AdLib : I hope that’s kind of a good thing? Very glad to have you here!
Fergie1 : Will do Ad! I’m now getting nothing done on Saturday afternoons thanks to these great chats on POV! .
AdLib : Night Fergie! You take care too and have a great day!
Fergie1 : Ad and Murph, Good Night good chaps! Thanks for the chat. See you all soon. And please take good care.
AdLib : Well, looks like it’s about that time, to wrap up this edition of Vox Populi. Thanks to all for another fun and fascinating live chat! Have a great weekend all, hope to see you here during it for the Weekend Music Thread and The Sunday Funnies on The Planet! Night!
AdLib : Sleep well Murph! Hope you’re feeling at least a tad better!
AdLib : Murph, right, that’s why I say that even if the District Court of Appeals is a dead end, this will continue thanks to the DoJ to the SCOTUS and in light of their declaration that racism was dead in the South, this would be hard to not strike down.
MurphTheSurf3 : Well I am at the end of my tether. So adieu!
AdLib : Murph – That’s it! That’s what the Dems need to do in 2014 IMO. Will Debbie Wasserman Schultz use that strategy? I don’t know, it’s bold and confident but that’s the way to win or lose.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- is the DOJ appealing the NC ruling.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….Deans 50 state strategy
AdLib : Murph – Absolutely, the NC laws go way too far and even the Roberts Court wouldn’t be able to leave them in place. They will be struck down and NC can and hopefully will be put back under pre-clearance jurisdiction.
AdLib : Fergie, I’ve been saying that the Dems really need to nationalize 2014 and that will help bring out more of the national numbers of voters we get in Presidential years. Also, the Dems could trump the Koch Cash and Grab by saying, “Here are all the things we promise to do if Dems control COngress.” And all Repubs can do is say, “No!”.
Fergie1 : BRB to those still here.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…how do you see the DOJ overturning the voter laws. In NC the district courts have ruled they stand beyond2014
Fergie1 : Ad, you nailed it with the operative words : “no affirmative reason to vote Repub”. Agree 1000%! They have offered nothing. Obama, even in his SOTU address asked them if they had anything better ot offer. Silence ensued. As you said the Dems need to kick this out of the ball park and knock it loud, often and then louder! Use the crescendo plan!
AdLib : Murph – I really do think you’re right and the Repubs are clueless as to how alienated the women’s vote is from them…and what an impact that will make in these close races. Add in the minority vote and the youth vote and the likelihood that the DoJ is going to get these Voter ID laws overturned…the Repubs don’t have the advantage they think they do. And though Wendy Davis isn’t likely to win, she will be accelerating the movement of women and moderates away from the GOP in TX.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…she and Grimes are speaking a stark truth to women in both states with real impact. Remember the old film, The Inn of the 6th Happiness? Bergman is appointed foot inspector with the job of getting women not to bind their girl babies feet. All she had to do was convince one woman….she did, a grandmother for whom the unbinding would be very painful, and with that sacrifice, the damn broke…..I think that women are beginning to arise in states Red, Redder and Reddest.
AdLib : Fergie – That’s my point, the Repubs can only run against Obama and policies and laws he supports. There is no affirmative reason to vote Repub and Dems should really hammer on that.
Fergie1 : Night Sabreen. Might see you tomorrow. Take care.
AdLib : What argument do Repubs really have anyway? Turning the poor, unemployed and Latinos into Soylent Green? Is that really a winner?
Fergie1 : At the risk of playing a broken record, at this point I think we should be concentrating on the Mid terms. The GOP is going to jump all over the Affordable Care Act and spinning what the CBO has come out with. MID TERMS folks!
AdLib : Night Sabreen! Have a great weekend!
Beatlex : Night Sabreen60!
AdLib : Murph and Sabreen – Indeed, GOTV in GA could have an amazing impact.
Sabreen60 : Well folks, I’ve gotta run. Take care and I look forward to the Music Thread.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab – right you are and that is where a lot of good Democratic Money needs to go…a Nunn win would have great impact in many ways.
AdLib : Murph – I wouldn’t say Nunn’s a likely winner but especially after Georgians have seen how Bagger Governors are a disaster when it comes to disasters, she may have a stronger case to make. And there are Repub voters who liked her dad.
Sabreen60 : Murph, I forgot how many thousands of unregistered black, Asian and Latino voters are in GA. It was a lot.
Beatlex : Boehner is Howdy Doody with a stick up his azz being manipulated by the T’S.He is useless
AdLib : Murph – Unfortunately, that is the minority of the nation that appears to be a majority of your state…Fox News Believers. They will vote against their own interests but do so deluding themselves that they’ll be able to keep their Medicaid expansion even though if Repubs won complete power, they would cut it out from under them. Not too much you can do when it comes to those living in a deluded reality.
Fergie1 : Good Night CL. Enjoy the weekend in Sacto!
Sabreen60 : AdLib, You nailed it. The audacity is stunning. When has Boehner done anything he said he would do. He changes more than Romney – if that’s possible.
MurphTheSurf3 : Nunn needs a mega black vote with the liberals of Atlanta and the five Hispanic pockets all going our way.
choicelady : Good night, AdLib – you too!
AdLib : Night CL! Sleep well!
AdLib : Sabreen – Boehner was so transparent, only those who believe what they hear on Fox News would believe him. Boehner WANTS immigration reform as an accomplishment for him as Speaker and for Repubs to crow about but the Baggers won’t let it happen. So, once again, he offers a lame “It’s Obama’s fault! We don’t trust him, you know, us Republicans who blackmailed the nation? Yeah, we don’t think he can be trusted to do the right thing for Americans.” What rational person would believe such CYA BS?
choicelady : Murph – good night dear heart. Be well and stay warm!
Beatlex : Thx CL!
choicelady : Sabreen – I hope to see you, too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Choice…you are a treasure…..Hap py Valentino Day
choicelady : Beatlex – whatever is going on in your life, I hope it sorts itself out. Be well!
