Vox Populi – 06-21-2019

Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then! AdLib 3 hours ago

Hi glenn! AdLib an hour ago

Hey, Ad, how are you? glenn an hour ago

Pretty good….considering we’re on the brink of war. How are you doing? AdLib an hour ago

About the same. It’s so insane that the TLB in the oval office could have a brain fart and just like that, we’re at war! glenn an hour ago

Hey PPO! glenn an hour ago

We all still here????? Good, then The Wimpy Kid backed off pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hey PPO! AdLib an hour ago

glenn, Ad! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO–Oh, please don’t call him that. It will just goad him into doing something that makes him look “strong”. It’s bad enough that foxsocallednews is calling him “weak”. glenn an hour ago

Ain’t m uch fun when your bluff is called. As if 150 Iranian lives mean anything to him pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Think how close he could be to launching a nuke in a tense situation with his impulsive idiocy! AdLib an hour ago

Even Fox, g? Wow. If his face weren’t so orange, it would be red! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

How did JCoS allow him to put a strike in the air without Congress approval? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Nope, it wasn’t 150 Iranian lives, he could care less about anyone else’s lives, especially when they’re not white and Christian. Someone convinced him it would hurt his re-election, he only makes decisions out of self-interest. AdLib an hour ago

More like it, Ad. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

You know, I really don’t care what motivated him to “pull back”. However, I just don’t trust him to hold off for much longer, especially if he thinks his base is seeing him as weak. Besides the news itself about him not pulling the trigger, ain’t it “wonderful” that we got the news on twitter? Is this man or his so-called press secretary (for now, at least), ever going to hold a press conference? glenn an hour ago

Exactly, Ad. glenn an hour ago

PPO – This is the type of thing and worse that can happen with spineless Dems letting Trump do whatever he wants and fearful of using their Constitutional power. AdLib an hour ago

Hey Murph! glenn an hour ago

probably not, glenn. They can’t answer any question except with a lie. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hey Murph! AdLib an hour ago

Murph! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad–I agree entirely. Dems are looking worse and worse. That being said, I would still vote for ANY Dem rather than a repub. glenn an hour ago

Hello there gang…I just read through the convo so far…… MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Nancy, pull your Spanx up and get going! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

So, what’s your considered opinion, Murph? Will he or won’t he? glenn an hour ago

glenn – I highly doubt that Iran will deal with Trump in the current environment, they have no leverage…yet. So Trump can’t last doing nothing, eventually his base will push him and he’ll start a horrible war. And what will Dems do but complain he doesn’t have authority as the war rages. Really upset with feckless Dems. AdLib an hour ago

When I get the time….and that is precious right now….I have a half written piece about how ineffective the impeachment process is because of its inherent design…..from the very beginning the whole thing limped. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

glenn – Not a question, voting for Dems is the only hope to escape assured destruction of the country but watching them bark like poodles at Trump instead of coming down hard on him is infuriating. AdLib an hour ago

Bring on the Dem Pit bulls……. oh, are there none? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – As questiionable as the impeachment process may be, it’s the only hammer Dems have and they refuse to use it as Trump drags the country into madness, autocracy and a terrible war. AdLib an hour ago

PPO–Yup! Get with it, Dems. Although, I still will never understand why the press is not camped outside of every damn republican senator’s office asking him/her what he/she is doing about the TLB’s obstruction of justice, what they’re doing about the TLB’s dismantling of the Constitution, what they’re doing about his abuses of power. Instead of the press asking Dems what they’re going to do, they should be asking repubs what they’re going to do. Stop asking Pelosi, and start asking McConnell. glenn an hour ago

Spot on, glenn. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad–I’m with you on the feckless Dems. However, the press also needs to be all over every republican’s ass, too. glenn an hour ago

Trump’s version of the story, which I do not for a second presume to be the actual events in play, creates the kind of presidential image that the GOP used to pin on Obama (feckless, inconsistent, overly reticent, fearful) which is the last thing that we want the Iranians to think of U.S. leadership given that they are fully capable of conducting asymmetrical warfare on multiple fronts using their sponsored agents to raise hell…..he endangers us more and more every day. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

The MSM in general (some are doing a good job) are slaves to the “both sides” BS that’s supposed to show even handedness. But it’s not even, going after AOC for rightly calling concentration camps “concentration camps” with more coverage than a high profile rape victim of Trump’s or his unstable decision making that almost started a war in the ME is corrupt. AdLib an hour ago

