Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PST. Hope to see you then!
AdLib3 hours ago
Hey TW!
AdLib2 hours ago
Hey Ad,
twilson117
2 hours ago
How are things your way?
AdLib2 hours ago
Looks like we’ll have a lot to talk about
twilson117
2 hours ago
No kidding!
AdLib2 hours ago
Things are fine, no snow yet
twilson117
2 hours ago
What’s at the top of your list? Maybe, is Santos Claus real?
AdLib2 hours ago
I’ve started reading some of the transcripts but not the final report yet
twilson117
2 hours ago
That’s good to hear!
AdLib2 hours ago
I haven’t read the report yet but it appears that Meadows was burning classified documents. He is like them, toast.
AdLib2 hours ago
Santa Claus isn’t on my list, but considering what dropped this week I just might start believing he’s real
twilson117
2 hours ago
Yeah rather crispy I would think
twilson117
2 hours ago
I was referring to George Santos, the lying Repub fraudster.
AdLib2 hours ago
My niece is out here from Chicago, she got out here okay days after the arctic storm.
AdLib2 hours ago
Oh Santos well, what do you thinks the odds are as soon as he is sworn in he will resign
twilson117
2 hours ago
Hey PPO!
AdLib2 hours ago
PPO in the house
twilson117
2 hours ago
Hey PPO
twilson117
2 hours ago
HiAd, TW
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
Ad we have sound effects? Like it.
twilson117
2 hours ago
PPO how are things down your way and what do the folks think of what is happening to Trump?
twilson117
2 hours ago
TW – I think Santos will be sworn in, He is a fraudster so he has no shame and the House Repubs only care about being the majority. The GOP is a joke, has been especially since Trump but this seals the deal. I do think Santos has committed money laundering and other election finance crimes, he will be prosecuted and eventually removed from office.
AdLib2 hours ago
Surely Santos can’t be sworn in with a history of lying?
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
TW – We’ve always had sound effects, don’t know why you haven’t heard them before but they’re fun!
AdLib2 hours ago
Ad, where are the SAs?
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
PPO sadly he can as he won but he can undergo an ethics inquiry
twilson117
2 hours ago
SEs sorry
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
PPO – There is no constitutional way to prevent Santos from being sworn in but The Speaker can refuse to seat him though the Repubs won’t refuse. Santos will need to be convicted first.
AdLib2 hours ago
Ad this is the first time I heard them
twilson117
2 hours ago
Ad he will get seated Kevin needs all the votes he can get.
twilson117
2 hours ago
I have swiched sound on
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
PPO – On computers, you’ll hear a “BEEP” sound whenever a comment is posted. It doesn’t work on phones and iPads though.
AdLib2 hours ago
Hey Murph!
AdLib2 hours ago
Murhpy is in the house
twilson117
2 hours ago
Hi Murph. All, 10 hours here to Midnight and 2023. Watch the Sydney Fireworks!
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
TW – Yep but don’t know if Kevin will see his life’s dream explode in his face and lose the speakership to Jordan or some other MAGA loon.
AdLib2 hours ago
PPO not fair we don’t start the countdown until tomorrow 
twilson117
2 hours ago
PPO – Very cool! Don’t forget to leave a little New Years for those of us farther in the past.
AdLib2 hours ago
Ad I hope he does lose I want to see that grown man cry
twilson117
2 hours ago
In this neck of the woods, Male Karens are called ‘Kevs’ Appropriate for the hopeful Speaker. A Real Kev!
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
CL!
pinkpantheroz
2 hours ago
CL is in the house
twilson117
2 hours ago
TW – Same here. We know Kevin would be as bad as a MAGA as Speaker, he’ll bow to their every order. So at least crush the spineless jerk’s lifelong dream and make the face of House Repubs someone truly horrible.
AdLib2 hours ago
Ok…..I am all caught up…….Happy New Year to the Land of Oz….tick, tick, tick…….And Santos…the poster boy for the dominant GOP info-culture. Lies are GOOD.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Hey CL!
AdLiban hour ago
Murph you nailed it on Santos
twilson117
an hour ago
Hello and Happy New Year!!! Hi PPO – getting any “fishing” in Christmas Day? Good to see you all. Lovely way to finish off 2020, too, as one curmudgeon called this year.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad, Murph, PPO, and tw – lovely to see you all.
choicelady
an hour ago
It truly has been an interesting year
twilson117
an hour ago
Now that the 1/6 report is out and more facts are coming to light, I think the DoJ will have Meadows’ naughty bits in a vice and they’ll get him to turn on Trump. If he does, Trump will go to prison.
AdLiban hour ago
Hello to one and all……my first Ukrainians have arrived!
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Only thing I caught, cl was sunburn!
