• choicelady : Ok everyone – the party is closing down, the evening is drawing nigh. Hope everyone has a very fine weekend, and that you will be able to join Vox next week. Good night!

  • choicelady : Cheerio right back atcha, PPO. Be well.

  • pinkpantheroz : Yes, getting shorter days and gets chilly earlier in the evening, ,so I’ll say cheerio.

  • choicelady : PPO – that’s definitely a good plan. I hope Beatlex will forgive us, but we’re tuckered out and can’t wait up. Have a super weekend. Hope it’s not hot and awful there, but you’re coming up winter soon, so…

  • pinkpantheroz : Well, choice, it looks like it’s just thee and me, and I’m worried about thee! Lets close off a great chat, so I’ll say cheerio till tomorrow.

  • KillgoreTrout : Good eve, mate.

  • choicelady : Look like HER I meant.

  • pinkpantheroz : Ciao, KT.

  • choicelady : KT – LOL!!! Yeah me and Pearl Mesta! I hope I don’t look like here though! Yikes!

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks CL. Good to have you as our hostess with the mostest.

  • choicelady : Good night, KT – definitely get rest. It’s been good having you here!

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, I too must join the exodus. Gotta rise early. Night all!

  • choicelady : PPO – I’d never heard (or read) that before. Very fine sign off!

  • pinkpantheroz : Oo Roo then, Murph! ( Strine for cheerio)

  • choicelady : ‘Night Murph – I will write to you!

  • choicelady : You will always be logged in when you’re on PPOV even if not on VOX. It’s something odd in the system. That’s why we get ‘guests’ – they’re not necessarily lurking here but are just reading something online but not registered.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well, I am out of here.

  • pinkpantheroz : choice, I’ve often logged out from POV and gone back to look at something, only to find I’m still noted as logged in on the blue line in vox pop.

  • choicelady : Oh funk – no way! And yes he will see that. You’re toast, dear friend. Absolutely toast.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…oh!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Panther!

  • choicelady : Murph – he’s ‘in the balcony’ but hasn’t spoken.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Nite KT

  • choicelady : Good night funk – so glad to talk with you. Be well and get good rest.

  • pinkpantheroz : G’night, Murph.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…..oooohhh hhh are you in trouble…

  • KillgoreTrout : Good night funk and Murph. Sleep well, my friends.

  • choicelady : Oh thanks Murph – have a good rest, and I will write back tonight or tomorrow. Thank you! And thank you for being the intermediary, funk!

  • funksands : Choice you are a way better moderator than Ad EVER was!!! (think he’ll see that?) [smiley]

  • choicelady : I have many and various things I do to piss them off. Mostly it’s standing publicly for democratic principles. They do NOT like that! Only once was I in serious danger, but it worked out OK. Mostly they are bullies. I’m indifferent to that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PS Is Beatlex here?

  • pinkpantheroz : Funk, a pleasure as always chatting with you.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well folks time for me to wander off to bed. It has been a treat. Good job, choice. Funk already dropped you my e mail

  • funksands : Folks I gotta roll. I really enjoyed hanging out with you tonight. Pink, Choice, Murph have a great weekend. Choice, let me know when your travel plans firm up. Murph, I’ll keep an eye out for your email.

  • pinkpantheroz : choice, I’ve only met you through this great site. What is it you do to drive the RWNJs so crazy, and how can the rest of us learn?

  • choicelady : PPO – Could NOT have said it better!!!! That’s so funny!!!

  • pinkpantheroz : Gottit! An appropriate name for those who would queue for the opening of an envelope.

  • choicelady : funk – I have been stalked by the RW no fewer than five times. I never stop what I do. They have given up. It’s not worth hiding and abandoning your life for their satisfaction.

  • choicelady : PPO – they promised 10 million today marching on Washington to overthrow the government. They got numbers in the tens. Just the tens.

  • choicelady : Murph – we started getting heavy breathing calls. Next time – I’m blowing a whistle. Did it once to an obscene caller. He never called back.

  • pinkpantheroz : Choice, what are the TENS?

  • funksands : I’m never going to live in fear of them, cockroaches that they are, but I’ll certainly never pretend they don’t exist.

  • choicelady : Murph – MY property is protected with cameras and gates. No gun so far. I agree with you.

  • funksands : Sure does. They’re out there.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- my property is protected with cameras and gates and I am armed…yeah, there is a real reason to worry

  • choicelady : funk – that’s what worries me OK.

  • funksands : Choice, those are the posers. Terrorists don’t march on the capitol.

  • choicelady : All – seriously, despite the fizzle of the TENS who stormed the capital today, is there any ‘there there’ to the extremists or are they just blather? I do worry about another McVeigh.

  • pinkpantheroz : Sleep well, Sabreen.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – have a good rest and good weekend. Sweet dreams!

  • choicelady : funk and Sabreen – oooooh you have a Gadsden flag snuggie? How coooool!

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend Sabreen. Hope to see ya on the music thread tomorrow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Sabreen….you need to get a good night’s sleep so you can clean off the grill of your car.

  • funksands : Sabreen wrap up in your Gadsen flag snuggie and have a great sleep and a good weekend.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….the Flash of Hot Links….

  • choicelady : Sabreen – good night. I can appreciate your fatigue. Can we get you combat pay? The wear and tear on your car alone…

  • funksands : Here is the link to his episode about Mitch McConnell and Alison Grimes. EXTREMELY EXPLICIT WARNING (but very hilarious) YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Oliver’s take on opinion polls and climate change is wonderful. He asks if we should also have polls on “which number is bigger? 15 or 5”

  • Sabreen60 : Well, good folks it’s time. I’m tired from running over all those patriots. So I’ll say good night until we meet again.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- ah…am I watching a repeat then….

  • funksands : It’s on after Game of Thrones

  • choicelady : Murph – good suggestion. I’ll check it out.

  • choicelady : funk – always good to remember NOT to eat while watching outrageously funny stuff.

  • Sabreen60 : Nah Funk. I don’t think Bill has the guts to get physical with Hillary. And really I doubt that he’s that big of an A-hole.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- I bet you can pick up some skits on You Tube or the show site.

  • funksands : Murph, you MUST post a parental warning about that show before encouraging others to watch it. I about choked on my ice cream the other night….