Sabreen60 : CL, Good night! I hope to see you somewhere this week. Happy Valentine’s Day to you, also.
Beatlex : Take care choicelady! get some rest
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I was at a meeting of folks pushing for Medicaid expansion…mixe d crowd…..but the GOP types, the majority were clear….”Medic aid Expansion is a good idea…..BUT NO OBAMACARE” They are Koch Crowds.
choicelady : Murph – just saw your revolution message and TOTALLY agree!
choicelady : AdLib and everyone – I have had a very long day. We are having a review Tuesday on our health care grant, and I had to clean the office – scrubbing, vacuuming, etc. along with my regular work. I’m whipped! If we didn’t let it get so messy, this wouldn’t happen. That said, I’m needing to hit the hay, so good night everyone. Pick our next Dem candidate, and I will jump on it soon. Be well – and Happy Valentine’s Day to all. I won’t be here next week, so have a lovely day with all those whom you love.
AdLib : Murph – Right with you, I think at least one of Pryor or Begich can win and Hagan could hold on…and don’t count Michelle Nunn out in GA.
MurphTheSurf3 : Fergie- I met him when his candidacy was only a “favorite son” wannabe’s….th us Fired Up and Ready to Go and Hope and Change were born.
Beatlex : AdLib,I hope so too.But sh++ keeps happening out of my contol
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice the plutocratic libertarianism of the Kochs and their fellow travelers is the stuff that nightmares and revolutions are made from.
AdLib : Beatlex – Hope all is well now!
choicelady : Sabreen – Boehner’s comment is SO ABSURD there is almost no reply!
AdLib : Murph – The Kochs are drowning voters in many states in their lies and propaganda but first of all, it’s debatable how advertising before Summer really pays off. Even with all the Christie stuff wall to wall in the media, many people across the US just aren’t paying attention. And as long as the Dems come out strong starting in the Summer with what their controlling Congress means to Americans, I think they’ll be able to combat the Koch’s fortune well.
choicelady : Fergie – I agree, and since I come from Chicago (Buffalo was later) I know the areas where he worked and what he did. He’s amazing.
Sabreen60 : Back for a few. I was just thinking how Boehner said on national TV that he can’t trust Prez Obama. That man makes me want to do not-so-nice things to him.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….got it Grimes and Landrieu….Pryo r could do it with the Clintons, and Begich has a good shot in Alaska since they will find a crazy to run against him. Think that Hagan can hang on?
Fergie1 : Murph, He is one President I would really liked to have met at any point. What he and his time did was fantastic. He worked it all the way up from almost nothing to become President and for that I’m truly delighted.
choicelady : Murph – I saw that on Chris Hayes, and it IS scary. The question every Dem should be asking is do you want a country dictated to by two rich brothers who care nothing about you? I’d start a kind of “Marie Antoinette” meme about the Kochs.
Beatlex : Hello AdLIb! things have been crazy for me lately!
choicelady : AdLib – Yes they certainly do act like that. Had hopes there might be ONE adult in the mix, but you’re quite right that they are not.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad you do not need to ask but I am aware of how many tens of millions the Kochs and their ilk are pouring into the races….way ahead of their 2010 numbers.
AdLib : Hey Beatlex!
choicelady : sorry -glad they have a family compound there!
AdLib : Murph – I responded below but will have a more detailed projection later on.
choicelady : Fergie – that’s actually Buffalo proper then. Good – get FAR less snow than the southtowns! I LOVE North Buffalo. Glad they have a ‘
AdLib : CL – But it’s true isn’t it? Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, Ryan, Paul, Cruz, they all behave like they’re children or mentally unbalanced.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad I asked earlier how you see the Dems holding onto the Senate….
Fergie1 : Cl, North Buffalo puleease! .
Beatlex : All the names mentioned on the Dem side will be FAR better than whoever the Bozo R’s put forward
MurphTheSurf3 : Beatlex….never too late for an excursion on the planet.
choicelady : AdLib – when you put it that way, it’s actually scary.
AdLib : There really isn’t anyone in the GOP who looks like a mentally balanced adult.
choicelady : Hi Beatlex! Welcome. Never too late.
Beatlex : To late for stragglers?
Fergie1 : Ad, forgot to share – Paul Ryan Presidential? Hilarious Ad.
choicelady : Fergie – that was Biden at his best indeed!
choicelady : Murph – Your observations about Obama’s growth as a candidate and a person are very wonderful. Thank you for sharing them with us!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL how well you recall it.
Fergie1 : AdLib, Paul Ryan! Ha Ha! The best part of the VP contest was biden making a laughing stock of Ryan in the debates. Oh Biden was sooo clever.
choicelady : Murph – yours is my FAVORITE story! Only ONE degree of separation!
MurphTheSurf3 : Fergie….I got to meet Obama in those early days of the campaign when his chances were small….he was seen as someone introducing himself to the nation for a run down the road but just a jog in 2008….
choicelady : AdLib – slimy stuff ALWAYS oozes under the limbo bar.
AdLib : CL – Good point! And we thought Quayle set the bar too low for other Repubs to limbo under!
choicelady : AdLib – I sure hope you’re right. But they sat it out in 2010…
choicelady : Fergie – if we could reconstruct the Obama team and do the fifty state strategy, we’d win. With the progs sitting it out, it’s not clear we can.
AdLib : CL – Faux Dems are such a small minority or voters, I don’t think their staying home will make a real difference (they’re also not in the battleground states for the most part).
Fergie1 : CL et al. The time was right for Obama to win . The GOP was flailing big time. And Obama had the smarts over Hillary. Obama had a great grass roots team and it all worked thank goodness. Lots to write, but I’m too slow here!
choicelady : AdLib – first Dan Quayle, then the rest, the drunken superficial frat boys. Then add in the self important Dominionistst (not inconsistent with the frat boys) and you have an unmanageable mess.
