AdLib : Night!
AdLib : Sounds good KT, looking forward to the Music Thread! And the Sunday Funnies, Sally!
AdLib : KT – I’ve come to see that The Constitution doesn’t protect us, only pols and courts that respect it do. If we lose on those fronts, we lose on the Constitution…w hich is why elections really matter. And that reminds me, I was thinking that if Hillary gets elected and serves two terms, it’s pretty likely the SCOTUS would have to change to a moderate majority. That has got to have the Kochs and Repubs freaked out.
KillgoreTrout : Well Ad and Sally I think I’ll call it a night and start the music thread. Have a great weekend.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, our only real defense is the US constitution. If that goes, then the shit will hit the fan for us all.
AdLib : KT – Can you imagine how much it cost to do that? Taxpayer money going to these overkill military attacks on our fellow Americans? We live in worrying times.
AdLib : After seeing how cities used military tactics to eradicate OWS, it should be clear to all that if a mayor or governor gives the order, any violence could be smashed military style by local police.
KillgoreTrout : I bet they felt pretty silly.
AdLib : And police forces keep launching military-style sieges on homes. At HP they mentioned it happened on a farm because they suspected pot was being grown but they only found okra and other veggies.
KillgoreTrout : Yeah, I think any armed insurrection would be put down pretty quickly. These nuts think it’s still the 1700s.
KillgoreTrout : Sally, that’s true. Our police forces are becoming more and more paramilitary.
AdLib : KT – Yep, an AK-47 in the hands of a Bagger vs. a drone missile? I’ll take any bets on that!
KillgoreTrout : Have a good one Murph.
SallyT : Good night, Murph!
AdLib : Sounds great, Murph! Looking forward to it! Get some rest and have a great weekend!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, they would very soon find their little pop guns pretty useless.
AdLib : Murph – Well put, they are indeed. This is the blowback of a cynical political ploy, to pander to the racists and ignorant in the South to counter the Dems and the Golem they created to battle Dems has taken control and turned on them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Good night, KT, Sally and Ad.
MurphTheSurf3 : OH MY…almost quarter past midnight in my little corner of creation….time to nod off….this has been a great discussion tonight…thanks . Ad Lib I will confer with you re. my two proposed articles articles.
AdLib : KT – I agree, the Baggers get off on scaring people with their guns and violent threats but faced with an Apache helicopter, they would scream like little girls and run.
SallyT : The way some of the big cities have their police outfitted, I think they might pee up against them, too.
AdLib : Sally – True, my point is that Iran’s Revolutionary Guards would be even more hostile towards the will of the people. The Egyptian military tolerated democracy, that wouldn’t happen with The Guard in Iran.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, or a ditch they keep digging.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, as Gandhi said, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. And the Irish people realized that.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I increasingly think of the GOP as a party lost in a wilderness of its own making.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I think they would soil themselves if they ever experienced America’s military might. Of course those weirdos always say that many in the military would “defect,” to their side. I highly doubt that would happen.
SallyT : Egypt’s Military hates the MB.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…ah, I thought you had a question. Sorry.
AdLib : Sally – I would doubt it but even if they did, they would be more dictatorial than even Egypt’s military and I couldn’t see them going along with the majority’s will. Word is that the military may actually be the ones really in control in Iran, sort of a power-sharing thing with the Supreme Leader.
SallyT : I know, Murph, that was my point. They wouldn’t.
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sally. I don’t think so.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- the military is built around the Revolutionary Guard which is under the authority of the Supreme Ayatollah and his Council who has to approve the election of the President and all of his major appointments/act ions. I think this an agreed upon message.
AdLib : I wonder, if the GOP was to keep going in the same direction and became a permanent minority party, if some Baggers would ever follow through on their threats and form a political militia insurgency. We’ve seen crazies scattered around the US, if they saw their party couldn’t win power anymore, wonder if they would go the insurgent route? Then again, most seem like cowards feigning bravery and America isn’t really fertile ground for military insurgencies.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad..re. Ireland…IRA action led to aggressive British reaction…and then more IRA action leading to…I think that both Ulster and Eire got tired of the cycle – defanging the IRA was a good way to start.
SallyT : But would the military in Iran go up against their President?
KillgoreTrout : Agreed Murph. SF has been with and even against the IRA at many times in their long history.
AdLib : Murph – Right, exactly why the unseating of the MB from power in Egypt has stunned and silenced Iran. Nothing to brag about now, being part of the MB’s attack on Egypt’s democracy.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- Sinn Fein and the IRA were once joined at the hip but have grown further and further apart for the reasons we have been talking about. SF has emerged as an agent for deep, but peaceful change..especial ly in the emerging (and up and down) economy.
AdLib : Murph – I think that’s what pushed people away from supporting them more than any other one thing, their terrorism and killing of innocent people with no conscience. The British government was brutal and killed and imprisoned many innocent Irish too but the IRA was the one staging terrible bombing attacks on innocents.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, Sinn Fein definitely has become much more involved with trying to change things in Northern Ireland. Even they frown on bombings. They have often been at odds with the IRA on how to enact change.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib. AND….Iran really is a state sponsor of the MB. It’s failure in Egypt says many things, none good, about Iran.
AdLib : Murph – Iran needs to keep its dirty hands out of view for many reasons, including the horror in Syria and the growing violence in Iraq. They have to be pretty upset to see the popular uprising in Egypt against the MB, they sure don’t want that happening in Iran!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib And the campaign came to involve more and more of the innocent.
AdLib : Murph – Add in the horrific nature of the bombing campaign the IRA conducted as well. You lose support when you take on the evil of those you see to be evil. I always appreciated the plight of the Irish, being dominated and demeaned by the Brits but killing the innocent is wrong no matter who does it.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- the same thing happened in Iran…notice how little the Iranians are saying about all of this. Do you think their new president has real clout and has decided that an association with the MB (which Iran has heavily underwritten) is not good for Iran’s long term prospects.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- The IRA fell on hard times when they lost the endorsement of so many institutions in both Ulster and Éire as their association with those who kept the Troubles alive became clear to so many there and in the U.S. Their association with “other” terrorist groups made their legitimacy an open question.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, once the MB got the power they wanted in a democracy, their first and primary agenda was to un-democratize that democracy and turn the nation into their image. SO, they were given plenty of rope and hung themselves with it. Most Egyptians have their number now so they will always be seen as religious tyrants by a majority there. Just too bad that it all had to happen in such a destructive and tragic way.
KillgoreTrout : Oh, absolutely.
AdLib : KT – This is my point about the MB. No matter what happens, I see them continuing to be an insurgent group in Egypt.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- The MB will likely do as you suggest but I think their betrayal of their promises and the obvious conclusion that they were lying about moderation and dedication to the modern accommodations of faith and society.
AdLib : Murph – I think that’s great and for those conversations that end respectfully, a success. It is the ones where you’re talking to a brick wall that insists on slamming itself into your head that can add a few gray hairs.
KillgoreTrout : The IRA has “calmed,” down considerably in the last decade. I think they are fighting more politically than militarily, but they are far from going away.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I do what few at HP do. I reply to every response. It is rare that I get a reply to that response but when I do we are off to the races…Sometime s it’s a real debate and ends in agreement or in the acceptance that we can disagree without being disagreeable. Other times it ends in acrimony.
AdLib : Murph – Since we’re mentioning the IRA, it does seem like no matter what happens governmentally, the MB will always see Egypt as their country and that their control was wrongly taken from them so they could be an ongoing insurgency like the IRA.
KillgoreTrout : I just hope America stays out of the conflicts in Egypt, as much as is rightly possible. It’s not really our fight.
AdLib : Murph – I don’t like kneejerk folks on the Left any more than those on the Right. That is part of the siege mentality at HP though, people immediately push back on any opinion that even smells like it’s coming from the other side. Your point is of course historically backed as KT points out and is not a leap to imagine with the MB…except for the kneejerk types.
KillgoreTrout : Yeah, it’s an effective strategy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I think the real numbers behind the MB are showing up- and they are far less than was presumed. Egypt is very diverse and secular. I think they are going to have to ban the party and then ratify those parties that reflect the character of an emerging state. This is so tricky.
