• MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib = still here?

  • AdLib : Glad you’re feeling better, CL! Vox is recommended by 9 out of 10 doctors! See you next week, sleep well and best to hubby!

  • choicelady : AdLib – thank you! I think so, too! Well, I will let you go. I am doing a yoga class tomorrow morning early, and I need sleep. Feeling LOTS better, so thank you. Clearly I needed VOX to get me back in trim! Good night to you, and good night Murph if you’re still there! See you next week!

  • AdLib : CL – Same here, keeping my positive thoughts on that! We need your group to be MORE prominent!

  • choicelady : AdLib – we’d better get this grant or we MIGHT be out of business! We are down to the fumes financially since we lost that last grant. But we were told we were finalists, and I think we will be in the group OK. I sure hope so!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, will be replying to that email, so happy to hear that! Very cool about the Cal Labor! Cool!!!!

  • choicelady : AdLib – in the meantime, I sent you an email on today’s meeting with Steinberg’s staffer, and I’m working on employee ownership issues. I was just invited to be part of the closing plenary for the Cal Labor Fed in San Jose May 31!! I will be talking about union coops and the USW-MOndragon program. I am SO EXCITED!

  • AdLib : CL – So I have to keep my fingers crossed for a couple weeks more? Okay then!

  • AdLib : Murph, we look after our people here. Take care!

  • choicelady : Murph – it’s super having you here, and we will be keeping our fingers crossed for your farm and your well being! I never thought I’d do an ANTI rain dance, but for you? Anything! Be well!

  • AdLib : Sleep well Murph! Sent you a somewhat delayed lengthy email, you can start reading it if you’re having trouble getting to sleep! Night!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Best to all- and Ad Lib…thanks for your special words – I will get back to you on this. Also thanks for the search party with Bourne

  • choicelady : Murph – I think she could tell we were not Anglophones but Amurcans and gave me the benefit of the doubt!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well- I am ready to go back to sleep….so next week, hopefully from the start.

  • choicelady : AdLib – if we get this grant ($761,000!!!) I will indeed be on top of it all, I hope by late June and would be glad to post something. I will also do more digging on other states for those NOT in CA. I’m just totally burned out on it now. They were supposed to tell the grantees April 26 but have pushed it back to “mid May” whatever THAT means. My brains hurt.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- the Quebers remind me of the French- make an effort and they work with you.

  • choicelady : Murph – once in small town Quebec I ordered two chicken dinners from a KFC – all en Francais. And I don’t speak French. Worked fine. Got what I wanted because I could read it and faked the order in Franglish. The woman wasn’t even snotty to me.

  • AdLib : CL – Would really like to see the details when you have them, we should post an article here about them this year, before 2014 so folks can be ahead of the curve.

  • choicelady : Murph – oh, yeah on the donuts! Tim Horton and we became fast friends. They have GREAT soup, too! That sustained us when nothing else was available.

  • choicelady : AdLib – ACA is different. If no one is hospitalized no deductible, and it’s per person with $13K as the cap even ifyou have a kajillion members in your family.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- the Candians love their donut shops

  • AdLib : CL – I do think that the free preventative care will make a huge difference, especially for those previously uninsured. It should take a huge expense and burden off hospitals and the whole medical system.

  • choicelady : Murph – I lived across the Niagara River from Ontario. I used to drive across the Route de Pioneers (Rt. 3) to Windsor to get to Chicago, and it was always fun. Not real pretty but very interesting. HORRIBLE food though – nothing but bad pizza, donuts, ice cream. Yuck. Otherwise, very cool.

  • AdLib : CL – That’s not how most insurance policies are, they have an individual deductible and a family deductable, often the individual is maybe half of the family deductible.

  • choicelady : And any copays you might incur for hospital, doc visits not in preventive free care all go toward the deductible unlike the Romney-Arnold plans.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Nova Scotia…never been there. BC yes, Ontario, Quebec, yes.

  • choicelady : Wait – math impaired. What’s $13000 divided by 4? Whatever that is.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think the per person amount is around $2500.

  • AdLib : CL – I get it, unlikely. Individual deductibles for each family member may be half of that but still, I find such high deductibles problematic. Once a few years go by and if health costs are pushed down as they should be, deductibles like this should be trimmed way back.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I SO agree about the deductible. But that said, even with Kim Belshe’s handiwork, that is IF and ONLY IF you have the whole family hospitalized in a year.

  • AdLib : The Rockies are just stunning and the glaciers, the lakes and forests…wow…

  • choicelady : AdLib – never have been to Alberta. Photos – to DIE for!

  • AdLib : I really enjoyed Alberta, gorgeous and stunning up there!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I associate back bacon, peanut butter with added fat, and beer with Canada, yes. That and really BAD pizza.

  • choicelady : Murph – I once lived in Nova Scotia and loved it. I’d go back in a trice, or to BC even though it’s more conservative. If we can’t live here anymore, well…

  • AdLib : CL – Hope that’s the case, that $13k deductible situation needs to be revisited soon though.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think you’ve nailed it on front end, back end.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the non-profit tax credit goes to employers for employees making $50K or less, but I think employers in the private sector including the SELF employed get the credit for any insurance for any employee. I think. I also think I don’t absolutely know what I’m talking about…I’ve paid way too little attention to the employer end of things in the private sector. I will check it out for you. Beats babbling.

  • AdLib : And a Molson, eh?

  • AdLib : I could go for some back bacon, eh?

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, it makes sense, either a subsidy or tax credit. So in essence, the poorer folks get their discount up front, those doing better get it on the back end at tax time.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Love Canada and the Canadians

  • choicelady : AdLib and Murph – I’m up for Canada. Even WITH Harper.

  • AdLib : Murph – Bingo! If only a Dust Bowl Senator can do for the rest of the US what they’ve done in their state…we’d have to move to Canada.

  • choicelady : No – anyone self employed regardless of income CAN get that tax credit I think. It’s the employement picture, not the income for that. They can’t get the subsidy, and if you GET the subsidy, you’d not be eligible for the credit. Am I making any sense here?

  • AdLib : CL – Little Myth Climatehood

  • AdLib : CL – Oh, right! But you said higher incomes don’t get a subsidy, that’s what a tax credit would be.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Oklahoma

  • choicelady : Murph – WHICH dust bowl state? Too damned many of them!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- If you cannot trust the Senator from the new Dust Bowl State..who can you trust?

  • choicelady : ADLib – your myths are burning!

  • choicelady : AdLib – non profits get a 25% tax credit. It’s money BACK, not a deduction.

  • AdLib : Murph – Yep, had little rain this year, has pushed up our fire season into Spring which is unusual. Good thing Climate Change is a myth!

  • choicelady : ADLib – you can take the credit even if you do not itemize!

  • choicelady : AdLib – on the higher level plans, the deductible is MUCH smaller even if the monthly is higher. I am going to have to work this out to see what it comes to. Remember, it’s $13,000 IF you have ALL members of the family hospitalized. If not – almost zero deductible for preventive care. It’s not likely most families will have 4 or more people in the hospital in a given year, but yes – it sucks. There is a lower per person deductible, but even so, many families will be better off taking a better plan, somewhat higher monthly and virtually NO deductible if your kid has asthma or something like that.

  • AdLib : CL – Tax credits don’t help much when you earn $40k but have a deductible of $13k, you’re not paying enough in taxes for that to help enough.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I often think of these fires in CA….you all are still in drought conditions, yes?

  • AdLib : Murph – The big fire in LA is about 30 miles away from me, not a threat at all to my home but the smoke from the fires swept over here earlier and made being outside and breathing a bad thing.

  • AdLib : CL – Oh, well that’s slightly better but still outrageous. So instead of 50% of one’s annual salary, the deductible is 1/3. Not reasonable.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the self employed do get huge tax credits – 35% of your costs – as a ‘small business’ person. If you are over the subsidizable income (400% of FPL) that is a big help.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- my early planting was to get a head start on the drought and it was largely experimental…s o no big deal. Folks around here on the rivers have a far different problem. Ad Lib and the fires- yes, I thought of that- far more pressing.

  • AdLib : CL – My concern is for the self-employed/co nsultant/part-ti me workers who don’t get the subsidies. How can they be expected to pay for insurance that won’t pay off (aside from preventative care) in almost every instance.

  • choicelady : Murph – whew. That part is helpful, but having to go back and replant? I am terribly sorry this has happened to you and your neighbors. Climate change just sucks. And AdLib can’t go out- he’s got smoke from the fires. Horrible.

  • choicelady : ADLib – BTW – the $40K is NET income, not gross.

  • choicelady : AdLib – there ARE better options if you have a sick person, and the “silver plan” I think has very low deductibles though higher monthly costs – but overall MUCH more affordable with the subsidies. I still have to pencil it all out and then figure out what the fed plans are – they are not even posted yet.

  • AdLib : Damn, that’s messed up, Murph.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- No real risk. Far from a river…just a mess…not much loss yet. It will rain into early Monday and then clear for several days. That I can live with.

  • choicelady : Oh Murph – I am SO sorry! I can’t even imagine the loss. All that work you did! Now the main thing is whether YOU are OK, the house, barn, etc. Are you at serious risk there?

  • AdLib : CL – That can’t be left in place! $40k is maybe $28k take home…and someone is supposed to pay almost half of their annual income as a deductible?! That’s insane! Now I’m not so excited.

  • choicelady : AdLib – there are higher premium plans that are actually LESS expensive if you have a sick person. MUCH less expensive and more comprehensive coverage. So we have to educate people to look at the WHOLE picture. But Kim Belshe (I remembered her name) was a huge supporter of Arnold’s plan, and she’s part of the team. I think she did this. I will slap that bitch next I see her.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- a lot of the fields are under water….my early and small planting got washed out. I have three small lakes/retention ponds and all three have overflown their damns…so nothing huge yet but there are concerns.

  • choicelady : AdLib – around $40K and up you get hit with that deductible. Disgusting.

  • AdLib : $13,000!!! That’s a disaster, what typical person can afford that crap? It’s worthless at that level! What incomes does that apply to?

  • choicelady : Murph are you safe???? I have friends near the Mississippi, and it’s very scary!

  • AdLib : Murph – Is your farm okay or did the flood hurt your planting?

  • choicelady : AdLib – in higher level plans it’s $13,000 per year for a family. That’s ROMNEY level deductibles, and I’m furious. It will be better for families with sick people to take a higher level plan with subsidies for the premiums than a lower level plan with lower monthly rates but higher deductibles. I’ve not seen the whole thing, but that pissed me off – it’s all the work of the idiot women who was Arnolds HHS director. I can’t even remember her name I hate her so much. I see her at Safeway now and then – we glare at each other.

  • AdLib : CL – Really makes me feel good to know that the poor and self-employed in red states aren’t forgotten by the Obama Admin…as their own Repub reps would rather have it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey there- just awakened- tons of rain and the lakes and damns are overflowing. From drought to Noah’s Ark.

