Vox Populi – 1-25-2013

AdLib : Sounds good, looking forward to it! Have a wonderful weekend!

SallyT : Well, I will let you go and enjoy your weekend, AdLib. See you later and you will find the cartoons there Saturday around 4:00.

AdLib : Great, just a little code problem last time, glad all is well now!

AdLib : I imagine, Hillary’s hearing and women in combat will share some space in cartoons!

SallyT : Good night, Murph.

SallyT : I finally got the hang up of getting my personal comments under them, too. Well, I think I have.

MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Ad Lib, Sally, Choice…..

AdLib : Sally – Your work on the Funnies is self-evident and very appreciated by all of your readers!

SallyT : You will find them there Saturday afternoon, AdLib. There are some good ones this time. Lots on the inaug and Hillary! And, women in combat!

SallyT : I am? Wow, guys I am starting to tear up. I start every Sunday after you post this week on the next weeks. I have to stop on Saturday afternoon so you can get them posted but I start on the next weeks right after.

AdLib : Well Sally, looks like it’s closing time again! Thanks for closing the VP bar with me again! Looking forward to my Sunday Funnies! Take care!

AdLib : Sally – I’ll second Murph on that! You do an incredible job on Sunday Funnies and you’re building a loyal following!

SallyT : But, it is worth it when someone says something as you just did, Murph! Thank you so much.

AdLib : Night CL! Hope we can get Khirad to join that discussion with glenn, would be great! And yes, I look forward to Vox and the chats here every week! Always fun and fascinating!

SallyT : I don’t know what to say, Murph….you are making me blush. It is a lot of work and believe me there are a lot of bad ones I have to toss.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…you make me look very good….that I know someone that creative and that organized. It really is an amazing effort.

SallyT : You do, Murph! Wow, that means a lot to me that you think that much of it!

AdLib : Night Murph!

SallyT : Good night, CL, and anytime you would like to spend a day as me on my facebook page, you are more than welcome to it.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….that cartoon sounds right on the mark. Have I told you that I now e mail the link to your Sunday Funnies page to my entire political mailing list? That’s my entire Obama network. Well received.

choicelady : Good night Murph, good night Sally, good night AdLib. I, too, am packing it in. EXCELLENT discussion tonight. AdLib – get Khirad on again to talk with glenn. What a night that would be!!! We’d be the best educated people in America after the two of them finished with us! Thank you for doing this week after week – it’s the best part of the Friday and on into the weekend! ‘Night all!

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….agreed re. the maturity of roe v wade remains

SallyT : I have a cartoon for Sunday that show a gun nut with the NRA wanting to arm the fetus.

choicelady : AdLib. An Omlette? Scrambled preborn chickens, of course.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…what a way to end a good evening of spirited conversation. To bed.

choicelady : Murph – your end point about fetal viability is spot on. I forgot that. They did state that if viability could be assured earlier, there would have to be a rollback. I learned all this over a long period of years answering the antiabortion zealots in debates etc. I was always impressed with the care the justices took on this. It has never yet failed to answer most of society’s questions. They did an amazing thing.

AdLib : CL and Murph, thanks for the comments on Roe. I don’t think a majority will ever be convinced that the fate of a fertilized egg should be a priority over a living, breathing woman. And when fighting against science, of course they sound nutty. Eggs are people too? Then what’s an omelet?

SallyT : Don’t forget when money is involved, CL, things take on a different color all together.

choicelady : Sally – The church, NO church,holds funerals for miscarriages in the first trimester. Catholics tell nurses to throw a little holy water on a miscarried fetus – no priest comes by to baptize it. When a nun did that for a young child, she was excommunicated. So they all have massively double standards. We know that embryos and fetuses are NOT the same as children. Only politically have they become MORE important than children!

SallyT : Oh, I meant to say, too bad he is gone…..me fingers are not working with my eyes or brain.

SallyT : Too bad is is gone, CL. Save that and give it to Glenn later.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL you did a better job with the question Glenn raised than I did.