AdLib : KT – That tells the story about insurgent movements and how they infect as much as they can to get financial and strategic support. MB is no different.
AdLib : What do you think is going to happen in Egypt? A long civil war? Will the military assume power permanently? Will a democracy survive?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- I wrote a piece about this at HP and was soundly thumped from those from the Left who said I was a Conservative Shill and Front.
KillgoreTrout : I can attest to the long tentacles of the IRA, having lived in Boston for a number of years. They also had influence in many pubs in and around Boston.
AdLib : Murph – It is fascinating to hear that confirmed, it is the kind of viral practice I would have assumed. Like a cancer, really.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- that is my take on this as well. Per my friend the MB has reached into a number of U.S. Mosques just as the IRA did in many Catholic Churches and Irish Benevolent Societies like the Hibernians…..
AdLib : Murph – Very interesting about his take on MB and his concern about them. It is quite warranted. Their being thrown out of power in Egypt was caused by their drive to dominate. If they had accepted the right to co-exist of other Egyptians, none of this madness in Egypt would be happening now. It gave the Mubarak military the excuse to seize power, without the excuse, they wouldn’t have been able to.
KillgoreTrout : Thanks Murph, I look forward to it.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- There are a number of good articles about the MB. I am going to try to put something together for the Planet.
AdLib : Night Sabreen! Take care and have a great weekend!
KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend Sabreen.
AdLib : Very glad that de Blasio is surging in the NYC mayoral race. He is the only Progressive and I have to say, Christine Quinn looks like such a fraud, suddenly coming out and criticizing SAF after being such a staunch supporter of it and Bloomie. She is a total fraud and that’s why she can’t break out despite being the most publicized of the bunch…aside from Weiner of course!
MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Sabreen.
Sabreen60 : Well good folks, I think I’ll call it a night. Take care until the next time.
KillgoreTrout : I don’t quite get what the MB is about. Admittedly I know little about them.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- He is also worried about the reach of the brotherhood and the influence of the extremists….I know this to be so…
AdLib : Murph – I think it’s very encouraging that he’s called you back so soon and wanted to discuss MB. Would be very interested to learn his perspective.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Sabreen…on the same page with you.
AdLib : Murph – And it’s such BS, the crime rate in NY AND the entire US has gone down markedly since 20 years ago, before Bloomie was ever governor. Why has crime gone down in cities that don’t have SAF? It is so Republican of Bloomie to try and claim he and his unconstitutional actions have protected people, isn’t that the whole Bush Admin story?
Sabreen60 : Murph, I don’t have the statistics in front of me, but the fact is crime began falling in 1990. I believe I read it had fallen 74% BEFORE stop and frisk was implemented to the fullest. Since stop and frisk, crime has decreased by 12%. Bloomberg is a liar who is trying to protect his legacy.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, it’s their attitude of exceptionalism. Texans have always had a superior attitude and great pride in the Texas way. Whatever that is.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Yep…Vanished. You are M-A-G-I-C!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad-thanks…his calling tells me a lot about the MB does it not?
AdLib : Murph – Refresh this page then you can look back to see the comment is gone.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- at the Bloomberg press conference he said that under the Stop and Frisk law NYC had been made safe so that people no longer had to walk warily, keep an eye on alleys, look over their shoulders….a report from the Village Voice said rather loudly- UNLESS YOU ARE YOUNG, BLACK AND MALE.
AdLib : Murph – The comment about him is gone!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen I guess you heard about NYC’s “stop and frisk,” policy was deemed unconstitutional ? Yet they say the policy will continue. I don’t get that!
AdLib : Murph – Yep, will delete that comment right now. BRB!
AdLib : Hate to say this but if all the TX Repubs in Congress fell through a rift in space and disappeared, the lunacy factor in Congress would be reduced immensely. What is it about TX that makes for so many wackos in the Right?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- my long call was from my Muslim friend. He asked me to figure out how to write my story without citing him. Can you go back to my comment here where I gave info about him and delete it? Can that be done?
Sabreen60 : Murph, My question is whose freedom, liberty and security? If my son can’t walk out his house without the very real possibility of being frisked, just how free is he?
AdLib : Night Patsy! Have a great weekend!
AdLib : Sabreen – That Repub Congress slime is another TX yahoo named Steve Stockman, he’s as loony a Bagger as they come. And of course the Repubs won’t criticize, it took Steve King calling all young immigrants drug mules with cantaloupe calves to get a peep out of them. As for Bloomberg, he was a Repub and only changed his party affiliation to win re-election. He is an elitist and a racist, always has been.
KillgoreTrout : Sleep well Patsy and CL.
Sabreen60 : Nite Patsy!
SallyT : Nite nite to you, too Patsy!
MurphTheSurf3 : Patsy- hardly got to say hello and then you have to go. Oh NO!
PatsyT : Guys I must say goodnight, great to see you all and take care, nighty night
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- What would have been totally, absolutely unacceptable just a few years ago is now defended in the name of Liberty, Freedom, Security, Necessity….
Sabreen60 : Good night CL and take care of yourself!
KillgoreTrout : CL, I think it’s a good idea as well. But I have to ask, faith in what?
Sabreen60 : Murph, AdLib, I expect Beck and those of his ilk to show solidarity with the Rodeo Clown. What get’s me is the Congress critter who was positive about the clown. The Repub elected officials stay silent when it comes to racism. Just as the so-called civil libertarians are silent about stop and frisk and now Bloomberg wanting to have citizens on public assistance fingerprinted.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk: Klassy, Klassy, Klassy
KillgoreTrout : I see religion as being neither right or left. That’s my problem with such terms. There is confrontation and strife. To me, that is antithetical to spirituality.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk:
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- since you said you would only be with us for a short while two hours ago…I would say you have more than fulfilled your commitment. Good luck in Obamacare Land.
SallyT : Murph, lets say I put a lot of miles between us!
PatsyT : Nighty Night to you CL!
KillgoreTrout : OK, I’ll have to take your word on that. I only know what I see and hear. The term Religious Left makes me skiddish.
AdLib : CL – You are doing such wonderful works! Thank you! Have a smooth trip and a good day!
choicelady : Murph – I meant the rain, but I remember your telling us about the shirt. Good on you for standing up against that kid wearing it!
funksands : Night Choice.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- you have risen far from your beginnings!
funksands : Murph, that’s Klassy.
choicelady : OK everyone – I have to be up at 4:30 to get ready to drive to San Jose – about a 2 1/2 hour or more drive. I’m doing a breakfast gathering to help people get ready to enroll in health care. Gotta get some sleep for this incredibly boring drive… Be well everyone. Hope to see you next week with a better computer!
SallyT : Murph, they are from my high school that had about 10 people of color in attendance.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- yes. I saw the shirt in my local grocer. On the front a questions: What does the Zimmerman verdict mean. On the back the answer: Coon Hunting Season All Year Round.
AdLib : CL – Maybe the GOP logo shold be changed from an elephant to a rodeo clown?
choicelady : AdLib – PERFECT slogan!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- who would those classmates be…from neanderthal U.?
PatsyT : Can we have the Bull go after G Beck?
AdLib : “THE GOP – The Rodeo Clown Party!”
choicelady : Murph – that’s downright scary.
choicelady : Sally – that’s GREAT! Or THROW the bull. Whatever works.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the rain band is another example of something amiss in the regular weather patterns. Areas where there is dense and long rains immediately adjacent to dry zones day after day.
choicelady : KT – growing numbers of people are expanding their faith but rejecting formal religion. We think that’s a good thing.
SallyT : Murph, I got lots of classmates from back home sending petitions to save the clown. I said no but I will sign a petition to save the bull!
funksands : Murph, that means you’re one up on me….
AdLib : Sabreen – Did you see, Glenn Beck declared solidarity and said, “I too am a rodeo clown!” Finally he gets it!
MurphTheSurf3 : funk….I think I am learning to think in funkese
KillgoreTrout : I use the word faith in reference to the different religions in the world, such as the Christian faith, the Jewish faith…etc. I think we all have faith in something or another (nihilists excluded ).
