Vox Populi – 10-05-2018

hey Ad see you soon

pinkpantheroz

Evenin’ Ad. Yeah, I’m bummed.

glenn

Kavanaugh has achieved one item of notoriety already. He has established the disgusting precedents that committing perjury is no longer a crime, and a combative politically biased mien is acceptable on the Supreme Court.

pinkpantheroz

Apart from that, what a lovely day today!

pinkpantheroz

PPO–Spot on. However, if a Dem nominee tries any of that crap, you can bet republicans will cry bloody murder.

glenn

Who is the Dem idiot that voted for him?

pinkpantheroz

It was a gorgeous day, here, too PPO

glenn

Ad–as someone has written, Collins has shown her true trumpian soul.

glenn

sad day for USA

pinkpantheroz

Ad–Dems are going to have to fight hard to win in the midterms, too. From what I understand, this has galvanized republican women. The women, mind you. What twats!

glenn

is this idiocy enough to keep the blue wave building?

pinkpantheroz

PPO–Not sure. Now the scuttlebutt among the “liberal” media is that issue has made republican women angry at Dems. At Dems!

glenn

another myth gone, that church and state are separate

pinkpantheroz

IMO, Dems need to quit framing as an issue of do you believe Kavanaugh or Dr. Ford. It needs to be framed as PPO says, as the fact that Kavanaugh, otherwise known as Brat Kegger, committed perjury, and showed a character and temperament completely unsuited for any court.

glenn

All dem god-fearin’ wimmen ‘ll now have babies galore, praise de lord! and keep the evangelicals in jet planes and McMansions.

pinkpantheroz

PPO–the myth of church/state separation was gone a long time ago, IMO.

glenn

hopefully, Ad. otherwise the US will implode

pinkpantheroz

Ad–Once again, I hope you’re right. And you may well be, they may be so happy that they “owned the libs” that they’ll stay home to gloat. I sure hope so.

glenn

Also read an article today that says Cruz will also win in TX, no matter how much of a good showing Beto puts up. The article claims that Cruz just has the “procedural” advantage because he’s the incumbent, and TX, of course.

glenn

I’m getting more and more depressed.

glenn

I’ll be interested in the CBS interview with Cruz and O’Rourke ( we see it n delay)

pinkpantheroz

Ad–good. I’ll refer you to the 2016 election once again.

glenn

Ad, projections for the Senate?

pinkpantheroz

PPO–I knew cruz cancelled the second debate. I haven’t heard anything about a CBS interview. Is it on 60 minutes?

glenn

Nope, Ad. Bianna Golodryga was down there for CBS Morning News.

pinkpantheroz

Ad–and therein lies the problem. If the House is Dem and the Senate is repub, we will see gridlock like we’ve never seen before.

glenn

PPO–Who is Bianna Golodryga and where is “down there”?

glenn

Murph!

glenn

Took a while to get the portal to work….but here I am.

MurphTheSurf3

Good to see you, Murph.

glenn

hi murph!

pinkpantheroz

Hi all……

MurphTheSurf3

glenn, bianna is a new co=anchor with Norah o’donnell on CBS this morning news. She wend ‘down there’ to Texas on her second day to inteview Cruz and O’Rourke

pinkpantheroz

The only good part of my week was sitting in the passenger seat of my car while my 15-year-old granddaughter drove us from school and practices. She’s doing very well.

glenn

Gideon?! Have we met.

MurphTheSurf3

Hi Gideon

pinkpantheroz

PPO–I’ll have to look up the interview; do you know if it has already been aired here in the US? Did she interview them together?

glenn

I spent the last three days on the phone…..pitching this message here in Mo. “Phone script/talking points: I’m calling to urge Senator [insert Senator name] to vote NO on Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation. Trump picked Kavanaugh to be the deciding vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, to promote access to the most dangerous of guns, to support the idea that big money has the right to speak louder than everyday citizens and to decimate the ACA, destroying health care options for millions. Kavanaugh would jeopardize the health of millions of Americans with pre-existing medical conditions and the safety of millions of women, immigrants, and workers. And, with a president under investigation for multiple impeachable offenses, we can’t depend on him to actually serve as a check on President Trump: Kavanaugh believes sitting presidents should be exempt from criminal prosecution and investigation! The Senate should NOT confirm the nominee of a lawless president, especially now that Trump is an unindicted co-conspirator in multiple felonies — and that Kavanaugh has been accused of sexual assault by multiple women, a matter that was investigated by a hobbled FBI that is giving cover to the GOP. Can I count on the Senator to vote against Brett Kavanaugh and for the American people as a whole.” Limited success as you might imagine.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–true dat. Those republican women don’t have much sense.