SallyT : I read that, CL, about the Catholic church. Even the church will throw it out the window when money is involved.

choicelady : glenn – Roe is actually based in no small part on the science of human development. Unlimited access is confined to the first trimester when fetal development reveals no capacity to exist at all outside the womb and no pain receptors or brain function. Second – it has some restrictions toward the end, and the Third – it is FORBIDDEN unless the mother’s health or life are in peril or the fetus is so malfored it cannot live outside the mother without immeasurable suffering or imminent death. So it IS based on science. That’s why their screed is so disgusting – until there is brainstem/spinal cord fusion at the third trimester, there is no pain possible, and there is NO way for the fetus to live outside the womb. Judy Brown of American Life League said, “we are going to have to personalize the egg.” For a time she succeeded – until people started thinking about it. We never have and never will believe a fetus is the same as a person. BTW in a lawsuit against the malpractice death of 7-month twin fetuses in a CATHOLIC hospital, the Catholic church and its lawyer are saying that fetuses are NOT human beings. I am NOT making this up. It’s in Colorado going on right now.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…Roe v. Wade makes it clear that there is not enough evidence re. the nature of the fetus….and therefore it decides the case for the first two trimesters based on the woman’s health and her rights to make decisions about it under the rubric of privacy. For the third trimester the admit that states have the right to guard the life of the fetus since viability now comes into play. The justices noted that future rulings on the matter would need to look to new developments in medicine/science to inform its decision making.

SallyT : Hope so!

AdLib : SO, looks like immigration reform is next on Obama’s dance card, man, is he just piling on the losses for the GOP in public opinion, I am enjoying this.

SallyT : Okay, I’ll say: Good night Glenn!

AdLib : Night glenn!

glenn : And this time, I am truly out of here! Good night all!

glenn : Murph–good night. Stay warm!

AdLib : Night Murph, stay warm!

choicelady : Murph – as a former Buffalonian, preventing pipe freeze was a way of life for me, too. Hope it worked – had one burst once. Not pretty. Stay warm, keep the water flowing. Good night – GREAT learning from you as always!

glenn : Murph–Yup. Science and the gop are not a good fit. They fear anything that would prove them wrong. I truly don’t know if abortion is “killing babies”, but I also know that it should be a woman’s and her partner’s choice. The SCOTUS ruling did not depend on whether or not it was “killing babies”; if I recall, the SCOTUS decision was based on privacy issues. So even if we get at the scientific truth, it still wouldn’t change the SCOTUS ruling regarding abortion. Wouldn’t someone have to bring it before SCOTUS on a different issue?

SallyT : Good night, Murph!

MurphTheSurf3 : Well time to pack it in….I am bone tired…..two days spent keeping pipes from freezing…this was a nice break….take care all.

AdLib : glenn – The “pro-lifers” are really just about conforming society to their religion as opposed to really caring about anyone else’s life.

choicelady : glenn – it is grounded in their profound belief in original sin. Once a baby is born as a real person, sin is all it’s about until it is “born again”. Then you’re STILL on your own because as your salvation is your personal responsibility, so is every facet of your life. If anyone helps you, it can divert you from the ladder of self help that you MUST climb with Jesus’ help alone. Charity is even sinful – hunger and want are all motivations to succeed, so if you think you love Jesus BUT you are poor, then it’s your LACK of sufficient belief and failure to love Jesus enough that holds you back. Children are not immune from this at all. They have to learn right away they are totally responsible for their own destiny.

SallyT : This was the comment in answer.”I completely agree and if folks dont wake up we are going to be in some serious trouble. I could go on and on about this but will leave it at that.” Stupid people. I told a friend of mine that I knew her and I were always the cool ones in the class but never realized that we also were the most intelligent!

AdLib : CL – The only reason I can’t prove that the Jews and Bigfoot planned 9/11…is that aliens from Area 51 have used con trails to inflict mind control on us to ignore the evidence!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…and their unwillingness to fund efforts to get at the truth, the scientific truth….I think they fear it.

glenn : Murph–Yes, I did see it. That’s what I’ve always been unable to understand. How republicans/tpar tiers can be so adamant about abortion, but have absolutely no compassion for children, especially if they are born poor, once they are actually out of the womb.

choicelady : AdLib – you mean the Jews did NOT plot 9-11 with Bigfoot? Can you PROVE that, huh, can you???

SallyT : Oh, CL, I would love to give you my facebook for a day. You could shoot these people to the moon.

MurphTheSurf3 : Take care, Glenn.

choicelady : glenn – NOT ture confessions but more like an anthropologist doing participant observation! VERY interesting things you shared, thank you!!!