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I think it’s on Sunday night.

  • choicelady : Murph – I don’t have HBO… [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL HBO on Friday night.

  • choicelady : KT – I read that, too and thought it interesting.

  • Sabreen60 : CL [smiley] [smiley] [smiley]

  • choicelady : Murph – no I’ve NOT seen that. When is he on? He is amazing.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, I caught part of one show. I keep forgetting to watch on Sunday night.

  • funksands : Sabreen, are you calling Bill Clinton Ike Turner?

  • choicelady : Sabreen – hmmm. Seems to me I’ve heard that before. Now the tune will stay in my head. Thanks a LOT!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I read “Out On a Limb,” many years ago. I found it very interesting.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sidetrack- Has anyone seen Last Week Tonight with John Oliver….really pushing the edge…..

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I don’t doubt that they love each other. But somebody said “What’s love got to do with it”. Just kidding.

  • choicelady : funk – LOL!!

  • funksands : Choice, its just like Donald Rumsfeld said: “You go to battle with the spouse you have, not the one you wish you had” [smiley]

  • choicelady : KT – it did seem a stretch, but with Shirley? You never know…

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL CL. No, I was just joking. She probably would do it, just out of her great sense of humor about herself.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – their ease with each other makes it more than just political alliance. It’s commitment through it all. You could see the distance between Laura and W – they never talked, barely looked at each other. The Clintons enjoy each other’s company a LOT.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, absolutely. I never believed in “the wife is the last to know”. Maybe she doesn’t know about a one-night stand. But a lengthy relationship? Not if she knows her man. She may not WANT to know. Or in Hillary’s case, maybe having the powerful man was more important than all the affairs.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, that’s the best way to read such books.

  • choicelady : KT – Seriously? Well – she’d give the cats a run for their money. She’s got teeth, she does!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, did you hear that Shirley is going to do 9 Lives catfood commercials? [smiley]

  • choicelady : Murph – I agree. Whatever his tomcat ways, they have something very powerful, and it’s not just political. I really believe they love each other.

  • choicelady : KT -that IS the difference between the GOP and the rest of us. She nailed it!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab and CL…I think that Hillary knew her man and decided that warts and all he was HER man…her backing of him gave him the moral wedge to survive the mess

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I’ve always loved Shirley!

  • Sabreen60 : Funk! Me? Marks? Yeah well. I can think of a couple of things I might have done [smiley]

  • choicelady : Sabreen – LOL!! I can just see the stiletto marks!

  • funksands : KT, just finished it. Took me a long time because I read it very slowly, re-reading many part over again. Fascinating book!

  • KillgoreTrout : Looks very interesting funk! Thanks. It’s right up my alley!

  • funksands : Sabreen, I bet you would have left a few marks too…

  • choicelady : Murph – I respected their commitment, and it’s none of my business anyway. I’m with Shirley McLaine who said, upon hearing the JFK revelations that conveniently came out during Watergate, “I’d rather have a president who’s doing it to a woman than one who’s doing it to the country.”

  • Sabreen60 : CL, Besides – I also believed that it was between the two of them. Of course, I would’ve walked, but that’s just me [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CHoice- pretty much what I said….and likely provided Bill with the ONE ESSENTIAL ALLY HE HAD TO HAVE.

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL CL. Quite true, but they support the loud mouthed MJ critics. Go figure.

  • funksands : KT, this is a book recommend for you: «link»

  • choicelady : Murph – LOL!! But she kept that marriage together, and what the HELL is wrong with THAT?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : All- I was at a meeting this week when the Hillary story made the rounds. “Best” comment. “Hell! I thought she was brain damaged when she let that SOB get away with hankypanky Monica.”

  • KillgoreTrout : Aren’t they just unbelievably crazy, CL?

  • choicelady : KT – I will believe rednecks (many of whom are very nice people) don’t like pot when I believe Sarah Palin has a brain.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh yeah PPO. The NASCAR crowd. They’re fighting now to get cigarette company logos back on their cars. But that ther mary jane is the devil’s friend.

  • choicelady : funk – I recommend Gar Alperovitz’s book, “America Beyond Capitalism” that talks about the link between worker control of business and the revival of democracy. It’s GREAT. «link»

  • funksands : Thanks Choice I’ll check it out.

  • choicelady : KT – I thought Bill was hilarious when that issue came up at the Pete Peterson conference this week. She faked it but is damaged by it. Uh huh…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice – thanks for the webite.

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL funk!

  • pinkpantheroz : great point, KT! So lets see…… A fake fall brings on real brain damage. Yep, that’ll have legs with the NASCAR set.

  • funksands : A lot of book is meant for people that maybe don’t thing about these things much (which you all do) but it still really helped me re-think how I should view our government and its public purpose

  • choicelady : All – in case you’re interested in union coops, you can go to our new web site: 1worker1vote.org Lots of good stuff there.

  • funksands : I’ll take involuntary brain damage over the party of purposeful brain damage any day KT

  • choicelady : Thanks funk – I have a kindle and will get it after we’re done. MUCH appreciated!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk-on your recc. I have just made Garden part of my Amazon wish list.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, remember when Hillary had her accident how the RWers were saying she was faking the injury to get out of the Benghazi hearings? Now they are saying she has brain damage from the very injury they said she was faking

  • funksands : Pink, it will double if not triple in madness in a year or so. It will be spectacular. I’m already gagging thinking about it.

  • choicelady : Murph – I understand that. It’s an essential saving grace.

  • funksands : Here it is. One of my favs. «link»

  • choicelady : funk – No, not yet. It’s on my ‘guilt pile’ of unread things.

  • pinkpantheroz : Funk, I don’t think we need to wait until 2016. They’re freaking out enough already.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- laundry fine….when you have a farm, you wash your work clothes every day.

  • choicelady : Murph – and just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse in MO…

  • funksands : Choice did you ever read Nick’s book, “The Gardens of Democracy?” Great read.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- my life in Mo. will be pure hell….Hillary and Barack in the same sentence

  • choicelady : funk – OMG – I’d not thought of that! Hoo eeeee!

  • funksands : Make sure and don your face-shield, apron and gloves for 2016. You think the right wing is unhinged now? What until Hillary is running for President and Obama is still President! It will be the Year of the Mother of all Lunatics on the Right!!

