what she was saying was spot on the 2% that I have a problem with is something folks don’t realize and that has to do with the budgets of small town police departments.
twilson117
a day ago
That’s just crazy. And police unions are just plain evil and sociopathic, they express disdain for the lives of everyone other than cops. They need to be reigned in hard.
AdLiba day ago
Murph – So true, firefighters knowingly put their lives on the line to save people. Cops excuse their brutality and murders of innocents on, “I had to protect myself, I felt threatened.” Completely opposite motivations as you said.
AdLiba day ago
Ad not disagreeing with you but is that the job of unions, there members first management last?
twilson117
a day ago
I learned a lot about the dichotomy when I lived in New York….9/11. Firefighters regularly pointed out that as the police were charging out of the towers, their people were charging in.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – Good point, nobody’s 100% right, especially aggressive activists but 98% is pretty good. She did put her finger on the real problem, the problem of mindless fury, ego, and lack of self-restraint as well as there being no incentive for one of them to intervene and prevent a raging cop or multiple ones, as in this case, from assaulting citizens.
AdLiba day ago
TW – Not exactly, unions are definitely about protecting and improving the lives of their members…but not at the sacrifice of the lives of others. Police unions are mercenary, they justify the most brutal and unwarranted attacks by out-of-control cops against innocent people. Can’t name any other union in the country that does that.
AdLiba day ago
Ad I will say this, I will be thinking about this situation and video for some time.
twilson117
a day ago
And police unions are a one-of-a-kind union. No other union represents people who have extraordinary power over the majority. The reason for unions is just the opposite, to band together those who are otherwise powerless to stand against the powerful corporations and bosses.
AdLiba day ago
Ad I agree police unions are a different breed.
twilson117
a day ago
Side note- one of the very sore points between the police and firefighters in NY is that the police had up to date communications system while the firefighters were using much outdated ones. Why? The mayor needed the budget money and thought the police needed them more (not to mention that the police union was far more fervent in its support than the firefighers. And, did you know that the reason that mayor was roaming the streets in the aftermath (and acting the hero for doing it) was because the emergency command center was in the Towers in space that the mayor wanted filled so he filled it with city monies for the command center. That mayor- Giuliani.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – Same here. Those who haven’t had to live with institutionalized racism threatening them as a potential any day they walk out their door have to really think about the lives of their neighbors and friends who’ve had to have “the talk” from their parents and as parents.
AdLiba day ago
Murph you hit on a major point. Budgets for Firefighters and Unions especially in big cities. It’s always a fight who will get what, and it seems it comes down to which union showed up more at rallies in support of the mayor.
twilson117
a day ago
TW- that makes sense as well…..
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Murph – Yes, I knew that and it made me furious that people praised Giuliani and called him America’s Mayor when he was personally responsible for the communications going out in the Twin Towers and the deaths of so many of those police and firefighters were on his hands.
AdLiba day ago
Ad….I suspected you knew this…..G was and is a snake.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL is in the house
twilson117
a day ago
Hello choice….
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Very simply, it’s the power dynamic. Police have power and firefighters don’t. Police can kill and harass, they can have a sickout and let people be harmed and killed, mayors also depend heavily on them to reduce crime to support their re-elections. Firefighters just save people’s lives and homes, that’s all.
AdLiba day ago
Hey CL!
AdLiba day ago
Hi ya’ll! Hope you’re well! Sorry I’m late. The salmon was awkward. Good though!
choicelady
a day ago
Ad….it is a culture of real, unselfish service, vs. a culture that plays at power.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
“Waiter, I’ll have the Awkward Salmon, please.”
AdLiba day ago
Ad the police do have more power than the FF that’s for sure.
twilson117
a day ago
“Can I have my Salmon ala Awk-Ward with Hollandaise, please?”
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Murph – Exactly, I think firefighters are almost the opposite of cops.
AdLiba day ago
Ad – Joyce Reid said there are three versions of policing – guardian, protect and serve, warrior. It’s this last dynamic that kills people.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad – you have a new entree! Sweeping the nation with it!
choicelady
a day ago
CL – The incentives and the ego-satisfying choice for too many cops is “warrior”. I’ve heard that before and I think it is spot on. Cops should not be warriors, they should be guardians.
AdLiba day ago
They do not speak of this often…..but there is a deep divide between those who fight fires (and make up nearly all of the EMTs and Ambulance Services) do not find the police admirable by and large.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
“And my friend here will have the Bumbling Burger.”