glenn

Murph–I phoned my two Senators every day with the message to vote no on Kavanaugh because he doesn’t have the character and non-partisan judgement required of a judge. Also that he lied under oath. I also emailed them three times each; from one I got no replies. From the other, I got the same form letter twice.

glenn

I am reading trending reports that seem to point to low turnouts among blacks, hispanics and young people in a number of states.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–I would love to see a Beto run for pres. With Kamala Harris as his vp.

glenn

glenn :

pinkpantheroz

Funk! Long time

pinkpantheroz

The crowd has grown. Hi funk. Long tme.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–that framing works for me, too.

glenn

Finally on. This entire confirmation has been a farce. The FBI did nothing. I had no faith in Collins but there was a tinge of hope. Her lengthy statment was bull shit and just madr me angry. Tbe problem is that the Dems misjudged again. They have rallied republicans as people are viewing Feinstein’s holding onto the letter as a ploy. She did try to sand bag them with the letter at the kadt minute and now Dems mah pay the price in november.

Gideon

Hi all. Great day for the nation

funksands

Murph–and blacks, hispanics and young people are the ones we need to turn out the most. Especially black women. They are fierce.

glenn

hope not, Gideon. US is in turmoil enough already.

pinkpantheroz

Funk, how come??????

pinkpantheroz

Thanks for the link, PPO. I’ll check it out after VOX.

glenn

Pink, we found another bottom in our national barrel! I thought we’d found them all. Very exciting.

funksands

fun k, are u really at the DMZ??

pinkpantheroz

Funk, I think the bottom of the barrell comes out in……Ghina!

pinkpantheroz

The formula is simple. The SCOTUS is the linch pin in the scheme to control the national government. Lifelong judges who cannot be touched and will do the will of the plutocracy that owns the GOP. When the legislature and executive are deadlocked the SCOTUS comes through. When not deadlocked the SCOTUS reinforces…..

MurphTheSurf3

Gideon–first of all, welcome. I didn’t see Feinstein’s holding on to the letter as a sandbag move. She was trying to protect Ford’s identity. And, from what I understand, repubs did know about it; they just chose to do nothing about it.

glenn

Yes, I’m here for the next round of peace talks. I’m in charge of getting the KFC

funksands

Funk–great day for the nation of the cult of trumpistan.

glenn

… with kimchee

pinkpantheroz

looks like gideon has dropped out. hope he/she gets back

pinkpantheroz

If the GOP hold the Senate and Trump (or Pence) hang in until 2020….the chances of getting another justice are significant. The constitution is once again a failed instrument…..

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, but Trump would never sign that in

pinkpantheroz

Murph, I think you’ve hit on something a lot of people don’t get; why would the GOP risk everything and pin everything on getting a loser like this on the Supreme Court? Because even if they lose every elected seat in the nation, they still have the votes to wield the will of the moneyed class

funksands

McConnell couldn’t stop the ACA, but the Court gutted the Medicaid requirement

funksands

Funk…precisely.

MurphTheSurf3

spot on Funk’

pinkpantheroz

Murph–exactly. Which is why Ad’s “suggestion” last week of changing the make-up of the court from 9 to 11 will make sense. Last week when Ad discussed it, I’d never heard of that route. However, today, on the lberal blog in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, another person mentioned it. However, he also mentioned the Judicial Act of 1869, which does call for eight justices with a chief justice, so that would have to be overturned.

glenn

Congress wouldn’t dare eliminate the voting rights act, but the Court could and did. They wouldn’t dare pass a muslim ban, but the court is happy to consider it “legal”

funksands

oops, liberal blog

glenn

Ad….adding justices….yeah….a countermeasure but one that further undermines the already diminished integrity of the Constitution.

MurphTheSurf3

glenn…I could not recall the judicial act of 1869…good on ya…

MurphTheSurf3

Funk–but most of us knew that before even the 2016 election, but chose to ignore it. We knew the SCOTUS was at stake; and the repubs knew it even more. That’s why they had such a turnout.

glenn

Ad….dearly hope that your crystal ball is sharply focused.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, Dems MUST raise a credible opponent to Trump. ‘Anybody But Trump’ won’t cut it.

pinkpantheroz

Adding justices is not the answer because we could be in the same boat years from now. People are really buying into lindsey grahams bull shit.