  • choicelady : Murph – your laundry OK?

  • Sabreen60 : Good night glenn.

  • choicelady : funk – Nick Hanauer, from WA, is a billionaire who totally agrees with you. He is driving a group of his peers to call for major wage and salary improvements!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO “Spanner” very Brit of you.

  • KillgoreTrout : Excellent point funk.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Nite Glenn

  • choicelady : PPO and funk – I doubt she wants to, but I’d love to see the reaction indeed if Michelle were picked!

  • pinkpantheroz : I meant GOP heads, funk, but yes, that would throw a spanner into the works. Assuming, of course, that HRC will nominate in the first place!

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend glenn!

  • funksands : Nite Glenn! Great “seeing” you!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I am back, miss me?

  • KillgoreTrout : I agree CL. PBO did lay it out pretty clearly.

  • funksands : KT, for sure. Not only is it not fair, it doesn’t even make economic sense. In a country where 67% of GDP is made of up of consumption, why wouldn’t you want more money in the hands of the people that are going to spend it ALL?

  • choicelady : Oh glenn – sorry to see you go, but the ‘siren song of sheets’ is one I know! Sweet dreams and slightly warmer weather for you!

  • choicelady : funk – totally agree on the SS issue.

  • pinkpantheroz : Night, glenn. Take care.

  • funksands : Pink that would be awesome. Can you imagine the heads exploding in the Clinton camp if Michelle announced for 2016? Hee Hee!

  • choicelady : KT – that was why PBO challenged the GOP to put up or shut up. And nothing can be done about wage gaps. We can lift the very bottom but that’s all which is why I’m working my butt off to try to open up the possibilities for worker ownership of businesses. That is the ONLY way to guarantee sustainable self sufficient jobs and authority over them.

  • glenn : All-I am just getting to the point where I can’t keep my eyes open any more, so I’m just going to have to call it a night. G’night all. As usual, I’ve learned, laughed, and liked from our chat tonight. Take care, and I’ll see you all around!

  • funksands : Choice, another topic for another time. The SS argument is purely political, the government doesn’t actually need to dip into a pool of money to pay SS checks out, nor does it need to collect money before it does. Definitely not something to get into here though.

  • pinkpantheroz : I’d love to be a fly on the wall if the Dems chose Michelle Obama as their candidate! Heads exploding everywhere! Come to think of it, why not?????

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, it just galls me that people who have actually worked for a living all their adult lives would get less while the rich guys continue to get tax breaks. It’s just not right.

  • choicelady : funk – I’m sure looking at Beau…

  • funksands : Glenn, he’s Joe’s son, army vet, attorney general real straight shooter seeming without his father’s loose jaw. Probably too early for him, but I like him.

  • choicelady : funk – by 2034 we can cover only about 80% of SS. It’s never bad to be solvent. Of course we could figure how to replace the money Reagan stole…

  • funksands : Choice, Chained CPI is not too big of deal. But nothing needs to be done to keep SS solvent. We just need to keep the political will to write the checks.

  • choicelady : funk – I will move to Canada before I vote for Booker that little turncoat. Deval Patrick I know little about.

  • Sabreen60 : BRB

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, As I said, I would love to see him run. I think the MSM and other Dems may believe they don’t stand a chance against Hillary or they don’t want to step out there before her.

  • glenn : Funk–Now, Beau Biden sounds good. What can you tell us about him?

  • choicelady : Murph – we will be here. Laundry does come first.

  • choicelady : funk – I know nothing about Beau, but if he’s as good as his father, cool. I look at Andrew Cuomo and think, “I want your father back!” Nasty piece of work is little Andrew.

  • funksands : Anyone think Deval Patrick or Corey Booker will run? I think Deval will. I don’t think Corey is that full of himself yet.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : BRB…laundry calling.

  • glenn : Sabreen–I know that no Dem probably wants to challenge Hillary in the primaries, but no one thought Obama had a chance, either, and look what happened. And, even if O’Malley doesn’t get the nomination this time, wouldn’t it be good name recognition for him?

  • choicelady : glenn – I worked with Brown’s office to pass ACA and was very impressed, he does all the right things, has vision, and principles. What he doesn’t have is charisma – but I’m sick of that being the essential thing. We need a solid policy wonk, period.

  • funksands : How about Beau Biden? Huh? That’d be a wild card!

  • Sabreen60 : KT, I like Biden. But I think he may have been damaged by some of his gaffes.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SANDERS voting record at «link» It’s better than one would think. He has a number of bills and has had reasonable success with a number of veterans bills.

  • choicelady : KT – the CCPI has to be considered if we don’t have a majority to pass a raise in the cap. It’s a way of protecting SS if we can’t get that majority. But PBO made very clear he would ‘give’ that IF AND ONLY IF the GOP would raise taxes on the rich. It was a bargaining chip to prove they would never do what is right. And now he’s given it up – and Sanders takes the credit. He never got the strategy or talked about the heartless and soulless GOP at all. That is my biggest grip with the Progs – they focus on this president and NEVER on the real evils of the GOP.

  • funksands : Save us from Cuomo and Mark Warner *gag*

  • KillgoreTrout : OK folks, what about Biden? He’s got tons of experience.

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, I know the question has been asked of O’Malley. I kinda got the impression, he’s waiting to see what Hillary is going to do. I have never heard anyone ask Chris Van Hollen.

  • glenn : CL–Why Sherrod Brown?

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks CL, good point. I have to admit though, I was no fan of even slightly less COLIs.

  • choicelady : I WANT SHERROD BROWN!!!

  • glenn : Sabreen–do O’Malley and Van Hollen even want to throw their hats into the ring?

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I like them too.

  • funksands : O’Malley is a good dude. Doesn’t light anyone’s petticoats on fire, but he’s solid

  • choicelady : Sabreen and Murph – I believe Sanders has NO track record on legislation, no.

  • Sabreen60 : Although Martin O’Malley doesn’t have the name recognition, I’d like to see him throw his hat in the ring. I also like Chris Van Hollen. I know they’re both from MD and maybe I’m bias, but I really like both.

  • choicelady : Murph – I agree about that with Sanders. I want to love him. I usually wind up gritting my teeth in frustration with his hype.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab- it’s easy to find Sander’s legislative history…I suspect that he would be a hard one to work with…uncomprom ising…which is how you get a bill through.