AdLiba day ago
OK – how do we stop this? Dunno if I told you about the time I got racially profiled. Long story that was sort of funny AND pissed me off. Mistaken identity – I’m so WASP I buzz. But I was leaving the funeral of a Mexian American woman whose son I knew. And I got followed for MILES by a Sac PD cruiser. I can ONLY imagine the thrill he got when my VERY WASP name and my husband’s French one came back clearn.
choicelady
a day ago
Murph – The motivation for many who become cops is the desire for power. The motivation for many who become firefighters is to be heroes. Huge difference.
AdLiba day ago
Ad…agreed.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
I had a conversation with a gentleman – whose name I can’t recall – who ran a training program for new police chiefs and he shared some eye opening information with me on the differences with PC in large cities and small towns like the one I lived which had a population of 15k .
twilson117
a day ago
Choice…so WASP, she buzzes……brilliant.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL – That is a creepy incident. Imagine if you were Latino though, what might have happened. BTW, did you see that Colin Kapernick produced a doc about crime in Bakersfield called Killing County?
AdLiba day ago
TW – What did this guy tell you about the differences between small and large town police?
AdLiba day ago
Ad – that’s what infuriated me. It was a FUNERAL. And they still thought they had the right to intrude.
choicelady
a day ago
CL I got stop by the local police in my former hometown and when he saw the address gave me a look of disbelief.
twilson117
a day ago
Ad – Yes – doing hate crimes work here, B’field IS the killing capital.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad budget is the major difference.
twilson117
a day ago
CL – The predatory mentality, he probably saw a bigger gathering like that as a great hunting spot for his racism.
AdLiba day ago
I had a student many years ago who was a Criminal Justice Major and History Minor. He went on to become a police officer and was rising through the ranks UNTIL…..he ordered fellow cops to stop their assault on a homeless man and when they did not he called for backup and when the backup was too long in coming, he drew his firearm and said that he was obliged to protect the innocent civilian. Moments later the backup arrived. He was, of course, fired….Years later, he is a police chief in a small town……he was blacklisted at any level higher.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – Why was he in disbelief? I’ve heard a number of very scary stories about small town police.
AdLiba day ago
Oh, TW – do you live in one of THOSE neighborhoods? Don’t keep to your “own”?
choicelady
a day ago
CL – I am very interested to see that doc, Bakersfield seems like a madhouse.
AdLiba day ago
BEST life I ever lived was in Buffalo on a totally integrated block in an otherwise white area. LOVED my neighbors cuz the one diehard racist sold his home to US. We cleaned up the street, so to speak, and had a marvelous life there.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad I was a black guy in a white Lexus RX350 SUV living in a town that had a black population that was a rounding error.
twilson117
a day ago
TW – I know small town cops may struggle with budgets but are you saying it affects them vs. big city police when it comes to abusing their power?
AdLiba day ago
TW – LOL!!! How is it people in America after ALL THESE YEARS don’t get that Black people are successful and cool?
choicelady
a day ago
CL I have stories I can tell.
twilson117
a day ago
Murph – That is an awful story that rings of truth and corruption. They mentioned a very similar story on MSNBC today where a black policewoman intervened as white cops were beating a person and she was fired, took her 10 years to finally successfully sue the force…but of course, the force didn’t pay a penny, taxpayers did.
AdLiba day ago
TW – I bet you do. I kind of got in reverse working on bulding a community owned supermarket on Buffalo’s East Side. I adored the council member who helped me, but I was always the white girl in the room. Didn’t matter to the group – but cops looked at me funny going “there” for weekly meetings.
choicelady
a day ago
CL – That is so you. Replacing the hater and spreading more joy and love.
AdLiba day ago
Ad, my former student had the double burden of being a cop and a white man who drew on fellow white cops.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad you’re right the budget is the biggest thing for small towns. It’s really funny how the people want so much but when told how much it will cost, they still demand it but don’t budget the money for it.
twilson117
a day ago
TW – I hope it was more amusing to you than upsetting. Stunned racists have the dumbest and funniest looks on their faces.
AdLiba day ago
Choice…so much of your life is a proclamation that embraces freedom and truth. So admirable.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
All – I’d think we would do well making a citizens group of every human being who lost jobs and status for doing the right thing. I’d REALLY like that. There are the four of us here for starters…
choicelady
a day ago
Murph – I know, to the other cops, it was a betrayal of “one of their own”. But the black policewoman no doubt had to put up with a lot before that in a naturally racist and misogynist environment.
AdLiba day ago
CL…..I would have to be a supporter of such a group….I must admit I have never had to make such a stand.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Murph – while I am fairly crotchety about human rights, I do and live just as you do because it brings me into contact with people I genuinely like. And therefore keeps the people I loathe away. So it has its selfish side, too.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad….trugh
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL you’ve been to Buffalo? I grew up in Syracuse and visited Buffalo twice and the was enough for me.
twilson117
a day ago
MURPH! You have done it EVERY DAY!
choicelady
a day ago
CL…very sound operation principles and philosophy.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – I know Syracuse a bit, and I like it, but I really did love Buffalo. And it had everything to do with the block upon which I lived.
choicelady
a day ago
CL…sort of….but I appreciate the all caps cheer.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad some of the incidents were not fun at all as they involved my son.
twilson117
a day ago
CL – I would happily join that club but I couldn’t claim to be one of those who loast a job or status for doing the right things. I have gotten people very pissed off at me though.