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- THAT GODAWFUL CLOWN. Something else to make Mo. proud (along with the “Coon Hunting Shirt” after the Zimmerman verdict.
choicelady : Murph – I’m glad you were not harmed, but what a weird thing to NEED rain when they were inundated. Hope you get some soon – but not too much!
funksands : Murph, glad your universal translator is working. Or is that your babel fish?
choicelady : KT – we are the MAINSTREAM. You just would not know since we can hardly be heard in any media right now. But we are. And we are equal in number to the Religious Right and are starting to speak out aggressively. We are tired of people like you not knowing what we think, do, care about. So keep watching – we are silent no more.
AdLib : Sally – I have to agree, he was one of those “It’s Pat” people, so angry and tough but tweeting in a high, thin voice. Quite a dichotomy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Choice….the flooding was 40 miles south and west. We actually need rain here.
Sabreen60 : Adlib, Yeah I saw him. I think he’s been getting some bad meds. Talk about crazy. Of course, I know you’ve seen the Rodeo Clown.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk. I was able to translate RWNJ instantly…gett ing to know your language…..
KillgoreTrout : CL, I think that is not quite true. I think you and your companions, friends fellow worshipers are somewhat of a rarity. Almost every time religion is brought up in a discussion, morality is becomes a key part of the discussion. I respect your views, but I also think that not all persons of faith are as open minded about it. These are the people I refer to.
choicelady : MURPH! Hi – how are you? Were you caught in the horrible flooding?
PatsyT : Funk, oxygen tank? Did it make them stop breathing, if so maybe that a good thing?
choicelady : ADLib – the Christian Left prays for a power outage!!!
funksands : I am related by marriage to a horde of RWNJ’s if you remember….
MurphTheSurf3 : I AM BACK…LONG CALL.
choicelady : Yeah funk – who has tossed the O2 bottles at you recently?
AdLib : CL and Sabreen – Looking forward to the headline, “GOP Rally Ends Abruptly Due to Batteries Running Down in Hoverounds”.
SallyT : AdLib, that guy to me looked like he/she was at midterm in his/her sex change. Not that I am against sex changes…..
Sabreen60 : Funk, I would ask you how do you know? Have you had to duck recently?
choicelady : funk – not really. It’s very complex, and the Enlightenment principles can really work against us with the emphasis on individualism and personal gain. We are quite careful to wade through all ideas to find where they serve the best qualities of life and equality.
AdLib : Sabreen – Did you see that pot-bellied, high-pitched older white guy in that Repub town hall railing against Obama as a communist Kenyan who needed to be impeached? That’s what we’re up against. Little brains but plenty of anger. We’re angry but we’ve got the smarts too, we can beat them.
funksands : Sabreen, having an oxygen tank thrown at you is no picnic.
choicelady : AdLib – bingo. That’s what the “Christian Left” believes, too! NO such thing as exclusive morality or exclusionary actions.
funksands : I think much of what I see from the “Christian Left” borrows more from the Principles of Enlightenment than from the New Testament. IMO
choicelady : Sabreen – LOL!!! Look out! They’re coming!!! Hide the chargers!!!
choicelady : KT – in fact, while I work with people of faith, I belong to NO church. None. I think faith is about universal principles, not Christianity per se. God to me is the life force among us all pushing us toward greater good.
AdLib : KT – I think that MLK and others such as Gandhi promote universal philosophies of love, respect and equality and in them, it grew from their religion. But those seeds can be planted in and grow from other fertile soil.
Sabreen60 : CL, Based on what I’ve seen a lot of the baggers are as old or older than I. A few maybe be able to “handle” themselves, but it’s pretty hard to do from a hoveround.
choicelady : KT – read what I just wrote. It doesn’t.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I know you are serious about your faith and you are not just a blind follower. I respect that. I just get a little frustrated with the idea that morality can only exist, because of one’s faith.
choicelady : KT – morality does NOT have to be from faith. It just IS from many of us who work arm in arm with atheists and agnostics and secular humanists with the same morality. NO one says it has to be grounded in faith.
PatsyT : Funk, yes lets hope OFA will help.
AdLib : 2014 will be a unique off year election, it comes after the Repubs have retrenched into a crazier hard RW position, with so much of the voter base being attacked by them, women, minorities, students, etc. People are pissed off in the middle and on the Left, that was absolutely not the case in 2010, just the opposite (and even though there was apathy in 2010, the Dem turnout wasn’t that bad).
choicelady : funk – and to quote a wonderful Lesbian friend who should know, “don’t bring a knife to a gun fight.” We are up against really dangerous people, both in terms of their ideology AND their willingness to do harm to the rest of us, ideologically and physically. We have to stand up to that in every way.
choicelady : Sabreen – that is sort of my point: MLK came FROM his faith and did not impose it. He used a lot of Biblical imagery (“I’ve been to the mountaintop…” ) but spoke always to the issues of secular society. That is what progressive people of faith do. Oh – and many of us understand the need of guns, after all, we’re being stalked by the white supremacists and religious right. NOT PACIFISTS, sorry.
KillgoreTrout : My question is why does morality have to be faith based? I think King was aking the white establishment to act morally, according to the constitution, no doubt. Morality is not depended upon any certain faith. We should do what’s right because it is right, no matter how we arrive at knowing what is right or what is not right.
funksands : Patsy, I’m really interested to see what OFA is going to do. That could be a difference-maker .
funksands : CL, not only is it not a spectator sport, its a knife fight in a dark alley to the death. Whether people know it or not.
AdLib : Last week on Vox, Murph and I were discussing the 2014 Senate races and going through them, I don’t think it is likely for Reubs to win back control. Some Dems considered vulnerable like Begich in AK and Landrieu in LA are strengthening up and some will face loony Bagger challengers. So, though more Dem seats are up than Repub seats, I don’t see an easy path for Repubs to take control. They could but public sentiment would have to be going in their direction and it’s just the opposite.
PatsyT : Getting folks out for the midterms is so important, how can we do a better job of that.
Sabreen60 : MLK was *heard* in different ways. I heard his civil rights message and not his religious message. At the time, I didn’t hear his non-violent message. African Americans are not a monolith. I was good and grown before I appreciated his sane non-violent approach to apartheid. Personally, I belonged to the NRA and was learning how to shoot.
choicelady : funk – democracy can no longer be a spectator sport (never really was) because these are the looniest of the loons.
choicelady : AdLib – even with inequality in redistricting, I’m hearing some indications that lots of Blue people in supposedly Red districts are rising up for the midterms. Let’s hope that’s true!
funksands : CLady/Ad – For sure we’ve got a shot! But holding Montana, North Carolina, South Dakota, Louisiana, Arkansas, West Virginia is going to be a tough road. It can be done with a huge effort. Hopefully people are prepared for that!
choicelady : Sally – I agree with you about turnout. People are steamed and not going to give up!
SallyT : I think there might be a good turn out even though there usually isn’t at mid terms. I think many people are going to fight the voter suppression and see who is trying to stop their vote.
choicelady : KT – religion does not enter the policies. It motivates all of us – not just Christians – to work for upholding Constitutional principles. The RIGHT hate the Constitution and want to replace it with the Bible.
AdLib : Funk – I’d have to disagree with you on that. There’s nothing that a narrow majority of Repubs in the Senate could do even with Repubs controlling the house, aside from more symbolic votes against Obamacare. The Dems can filibuster just as Repubs did and Obama sure isn’t going to sign any crazy Repub bills. On the other hand, I don’t think the Repubs will win the Senate, thanks to Allison Grimes in KY and Nunn in GA running, as well as the public mood souring against Baggers, I think the Dems will hang onto the Senate, even if it’s a 50/50 split with Biden making the difference.
KillgoreTrout : You said it yourself. What do we need beyond the US constitution? Why does faith have to enter into the equation at all? As you well know, not all faiths agree with each other. I take it this religious left means the Christian left?
choicelady : funk – I have heard various people say they think Dems CAN keep the Senate, so let’s keep working on it.
choicelady : KT – that’s the big difference. No theocratic principles for us!!! We think the Constitution rocks.