  • choicelady : KT – he was dead wrong on his data on CCPI. It wasn’t a cut at all, and the amount of money he insisted people would lose (you can’t lose an INCREASE that you are not guaranteed to get anyway) was ridiculous! He was saying that if you got $3 per month less in your INCREASE over your lifetime it would be hundreds of thousands less. That makes no sense at ALL. His data were totally without foundation.

  • glenn : Funk–From what I’ve read and seen of Sanders, he seems to be a pretty good guy. I don’t know that much about him, but I do know that I hope he doesn’t run as an independent. As you say, that will not bode well for the Dems.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Sanders is one of those “but what has he done for me lately dems” who does not acknowledge how much bHO has done.

  • Sabreen60 : I read somewhere that Sanders doesn’t have one bill with his name on it. True?

  • funksands : Choice are any them going to run for President other than Hillary? I wish they would! This needs to be part of the process, rather than a bland coronation that’s over by June.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- saw Rev. Barber tonight….I think there are going to be lots of jailings…it’s the civil rights movement all over again.

  • choicelady : Murph – Sanders never once has thanked the president or told anyone publicly. In CA I was the ONLY one – ONLY ONE – who knew it. I had to dig up the story and send it to single payer supporters because Sanders did NOT.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, wrong on what issues, if you don’t mind me asking?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Pink…LOL…a few shrimps short of a barbie…so funny.

  • choicelady : KT – Sanders is passionate but too often WRONG. Curmudgeonship is just not enough.

  • funksands : Glenn I like Bernie Sanders a lot. I think he’s a good man and a great representative for his state. He’s a credit to his profession. If he runs as an independent he really damage the Dems chase of keeping the White House. I don’t think he will.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- no I think Sanders is general sane…but it is his tone that I cite as being McCain like

  • choicelady : funk – I do think, if you pay attention especially to women, that the fury is already out there in Dem primaries.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- oh, I think Bernie has his heart in the right place but he tends to bluster a lot…and your point about single payer is very well taken…does he speak honestly about that?

  • KillgoreTrout : I think Bernie pretty much calls them as he sees them. He IS passionate about some issues.

  • choicelady : Murph – they can’t stop Moral Mondays. It’s inviting major court battles. Anyway I totally trust the people of NC to carry on even within the limits. You cannot keep down free speech and free assembly.

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, not widely reported in aussie media, but I’m sure they’re like me thinking McCain’s a few shrimps short of a barbie!

  • funksands : Choice, I think you’d agree that the Dem primary could use a healthy dose of fury and self-righteousne ss in the debates? Don’t you think?

  • glenn : Murph–Never thought of Sanders that way, but I could see where there are some similarities. You don’t think that Sanders is going to unleash another Palindora box of lunacy on us, though, do you?

  • choicelady : Murph – I think Sanders is a cut above, but I would NOT disagree overall. Fury and self righteousness are NOT policy, and I – we the nation – need policy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- and their nastiness is well funded. I just saw that the NC legislature is trying to craft rules that will make it impossible for the Moral Mondays demonstrations to go on….

  • funksands : Sanders is an ideologue. McCain is simply “Mavericky”

  • KillgoreTrout : I know the pubs are scared shitless of Hillary.

  • choicelady : glenn – I think the stuff they hurl at Dems can’t stick, and they’ve been reduced to absolutely insane statements such as McCain’s.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CHOICE- AND FUNK Sanders reminds me of McCain, but from the Left of course.

  • glenn : Murph–After losing two elections in a row, the repubs are going to throw everything they can against a Dem candidate, so I’m not sure anyone has the stamina any more. The repubs seem to be getting more and more nasty, and I didn’t think that was possible.

  • choicelady : funk – Sanders has no facts for his assertion on the Dems at all. Much of what he gets mad about is baseless. He forgets that PBO handed him single payer as the state option – he never even made it public but buried it on his communications web page. And VT can’t get it together – turns out it is VERY hard to do, even in that small state.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- What do people down under think of statements like the one McCain made.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk – Sanders I agree with you- I don’t think he has the stamina anyway.

  • funksands : Choice: [smiley]

  • funksands : Sanders thinks the Dems are sell-outs, but he also thinks the GOP are insane. Ultimately I don’t think he’ll run as an indy

  • choicelady : glenn – THAT is an excellent point!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice-+- SOOOOOO Funny!

  • glenn : Funk–It just amazes me that people who claim to be conservatives keep saying they’ve changed when the very definition of conservativism is no change.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen, good to see ya, as always!

  • choicelady : funk – yeah, I fell for that in my 20s with guys. Ain’t NO way I’m falling for it with the GOP.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey PPO! How are things?

  • funksands : Republican campaign mottos through history: “Baby I’ve changed!”

  • Sabreen60 : Hiya KT!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – that’s the truth!

  • Sabreen60 : The Repub’s playbook has not changed. They know many are ill-informed and/or apathetic. I read this article back in 2010, I believe. It’s still true. Repubs make the screw up the government and blame Dems for not being able to govern. «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn, Murph and funk! I hope all is well.

  • choicelady : funk – PBO is very strategic, and it’s the MSM and the Left that have failed to see that. Policy analysis eludes them.

  • funksands : Glenn, yeah, Sanders running as an Indy would tell me that he just doesn’t get it. I think he’s really torn about it.

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi, KT, welcome

  • funksands : One thing that Obama has done well is he has resisted the urge to move beyond bipartisan lip-service to strike deals with these bastards. He’s dug a trench and he’s holding the line.

  • choicelady : KT – glad to be here!

  • KillgoreTrout : So far, so good CL. Thanks for asking. Nice to have you as our gracious host this evening.

  • pinkpantheroz : Here’s the quote from the Daily Beast: ” McCain: Send U.S. Special Forces to Rescue Nigerian Girls The hawkish Senator tells The Daily Beast that American forces should #BringBackOurGir ls—even if the Nigerian government says no. The United States should send in special forces to rescue the hundreds of girls kidnapped by Boko Haram—whether the Nigerian government gives permission or not, according to Sen. John McCain. “If they knew where they were, I certainly would send in U.S. troops to rescue them, in a New York minute I would, without permission of the host country,” McCain told The Daily Beast on Tuesday. “I wouldn’t be waiting for some kind of permission from some guy named Goodluck Jonathan,” he added, referring to the president of Nigeria.