Murph–yes, the impeachment process is flawed. But, Dems still have the power of the House investigations. So far, they’ve been stonewalled by this administration, and to me, that is the problem. Every Dem should be on TV and in the press every day, asking for repubs why they’re not doing anything, given the abuses/madness/illegality going on in plain view! glenn an hour ago

The Impeachment hammer…..a hammer with only a handle and lacking a head, claw or a ball….thud, thud, thud….. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – It’s like feeling more assured when Trump says, “I was about to nuke Iran but decided against it at the last minute.” Um…reassuring, it’s not. Evidence of a weak-minded, impulsive and dangerous fool, yes. AdLib an hour ago

Hi Guest216! AdLib an hour ago

Murph, too late. The Iranians called his bluff and nor Mr Blobby is trying to be ‘humanitarian’ (Cough Cough) pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hi, Guest, welcome pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph–again, the impeachment process may be toothless, but congressional investigations should not be. So far, Dems are just going through the motions, IMO. glenn an hour ago

Hi Guest 216. glenn an hour ago

Meanwhile in Mo….my states one remaining planned parenthood clinic has decided that its doctors will NOT do unnecessary pelvic exams of their clients for whom no such exam is called for AND as a result the state has revoked its license to operate. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO–This is an aside, but speaking of “cough, cough”, did you see the way Trudeau trolled the TLB in the oval office the other day? It was priceless! glenn an hour ago

Good for them, Murph! What an utterlyevil and stupid regulation. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph–yup. Good ole MO! glenn an hour ago

glenn, sure did ! With additional eyeroll! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

glenn – The sad truth is that the House hearings have already failed and lost all momentum because of Trump’s stonewalling. They fail again and again (why wasn’t Hope Hicks in a public hearing where her obstruction of justice could be seen by all Americans? Thanks “brilliant” Dems). The only tool left in their toolbox is impeachment and Pelosi won’t allow it so this ship called America will sink as Pelosi’s Orchestra plays a song of hubris. AdLib an hour ago

There is a judge whose injunction is keeping the clinic open….he is all that stands between complete closure and the state. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad–everything you say is sad, but true. glenn an hour ago

Completely disagree Murph, impeachment isn’t about removal, it is about educating the public and putting some fear into Trump to back him up. AdLib an hour ago

Hi, Jake, welcome pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Who is to say that the stonewalling would end because Impeachment hearings have begun…why is there any sense that things would be different. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Jake, old friend, so good to so you hear…. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – Why should Dems do nothing instead of impeachment? Because their hearings are worthless. AdLib an hour ago

Hey Jake321! AdLib an hour ago

Hi back. Just dropping in for a short bit to see how this works. Jake321 an hour ago

If the current hearings are doing nothingm why will “impeachment” hearings be different. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

I worry that Dems SEEING to be doing nothing is bad for the Party and the country. IMO we can’t wait till 2020! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad–I don’t think you’re ever going to put fear into the TLB. He has gotten away with this behavior for all of his life, and now it’s just been elevated. He has absolutely no fear that he will be impeached. Dems need to put the fear into republicans who are up for re-election, and have to defend the TLB’s behavior. glenn an hour ago

Jake….this is a gabfest….we rumble right along….. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Why not? Jake321 an hour ago

Jake–just jump right in. Please just let us know to whom your comment is addressed, since we are all “talking” at the same time. glenn an hour ago

Folks…..I continue to point out that the indictment here is of the Constitution which has once again failed miserably to address issues of power in the government. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

glenn – The hearings are a failure. Impeachment is a threat to Trump, it would be Congress using its power to confront Trump and impeachment hearings could swing a majority of Americans to support removal. Then Repubs either get in the sinking ship with Trump come 2020 or follow their voters’ wishes to remove him. AdLib an hour ago

Anyway, my usual. I’m for getting him out. No matter what we do with Impeachment it will not get him out. Our only hope is 2020 since God and Skull & Bones are on vacation. Jake321 an hour ago

Ad….again, I ask, what is it about those I Hearings that will create a different environment. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

What happens if the Fool orders a strike to completion in the meantime? Russia is rattling swords for Iran now pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Jake! A Voice of Reason!!! MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – Impeachment gives The House stronger tools to get testimony and evidence, blows up the only thin reed Trump is using to stonewall, that the hearings aren’t a prosecution so testimony isn’t necessary. AdLib an hour ago