AdLiba day ago
AD…how could a people pleaser like you get anyone pissed off?
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – You had to be constantly worried whenever he’d go out. It’s horrible.
AdLiba day ago
TW – I am sorry if you had a bad go in Buffalo. I was escorting women into abortion clinics for years before that same Black council member suggested we could file a petition with the FBI on police ‘selective enforcement of the law”. It went in under my name. Gleep. And it changed EVERYTHING for the better. But it’s worse again now. That was the bad side of Buffalo. VERY bad until we did that.’
choicelady
a day ago
CL so you know Syracuse and you liked it? Okay we definitely have to talk.
twilson117
a day ago
CL…I AM IN AWE OF YOU.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad – you stand for justice every day. You don’t have to be living in a shack because of it. You just have to be vocal about justice. And then we’d add in all the people who did the right thing no matter what.
choicelady
a day ago
Thank you, Murph – I’m in awe of your stand on the coop and the Black farmers. Same thing.
choicelady
a day ago
Murph – Thanks for the kind words but when you’re in the middle of a situation and others want to do what benefits themselves or their personal agendas instead of what’s right, they can get very pissed off at anyone who stands up and says, “No, we have to do what’s right.” CL can tell you a boatload of stories about how she’s had people pissed off at her just for wanting to do the right thing.
AdLiba day ago
CL, I want to be one the list to received the first edition of you’re life story because I know it will be a best seller.
twilson117
a day ago
TW – it’s actually terminally boring! I do know I’ve had a wonderful life. I have NO regrets over any of it, even the hard times. It was all fascinating if occasionally scary.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad yes I did worry about him.
twilson117
a day ago
CL …. deep bow!
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL boring is not a word I would associate with you CL not at all.
twilson117
a day ago
Murph – I am in a permanent state of awe when it comes to CL. Every new revelation from her just cements it in more. She is a most remarkable human being that I am so proud to know.
AdLiba day ago
Ad – that IS the truth. I am a loyal friend but not a pushover, and I have been obstinate about issues where everyone just wanted me to go along. I’m not made that way.
choicelady
a day ago
Your summary is spot on…selfish orientations are often the real motives for action and not principled decision making.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL – Thanks, my friend. BTW, do you think it might just be the time to restart the HOPE initiative?
AdLiba day ago
CL one of the best written lines I’ve read goes like this: Call me Ishmael. So, Call me CL is the start.
twilson117
a day ago
I have the pleasure of knowing and HELPING Elaine Brown, former head of the Black Panthers c. 1974. She’s a force of nature. And one time she called me to wax eloquent AND angry about the non profits that raise money but do nothing. She gets stuff done. People fear her – she’s tiny but a powerhouse. That’s what I would LIKE to be. But I’m not Elaine.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad – LOL!!!
choicelady
a day ago
CL – The stories you’ve told me, like the pursuit of single payer in CA and others, where ego-mad people turned against you because you simply wanted to pave the way to make it a realistic accomplishment, was enlightening about the process and your wisdom.
AdLiba day ago
CL you just dropped another major fact on us. You definitely have something to say.
twilson117
a day ago
TW – I like that, the title of CL’s autobiography, “Call Me Choicelady”.
AdLiba day ago
CL – A tiny powerhouse…hmm…you’re not exactly the opposite either!
AdLiba day ago
Ad – my most “out of favor” moment was opposing Scnwarzenegger’s health plan. It sucked. But a group upon whose Board I sat were all for it. I was the ONLY opposition to the bill. But senators listened and voted it down because I had the facts. Did not hurt that the chair of the health committee was Sheila Kuehl who also hated it, but my citizen voice mattered. But it was an ugly three months of being a pariah..
choicelady
a day ago
Ad, CL and TW…you make such refreshing, enlightening and challenging….friends….why I get here on most fridays.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Elaine is beautiful – I’m sort of blah. But she radiates energy and power. I am more the quiet but relentless type.
choicelady
a day ago
On another topic, did you hear that the DoJ has told the FEC to drop their investigation of Santos because they’re taking over? Santos and the crooks and Russians behind his installation better be scared.