  • glenn : Funk–Sanders running as an independent would be a disaster. I would vote for him in a newyork minute if he ran as a Dem.

  • funksands : Hey KT!

  • glenn : Hey KT–how are you? And your mom?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi KT

  • choicelady : Hi KT! How are you and how is your Mom?

  • funksands : Glenn, that’s 1 thing you THINK the Clinton’s would be counted on to do, but Bill left office having “triangulated” his way into absolutely disastrous policy for the nation.

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s up folks?

  • glenn : Funk–I also agree with you about a Hillary candidacy. I’m not real comfortable with her as the Dem candidate.

  • choicelady : glenn – I hope you’re right about retaliation, but I think she will cave because she is too close to the Right.

  • funksands : …Sanders and/or Warren run as Democrats in the primary to stimulate better debate and policy platform creation. Sanders running as an independent would really suck and he would need to be knee-capped to avoid that.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I won’t work for her if she thinks this administration is ‘a mess’. He’s done amazingly wonderful things, and the only ‘mess’ is rotten PR. I get press announcements daily on issues, and they never show up in MSM at all – it’s NOT that they don’t say what is going on. It’s that MSM do not report it. The idiocy of the Left such as Schultz is beyond my comprehension – they’re all citing one another with NO FACTS. Example – three times this month our US Attorney has convicted fraudulent mortgage lenders for subprime issues – NOT ever in the paper, only in my “inbox” from the press releases.

  • glenn : Funk–If Hillary does get elected in 2016, I believe between her and Bill, I have to agree, they will be ruthless in attacking the “vast right-wing conspiracy.”

  • funksands : I am decidedly un-enthused about a Hillary candidacy. I wish I was, but I’m not. I’m really hopeful that

  • funksands : Yeah Sabreen, that’s just what we need is to have Hillary come in and clean up the mess that Obama left after he cleaned up Bill’s big steaming pile of bipartisanship.

  • funksands : Glenn, very true. I know some very very bright professionals that know absolutely nothing about what’s going on in their own government. Nor do they care.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, It’s been rumored that HRC wants to “clean up the mess” from the Obama administration. How does she think the Obama coalition will treat her if this is the position she wants to take.

  • funksands : Murph, we can’t have them too educated though. People in power get nervous with an educated and politically involved populace.

  • glenn : Funk–there was also an article about that poll. It seems to explain why people still vote for republicans. They think because President Obama is a Democrat, that somehow or another, it is Democrats screwing up Congress. The average American has no idea what is going on. And…I have to admit, if I weren’t retired, I’m not so sure I would know as much as I do.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk- more proof that the framers concern about the ignorant masses was well founded.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – Hillary’s PUMA group and other supporters also are sitting out this election. Despicable.

  • funksands : Nothing is going to happen for the next 2 years. Absolutely nothing. 2016 will bring a big blue wave. They better be effing ready for some ruthlessness this time around.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, I agree. All this talk about Hillary completely discounts the importance of 2014, IMO. Also, there have been tweets attributed to Hillary’s saying she’s not getting involved in 2014. If true, that’s not good for her or the Dems.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CHoice-+- and Welch was a witness when he took McCarthy on! Amazing. Of course, the chair let it happen because Ike had ordered McCarthy be taken down and out.

  • funksands : Everyone: A recent poll showed that half of Americans polled don’t even know which party is in control of Congress. The GOP knows this they know that the disaster they cause will probably be laid 50% at their doorstep.

  • choicelady : PPO – No! I did not see that diatribe by washed up McCain! How stupid of him!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- I completely agree….they squandered the first two years. They should have shut the GOP down and passed ACA in the first 6 months. Once it became clear how obstructionist the GOP planned to be it was time to run over them with a mac truck.

  • pinkpantheroz : Oh, everybody, did anyone else see John McCain’s rant against the POTUS about the kidnappings in Nigeria, saying he wouldn’t wait for anything from someone called Johnathan Goodluck before acting. Brilliant, espouse invasion of a friendly country and insult its President. Gettin better with age, John! attaboy!

  • choicelady : Murph – we need a person like Joseph Welch who so powerfully, calmly, and passionately challenged McCarthy. THAT was what brought McCarthy DOWN. I saw it as a very little girl but never forgot it at all.

  • glenn : Ooh funk–love your idea about a woman on the committee. However, I do like Cummings much better than Grayson.

  • funksands : Murph, the Dems better learn some year how to use political power when they have it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : choice- I know. Those damn Democratic principles about fair play and governing responsibly.

  • glenn : Murph–Yes, Dems did vote for the Iraq war, but I don’t think repukes should be able to beat them over the head with supporting the president when your country has been attacked.

  • choicelady : funk – agitated. Hmmm. That raises all kinds of issues as the fact Cummings is Black. Issa’s biases are right out there, aren’t they?

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, You’re very welcome. [smiley]

  • funksands : Personally I think a woman on the committee would get Issa more agitated

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- I read Rove’s ploy as an effort to scare her off of the campaign…AND.. .as a seed planted to bear later fruit. He is a despicable man.

  • choicelady : Murph – Cummings maybe. I’m not sure who would be good.

  • choicelady : Murph – they didn’t challenge Bush on the Embassy hits because they are civilized. Not everyone who is in the House today voted on Iraq – that gives them some room to critique that. But Alan would just holler – and they’d use it to their advantage on ‘defensiveness ‘. If he were more adult, i’d love him to be there. He’s just NOT.

  • funksands : Sabreen, thank you for your earlier comment. It was very sweet of you to say.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- Sanchez would be good. Cummings should be there too because he has dealt with Issa.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn..my thoughts exactly. Why don’t they do that…in part because they did vote for Iraq and they did not challenge the Bush admin about his embassy hits.

  • choicelady : glenn – even just reciting the embassy attacks under Bush would raise the issues. The problem is that they are determined that, in the heat of the moment, some statement from the WH might not have been absolutely correct. THAT is what they’re pursuing. They could NOT care less about the four who died.

  • funksands : Sabreen, Alan is awesome. I have my reservations about that though. I think Alan wants to be on the committee for Alan’s benefit.