  • AdLib : CL – Do you think that the success of setting up single payer in red states could start to turn some of them purple? Any gratitude to Dems for that coming down the road and any concern about Repubs taking it away from them?

  • choicelady : MURPH!!! I’m so happy to see you! How is your farm and how is your computer?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think the failure of the Red States to provide for their own, the poorest folks in the nation, led HHS to find a way to do it very inexpensively. They want health care to work for everyone, not just the rich, and this is the best way in those places where the poor working families, too well off for Medicaid, to have insurance. I am very impressed with the dedication.

  • AdLib : MURPH! Great to see you!

  • AdLib : CL – That’s a bit of a drag, what’s the deductible going to be in the CA exchange?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Making it two weeks in a row at the midnight hour.

  • AdLib : Will do Sally!

  • choicelady : Good night, Sally – and good luck getting your stuff back! Damn that Weiner!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I wish I had the story here about all this, I’d paste it in. I have it in my office computer files and can’t find it googling. Or even binging! But I’m very excited about it – the CA Exchange is not as good as I’d hoped, thanks to conservative forces that imposed higher deductibles than promised. So having gov’t options is essential. But for RED states without Exchanges, the world of health care is going to be a major revolution!

  • SallyT : Thanks, AdLib! You and CL continue on. I will leave and you just email me when you are done. Good night, CL!

  • AdLib : Sally, I will get them moved over, no need for you to go through all that work! You’ll just have to double check to make sure they’re ordered properly.

  • AdLib : CL – No worries, I’ll get it done. Let’s finish up our chat! I’m excited about what a new world it will be after the changes in 2014 take hold!

  • SallyT : If you can’t, just let me know and I will go back and pull them again but I will need as much time as possible.

  • choicelady : AdLib – do you need to go to help Sally? We can talk tomorrow or later about ACA if she needs you. I don’t think anyone else will show up at this late date.

  • AdLib : Sally – Will do my best but tomorrow is jam packed with family activities so bear with me! Thanks!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I can hardly wait!

  • AdLib : CL – And can you imagine the shock that will hit when the exchanges have had a chance to kick in, the pre-existing conditions crap is gone and millions more are insured and not running up the expense of health care with emergency room visits?

  • choicelady : AdLib – ACA did not do that at first. It will be for ONLY those states that don’t have an Exchange. They also said they’d make gov’t plans available in Exchanges . It’s grown, matured, developed all behind the RW back. Cool, I think!

  • SallyT : Okay, I will not add anything tonight. Please, if you can, do it as early as possible. It takes me all day when there are there and now I will be two days behind. If you can, that will really help me.

  • choicelady : AdLib – if it’s like the Congressional plans -based on private insurance – it will be rate regulated as in Switzerland, Germany, France. It won’t be ‘market driven’ even as Congress has to some extent.

  • AdLib : Will do Sally (will do so tomorrow)! Night!

  • SallyT : That should do it, Adlib. It appears that everything before is there. Email when you have had time to get to it. THANKS!!!!

  • AdLib : CL – Because my recollection is that the ACA didn’t incorporate government plans like Congress has. I could be wrong.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I believe that’s correct, but I’m not yet totally sure since I’m not focused on Red States. It may be actual GOV’T plans like the High Risk Pool has been that KQ and others have had. THAT part eludes me at the moment, but the government will run it, that much I do know.

  • AdLib : I sure can, everything AFTER the Weiner cartoon with the pillow on May 1st is copied and pasted into the current draft?

  • AdLib : CL – When you say government plans, do you mean the same plans that Congress has?

  • SallyT : In the Revisions May 1st, everything after the Weiner needs to be brought back up and on the post. Can you do that????

  • choicelady : Sweet dreams, Sally!

  • AdLib : Sleep well Sally!

  • AdLib : Sally – Absolutely, I can help. Just let me know specifically what the section is I should copy and paste from the previous draft to the current one! Seep well!

  • choicelady : Sue – Good night!

  • choicelady : AdLib – in Blue states or those with Exchanges, you will have choices of private insurance or government plans. I have the story at the office not here, but it’s a doozy.

  • SallyT : See you later, Sue!

  • SueInCa : Ok night

  • choicelady : AdLib – Nope. Not in red states!

  • choicelady : Sally – very good luck getting the NON Weiner funnies up and running. Don’t let him get you down!

  • AdLib : CL – But that’s not single payer, that’s state exchanges for buying from insurance companies, right?

  • SallyT : I need to go, too. AdLib, please email me on it you can help me. if not, I will be screaming loudly and you will hear me!

  • SueInCa : People do want to see their President. If he comes to CA again, I hope he comes to our poor area and not the Silicon Valley

  • choicelady : Sally – I do agree, but I think he’s being very careful about what issues are mobilizing the public and which ones just need to get done. I think he’s sensible about the differences.

  • AdLib : Wow, impressive Sue! Very cool! Sleep well!

  • choicelady : Sue! That is so cool!!! Have a good night and great week. I will write to see if we can get together soon.

  • SallyT : I think there are times when discretion can hurt, too. The President has been going out more and that is helping regardless of the RW saying it is showboating. I think people like to hear it direct.

  • choicelady : AdLib – when there is no state option, the Feds will provide the health plan. In every state, including those with Exchanges such as CA, there will be two government options. So, whether the idiots who refuse to set up Exchanges know it or not, they will HAVE health care plans – government run. How’d that for irony?

  • SueInCa : Well friends, I think I need to sign off. I had a two hour class today on the course I am taking through Stanford and all that thinking got me tired. If anyone wants to know about the classes let me know. They are online and free and some really great topics. International Criminal Law, The Holocaust and Epidemiology. There is also one on Democracy butI wanted criminal law.

  • AdLib : CL – Okay, give, how is Obama setting up single payer in red states?

  • choicelady : Sally and Sue – I’m aware that much of what is getting done is not being broadcast, but think about the reaction and propaganda that already happened with the Baggers. There are times when discretion is the better policy.

  • AdLib : Sue – The GOP has been attacking Obama for going out to the public so much instead of “staying here in Washington to work on things” so if they’re making such a big deal about it, he must be doing a good job at it. Obama went on a public tour on the sequester, he did it again on gun legislation, I would make the case that he’s been very engaged with the public this term.

  • SallyT : Again, no one explained that.

  • choicelady : Sally – the fee schedule is right out of CA single payer. Almost identical. Very cool, IMHO!

  • SallyT : I didn’t say it had anything to do with the ACA.

  • choicelady : Sally – the whole plan is a composite. PBO knew he could not pass it if he’d said the payment schedule was from the CA single payer. Only because I’ve read it all do I know that. It’s something even the single payer people in CA do not know because they never read the funding bill!!! Only I did.

  • SueInCa : I just want to see more Adlib. But truth be told, I can hardly stomach the cable news without going off on the idiocy so I very well could be missing a lot of appearances by Obama.

  • SallyT : Kaiser is different, Sue. But, I read today that there has been increases to many insurance plans and that it was going to be an issue in 2014. Who knows.

  • choicelady : Sally – the insurance increases have nothing to do with ACA. They are doing it because it is NOT yet in place to regulate them! I get regular press releases on ACA – you never see any of it in the MSM. PBO at this point is implementing SINGLE PAYER in RED states – and is doing it quietly because it would set off the idiots. But when there is no state plan, there will be GOVERNMENT plans – and, by the way, there will be two government plans IN every state exchange. So, yes, by quiet movement, we are getting where we want to be. ANd yes it is NOT being communicated – how much more do we want to hear from the Bagger about “government taking over our lives”??? I’m for stealth here.

  • AdLib : Sue – Agreed, he has such an impact on the public, that was missing so much of his first term but towards the end of it, he changed gears and today we see a far more publicly engaged Obama. The Repubs hate it, they liked the early days when Obama just said nice things about them and bipartisanship while they stabbed him in the back. Those days are long gone.

  • SueInCa : Sally, what increase? My plan went down this year. Kaiser lowered our plan by almost 50 dollars a month

  • SallyT : If it was based on the CA single payer plan that is something else that wasn’t explained. All I ever heard was that it was Mass.

  • SueInCa : I agree but I think Adlib is right, next year. Maybe mid year

  • AdLib : CL – Appreciate the details, didn’t know the ACA was based on the CA single payer plan. I do wish that instead of doing it at the last minute to get Lieberman on board, Obama had pushed “Medicare For All” from the beginning, I think it would have succeeded. I do see a lot of blame on Rahm for that though, he was the point man and strategist.

  • choicelady : Sue – I think Patrick needs a whole lot more public exposure. Hardly anyone knows him, not even me, and I have family in MA. There are tons of good Dems. One needs to step up and let people get to know her/him.

  • SallyT : Hey, CL, no need to campaign on it. The President himself referred to it as something he drew from. I think there will be a lot made of the increase in insurance that is hitting now. Of course, the insurance companies now have to show that it is going to research or pay penalties.

  • SueInCa : I love that side of him too Adlib. But sometimes I think he focuses too much on chess matches and not enough on us. He is a great orator so he should have absolutely no problem explaining his actions and decisions

  • choicelady : Sally – ACA has NO relationship to Romney care. I know both programs very well. ACA is NOTHING like the GOP plan. We had the MA plan proffered here so I read it – all 1000 pages – and it sucked. ACA is very patient friendly, and it took its payment schedule from the CA single payer plan NOT from Romney. It’s nothing like Romneycare at ALL. That said, there were nowhere enough votes for single payer, and PBO would not waste time with it – that is what leadership is about. We had at MOST, both houses, 100 votes for it (and that was a stretch) when we needed 278. Sanders immediately GOT – at PBO’s invite – the right to present VT single payer as their state option. He never even said thank you or that PBO is NOT opposed. PBO knows what can pass – and what cannot. That’s cheesy of Bernie not to admit PBO was in support of single payer WHERE IT COULD PASS.

  • AdLib : Sue – I agree that Obama can be so process oriented, he doesn’t communicate enough with the people. Some things, like strategic maneuvers such as CL described on SS just can’t be communicated without exposing the game but on other things like the ACA, he blew it. I think though that on gun control (also an anti-corporatist issue), he has played it as well as he could, bringing 90% of Americans together.

  • SallyT : Okay, I am out numbered. Bernie stays in the Senate but I still would like to see him in a debate.

  • SueInCa : What about Devall Patrick or Kes’s ex governor? I like them both

  • SueInCa : Bernie’s place is in the Senate. He can do more good there and he can sound off more too. I say he stays there, not that he asked me

  • SueInCa : Bernie

  • SueInCa : Yeah I remembered that he dropped it as I was hitting enter

  • AdLib : CL – I’m with you on Bernie, he is someone whose positions are usually in line with mine but on Health Care, his all or nothing approach would have left us with nothing. I am all for his ability to criticize Obama when he disagrees with him but he did stray into demagogue territory too much at times. I still like him but as a Senator.