Why thanks. Jake321 an hour ago

Right, Jake. We can’t wait much longer pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad…can you name those tools? They are the same tools that reside in the committees. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – Your referring to impeachment as equal to hearings isn’t accurate. There is a price to be paid with impeachment, even having a vote to impeach is a threat to Trump. What threat is there to a hearing? AdLib an hour ago

Actually, the major test could not be another drone but Iran increasing enrichment beyond the Israeli red line. Iran seems he’ll bound on doing that soon. Jake321 an hour ago

Murph–I am not disagreeing with your assessment. However, Dems have the power of investigations–public investigations–and the power to get the Mueller report out before the public. Dems need to quit dicking around and start getting these investigations to have some power and impact. Subpoena Mueller, subpoena Don Jr., Ivanka, Kushner, and all of the other cronies who are not in jail. I think Cohen’s testimony had bite; Dems blew it with no follow up. glenn an hour ago

Ad, all very well, but the electoral maps are not changed, so the voter supression, gerrymandering, false propaganda, nasty tricks will all come into play again. Who knows if this will bring victory to the Dems? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

I think the Dems should continue to hold inquiry hearings , all in public, featuring people who will be livig examples of the Mueller report and just keep hitting the key themes…..in the meantime focus on the election. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

20 candidates is diluting the Dems. We need to whittle down quickly. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad…I am sorry but what made the impeachment inquiry work with both Nixon and Clinton was the cooperation of the Executive branch which acted according to norms that were presumed to be matters of law when in fact they were not…….stonewall……is a big fucking wall. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

glenn – Trump has shown his fear of going down in history as impeached for a long time, It upsets him, he worries about it. And the fact is, if the impeachment hearings make it very public knowledge what a criminal Trump truly is, he could get removed. What I think is a real mistake is not impeaching because of the concern that Trump may not be removed. AdLib an hour ago

Ad–I agree. I think we’re on the same page, but different paragraphs. Is there a difference–procedural-wise–or any other difference between impeachment hearings and hearings that have some bite to them? glenn an hour ago

Hate to say it but Mueller did a Comey to us and we better find another why to get Trump. Jake321 an hour ago

The only place in this entire process where there is real teeth…is in the courts and they have been corrupted, at least in part…. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Jake….and there you go..Mueller did a Comey. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – I named some already, quick court decisions forcing testimony in an impeachment because it is a constitutional and criminal investigation. Trump’s only defense for stonewalling is killed. AdLib an hour ago

But they are the way to go and if Trump pulls an Andrew Jackson maybe new grounds to go for Impeachment. Jake321 an hour ago

Jake, how about challenging the current custom (law?) that the President cannot be indicted for crimes while in office. That might be a way. It might scare the crap out of Mr. Blobby! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

“Quick court decisions” by what courts……..that are a lot of judges in place now who cannot be trusted. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph–Agree about the inquiry hearings, but Dems need to step up those hearings. No stonewalling, no refusal to appear. If a witness refuses to answer questions, hold him/her in contempt. If a witness refuses to appear, hold him or her in contempt, and literally have the Sergeant of Arms of the House arrest them! Yes, lock them up! Dammit, Dems need to quit being wimps! glenn an hour ago

The Southern Dict NY or NYS should try that. Hope they do. Jake321 an hour ago

Right on, glenn! Contempt! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO – The good news is that Dems now control the Gov seats in more swing states like PA, MI, WI, NC s those states can’t do the monkey business they did in 2016. AdLib an hour ago

Hi, CL! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hey CL! AdLib an hour ago

Evenin’ all! choicelady an hour ago

Ad, still talking 2020. nothing sooner? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Hey PPO and Ad – lovely to see you. Hey Murph and glenn and hi to Jake whom I don[‘t know. choicelady an hour ago

Choice Lady….my friend…..meet Jake321, another friend…..sharp as a razor…like a certain lady I know. The rest of you are tops too, of course! HAH! MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi back. Jake321 an hour ago

Jake–agree. Mueller did a Comey. However, I do think that Mueller was trying to follow the law, and the parameters of his position. It doesn’t help that the TLB (stands for treasonous, lying bully) and his sycophants have no respect for norms, laws, or common decency. glenn an hour ago