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, I think that the only brain damaged person is Karl Rove. The cretin is doing whatever he can and maybe has succeede, in bringing a furphy (Australian slang for a rumour, or an erroneous or improbable story)into play for all the RWNJs to gnaw on for the campaign. Typical, dontcha think?

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I agree about Grayson. We need someone really strong, but also strategic.

  • funksands : Murph, I’d put someone on the House Ethics committee in the room. Send a message about why that person is there. Maybe Linda Sanchez?

  • glenn : Murph–My thoughts on the Benghazi select committee are “bull hockey”. I keep waiting for Dems to bring up the 18 embassy attacks under gwb. And, every time some repuke talks about how they are just so compassionate for those 4 dead Americans, a Dem should talk about how much compassion s/he has for the 3,000 dead Americans from the 9/11/01 attack, which happened because an administration was incompetent, and the compassion they have for the 4,000 Americans that died in a war based on lies by an incompetent administration. Those are my thoughts.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Alan has taken a neck tack in his second term…losing the first one was a good lesson…he is still smart as a whip and sharp of tongue…still he is not the person for the Select Committee.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I actually doubt that. He’s given to explosions but not as much to strategy. He could do a lot of harm.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, I heard Rep. Alan Grayson say he’s more than willing to be that “one” person. He said he would be the Repub’s worst, worst nightmare.

  • choicelady : funk – I used to love him, sent him money, but he has become an unprincipled and often WRONG loudmouth.

  • funksands : Choice, I love Alan Grayson, but I’m not sure he’s the right guy for a delicate job like that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- which Dem would you put on the committee.

  • choicelady : funk – I’d agree though I’m not sure Grayson is the one. His mouth gets there too often before his brain.

  • funksands : I think the Dems best move is to put 1 person on the committee to act as a fly in ointment

  • Sabreen60 : Funk – Yeah I like that rim shot. BTW, I’m still reading earlier comments. You son sounds awesome. And I’m glad he’s getting the medical care he needs. You sound like a pretty awesome father, too.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GLENN- good point about the participation rate.

  • choicelady : glenn – just heard about India. Unnerving.

  • choicelady : Murph – thanks. I would be interested in thoughts on the select committee. I heard all Dems other than Alan “Ego Is My Middle Name” Grayson will boycott.

  • glenn : Murph–Afraid you may be right about the right wing conspracy being global. I’m sure you’ve heard about the Indian elections, which have taken a right turn, according to all of the pundits.

  • funksands : You want to know why the labor participation rate is starting to drop rapidly? Simply. Now people can retire before 65 and not live in fear of going broke if they get sick!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : OK- LET ME ASK…ANY THOUGHTS ON THE BENGHAZI SELECT COMMITTEE…OR ON THE ROVE ATTACK ON HILLARY THIS WEEK?

  • choicelady : glenn – yes indeedy. Nasty by being compassionate and caring about our fellow people. Oh woe!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – so how many were actually there? We heard it was in the TENS…

  • glenn : Funk–Exactly. And the rwnj in Idaho will complain about how it’s all a “liberal plot”. Which is exactly what it is. A liberal plot to give people actual freedom! Oh liberals are such nasty people!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- the right wing conspiracy is global

  • choicelady : funk – oh don’t cry for Idaho. They’ll make out with the toothless 3rd-grade dropouts who douse their wounds with moonshine. I AM serious about that however nasty it may be. They ‘revere’ their independence…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- great example of state competition based on fairness.

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, how did you guess???? The GOP buggers are now making us make co-payments to doctors visits, cutting back on services and lots of other nasties to ‘cure a Budget disaster” whick is invisible to all economic pundits here.

  • funksands : Glenn, Think about it. If I live in Idaho and make $7.25 an hour and get no medical insurance I can cross the border and live in Washington and make $10 an hour with medical insurance doing the exact same job. Eventually Idaho won’t be able to compete.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, I need something stronger. You don’t just take an aspirin and forget those sights. I’ll have nightmares for weeks. gah!

  • glenn : Funk–I’m so glad that you are able to be self-employed. You know, after reading your post about moving to Canada or Australia, I realized that people here in the U.S. may not have to move to one of those countries; perhaps they can just move to a state who actually has Medicaid expansion. It will be interesting to see how those dynamics work out–with the red states vs. blue.

  • choicelady : funk – I ADORE your rimshot!

  • funksands : Pink, no worries. We have friends in Sydney that rub it in all the time. [smiley]

  • funksands : oops wordpress foul

  • choicelady : funk! That is GREAT news about your independence!!! You’re both the embodiment of the freedom from wage slavery PBO wanted – and have just handed the RWNJs another “JOB LOST” talking point. So be sure to be clear you’re liberated thanks to ACA!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- is your conservative government pushing back on the cost of your health care.

  • funksands : Sabreen, looks like you <strong> tread </stong> on them! «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen-+– have you taken that aspirin yet…and is that Gadsden flag lodged at any point in your cranium?

  • pinkpantheroz : funk, don’t want to rub it in from OZ, but when my Love got squamus cell cancer, the only expenses we had to treat it ( successfully, TG) were the parking fees and the gas to get to the hospital for her treatments (5 weeks DAILY). Zip compared to the US.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – only a couple? Well hell girlfriend, no jury of your true peers can convict you on THAT.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…Mo. has a reasonable Dem. governor and an out of control legislature..alm ost all radical GOP.

  • funksands : Glenn, I had insurance through my employer, but I’ve always wanted to be self-employed in my field. With the ACA I was able to do that in November. I sign up in June!

  • glenn : Sabreen–glad you made it home all in one piece! At least I hope you’re all in one piece!

  • choicelady : Oh Murph – thank you. This is the issue of the past 30 years of my life. How do you secure sustainable and enduring jobs? You have to have worker ownership – there is NO other way. It’s why I’m not a ‘socialist’ – the gov’t can be no more reliable than businesses. Corporatism in either form is dangerous to the well being of working people.

  • funksands : Murph, I’m afraid Missouri is shedding its skin right now. It’s got to be an odd place right now, much different than when my folks lived there.

  • glenn : Funk–So, now you don’t have to move?

  • glenn : Hi Sabreen!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….I was at another meeting to work on getting medicaid expansion in my state….SO frustrating. Pence in Indiana just did it but not here in Mo. Misery is right.