AdLib : Fergie – Then again, Paul Ryan sure comes off as Presidential, doesn’t he? Can’t we all imagine a greedy frat boy in the WH…hey wait, who was President before Obama and destroyed our country?
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice you have named so many of my UH-UH’s thus I am not ready for Hillary, I am very skeptical
choicelady : Fergie – that is what Charley Christ is saying about the GOP. He left because it was unrecognizable. They have been there before – McCarthy era – and have to recover and be adults again. NOT in my lifetime I think.
choicelady : AdLib – I seriously think we can even win the House, but it maybe is reduced with the faux progs sitting it out. DAMN.
Fergie1 : Rand Paul . Oh yes, please do run Rand. Total doofus. Nancy Pelosi had a good suggestion for the GOP ” Take your Party back”!
AdLib : Murph – I haven’t handicapped all the races but I do think Alison Grimes will beat McConnell when it’s all said and done. Landrieu will once again pull it out. I’ll go through the rest but when I last went through them, I saw the Dems hanging on.
choicelady : Fergi – that’s so funny! Are they ‘Northtowns” or “Southtowns”? Makes a HUGE difference in snow accumulation!
choicelady : Murph – Clinton caved on SO many things. I voted for him twice, LIKE him as a person, but he is the typical Dem who gives in. She is the same only she gives in BEFORE she has to because she actually isn’t very liberal. And she had ties to C Street Dominionists that still worry me.
Fergie1 : Cl, they are in the Burbs. There are so many of them, I call it the …….(Name) Compound as they all live within fives blocks of each other!
AdLib : If it was Biden vs. Rand Paul? Or Biden vs. Jeb Bush? Biden would crush them.
choicelady : Sabreen – we need to do some heavy thinking about good candidates. E. Warren is OUT – I totally accept she is not interested. Biden seems ready to be in. Who else?
MurphTheSurf3 : CL….very possible….Bill made the 2008 mess possible with Wall Street deregulation
Sabreen60 : BBL. I hope
choicelady : Fergie – they said in 2006 that Obama could not win. And…
Sabreen60 : I hope there are some good Dem candidates who will step up during the primary. I don’t want to see Hillary be totally unopposed in the primary.
AdLib : Night glenn!
choicelady : Fergie – I miss old Buffalo, warts and all. NOT the cold and snow even though I don’t mind winter. It has real charms. Are they in he city or the suburbs? Does make a difference in attitude!
Fergie1 : And a Howdie to you Murph. ALWAYS good to see you!
choicelady : Murph – Bill was the original chickenshit. He caved on everything, and Hillary is not such a weenie, but she already has shown her willingness to give up principle to get what she wants.
Fergie1 : CL, I don’t think that Hillary should even run! But I truly feel that Biden would not win even though he has all those qualities you mentioned. BTW, I lived in Buffalo for a short time when I was a kid! Still have a brother there and tons of nieces and nephews.
MurphTheSurf3 : I wonder if Hillary with Bill will be better scrappers than Obama, more willing to take scalps, more at ease with the down and dirty?
choicelady : That was “we should all GET PPOV…”
choicelady : Sabrfeen – in the general, of course. We should all bet PPOV nose clips if that happens!
Sabreen60 : I really don’t want Hillary. But I will hold my nose and vote for her. Holding my nose is something I’ve done before.
MurphTheSurf3 : goodnight Glenn
choicelady : Good night glenn – enjoy the warm towels even in the ‘balmy’ weather you now have. See you soon!
Fergie1 : Night glenn. Take care.
choicelady : Fergie – no one, and I mean NO ONE, thought BHO was remotely a candidate. Not even him. And look what happened. Biden has the verve of Obama and the smarts and is gregarious and attractive none of which you can say about Hillary or any of the GOP. I think very highly of him and think he MIGHT pull this off.
MurphTheSurf3 : Howdie Fergie
Sabreen60 : Night glenn.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad what is your tally on the Senate. How do the Dems hold it.
Sabreen60 : I like my Governor, Martin O’Malley, but he doesn’t have the name recognition and probably not even the needed experience. But he’s a good guy and a committed liberal. I also Chris Van Hollen. Maybe I’m bias about Maryland Reps.
glenn : Okay, folks, time for me to call it a night. Always enjoy my Friday nights on Vox. Take care, and as KT said, stay warm or cool, depending on how you want to be. I think everyone should have choices! G’night, all!
choicelady : Murph – I am SO with you on that! Biden is amazing in a scuffle.
Fergie1 : Many thanks for all the welcomes – just lovely. Really like Biden and I think he is a force to be reckoned with but that, I don’t think, is the perception of the American voters. On the whole a high percentage would think of him as a softie. But in fact he is a ‘wiley’ and canny man with great capacity.
choicelady : AdLib – bless your phony-picking heart! Thank you!
MurphTheSurf3 : I repeat: Biden loves the idea of the fight….he loves the idea of being in the fray…he loves remaining a player when he could be easily relegated as the lamest of ducks….he loves keeping Hillary on her toes…and I love him for it. Go Joe.
AdLib : Murph and CL – First off, Priorities will be disappointed this year because I think the Dems will hold onto the Senate. Second, their brand of evil will be further exposed and that can tarnish their “savior”. They’ve made me an adversary now and I plan on being quite vocal on The Planet about them.
choicelady : Sabreen – Joe biden with brain damage is LEAGUES ahead of people with all their cells in place!!!
choicelady : AdLib – bill already showed he swerves. He went all goopy when the GOP got power. He has the backbone of a noodle, and she is ruthlessly calculating. Yes – GOP Lite is very much what I fear.
Sabreen60 : CL
glenn : CL–I’m with you on Biden. I’d much rather see him as the Democratic nominee than HRC.
choicelady : Sabreen – I’d forgotten that. But I STILL like him better than almost anyone, gaffs, brain damage, or whatever.
choicelady : Fergie – CC was ON the bridge 9/11 with Wildstein!!!! No WAY he gets around that – there are photos.