Hi Jake – welcome! choicelady an hour ago

CL–Hey,so glad to “see” you. glenn an hour ago

Jake–try what? glenn an hour ago

We have too many good people following the norms in a time of the distraction of norms. Jake321 an hour ago

Jake–so true! glenn an hour ago

Glenn….you do know that when the House holds someone in contempt it means nothing more than a referral to the Justice Dept and Trump’s personal attorney. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

BRB glenn an hour ago

Oh, sorry for bad spelling. On iPhone. Jake321 an hour ago

Jake – Agreed, Mueller played this like it’s 1950, not 2019. He knows his report was buried by Barr and Trump yet he feels like his job is over. He put his old fashioned approach before the welfare of the nation. And he refuses to testify in The House to help, he seems to be saying, “If Congress won’t stop the fire Trump has set, let America burn.” AdLib an hour ago

Ad…if the House cannot get Mueller to testify……good lord, who can they get….a tootthless process….everyone gumming their way into history. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Yep, and the Genrrals did the sane. Until the top guys take Trump on on his terms they will be useless which leaves the election out only real hope. Jake321 an hour ago

Murph – You really think that more of this hearings that have no public testimony or doctuments is sufficient? AdLib an hour ago

Jake – is Dems don’t follow the law, then there is no basis for solid decisions BASED in law. However long it may seem to take, it’s the key distinction between us and fascists. We MUST follow the law, never take shortcuts. We went through this in Watergate. Staying true to the law and the processes of democracy proved essential. choicelady an hour ago

The Constitution is not a suicide packet Jake321 an hour ago

PPO – With Pelosi and her Dems insisting they won’t impeach, they share responsibility for what Trump does over the next year and a half because they are making the choice not to do what they have the constitutional power to do to try and at least slow Trump down. AdLib an hour ago

And the law is very flexible as Trump proves daily Jake321 an hour ago

Honestly – did you hear today that the failure of Hicks to answer questions actually opens up new avenues of legal process? This can be taken to court to prove stonewalling. Judges will NOT like this. We went through MONTHS of this w Nixon. We won every case. choicelady an hour ago

Ad….I would do what one can….show hearings with staged witnesses who are set up to present the Mueller findings or to be buffoonishly silent and are mocked relentlessly for it…in the meantime find a way to the courts and get the states to bring charges….The House as a venue for a trial is the emperor who had no clothes….Trump and his people have exposed it. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Impeachment without removal is if little real use in the age of Ttum Jake321 an hour ago

Says very little for the once powerful house, Ad. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

So if Trump does ignite an explosive war across the ME with Iran, will Dems really be able to claim higher moral ground by not doing everything they could do to stop Trump? Will it be enough to say, “Well, we’ll win in 2020 this way!” really be a proud legacy for the Dem party if the world is set on fire before then? AdLib 44 minutes ago

Yep, use those courts. If nothing else, it drives Trump nuts Jake321 44 minutes ago

Ad – Nancy is NOT adamnat she won’t lead to impeachment. She’d adament you have to have a solid base of evidence laid down FIRST. https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/pelosi-rules-out-a-censure-of-trump-saying-if-the-goods-are-there-you-just-impeach/2019/06/19/6ddf2192-9295-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html?utm_term=.b9ff2429b0c6 choicelady 44 minutes ago

Trump has appointed 36 federal appellate judges and two supreme court justices……in doing so he has muddied the processes that we look to that might enforce procedure….well played, bastard. MurphTheSurf3 44 minutes ago

my point precisely, Ad. Act NOW, FCOL pinkpantheroz 44 minutes ago

Pelosi is doing this so the case is AIRTIGHT, choicelady 43 minutes ago

Choice….we are on the same page! I will follow Pelosi! MurphTheSurf3 43 minutes ago

Kindly read the WaPo article from three days ago .] choicelady 43 minutes ago

cl, then get on with it! pinkpantheroz 43 minutes ago

Pelosi is doing this to NOT have Impeachment which see and the top Dems have figured won’t help us in 2020 Jake321 42 minutes ago

PPO – sorry, but democracy takes time. And law takes time. This isn’t going to go quickly – the Dems have been in power for less than 6 months. choicelady 42 minutes ago

CL – There is no law preventing Dems from using the Mueller Report and its details on Trump’s crimes to begin impeachment. I think you’d agree, it is a political decision by Pelosi that it is better for Dem prospects in 2020, especially in Repub districts Dems won in 2018, if they don’t impeach. AdLib 42 minutes ago