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
tw – I know that the saying “May you live in interesting times” is supposed to be a Chinese curse and isn’t – but I think it now is a curse in WESTERN culture.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL yes it is
twilson117
an hour ago
PPO – as long as the sunburn wasn’t requiring hospital attention, that’s all good.
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO – But I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas.
AdLiban hour ago
MURPH!!! – that’s wonderful!
choicelady
an hour ago
CL that proverb has been so pertinent so often!
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
No worries – I go brown quickly, but my ears peeled.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – How cool! How many Ukranians are staying with you at this point?
AdLiban hour ago
Yes Murph how many are with you??
twilson117
an hour ago
FWIW, Barbara Walters died today.
AdLiban hour ago
Congrats, Murph. Do you have a gofundme account I can send to assist?
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
PPO – ouch! Only have been burned three times, but in each case it was bad. But in all my days, my ears were never at risk. I think it’s a longer haired women protection.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL..lovely people. A mom, a teenager son, a grandmother, a girl cousin. The dad and grandad are still in Ukraine. The grandad is an electrician. The dad is in the army….in intelligence.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Barbara Walters Passed? Didn’t see that. Wow.
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad – I had not heard about Barbara! I thought she was eternal.
choicelady
an hour ago
We’re losing a lot of people
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – we will delve into how I, Queen of Amazon, can help.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL, count me in
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
For sure, PPO.
choicelady
an hour ago
I just saw, MSN.com she was 93. I had no clue she was that old.\
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO….thanks for the offer of support….the Ukrainian community has asked that their leaders be at the helm with fundraising. I think they want to know the people supporting them. My folks are serving as those who will provide services but they will fund them.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
how funny it has been to see a world champion kickboxer’s nuts in a vice by a teenager!
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – Fantastic! I know I have a lot of company in saying how in awe I am of the Ukranian people, how brave they are, how they stand together and really put the welfare of the many first. Those who are refugees here are no different than Jews who fled Nazi oppression and attacks.
AdLiban hour ago
PPO – Greta made my day. I don’t know if she turned him in or not, but he did it to himself. The ego gets ahead of sense. And there you go – to prison.
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO….I am not getting your reference to the world champ kickboxer. Perhaps I am being dense.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Apparently, Walters had severe dementia and was housebound.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad at that age it’s common, my mom has that she is the same age as Walters, I’m just waiting for the call to come in to tell me she is gone.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – Greta Thurson is it? The activist on climate, was being harassed by a trumpian kickboxer. In fighting BACK against her, he videoed himself in a Rumanian pizza place with the NAME very clear, and was then arrested by Rumanian police on sex trafficking of minors charges. His (ego) led him to his own demise.
choicelady
an hour ago
Greta Thunberg
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Greata Thurson is one tough 19 year old.
twilson117
an hour ago
Thanks – I NEVER can recall her last name.
choicelady
an hour ago
I and several of my associates in the co-op/association went to the Ukrainian Church’s Christmas Worship Service. It was a very special morning with those of us attending being helped along in our understanding by families we were parceled out to. The Liturgy closed with an extraordinary letter from the Bishop of the American Church.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
TW -PPOI has her name correct – Thunberg.
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO – What is hilarious about this is that it is thanks to Musk inviting Tate back onto Twitter after rightfully being banned, brought about Tate attacking Greta, Greta crushing Tate then Tate busting himself with his video attacking Greta further. The pizza boxes nailed his location in Romania. Oh pizza, is there nothing you and irony can’t do?
AdLiban hour ago
Murph – you are giving me goosebumps. That’s beautiful.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL got it Thunberg.
twilson117
an hour ago
PPO….now I get it.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO you’re right with you’re reference she doesn’t suffer fools
twilson117
an hour ago
“Social media influencer Andrew Tate has been detained by Romanian police in a human trafficking case. The former kickboxer who made headlines after locking horns with climate activist Greta Thunberg on Twitter is arrested on suspicion of human trafficking, rape and forming an organised crime group. And as per media reports, a pizza box helped police to track Tate’s location. It seems like Greta,19, has had the last laugh as she took to Twitter and shared a quip about his arrest, “This is what happens when you don’t recycle your pizza boxes.”
AdLiban hour ago
So we all now now what the REAL “pizzagate” is and who did it. Tate. And he’s in Romanian (I always misspell that, too) hands. Won’t be pretty what happens to him.
choicelady
an hour ago
AdLiban hour ago
CL….at one point in the service the deacon invited all of those with immediate relatives in Ukraine to stand and then to say their names……2/3 of the congregation most speaking several names.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Show of hands how many of us plan on reading the 800+ Jan 6th report cover to cover?