AdLib : Biden would be very smart to run for President because the best laid plans of mice and 1%ers often go awry. If everyone keeps saying Hillary is inevitable, it only makes Fate chuckle. SOmething could come out, she could say or do something, she could pull a Bill and swerve over to being Republican-Lite to triangulate. Who knows but whoever just stays in the game can end up winning it. But if you’re not in, you can’t win.
Sabreen60 : I like Biden but I just don’t see him as president. I’m a little worried about his health. Everyone talks about his gaffs, but I think it has to do with the aneurysm he had. Anytime the brain is damaged there is some negative effect – even if mild. I’m no doctor, but I know my hubby had a very mild stroke and I see changes in him all the time.
choicelady : glenn – AMEN!
Fergie1 : Just reading a few comments here. I could not believe that CC said that he didn’t know that there were jams on the Washington Bridge, that this information was not at the gubernatorial level! He doesn’t watch/hear the NEWS in his own State? WTF!
choicelady : AdLib – they seem to be. It’s the old Dem. Socialist thing of let it get bad and blow up, and ‘we’ will fix it. But define “WE” here. This sacrifices people in need to believing Hillary can be the savior. BS!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Priorities is playing a nasty game here and it may have as much to do with their looking at the meager number of billionaires they have to tap….
glenn : CL–Totally agree. The state races are where the tp is making the most of their meager support. It’s up to ALL Dems to rid our states of the tp!
choicelady : glenn – I very much agree!
AdLib : So let me get this straight, the Priorities for Priorities is watching Republicans take control of Congress? Really?
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn Biden loves the idea of the fight….he loves the idea of being in the fray…he loves remaining a player when he could be easily relegated as the lamest of ducks….he loves keeping Hillary on her toes…and I love him for it. Go Joe.
glenn : CL–I love Biden. I think he’s a genuine, down-to-earth individual. Also, the repubs can’t say he’s just a “community organizer”–the y can’t say he’s spent all his life in the government, because then they’d have to say the same thing RandPaul and Eddie Munster.
choicelady : Murph – I totally agree and for ‘progressives’ to bow out of state races is despicable. People’s LIVES are on the line. How DARE they blow that off, stupid privileged white people with jobs and probably trust funds!
AdLib : Hey Fergie! Welcome!
glenn : Hi Fergie!
choicelady : glenn – I like Biden. I’d seriously consider him.
Sabreen60 : Hi Fergie!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL The Dems have to hold the Senate or Obama will spend his last two years saying the word veto in every waking minute.
glenn : Ad, Murph, CL–I read today that Biden is not ruling out running for president. What are your thoughts on that?
choicelady : Hi Fergie – welcome!
Fergie1 : ‘Evening All! I’m a bit late to the chat.
AdLib : Night Kes! Night KT!
KillgoreTrout : Thanks all. Good night Homie!
glenn : G’night kes. Take care and sleep well.
choicelady : Murph – it’s more than a gesture. it’s the heart of THEIR needing to account for this insanity.
Sabreen60 : Good night Kes and KT. Take care.
choicelady : kes – good night. Lovely to see you here!
glenn : KT–G’night. Sleep well.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice I am sure they will miss my $25 a quarter but it is the gesture that counts.
kesmarn : Likewise, KT. I’ll have to call it a day, too. Have a wonderful weekend, kids. And stay warm/cool as necessary!
choicelady : KT – sorry to lose you so soon! Stay warm and dry as best you can!
choicelady : AdLib – Eddie Muster??? How funny!
KillgoreTrout : Ad the music thread is done and awaiting approval.
choicelady : glenn – I’m with you there! No more dynasties – at least not ones built on such shallow people.
KillgoreTrout : Well folks, I got to call it an early night. Take care.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab- your back story on Bill campaigning in KY makes sense – thanks.
choicelady : Murph – thank you for making your values known to Priorities! Because I’m a lobbyist and forbidden to get involved in elections (state rules not federal) I lose track of groups such as this so I can’t even withdraw because I don’t belong!
glenn : CL–I agree with you that the other issues are more important. But that’s not what Rand is going after–which is why I posted what I did. Just as I don’t think we need another bush in the white house, I don’t think we need another Clinton, either.
AdLib : I heard pudnuts in the media claiming that Paul Ryan now looks to be the probable favorite. Eddie Munster for President! The Huckster was in the lead by 1 point in a CNN poll this week but this early it’s all about name recognition. And the luke warm cheerleading for Jeb Bush is just astounding. He threw the election in 2000, has come out against immigration reform, has a whole slew of Christie-like baggage in his closet…I can’t wait until GOP primary season!
kesmarn : I did hear that Alison Grimes is ahead of Mitch McTurtle in the polls these days in KY. Good news!
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn I have the same thoughts regarding Billy Boy BUT he redeemed himself in the years since and I always credit Hillary with having seen the goodness, the greatness in him and never letting go of it. As to the rest…she is too close to big business like Bill is and she is more interventionist than I am comfortable with.
choicelady : kes – I never thought I’d appreciate Larry Flynt, but when he outed the lying cheating GOP my heart was gleeful!
choicelady : Sabreen – I think Rand can mewl all he wants, Clinton is popular and will do Grimms a good turn.
Sabreen60 : Good for you Murph. Just about every liberal I’ve heard is pretty pissed about Priorities.
choicelady : glenn – I never really care about people’s ‘stand by’ or ‘kick out’ choices. It’s her coziness with corporations, her very close ties to C Street Dominionists that worries the hell out of me. Bill got sucked into the hedge fund/global capital maw and sold out everyone. He CAUSED part of the outcome of the 2008 crash by passing the demise of Glass-Stegall so we HAD to bail out the banks to protect our own deposits. Now the Volcker Rule is in place, that’s not going to happen – but I’ve heard nothing about these issues from Hillary which is very worrisome.
kesmarn : glenn, so many of them were cheating at the time they were going after Clinton. That was a true witch hunt. But I have mixed feelings about both of them,too. I’d love to see someone younger and more idealistic — like E. Warren or Sherrod Brown — as the candidate.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab…I was a donor to Priorities until I read that. Called them today and asked to be taken off their list. I also canceled by volunteerism.