Jake….that is how I read it. MurphTheSurf3 42 minutes ago

OK, guys n gals, I’ll leave it to you experts. But it sure is frustrating! pinkpantheroz 41 minutes ago

Back to a Trump war. His FOX folk think that will lose him the election. I think they are right. Jake321 41 minutes ago

Jake – that’s NOT what she said. It’s to lay the ground for an airtight case. There is NOT ENOUGHT information on critical issues to impeach Trump in the Mueller report. Obstruction is minimal, and Mueller never got to interrogate Jr., et al. NEVER. choicelady 41 minutes ago

I’m back, and just reading what everyone is saying. All good points. The problem, still, is republicans, so we have to have hearings that mean something, that produce actual evidence that the TLB can’t stonewall. Not sure this is possible,but what is happening now certainly is not cutting it. Dems need to start doing things differently. As for the contempt charges, Murph, I get what you’re saying, but Dems need to MAKE the TLB’s AG own this shit. glenn 41 minutes ago

PPO – Back in the 70s we were JUST as frustrated over Nixon as we are today over Trump. choicelady 40 minutes ago

PPO–FCOL???? glenn 40 minutes ago

CL – I agree, the plain obstruction Hicks followed at Trump’s behest will eventually be beaten back in court but then what? There’s still no threat to hold over her since criminal contempt would be referred to the DoJ which won’t do anything about it. AdLib 40 minutes ago

Glenn how do the dems make Barr own anything…..? Impeach him? MurphTheSurf3 40 minutes ago

Ad – if courts rule against Hicks and open things up, jail is very much on the agenda for those refuseing to testify. choicelady 40 minutes ago

glenn, For Crying Out Loud ( softer than FFS! pinkpantheroz 39 minutes ago

Here/s my question to my friends here who don’t support impeachment now. Do you think the Mueller report’s details on Trump’s crimes is insufficient to prove obstruction of justice against Trump? AdLib 39 minutes ago

Murph – impeach Barr, you get a new Barr. If courts rule he must appear, he can be jailed, fined HUGE amounts – and I think he will shift loyalties very fast. choicelady 39 minutes ago

CL…but Nixon did not go where Trump has gone…..he is overthrowing every internal norm and more, something Nixon would not do. MurphTheSurf3 39 minutes ago

CHoice….ah, the courts….excuse my lack of confidence here as well. MurphTheSurf3 38 minutes ago

Murph – no. Trump is NOT overturning everything. He speaks to shattering norms. He is doing it mostly on immigration. choicelady 38 minutes ago

In my centuries on this Earyh I’ve learned to read better the lines of what folk like Pelosi say and try to figure what they intend. She does not want the distraction if Impeachment without some gigantic new reason like Trump flips the finger at the SCOTUS. Jake321 38 minutes ago

Murph – So are you completely opposed to impeachment? AdLib 38 minutes ago

Murph–make him defend why, if the TLB is so innocent, why isn’t he willing to testify? Why aren’t his “people” willing to testify? glenn 38 minutes ago

Jake – I don’t understand your point? choicelady 37 minutes ago

CL…and I agree that impeaching Barr gets us nowhere and that is the problem…the impeachment process is flawed….start to finish. MurphTheSurf3 37 minutes ago

Bad spelling and typos. Sorry. What is said is not what is meant. Jake321 37 minutes ago

Murph–and BTW, “twitter testimony” does not count. glenn 36 minutes ago

“Hundreds of Former Federal Prosecutors Would Indict Donald Trump” https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/hundreds-of-former-federal-prosecutors-would-indict-donald-trump AdLib 36 minutes ago

CL…not everything but the norms of political culture, already in trouble pre Trump have been shattered. MurphTheSurf3 36 minutes ago

So? Hundreds wouldn’t… Jake321 36 minutes ago

Murph and all – the SOLE REASON not to start impeachment now is that it concentrates investigatory work in Judiciary. We have 14 separate investigations going on to lay airtight and impeccable evidence against #45 and his minions. When those are done, THEN you can consolidate. And Nixon was jsut as venal – he tried to start a war just as Doofus did this week. choicelady 36 minutes ago

Please excuse my scepticism, but, does anyone know if there actually WAS a strike in the air at all yesterday? pinkpantheroz 36 minutes ago