  • choicelady : Sue – I was going to suggest Deaniac (who has dropped that name in irritation with Dean being too polemical on a couple of things.) Spandan C as he is now, gives GREAT info!

  • SueInCa : Oooh two women in the WH? Ever heard of a test of wills? Those two? Game on…

  • SallyT : Why should he say he is wrong if that is what he is for? I never was too fond of the ACA as it was a Republican plan. But, it was at least something.

  • SueInCa : Perhaps it is his communication. I know he cannot tell us everything but he does not follow through with communication on his reasoning behind decisions or his objectives. I guess it appears as if he is captulating all the time. Don’t worry when I get too discouraged, I run over and read Deaniac and I am ok again

  • choicelady : Sally – that might be a reality! TWO strong women in the WH!!

  • SallyT : I hope Elizabeth can get more attention and get somethings done and maybe she won’t look so new at it. I think she would be great! Maybe if it is Hillary, she can be VP. Now that would be something!

  • choicelady : Sally – Bernie pounded the table over single payer saying Obama was a sell out. Then never said thanks when Obama, without turning a hair, GAVE Vermont the right to have single payer as their state option. THAT pissed me right off. He would not admit he was being judgemental and was wrong.

  • AdLib : Sue – Lilly Ledbetter Act, raising the minimum wage, expanding Medicare, trying to kill loopholes for the oil companies, banks and the wealthy, raising taxes on the wealthy…those would have to be reconciled with Obama being a corporatist.

  • choicelady : Sue – he DID stand up for the unions in WI but did it with respect for their local control! He is NOT harming SS – we’ve had long discussions, and CCPI is not undermining SS at all. First – it’s a bargaining tool that will never come to pass, but it would not harm us due to provisions for increased BASE for the needy. He’s very savvy. The GOP would GET CCPI if and only if they raise taxes. That’s the ‘pig flying’ thing. He is using it to prove they are LYING.

  • SallyT : He may be cranky, CL, but I like it! I have not found him wrong on issues that I am most concerned about.

  • SueInCa : I favor her over Hillary too and if the R’s run a newbie, she would be a perfect choice to go up against them because experience would not be an issue

  • AdLib : Sue – It’s hard for me to see the President who has tied the hands of the insurance companies as a corporatist.

  • choicelady : Sally – some of the best folks are excellent where they are. Not everyone moves fluidly into other positions. Look at Kucinich. I met him, have liked him, and he’s been a disappointment even in Congress. Being principled is great. Being doctrinaire is not.

  • SallyT : Thank you, Sue, my fellow Heist!

  • SueInCa : I personally think Obama is a corporatist. He did not stand up for the unions in WI, he has favored the corporatists on Wall Street and he is willing to hit SS. To me, that is not a man of the people. Don;t get me wrong, I still like him and I know he was our best bet but I don;t kid myself that he is OF the people. Perhaps he just has not communicated very well.

  • AdLib : CL – Yep, I too would be a big Elizabeth Warren supporter, she would be like the second coming of FDR as President!

  • SallyT : I guess I am more taken with the movie Heist and the facts that were given in it on all that has been named.

  • choicelady : Sally – Bernie has lost favor with me by being wrong on some serious factual issues. He gets too cranky and is sometimes WRONG about things. He is wonderful as a Senator, but i don’t see him compromising, and that will be essential no matter what even within the Dem party.

  • SallyT : Of course, Bernie is good at where he is, too.

  • AdLib : Sally, when Obama initially ran in 2007, he didn’t have any meaningful Wall Street ties. They did back him later on when he looked like the likely winner but that always happens. And once Pres, his ties grew because he had such close dealings with them during the economic crisis. But is Obama a corporatist? I think that would be hard to document.

  • choicelady : Sue – I love Ellis where he is. NOT as president. His focus has been too narrow by necessity. Warren would be my pick. I love Franken, but he’s accomplished very little though his politics are good. So Warren is my first preference of the younger, newer group.

  • SallyT : Sue, I wish Bernie wasn’t so old!

  • AdLib : CL – You hope that once someone is in the position of leading a country, they change to consider the power they hold and the welfare of all the people. I would hope Hillary would do so but yes, her and the Clinton track record is one that has not been friendly to labor and very friendly to Wall Street and corporations.

  • SallyT : She doesn’t strike me as someone that would cry over hurt feelings to often.

  • SueInCa : If I had my wish I would want ideally someone like Franken, Ellis, Warren

  • choicelady : Sally – he had a few, he rode them hard to do his bidding. She’d capitulate. He did not.

  • SallyT : Obama has had his ties to Wall Street and he did keep a lot of Bush’s and Clinton’s people in that area.

  • SueInCa : There is a difference between emotional tears and tears because someone hurt your feeling

  • choicelady : AdLib – her candidacy would be a step backward. Compared to ANY GOPer, I’d support her, but I want someone who is a progressive in a TRUE sense, not just on social issues. Sharing in the wealth is essential for all working families, and I don’t think Hillary has that commitment. AND I don’t entirely trust her on racial equity either.

  • AdLib : Sue – Agreed and she will have to avoid things like her exaggerations about being under fire when she wasn’t at the airport. She’s got to be straight up and honest all the way down the line or she could undermine herself again.

  • SueInCa : The right will make a bigger deal about it than necessary, better not to give them the carrot

  • SallyT : I think the times Obama showed his tears hasn’t hurt him. Of course, he is a man and not a wimpy female……

  • AdLib : CL – Right with you on that. The Clintons are heavily in bed with hedge funds, remember Bill dissing Obama for criticizing them? You can bet Hillary wouldn’t do so. Chelsea worked for a hedge fund, her husband ran a hedge fund (and still may), Bill is heavily entwined with them in his CLinton Initiative…she would not be a populist on economic issues I don’t think.

  • SallyT : I think she can hold those tears and present them if appropriate.

  • choicelady : Sue – you may be correct about that, but I don’t think it harmed her in the primary. Her policies set her back, not that. In the general against a hardnosed RW idiot? A Fatal mistake yes!!!

  • choicelady : I learned last week at a conference on employee ownership that while the Labor Dept. is not able to focus on that – just trying to get union rights back was enough – the WH under Obama is VERY supportive of employee owned business. I can’t see Hillary having that commitment.

  • SueInCa : There is one thing needs to happen, she is going to have to put on her man pants. She cannot go getting all teary eyed. I think that was a major mistake. She has to be a Thatcher without being the total bitch

  • SallyT : I agree with you Sue. I think she has seen many things that may have changed her thoughts.

  • AdLib : Sue – Strategically, Hillary shouldn’t declare until 2013, freezing the rest of the field (except for those long shots who would run anyway).

  • choicelady : Sally – whew. That’s good – that stovepipe thing was hard to deal with!

  • SueInCa : Adlib I think she is not as much a warrior as she might have been before the State Department. She experienced a great deal there and I would bet her thought processes went through major realignment

  • AdLib : CL – A valid concern, if the Repubs nominate Rubio for example, Hillary’s age would stand out more but…so would her experience over a not-very-intelle ctual novice like Rubio.

  • SallyT : Well, not that tall. Just she didn’t go for the skull hugging ones.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I do NOT relish her policies on economics and labor. She is too wedded to NAFTA etc.

  • SueInCa : LOLthat is what I though of too.

  • choicelady : Sally – I now envision your mother with a ‘cat in the hat’ style. I am quite sure I’m wrong.

  • AdLib : CL – Hillary is to the right of Obama and she would have room to stay over that way. She is a corporatist and more of a hawk, just like Bill. Even so, on many social issues, she is similar to Obama.

  • SallyT : My mother always wore hats. She usually picked tall ones because she was so short.

  • SueInCa : Some are pushing for her to declare this early. I think it is just an idea to totally freak out the right and get them foaming at the mouth

  • choicelady : AdLib – I worry that Hillary will be considered too old.

  • SueInCa : I like hats but I always thought they did not look good with glasses, go figure. My little niece is a cool looking girl with her glasses, she wears them well. Adlib I don’tknow if she will. There are many people trying to force her hand right now

  • SallyT : I don’t know if Hillary will run or not. However, I won’t be surprised if she does.

  • choicelady : Sally – OK – now I’m caught up.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think it will happen, and it will be interesting. I was sort of amazed at a discussion yesterday, probably Chris Hayes, saying Hillary would run RIGHT of Obama, and everyone agreed. Said that would be true!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, KT headed out to draft the Weekend Music Thread.

  • SallyT : KT signed off when you thought I was, CL.

  • choicelady : What happened to KT? Did he leave?

  • SallyT : I kinda miss hats…..

  • SueInCa : Adlib are you there? JK saw your comment

  • AdLib : So what do you think? Does Hillary run as expected and will she win and be the first woman President? Imagine that…the first black US Pres followed by the first woman US Pres? Would be amazing.

  • choicelady : Sue – I can imagine! I don’t even own a hat now.

  • SueInCa : I remember first time I went to Mass without one, it felt weird

  • choicelady : Sue – best thing ever happened was abandoning white gloves and hats. Ugh.

  • SueInCa : No Sally someone said good night so I thought you were leaving

  • SueInCa : I know CL sometimes we had to wear a hat but mantillas were so much easier

  • choicelady : Sally – we don’t want you to go, so there!

  • AdLib : I’m still here!

  • SallyT : Well, no, not yet. But, if the vote is for me to leave, I still won’t!

  • kesmarn : I sure will, kids. I still have a week to annoy the RW and I plan to use every minute of it! Y’all have a great weekend!

  • SueInCa : NIGHT KES, EVERYONE LEAVING AT ONE

  • choicelady : Sue – yeah, that never made sense. Over the CURLERS maybe. Over the hair? Not so much.

  • AdLib : So, a renewed focus this week on Hillary running, Emily’s List is going to put a bunch of money behind “a female Presidential nominee”, how inevitable is it that Hillary runs and will she win as the polls today say she will?

  • SueInCa : Sally are you leaving too?

  • choicelady : Good night Sally! See you Sunday!

  • SallyT : And, I am always glad to see you in the funnies, KT!

  • SueInCa : LOL neither do I CL but I remember getting out hair curled on a sat night with welk in the background. Then we put a mantilla over the curls…go figure

  • AdLib : Night Kes! Will email you over the weekend!

  • choicelady : kes – sweet dreams. Keep us posted via AdLib or Sue. We are all concerned and thinking of you.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks Sally always glad to see you there.

  • kesmarn : G’night, Homie! I think I’ll be heading out the door as well… Hey are those bubbles I see?

  • choicelady : Sue – even to catch a glimpse of your husband’s uncle I’m not sure I can bring myself to watch Welk. Ugh.

  • SallyT : KT, you have a great night and I will be watching for you in the music.