KillgoreTrout : You just might be right Murph. He’s making a lot of noise these days.
Sabreen60 : Rand has called Clinton a predator, twice. Speculation is that Clinton is suppose to campaign in KY for Grimms (?) and this will tarnish Clinton in the eyes of the voters and give McConnell a chance.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice I think that Rand is going to emerge as the GOP front runner. He is tea partyish enough and establishment friendly (where is teddy cruzer?) to be the alternative to Crisco.
choicelady : Sabreen – that is hideously worrisome. Over at TPV the thought is they WANT it to get bad, to distance Hillary from Obama so she can be the ‘savior’.
KillgoreTrout : Wink Wink!
glenn : Murph and kes–I still have mixed feelings about the Clintons. I think the gop went way too far in the nonsense of impeachment over Lewinsky. On the other hand, although I understand why Hillary would want to “stand by her man”, she set her own credibility back with staying with Bill. That’s just my opinion, of course. I also know that she was “damned if she did and damned if she didn’t” as far as divorcing Bill went. I really wish I didn’t know anything about it, as I felt then, and still feel, that it was their private business and not any business of Congress. Especially when Gingrich was cheating on his wife at the time!
choicelady : KT – that’s not the issue so much as, you know, “THEY” are watching. Can only bring the white sheets out at the campfire…
Sabreen60 : Murph I heard what Rand said about Clinton. But I have another question. What’s up with Priorities USA not putting any money in the 2014 election. There have some pretty negative reasons out there in cyberspace why they’re not – intentionally trying to tarnish PBO’s record – hoping that Repubs win House and Senate so Hillary can come to the rescue in 2016
KillgoreTrout : Absolutely CL. The SCOTUS has already said racism is a thing of the past. Wink Wink!
choicelady : Murph – Rand is a man desperately clinging to sand while being washed out to sea. I just laugh.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice – Paul is claiming he is not fit to raise money for her and that he is not fit to be in the WH again…
choicelady : KT – Exactly like Big Daddy in ‘Cat”. He needs the white suit because you just cannot wear your sheets in public these days.
kesmarn : Good one!
KillgoreTrout : Fat Cat on a Tin Roof?
kesmarn : That’s a perfect image for the “Huckster,” CL!
choicelady : Murph – that ‘Hillary is responsible for Bill’ thing is going to backfire on Rand.
choicelady : kes – I think he still believes ‘he’s a contendah’ so no, he will keep losing weight and lookin’ good. Note – Huckabee who lost a ton is now gaining it back. He’s looking very Fat Southern Daddy-ish these days. All he needs is a white suit.
KillgoreTrout : CL, that’s true about Reagan.
kesmarn : I saw that, Murph. They’re presenting Bill Clinton as the “anti-feminist. “
pinkpantheroz : Not the Orange Jumpsuit again, I just had lunch! BTW, thanks to genius AdLib for the hilarious article on Christie’s Cabinet!
MurphTheSurf3 : well the GOP with Rand Paul in the lead are holding of Bill Clinton as the great sinner…all in readiness for Hillary of course but also as a distractor.
choicelady : KT – Maybe the TP would think Reagan and Nixon liberal, but there was a whole lot to love in them. Reagan started all the Dominionist presence. He loved those End Times zealots and adopted a lot of their views. Nixon predated the whole thing, so it’s harder to say.
kesmarn : CL, I wonder if he’s considering having that gastric surgery reversed these days. (There’s speculation now that Paul Ryan will be the GOP nominee in 2016.)
pinkpantheroz : Sorry, glenn, I missed your earlier question. Yes it does get down to the minuses in winter, but in the Southern parts only. We actually have ski resorts in our Snowy Mountains!
choicelady : kes – He HAS lost weight and looks much better. Too little, too late though – all that surgery for nothing. You don’t need to look good in an orange jump suit.
choicelady : Sabreen – that’s what I hear, and that’s as it should be. The blatant misuse of federal dollars is despicable.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I said today’s GOP would see Nixon that way. Certainly not me.
choicelady : glenn – I would NOT disagree with your assessment!
Sabreen60 : CL, I think the prosecutors are more interested in the Sandy funds than bridgegate.
kesmarn : Christie’s too big to do almost anything. (Couldn’t resist.)
glenn : CL–c’mon–Geng his Khan was more moderate than today’s tp.
choicelady : KT – Reagan’s administration still holds the national record for corruption.
KillgoreTrout : I think there were over 300 peopl in the Reagan adminstration who were either under investigation, on trial, or already in jail.
choicelady : Sabreen – Christie in his OWN mind was ‘too big to fail”.
choicelady : KT – I totally don’t agree with that. Nixon’s policies may occasionally have been moderate, but he and Reagan were NOT liberals at all. That’s just not accurate. They were more moderate than today’s TP of course – but not liberals. Nope.
Sabreen60 : AdLib, I saw a former Port Authority guy interviewed. It was incredulous at what has happened at the Port since Christi took office. He said it use to a-political until Christi brought all his henchmen in.
kesmarn : Exactly!
choicelady : kes – oh that’s rich! You become a ‘true conservative’ by committing a crime????