Ad….key word “Former” I need “Current” to do this. MurphTheSurf3 36 minutes ago

PPO – no. No strike choicelady 36 minutes ago

CL – Pelosi just said yesterday that she opposes impeachment because 2/3 of the Senate still doesn’t support removal. AdLib 35 minutes ago

Murph – current prosecutors are forbidden from speaking on active cases, but they are friends and allies of the ‘former’ ones. choicelady 35 minutes ago

I’m sorry to have to leave in the middle of this great conversation, but my back is killing me, so I can’t sit at my laptop any more. I love the points brought up by all tonight. Lively and intelligent conversation! G’night all! Hope everyone has a good weekend. glenn 35 minutes ago

Pelosi does not want Impeachment. PERIOD. Jake321 35 minutes ago

get better, glenn. pinkpantheroz 35 minutes ago

PPO….it does seem as if there was a strike in the offing but I do not for a second believe that things came off as T says they did. MurphTheSurf3 34 minutes ago

Murph…really? You think the opinion of career prosecutors should be dismissed because they’re not currently in the Fed gov’t? The reality is that current prosecutors are not legally allowed to give such opinions. AdLib 34 minutes ago

Glenn….take care of yourself…yes we are having a great rumble here! MurphTheSurf3 34 minutes ago

Ad – read the WaPo issue – she said when you lay down the evidence it’s for impeachment not censure. Tactically – what happens when the Senate exonerates him? TACTICALLY? choicelady 34 minutes ago

Good night, Glenn! Great to see you! choicelady 34 minutes ago

Ad….opinions do not indict. I want indictments…… MurphTheSurf3 33 minutes ago

CL – I will take all bets, Pelosi will never allow impeachment because she thinks there could be blowback. AdLib 33 minutes ago

Ad, sadly, I agree with you. pinkpantheroz 33 minutes ago

Murph – that’s why the 14 investigations are open and ongoing. They are laying the legal foundation for indictments when the Yam Man is defeated. choicelady 33 minutes ago

Yes, that drone was intentionally downed in international air space as a test of Trump. Iranians ahead on this one. As an aside, they would never test the Israelis this way. They are not that suicidal. Jake321 33 minutes ago

CL….precisely….Tactically it gives his side a big win and our side has its balloon like hopes popped. MurphTheSurf3 32 minutes ago

Murph – What do you mean opinions? They said they would indict. Any decision to indict is an opinion of a prosecutor. AdLib 32 minutes ago

Ad – that’s NOT what she has said. It’s what pundits have said. FAILED conviction is DANGEROUS. And why is worrying about winning the House and Senate a BAD thing? choicelady 32 minutes ago

It is such a pity Ad, that blowback is more important than getting Trump finally. pinkpantheroz 32 minutes ago

CL which is why defeating him and driving him from the white house is the priority. MurphTheSurf3 31 minutes ago

Jake, I agree with you and PPO. But CL and Murph are still my great friends…even though we disagree on this. AdLib 31 minutes ago

PPO – if we lose the impeachment AND the House and Senate, all our wishes for anything ever are over. Fascism will win. choicelady 31 minutes ago

If we beat Trump in 2020, he likely will not be indicted as a gesture of national unity. Jake321 31 minutes ago

Doing this WELL is imperative. Doing it for gut satisfaction but failing is disastrous. choicelady 31 minutes ago

Ad…..formers cannot indict. I want currents to do that because that is a hammer with all the parts that count. MurphTheSurf3 31 minutes ago

CL – From 15 minutes ago: Nancy Pelosi promises to fight, not impeach, Trump https://ctmirror.org/2019/06/21/nancy-pelosi-promises-to-fight-not-impeach-trump/ AdLib 30 minutes ago

Jake – not in our lifetime. He WILL be indicted. This isn’t optional – no one can pardon him. He will be indicted, convicted, imprisoned. He’s gone way past the line on treason. choicelady 30 minutes ago

That’s NOW, Ad – that’s as it should be. We are not ready to impeach him! choicelady 30 minutes ago

Well. friends…..I have another meeting tomorrow to discuss the most recent developments in the Planned Parenthood War here…… MurphTheSurf3 30 minutes ago

I really hope not, Jake. I don’t want him to profit from being POTUS and ruining so many million lives and just walk. I want him moneyless, and his blighted family. pinkpantheroz 29 minutes ago

