• AdLib : And there is also a zen to venting over the lunatics grabbing for the reigns of the nation. Sounds good!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad I agree….I am going to send you a note in a bit BUT I really enjoyed this tonight. Listening can be quite relaxing.

  • AdLib : Well Murph, looks like it’s about that time to close up the Vox Pop bar for the night. Another great chat tonight and props on the trilogy of posts this week, they really were timely and hit all the bases.

  • AdLib : CL – Very glad to hear that things are getting better for you and Hubby! Try to reduce the stress this weekend and rest up! We need you healthy and ready to go!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : WHAT A GREAT DISCUSSION….go od night Choice, enlightening.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I am still here watching and learning…

  • choicelady : Folks – I need to retreat and get sleep. Life here has been hard for all the health reasons I’ve mentioned before – mine and my husband’s. Things are getting better, but the stress levels are through the roof, and I’m fading. Love to all – have a GREAT weekend!

  • AdLib : CL – I did hear the same story though on MSNBC and elsewhere, that radio and web ads had been put up by Heritage against Repub Senators who weren’t toeing their line. That has been happening.

  • choicelady : AdLib – we all will be watching indeed! If they do pull the Orange Man into their web, THAT will kill him off. But it will also kill off their future as a party. Sometimes even the worst things can become hopeful for those of us who care about democracy.

  • AdLib : CL – That’s true, we’ll know on Monday night…and I bet we don’t know any sooner! The Baggers aren’t going to fold on this without taking it down to the wire…if they fold before Tuesday, that is.

  • choicelady : AdLib – only those of us wonkies actually READ The Hill, so the ads hardly matter! NEVER, by the way, underestimate the power of the independents who are well and truly sick of the GOP Baggers!

  • AdLib : CL – I’m not a fan of The Hill either but the ads are posted in the article so on that count, they appear to be correct.

  • choicelady : AdLib and Murph – the best part of this discussion is that we will find out before NEXT week what actually happens! We rarely get that clarity so soon!

  • AdLib : CL – I appreciate what you’re saying but with the rise of the Baggers, who completely conflict with all the establishment entities you describe, I would argue that the proof is in the pudding. If all those folks had the true power in the GOP, why are we so close to seeing the government shutdown?

  • choicelady : AdLib – my joy is that The Hill is almost ALWAYS wrong!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and choice…..great discussion.

  • choicelady : Murph – it’s not that Ohio does not have its Baggers, but it is that the pro-business folks are even stronger in OH. Every state is different. We need to keep the focus.

  • AdLib : Here’s an article NPR linked to in that article at The Hill which describes how they have already been targeting Repub Senators who aren’t opposing the ACA as hard as Heritage wants: «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL I need to study up Ohio.

  • choicelady : AdLib and Murph – once you go to a think thank, you have immediately got less power. Even with this scenario, there is power and influence on K Street and Wall Street even stronger. I think the extremists in the business circles do not support Cruz and won’t get rid of Boehner. They KNOW where their interests lie, and it’s not extremists.

  • AdLib : CL – The title of the article is, “Outside The Senate, DeMint Appears More Powerful Than Ever”.

  • AdLib : CL – DeMint and Heritage are arm in arm with Cruz on the shutdown and anti-Boehner. They would back a challenger to Boehner if he turned on them. Have read lately that DeMint has become very powerful using that very tool, primarying Repubs who don’t toe the Bagger line. Check out this NPR article: «link»

  • choicelady : AdLib – DeMint’s move to Heritage actually costs him. Yea, the Kochs have influence, but they LOST in many elections they supported, and they are NOT all powerful. Never underestimate the power of the business class. They have even MORE money.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL The challenger will be handpicked and imported if need be.

  • AdLib : CL – Jim DeMint is absolutely one of those “rogues”, the Baggers are his kind of people and he runs Heritage now.

  • choicelady : Murph – MO is a weirdly deviant state. Ohio is more predictable. I think we cannot reason from MO to OH or any other Red/Blue state easily. I’m sorry though that you are stuck there however much you love it. It is NOT the norm.

  • AdLib : CL – But a challenger to Boehner wouldn’t come from the GOP establishment like Rove. It would come backed by the SuperPACS Baggers have been setting up, from fellow outraged Baggers and Koch Bros. money.

  • choicelady : Murph – I’m not so sure that Heritage et al. would back an unknown against the sure thing of Boehner. He’s in the bag with them. Baggers per se are rogues and uncontrollable.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AD AND CHOICE…I do hope that your vision of GOP Zombie Apocalypse is prophetic and not just wishful thinking. I have been overwhelmed at the ongoing tsunamis of stupid among their followers in my state.