KillgoreTrout : Oh kes, today’s GOP would call Nixon a flaming liberal.
glenn : Ad–Of course, Christie’s lies just ceas to exist in people’s memories. At least in gop/tp land. Hell, they hardly remember gwb, and always insist that U.S history begain on Jan. 20, 2009 when PBO took office.
choicelady : glenn – GOT IT! And it’s true, isn’t it? Clinton impeached, Weiner resigns. Vitter and his prostitute who diapers him – leader of the pack.
kesmarn : True, KT. It’s as though being a liar is a job requirement for them. I read recently that some hard line RWers didn’t accept Nixon as a “real conservative” UNTIL Watergate.
choicelady : PPO – it’s on MSNBC and Twitter a great deal – they have to know. Frankly as icky as the Bridgegate is, I’m FAR more angry about the misuse of FEMA money – there are desperate people who’ve received NOTHING while Christie funneled it to contractor buddies in Unaffected cities.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I would think the GOPers would see that as a plus.
choicelady : AdLib – so incompetence gets him a pass? Seriously?
glenn : CL–It’s O.K. If You’re A Republican
kesmarn : AdLib, I almost hope they do run him. It would be sooo easy.
choicelady : glenn – I’m acronym challenged?
Sabreen60 : Kes, He’s using legal-speak. “It came into his conscience” or some such BS. How could he not know anything work weeks or months. Which ever story you choose to believe.
pinkpantheroz : Great point, CL, hope the Feds get to see the videotape!
choicelady : PPO – Good for the IOC on Putin, but he had to have understood that heads of state could NOT go under the terror threats, the human rights abuses. Stupid to think symbolism matters over reality.
AdLib : I can hardly stand the news pudnuts trying to show how impartial and wise they are by saying, “If Christie isn’t proven to have lied, he could be a contender.” Huh? Hiring a band of criminals and throwing them all under the bus just ceases to exist in people’s memories?
glenn : CL–The answer to your question: IOKIYAR
kesmarn : Hahaha! I did not know that, CL!
choicelady : kes – how can Christie deny it when he stood ON the bridge with Wildstein on 9/11 in the middle of the closure?
KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, my 84 year old mother just said that to me about a week ago.
pinkpantheroz : I know that some of us, me included will be boycotting the Putin Propaganda show, but I did see the IOC Chief give Russia a bollocking over human rights and respect! He also had a few choice jabs at the US and GB for not sending officials.
kesmarn : AdLib, to get back to Christie — I gather he’s actually now denying that he even was aware that there WERE any traffic jams. How oblivious would anyone have to be? Nobody’s going to buy that.
choicelady : PPO – we are about 41 tonight so far. You ALL are welcome here, and I imagine glenn would take you in for her mild 40s, too. WE HAVE RAIN though!!! Finally with quite a lot predicted for the weekend.
KillgoreTrout : I’d take 105, as long as there were almost 0 humidity.
glenn : Hi PPO! Will our situations be reversed in July and August? Will you be freezing while we’re sweltering? It doesn’t get that cold in Oz, does it?
Sabreen60 : Hi Pink!
choicelady : PPO -105??? Sorry about that!
pinkpantheroz : Hi, Murph and Choice, right now, I’d love to trade!
KillgoreTrout : Which one’s Pink? What’s up PPO?
choicelady : PPO – Hi!
choicelady : Sabreen – Bette absolutely knew it. Good luck with your eyes. I am totally with you in heart and spirit over it. Scary stuff eyes.
MurphTheSurf3 : Pink…it is a balmy 11 degrees here right now. Trade?
choicelady : glenn – I know your feelings. It’s one thing to want it all for yourself. Quite another to do the definitive for one you love. I’m very glad you did NOT have to make that choice.
kesmarn : PPO! Hey! We’re only about 100 degrees apart!
Sabreen60 : CL, That’s my email tag line. “Old age is not for sissies” Bette Davis
KillgoreTrout : I recently read Christopher Hitchen’s last book, “Mortality,” in which he vividly records his own dying of cancer. Just a gruesome way to go. But he wrote, right up until the end.
pinkpantheroz : Hi, everybody, sorry I’m late. Sweltering on 105F right now! A/C busting its guts trying to cope. Sorry some of you are freezing your proverbials off! What’s the main theme tonight?
choicelady : kes – nuns positively understand it.
choicelady : Sabreen – I have TOTAL sympathy because I have nicks in each retina, totally unfixable, that make things blurry with floaters. Old age is NOT for sissies – and congrats on not being there until April!!!
kesmarn : CL I worked for an order of nuns here about 15 years ago in their retirement home and they did the same thing. NO extraordinary measures. When it was your time, that was it. Very peaceful.
glenn : KT–I’m sad to hear your comment about the alternative, but I do understand it. My husband had many health problems, and he used to beg me to not let him “live” if he would be a vegetable. Although I understood how he felt, I was never sure I could “pull the plug” on him. I never had to make that decision because he died suddenly of a heart attack.
choicelady : AdLib – Christie is SO SCREWED by his own hands!
Sabreen60 : CL, Nothing serious. I’m having an issue with my eye. Will see doctor Monday. I got my Medicare card so my sister says I’m officially old. I told her not until April 2.
choicelady : kes – I was lucky. My father, an atheist, was in a Catholic nursing home at the end. When he could no longer swallow, they just let him fade away per his wishes. This was all just before Terri Schiavo, and they honored his desires.
KillgoreTrout : Same here CL. We should thank our lucky stars. I almost bought the farm several times in my life. I sometimes wonder why, or how I’m still here, and healthy. It’s a mystery.
AdLib : CL – So Christie’s office, which released that petty and immature attack on Wildstein thinks it helps Christie’s credibility for him to claim he knew nothing about it? Christie’s ploy to play dumb, inept and ignorant and selecting the worst and most devious people (according to him, to cover his ass) to work for him…is supposed to “save” his reputation? WHo would elect a President who is clueless and hires criminals?
choicelady : \glenn – I third that!
choicelady : KT – that’s true for us all I think, but I’m too nosy about what’s around the next bend to give up easily, and at the moment I’m blessed with very good health even in antiquity.
kesmarn : I second that.
glenn : Sabreen–I vote for Christie being a liar!