SallyT : No he wasn’t KT but he was speaking to the mass of followers he had and in a language they would believe in and listen to.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I can agree with that.
choicelady : KT – faith for Rev. King was THE moral push behind every single thing he did. But his focus was on the Constitution as it damned well had to be. THAT is who WE “the religious Left” are as well. Coming from faith to create a morally adherent nation obeying the Constitution.
funksands : CL, the odds are against the Dems keeping the Senate. There will need to be abnormally high turnout to keep it from happening. Not being a downer, but its a reality.
AdLib : Sabreen – That actually is the best example to explain Repub voters. Look at the Repub trolls on HP and elsewhere, how hollow headed they are, just following the marching orders of Rush and Fox News, that’s what they see as being politically minded…having their authority figures’ politics filling up their heads.
KillgoreTrout : He wasn’t fighting for everyone to become Christians.
choicelady : funk!!! Hush your mouth on GOP retaking the Senate!!! Don’t jinx us!
KillgoreTrout : I think it wasn’t faith, with MLK as much as it was civil rights and the plea for equality. Yes MLK was a minister, and therefore saw his fight as god driven, but I don’t think faith was the main issue.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m so glad you got to know him! We all miss him terribly! Won’t see another moral leader of his ilk for a time, I fear.
AdLib : CL – Bob Edgar was a great guy! But you know that better than I!
choicelady : Sabreen – then we all got on the internet and removed ALL doubt about the collective and individual intelligence! LOL!!
funksands : The 2016 GOP nomination will depend on the midterms. If they don’t do well, expect an all-out push for a mainstreamer like Christie. If they do take the Senate back, (which is very possible) then all stops are out for the crazy train.
AdLib : Sabreen – When you factor in the typically worse education of Repubs, the religious entanglement that the GOP is “The Christian Party” and the racism that has a safe home there, you can see how these people are manipulated to vote on the social issues for Repubs while being totally ignorant that they are really voting against their own economic interests. Like all the unemployed Repubs who voted in Repubs in 2010 then wailed when their Unemployment was cut.
choicelady : KT – what do you MEAN separate? No one parks their values at the door, not even atheists.
choicelady : Sabreen – I SO agree with you! Voting for a white guy who hates your guts and wants you a serf to his profit making is simply absurd. But lots of people did it.
Sabreen60 : AdLib, prior to the Internet I actually did think most Americans were reasonable.
KillgoreTrout : CL, could you say that about everyone in the “religious left?” I just think religion should remain separate from government. Left, right or middle.
choicelady : At least two of the best liberals in Congress were clergy – Bob Edgar (late of Common Cause) and Fr. Robert Drinan. They never imposed their faith – they lived it for justice. It is important to understand putting the Constitution FIRST and ONLY in the way one shapes policy.
Sabreen60 : CL, I’m sure that’s a fact. But it’s just hard to grasp the ignorance of someone who votes against their own interest.
KillgoreTrout : Exactly CL. I don’t think liberals would do that, I just see religion, in general, as a dangerous tool in the hands of those who want to manipulate people to coming around to their own political ideology. I think there would be less danger of that on the left, but I would still rather that politicians remain secular in their policy making and legislation.
AdLib : Sabreen – We like to think that most Americans are as reasonable as folks here but we have to recognize that you have tens of millions of people in the South who would vote Republican if Ted Bundy was the candidate. They will robotically vote for the “White People’s Party” candidate. So elections in the foreseeable future will never be 60-40 for Dems or better. The good thing is that the white people who religiously vote Repub are being outnumbered year after year. In fact, Obama beat Romney by a margin bigger than most previous elections (2008 aside). So it was a modern day landslide, 332 electoral votes to 206.
choicelady : Sabreen – too many of Romney’s votes came to him for one reason: he is white.
choicelady : KT – you cannot note Rev. King sitting in the Oval Office with LBJ and say faith is “out of politics”. It is quite a matter of HOW one approaches it – a motive for oneself toward a democracy good, or an absolutist demand, the Constitution be damned.
PatsyT : They are not “faithful” they are fakes and political oppertives
Sabreen60 : AdLib, Yes Dems won the presidency in 2012. But Romney got about 60 million votes. That’s a hell of a lot of votes for a candidate who ran away from the media as much as he did. I haven’t come to a firm conclusion as to why he got 60 million votes. I know I don’t believe all those votes were from people who believe in shrinking the government so small it can be drowned in a bathtub.
choicelady : KT – the whole point of the ‘religious left’ is to agree with you totally. NO religious view can possibly dominate, and NO religious view can trump the Constitution. We are NOT just Jerry Falwell Lite – we diametrically oppose the idea of hegemony of faith over secular society or any belief over another. That is not just the opposite – it is not even in the same planet.
KillgoreTrout : CL, MLK was not a politician. I have no qualms about ordinary expressing their faith’s values and fighting a good fight. I just think religion should be left out of the political arena.
AdLib : So if not Rand Paul, who do you think will win the GOP nod? Will it finally be a Tea Party candidate or will they go along with a less extremist Christie or Jeb Bush again?
choicelady : Patsy – that is partly what we’re about BUT we stand with atheists and Taoists in their right to all belief but NOT imposition of those beliefs upon the Constitution. Which KT would never do. If the Religious Right just stuck to advocating for policies, that’d be one thing. They demand their own way, their exclusive way, or get out of their way!
AdLib : CL – Good point! Now if only Chris would declare I would never become a millionaire!
KillgoreTrout : I think any denomination that has more power over another is a bad thing. If it be Christian, Jewish, Muslim….etc.
choicelady : AdLib – I say Chris should keep up the level of work. He may help good folks win by predicting they will lose.
SallyT : Patsy, that is how I see it, too. Christian Left is there to show that it is okay to believe and you don’t have to go with the radical Republicans!
AdLib : Sabreen – Do you mean the public was asleep in 2010? In 2012, Dems won the Presidency, Senate seats and House seats. With all the attacks on voting rights, women’s rights, Latino’s rights, racial issues…I think the Left will be very mobilized to get these lunatics out in 2014.
choicelady : KT – speaking FROM a faith view on issues of democracy is no different from speaking as League of Women Voters on their values. Demanding your view MUST be the ONLY one to prevail never mind democratic or Constitutional principles – that’s totally unacceptable. Faith people such as MLK came FROM their beliefs to advocate civil rights. No violation of the separation of church and state there. Violating the Constitution to strip people of voting rights because “God said Black people were inferior” (not at all true) IS wrong because it imposes a demand upon democracy.
PatsyT : I am having a hard time seeing Randy Paul go much farther, he voice is so whiney
funksands : Ad, that wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t think he will, but it wouldn’t be shocking. He greatly overestimates his hand.
PatsyT : I think some of the Christian Left are there to challange the “Right” to actually live the words of Christ, unlike what they are doing today, the exact opposite.
AdLib : Chris Matthews, whose predictions have all been wrong over the last number of elections (I remember him pronouncing Obama a losing candidate if unemployment doesn’t drop under 7%), predicts that Rand Paul will win the 2016 nom. What do you think?
funksands : Sabreen, there is zero benefit for a Republican to engage with any media source considered to be adversarial.
Sabreen60 : Funk, Yes he did. But is the public as uninformed and asleep as in 2012? I think just about everybody is at least somewhat aware of the Party of No. Are they going to vote for a candidate who will not address the issues with the lamestream media. I happen to agree the media sucks, but for entirely different reasons than say, a Sarah Palin.
PatsyT : Cool CL
KillgoreTrout : Patsy,I suppose they wouldn’t be as fanatical as the religious right. At least I would hope not. Religion in politics makes me skiddish.
choicelady : Patsy – Nuns on the Bus is run by a colleague of mine. Let’s be clear here – they are great, love them dearly, but you won’t be seeing them out pumping for marriage equality or women’s right to choose. You WILL see me doing that!
AdLib : The GOP is currently constructed as an out-of-power opposition party. They have little appeal as a party to be elected into power. They are…political eunuchs.
KillgoreTrout : That’s just it Ad, I don’t think they have any true moderates.