  • choicelady : AdLib – my “Ohio intelligence” says there are certainly Baggters. The “well financed” are not so thick upon the Ohio ground. Even Karl Rove is against a shutdown. I want to find him and say, “Dr. Frankenstein? Meet your Monster.” I do not see it in Boehner’s district. A challenger of course. A SUCCESSFUL challenger? Not so likely given Rove’s disgust with the Baggers he created.

  • AdLib : CL – Actually, now would be a great time for Homeland Security to roll out their Zombie Apocalypse program, we’re right on the brink of it! “Brains…”

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….the national TP organizations and their billionaire backers mixed in with the huge data bases held by Heritage, Enterprise, and NRA can take him on as a symbol of the RHINO MASCOT.

  • AdLib : CL – But the Baggers have no loyalty to Wall Street, they have the Kochs paying their way and don’t need other billionaires. Now, if the Kochs sat them down and told them to end the threat of a shutdown, that might stop them.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Homeland Security, as a JOKE, did a training on the “Zombie Apocalypse” as a training. Maybe it wasn’t so far fetched after all?

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s what I’m thinking. If Boehner was to buck the Baggers and get a deal passed despite them, I could definitely imagine a well financed Bagger popping up in OH to challenge Boehner in a primary.

  • choicelady : AdLib and Murph – if we get a shutdown – and the late SS and Medicare checks – it will be to the good. I would not wish it on friends who live on SS alone, but… The over 50 voters will have to finally pay attention.

  • AdLib : Murph – As this all comes to a head, I do expect the Republican snake to keep devouring itself. They are turning on each other like zombies who just got bit by other zombies. They have already destroyed whatever passed for integrity in the GOP, now comes the destruction of unity and trust. The end result won’t be a vibrant, growing GOP, it will be the hastening of their descent into being a minority party…kind of ironic actually considering how they feel about minorities.

  • choicelady : Murph – in Ohio? I don’t think it’s the same. Sorry kes left. She could put us wise.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I know the establishment GOP are out, but it’s the PARTY folks who matter, and the more conventional ones run things behind the scenes with Wall Street and the money guys HORRIFIED at a shut down that would decimate their incomes via a lowered US credit rating etc.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Ad- The TP is very capable of creating a challenger and given the ads here to impeach Boehner I think it is very possible.

  • choicelady : Murph – THAT is creepy. Akins was a VICTIM???? Your state (my heritage) really sucks.

  • AdLib : CL – I would argue that establishment Repubs have lost control of the GOP, the Baggers are calling the shots now so Cruz doesn’t need the establishment. They may condemn him but he has the activist core of the GOP behind him, he doesn’t need John McCain’s endorsement to win with them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…there are three TP organizations in Mo. All three are now equating Roy Blunt with RHINOs – Blunt….so hard to believe. There are cries that Akin was robbed…..and they are gathering traction.

  • choicelady : AdLib – there is no clear ‘primary’ challenger for Beohner. I seriously don’t think that is his worry.

  • AdLib : CL – have to disagree with you on that, Boehner is a top target for Baggers to primary if her doesn’t go along with their demands. Look, they’re primarying McConnell, the leader in the Senate, Boehner is well aware of that. He’s next if he doesn’t toe their line and he’s so self-serving, it’s hard to imagine him doing otherwise…but he may.

  • choicelady : Murph – I think those “opinion leaders” have been gutted as well. I think the GOP have realized within the unseen leadership that extremism is not working with independent voters they DESPERATELY need.

  • AdLib : Murph – I surely see Cruz as a man lusting for power but he doesn’t seem anywhere near as clever as Helms or Thurmond. Cruz is so obvious in his pursuit of instant power in the GOP I think that unlike the two you mentioned, Cruz has created a strong group of adversaries in the GOP who will openly or secretly undermine him. The Baggers won’t have power forever and if Cruz only has them to rely on, he will collapse along with them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- and those leaders are being condemned by Heritage, by TP groups, by Savage, Drudge, Limbaugh, etc. I think it is all part of his plan. He does not intend to be an effective Senator just a very loud one.

  • choicelady : AdLib – sanity is not the issue with the GOP – it is survival.

  • choicelady : Murph – I think the fact the GOP leaders now spoke so powerfully against Cruz marginalizes him no matter the money. He has been cut out of the pack. I don’t think he can get the nomination.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- look at the money he is raking in, watch the right wing pundits, they are looking for a national TP leader and Rand is too much the libertarian for them.