  • SueInCa : Ha, my original comment did post. It disappeared on me

  • KillgoreTrout : An a one an a two Fellows…..!

  • SueInCa : Lawrence Welk re-runs on tomorrow evening KT

  • choicelady : AB – when did you total your car!!!! Are you OK? Sorry you have to leave, but be well!

  • SueInCa : Night KT if you are real careful, tomorrow evening you can catch a re-run of Lawrence

  • SallyT : I like that one, too, CL.

  • AdLib : Night KT! Looking forward to the Music Thread!

  • KillgoreTrout : Well good Planet people, I think I’m off to work on this Weekend’s Music Thread! Take care all.

  • SueInCa : There really seems a fetish these days with bacon. I used to eat it all the time on so many things then people made me feel guilty. Now everyone is eating it, it seems and I gave it up.

  • choicelady : Sally – mine is the Huron Carol sung by Tom Jackson. Nothing more haunting, more beautiful.

  • kesmarn : I love car shopping! Have fun!

  • AdLib : AB – It’s BBQ! Night!

  • SueInCa : Please do BFF I can explain better in an email.

  • AlphaBitch : Nite to all. Keep outta the smoke, Ad. See y’all around. Since we totaled the Honda Hybrid, we are spending the weekend car shopping. And Ad: it’s not genius IQ. It’s BQ, and you know it!!

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, bacon IS brain food!

  • AdLib : Had to crunch a lot of data in my bacon studies.

  • kesmarn : Sue, maybe we can email a bit later and I’ll fill you in?

  • AdLib : AB – When it comes to bacon, I have a genius IQ.

  • SallyT : AB, you have a good night and just count your piggy toes!

  • SueInCa : Night AB

  • AlphaBitch : Bacon thermometers!!! Wow. It’s why you are our leader, Ad. What a brain.

  • kesmarn : We’ll email soon, Frennie!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams AB.

  • AdLib : Night AB!

  • SueInCa : Kes, I am sitting her watching all these comments and I truly do hope this is nothing serious…..seri ously

  • choicelady : AdLib – LOL!! When my husband had his angio, a friend and his friend where there. The doc was startled, and my friend said, without pause, “We’re here for the friends and family discount”. Even the cardio surgeon laughed!

  • AlphaBitch : Now I must go dream of bacon….sigh. I love it so much, I think I’ll put on lipstick before bed. Night all. Love you Kes.

  • AdLib : Can they make thermometers out of bacon? Tongue depressors?

  • kesmarn : As long as they don’t super-size me, AdLib.

  • SallyT : CL, we are singing from the same hymn book.

  • choicelady : AB – you are so correct! Bacon without crunch? Sacrilege!

  • kesmarn : With House, Sally’s gramma and a bacon IV what more do I need? I think I will be the centerfold in some kinda medical journal.

  • AdLib : “I’ll have a medical procedure, please.” “Would you like bacon on that?” “Yes, thank you.”

  • AlphaBitch : Silly Ad! Bacon MUST be taken orally!!!!!!!!

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, may HOUSE be with you! And his team!

  • AlphaBitch : I’ll hit Costco and buy all the maple flavor – 2 lbers I can for you, Frennie!

  • SallyT : Well, Kes, if you aren’t lifted physically, with enough drugs you will be high!

  • choicelady : Sally – I believe. There are more things in heaven and earth…I don’t think indigenous people are stupid at all and are far more in touch with what’s real than we Westerners. You and I have had that conversation about the REAL spiritual connections to The One, the Universe, the meaning of life. It wasn’t from the missionaries!

  • AdLib : Kes – Do they have bacon IVs?

  • kesmarn : You may be getting a frantic email from me, Frennie: “SEND BACON!”

  • AlphaBitch : Frennie – if you need any fat cells for a reverse liposuction (which is the procedure I am sure you are having – the “Save Me From Looking Like Hag Sister Sarah”), feel free to ask me to eat bacon for you!!!!

  • kesmarn : Many thanks, AdLib…I may be lifted right off the bed by all those uplifting thoughts. And that will scare everyone.

  • AdLib : AB – Then if you’re talking US AG, never happen. First, a Repub won’t win the WH for at least 10 years and by then Cruz will be old hat. Second, plenty of Dems in the Senate (and maybe Repubs) would filibuster his nom. Never happen.

  • SallyT : CL and Kes, she has sat beside me twice when there was little hope and she got me through. She is a powerful Medience Woman.

  • AlphaBitch : Love that advice, CL!!!

  • kesmarn : :lol: Yeah… I know WAY TOO MUCH about what goes on in those places, Frennie!

  • choicelady : kes – seek your revenge by being as obnoxious a patient as you can be and driving the docs,not the nurses, nuts.

  • AdLib : Kes, we will all be thinking of you and sending you all our best thoughts!

  • kesmarn : Thanks so much, KT.

  • AlphaBitch : A brave woman, Frennie, to be a nurse AND go into a horspital! My thoughts and prayers with you!

  • kesmarn : Frennie….that would be a boring life! I LIVE for challenge! (Which may be why I’m going in to the hospital??)

  • choicelady : Sally – your grandmother’s spirit is JUST the thing to get kes through! Lovely!

  • SueInCa : Adlib I agree with that analogy. The only thing I say is they will vote party line. They don’t have the imagination to think things through to a logical conclusion, they react

  • choicelady : kes – you HAVE to be OK because AB is giving you the tiara!

  • AlphaBitch : Nope Ad – I mean national John Ashcrofty AG. That’s his ambitchin’

  • AlphaBitch : Kes – if I let you keep the tiara and never again challenge you, will you be OK??

  • KillgoreTrout : My best wishes for ya Homie.

  • AdLib : AB – OH! You meant AG in TX? As bad as things are there under Perry, that would be kind of a death blow.

  • kesmarn : Sally, thank you!

  • kesmarn : I do appreciate that, c’lady! And no, BFF…I still have another week before admission day, so you’re stuck with me!

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is a very apt analogy, indeed.

  • SallyT : Kes, I will send my great grandmother’s spirit to sit with you. You will be fine.

  • AdLib : Night glenn!

  • AdLib : CL – It’s kind of a typical syndrome, called denial. I compared the GOP to crack addicts last week, the comparison works here too. When a crack addict looks in the mirror, they don’t always see how crack is destroying them and quit or go to rehab. They just shrug it off and do more crack to cheer themselves up. That’s the GOP, disintegrating due to their love of greed and plutocracy, spite for 99% of Americans, racism, bigotry and gun extremism…and their response to failing nationally is to go into denial, insist that it’s not who they are but how they’re communicating who they are and they just take another hit of the same poison.

  • SueInCa : Kes I will be praying for you too. Are you leaving now?

  • KillgoreTrout : Nothing serious I hope kes.

  • choicelady : Oh kes – of COURSE we will send you prayers, thoughts, energies. We want you to be OK in all ways!!!

  • kesmarn : Thankee, glenn!

  • choicelady : Sally – I think he’s correct that if his mother was a US citizen, so is he. I had classmates who were born overseas after WW II and are US citizens – had dual citizenship as kids but picked US as adults. They remained ‘natural born’ nonetheless. We are very generous about that – until now and until the contenders were, ummm, not Anglo Saxon.

  • glenn : Kes–I won’t forget about you. Take care and we’ll be thinking about you.

  • SueInCa : Good nite Glenn

  • kesmarn : G’night, glenn. Before you depart I just have to mention that I may be off the radar for a bit in a week or so. Got some medical stuff to attend to. So — you praying people — please do that. And don’t forget about me. I’ll be baaaack asap!

  • SallyT : See you later glenn and I am hoping the funnies don’t stop at the Weiner!

  • AlphaBitch : I hope you and Ad are right, CL. But I wouldn’t count him out. trust me – I see lots of Gohmerts here. Cruz is not one and is turning TX a deep red again before we get to purple.

  • glenn : CL–well I’m sure glad I saw the real one! P.S. How big is the fig leaf?

  • choicelady : glenn – good night and sweet dreams!

  • KillgoreTrout : Have aa great weekend glenn. I’ll be getting on the music thing shortly.

  • choicelady : glenn – don’t ever go to Buffalo, NY. The statue of David there has a fig leaf. I’m serious!

  • choicelady : AB – he MIGHT get a STATE AG position in TX, but not nationally.

  • SallyT : According to something missing in the Constitution, Cruz can run because his mother was a US citizen and they were only up in Canada working. I know, so was Obama’s mom but it is the same reason that Romney’s dad could run.

  • AlphaBitch : Don’t bet on it Ad. I wish, but he doesn’t have to run for AG. My sources “on the dark side” lead me to believe this is what he truly wants, and they are in step.

  • AdLib : Sue – Cruz’s mother is American though, he can legally run for President and I would love to see him do so and poison the GOP for an extra decade or two.

  • glenn : Okay, folks, I’m going now. Going to dream of bacon and naked statues. (LOVED that statue of David). Take care all. KT and Sally–as usual looking forward to music and funnies over the weekend!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think you’re correct. To be AG the GOP would have to win, and Cruz hasn’t a prayer. What shocks me is how little the GOP see of their decline. They are STILL sure if we only just wait, Romney will win the 2012.

  • AlphaBitch : Yes, CL. But he’ll find someone who will appoint him in return for TP votes. I swear it’s his motivation.

  • SallyT : Again, I ain’t that old!

  • AdLib : AB – Ted Cruz will never be AG or President, the GOP is already sealing their fate to not being a party that can win nationally with their display of spite for decency, the public welfare and following the will of the people. Not to mention their racism and campaign for plutocracy. Dems will win the WH again in 2016, none of the Repub noms could beat the top Dem noms. Cruz will never get the chance to be anything more than the assclown he is.

  • SueInCa : LOL you are as old as you feel sally

  • KillgoreTrout : No doubt Ad. I see so many on a daily basis, and they are NEVER satisfied. Professional whiners.

  • choicelady : Sally – I AM that old!

  • SallyT : I ain’t that old!!!!

  • choicelady : kes – I see Cruz as slavering over the nekkid statues.

  • SueInCa : LOL kt I used to eat it with almost anything.

  • AlphaBitch : I stand with KT. No point arguing with me cuz I am cah-razy about bacon!!!! Turkey bacon can’t cut it.

  • glenn : AB–but don’t we have to have a republican president before Cruz can be appointed AG?

  • kesmarn : Oh dear God…will Cruz be putting draperies and veils on the nekked statuary in DC like whatsisname did?

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, when it comes to bacon, I have no conscience.

  • SueInCa : Cruz was born in Canada. Hannity asked him about that and he said “I will let others worry about that”

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree, but the mean, warped, twisted people DO seem to hang on!

  • choicelady : AB – THAT is indeed the scariest thing I’ve heard about Cruz!