PatsyT : You remember Nuns on the Bus
PatsyT : I see what you mean KT but its their message that works not the label.
funksands : Sabreen, I think the 2016 GOP candidate will run the entire campaign w/o once talking to the lamestream media. Romney almost pulled it off.
KillgoreTrout : CL, how unfortunately true.
AdLib : KT – Actually, I think the GOP can be a viable party if they went back to being as moderate-control led as they used to be years back. But as their appeal is narrowly at white males with some white females, it’s not sustainable. The dynamics represent extinction as a major party unless or until they change course. They have to cater more and more to the far right nutjobs they’ve incubated to attack and try to undermine the Obama Admin…which makes them unpalatable to the majority of voters.
KillgoreTrout : Isn’t that par for the couse Sabreen?
choicelady : Hey funk!!!
choicelady : KT – it’s a stupid designation, “Christian Left” but is about the only way to have small minded people distinguish between, say, Rev. MLK, Jr. and Pat Robertson. People can’t apparently help thinking in Left-Right distinctions.
Sabreen60 : KT, It seems as though some of those same loons were in the audience when Reince announced the boycott of NBC and CNN. Everyone stood and cheered. No one said “wait a minute – is this a good idea”. Geez.
PatsyT : Hey Funk!
PatsyT : Sorry See if this link works… «link»
funksands : KT, what an excellent question. They exist, so I suppose they must.
KillgoreTrout : I was hoping we could keep that out of our politics.
KillgoreTrout : Must we have a religious left?
funksands : How’s the planet tonight?
SallyT : Runkie!
AdLib : Hey Funk!
KillgoreTrout : Yo funk!
Sabreen60 : Hey funk!
AdLib : Patsy – Thanks for the link. Is Choicelady featured in the article?
KillgoreTrout : Well, they certainly are full of gas.
choicelady : Patsy – I think that’s the wrong link, and please find the right one because I’ve been seeking out that article for WEEKS.
funksands : Hello fellow travelers!
SallyT : It doesn’t, AdLib. And, if they only air it on Fox and have Rush or whomever ask questions, it will be interesting to see who get nominated. Or should I say scary????
AdLib : I mean, there are some non-GOP folks who simply won’t watch anything on Fox anyway. And with a RW moderator and the stampede to the right…and the kind of loons in the audience they had in 2012…the GOP Hindenburg is already for its voyage.
KillgoreTrout : The GOPTP can dress up the language for their party, but they can’t change their core ideals. If they did, they wouldn’t be the GOP any longer. They’d have to become progressive. This is why they’ll never change. They don’t have the intellectual ability to change. They can’t see that the country and the rest of the world is changing beyond their old ideology. Built in failure.
PatsyT : Hey I read a good article today, its from a few weeks ago but still Great – The Rise of the Christian Left in America «link»
choicelady : AdLib – it hurts the GOP, not the Dems. It makes them increasingly cultish and thus totally irrelevant.
AdLib : CL – Exactly. How does the GOP narrowing the audience for their debates hurt the Dems?
SallyT : Night Glenn. Enjoy the game! See you later~
Sabreen60 : Good night glenn!
AdLib : Night glenn! Wishing your little athlete all the best!
choicelady : glenn – glad I FINALLY got on in time to say good night! Have a lovely day tomorrow.
PatsyT : Nighty Night Glen!
choicelady : AdLib – THEM, not YOU! Sorry.
choicelady : AdLib – I totally agree. Please proceed…
glenn : Alright, folks, first game is at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow, and it’s almost 11:30 here. G’night. Hope to see you all over the weekend!
AdLib : The motto in politics is when someone is damaging themselves, just get out of their way, sit back and let them do so. I think the Repubs should be encouraged to go down the path of being a narrow-minded, prejudiced party. As President Obama said to Romney, “Please proceed…”
KillgoreTrout : Gruel! Political gruel.
SallyT : glenn, they are probably saying that now but they are.
choicelady : Everyone – because of the narrowing of the religious right, their ‘circling the wagons’ to ward off marriage equality and everything else more modern than the Stone Age, I see this as a logical step to their total insularity. They’re going to be as meaningful to America as are any cult that lives underground wearing tinfoil hats.
PatsyT : Sabreen, I think he knows but is counting on the ignorance of his audience
glenn : KT–The baggers have to be spoon fed the whipped-up concoctions!
KillgoreTrout : Sad isn’t it?What’s really sad is, many can not. The baggers have to be spoon fed.
Sabreen60 : Patsy, Yes, but Reince is not differentiating between NBC Entertainment and NBC News.
glenn : Sabreen–rancid has already answered that question. He asked Candy Crowley–“Shoul d we boycott the catering trucks, too? I’m talking about the corporations who air the programs, not the workers”, or something like that. And, I saw briefly today that Fox says they are not producing a Hillary doc.
SallyT : Still Fox Networks.
choicelady : AdLIb – well, you are definitely onto something about the majors revealing the idiocy of the GOP “debates”. But wouldn’t it be better on the Cartoon Network…?
AdLib : glenn – So true, they are expanding the GOP that way!
PatsyT : Fox Entertainment is doing it not Fox News
choicelady : KT – Yes. The networks believe you cannot tell that for yourself.
AdLib : Sally – And imagine all the free publicity the NBC and CNN films have already gotten! They would be crazy not to make them and rake in lots of viewers and box office.
KillgoreTrout : I love it when the networks feel the need to tell us who won a debate. Do they really think we can’t determine that for ourselves?
Sabreen60 : Isn’t FOX suppose to produce one of the specials? Reince doesn’t want to boycott FOX.
choicelady : Sally – FOX is producing one of the Clinton flicks????? I think my head just blew up…
glenn : Ad–The party of censorship, the party of racism, the party of misogny (sp.), the party of no. I really “like” the way they’re expanding their party and their message.
PatsyT : Great to see you CL!
choicelady : Hi Patsy!
AdLib : CL and Sally – I look at it the other way, MSNBC and CNN should broadcast all of the most terrible things they say in a RW skewed debate and tear them to pieces.
PatsyT : Just ignore that debates all around
choicelady : AdLib – I have been appalled at PBS and NPR for their right leaning interpretations of things. Only Downtown Abbey works for me anymore.
SallyT : Right, glenn, so I wouldn’t even air anything about them. But, the GOP isn’t going to turn down the money from CNN and NBC to have the rights to air. And, Fox is producing one of the Hillary movies so I don’t know how they will get around that.
AdLib : Patsy – Yes, I think that could have been an inspiration since PBS folded. They are now The Party of Censorship and will proceed that way.
choicelady : glenn – but MSNBC and CNN can do whatever they want if the other candidates agree. The GOP can pull out. That doesn’t make it not happen.
choicelady : Sally – I think you just nailed it. Hold an honorable debate. They do their on ONLY FOX, and no one reports the debate results outside of FOX. Excellent.
glenn : Sally–Isn’t the issue not allowing CNN and MSNBC to televise the debates?–not just reporting on them.
PatsyT : Do you think Prince Rebus got this bright idea to push the networks to pull the Hiliary doc from the PBS BS with the Koch bros?«link» anthropy.com/blo gs/philanthropyt oday/donors-back -koch-documentar y-after-pbs-arm- pulls-financial- support/73159
KillgoreTrout : They would be a hit with the Goth crowd!
AdLib : glenn – I don’t know, if they don’t make the films, they’ll come up with a sneaky excuse like, rescheduling for a later date or trouble with getting the script they want, etc. My feeling is that if they caved in now, so early, 3 years before the election and before any film has even been written, they will be in really bad shape come election time and be seen as cowardly and untrustworthy by the public.
choicelady : KT – LOL!!! Think there’s a market for those?
choicelady : glenn – I agree. No downside there!
SallyT : If I were CNN and NBC, I wouldn’t report on their debates. If they won’t let them be there, why report on it.
KillgoreTrout : I love it. Vamputer! Or Lapvamp!
choicelady : Sabreen – Yes, Rush knows his own self interest, doesn’t he?
glenn : CL–It’s a good thing that the r/tp becomes even more of a laughing stock, so I really don’t see the downside for the rest of the country.