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – OMG. That is incredibly moving.
choicelady
an hour ago
Beautiful, Murph.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph how large is the congregation?
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – That sounds like an amazing service. Wow.
AdLiban hour ago
TW….I am going for the various Cliff Notes that are out there….time is a precious commodity.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
So show of hands, will Trump be indicted and convicted of crimes and second, will he actually go to prison?
AdLiban hour ago
Murph that makes sense
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – I have relatives by marriage who got out of Russia c. 1905 during the pogroms. The father had fled to the USA to get settled. The wife and son (5 years old) and baby (under 1) WALKED out to Hamburg for a ship to the USA. The power of these stories never leaves me. I knew the boy as a grandfather, and his recollection was strong. We are so lucky but whine about EVERYTHING. Immigrants remind us to be greatful.
choicelady
an hour ago
And will George Santos run for president claiming to be Donald Trump?
AdLiban hour ago
Ad he will be charged going to jail well that’s another horse of a different color.
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad, he has to, or else USA is finished as the torch of Justice
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
TW….the Church membership is 500 or so……they live all over the St. Louis region. Most Sundays they have 100 attending ( different folks different weeks) but for major feasts they get 300 to 400 as they did on Christmas.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Ad – Santos is only inches away from believing he saved women and children on the Titanic, so ANYTHING he says about himself is possible.
choicelady
an hour ago
TW – I think there’s a higher threshhold for Trump to be sent to prison than just convicted and given a suspended sentance but I think that threshhold can be met.
AdLiban hour ago
PPO interesting way of putting it.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – I am so happy they found a refuge. Does your vaunted Senator do a damned thing to help them?
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad charged and not allowed to run.
twilson117
an hour ago
Choice I am coming to appreciate immigrants in a whole new way.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
CL are you talking about Howley or as I like to call him Lowley.
twilson117
an hour ago
CL – that is a powerful and profound story. The stories of refugees, those risking everything to escape violence and oppression, are among the most profound life stories I’ve ever heard.
AdLiban hour ago
CL….neither of my senators is worth a cent…….
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO – I have NO doubt Trump will be indicted. None. And I totally agree he must be. Back in ’74 lots of us who’d worked on the McGovern campaign were horrified at the pardon KNOWING it would unleash others far worse than Nixon.
choicelady
an hour ago
cl, Fergie worked on McGovern’s campaign as well. lovely coincidence.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – that was kind of rhetorical question… Here Hawley et al. have a chance to shine helping Ukrainian refugees, and yet…they don’t. Wonder why.
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO – I agree but some will make the case that a conviction is sufficient to scare off the next person who tries to overthrow the US and would be enough proof that the US is a nation of laws. I disagree as you do, he must be imprisoned, that is the only thing that could scare the next would-be dictator.
AdLiban hour ago
CL…..in 74 I was a young activist……the Nixon Pardon was, in the long run, bad for the nation…..then and now.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO – I imagine she worked in SF? At the time I was in Long Beach area. I was the PAID (badly) coordinator for two assembly districts there. Best experience of my life.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – By next week, Santos will claim to be Jesus, MLK and Superman.
AdLiban hour ago
CL…..given the wishy washy support for Ukraine in GOP circles I get their positioning….as despicable as it is.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
I think we all agree the pardon open the door for extremism. Reagan then flung it wide. I believe is he were alive, he’d have embraced Trump and all things MAGA.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad at the moment I’m in the camp that Trump kicked the door open and more will try it and what is scary about that is someone will get away with it and eventually bring our democracy down.
twilson117
an hour ago
TW – You could be right. I know some hack pundits question if the 14th Amendment would hold up as constitutional but that’s just stupidity. When an amendment is passed, it supercedes anything existing in the Constitution so banning someone from holding office is de facto constitutional because as an amendment, it IS in the constitutionl.
AdLiban hour ago
I would love to see McConnell in orange jumpsuits as well as the other pollies who rode TFG’s coattails and still do.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – I do understand, but it is without foundation. Has anyone seen that Maddow’s AMAZING podcast on Nazi collaborators in Congress: msnbc.com/ultra is going to become a film directed by Spielberg?
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Agreed though do you think Trump will be imprisoned for the crimes he’s convicted of?
AdLiban hour ago
PPO – Personal revelation – I detest the color orange save in nature. But I’m loving it for jumpsuits for the best in prison fashion for these people.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad – YES. Yes, I do.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL I’ve listened up the chapter 4 hopefully will finish over the weekend it is good.