AdLib : glenn, really enjoyed your insights tonight about your travels in the ME! Have a great weekend!

choicelady : Sally – that IS true. It’s Kurds. Years ago. They were gassed. I have a friend who was the head of one of the Kurdish movements years ago. That’s NOT a lie. AND they did get the gas from the U.S. But by the first war in 1990, they had NOTHING which is why it ended so fast. Everyone NEEDS to remember Bush’s Sec’y of the Treasury Paul O’Neil who wrote of his awful experience in the Administration that Bush declared on the VERY FIRST DAY in the first Cabinet meeting in 2001 that the U.S. was going after Saddam and Iraq. WMD and AlQae’da were just EXCUSES to do what he planned all along. As for 9/11 warnings that were ignored – shudder. I hope to hell it WAS just incompetence.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…did you see my comment in response to your question about Boehner and abortion?

glenn : Okay, ladies and gents, it’s time for this shameless hussy to sign off. Enjoyed our chat tonight; I feel as though I was on “true confessions”. ‘Night all!

AdLib : Murph – Yes, I was alluding to his creationism teaching in my previous. How could a majority of Americans have him appointing a Sec’y of Education?

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….well this is the Show Me State….so show him or her….I really come back at them….

SallyT : Murph, this is a teabagger in Missouri…….. ….

glenn : Sally–from the same place that all bagger conspiracy theories come from–the tinfoil hat! (Ha–I bet you thought I was going to name another place).

AdLib : Sally – All that was left out was “The Jews planned 9-11 with Bigfoot!”

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally. Your FB post is like so many I have. What I do is take a couple of statements and SHRED Them WITH A NARRATIVE AND THEN LOTS OF LINKS TO SOURCES ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT. I then make the statement that I can do this with all of the elements in the post but why bother. I feel good and it tends to quiet the other side…for a few seconds.

SallyT : Where the hell is this story about the 20000 graves coming from, CL?

glenn : Murph–Thanks for letting me know how they did it. I agree–hope the voters turn them out.

choicelady : glenn – I read Eclectablog whose founder, Chris Savage,is one smart guy. I THINK (I am really digging in dark brain recesses tonight) I read that the courts said that the bill was unconstitutional and could not stand. But, as noted, I’m not sure where or what I saw only that I had a moment of relief. Or fantasized it!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- they attached a budget rider to the emergency management bill and that it made it untouchable. Will MI voters kick them all out? They should.

AdLib : CL – Jindal exposed what a lightweight he is in his response to Obama’s SOTU and that first impression for the nation is still harming him. He will sound so weak in a primary, trying to rally RW Repubs while Santorum clocks him. And by trying to have it both ways, he will turn everyone away from him. Though, I would love to see a Hillary/Jindal debate, that would be so entertaining!

choicelady : Sally – some people just won’t learn. The ONLY reaon to think Iraq had WMD was incorporated into a joke the French told in 2002: “How does the US know Iraq has WMD? Rumsfeld has the receipts.” Otherwise – no.

SallyT : This teabagger is mad at me because I called her out for saying “obama” this and President Bush that. I said it is President Obama and she could at least capitalize the O. She said she didn’t respect him enough to do that.

glenn : Murph–another scary thing about MI–remember that bill they passed to let an “executive manager” (or whatever they called it) come in and take over cities and towns? The voters overturned that bill in the November election. And what did the legislature do next? Passed the same bill, but this time with the provision that it couldn’t be overturned by voters. Now, I don’t know how you can pass a bill that can’t be overturned, but according to Rachel Maddow, that is what they did.

choicelady : Murph – MI has the initiative. Betcha they go on the ballot with a citzens’ redistricting commission a la CA and rebut the congressional district electoral vote division. They are canny, those folks in MI.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Ad Lib…let us recall that Jindal has permitted the placement of creationism side by side with evolutionary science in curriculum, and he has an advanced degree in Biology. He has many stupid credentials.

SallyT : Okay guys, here’s a laugh for you. This just hit my facebook page from my teabagger classmate: “first of all I don’t believe they lied about WMD – they were there – found graves with 20,000 that had been killed at a time. we all know that with hind sight the war was certainly far from over. obama voted against the war when he was in the senate – but we are still there. first bill he signed the first time was that Guantanamo would be closed in one year – 4 years later it is still open. I am very thankful Pres Bush was in office when we were attacked. I don’t agree with everything he or any President has done. but I cannot think of one thing I like about the Muslim in the White House today. with his wife who stated, “I have never been proud of being an American until my husband was nominated for President”. unlike her I have always been proud of being an American.”

choicelady : AdLib – I SO agree. That was the speech today. He railed against stupid comments but NEVER against the most extremist positions of the far right in the GOP. He embraces all that. But he IS wussy. He’s NOT going to impress the NRA types and Bagger thugs EVER.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T BUT Michigan is running right for it. Even as five states that were pushing for electoral college reform have joined VA and Fl in saying, not now…..MICHIGAN ….Jennifer Granholm’s state.

glenn : Sally–Yes, I heard that “Governor Ultrasound” was saying he “didn’t support it” or some such nonsense. But I’ve also read that he said the same thing about the ultrasound bill and signed it anyway. You know repubs, say whatever sounds good, and then do whatever the hell you want if you have the majority!

choicelady : Sally – that was what I heard, too. Governor Vaginal Probe MAY have intuited that people are furious about the midnight, possibly unconstitutional , run up on power. He is fearful of looking like an accomplice to that.