Sabreen60 : Rush – Do you think oxycontin should be legal and sold as an OTC drug?
choicelady : KT! That’s so funny! Mine is becoming a vampire – comes out only at night.
choicelady : glenn – it will be interesting to watch who caves, who does not.
KillgoreTrout : I’ve been thinking about a new laptop lately. The one I have is starting to self realize.
choicelady : AdLib – I cannot see how the Repubs can hold out for “Fox only” debate moderation. They’d become a laughingstock with moderate independents.
glenn : Ad–I think the other question is, will CNN cave in to rancid penis’ demands and not air the Clinton documentary. I don’t think MSNBC will cave, although I could be wrong.
AdLib : CL – Don’t forget to back everything up to load on the new computer before you use the old computer for target practice.
choicelady : Hi AdLib – sorry things are so creaky on the internet front. New computer SOON.
AdLib : CL – Good for you!
choicelady : Hi KT adn Sally – GREAT to see you!
PatsyT : Hey CL!
AdLib : Do you think that the Repubs will follow through with narrowcasting at Fox News only? Doesn’t it sound like a hollow threat, how could they appeal to the public at large by swerving far to the right in RW debates and shunning the rest of the nation? I’m all for it though, it would be disastrous.
KillgoreTrout : Good to “see,” you CL!
choicelady : Hi glenn – for the moment. We decided we are going computer shopping Sunday. This old clunk is just totally unreliable.
SallyT : hello CL!
KillgoreTrout : Rush: How many of you has god told to run?
glenn : CL–glad to see you could make it.
choicelady : Hi-FINALLY made it on. Good to see everyone. Don’t know how long my computer will hold out. Hope everyone is well though.
PatsyT : I think we could play the rush game all night …
glenn : Sabreen–please join us.
AdLib : Sabreen – Yep, questions Rush would ask at GOP debates.
Sabreen60 : I come back and you guys are playing the “Rush” game!?!
AdLib : Patsy – That’s where I was going with that!
PatsyT : LOL Fat Tax indeed!
glenn : Rush–“Let’s give the poor guns and let them shoot their food from a helicopter like that other famous patriot, Ted Nugent.”
AdLib : Patsy – Or maybe Rush: “How soon until we get rid of the fat tax?”
PatsyT : … Hunger Games…
PatsyT : Rush: How soon until we get the flat tax?
KillgoreTrout : Rush: How come Ted Nugent isn’t a candidate on stage tonight?
AdLib : Rush: “Instead of food stamps, shouldn’t we make the hungry fight in some kind of games for food? What should we call it?”
glenn : All–I keep forgetting to put “Rush” in front of my questions–that really is not me asking.
KillgoreTrout : Rush: Why shouldn’t we have a machine gun in every classroom?
glenn : Ad–“When are women going to stop playing the victim for being raped?”
AdLib : Rush: “Do we really have to let blacks and women vote?”
glenn : Ad–and don’t forget making them feel uncomfortable when taking showers at the YMCA.
KillgoreTrout : Rush: If sluts can get free birth control, why can’t fat old slobs get Viagra?
AdLib : Rush: “Isn’t it time we stopped those in the Grievance Industry from making real Americans feel uncomfortable in their white sheets and pointed hoods?”
AdLib : Rush: “Should the poor be fracked into natural gas?”
PatsyT : gotta take a call b r b
SallyT : Rush, “By the way, anyone here got a Vicodin?”
glenn : Ad–“Why should immigrants be given “amnesty?” Those people on food stamps should be picking their own food.”
AdLib : Rush: “Why legalize marijuana until we legalize black market Oxycontin?”
SallyT : Rush, “Don’t you all agree that I am one smart man? And, very popular and famous!”
AdLib : glenn – You bet we’ll be hearing about repealing Obamacare and welfare queens and immigrants with cantaloupe calves.
PatsyT : Why “aren’t” opps
glenn : Ad–“Should we let sluts have access to birth control?”
PatsyT : Oh Yes AdLib I can see it now , Rush: Why are blacks grateful for being brought to this country as unpaid interns?
Sabreen60 : BBL.
SallyT : Fox is producing one of the Hillary movies.
AdLib : Patsy – We should list some question that Rush would ask as moderator. “Are black people born criminals or are they just quick learners at be criminals?”
glenn : Ad–I know–just talk to the echo chamber. What happens when the candidate actually has to speak to rest of the citizens of the US? Will we still be hearing about repealing Obamacare? BTW, I hope the ACA is forever known as that–because once it is fully enacted, people will love it, and the r/tps will have to eat their words!
Sabreen60 : The Hillary documentary nor the special has been written. The RNC and no one else knows whether they will be positive or negative. Hillary has a lot of baggage. But the RNC is shooting their on foot. I am delighted.
KillgoreTrout : Great point Ad.
KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend AB.
PatsyT : Rush Limbat as mod?? Jeeezz they really do want to go out in a big way.
AdLib : Night AB! And keep prosecuting Perry!
glenn : G’night AB. Have a great weekend.
SallyT : Night to you, AB!
AdLib : I think the RNC insisting on Repub purists moderating and only being on Fox News is the perfect game plan to blow up what’s left of the GOP. Brilliant, narrow your primary just to the faithful and push them even farther over to the extremist side!
Sabreen60 : Nite AB!
KillgoreTrout : That’s good glenn. I wouldn’t want that fat turd moderating in the first place. He doesn’t have the ability to moderate fairly.
glenn : G’night Kes. Sleep well.
glenn : Sabreen–The RNC has voted in favor of censorship–can ‘t wait to see how this plays out. They really are scared of Clinton, aren’t they?
SallyT : Good Night KES!
AlphaBitch : Night to all. Keep it up. Murph- Blov, Pup and Pup’s new galpal and I are going to see the Butler tomorrow. can’t wait! Thanks for the mini-review.
Sabreen60 : Nite Kes, take care!
SallyT : Sabreen, when CNN and NBC offer to pay to show the debates, the GOP will go for the money any day!
glenn : Sabreen–Limpbal ls says he’s not going to moderate a debate. He’s too “famous” for that, and all the focus would be on him, and not the debaters. Kid you not, that’s what limpball says, anyway.
KillgoreTrout : Sleep well kes. How much can foam remember?
AdLib : Rest well Kes! Have a great weekend!
AlphaBitch : Right behind you kes. The boys just got home. Have to see how the driving range went…
PatsyT : Sweet dreams Kes! Nighty Night!
AlphaBitch : I know glenn. Laughed myself silly.
kesmarn : Well, kids, it’s been a long one. (Mercy meeting earlier) So I’m gonna have to hit the memory-foam pillow. Have a wonderful weekend, all.
glenn : AB–I read about your gov’s legal troubles. It’s so sad– NOT!
AlphaBitch : No shit, Sally
SallyT : Couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy, Alpha!
PatsyT : Go Vogue! «link»
Sabreen60 : It seems that the RNC has voted to kick CNN and NBC to the curb. However, I thought the candidates decide where and when they will debate. Anyway, I can’t wait until Limpballs moderates a debate.
KillgoreTrout : kes, the two big factors in W’s reelection were Blackwell and 9/11.
AlphaBitch : Gov “Oops” now facing legal troubles, happy to say.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, I saw that, Rachel covered it on her showw and had the young man as a guest. This is blatant racism and of course, illegal. It’s going to get worse in NC before it gets better but no question the courts and the DoJ will be getting involved and stopping what they can.
AlphaBitch : VOGUE magazine has a spread on Wendy Davis. They also did a piece some time ago on the Julian and Joaquin Castro, my guys.
KillgoreTrout : Good luck AB.
kesmarn : Patsy, when GOP Blackwell was SOS in Ohio they had about 1-2 voting machines per precinct for college kids. Tremendous lines and long waits to vote.
SallyT : Wow, glenn!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I love it. Those women also know how the TPGOP thinks about them.
AlphaBitch : KT – check out what Battleground TX is doing here. I”m sad because I’m up to my eyeballs in chirren (happily so) and work (not quite as happy) Will get back to it soon.
glenn : Sally–glad to hear you’re having warm weather. Our temps went “all the way down” to 69 today and the same is expected tomorrow. And I live in GA!