  • SueInCa : I hear you Sally, I hear me, I hear CL, I hear Glenn, and I really hear KT. We are all old lol

  • SallyT : Koch brothers are going for newspapers.

  • choicelady : Sue – I did NOT want to know that about the little pigs. I eat very little meat period because of that.

  • glenn : AB–okay, if you can take it, I can.

  • AlphaBitch : So want to hear something REALLY scary? Ted Cruz doesn’t really think/want to be President. He’s gunning for AG so he can work his mighty miracles of constitutional law and rule the land. MUCH SCARIER.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sorry AB, I missed the part about the diet!

  • AdLib : CL – I wonder if the nasty live longer because they dig their nails into their hatreds and won’t let go. It may be a longer life some of them lead but it’s a miserable, empty and grinding existence.

  • choicelady : KT and AB – eating bacon is a hard job but SOMEONE has to do it! KT has fallen on his sword for you, AB.

  • SueInCa : KT have you seen how they kill those little pigs that give you that bacon? I swear I will never touch a piece again

  • SallyT : Yes, but the older you get the less you are heard. Just sit them in the corner and let them droll.

  • choicelady : kes – thank you!

  • KillgoreTrout : OOPS!

  • AlphaBitch : Glenn – it’s Ok. KT is eating bacon for those who won’t.

  • kesmarn : I always love your replies, c’lady!

  • choicelady : kes – you do GREAT work on Twitter!

  • AlphaBitch : I think now, Frennie. Bain saved their asses once. Maybe the Koch Bros will step in this time – or Sheldon.

  • glenn : Oooh–KT–that’ s just mean! Didn’t AB say she was on a diet?

  • AdLib : Kes – So glad you like it, you’re doing great and our followers just keep growing and growing! Well done!

  • choicelady : All – the only argument I have against the FOX and Rush types dying off is that old nasty people seem to outlive good hearted ones. Bob Edgar, my friend and head of Common Cause and formerly Nat’l Council of Churches, just died at age 69 while the cretins keep on keepin’ on. Supposedly having a purpose in life lets you live longer, but HATE? You’d think that’d corrode you faster. Apparently not.

  • AlphaBitch : Ad: see below. Can’t negotiate with crazy.

  • kesmarn : Isn’t Clear Channel owned by Bain Capital, Frennie?

  • KillgoreTrout : AB, I just had bacon and waffles a little while ago. Mmmmmmm!

  • AdLib : If Obama came out tomorrow against death panels, The House under Boehner would propose establishing death panels. Have to use reverse psychology on these psychopaths.

  • SallyT : So, FOX will get someone speaking Spanish?

  • kesmarn : Thanks for the kind words about the Twitter feed, AdLib. It’s really kinda fun.

  • AlphaBitch : Clear Channel is headquartered here in San Antonio. I think they already had a bankruptcy/close to it filing once. Maybe the second time is the charm.

  • KillgoreTrout : Muy Bien. ?

  • glenn : Kes–the WHCD is only a “nerdprom” when palin doesn’t attend, and no one makes jokes about her. Bet she didn’t call it that when she attended the WHCD. What a waste of humanity that woman is.

  • choicelady : KT – yup. Death panels to keep taxes down. Perfectly good reason to kill people.

  • SueInCa : That was basketball player

  • AdLib : Kes – Yes, thanks to you posting that on our Twitter feed (Cheers!) I read that article too. Clear Channel is tanking thanks in “large” part to the boycott on advertising on Rush. Fox is going down too even though it still wins in the overall ratings. Let’s face it, the RW are on average much older and they are simply dying off at a rate faster than they can be replaced. And with the growth of Latinos as a percentage of the public, their numbers can only shrink. The GOP is doomed until or unless they change course and tack back towards the middle.

  • AlphaBitch : The smell of celery, Frennie. Something I can withstand….unl ike BACON!

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly my point CL.

  • kesmarn : crunch…crunch. ..crunch…Why not, Frennie?

  • AlphaBitch : Nada KT. Con Usted?

  • SueInCa : BFF she has a hard on for Obama. Her one night stand backetball player validated that

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s funny cl.

  • choicelady : Sally – yes, Terry Schiavo. It’s only wrong if it’s for the sake of the patient. It’s NEVER wrong if it’s to save taxpayers money. Bush ordered that neo-nates on life support could NOT be allowed to live if the parents had no insurance. I am NOT making that up.

  • SallyT : Thanks, glenn. That was the name. I couldn’t think of it.

  • AlphaBitch : Blov and I are dieting away. His pop tart stash has run out, and he’s standing here eating celery in my ear. NOT APPEALING.

  • glenn : Sally–Teresa Shiavo

  • KillgoreTrout : Que pasa AB.

  • kesmarn : Palin referred to the White House Correspondents’ Dinner as a “pathetic nerdprom.” She’s so jealous because she wasn’t invited — or missed.

  • SueInCa : Yes, Sally but it is different when THEY want to DNR

  • AlphaBitch : You can’t negotiate with crazy, and you can’t argue with stupid.

  • choicelady : KT – the National Guard and state guards ARE the militas!

  • SueInCa : Thank you AB

  • SallyT : Weren’t they all up in arms over what was her name in FL that the husband wanted to carry out her wishes and pull the plug? Shivo or something.

  • AlphaBitch : So here are my new mottos:

  • glenn : Hey AB!

  • AlphaBitch : Frennie! And Sue, Sally, KT, glenn and any others.

  • choicelady : Hey AB – GREAT to see you here!

  • KillgoreTrout : At the time the 2nd was written, there was a need for militias. Today, not so much. That’s why we have the National Guard.

  • AlphaBitch : Hey Ad!

  • SueInCa : What? AB? We are the OTHERS? lol

  • kesmarn : Frennie! How are you?

  • AdLib : Hey AB!

  • choicelady : KT – yes, Welk was from ND. He wasn’t the brightest bulb and once, reading his cue cards, said “We’re bringing you music tonight from World War Eye Eye…

  • glenn : Ad–now that’s just not fair about palin. They still love her at CPAC, and she’s one of the featured speakers at the NRA conference this week.

  • AlphaBitch : NRA Sucks. Is that the password? Here for just a minute – hey CL! Nice to see you and the others.

  • SueInCa : He played the clarinet, the drums, the sax and the trombone. He was also a bandleader in Mexico City. My brother popped in on him and he made him stay at his home for two weeks

  • AdLib : CL – Oh yeah, the RWs were all so in love with and fantasizing about Palin in 2008. Now, in 2013 when her hatreds and greed have been deteriorating her appearance, they show no loyalty and move on. Fitting, I think.

  • choicelady : kes – I saw that, too. Nice to know our boycotts are having an impact!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, that’s pretty cool. I always wonder why LW had such an accent, being born in North Dakota, I believe.

  • choicelady : Sue – how cool your husband’s uncle played in the band! Which instrument?

  • kesmarn : I read today that Clear Channel radio is losing money at a pretty good clip, too, due to the boycott of Limbaugh’s sponsors. If FOX and CC are taking a hit, that can only be a good thing for sanity/rationali ty.

  • SallyT : I think FOX is still number one is ratings for TV. The younger people spread out their sources for news.

  • SueInCa : YUP they have panels who can decide on DNR’s. If I can find the article again, I will post it in OT

  • glenn : Ad–yup. I think it’s because they don’t understand that “well-regulated ” means laws. They think it means you drill and practice with your weapons a lot!

  • SueInCa : KT My husband still watches them. His uncle played in the orchestra

  • AdLib : Sue – What are the TX death panels, for medical care?

  • choicelady : Sue – DEATH PANELS? What are those in good ol’ Texas?

  • SueInCa : Poor Palin spouting off about death panels when her good buddy Perrytale’s state has them

  • AdLib : glenn – Not only that, the racists have only read part of the 2nd Amendment, skipping over “A well regulated militia…”

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, my mom still watches the old reruns, regularly, like clock work.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the FOX viewers lusted after Palin? Not so much anymore since she got so uglied up with bad living. The FOX fox is loosing her luster.

  • glenn : Now, Ad, I don’t know why you’re picking on foxso-callednews . After all, they’re number one in ratings!

  • SueInCa : Adlib did you know Texas has death panels LOL I almost spit out my coffee when I read that

  • SallyT : Oh, I get it now.

  • KillgoreTrout : So true glenn. Any anti gun or anti repub speech is not permitted.

  • AdLib : Sue – Don’t forget how the RW lusted after Palin too. The most shallow, obviously ignorant candidate and they had to proclaim starbursts coming from her eyes and how brilliant she was…all because they fantasized about having sex with her (that’s an unappetizing thought!). Repubs are so reptilian brained, just appeal to hate, fear or sexual desire and they’ll do whatever you want. So of course Fox has so many mindless blondes trying to turn on the RWs.

  • SueInCa : Lawrence welk drew the old folks sally

  • kesmarn : :lol: Just kidding Sally…I meant that FOX viewers are in the same age-range as the fans of Lawrence Welk Show re-runs. (Roughly the 92- 107 group)

  • choicelady : All – we do have the “Smith Act” that is part of the Alien REgistration Act, but the SCOTUS rulings of 1957 said that merely SAYING you want to dissolve the US government was NOT actionable. The Smith Act remains on the books, but it is never used. «link»

  • glenn : KT–no, they know about the 1st amendment–but only as it applies to them. People on the left must be respectful at all times to all republicans/tpar tiers, but people on the right are allowed to call President Obama any name they want.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, it’s all those bubbles!

  • SallyT : sorry, I don’t get it, Kes??

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, I think they skipped the 1st amendment too.

  • SueInCa : I will be back………… ……lol funny BFF

  • kesmarn : Same demographic as Lawrence Welk…it was bound to happen, Sally!

  • SueInCa : glenn I know they fall off a thread too

  • SallyT : But Fox is losing viewership because their audience is dying off.

  • glenn : AdLib–The racists have read the Bill of Rights only to the second amendment. They stopped after that. It’s funny, every time I bring up the 12th and 14th amendments with the “equal protection” clause, they never reply.

  • SueInCa : Sally I am talking about their perception of what happens, that could be very far from reality.

  • choicelady : Sue – tsk, tsk you are SO cynical about the FOX viewer’s motivation!!! That’s seriously funny!!!

  • SueInCa : The right watches fox news to look up a woman’s dress sitting center sofa, they are not interested in truth, only their truth

  • SallyT : Are you kidding? Washington DC is more prepared than any place in this country for attacks. Domestic or otherwise. No way those Congressmen are going to get their asses shot or bombed.

  • choicelady : glenn – don’t think so. You’d be over 200 years old! I am not sure, but I think we dissolved those laws early 19th century.

  • KillgoreTrout : Really CL? I didn’t know that. Maybe we should get them back.

  • SueInCa : Sally it is not reality that the right believes you know that.