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad, I hope that, pending the inevitable and endless appeals, TFG is held in custody pending. Otherwise he will happily sit in Mar a Lardo conning the marks – business as usual.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
TW – it is also clear enough to explain why Garland is acting as he is. He will indict the co-conspirators ALL AT ONCE then try them individually. The last segment will explain why this tactic is necessary,
choicelady
an hour ago
Murph – To avoid any future pardon of Trump, we really need Trump prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned by GA. My guess is that by the end of Feb, hopefully in January, Trump will be indicted by the Doj at least for the documents case and by the Fulton County DA in GA.
AdLiban hour ago
CL….what is without foundation? I may have lost my way in the conversation?
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
CL thanks for the insight, I’m looking forward finishing it.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – LOL – so have I!!! I scrolled up and have NO clue to what I was responding. In the immortal words of Gilda Radner: never mind.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad…I agree….a state verdict would be helpful but there are rumors aplenty about the GA state legislature expanding the authority of the Gov. to allow for a pardon such as will be needed to get Orange Man off the hook.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
All, I keep coming back to Sinclar Lewis book It Can’t Happen Here, there is so many similarities.
twilson117
an hour ago
CL – Yep, with you on that. Pardoning Nixon led to 1/6, the idea that a president can do the most illegal and despicable and anti-democratic things and not have to face legal consequences, emboldened Trump and his gang. A prison sentance of Trump would help cancel that historic mistake.
AdLiban hour ago
CL….maybe we passed through some sort of twilight zone……
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
If there are any conviictions and prison beckons, will the RWNJs and White Supremacist ‘militias’ try and start a civil war? Or will they slink away to their mothers’ basement and lick theirwounds?
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – could be….
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO I fear there are those who would welcome another CW thinking it will give the power they seek. Which shows you how stupid they are Civil Wars don’t usually work out the way people think they will.
twilson117
an hour ago
PPO……I live in the midst of UberRWNJ land……and while their numbers have diminished the dedication of the core crowd will carry them back into violence.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
TW – I’m in that camp with you. If Trump is not convicted and imprisoned, there will be another and possible successful coup attempt against our democracy because the system will have made it clear, there is no price to pay for failing at a coup…at least for those who mastermind it (the suckers who are whipped up to be the soldiers of insurrection are sacrificed without concern by the people at the top as we’ve seen).
AdLiban hour ago
PPO – the reason, in part, why DOJ is pursuing Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc. is to cut the many heads off the RW Hydra. What we need to fear is single actors. They aren’t “lone wolves” because they are radicalized online. But they are really dangerous, and we will be highly at risk from them.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad as they say, a failed coup is a dress rehearsal
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad…..I also think that a lesson learned on the right is to control of the process from the grass roots up…….thus the new spate of laws that allow for the overturning of the people’s vote.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – the reason it won’t be a war but a reign of terror is as you say – numbers are way down. But the fervor of the few is way UP. The McVeighs will act. It’s very like the OAS in France after the fall of Algiers. I expect bombings to become frequent all over the country.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad also what a lot of people are ignoring there are a lot of PB’s and Oath Keepers in the Police force and military.
twilson117
an hour ago
PPO – I can imagine that Trump will be left out of prison pending appeals but every and any BS he howls will destroy his appeals so he will likely be dead silent until the final appeal fails. Then, I’d bet he’d call on his cultists to burn down America. But it won’t work.
AdLiban hour ago
TW – that is why DOJ is cutting off the leadership. They ARE in positions of power.
choicelady
an hour ago
TW i fear they may also be in the USSS around POTUS.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
PPO I think you’re right. We have some crazies in the House and Senate.
twilson117
an hour ago
PPO – Be sure that Biden knows his USSS folks. He hand picked them. He is very aware of the perfidy within.
choicelady
an hour ago
cl from your lips…
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
A story from a couple of months ago about a small town here in Mo. revealed how many small town forces are dominated by PB and Oath Keeper. Calls for an Attorney General investigation are mumbled and ignored.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – I would expect the Repubs in GA to rattle their sabres about giving pardon power to a Gov to pardon Trump on state charges but I really think, with GA easing over to a bluer purple state, that such an action would doom any Gov who did it. As Ford was doomed for pardoning Nixon and as we know, all Repub pols care about is staying in office and in power.
AdLiban hour ago
I have a friend who has a friend whose husband is USSS. (OK – that really is a stupid sentence.) Anyway, said husband was detail to Obama and told his wife and thus my friend how horrific the threats to the Obamas were. AND how indifferent SOME agents were about it. Biden knows this. He chose wisely of his detail.
choicelady
an hour ago
Any thoughts from our crowd on the failure of the IRS to review every President’s taxes every year but failing to do this EVER in the Trump Years.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Ad the Georgia gov doesn’t have pardon power? That’s strange I thought most gov. did.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph I’m of the opinion Mnuchin told the IRS to back off.
twilson117
an hour ago
The IRS Boss and lieutenants should be fired pronto and prosecuted.