AdLib : CL – Jindal is just playing a calculated game of looking reasonable but he isn’t at all. He has been a RW extremist against the poor, abortion, evolution and on and on. And he comes off like a wimp, he won’t get the Baggers to buy into him.

choicelady : glenn – that seems to be the fact. How he thinks his party would remotely support him, a man of some color, over a white guy is ridiculous. He is skinny, wussy, and dumb. Oh wait – the dumb part is fine. But he’s NOT attractive, is NOT a good speaker, and his dreams of glory are very misplaced.

AdLib : glenn – You’re right about that, on the local and state level, the Repubs are growing more worried and desperate in the swing states and will continue to try and pervert our democracy to save themselves from the popular vote. In the end, I think their machinations will be their undoing. This looks anti-American and anti-Democratic, you simply can’t disenfranchise an entire state and get away with it.

SallyT : Glenn, I don’t think the governor of VA will sign that. He was backing away from it fast today.

glenn : CL–Jindahl seems to be “positioning” himself for a run in 2016.

SallyT : Good night, Kes.

AdLib : Night Kes! Take care!

choicelady : ‘Night kes! Sweet dreams!

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…good night…

glenn : Good night kes. Have a great weekend.

choicelady : MSNBC had Jindal on screeching that the GOP had to be ‘adult’ and pointed fingers at Akins etc. Then he went on to stand for all they always stand for as if that eradication of stupid remarks was the ONLY reason they lost.

AdLib : Murph – Love that! Hits the nail square on the head, the Repubs are always crying about sour milk long after it’s spilled because in their narrow minds, it’s all about “us against them” and losing doesn’t conform to their theories of superiority. How could they lose? Everyone knows Obama is a Marxist from Kenya and that white people are superior! There’s no way he could win, ACORN must’ve stolen the election for him, this is an outrage!

kesmarn : Great discussion, kids, but I’m afraid I must say good night, too. Have a joyful weekend.

glenn : CL–Oh that’s good news that he had to rescind that order. I hadn’t read that.

glenn : AdLib–I sure hope boehner’s boneheaded moves will continue to rile up the Dem base. I know there’s been some blowback on this gerrymandering and electoral college move, but I wouldn’t put it past the pub governors and legislators to make their moves just when they think we’re not “watching.” Just like they did in VA when that one Dem senator was attending the inauguration.

choicelady : AdLib – Oh, I am with you on utterly inept. But WORST still is Newt’s Golden Prize.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- regarding Boehner and abortion. He says what he has to say to the right to lifers without challenging the aspects of their beliefs that work against life from womb to tomb. I also note that he says nothing about the impact of limiting family resources to those needing them, or the closing of women’s health clinics. Finally, if he and others want to win this, it will happen on the basis of a scientific finding: Human life begins at……. Since the GOP regularly cuts such funding….he is working against his own goal.

AdLib : CL – Newt was the worst as a person but he got what he wanted. Boehner can’t even get Repubs to vote for his own bill! How much worse of a majority leader could one be?

choicelady : glenn – I think, I may have misread this, but I believe Jihdal had to rescind that directive against hospice care. The outcry was HUGE even in sleepy Louisiana. Where would people GO to die? It’s disgusting he thought this was a good idea.

choicelady : AdLib – I have to disagree with you. He may be the most ineffectie Speaker in recent memory. NEWT takes the prize as the WORST.

kesmarn : glenn, seriously? No Hospice care? That’s cold.

glenn : AdLib and Kes–I think it’s interesting and hopeful that many republicans (not t/partiers) are coming out and saying how stupid their party is becoming. Of course Jindahl is saying that, and then issues an executive order, yes an executive order, that says that Medicare in his state will no longer pay for Hospice care.

AdLib : glenn – I would guess it’s all about Boehner trying to placate the upset Baggers who are watching the Repubs fold on everything. How can they end abortion? Obama is going to sign a bill outlawing abortion? Even though it’s unconstitutional ? It’s good ol’ fashioned pandering with no substance behind it, designed to rile up and rally the nutjobs but the blowback is, it will rile and rally up Dems. More empty swagger from the worst Speaker in modern memory.