  • glenn : CL–oh–guess I’m just showing my age again. :)

  • AdLib : glenn – First of all, all Americans HAVE Miranda rights whether they’re read or not. The purpose of reading them is to create a starting point for the prosecution to be able to use what he says against him. Secondly, the racists on HP who claim that one’s religion or reason for committing a crime strips them of Constitutional protections have never read the Bill of Rights.

  • SueInCa : I agree Adlib but seriously I am not sure anyone in DC knows how to take things seriously enough to plan to nip something like this in the bud. I just don’t know.

  • choicelady : Sally – I SO hope you are correct about that!

  • choicelady : glenn – I don’t think there is anything called sedition anymore.

  • SallyT : Oh come on! No one would fire on them! They may be stupid but they aren’t going to take on the weapons that would be facing them. And, no way they could get away with saying they were fired on first. There are way to many cameras that would be on them.

  • choicelady : glenn – I know, the wingnut Senators who want to put this BB into Gitmo are appalling. He is being handled properly.

  • glenn : CL–Then isn’t it sedition?

  • KillgoreTrout : I think the feds handled the Miranda question pretty well. They are allowed to question a suspect if there is a threat of imminent danger to the public. Which there certainly was/is.

  • choicelady : KT – I don’t think we have sedition laws and haven’t since the early 19th century?

  • glenn : CL–I know that the BB has had his rights read to him. Many people were saying he shouldn’t have had his rights read to him.

  • AdLib : Sue – Agreed, which is why I mentioned below, I wouldn’t want such a confrontation to take place. If it did, the aggressors are clearly the gun nuts marching on DC, illegally armed and firing first on our military or police. The blowback would be a rude awakening of Americans to the crazies on the RW they’d been ignoring and what anti-American lunatics they are. However, I would also expect some of the most insane on the RW to plot revenge terrorism like McVeigh. So no, we don’t want this to happen but if it does, the RW nutjobs would become outcasts.

  • SueInCa : I am with you KT and just like in 63 the FBI and the SS will pay for it if things blow

  • choicelady : glenn – I think treason is only aiding and abetting a foreign government. This, sadly, falls under free speech. That said – I just bet since he’s public with this, that he is being monitored, and I am FINE with that.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think there are levels of sedition these days that are really being ignored or over looked.

  • choicelady : Sally – it’s not what it does to them. It’s what is good for our country, and abiding by our laws and due process strengthens us. Sure the individuals will scream no matter what – but it’s the other people who have to be reminded the system works.

  • SallyT : The mayor could and probably would call in the Reserves to block entrance.

  • SueInCa : Ok scratch the WH, the federal government, let local police handle and then National guard if it gets out of hand. That way, there is a trail of evidence

  • kesmarn : Right, glenn. This guy is crossing a line, to say the least!

  • glenn : Kes–OMG–I believe in the first amendment, but isn’t that treason, or at the very least “inciting violence”? Why isn’t that man being arrested and read his Miranda rights?

  • SallyT : Who said bring the White House into it?

  • choicelady : glenn – he has had them read, and he’s got an attorney, and he is being handled properly. Kate Martin, Ex.Dir. of the Center for NAtional Security Studies – THE critic of our policies on terrorism etc. – has lauded Obama for how he’s handling this case.

  • SallyT : Really, CL, leaves them nothing to say? They will say everything no matter. I think they need to experience what they think others should.

  • KillgoreTrout : You are absolutely right glenn. It’s the gun nuts and government conspiracy lunatics that go these killing sprees.

  • glenn : CL–That’s exactly the argument I’ve been using with people on HP for why we should have read the Boston bomber his Miranda rights. They claim because he’s a Muslim he has no rights–even though he’s an American citizen.

  • AdLib : glenn – Yep, but the act of firing on OUR American troops is an attack on all of us, they would be villainized and hated immediately.

  • SueInCa : Sally it is a situation that needs to be treated very carefully. They simply cannot be allowed to break the law in DC and should be warned beforehand. Leave it to the mayor of the city to do the warning. I think that is the best way to deal with it anyway, leave the WH out of it.

  • choicelady : Sue – I had to give up reading the racist garbage on other sites. It has made my head explode. I am horrified.

  • kesmarn : Here’s a bit of the article that Sue linked to regarding the so-called leader of this “protest”– “Since then, he’s taken his show “Adam vs. The Man” to the Internet, and seems to have become increasingly radicalized. “It’s time to abolish the US federal government,” he tweeted yesterday. Today he tweeted this: When the government comes to take your guns, you can shoot government agents, or submit to slavery. — Adam Kokesh (@adamkokesh) May 3, 2013”

  • choicelady : Sally – NOPE – not Gitmo but handled in US courts. That would prove we are all we say we are with respect to rights. One always does better taking the high road, esp. with fools! Leaves them nothing to say.

  • AdLib : glenn – Sorry for the techno-nerd stuff. I’ll just agree that restarting your browser is usually the best fixer for problems on Vox.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, these nuts could be vaporized and never know what hit them.

  • SueInCa : I am telling you their racism runs very deep. Go on FB for a few days, the trolls are out there and even simple right wingers go off on gun issues. It is scary. I think Adlib that one person could jump off and all hell would break loose.

  • glenn : Ad–the gun nuts already are anti-American terrorists, in my opinion.

  • SallyT : Yes and if they fired on the government they should be thrown in Gitmo!

  • choicelady : KT – LOL!!!

  • KillgoreTrout : Awww Shucks CL.

  • glenn : Ad–sorry, I don’t know what my “cache” is. I’m pretty sure I don’t have java, either. (I do know what that is).

  • AdLib : Sue – Do you think gun nuts would fire on our military though? The instant they did, they would become anti-American terrorists.

  • choicelady : Hey – is Alpha in the house? I see her in the balcony!

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly Ad. If they ever saw a ddemonstration of the military’s power, they would change their stance PDQ. It’s simply awesome, and not in a good way.

  • AdLib : glenn – Welcome back! Sometimes the problem can be a cache or Java issue. Closing your browser after clearing your cache should usually solve a problem with commenting on Vox.

  • choicelady : Sue – that is my fear. There are too many ready to believe that if it’s not Black Helicopters, it IS a Black president.

  • glenn : CL–I do believe they’re all fools–but they do like to become matyrs also! Kinda like those muslim folks!

  • SallyT : Waco was cowards, they killed themselves and all those kids! That is pretty much cowards to me.

  • SueInCa : My lips are sealed, in the words of Abba?

  • SueInCa : Adlib I think they would use it as an excuse the government attacked them and the know nothing right winger will believe it

  • KillgoreTrout : Sssshhhhh! Don’t tell anyone Sue.

  • choicelady : Sue – Mozilla’s good, too.

  • choicelady : ADLib – LOL!!! I hope you’re right, but never EVER forget Ruby Ridge and Waco or, worse, OKC. They aren’t all cowards and fools.

  • SueInCa : Mozilla

  • kesmarn : I’m with you on Chrome, c’lady.

  • choicelady : KT – wow – I KNEW there was a lot to like about you!

  • AdLib : CL – The one thing about bullies though, is that they are cowards. I am pretty confident that if gun nuts marched on DC illegally and the military confronted them, they would wet their pants and run away crying like Boehner slamming a car door on his thumb.

  • SueInCa : KT I thought you were a Mooslim

  • choicelady : glenn – that happens to me a lot on IE. I use Chrome now, and it’s MUCH better.

  • SallyT : Oh, come on, the government doesn’t need to fire on them, just show them the truth about what they are up against.

  • kesmarn : Welcome back, glenn!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I know. What a freaking socialist, Marxist Communist liberul I am.

  • glenn : Sorry, folks, I was gone for a while. I couldn’t my comments to “post”, so I had to log out and log back in again. I’m baaack!

  • choicelady : KT – they all live thinking they will re-enact “Red Dawn” and save the world from us secularists, wrong Christians, and especially from that Muslim Socialist.

  • kesmarn : Wow..Sue, just reading that Salon article… This Kokesh guy sounds like bad news.

  • glenn : Sue–Saw on Chris Hayes tonight that Kerry is supposed to be in Russia on Monday and Tuesday. That’s also where I saw about Israel shooting in Syria.

  • SueInCa : CL that is my point about DC exactly. They are angry and looking for blood from someome

  • AdLib : Sally – I would like the gun nuts to be squashed and get the message that their fantasy of overthrowing the US is absurd but in terms of tamping down domestic terrorists on the RW, it’s probably better if that wasn’t to happen.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, that is always the default response when it really comes down to their reasons for wanting assault rifles. Everytime, it boils down to that asinine reason. Like they could defeat the most powerful military in the world, with small arms fire.

  • choicelady : Sue – I know. It’s very scary. Mikey was on FOX last night, and I’m waiting for retaliation against us.

  • SueInCa : It is my understanding they are supplying the government with weapons and help. Iran – Syria. Russia is also on the side of Syria

  • AdLib : CL – Good point, Israel has made a surprising amount of bad choices in recent years, poorly judging situations. This is clearly another one, a stupid and dangerous one. Assad is horrible but he is not attacking Israel, this is not going to be seen as justified by any other nation, they have opened a very dangerous door now.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I fear that if the armed marchers WERE met with opposition by the military or our folks, it would give them the justification to say they were set upon by the ugly Big Government and Radicals. It would be a dicey time, dangerous outcomes.

  • SueInCa : Washington DC – Civil War, Israel – now

  • choicelady : KT – that’s the problem with being rational – you stymie the other side. How ‘unfair’ of you!

  • SallyT : I think she is talking about the Civil War, at least in the comment I am answering.

  • SueInCa : But CL the level of hate of this president alone, is terrifying. Not to mention Gingrich in a speech in San Diego a few years ago planted the seed of ridding this country of secular humanists

  • choicelady : Sue – would Iran get involved over an act directed at Syria? I don’t know those alliances.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue, it’s an old habit. They never answer when I ask that particular question.

  • SallyT : AdLib, maybe they should be confronted with the truth. The truth about arming themselves against the government. They don’t have enough guns to take on WashDC.

  • choicelady : Sally – Sue’s talking about 1967 I think? Or maybe not. I am confused…

  • SueInCa : I think it is a dangerous move by Israel. Now Iran can use it as an excuse to launch rockets towards Israel.

  • choicelady : Sue – that is EXACTLY what happened in 1967 and 1983 and many smaller incidents. They fire, there is retaliation, and they cry victim. It’s not working in the world of instant communications.

  • SallyT : It was the Civil War, Sherlock, that was the Northern Aggression according to the new Prez of the NRA.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think there should be a march, with toy AR15s.

  • AdLib : Sally – I can see some of the gun nuts excited about marching on DC with guns but their romanticized vision of it would indeed be met by pepper spray, militarized police and military vehicles. They would be crushed far harder than OWS.

  • choicelady : Sue – I just read that on Twitter. Someone said it was good because it means there will be only war instead of their firing on Iran and bringing Armageddon. In this insane world, you take what you can on the bright side.