Murph – best of luck to you. I used to know the state PP office folks, and I have totaly sympathy for your state’s plight. choicelady 29 minutes ago

No he won’t since WE made such a point about Trump threatening Clinton and said it was too much like a banana republic. Jake321 29 minutes ago

G’night, Murph. Keep sticking it to those farmers! pinkpantheroz 29 minutes ago

CL – I disagree, failing to remove a president after being impeached is not dangerous if the process is used to expose tha president’s crimes. Then, impeachment will appear warranted to the public, Repubs in the Senate who protect him will be harmed in re-election and Trump will be seriously wounded. AdLib 28 minutes ago

Jake – the issues are far different. Believe it or not, we have the ability to discern between a blow job and treason. choicelady 28 minutes ago

Murph – Current Fed prosecutors are prevented from indicting a president. AdLib 28 minutes ago

Choice….the doc’s at our PP clinic decided on Wed NOT to continue doing cervical exams that were not needed and with that announcement the state revoked the clinic licenses for a failing to comply with safety regulations. MurphTheSurf3 28 minutes ago

Ad – HOW do you remove a president if he ‘s not convicted? HOW? If that builds up his base, and he wins re-election, we’re doomed. choicelady 28 minutes ago

Due to the OLC opinion. AdLib 27 minutes ago

Ad, what about State prosecutors? pinkpantheroz 27 minutes ago

Murph – the fight is on!!! choicelady 27 minutes ago

Ad….precisely…… MurphTheSurf3 27 minutes ago

Matters not. Still it would be the image. Oh, and I hope he slips on a banana peel on his penthouse balcony Jake321 27 minutes ago

{PPO = SCOTUS opened the door to states prosecuting for the same crime BUT it cannot be a federal crime which treason is. So they could prosecute on financial crime but not espionage etc. choicelady 26 minutes ago

CL – This is the thing, the impeachment process is an educational process for the public, it informs them so even if Trump isn’t removed, a bigger majority will protest and vote against him. AdLib 26 minutes ago

CL…I think so…..I laugh when I show up at the meetings at the reactions I get…what are you ding here. MurphTheSurf3 26 minutes ago

Ad – an open, Watergate style investigation is EXACTLY th right thing for public education. choicelady 26 minutes ago

Murph – I think you missed my point. While non-professional prosecutors claim we can’t imppeach Trump now, that Mueller’s report is insufficient, professional prosecutors by the hundreds say the evidence is sufficient. Expertise over opinion. AdLib 25 minutes ago

Ad – so you think if Trump is exonerated Lefties will vote and the RW won’t? It’s exactly the other way around. choicelady 25 minutes ago

The Watergate Hearings were must see TV….at a time when there were limited broadcasts on limited channels and there was no Fox and its fellow travelers on line….AND there was a population that was politically far more literate and aware…… MurphTheSurf3 24 minutes ago

The retired prosecutors aren’t saying the Mueller report is enough. They’re observing the broader issues upon which he could eventually be impaeached AND indicted when he’s out of office. choicelady 24 minutes ago

cl, I despair that, if Trump is exonerated in any way, Dems will give up and not GOTV. pinkpantheroz 23 minutes ago

Without way more on Trump there will not be any education that will gain us any votes. But if there is a serious attempt that looks like an attempted coup to the Trumpites they will swarm to the polls and help him win in the swing states. Jake321 23 minutes ago

CL – Think about the outrage when the affluent college student who raped a girl got no punishment. Did that empower his supporters more or those who felt it was an injustice? This is my perspective on impeachment. AdLib 23 minutes ago

OR when the police officiers who wrongly kill unarmed black men are found not guilty, does that rile up the cop’s supporters more or the African American community? AdLib 22 minutes ago

Murph – the population was more aware? They elected the jerk resoundingly over McGovern. The hearings were low rated. But the breadth of the investigation did percolate out via TV and newspaprs so people could see. It took time. It didn’t happen overnight choicelady 22 minutes ago

The great middle wants done with this. They want peace and quite for awhile. Jake321 21 minutes ago

Ad – it has had very little discernible impact on women’s movement actions or on BLM actions. It IS gradually changing ‘hearts and minds’ to read about it almost daily. The very social media you worry about is helping w that awareness. choicelady 21 minutes ago

Are we all delighted that Judge Roy Moore is galloping back into our lives? pinkpantheroz 20 minutes ago