Gideon

Murph–wasn’t me who remembered it; it was another person on the AJC.

glenn

PPO….a credible candidate…….yes indeed.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, that’s the very trap well-meaning, honest people fall into. The Court has been and will be a political body. The GOP has finally ripped away the final tiny fig leaf away from the truth by ditching everything to get a naked political operative into the seat for nakedly political reasons. The integrity of the Court is now dead and its a good thing. Spraying Febreze on the rotting court of the court for the next 20 years won’t fix it.

funksands

Spraying fabreze…..great metaphor.

MurphTheSurf3

Lysol better, Murph!

pinkpantheroz

Step 1: Every litigant before the court should request Kavanaugh recuse himself from the case. Every single one. Step 2: Continue to build the case for impeachment. They can start collecting the data on Thomas while they are at it.

funksands

PPO–Exactly. And, Biden definitely isn’t a credible opponent to trump. I see Elizabeth Warren is now making noises about running; frankly, I don’t think she is a credible candidate either, much as I love her. I’d rather see someone younger. Kamala Harris–a woman and a black would drive repubs crazy. Beto is another good candidate. There are many more out there.

glenn

Funk…every GOP sycophant I know mouths the line that it was the Dems/Liberals who created an activist progressive court…..and the GOP will set it all aright by strict interpretation of original intent. All BS of course, but they do very much believe it……

MurphTheSurf3

Glenn, I’m not sure why those on the left and middle can’t figure out what the radical right figured out in the 60’s. The control of the judiciary is the key. Lifetime appointments filled by young radicals basically born and bred and groomed to fill those roles

funksands

Funk–great phrase–spraying Febreeze!

glenn

Ad, you are correct. The backlash when FDR tried to expand the size of the Supreme Court was due to his violation of norms, not law. Those norms are deader than dead.

funksands

Cory Booker?

pinkpantheroz

Ad…never said the number was set there but the number was set based on the use of the constitutional mechanisms that were at hand……

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…when was the last time that the number was changed.

MurphTheSurf3

Funk–me neither. And if there was ever a character born and bred and groomed to fill the conservative utopian dream of the courts, it is Brat Kavanaugh.

glenn

brb covfefe break

pinkpantheroz

Article III of the United States Constitution does not specify the number of justices. The Judiciary Act of 1789 called for the appointment of six “judges.” Although an 1801 act would have reduced the size of the court to five members upon its next vacancy, an 1802 act promptly negated the 1801 act, legally restoring the court’s size to six members before any such vacancy occurred. As the nation’s boundaries grew, Congress added justices to correspond with the growing number of judicial circuits: seven in 1807, nine in 1837, and ten in 1863.[74] In 1866, at the behest of Chief Justice Chase, Congress passed an act providing that the next three justices to retire would not be replaced, which would thin the bench to seven justices by attrition. Consequently, one seat was removed in 1866 and a second in 1867. In 1869, however, the Circuit Judges Act returned the number of justices to nine,[75] where it has since remained. President Franklin D. Roosevelt attempted to expand the Court in 1937. His proposal envisioned appointment of one additional justice for each incumbent justice who reached the age of 70 years 6 months and refused retirement, up to a maximum bench of 15 justices. The proposal was ostensibly to ease the burden of the docket on elderly judges, but the actual purpose was widely understood as an effort to “pack” the Court with justices who would support Roosevelt’s New Deal.[76] The plan, usually called the “court-packing plan,” failed in Congress.[77] Nevertheless, the Court’s balance began to shift within months when Justice Willis Van Devanter retired and was replaced by Senator Hugo Black. By the end of 1941, Roosevelt had appointed seven justices and elevated Harlan Fiske Stone to Chief Justice.

MurphTheSurf3

It started with six, then increased to nine shortly after it began if aI remember right

funksands

DC gets 2 Senators, Puerto Rico gets 2 court expands and now we’re talking.

funksands

PPO–I have mixed feelings about Booker. I think he has good instincts, but I also think he lets his ego get in the way too often.

glenn

Gotta switch computers

funksands

Ad…I provided a full chronology as well…so 1869 was the last change….to 9….150 years….

MurphTheSurf3

The Dems need to regroup after this and put out a strong statement by someone who can galvanize the country (Feinstein and her cronies is not the answer).

Gideon

I’m getting more and more depressed, gents, so I’m going to call it a night. Lively discussion; but I’m just bummed. Take care everyone; have a good Columbus Day weekend. Hopefully, I’ll see you all next week.

glenn

Okay, I’m back. Gotta make some dinner soon and talk my wife off the ledge

funksands

Funk, LOL!

pinkpantheroz

Ad…does that fix it….the GOP get back control and increase the number to ?????