  • SueInCa : I think the point is that they want to force some kind of confrontation so they can claim they were fired upon. Didn’t the same thing happen with the civil war?

  • SueInCa : Israel has also fired on Syria

  • choicelady : KT – stop being RATIONAL!

  • KillgoreTrout : True glenn. I always ask them if the Colorado shooter, the Sanghook shooter, and all the others if they were in a well regulated militia when they murdered people.

  • SueInCa : Here is the article in Salon «link»

  • SallyT : I don’t think they are going to get to close to the Capital or the White House with guns. I am sure they will be meant by all those tanks that we are getting that we don’t really need out of Ohio.

  • kesmarn : Do they plan to fire on Fort Sumter while they’re at it?

  • choicelady : KT – religious mania is a seriously dangerous thing. For kids if not for adults. I knew an anti-abortion zealot who got locked up for his mania – and it was sad. He was kind of a sweet guy actually. I told him Jesus did not require that of him, and it helped – he was becoming OCD in his devotion to ridiculous rituals.

  • AdLib : Sue – If there was such a gun nut march on DC, I would hope to see an anti-gun march at the same time that dwarfs theirs…and represents reality in America.

  • choicelady : glenn – what could POSSIBLY go wrong with a bunch of goobers marching on DC with loaded guns? Seriously – what? Uhhhh…

  • glenn : Sue–what are they going to load them with? Toilet paper?

  • KillgoreTrout : I agree CL. Did you hear about the couple that are being charged because they let one child die rather seek medical help because they believed prayer would save the child, and two years later, they let the same thing happen, for the same reason. Is that not a form of insanity?

  • SueInCa : I will find the post I saw and put it on here. BRB

  • glenn : Sue–you’re kidding right? Who in their right mind would call for a “march” with loaded weapons? Can’t see anything bad coming from that, can we?

  • SueInCa : LOL Sally I meant illegally loaded

  • choicelady : Sue – I’d heard something but no details. Those 44% of GOP looking for armed resistance to Obama are in for a wee surprise…

  • SallyT : Sue, illegal weapons? They can’t get legal ones?

  • kesmarn : Right, AdLib. They only had one chance to do the right thing the first time.

  • SueInCa : Agreed Adlib

  • AdLib : Kes – I think he’s right, it will be brought back up for a vote and that drama will be very fascinating to watch. I don’t think Ayotte, Flake, etc. get out from under the cloud of this vote though, even if they vote for it the second time around. Their negatives may lessen but they won’t get positives for looking like pols desperate to save their re-elections.

  • choicelady : glenn – yes, the preface to the ‘right to bear arms’ just gets left out.

  • glenn : Sue–hope you enjoy the 9-year-old. My granddaughter is 9 and she cracks me up!

  • SueInCa : Did anyone hear about the guy who is trying to get people to march on Washington DC with illegal loaded weapons? They are looking for a confrontation.

  • kesmarn : I was just going to say the same thing, glenn. What about that “well regulated” thingy?

  • choicelady : Sue – you will definitely need lunch and a drink after that! LOL! You’re an excellent grandmother!

  • choicelady : KT – I say you argue for ALL weapons or face the fact that we have the right as part of society to demand a control on TYPES of weapons.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue!

  • glenn : KT–The 2nd also says, “a well regulated” militia, but the NRAbots never mention that part.

  • SueInCa : Same here CL, next week I have a 9 year old 24/7 until Sunday…

  • choicelady : Sue – I am so sorry to have dropped off the face of the earth. I will write off line and see if we can figure a time to have me get the book to you. It’s been NUTS!

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s my big point, CL when arguing with AR!% fanatics. Where do you draw the line? The 2nd only says “arms,” but today, arms are really varied, and powerful. Much more so than a musket.

  • glenn : Sue–glad to hear you’re away from the smoke and ash that AdLib is experiencing.

  • SueInCa : Oh my I am so sorry CL

  • choicelady : SUE!!!! GREAT to see you here!

  • AdLib : One problem though about stopping the NRA…is The House, the knuckle draggers there who come from red districts can vote with the NRA and not be hurt in re-election.

  • choicelady : KT -the vast majority of Christians don’t believe that crap. It’s really the province of the ‘salvationist’ thread – evangelicals and Pentecostals. Others see God as a presence, life force, whatever that helps us get through – manifested in community, in hope, in courage, in strength. We would NEVER say a child was ‘called home’ or is ‘in a better place’. That’s despicable.

  • SueInCa : I think it depends on their home visits, lol. Ayotte got blasted

  • glenn : Ad–When “surfing” through channels today, I think I heard something about Reid waiting for just that time to bring it back up again. By the time I got back to that channel, the discussion was over.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, Tomasky thinks it will be brought up again and the next time there’s a decent chance it will pass.

  • SueInCa : Hwello Kes, Watson, AL, Glenn, KT beautiful night here in SF bay area

  • kesmarn : Hey, BFF!

  • AdLib : Hey Sue!

  • glenn : Hi Sue.

  • SallyT : Hi Sherlock!

  • SueInCa : Good evening

  • AdLib : Do you think the universal background check bill will be brought up again before the 2014 elections? If so, do you think it will succeed?

  • KillgoreTrout : Really CL? It wouldn’t actually surprise me.

  • choicelady : Sally – of COURSE they should feel guilt, but I think it’s part of the human condition to find ways, at least in public, NOT to be consumed by it.

  • glenn : KT–I agree about the lawsuit. I wonder how many people know that gun manufacturers can’t be sued. The least it would do if someone brought a suit, would be to bring out that incredible fact!

  • SallyT : I am sorry, CL, but I think they need to feel the guilt! They got the gun for the little boy. He didn’t buy it. They didn’t lock it up.

  • choicelady : glenn – I think you’re right about the dismissal of the public employee as unimportant compared to the “constitutional ” right to have any old weapon you want. So what about flame throwers and grenade launchers? Why not deregulate ALL weapons???

  • AdLib : CL – That is sad but so powerful, I was thinking the same thing. Is the only thing that stops a 5 year old with a gun, a 2 year old with a gun? Doesn’t that finally destroy the asinine nature of this ridiculous proposition?

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, it might have been Ad Lib. A lawsuit would spark a lot of attention, even if it didn’t win. Negative attention, I hope.

  • kesmarn : Colbert commented something like: “How dare those aggressive gun violence victims attack innocent members of Congress? This must stop!”

  • glenn : KT–I agree–Carrey is absolutely spot on in that video.

  • SallyT : their not there. I am having trouble with that tonight! It is Weiner’s fault!

  • choicelady : KT – no one in their right mind thinks if there were a sentient God, he/she/it would want children to die to be able to ‘call them home’. It’s disgusting, but it’s ALL that family has left. The guilt otherwise would be intolerable.

  • glenn : CL–the only thing that stops a bad boy with a gun is a good girl with a gun?

  • SallyT : Right, KT, I think that the aunt saying that makes her see herself as rising above it but she is stupid! Jesus doesn’t want babies shot to death by there baby brother!

  • glenn : Ad–I think I have the reason Ayotte answered the way she did. After all, the gun dealers are “private” businesses, and the principal was one of those “evil” public service employees. Isn’t that the gop “logic”?

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, it is Carrey at his best.

  • choicelady : ADLib – this is the one thing the idiots never answer – what about the victims? Someone asked if the 2-year-old should have been armed to protect herself against her 5-year-old brother.

  • kesmarn : That was a powerful moment I imagine, AdLib.

  • KillgoreTrout : A better place? God and guns strike again.

  • choicelady : Sally – you get NO argument from me, but I understand this incredible need for some kind of comforting thought. Self delusion is powerful in times of stress.

  • AdLib : I think the daughter of the principal who was killed at Newtown really nailed Ayotte and the NRA when she asked why they were only concerned about the harm that might be done to gun dealers and not the harm done to her mother when she was shot.

  • KillgoreTrout : Maybe, I can’t recall.

  • SallyT : I know, CL, but I found that stupid. She is DEAD at 2 years of age. And being DEAD in Jesus’ arms is a better place???? Then shoot yourself and go to the better place, too! That is just stupid!

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, CL, it’s funny as hell. I’m sure it’s on youtube.

  • choicelady : kes – yes, blood makes an AWFUL mess.

  • kesmarn : So unsightly…

  • choicelady : glenn – yes, that is true. Gun makers cannot be sued.

  • KillgoreTrout : True CL. They’ll just look the other way and simply call it just an accident. Bringing that gun into the hands of a five year old was no accident.

  • choicelady : kes – apparently they don’t quite trust their members, you know, like the guy at the Houston airport yesterday. Can’t be having that happen in their precious building.

  • choicelady : Sally – seriously, what OTHER comfort can the aunt get than to think the baby is in the arms of Jesus? I am shocked by it, but I DO understand the need.

  • glenn : KT–but didn’t someone say here on VOX that gun manufacturers have “immunity” from the products they sell? That they can’t be sued if someone uses their product(s) incorrectly?

  • kesmarn : NRA is pro-life/anti-gu n when it comes to their own then, c’lady?

  • kesmarn : Michael Tomasky pronounced the NRA DOA in his latest column.

  • choicelady : kes – remember the NRA won’t permit anyone into their DC building WITH A GUN, not EVEN a five year old!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn, I think you’re right about the name. Thoroughly insane and very disgusting. Maybe someone will sue them big time.

  • choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! Yup the NRA is on a roll – downhill and fast!

  • kesmarn : :lol: Sally, that scenario of the gun manufacturer in a room of armed 5 year olds… :lol:

  • SallyT : Yes glenn and the aunt said that the baby was in a better place now. REALLY! SHE’S DEAD! SHE NEVER REALLY LIVED!

  • glenn : KT–I saw it and it was hilarious! Was it you who put the link here on the Planet?

  • choicelady : KT – haven’t seen that, but it sounds GREAT!

  • AdLib : So, we have gun nut being anti-North pro-slavery, defending 5 year olds’ rights to shoot 2 year olds, celebrating lobbying to defeat gun control that 90% of Americans want and having a convention featuring cartoon GOP villains. How do these guys not fail?

  • KillgoreTrout : Have you guys seen Jim Carrey’s video, “Cold Dead Hands?” It’s hialrious, and also had the benefit of getting FOX news all riled up.

  • choicelady : glenn – that’s the brand name, OK – Crickets. How precious.

  • glenn : CL–hell, the sheriff said the accident was just “natural consequences” of gun ownership. I don’t think he realized the irony of his statement.

  • choicelady : kes – Yes. She is secretly Taliban.

  • choicelady : KT – no jury would ever convict those parents in that part of KY.

  • glenn : KT–“who in their right mind would give a 5 year old a gun?” Crickets, that’s who. Isn’t that what those “cute, little” guns are called. Or, isn’t that the manufacturer? It’s not only these parents who gave their 5 year old a gun–not sure if I have the figure right or not, but I think there were about 30,000 of them sold!