AdLiba day ago
Ad I did not hear that. I hope the nail him to the wall.
twilson117
a day ago
Ad – Ooooo – I love it when Garland flexes muscle!
choicelady
a day ago
Ad what do the folks think of Josh Hawley are they ready to feed him to the fishes yet?
twilson117
a day ago
Ad…did you hear that Santos did not go to the WH reception for new members in Congress because he was unwilling to submit to a Secret Service review of his trustworthyness
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL – The power of your conscience and principle defeated that groupthink, thankfully. And as mentioned last week, Kuehl was on the same wavelength, I’d vote for her for any office.
AdLiba day ago
Murph are the folks ready to dump Josh Hawley yet?
twilson117
a day ago
CL – So now that Schiff has announced his run for Senate, who would you vote for in the primary, him or Lee?
AdLiba day ago
TW…as a Missourian….I can assure you that Hawley is a Lazy Horror
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad I meant the Hawley comment for Murph
twilson117
a day ago
So about Garland. Having worked as a subject expert on three federal cases, w in Western NY and one in Eastern CA, I have a sense of what Garland is doing. All the emphasis on charging “seditious conspiracy” with Oath Keepers and Proud Boys is CRITICAL. How can you charge the Yam Man with fomenting a crime if you haven’t proven a crime occurred? Garland is laying the legal foundation for Jack Smith to hone in on Trump’s role at the top. Perfect!
choicelady
a day ago
Ad _ I am not sure. I don’t actually LIKE Schiff, which ultimately is irrelevant, but the question I have is which person would LISTEN to the electorate more, and I think it’s Lee.
choicelady
a day ago
Your reading of the DOJ plan is one that makes sense to me.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Murph there was something I heard about him that I wanted to bring up, but I didn’t write it down like I should of. It was something he said or did that seem like would upset the folks
twilson117
a day ago
Murph – No, I didn’t hear about Santos dodging SS background check. I think he’s so into denial and he’s reveling in having conned his way into The House and getting all this attention, he doesn’t think past today to how he will be put in prison before his term is up or soon after.
AdLiba day ago
Hawley says so many off putting things and does so little that it would be hard to id a single moment.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
TW – Yep, figured you were asking Murph about Hawley. Hope Kunce could beat him out!
AdLiba day ago
Murph – Maybe you all are better off that he IS lazy? Doing nothing is better than doing harm.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad…..how unusual, an egomaniac in the Congress.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Ad so Santos is dodging an SS background check? Oh that’s funny.
twilson117
a day ago
CL – I’m hopeful you’re right but the DoJ will need to act before Summer is over or once the presidential primary season starts up in the Fall, there could be all kinds of trouble with indicting Trump.
AdLiba day ago
Hawley is a moaning, groaning, do nothing. Kunce is raking him across the coals every day.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
CL – I like Lee and would happily support her. I think Schiff will have the edge though, over Porter too. What do you think?
AdLiba day ago
Well folks…I am heading for bed…..this has been very invigorating
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
See you next week.
MurphTheSurf3
a day ago
Take care Murph
twilson117
a day ago
Murph – Do you think Hawley would ever debate Kunce? I think not, Hawley is a coward, he’ll run away from a debate like he did from the Capitol on 1/6.
AdLiba day ago
Ad – With one of the global experts on tyranny, Smith will indeed act and soon I think. He would NOT have left ICC to do NOTHING. He’s known to be swift and decisive. But it is essential the CRIME is itself proven, and DOJ is doing that.
choicelady
a day ago
Bye, Murph!
choicelady
a day ago
Did you see Kunce’s ad about running in MO? It was vicious and wonderful against Hawley.
choicelady
a day ago
CL – I am very bullish on Smith, I think he will act as soon as he can but this document biz with Biden and Pence seems to have delayed his action on indicting Trump for the doc theft. Maybe not but that case made itself, what more evidence could they possibly need to charge him for that?
AdLiba day ago
Ad, CL did you read the Times report on Barr’s failed investigation
twilson117
a day ago
CL – Yes, saw that Kunce ad and I thought, this guy is very good, he ran in the primary for Senate in 2020 but got buried by a wealthy stalking horse who handed the race to the Repubs. A Busch heiress.
AdLiba day ago
Well, I’ve had VERY little sleep. My new glasses are WORTHLESS, all wrong, and I’m faiding, too. AD – I don’t think Smith is flapped about the docs at all. Clear as a bell. But it has been important to get convictions on the underlying crime to prove Trump organized it. RICO style. And that’s almost done. THEN he will act.
choicelady
a day ago
Ad – I forgot that heiress. Well, next time…! Good night, dear friends. See you next week.
choicelady
a day ago
CL – I meant the docs case, that needs no ground to be laid, the evidence is right there.
AdLiba day ago
Well TW, shall I call you?
AdLiba day ago
I will call.
twilson117
a day ago
Ok!
AdLiba day ago
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