MurphTheSurf3

ad…..to do as you suggest requires control of house, senate and presidency…a tall order…

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, not for the Court, but that will allow the Dems to start a lot of other investigations into the Executive Branch

funksands

Murph, Ad mentioned earlier that if the GOP control the SCOTUS, they don’t really need anything else. Hope that is wrong, or we’re all screwed

pinkpantheroz

Murph, I understand where you are coming from, but take th filibuster for example, eliminating the filibuster has enabled T***p to fill a giant number of judicial seats, but I don’t think it was a bad idea to get rid of it. We should do the same with the “gentleman’s filibuster” on legislation as well.

funksands

Ad…ok….it goes as you suggest….and then when the GOP regain control….they increase the number of seats to give them back the SCOTUS…yes?

MurphTheSurf3

Funk, agree. But McConnell, Ryan Sessions and Pence have got to go. They have ruined the country enough already

pinkpantheroz

Pink, no doubt.

funksands

Funk….the 60 vote rule was a great loss…it compelled the choice of someone who could win a real mix of party votes.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, can any of the balancing regs be reintroduced, or is it buggered for all time?

pinkpantheroz

Ad….and so we have a court that grows to how large? This is not a fix….it is an improvisation that increases chaos. I do not have a solution. I regard the constitution itself as the source of our pain.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, I don’t advocate getting rid of the real filibuster. But the days of being able to block a vote simply by raising a withered hand has got to end. yes sometimes we come out on the bad end of the deal, but imagine if Strom Thurmond could have derailed civil rights legislation by declaring a filibuster rather than being forced to speak non-stop until exhausted to rally his cause.

funksands

I wonder what the other Justices think of this whole debacle?

pinkpantheroz

Will they work with Kavanaugh at all, or boycott him?

pinkpantheroz

They’ll work with him. They didn’t make a peep about the stolen seat (RBG’s one pithy comment notwithstanding)

funksands

Funk …… government by improvisation…frightening.

MurphTheSurf3

Ouch! Well, time to head out this beautiful Saturday. See you all next week

pinkpantheroz

Ad….I am not arguing that the size of the court is set….my chronology shows that….but a new judiciary act will be required…and then another…and another…..56 justices?

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, there has been a 30 year effort to get a constitutional convention called. They have 34 states signed on. The effort is in to rewrite the very Constitution to eliminate and change inconvenient and outdated pieces. Millions have been poured into the effort. The radical right is already planning on govt. by improvisation. We can either get ahead of it or be at its mercy

funksands

Murph, why not 7 justices then? Thomas and RBG retire and the seats are simply not filled. What about that?

funksands

Ad……a constantly expanding court….is that how we establish order within government…..I hold that our foundational document is irreparably broken….because it was badly begun.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph, if the foundational document is broken, then what do we do? It will be “fixed” by the wealthy and powerful if we let them. Will we let them because its unseemly to do otherwise?

funksands

What the framers created was a structure for constitutional repair…..amendments and constitutional conventions….neither has worked in the long run.

MurphTheSurf3

Anyway good food for thought. Glad to see that smarter minds than mine are already working on solutions. Take care of yourselves this weekend.

funksands

Take care funk.

MurphTheSurf3

I too am going the way of the exhausted…..when I taught U.S. Political Thought…I was regarding as a bit of a crank for my position on the Constitution as a failed instrument…but I am as convinced now as ever.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…and how much could be undone by a GOP Manufactured Court.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…I agree….and then rule that money is speech and cannot be regulated. A Coup by Court. So the Dems do one of their own and the GOP do it again….

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…none…my point is that your solution is temporary…..it does not address the fundamental question of a the broken instrument.

MurphTheSurf3

You know that what the framers were counting on was an informed and conscientious electorate representing the interests of society…..ah idealism!

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…..true…..Parliamentary systems are more adaptable and generally more effective.

MurphTheSurf3

The framers did not want a Parliament….a complete break with Britain….no king…no ruling class….no lords…..no rabble….AND NONE of it has come to pass.

MurphTheSurf3

Love the Ferrari Image.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…we are on the same page….add in this….the Founders and Framers planned to entrust the nation to the educated, hard working, owners of property, or business, or craft…..also male and generally white…..they were off the mark in so much of what they thought. But worship at the altar of the Framers is required it seems when we speak of this.

MurphTheSurf3

When our system is so broken that someone like Trump cannot be nailed on the emoluments clause then you know that the whole damn thing is impotent.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…I doubt their “wisdom” more and more. Good intentioned, idealistic…yes…..wise….not so much. They so hated British Rule that they could not see the good in it…..and the spots where the flaws could have been addressed.

MurphTheSurf3

In general we are in agreement…..and interesting news about Rice…..time to hit the hay!

MurphTheSurf3

More than dream…work for it….

MurphTheSurf3