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
TW….what is Menuchin’s role in that?
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO – It’s already happening now but such a small number of extremists can’t start a civil war. They are on a campaign of shooting up power transformers and stations with the idea that if power goes out, cities will fall into havoc and then they can use that to start and win a civil war. It’s as crazy as they are, this is not how civil wars can be started or sustained. Not enough people behind actually fighting and dying for conspiracy theories and liars. What they can do though is become a domestic terrorism group that will need to be stomped out.
AdLiban hour ago
He was Sec of Treasury and he pushed back on the request when it came down which started the ball rolling on holding up Trump’s returns.
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad those Power Sub Stations shooting is indeed troubling.
twilson117
an hour ago
Well, folks it is going to be an interesting 2023. Please stay healthy and enjoy the New Year Celebrations See you next year! 
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Ad….one of the mantra’s that I hear from right wingers is that “we should take a chapter from the leftists in the radical 60’s and organize to undermine the social order….”
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO Happy New Year to you. Be safe.
twilson117
an hour ago
Murph – I think the IRS inaction is highly instructive. No – there is NO “deep state” that acts autonomously. Every agency is under the administrations’ thumb, so it’s incumbent on voters to determine what party and person should direct them.
choicelady
an hour ago
TW…ah….I was focused on the IRS boss , but Treasury makes a lot of sense.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO – Happy New Year!!!!
choicelady
an hour ago
PPO…Felix Novus Annos
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
PPO – love to you – see you in July!
choicelady
an hour ago
See you then!
pinkpantheroz
an hour ago
Murph – I would have been surprised if the IRS did follow the law under Trump. Think about how intentional and focused Trump had to be at the start to keep the IRS from doing the standard annual audits of his tax returns. This was from the start, he corrupted so much of the government, it is a bit astounding how there are so few safeguards against a dictitorial president.
AdLiban hour ago
Murph also the IRS is seriously underfunded do to the Repub who kept cutting their budget.
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad….you paint a very damning portrait of Trump as Dorian Grey.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – and how well did the 60s radicals do? We who worked for change v blowing things up really DID change America. But the zealots on our side were NO more effective than the zealots on the Right.
choicelady
an hour ago
All what Trump did was find all the weak spots in the government and pushed on them util the bent to his will.
twilson117
an hour ago
CL….your thoughts on the radicals is very rational…and historical….which is why it has no appeal to the ultra right.
MurphTheSurf3
an hour ago
Murph – I look at Trump and think he forgot to GET his portrait painted. All the ugly and slime show in him in person.
choicelady
an hour ago
Murph – The big problem for these morons is that they don’t have the popular support that the anti-war movement did in the 60’s and 70’s. Yes, there was a close split among Americans but that is not the case with Civil War, 1/6 seditionist groups. They are a tiny minority and they’re already trying their anti-LGBTQ and anti-Women’s-Rights protests in tiny numbers. Too few of them but they think they’re a majority. And as for the PBs and OKs in law enforcement, I think the convictions from 1/6 will scare most of them off from participating in sedition, even if they’re online advocating it.
AdLib44 minutes ago
CL…Trump expected to have a lot of time to cement his legacy in many forms during his second term.
MurphTheSurf3
44 minutes ago
Murph reference to Dorian Gray, nice. I’m inclined to go toward Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
twilson117
44 minutes ago
Murph – Really like the Dorian Grey reference. And the DoJ is destroying Trump’s painting, his crimes are now withering him.
AdLib43 minutes ago
Ad….hoping you are correct…..but Denial is not just how you mention a river in Egypt.
MurphTheSurf3
43 minutes ago
Murph – even my organization has zealots from DSoc days, clergy though they be now. They gripe the hell out of me with their “let it collapse and WE will fix it” mantras. Oh? You have done eff all just to reform stuff, but sure. You’re late middle age and yeah. Right and Left extremes are mostly bogus. All talk, no show. Who worries me are the loner zealots with AR-15s and bombs..
choicelady
43 minutes ago
CL…we know a lot of the same people I see.
MurphTheSurf3
42 minutes ago
TW – Democracy is full of “weak spots” because it depends on the good will of those in charge to follow precedent and act in the best interests of the people. It is very hard, as we’ve seen, to install powerful checks and balances against the corrupt especially since those in power would have to pass such checks against themselves.
AdLib41 minutes ago
AD….look to the SCOTUS as a prime example of subversion of fundamental elements in our democracy…..what in the hell needs to be done to restore some balance there?