MurphTheSurf3 : THANKS for the comments….reme mber I hang around with these folks in the real world and that makes it harder for them to be stupidly negative…some still were but they were shushed by the rest. One of the guys said this when a couple of others were moaning about the 2nd terms: “You fellows are like people who keep replaying the big game in their heads…the game they lost…but never get to the point where they deal with it.” Shut them up.

choicelady : glenn – jobs, jobs, jobs. Huh. Who knew? Never have seen a single jobs bill from Boehner or any other GOP warthog.

kesmarn : The sense I had was that more and more people were taking a look at the Prez and saying: “You know, he makes sense. He seems like a smart guy. And the stock market is going up.”

choicelady : Sorry – that was glenn’s question. Boehner is just throwing crumbs at the base on abortion. He has nowhere to go. The STATES are a problem. Federally – nothing is happening there.

glenn : CL–Now that’s not entirely fair. I seem to recall he had a plan regarding “jobs, jobs, jobs”. I think he lost it, though.

SallyT : dud, hot and mad

AdLib : Kes – I think people grow weary at the prospect of the GOP stalling the nation again for 4 more years. It’s not a policy that works outside of trying to sabotage a re-election for a President. I mean, in 2016, will the GOP candidate get a boost or a knock for being part of a party that has conducted an 8 year seige against American progress?

SallyT : Kes my facebook page was a blaze on inaug day. Hot and made.

glenn : kes–now’s your chance! Seize the moment!

choicelady : glenn – Boehner’s plan is his plan from 1974 on. Yawn.

kesmarn : Funny that no one’s ever written an Ode to the Uvula.

glenn : Murph and AdLib–What do you think of boehner’s new plan to “get rid of abortion” this year?

choicelady : AdLib and Murph – that IS what I am sensing. People like this president. They are fed up with the NO FOLKS. We won’t be rid of the extremists, but the middle, the salt of the earth people, are beginning to see he is not evil, and his policies are not dangerous but good. HUGE turning point in not just politics but in wisdom.

kesmarn : I had a couple of FB “friends” who sulked on inauguration day — said they refused to have the TV on, etc. — but they didn’t seem to get much of a reaction.

AdLib : Kes – Always was a fan of the uvula.

glenn : Yeah, right, kes. Only when they were talking about things like the uvula.

choicelady : kes – since you’re a nurse, I imagine that was helpful? Always good to know where the various body parts are.

kesmarn : Sometimes I stayed awake in anatomy class, c’lady.

AdLib : Murph – It’s not scientific but that is what the feel out there seems to be. People are nodding along with Obama, acknowledging his win and his position as America’s President and they’re ready to move forward. I do agree with Kes’ friend who said that Americans have kind of become bored with the “just say no to everything” Repubs. They’re tired of them and ready to move on with Obama.

SallyT : My redneck friends are in Missouri

choicelady : kes – LOVE it when you talk dirty!

glenn : Murph–Wow–it seems the “average” American is finally getting it. When do you think the politicians will?

choicelady : Murph – YIKES. That’s almost enough to be a religious conversion experience! MISSOURI?????

SallyT : I have seen a lot of ugliness from my redneck friends for the first couple of days but they have been less of late. Doom and Gloom was all the talk.

kesmarn : Not to mention the uvula.

choicelady : AdLib -oooooh the philtrum! How can one ignore that which is just under your nose? Wowie!

glenn : AdLib–saw a poll today that said most Americans agreed with the “progressive agenda” that President Obama laid out in his inaugural address.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib et. al. Here in my little backwoods of Missouri – a) there is this odd acceptance of Obama as President when I expected a lot of anger on Tuesday, Wednesday – b) people impressed at the quality of the Inaugural celebration from start to finish – c) disappointment with the GOP for its failure to act like adults ; Romney not attending, the GOP trip to Vegas etc. AND- outright laughter at Fox’s coverage.

AdLib : CL – Don’t forget the allure of the philtrum!

choicelady : Murph – outside of my huband, almost recovered from his surgery, throwing up violently at midnight inaugural night, sick with intestinal flu, I can’t say anything interesting at ALL has happened. I’m getting too caught up in nursemaid chores to have noticed.

glenn : CL–No, I think the back of the knee is still ugly.

AdLib : I just seem to get a vibe that Americans are more and more in step with Obama and view the Repubs more for the small minded, troublemaking jerks they are.

choicelady : glenn – next you’ll be telling me that the backside of the knee, surely one of the LESS attractive parts on anyone – is an enticement!

glenn : Murph–No, I lead a very dull life nowadays. How about you? Did you have any interesting ones?