  • SallyT : Yeah, I think the manufacturer of those guns for kids should be locked in a room with 2 dozen 5 years old with loaded guns and see how safe they feel!

  • kesmarn : I hear that Ayotte also said that there’s no reason to vote for equal rights for women because “we already have enough laws.” Pro-gun. Anti-woman. Is she secretly taliban?

  • choicelady : Sally – after Heston’s pronouncement, CA bumper stickers popped up: “I play the accordian and I vote” and “You can have my accordian when you pry it from my cold, dead hand!” Made Heston look really dumb!

  • KillgoreTrout : What will Disney think of next?

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, that’s a pretty good indicator.

  • kesmarn : KT, it was a bad situation and now that 5 year old has to grow up with the knowledge of what happened. Really sad.

  • SallyT : Yes, CL, I saw an old clip of him today on the TV. He is a NUT WITH A GUN!

  • choicelady : AdLib – Ayotte never thought she’d be on the receiving end of criticism!

  • glenn : Ad–anything we can do to help Ayotte’s breakdown occur sooner?

  • choicelady : glenn – now that’s scary – that Heston and LaPierre are both zombies!

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, how sad for those two kids. Who in their right mind would give a 5 year old a gun? I hope the parents are brought up on charges. Criminal negligence would be a good start.

  • AdLib : Does Kelly Ayotte look like she’s about to have a nervous breakdown or what?

  • glenn : CL–maybe LaPierre and Charlton Heston are one and the same. Did anyone ever see them in the same place together?

  • choicelady : Sally – the new NRA prez called it the war of Northern Aggression?????? WTF?

  • kesmarn : Stay safe — you and Mrs. Lib and Lil Lib and pets!

  • choicelady : KT – I think LaPierre has a different position from being president of the NRA. I think he died years ago, and we are seeing his animitronic or embalmed self.

  • AdLib : Kes – No, 30 miles away is quite far away from the fire but the smoke (and ashes) are to be avoided.

  • KillgoreTrout : I hope you have air conditioning. That might help.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Homie and friends!

  • choicelady : BTW – HI kes!

  • SallyT : I don’t know the new prez name but he once referred to the Civil War not as that but as the Northern Aggression. So, he is going to be a charmer.

  • AdLib : Hey Kes!

  • kesmarn : Oh dear, AdLib, is your home in danger?

  • glenn : Hi Kes–Love it!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie what’s up?

  • choicelady : kes – that IS a conundrum, isn’t it? Well the Right always did decry sex but loved them their violence, so from that warped perspective I guess it makes sense.

  • KillgoreTrout : Is LaPierre history now? I sure hope so, what a lunatic.

  • KillgoreTrout : He’s a guy named Jim Porter. Don’t know much about him yet.

  • AdLib : KT – I’m about 30 miles away from the fire but the wind has blown the smoke our way, have to stay inside, very unhealthy to breathe.

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, kids! So 15 is too young for contraception, but age 5 is just about right for gun ownership?

  • choicelady : glenn – yes, I am not sure that selling plaid and pink guns to toddlers is a Constitutional issue.

  • SallyT : They’re in trouble

  • glenn : CL–It’s interesting to watch the gun nuts try to defend the sale of guns to 5-year-olds. I think the “game” is pretty much “up” as far as “constitutional rights”.

  • SallyT : Yes, I think there are in trouble period.

  • choicelady : Sally – anorexia and bulemia will take their toll. Palin is getting frantic from her lack of relevance.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think the media is finally doing it’s job when it comes to reporting gun deaths. Everyday there is a death resulting from gunfire.

  • choicelady : KT – who is their new prez? I once dated a guy who went on to be their PR person nationally. We’ve not spoken since.

  • SallyT : I saw briefly a picture of Palin down there and she looks terrible! Scary looking! She certainly isn’t as attractive IN LOOKs as she was when she was running with McCain.

  • choicelady : Sally – I think the House NRA duds are in trouble. The Senate not as much, but the whole nation is changing. We have HAD it.

  • choicelady : glenn – Ayotte is in a world of hurt with her reactions!

  • KillgoreTrout : They do have a new president.

  • SallyT : Most of those guys don’t have to worry until 2016, not 2014, on getting re elected. That is a lot of time.

  • glenn : Ad–I love it! And now all the cowards who voted with the NRA are also refusing to have dinner with their constituents who invited them. And watching Ayotte lie about the “federal registry” in response to the daughter of the principal of Sandy Hook was just disgusting!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I must say I’m shocked. Pleasantly so, but I never thought I’d live to see NRA nuts DOWN in the polls over these issues. I do think, esp. since they elected NO one in 2012, that the NRA is on its last gasp.

  • KillgoreTrout : That would be great Ad, but they still have a lot of power.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well Ad, I sure hope you and yours are safe. How close to the city of LA are you?

  • AdLib : So, what do you think about the anti-background check pols tanking in the polls and those who voted for it getting boosts? Might the days of the NRA be over soon?

  • choicelady : KT – logical reaction.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ha!CL, you said it before I did. I thought of it though.

  • choicelady : Sally – I don’t think it was Weiner’s ass that got him in trouble…

  • choicelady : glenn – Yup.

  • SallyT : I don’t know if it is a consipracy, glenn, but it is a pain in the ASS! No pun intented!

  • glenn : CL–Great minds think alike–even in the gutter!

  • choicelady : A boner groaner?

  • AdLib : CL – The rain may come too late to help, the fire will likely have done its damage by then.

  • KillgoreTrout : Yeah, that is a groaner!

  • choicelady : See? glenn and I had the exact same reaction.

  • glenn : KT–groan!

  • choicelady : KT – GROAN. Oldest male joke in the world. But funny!

  • KillgoreTrout : Someone once asked me if I smoked during sex. I said, I don’t know, I never looked. ;)

  • choicelady : glenn – at least up here there are rumors of rain early next week. Not a lot, but enough to bring down temps, dampen the ground. That helps us – but I don’t think it will help AdLib’s area at all.

  • SallyT : The funny thing is Weiner is the starting and ended point to the post! Sometimes that is true in life in general……… .

  • glenn : Hey Sally–do you think it’s a weiner consipracy that’s causing your problems?

  • glenn : Ad–glad to hear your mom and my neice are away from the fires.

  • choicelady : ADLib – whew – glad to hear she’s all right!

  • AdLib : CL – No problem for my mom, the fire is quite a distance away from her, thanks for asking!

  • choicelady : Oh Sally – how awful! I remember that sort of thing happened to Cher when she was doing the Daily Planet. These are the things I HATE about tech – and no explaining it.

  • glenn : Hi KT–the subject has been changed, but when I got on line, Ad, Sally and CL were talking about Weiner being “up” in his pix.

  • AdLib : Hey KT! Evening!

  • choicelady : KT! Great to see you!

  • SallyT : CL, you will understand all this on Sunday. To explain briefly all the cartoons I have posted above the Weiner one are there and all the cartoons (like 40!) below the Weiner (insert laughter) are gone! I don’t know why and AdLib is looking into it. Everything I added last night that were inserted above the Weiner cartoon are there but all the cartoons I added last night and all the ones from days before that were under that cartoon are GONE! Yes, I am yelling! But, AdLib is going to help me after the VOX is over.

  • glenn : CL–thanks for the info. Think I’ll shoot my neice an email tomorrow, just to say “hello”.

  • choicelady : AdLib – how’s your mother?

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s up Planeteers?

  • AdLib : glenn – There are fires in the northern part of LA and a distance east of LA towards Palm Springs. Carlsbad (an area I really like) is near San Diego and as far as I know, there aren’t any fires down there!

  • choicelady : glenn – to the best of my knowledge, the San Diego/Carlsbad area is OK. They are over 100 miles from the fires plaguing AdLib.

  • glenn : CL–sorry to hear about your “hot” problems.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’d say I was in a sensible area, but I’m about three blocks from the American River with grassland between, and we have fired almost every year, too. Just a whole lot less space so a whole lot more manageable. Please take due care of you and your family. I’m glad you know how dangerous smoke can be – some people don’t.

  • AdLib : Hey glenn! Actually, these fires happen cyclically, every number of years, it’s a natural phenomenon but here, as in flood areas in other states, developers build in areas that are hit by the same disasters…and the cost of that is borne by everyone else who lives in sensible areas.

  • glenn : Ad–sorry to say I don’t know a lot about CA geography. My neice lives in Carlsbad, which I’m pretty sure is outside of San Diego. Are the fires there, too?

  • choicelady : Sally – YIKES! That may be TMI – or they already burned right off.

  • choicelady : glenn – I’m OK I think, but I’m having some kind of reaction to the heat, and it’s not even BAD here. Does not bode well for the summer! But it’s NOTHING compared to AdLib’s conditions.

  • SallyT : He doesn’t have on any pants!

  • choicelady : Sally – you sure? Weiner’s hot pants didn’t burst into flame?

  • glenn : Hi CL! How are you?

  • AdLib : CL – Sorry to hear that! The heat was pretty overwhelming today, not a big surprise the fires followed. So little rain this year in LA, this is what happens.

  • SallyT : AdLib, I got pretty hot but I didn’t set any fires!

  • choicelady : Hi glenn!

  • glenn : Good evening, AdLib, Sally, and ChoiceLady. Ad, sorry to hear about the fires.

  • choicelady : AdLib – we don’t have smoke, but something here is making me very ill today – nausea, headache. I think it’s the heat. The meeting with Common Cause etc. was UN air conditioned because of the noise – I think it got to me. So your circumstances are much, much worse. Please be careful – it’s nasty stuff.

  • AdLib : Sally – And another good thing, that’s cool here!

  • SallyT : One good thing, I ain’t PG!

  • AdLib : Sally – :lol:

  • SallyT : Yeah, well, he has caused me a lot of TROUBLE!

  • AdLib : The fire is miles away but the smoke from it has made breathing outside very unhealthy.

  • choicelady : Sally – it WAS the lower parts of Weiner that got HIM in trouble. Don’t let it get the better of you!

  • choicelady : Oh AdLib – I am SO sorry! Lived through that only once but never forgot. Stay safe – that’s creepy!

  • SallyT : It is like everything below the Weiner was deleted. Now we will let everyone else wonder what we are talking about.

  • AdLib : CL – The smoke from the fire is horrible and choking, turned the sky orange. Can’t go outside.

  • choicelady : Hi Sally – you’re hard at work on this week’s funnies? Good for you!

  • AdLib : Sally – Will do!

  • choicelady : I trust you’re not inundated by the fires?

  • SallyT : AdLib, you can wait until after VOX to help me on the other matter.

  • AdLib : Hey CL! Wonderful to see you!

  • choicelady : Hi AdLib – good to see you if you’re on!

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “NRA is Yesterday” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

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