MurphTheSurf3
40 minutes ago
Ad you’re correct, which is why when Franklin said if you can keep it.
twilson117
40 minutes ago
Murp[h – LOL! Yes. My ‘radical contingent’ are mostly, gasp, Lutherans – ELCA not RW. DRIVE ME NUTS! I’ve done more, had more violence in my life than they have. I’ve done hand to hand battle on the streets. They have not. And yet they think it’s cool to project my toughing it out with the religious Rights etc. Well goodie – what will YOU be doing while I am having laser sights trained on my chest? Real thing. Silence from the pretend macho men.
choicelady
40 minutes ago
CL – That was the Susan Sarandon mentality, let Trump win and then things will get so bad the Left will be supported to come in and fix everything. Uh…Sarandon didn’t know there was this thing called The Supreme Court apparently.
AdLib39 minutes ago
CL…we definitely know members of the same Cabal….ultra’s to the left or right have very similar modi operandi.
MurphTheSurf3
38 minutes ago
We lose the courts it’s down hill all the way.
twilson117
38 minutes ago
EXACTLY, Ad. And THAT is a recycling of the KPD Weimar German attitude toward Hitler – let him destroy Germany, and “WE” will fix it. Sure. How’d that work out? And yet we hold that as a policy TODAY? “After Hitler, us.” ? “After Trump, us”??? No. It doesn’t work, and I will NOT sell out Americans and immigrants, and everyone who needs us on a FAILED mantra\
choicelady
37 minutes ago
Murph – Absolutely right. The SCOTUS is now a completely corrupt branch of government that is grabbing legislative and executive power with both hands as it tosses out core aspects of juris prudence including stare decisis. The only way to fix that is if Dems can win back the WH, The House and The Senate by enough to end the filibuster and expaqnd the SCOTUS. And that ain’t gonna be easy but it is possible.
AdLib36 minutes ago
CL…one of the common expressions among the german elites after Hitler’s rise to the chancellorship was that he was working for them…that they had hired him in their funding of his black and brown shirts. And how did that work out.
MurphTheSurf3
35 minutes ago
The Right and Left despise “incrementalism” for a key reason. If you normalize things such as LGBTQ equality or health care administered via existing providers, you do not need THEM, Right or Left, to give you salvation, religious or secular, from the bad guys,.]
choicelady
35 minutes ago
Ad what is interesting about the FB it’s not constitutional and never was.
twilson117
35 minutes ago
Murph – OMG. THAT I did not know.
choicelady
35 minutes ago
TW – The upside right now though is that Biden has made a huge amount of court appointments already and with 51 in The Senate, he’ll be able to make a ton more over the next 2 years. The SCOTUS is a menace but they can only hear so many cases in a year while the dozens and dozens of Biden-appointed judges will be laying down the law all across the country.
AdLib34 minutes ago
Ad….you see the Scotus in the same way I do……ultra powerful with virtually no checks on its power.
MurphTheSurf3
34 minutes ago
TW – not following – the FB?
choicelady
33 minutes ago
Murph – until quite recently, we never NEEDED checks on SCOTUS. We are now challenged to find a way that doesn’t do harm and does do good.
choicelady
33 minutes ago
CL…..in my life as a political historian I taught a course titled: The Corruption of German Government fro Bismarck to Hitler. The elites had a long history of seeing figures like these as their agents.
MurphTheSurf3
32 minutes ago
CL – Nicely said, history shows again and again that “letting” extremists take power because it’s thought that once the people see how bad fascists are, they will support democracy is insane because once fascists take power, there is no democratic way to remove them from power, the whole theory is idiotic.
AdLib32 minutes ago
Murph How Democracies Die covers that it talks about how Hitler did what you descripbed.
twilson117
32 minutes ago
Murph – that is an insight I’d never read elsewhere. Thank you.
choicelady
32 minutes ago
CL fillerbuster.
twilson117
31 minutes ago
Tw….good touch point….How Democracies die….
MurphTheSurf3
31 minutes ago
Oh – Ok. No, it’s NOT Constitutional. It’s merely a rule.
choicelady
31 minutes ago
CL yes and a bad one at that.
twilson117
30 minutes ago
CL…the Supreme Court has taken us down dark paths before….recall Taney’s court and Dredd Scot.
MurphTheSurf3
30 minutes ago
TW – I no longer see ANY value in the filibuster.
choicelady
30 minutes ago
Murph – SOunds identical to the GOP Establishment holding their noses and supporting Trump because they saw him as a vessel for their plutocratic ambitions. But they put power in the hands of a madman who didn’t care that they just wanted his hand to use a pen on their behalf, he wanted to be a dictator over everyone including them.
AdLib30 minutes ago
Murph Yes I do.
twilson117
30 minutes ago
Ad…that is how I see it…..