PatsyT : Also at Oberlin they made sure that everyone voted and I mean EVERYONE! now that was a GOTV
AdLib : KT – The problem with the Baggers switching from racism to misogyny is that women make up more than half of voters!
KillgoreTrout : Patsy, young people and minorities are regerstering more and more. That’s why the TPGOP is so hysterical now.
glenn : AB–Like that motto, too!
SallyT : Warm but nice, kT!
PatsyT : Murph, that collage student voter thing was a big deal in Oberlin Ohio last year. My daughter said she doesn’t know anyone who voted Romney.
MurphTheSurf3 : STEPPING OUT FOR AWHILE…BE BACK LATER….CALL TO TAKE.
AlphaBitch : Glenn: along with the motto: “If you hate ’em, don’t debate ’em”
Sabreen60 : Murph, I believe the Supreme Court ruled that students are allowed to vote where they attend school.
glenn : Murph–The new r/tp motto: “If you can’t beat ’em–cheat ’em!”
KillgoreTrout : Sally, still scorching out there?
kesmarn : KT, I think you’re right about the same demographic reacting to Hillary with the same hostility they’ve shown to the Prez.
KillgoreTrout : Very true glenn, and these people are in the “party of personal responsibility. ” Ha!
PatsyT : KT hopefully more and more are dying out, I wouold be curious what the new voter registration is shaping up like.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb- did you see this story:In NC…the Pasquotank County Board of Elections on Tuesday barred an Elizabeth City State University student from running for city council, ruling his on-campus address didn’t establish local residency even though he has voted from that address for three years and that is his permanent address. The decision could set a precedent for Republicans to challenge more students’ voter registrations.
SallyT : My water bill, KT!
KillgoreTrout : What’s up Sally?
SallyT : Hello glenn!
glenn : Hey Sally!
SallyT : Hey Patsy! Amd Sabreen, Kesman, and AdLib!
glenn : KT–Bigotry is interchangeable because there has to be someone else to blame problems on–certainly individual responsibility plays no part in it!
kesmarn : Hey, Sally!
Sabreen60 : Hi Sally!
AdLib : Hey Sally!
kesmarn : …When we all know that the only reason Dubya WON twice was voter fraud/suppressio n!
PatsyT : Hey SallyT!
SallyT : Good evening to the Planet
KillgoreTrout : If Hillary is our next pres, just wait for all the women haters to come pouring out of the woodwork. The black people haters will switch to women hating in a very public way. Isn’t it great how such bigotry is so interchangeable?
glenn : Kes–But, but, but–the only reason r/tp’s lost the presidential election was because of voter fraud–dontcha know?
AlphaBitch : Glenn – get it on Cafe Press. I think it pretty much says it all. AND they had a sale: $1 each a few nights ago. I got 4.
AlphaBitch : Murph: Yes, Steph is going somewhere. Just hope it’s not dish.
kesmarn : There you have it, glenn. The whole voter fraud issue is a fraud itself.
AdLib : Kes – The propaganda is thin but all over NC and the people who believe, want to and NEED to believe it. They all know what is really going on. This is thinly cloaked Jim Crow and it’s no secret.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- Alligators, minefields and a safe room (from which i can operate the gas grenades, rocket launchers and laser beams). Hell, I am sounding like a “secure our borders” radical now.
PatsyT : Super Cool AB! Great to see you!
AlphaBitch : Heck no, Frennie! I’m not as stupid as a Republican!
glenn : AB–I like that bumper sticker!
glenn : Kes–read an article today about Colorado looking into “voter fraud”. Out of over 3 million votes cast, the SOS of CO said 155 were questionable and 17 were not citizens. The AG of CO looked into it–and guess what? All were citizens! Oops. BTW, the SOS is a repub and the AG is a Democrat.
MurphTheSurf3 : AB- Miller says she is has a platform for her TV show and will be announcing it very shortly. I have heard nothing of Fugelsang. If MSNBC wants to liven up its day- he would be a great addition.
kesmarn : Hey, Frennie! You didn’t want to go along on the driving lesson?
AlphaBitch : Bless their hearts, Patsy. I was the third grade spelling champ.
PatsyT : AdLib funny what they chose to apply themselves to. Can’t Spell but sure can Hate!
AlphaBitch : Already happened, Murph. I’m in withdrawal phase.
kesmarn : AdLib, there was a story on NPR about voter suppression in NC and they interviewed a white guy who said he was “sure” there was a lot of voter fraud there. (Wrong. 2 cases in the last 10 years.) And that he was “sure” most everyone in the state had a state ID card. (Wrong. 300,00o people don’t.) They make up their own facts.
AdLib : Murph – Maybe a minefield and a safe room?
glenn : Hey AB!
MurphTheSurf3 : AB- Fugelsang and Stephanie Miller. I am going to miss both when Current becomes Al Jazeera America (how in the hell is THAT going to work?)
glenn : Hey Sabreen!
KillgoreTrout : Murph, need some alligators?
AlphaBitch : I know some Afghans in MO I can loan you, Murph. That should do it…
AdLib : Hey AB!
AdLib : Patsy – Repetition, like learning the multiplication tables, they hear it over and over and finally can recite it from memory. “One Black Man plus One Presidency = Kenyan Communist America Hater.”
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen!
AlphaBitch : “Obama is not the brown skinned socialist wanting to give health care to everyone. You are thinking of Jesus.” -John Fugelsang It’s paraphrased, but it’s my latest bumper sticker which I bought off of Cafe Press. Terrific. How they gonna fight that one? Hey all. Here for a minute. Blov is giving Pup driving lessons. I’m staying home.
glenn : Murph–I know, these poor little right wingers are so persecuted that they are now reduced to trying to censor the media that “persecutes” them.
Sabreen60 : Hey Kes et al, I’m well – just trying to stay positive.
PatsyT : Hey Sabreen!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I think I may have told you all that I have installed security cameras, auto gates and posted threatening signs…I am thinking of a moat and catapaults.
KillgoreTrout : Tough assaignment Murph. Good luck.
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
PatsyT : AdLib How are they smart enough to know the “Code” but can’t spell on their protest signs?
kesmarn : Hi Sabreen, how are you?
Sabreen60 : Hi everyone!
kesmarn : Good thing you made him, Murph.
PatsyT : Fairness Doctrine… Citizens United … Hate Radio … yep people are taking in the toxic crap and its coming out of all ends
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- exactly my concern…did he only notice because I made him?
AdLib : Murph – The plain truth is that they are simply racists. I saw a segment on MSNBC about a reporter who interviewed a Missourian who said, “I’m not a racist, I don’t hate Obama cause he’s black, I just don’t like a communist Kenyan destroying this country.” So many racists think they’re just calling things as they are and are completely blind to how racist they are.
KillgoreTrout : The always has to be “the other,” to whip up hatred and compliance to rotten ideals.
kesmarn : Murph, you have to wonder how someone could “not notice” that shirt… And Patsy, yes, the disagreements are much more “sharp” in tone now than they used to be,
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- how many mosques in Mo.? Don’t know. Few, I would imagine. One of the reasons why I need to figure out how to share my conversation with him without making him the story.
KillgoreTrout : No doubt Ad.
glenn : KT–You’re right about President Obama’s haters not seeing him as their president. In fact, I’ve had this same “discussion” many times on other blogs. When I point out to them that as long as they are American citizens, President Obama is “their” president, I get silence. I also point out to them that they are free to give up their American citizenship and move somewhere else where they will find a president more to their liking. Sigh–they never take me up on it, though.
PatsyT : Kes, I remember my mom telling me she was good friends with a Rush Limpballs listener, she said that they would have little debates but still liked each other so much so it would only get so far.