Another Mo. issue….we are losing the protections we fought for as farmers over matters related to water table pollution….a federal gov that does not care and state gov wanting to please the Monsantos MurphTheSurf3 20 minutes ago

Jake – fine about the middle. They always want that. Did in Nixon’s time, too. Watergate hearing started w 19% support (me, my McGovern allies, and a farmer in Iowa). It garnered a majority as it went on. choicelady 20 minutes ago

Murph – holy cow! I am so sorry and worried for you all! Do your farmer peers get this? choicelady 19 minutes ago

Night night all. Time to watch the Civil War and hope we don’t have another. Jake321 19 minutes ago

CL – If we could have Watergate style hearings, that would be fine with me. But I think we have to accept the reality of the current day, hearings are not going to be successful because of the court battles delaying testimony and the proximity to the next presidential election, which is why this is very different from Watergate. Nixon had just been elected and they had 3 1/2 years to spend working through hearings. We don’t have that time to inform voters which is why I think impeachment and the power it holds is what is needed. AdLib 19 minutes ago

Night, Jake. Well met. Keep your powder dry! pinkpantheroz 19 minutes ago

Watergate went through EXACTLY these hassles on court hearings and rulings – it was powerful and dramatic. choicelady 19 minutes ago

Good night, Jake! choicelady 19 minutes ago

I’ll head out for my sat. shopping. See you all next week pinkpantheroz 18 minutes ago

CL….McGovern was a victim of timing and his own politics….but my point is that Watergate Hearings were to focus of national attention. I do not believe, for a second , that this will happen in contemporary America. MurphTheSurf3 18 minutes ago

Watergate was late ’72 with the hearings 73-74. EXACTLY th same amount of time as now. choicelady 18 minutes ago

Oh, finally thought. Ford was put in to replace Nixon. That was what the great middle wanted. Some peace and quite. And who would that be today??? Jake321 18 minutes ago

The general election begins in one year, not enough time to go through the court battles and have the hearings. Pelosi knows that and is stalling for time. Will Dems or Repubs want to be mired in hearings with just months to go to campaign, fundraise and debate to keep their seats? AdLib 17 minutes ago

Jake – nobody will replace Pence. Timing is everything. If we can move the general hearings to impeachment RIGHT BEFORE the election, nobody can do anything. choicelady 17 minutes ago

Stirring discussion but I am nodding off….Good start Jake…hope you enjoyed it. MurphTheSurf3 16 minutes ago

Ad – YES the Dems will do the hearings! choicelady 16 minutes ago

CL – Nope, 1973 was 3 years before an election, we are now 18 months from a presidential election. AdLib 16 minutes ago

Good night Murph! choicelady 16 minutes ago

Nite all. MurphTheSurf3 16 minutes ago

Night Murph! AdLib 16 minutes ago

But the hearings took the same aount of time, and were right before a general for the House and Seante. choicelady 16 minutes ago

CL – I don’t think they will, they will want to be camaigning for their elections a year from now. AdLib 16 minutes ago

Senate. Dyslexia of the finger. choicelady 16 minutes ago

Not my point. We have Unky Joe to serve that purpose. Damn, have to really leave now. Bye bye Jake321 15 minutes ago

You don’t think in ’74 that was JUST as true? choicelady 15 minutes ago

CL – Not the same thing, they had 3 years before the next presidential election. We only have 18 months. AdLib 14 minutes ago

They had mere months before their OWN elections – and that’s what mattered to them! choicelady 14 minutes ago

Seeya Jake! AdLib 14 minutes ago

CL – My point though is that there will not be time for any impeachment hearings of Trump before his election since Pelosi is standing against impeachment now. AdLib 13 minutes ago

Well, we CAN argue this until Devin Nunes’ cows come home, but I also am bidding adieu. I got very little sleep last night, so I’m sagging. I’ll try to be here next week. I do NOT see Pelosi standing against impeachment per se but tactically not NOW, and I am in total agreement. It would be disastrous. He would win. We would lose. And that’s horrifying. choicelady 12 minutes ago

And it is questionable how urgently courts will decide on the stonewalling of testimony when it is only for a hearing and not for impeachment which is more urgent, AdLib 12 minutes ago

Love ya, Ad – until next week! choicelady 12 minutes ago

Love you too, CL! You’re the best! AdLib 12 minutes ago