MurphTheSurf3
29 minutes ago
Ad what the Repugs did was what a number of countries did and it cost them.
twilson117
29 minutes ago
Murph – I will slightly disagree on Tawney. He was upholding the laws of the time. That was the “correct” decision, but it was by no means a humane one. Once the Constitution remanded Black slaves to the 3/5 status, he had little choice. But once WE decided all people are EQUAL, and we ratified that IN the Constitution, it changed everything.
choicelady
28 minutes ago
CL…..originally the filibuster was argued as a brake on major decision making made by a narrow majority……I never understood the logic.
MurphTheSurf3
28 minutes ago
All, I believe we have another problem is the gen pop pays more attention to celebs than what is going on in their government. I’m will to bet if you ask them to name the three branches many won’t be able to tell you.
twilson117
26 minutes ago
Murph – Yes, the hypocrisy of Repubs is absolute. They decried the SCOTUS as “an activist court” because they opposed its constitutional decisions. Now we have a court that tears up the constitution and precedent and they cheer it on because it advances their goals. The SCOTUS is out of control now and we are headed towards an enlargement of the SCOTUS or eventual civil disobedience by states against SCOTUS decisions. Then the power of the SCOTUS is decimated and overall, that would not be a good thing but short term, it would strip power from the hands of these extremists. Bottom line, we need to enlarge the SCOTUS to dilute the power of extremists and pass court reform in Congress that ties SCOTUS hands on what cases they can hear and what ethical guidelines they must follow,
AdLib26 minutes ago
Murph – agreed,. But even more it lost its “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” power. File a paper, go to Cancun. That’s despicable. If you WANT it, then stand on your feet, address the ISSUE (No “Green Eggs and Ham” nonsense. Make it mean something with 2/3 of the Senate forced to sit there and listen. You’d see very few Mr. Smiths.\
choicelady
25 minutes ago
CL….Taney’s court embraced a broad philosophy of the innate inferiority of African for whom slavery was a “natural state.” and a free African, by nature, an abomination. He advocate for the expansion of slavery into the West and argued that the blocking of slavery in “free states” was unconstitutional.
MurphTheSurf3
24 minutes ago
Ad….your summary of the court as deviant is one I concur with.
MurphTheSurf3
23 minutes ago
CL…..you identify something I missed…..the nature of the filibuster was altered by the “modernization” of its rules and practices.
MurphTheSurf3
22 minutes ago
TW – I once worked a lovely but losing congressional primary and had a call Rod hance to call Rod Serling, creator of the Twilight Zone to endorse our great guy., He REFUSED on those exact grounds – people listen to celebrities NOT to the candidate. It was a really solid and useful conversation that I respected then and more now.
choicelady
22 minutes ago
Well, perhaps someone will bring charges against Thomas that will force him to resign.
twilson117
22 minutes ago
Let’s face it, The Founders were brilliant in many ways but they made many extreme compromises they believed were necessary to actually form the U.S. The biggest and most vile was slavery. Proof that The Founders made a terrible compromise in our democracy’s structure is the makeup of The Senate, it is intentionally anti-democratic and came out of protecting slavery and the power of the South to retain it so of course, it is a poison in the makeup of our democracy. The Senate should also be based on population if Congress is to represent all Americans. That will never change so American Democracy will forever be hobbled by a compromise made hundreds of years ago to protect slavery. Put that in your CRT and smoke it, Repubs.
AdLib21 minutes ago
Murph – yes, but what LAW, statutory or common law, did Tawney have to draw on? Nothing. Now there is ZERO rationale for discrimination, and yet Alito and others think there is. WRONG. I cannot blame Tawney. I can blame today’s court.
choicelady
20 minutes ago
TW…..Thomas will never resign I fear…he will count on the inability of impeachment to bring those who are out of control to exit and boot them out…..
MurphTheSurf3
20 minutes ago
CL – Too bad that you couldn’t get an endorsement but you got to talk to Rod Serling!!! And of course, he had a principled position on it. What a guy he was!
AdLib19 minutes ago
Ad….another insightful summary.
MurphTheSurf3
19 minutes ago
CL I stared a piece about the Deep/Heard divorce using it as a compare/contrast more interested in what goes on in celebrities lives that what takes place in our government.
twilson117
18 minutes ago
Murph – the co-conspirators including Ginni, will, I think be indicted at the same time soon. Following the 1944 experience, they will be TRIED individually. And Ginni will go down. This will be tied to Clarence who will either stand down on these cases or be sanctioned. There ARE remedies. We can use them.
choicelady
17 minutes ago
CL….indeed….and, as is happening now, Taney had control of a court that was quite willing to set aside core principals based not on the law but on an economic/political “must”.