AdLib : Murph – Can you start the ball rolling, what post-inaug experiences have you had?

choicelady : AB – have a wonderful trip and safe journey! Enjoy!

AdLib : AB – Have a great time with your AFG girl and enjoy Austin! Night!

MurphTheSurf3 : Night AB

MurphTheSurf3 : Can I ask if ANYONE had any interesting post-inauguratio n experiences?

glenn : ‘Night AB. Nice chatting with you tonight. Have a safe trip and enjoy your visit.

choicelady : AB – Well I do,too, but they rarely come out at public events, so I’m safe! I don’t tend to wear sleveless things or anything that could set a man’s heart pittypat. They’re safe!

kesmarn : Get some pictures, AB! Rest well and safe travels!

AdLib : AB – That goes to my argument though, these types of Muslims who believe that looking at a woman’s arm or eyes will lead to impure thoughts…so they are saying that Muslim men are weaker than men of other religions who can be friendly with women and look them in the eyes without being dominated by impure thoughts?

AlphaBitch : Glenn – one final thought. I think your knuckles are hubba-hubba!

AlphaBitch : Ok folks. Way past my bed time. Off to bed – tomorrow is a road trip and my first visit to see my AFG girl in Austin!

glenn : AB–I bet your elbows just “ooze” sensuality, too. Believe it or not, that’s one of the areas of the body that we had to be sure to cover because of those “sexy” elbows. Oh well, beauty as well as sensuality, is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

choicelady : AdLib – any religion that puts a premium on RULES rather than on wisdom and spirituality becomes corrupt. That is why so many religions are so fragmented – there are those of the ‘wisdom’ tradition and those of the ‘rules’ orientation. And they shatter apart because those two things are utterly incompatible. The Rules people are very small in their faith – very fearful. And therefore holding their lives together is a dangerous and unyielding work of learning, following, and imposing rules that prevent the chaos they otherwise have and would create.

glenn : AB–I know–I told you it was a convuluted rationalization.

AlphaBitch : I have VERY erotic shoulders, CL. My Iranian friend told me that Muslim men were not to look directly into the eyes of a woman, that it would make impure thoughts. He and I always looked directly at each other. I love his wife too, BTW. They are BOTH very dear friends that I feel lucky to have.

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady. I was told that “male modesty” required not looking women directly in the eyes, not touching them, and not wearing “loud” colors.

choicelady : glenn – I think that’s the rationale. Keepin’ wimmin pure. But it’s still vile because those boys have no say in the matter. Horrid.

choicelady : kes – I have decided that Muslim men have decided the shoulder is OK. I have always looked them in the eye, and they me. I did not know THAT was not so cool. But the shoulder is also fairly new. Good adaptation, that. Friendly but HARDLY erotic.

AlphaBitch : CL: and not just dance; they are passed around in a show of power from their “friends”.

AdLib : AB – When such cruelty becomes sanctioned and grows out of religious dogma, it does reflect on the failings of that religion. It doesn’t mean it is a bad religion but it does mean that it is a harmful and flawed religion. Seeking spirituality should not produce cruelty.

AlphaBitch : glenn, yes, but they will HOWL at the suggestion that THAT IS homosexuality; when you have sex with the same sex person, you are exhibiting homosexual behavior.

choicelady : glenn – I do remember the uproar about Bush and the King. I once stared straight into the eyes of King Abdullah – he was in a Rolls Royce headed to heathrow. Our bus passed them, and he looked up, at me, as we went by. I held his gaze – scared the crap out of me – until we passed. He was scary. His father was still alive, so he was “just” a prince then, but what a hard man he seemed to be. The wives BTW were in the Mercedes behind the Rolls. Can’t have any impropriety…

glenn : AB-+-I think that on some level it’s okay for men to have sex with each other, because it’s keeping the womenfolk “pure”. Or some convuluted rationalization like that.

AlphaBitch : Good points, CL.

choicelady : AdLib – those poor boys also are dressed as girls and forced to dance at men’s dinners. It is past disgusting that they are so abused all in the name of ‘sexual purity’. Very little is known about what happens to them when they reach maturity. It’s a closely guarded society. But think about altar boys – it’s much the same thing. Most of the priests are NOT homosexual at all – boys are convenient rather than desired per se. So the church’s fixation on homosexuality desperately misses the point about the awfulness of celibacy.