KillgoreTrout : I think for me, there will come a time when the alternative would be preferable.
choicelady : Sabreen – it’s a no win for Christie, yes.
choicelady : kes – I agree. That family went through hell.
Sabreen60 : CL, It’s stunning how Christi knows nothing about nothing.He’s in a no win situation. Either he’s a complete idiot who doesn’t know anything his staff does or he’s a liar.
kesmarn : And talk about “pain and suffering” for the family of that TX pregnant woman. I think they’d have a real case.
choicelady : Sabreen – are you OK though? I’m sorry if you have things slowing you down especially if they cause you pain.
AdLib : glenn – Absolutely, the husband shouldn’t pay that religious extremist hospital a penny since a judge ruled that what they were doing was illegal.
choicelady : Sabreen – we all are dealing with ‘getting old issues’ – but it beats the alternative!
KillgoreTrout : Murph, when did you move to Ohio? Just kidding.
choicelady : Murph – that’s sort of what I saw on the weather, but I’m never sure they get it right. Sorry – keep that wood fire going!
glenn : Hey Sabreen! How are you?
choicelady : Sabreen – That IS the right thing to say about CC. Did you see his office is claiming he had no knowledge of the attack on Wildstein? Either he’s a liar or incredibly inetp.
kesmarn : Aren’t we all, Sabreen?
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- bitter cold here. 3 degrees today in the morn and a balmy 17 in the evening.
Sabreen60 : Hey Kess et al, I’m ok. Just dealing with getting old issues
glenn : CL–Yup–serious ! In the same article, it also says that a lot of people are starting a fund for the husband. Personally, I think the husband should not have to pay one red cent! Let the hospital sue for their money. And, Kes, I hope the husband sues, too!
choicelady : SABREEN!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen and Murph.
choicelady : KT – that’s sort of a different issue. They still think there is death – just transfiguration after. But we are still just ‘predead’ by this judging something as what it not yet is. If you see my point. Talk about convoluted…
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! How are you?
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello glenn, cl, kt, kes, ad, sabreen I think I got you all.
kesmarn : What — er — wine? Did you guys see any wine?
Sabreen60 : Hi all! Chris Christie Stars in High School Farcical!
AdLib : Hey all, I’m back! Hey…what happened to all the wine in my wine rack!
choicelady : kes – I’d sue them into the ground. Despicable!
KillgoreTrout : CL, no, these people are afterlifers who think we never really die. I say no one knows, but these folks are convinced they know.
kesmarn : glenn, I saw that. I’m not a bit surprised that that hospital may bill the parents. I hope they sue.
choicelady : glenn – YOU SERIOUS? They are demanding payment from the husband for doing what he did not want???? OMG!
glenn : Hey Murph–how goes it?
choicelady : Murph – we don’t care about spelling, only that you’re here. WELCOME! How is your weather and how are your crops faring?
kesmarn : Hey, Murph!
glenn : Kes–speaking of fetuses in utero, I read that the case in TX where the courts kept the mother alive against the husband’s wishes, that the hospital is now wanting the husband to pay for the costs of keeping her alive! (Convuluted sentence, I know, but couldn’t think of a way to say it.)
kesmarn : Exactly. That life would have mattered. After birth apparently, not so much.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello all….I am on a new keyboard tonight so expect that my spelling will be loonier than usual.
choicelady : kes – if fetuses are ‘preborn babies’ does it mean all of us are just ‘predead adults’?
choicelady : kes – I expect under THOSE circumstances they still would have exempted everyone. The guilt that will follow the older child though – do NOT even want to think about it. If he killed a ‘preborn’ baby, he will be harshly judged forever.
KillgoreTrout : Good question kes. You know how those righties feel about abortion.
kesmarn : In their book, I mean.
kesmarn : But if the 3 year old had shot a fetus in utero, well that would have been a different story….?
choicelady : kes – it will happen again. This time Jesus may have stepped out for a smoke.
choicelady : glenn – I think that was speculation, but I think they are correct.
kesmarn : Oh Lord — CL, if there are no consequences for those parents — well, that’s a double tragedy.
choicelady : kes – don’t think it’s going to happen. Sanctity of motherhood and gunhood.
glenn : Kes–I read that someone involved in the case of the 3-year-old said something to the effect of, “the parents have already been punished enough, so we don’t need to punish them more.” IOW, no jail time.
kesmarn : CL, I’ve seen that photo. Grounds for the state to step in and monitor that mom, imho.
choicelady : kes – don’t hold your breath. Alabama. They are white.
kesmarn : I doubt that Jesus is going to save the parents of the 3 year old from child endangering charges and some jail time. At least I hope not.
KillgoreTrout : Good question CL.
glenn : KT–Much of what the GOP does nowadays is totally insane, IMO. It’s either insane or willful ignorance, or both!
choicelady : kes – there is a photo of a mother letting a pre-1-year-old teethe on her pistol. NOT making that up.
KillgoreTrout : kes, I don’t think they care, as long as they can keep people buying them.
choicelady : KT – a 3 year old shot his younger sister but she survived. The family declares “Jesus saved her”. My question was – where was he when junior was getting the gun?
kesmarn : Don’t you just have to wonder what age they truly do think is “too young” to carry a gun?
KillgoreTrout : It’s totally insane.
choicelady : kes – isn’t that already their slogan? Thought I thought it was for 3-year-olds.
choicelady : KT – By which I mean interfere with the ones that don’t.
kesmarn : KT, that is almost surreal. I’m sure that the NRA is thinking of minors carrying guns to school. “It takes a good 7th grader with a gun to stop a bad 7th grader with a gun.”
choicelady : KT – I think the state’s rights issues will prevail. Many states allow minors to carry already. I doubt the SCOTUS will interfere.
glenn : Kes–Not to mention that those 63-year-olds who want to retire can be replaced by much younger workers, who are also much cheaper, given that a 63-year-old may be higher up on the salary scale.
choicelady : glenn- the only problem, of course, is that we don’t have the dollar figure between the two. Same with Golden Parachutes – what value do you have to have before you get a lifetime bail out vs. a pink slip? Would be SO helpful to know that, right?