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- My entire coop shots at this guy’s grocery store and not at the super store down the road- when I pointed out the shirt he looked surprised and said it did not register with him. While I am happy for his response, I worry that he did not notice it.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, that is so disgusting.
kesmarn : Agreed, glenn. It seems worse than the Viet Nam era.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, how many mosques are there in Missouri?
glenn : Kes–Like you, I’m not quite old enough to remember the Civil War, but I do remember the Vietnam War and the protests, yet I don’t remember today’s level of hatred and polarization against elected officials and against our fellow citizens.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- people around here who laughed at the “Coon Hunting” shirts after the Zimmerman verdict are outrage that the rodeo clown is being “persecuted”.
kesmarn : Oh Murph, that T-shirt is really awful. Good for you for standing up to that garbage. Yes, they really react with fury when their prejudice is challenged.
AdLib : KT – Racists are really the same no matter the decade, the words and actions always seem so similar. It gets easier to understand how something like Nazi Germany can happen when you see how the insecurity, fear and hatred in people can be so easily whipped up to make them mindless, hateful followers.
KillgoreTrout : glenn the big problem with these Obama haters is that they refuse to recognize him as “their,” president, when in reaality he IS their president, and every American’s president. They don’t see that as not being patriotic. That’s the real hypocrisy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…got to figure this MB insight….I do not want info that id’s him (how many oncologists are presidents of mosques in Mo.)?
kesmarn : The polarization is incredible Patsy. I’m not *quite* old enough to remember the period before the Civil War, but I have to wonder if it felt something like this.
glenn : KT–And, yet, the tpgop accuse President Obama and the Democrats of being like Hitler and Nazis. Of course, the tpgop don’t even know the history of the former republican president, so why would they know the history of Germany?
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- I have neighbors now who are really angry with me for threatening to boycott a local star where an employee was wearing a T Shirt with the Words “What does the Zimmerman Verdict Mean? with the following answer on the back: “Coon Hunting Season All Year Round”.
AdLib : Murph – Yep, Steve Stockman, a Birther and I believe, someone who got away with threatening the Pres.
PatsyT : Thats rotten Kes, I don’t things have always been so polarized
glenn : Murph–Am I the only one who remembers when people made fun of gwb that we were told, “You may not respect the man, but at least respect the office of the Presidency.” How is encouraging a rodeo clown dressed as President to get hit by a bull, “respecting the office”?
AdLib : Murph – That would be very enlightening, to hear the perspective of someone like him on their perspective of the Muslim Brotherhood. If given permission by him, would appreciate your sharing it at The Planet.
kesmarn : “than ever” not “than even”!
KillgoreTrout : I think you’ll like it Murph. Pretty powerful.
kesmarn : Race is more an issue than even in some ways these days. I have several family members who are actually not speaking to me any more after the Trayvon Martin verdict. I supported the Martin family’s pov and they really got furious.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, the people in the film reminded me so much of many of our modern day TPGOP, in their attitudes toward people not “like themselves.” It was exactly the same as what we see today.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT I have not seen “Focus”. I will add it to my list.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- The rodeo clown thing has heated up here again thanks to a Texas Congressman who has invited him to come to Texas and to “perform”. That same Rep. has said that the state’s clowning association will gladly make him a member.
PatsyT : Oh great to hear Kes. He has a lot of experience and knowledge.
AdLib : KT – There are people like the ones here who approved of the Nazis, in every nation. They gravitate to racism and hatred of “the other”, these themes are so repugnant in the Repugnant party for that reason.
KillgoreTrout : Yeah kes. Much better.
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! Got a note from Mike today. Thanks for making the connection!
kesmarn : KT, how’re you doing? Tooth (or former tooth site) better?
PatsyT : Hi Kes!
AdLib : Murph – The dichotomy is stunning. This movie is in the theaters, we have a black President and yet look at what’s been said and done just this week in terms of racism. Unfortunately, MO keeps being an area where this keeps happening, such as the rodeo clown incident. Has to be challenging to deal with some folks there.
KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie!
kesmarn : Hey, glenn! Good luck to your granddaughter in her game!
glenn : Hey Kes
kesmarn : Just popping in for a brief moment, friends. Did I see that Jane Fonda plays Nancy Reagan in the Butler!? That’s amazing casting!
KillgoreTrout : I just watched a great film called “Focus,” about Prejudice against American Jews during WWII. William H Macy stars. Pretty sickening that while our men and women were fighting the Nazis, some people here apporved of what the Nazis were doing. Disgusting.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- I might use my experience as the kickoff to my review….I am looking forward to doing this.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- Jane Fonda did Nancy Reagan to perfection. Incredible and ironic.
glenn : Murph–I’m looking forward to your review. Also have to ask–I see Jane Fonda has a role in the film; haven’t seen her in anything in a while. How was her part?
AdLib : Murph – That is a very poignant moment to have experienced. When one is surrounded with people of a like mind, the things they do no matter how wrong we know them to be today, can seem so normal to them. I think a post of such memories would be remarkable.
KillgoreTrout : Sounds good Murph. Whitaker has great range as an actor.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…and that powerful beginning is echoed again and again in the film. I am going to do a Planet Review for this one.
PatsyT : Opps Howdy
glenn : Murph–I think the most powerful films and books, for that matter, are the ones that resonate deep inside us.
PatsyT : Hody KT
KillgoreTrout : Hey Patsy!
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- Whitaker’s performance is going to, I predict, be hailed as one of the finest of his career. And Oprah as his wife is unbelievable…. a broken woman made whole…
KillgoreTrout : Sounds great glenn. I’m sure you get a lot of pleasure watching her play. Proud grandma an all.
PatsyT : Doing well AdLib, Busy but well!
AdLib : PATSY! How are you?
glenn : Hi Patsy
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….I will be very interested in you POV on this. I intend to write a review for the Planet. I spent a good deal of my childhood in the old south (which seems to becoming the new south) and this film awakened all kinds of memories….such as my mother telling our maid that while she had to answer the front door, she could not use it…..and my mom was a good woman.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, glasses?
PatsyT : Hey kids, How is everyone?
glenn : KT–First soccer game of the season tomorrow! Goooo Hailey (that’s my granddaughter)!
KillgoreTrout : What’s up glenn and Ad?
AdLib : KT – I stand corrected…or maybe I drive corrected?
glenn : Murph–WOW–talk about a powerful beginning!
KillgoreTrout : Murph, I think Forest Witaker is a great actor. One of America’s best. I am interested too, in seeing this film.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- the film begins in 1926 in the South when the title character sees his father shot through the head because he object in the mildest of ways to his wife being raped by the shooter- and this took place in the wide open, in the middle of day, in front of dozen of witnesses….
AdLib : Murph – I think that the theme of inequality has to be at the root of the film (which I haven’t seen yet). I did see the director in an interview saying one key theme was that we all serve our nation in what we do and that there shouldn’t be classism or the sense that anyone is inferior because of how they serve the country.
glenn : Hey KT
MurphTheSurf3 : What is particularly powerful about the film is that NO ONE is a Movie Hero. All are ordinary people doing the best they can and making lots of mistakes. The title character and his wife are studies in the power of human to change…..I was really move. This film is one of the best of the year.
KillgoreTrout : Ad wouldn’t that be frequent driver points?
glenn : Murph–So this film takes place before blacks had the right to vote?
AdLib : Hey KT!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Ho Planeteers!
MurphTheSurf3 : In my opinion, the underlining thesis is that VOTING RIGHTS are the key to equality. I have no idea if the film makers intended that to be so clear but given the current headlines the message could not be more on point.
glenn : Murph–Good evening. Heard a lot about The Butler. Hope to see it myself.
AdLib : Hey Murph! Please do share about your thoughts and converstion about the film.
MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings Planeteers….ju st back from a delightful afternoon and evening. Saw “The Butler” with a group of friends, then went to dinner where we discussed/argued about it for two hours. Wonderful. AND in my opinion a very significant film.
glenn : ChoiceLady–I’m here–how are you?
AdLib : Hey CL! Holy mackeral, a million miles, hope you get frequent flier points for it!
AdLib : Evening glenn! And Mr. Colbert is just fine.
choicelady : Helllooooo – anybody there? I’m here for only a short time. Have to get up at O Dark Thirty to drive a million miles to a presentation and need my beauty rest…Hope SOMEONE is here!
glenn : Good evening Ad–or should I say Stephen–how are you?
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!