AlphaBitch : I’ve seen Talib men, all black turbaned and kohl eyed, giving marigolds to their friends, all smiley and moon-eyed. Yet if they were “homosexual”, they would be put to death.

glenn : CL–Oh sorry, misunderstood your post. No, no, no–the men did not hug me; they hugged each other.

kesmarn : c’lady, the Muslim docs at the hospital have tried to be more culturally sensitive too. One of the most conservative actually put his hand on my shoulder and looked into my eyes (both formerly taboo) when he spoke with me. I was surprised, too.

AlphaBitch : Sure!

glenn : AB–As they hold hands in Saudi, also. I know I’m getting off topic a little, but does anyone remember the brouhaha about gwb holding hands with King Abdullah in the Rose Garden?

AdLib : Murph – Thanks, I have both articles up in windows to read after VP! There would be a risk but I would be concerned on the other front, without filibuster change, will anything of value get passed in the Senate anyway?

AlphaBitch : Ad = it took me four days to get over it once I learned about it. I was appalled, and unsure I could work with the chirren. I was lucky, and don’t think my boys (I’m sure about most of them) were subjected to such abuse.

choicelady : glenn – in Saudi they hugged each other or you??? I’m used to men hugging men, women hugging women. Just was NOT prepared to BE hugged by a Muslim man!

choicelady : AB – as with your Iranian friend, these are all men I’ve known a very long time who know I’ve stood with them in dark and dangerous times. They’d not ‘try’ me nor are they ever inappropriate. It’s just new to me and therefore – surprising! In three cases their wives, my friends, were right there, too, and laughed at my surprise!

AdLib : AB – That’s horrible. We’ve seen what sexual repression does to devout men in many religions, the poor children…

AlphaBitch : Men hug and hold hands in AFG. Very common too.

glenn : CL–The men in Saudi hugged all the time. It was a cultural thing. You get used to seeing it after a while.

choicelady : Murph – what I read was excellent. I happen to believe very much in the ‘close reading of complexities’ and think he did a very good job. Too much to take it all in before Vox ends, but overall – superb analysis.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL..let me know what you think of the DK article..it does as you say…put it all into a broader and more complex context.

AlphaBitch : I hug my Iranian friend – in public. But he is truly like a brother to me and I do trust him. So is my AFG “brother” from the program.

choicelady : AB – I’ve read about the boys. It’s horrific. That’s culture. Honor killings are culturally specific. Only US dumb people think all of Islam is identical just as too many people think all Christians are Jerry Falwell or Jerry Falwell Lite. (Yes – I know it’s really Jerry Falwell DOA, but lots don’t yet.)

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…you might find this interesting «link» And then as a counterpoint «link» I think the two make it clear that the path is not clear and that the battle could have swallowed up much of the energy the Senate needs in the next six months which would have served the GOP in its efforts to obstruct.

AlphaBitch : CL: Watch the length of the hugs. If it goes on a little too long, you “prove” their theory that western women are loosely moraled.

glenn : AB–Oh, yes, please do ask him. Even after all these years, (we were in Iran from ’76-’78), it still makes me wonder.

AdLib : Hey Sally!

AlphaBitch : What is ironic is that in AFG you can’t see women or hear women etc. – so the men instead rape young boys. It’s called bacha bazi

AdLib : glenn – Appreciate your points, you make so much sense. Blind obedience is a poison to social development. When people are taught to be followers, creativity is tamped down and along with that, progress. And when ancient fears, such as the fear some men have of sexuality and women, continue as dogma, women are oppressed and harmed.

choicelady : glenn – good. Glad you’re not leaving. This is getting VERY interesting. Too bad Khirad isn’t on!

choicelady : AB and glenn – here in Sacramento I have many Muslim friends and allies. The MEN have started to hug – which leaves me SO shocked I usually am off balance! But they have decided to adapt to American ways. Problem is – I never know WHO and who doesn’t do that. And who hugs like we do and who clasps hands as men do. It’s all very disturbing to western women who have NO idea what to do anymore. We suddenly are making the case for cultural normative behavior!!!

AlphaBitch : Glenn – I have a very dear Iranian imam friend. I will ask him.

glenn : CL–No I’m not leaving just yet. I thought Sally was saying goodnight.

AlphaBitch : The Turkish, Jordanian and Lebanese Muslims I have known – and many of the Iranians – are very open minded and tolerant. The culture weighs in more than the religion, IMHO>

glenn : AB–I didn’t know that. But then again, trying to make any religion make logical sense doesn’t “compute” in my opinion. I also used to live in Iran (way before the Shah was overthrown), and I took Farsi lessons. One day we were talking about the word “logic” with our Farsi teacher, and he told us that there is no corresponding word in Farsi. Now I don’t know if he wasn’t sure what “logic” meant, but that is what he told us.

choicelady : glenn – NOT all Muslim disagree with free will. SA is the MOST ultra conservative of Muslim nations. Much of their interpretation is entirely cultural. Other Muslim countries with different strands of Islam are very different. As are US Muslims overall.