MurphTheSurf3
17 minutes ago
TW – Thomas wouldn’t resign if a recording came out of him cheering on the 1/6 seditionists. Repubs have jettisoned shame and personal responsibility from their minds. They don’t possess any at this point. Look, Thomas voted to prevent Congress from seeing WH communications that he knew his wife had with Trump campaign people on overthrowing the government. And yet he wouldn’t resign, let alone recuse himself. Nope, these extremists have no sense of decency, they need to be forced out of power.
AdLib16 minutes ago
TW – I totally agree, and it underpins Rod Serling’s refusal. He did NOT see himself more interesting than a fight for Congress. Can’t say that about ALL celebrities.
choicelady
16 minutes ago
I would be very pleased if Ginni were compelled to wear an orange jump suit but I would be very surprised if she is indicted because of where Clarence sits.
MurphTheSurf3
16 minutes ago
Murph – Thanks!
AdLib15 minutes ago
CL there are some who are activists and for good governing.
twilson117
15 minutes ago
Before I head for the door…..Trump’s tax returns say SO MUCH about SO MANY of his deep faults.
MurphTheSurf3
14 minutes ago
Ad I hate to admit it, but think you’re right about Clarence. 
twilson117
14 minutes ago
CL – Do you really think Ginny will be indicted? Seems like Liz Cheney intentionally protected her by not releasing her testimony or making her testify publicly, I’m concerned DoJ would worry about intruding on checks and balances to pursue her and Thomas but IMO, they would be doing what democracy demands.
AdLib13 minutes ago
All – this is my take: Smith was hired to indict and convict Trump thus freeing DOJ to take on the high level co-conspirators such as Ginni, Stone, Flynn, and the Congressional axis who actually DID illegal things. If I’m correct, then yes, Ginni will be tried, convicted, and sent to prison, Clarence or no Clarence. He may become HER co-conspirator and follow her to the prison block, men’s wing. We shall see.
choicelady
13 minutes ago
CL….your scenario would make for a damn good best seller.
MurphTheSurf3
12 minutes ago
CL have to say that is a very interesting argument.
twilson117
12 minutes ago
Murph – Not that any of us are surprised but isn’t it on message that Trump lied about donating his salary? He’s a greed-driven maniac, no way could I ever imagine him giving up money he could get his hands on.
AdLib12 minutes ago
I think Liz didn’t protect anyone but left the second tier conspirators to DOJ.
choicelady
12 minutes ago
Well, my friends…..time to crawl into my knapsack. This been a great discussion…what a fine way to end the week.
MurphTheSurf3
10 minutes ago
Murph – I am widely published in VERY boring arenas, but my one hand at fiction – 8th grade – was one play and one short story, and I discovered I can neither plot nor find a decent fictional narrative that would EVER sell.
choicelady
10 minutes ago
CL – I am very impressed with Jack Smith and I do think he is aggressively pursuing Trump and many higher up in the seditionist schemes. I will keep my fingers crossed that Ginny, Flynn, Stone, Bannon, Meadows, MTG, Boebert, the person who planted the bombs, etc. all get nailed and nailed hard.
AdLib10 minutes ago
CL…I sincerely doubt that there is anything that you could not do if you put your fantastic mind to it.
MurphTheSurf3
9 minutes ago
Good night, Murph. Thank you for taking in the families. I will be more than happy to help however I can. This is so you – so caring – and I love you’re doing it. Sweet dreams and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
choicelady
9 minutes ago
CL – Maybe you’re right but the 1/6 committee released transcripts from other high profile suspects, why not Ginny? She’s about as high profile as anyone other than Trump.
AdLib9 minutes ago
Murph – you are kind, but I cannot write decent fiction to save me.
choicelady
8 minutes ago
Murph take care and Happy New Year to you. 2023 looks to be a very interesting year.
twilson117
8 minutes ago
Ad – Ginni’s are out. People are talking about them. She predictably did not say much of use. DOJ has the real stuff.
choicelady
8 minutes ago
Happy New Year with hope the year is a better one for so many.
MurphTheSurf3
8 minutes ago
Night Murph, cheers to you for helping the Ukranian family so profoundly. Hope you have a wonderful New Year along with them (and that Ukraine wins the war this year!).
AdLib8 minutes ago
OK Ad and TW – Happiest of new years to come. Talk to you next week in 2023. Have a lovely holiday. See you all soon. Good night!
choicelady
7 minutes ago
CL – Really? I heard that they weren’t released. I will check them out!
AdLib7 minutes ago
MurphTheSurf3
7 minutes ago
I would thank CL for the lovely thoughts but she’s great at making a quick exit.
AdLib6 minutes ago
I’m out as well, will see you all next year. Happy New Year.
twilson117
6 minutes ago
Sounds good, Happy New Year to you too TW! See you in 2023!
AdLib6 minutes ago
Leave a Comment