  • choicelady : funk – that is HORRIBLE! Besides medical care, you must indeed have expenses that are out of sight. I am so sorry!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : choice- the point about my admiration for all you do and all you are.

  • funksands : Glenn, its totally ridiculous. I make pretty damn good money. More than enough to live very comfortably, but I have to move to Australia or Canada to make sure that we don’t go bankrupt caring for our son? Madness. Utter madness

  • choicelady : funk!!! That’s NOT our Sabreen mowing down RWNJs, hats and all!!!

  • Sabreen60 : Oh come on Funk. I only ran over a couple of them – well maybe more than a couple [smiley]

  • choicelady : Murph – I think I was out when you made your point. Can you repeat it so I don’t have to scroll down?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- go take an aspirin, get a nice cool drink, lie down, it is clear you were clubbed by a Tea Party Gadsden flag.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – so. Millions were there? Wow. TV lies then. Must be doctored photos, right?

  • glenn : Funk–hopefully you get to tell your story about how Obamacare helps you as much as possible. The love of your son shines through when you write about him.

  • funksands : Sabreen, I could tell! Lot of tri-corner hats embedded in your car’s grill!

  • choicelady : Murph – I know you also worked for the funksands of the world in MO. So many wonderful people with no other alternatives. It’s why we need this amazing program.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- coops….and therein you prove my earlier point.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Planeteers! I just got back from the Mall where 30 million patriots gathered today. If you think million people covered the entire Mall in 2008 for PBO, you should have seen what 30 million people looked like. It took me 8 hours to get home – should have taken about 45 mins.

  • funksands : Thanks nice lady. I really do think very highly of people like you and Murph on the front lines helping keep our family safe. I know that sounds corny, but its very true.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk- ACA is for your kid and his many brothers and sisters across the land.

  • choicelady : funk – if I worked for anyone to get ACA passed, it was your family.

  • choicelady : glenn – I am working like mad on coops. Going to several conferences in the next two weeks, and having a union/faith in-gathering in Oakland mid June. It’s kind of like pushing molasses uphill here in CA where coops are seen as privileged countercultural stuff, but working with faith people and unions is a GREAT thing! They are the folks who think of the world as “WE” not just “ME”. Love it!

  • funksands : Choice, he’s made me a better human. But yes, he has his health problems. It’s the main reason I’ve been such a proponent of ObamaCare. Kid like this will never get health insurance under the old system

  • glenn : Choice–so, what’s new in your world? Surely you have something new to tell us about the co-ops?

  • choicelady : funk – I did not know your older son had a heart problem. How scary that must be for YOU! He sounds marvelous, and you always speak of him with love!

  • funksands : He’s over in the corner working with his 3D doodler right now glaring at me. [smiley]

  • funksands : Choice, that would be so cool. I really hope you can pull it off this year.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- what a wonderful way you have of putting that…the love shines through.

  • funksands : Ok Murph, I’ll keep my eyes peeled.

  • choicelady : funk – I really hope to meet you and your son this summer.

  • glenn : Funk–Wow–he sounds awesome!

  • choicelady : That is perfect – I will Tweet you in private message for sure. Do you follow me because we have to follow each other to make that work.

  • funksands : My 9 year old is more “typical” but an amazing kid as well.

  • funksands : Well Glenn, my boy is a bit different. He’s autistic, has perfect pitch, an incredible artist, a wicked sense of humor, has a serious heart ailment and is also a verrrrrry typical teenager on top of all that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk I will send you an e mail.

  • choicelady : Hey funk – glad to see you. Had to run to the door when you checked in. Not BECAUSE you checked in though!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- I taught high school for a while and that age boy is often such fun- still a kid and becoming a man- all at once.

  • funksands : ****magic****

  • funksands : Murph, he is the most interesting human I have ever met. Hands down.

  • glenn : Funk–Oh noooooo–a teenage son! So, I guess you just don’t know anything, right? Love Mark Twain’s take on teenagers–“It ‘s amazing how much my father learned from the time I was 15 until the time I was 21.” LOL

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….how did you do that!

  • pinkpantheroz : BRB

  • funksands : Murph: «email»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…your son turning 15…what kind of “kid” is he…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…howdy ho….hey I need to chat with you off line re. HP. I don’t think I have your e mail. But you can tweet me and I can send you a private message with it.

  • funksands : Hi Choice

  • funksands : Hi Murph,

  • funksands : Not much Glenn, working too much. Have a son turning 15 on Monday AAAAAAGGGHHH

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO and that recommitment is what is push what passes as a moderate to the far right.

  • glenn : Hi Funk–what’s up with you?

  • funksands : Hey Pink! How’s cooler weather treating you?

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi funk!

  • funksands : I (I am proud to admit) was a resident of Idaho for 20 years.

  • pinkpantheroz : According to the Wash Post, ‘Alarmed by a resurgence of more establishment Republicans, activists are pressuring them to “recommit’ on their opposition to abortion, gay marriage and illegal immigration.” So it seems they’re trotting out the old ‘Charter’ to blackmail candidates into signing.

  • funksands : BOOM! What up homies??

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn and CL …. followup to the Idaho debates. Did you see that it was the incumbent governor who insisted the two odd ducks be given access to the debate because he was being challenged by a serious candidate…the GOP does eat its own.

  • glenn : CL–Okay, it was Idaho. I just got the state wrong–I knew it began with an “I”.

  • choicelady : Ooops – BRB

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn and Choice…America ns may be fed up with loonies but their principles have been co-opted by the so called Establishment GOP….just as radical but with table manners.

  • choicelady : glenn – No. I saw the (I think) Idaho one that had me laughing out loud at the insanity! What happened in IN?

  • glenn : CL–speaking of loonies, did you watch the Indiana primary debates? I think it was Indiana where all the loonies came out to “debate.”

  • choicelady : Murph – oh, pshaw. YOU do the heavy lifting! You’re in MISSOURI!

  • choicelady : glenn – polling indicates you’re right, Americans are FED UP with the loonies. They are losing many if not most primaries, and the public blames them for the gridlock in Congress.