KillgoreTrout : I read a rather distrubing thing today about two cases before the supreme court, and one of them is that the NRA is trying to strike down a law that would ban minors from carrying guns. I forget which state it was in. That’s totally insane and is proof positive that the NRA could care less about public safety.
kesmarn : I doubt that too many GOPTP people read Krugman, CL. I’m sure he’s been on their Commie List for years now. Forget about that pesky Nobel that he won.
glenn : CL–I guess that’s it. I keep forgetting the rules are different for the rich and the poor.
choicelady : glenn – I LOVE Bed, Bath & Beyond even if they DO stalk me on the internet. I will look for that.
kesmarn : I may have to put the towel warmer on next Christmas’s wish list, glenn.
choicelady : kes – I saw Kalima’s link. Krgman can say ALL he wants – the GOP have a lifetime supply of earplugs.
kesmarn : Good point, glenn! And how many 63 year old people would love to quit the jobs that they’d been barely hanging on to (only for the health coverage)? Now they can do it!
glenn : Kes–You can get the towel warmers at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Mine is like a canister that I just place the towels in before I get in the shower. By the time I’m done with my shower, VOILA–my towels are warm!
choicelady : glenn – poor women have to work. Rich women have to stay home. Got it now?
kesmarn : Kalima linked to a great article by Paul Krugman in which he TOTALLY debunked all the lies about that CBO statement. In plain English that even Cantor should be able to comprehend.
glenn : CL–So much for the family value republican party, right? They just can’t make up their minds–should women be in the work force “taking jobs away” from all those men, or should they be home taking care of the children that the GOP forces them to have?
choicelady : kes – Cantor and others are still lying about it all. JOB KILLER. Idiots.
kesmarn : glenn, I was just thinking about those towel warmers earlier today. That would be handy!
choicelady : glenn and kes – I’m drooling in envy even though it’s only in the low 40s here.
kesmarn : glenn — doesn’t Eric Cantor WISH the CBO had said that!
choicelady : kes – thank you. I’m ON it!
glenn : Kes–the first year I lived here in GA, I got a towel warmer for Christmas. I absolutely love it! Sometimes, I put my pajamas in it right before bed to warm them up!
choicelady : glenn – yeah, right. I said from the git go, the actual headline was “Two and a half million jobs will be freed up as people can work less now they have health care. Big help to the unemployed populations!” But nooooo.
kesmarn : Sunbeam makes them, CL. Only about $40 and I can turn the thermostat down in the evening when I snuggle under this plushy thing and read. Cozy!
choicelady : kes – I’m not familiar with those, but I think I’ll track one of the throws down. I’m pretty sure our cat would treat it as yours does: Mom.
glenn : So…come on, folks. CBO says Obamacare means 2.5 million folks will lose their jobs, right?
choicelady : Adlib -NO it does NOT matter which is my point, too – none of us was very cool then, so what you do at 16 should have NO bearing on what you do as an adult. Unless you’re a habitual serial killer or something.
kesmarn : I bought one of those heated plush throws and it has been a godsend this winter — for me and the kitty (who thinks it is “mom”).
AdLib : BRB, take about 10 minutes!
choicelady : KT – I hope that for you, too. But all the years I lived in Buffalo, I lost power only once and that was when some bozo hit a utility pole.
AdLib : CL – But does it matter? Glad that the media appears to agree with that.
choicelady : kes – that’s the ‘polar vortex’ for you – take the cold out of Siberia. Dump it on Ohio.
KillgoreTrout : CL, no, not really. Just hoping we don’t lose power.
choicelady : glenn – what a lovely thing to hear about both of them. THAT is a happy thing to read!
kesmarn : Oh, friends! It is like Siberia here — only not as warm.
glenn : CL–thanks, she is my pride and joy, just as her mother was and still is!
KillgoreTrout : Good for her glenn. Hey Homie! Tired of this winter yet?
choicelady : Hi kes! How is the weather there? KT is still in the deep freeze.
glenn : Hi Kes–thanks
choicelady : KT – do you have any ‘off the grid’ warming source (fireplace or wood stove)? I’m a great believer in backup.
kesmarn : Congrats to the granddaughter, glenn! She has the genes for high achievement!
KillgoreTrout : I was a long haired radical in high school. I’m sure there was plenty said about me.
glenn : KT–Glad to hear you’re warm.
choicelady : glenn – Congratulations to your granddaughter!!! That’s marvelous!
glenn : All–okay, I have to brag a little. My granddaughter made all A’s on her progress report today!
KillgoreTrout : I bet you are CL. glenn, yeah, I’m pretty cozy here in my little abode.
choicelady : AdLib – there’s so much crap people could dump on any of us from HS. It was NOT the best moment of our lives.
AdLib : Hey CL and glenn!
glenn : KT–Hope you’re staying warm.
choicelady : KT – sorry to hear that. We ARE happy for the rain at last!
choicelady : glenn – gosh. we’re close to even on temps then. Glad things are better!
KillgoreTrout : Hey CL and glenn. Old man Winter is still kicking our butts here in Ohio.
glenn : Hey CL–Nope, no snow this week. Actually had a “warming trend”–made it up to 45 degrees this week.
AdLib : Been thinking about all the stuff that could be dredged up against me from high school.
choicelady : AdLib – any rain down there? We’re getting a LOT, glory be!
glenn : Good evening, Ad and KT–Chris Christie stars in high school farcical! What a moron!
choicelady : Hi everyone – hope you’re well. KT – you thawed yet? Glenn I hope you’re not snowed in AGAIN?
KillgoreTrout : Chilling and chilled!
AdLib : Hey KT! Just like everyone else in the US, chilling’. You?
KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad. Que pasa?
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “Chris Christie stars in High School Farcical!” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!