  • glenn : CL–Hear, hear. I second your opinion on Murph’s patience.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks and just to balance the picture…I am constantly in awe of your many involvement often at the cutting edge….you humble me, regularly…

  • choicelady : Murph – Frustration walks with you every day, but mostly your reports show an amazing patience with people. That’s why you have done so well with helping people get health care etc.

  • glenn : CL–Oh I agree. Most of the cc on the right, especially the tpartiers, have such a sense of entitlement, it’s enough to make me want to bang my head against a wall. These people are the same age as me, and have lived through the same things. However, they’re just so angry that no one listens to them any more that they don’t know what to do, so they will just take matters into their own hands. Throughout all of the “tens” today, I was just thinking, as well have stated many times, just think if the OAS was comprised of black members, or Muslims, or atheists. And the same with the idiot rancher supporters. I think the only “good” thing to come out of this may be that the loonies from the deepest recesses of looniness are finally beginning to erupt, and sane Americans are finally reaching the bottom of their tolerance.

  • choicelady : Murph – I’d actually agree not in terms of what you say here but in how you work there. Slow and steady. Very wise, IMHO.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- likely, we have to be more subtle….and you that’s me through and through…humble and subtle.

  • choicelady : Murph – well I can see that! I’m in CA where they think they rule the world. I bet that makes the difference in our experiences.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- here in Mo. we on the left are more humble because there are so few of us.

  • choicelady : Murph – the Left folks I know have no sense of shame, ridiculousness, humility. They’re just as brazen.

  • choicelady : glenn – What bothers me is what bothers you. I believe people such as Bachmann actually think they DO have the right to insurrection, and they WANT it. So long, of course, they’re not sullied. I will never think them capable of addressing the primacy of the Constitution when they have no clue what’s in it.

  • glenn : CL–That’s why it has to be people on the right telling these groups that–not Pelosi. The cc on the right have to start upholding the oath that they took to the Constitution, no matter how much they disagree with President Obama.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the left generally blushes when you point that out, not the right.

  • glenn : CL–Your worry about another Tim McVeigh is exactly why I think these congress critters who have whipped these “patriots” into a frenzy should step up and defend the Constitution, and the ballot box. I have no problem with their right to disagree with the President. What I have a problem with is the cc not telling the groups that disagreements are fine; but they cannot take the law, the ballot box, nor the Constitution into their own hands.

  • choicelady : Murph – they have always thought ‘free speech’ meant unfettered speech with NO ONE having the right to argue with them. It’s rather an endemic problem even with the Left – their speech is golden. Yours isn’t.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- It is odd is it not that the right has to trouble trying to shut down people for saying things they disagree with-+-

  • choicelady : Murph – THAT is probably enormously hopeful!

  • choicelady : glenn – I have heard people such as Pelosi say that. It just falls on deaf ears.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Glenn…I saw a video of a guy yelling at the camera that “we are here, where are you”….apparen tly someone off camera said- “Most people aren’t crazy!”

  • choicelady : PPO – I think sometimes the best way to deal with extremism is to ignore it when it’s clear they have no support. That does not relieve me of the worry there’s another Tim McVeigh out there.

  • glenn : CL-I’m not asking that the tens be arrested or jailed. I am asking for congress critters to tell the tens that what they are asking for is neither constitutional nor legal, nor patriotic, and that they need to come up with a new “shtick”, and stop subverting the government.

  • choicelady : Murph – I suppose that’s OK in a society that reveres free speech. If we locked people up for anything short of a true threat – and there is a legal standard – it would be very repressive.

  • pinkpantheroz : glenn, a marvellous cause to pursue and it was a great way to do it. I hope against hope that your pollies reply with something that even vaguely resembles the subject of your question.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- I know three people who went to that “event” Crazy as loons with an insane perspective on the Constitution that no one challenges.

  • choicelady : glenn – I take heart from the new report that the FBI and DOJ are looking at the people who drew and aimed at federal and local officials at Bundy Ranch. The government is not taking that lightly. Apparently the tens did nothing overt so, no, they don’t get arrested or jailed. It is ACTS, not words that get you busted. And that’s probably a good thing.

  • glenn : CL–Yes, it is a little chilly tonight.

  • pinkpantheroz : Choice, don’t call me that until I’ve Googled it1

  • choicelady : PPO – LOL!!

  • glenn : Choice–You know, we do have to laugh at the “tens” who came to “overthrow” the government, but my pet peeve with that is that they can even thing they can overthrow the government. And no one is telling them that what they are asking for is illegal, against the constitution that they claim to love so much, and literally steals the votes of over 69 million people who voted for President Obama. That’s why I wrote to my congress critters. They need to be telling these people that they (the cc) are NOT going to allow these people to overthrow duly-elected government of the United States, no matter how much they disagree with the people who hold the offices. The congress critters should be defending the constitution, and the offices of the President, etc. That’s my passion about this issue.

  • pinkpantheroz : Thanks, choice. I love this forum, because it challenges me to come up with equally wise things like you all. For instance: Choice…. Oooooh! Don

  • choicelady : PPO – I think you just define Existentialism.. .

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, Murph, don’t sweat it. we all have to be in and out as well

  • choicelady : Murph – always good to see you.

  • choicelady : PPO – one of the many reasons we’re glad you’re here!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Stepped out for a moment and PPO, Glenn, Choice all stepped into the room….howdy, y’all.

  • pinkpantheroz : Always, glenn! [smiley].

  • choicelady : glenn – THAT is ridiculously chilly for your area!

  • glenn : Hey PPO–In the mood for some devilment, are you?

  • choicelady : Hi PPO – I think the devilment can partly be up to you? Suggestions? I’m still laughing over the TENS who came to overthrow the government today!

  • glenn : Choice–I’m fine. In the middle of a little cold spell–55 degrees–but other than that everything is good.

  • pinkpantheroz : hi glenn

  • pinkpantheroz : hi glann

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi, Murph, choice. Now what divilment can we get up to this evening???

  • choicelady : Evening, glenn! How are you? Murph was here but went away. Hope he comes back! What’s going on in your neck of the woods?

  • glenn : Hi Choice, Murph. What’s up?

  • choicelady : Hey Murph – how are you? Welcome!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Choice…when you get here..I am checking in early….

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PDT. Guest hosting tonight for me will be the always charming and witty, Choicelady. Should be a lot of fun, have a great Vox tonight!

 

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