SallyT : Hi CL! I am late but thought I would check in.

AdLib : glenn – My argument to them would be, but aren’t women Muslim? Why would a devout Muslim woman be evil and a devout Christian or Hindu woman be good?

choicelady : Are you leaving, glenn? Good night! Thank you for all your wonderful contributions. We will be dying to know more about your amazing experiences!

SallyT : You too, Glenn!

choicelady : Hi Sally – I was off reading something and didn’t see you come in! How are you?

AlphaBitch : glenn: YES free will is HUGE in Islam. It is precisely why man is “ranked” higher than angels, who can only do God’s will. Man was given the gift of free will. Ironic,huh?

glenn : Hi Sally. Looking forward to Sunday with your funnies! Have a good weekend.

choicelady : Murph – since ususally DK is flaming, this is helpful. I will keep it and read it more. Thank you. It is like the appellate court ruling today – it’s only ONE THING. It is NOT definitive yet. There are more to come. We shall see how this plays out as we will see how Reid uses the changes to move things that previously have been ashcanned. Time will tell.

glenn : AdLib–I’m not sure “free will” is a concept in Islam. You must blindly follow the teachings of the Koran, the Prophet Mohammed, and of course, Allah; in fact they have Koran memorization schools so that you know what to do in all situations.

AdLib : Hey foodchain! Sorry you’re so tired, glad to see you pop in though!

SallyT : Hello and good night, Glenn! Sorry we missed each other tonight.

AdLib : Murph – It is different though when it comes to setting the rules of the Senate, IMO. When it comes to passing bills, yes, the Senate has handcuffed itself with the filibuster but there is not established precedent that votes on rules for an incoming Senate need a super majority. It isn’t established as a simple majority either, it’s just not established either way so while there could be a credible fight, the simple majority vote could win in the end.

AlphaBitch : But why CL did God allow men to have free will if he didn’t want them to resist temptation? And just hiding it under burqas doesn’t let them be tempted to resist. Just sayin.

kesmarn : Hey, Sally!

glenn : Good night, Sabreen. Good night foodchain.

foodchain : your guys are terrific.

SallyT : Okay, what problems have you solved and what are still open?

AlphaBitch : Food – does juice count?

glenn : AdLib–No Muslim men aren’t weaker. It’s that women are so much more evil that they will tempt even the strongest of Allah’s followers. I kid you not. Amazing how women have all of this “power”, but can’t even leave the Kingdom without their husband’s permission!

choicelady : Hi foodchain! Sorry you can only stay a second, but it’s nice to have you. Your Orange advice is excellent.

AlphaBitch : Amen Ad. I say get ’em when you can still do some good, not when they can do more bad.

kesmarn : G’night, food! Get some rest.

AdLib : AB – That is exactly what I’m thinking. While the Dems wring their hands in anxiety about changing the filibuster, if the Repubs gained the majority, I don’t think they’d think twice about changing it if the Dems were using it the same way they’ve been. So what’s the point in trying to preserve something that Repubs will likely remove and which won’t be there anyway if Dems are the minority…which is the only real reason Dems oppose changing it!

foodchain : Hey to all; I’m really tired and want to be here but let me say this: Glenn, I plan on reading this tomorrow; orange is best served as a fruit and worst served as either agent or Boehner. Everyone and all the great thoughts will have to wait. Just too busy….tired

choicelady : Good night, Sabreen – sorry you have to go, but it’s lovely to see you!

glenn : AB–Nail polish is perfectly acceptable, as is tons of makeup. In Saudi, not all women covered their faces, so if you didn’t cover your face with a veil, you covered it with as much makeup as you could. And many of those with the veils wore tons of makeup under it, as I saw when I attended “women’s functions”.

AlphaBitch : Ad – they think they are just more highly sexed and sexy.

choicelady : glenn – knowing you have this checkered past makes us love you all the more!

kesmarn : **GASP**

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- the problem is that changes in procedure in the Senate have generally required the super majority. There were occasions when small rules changes were made with a simple majority (and I do mean small). This would have been so significant that the GOP would have challenged it AND just challenging it would allow them to play up their new meme “Obama is setting things up for his kingship and the Dems in the Senate are members of his Court.”

kesmarn : G’night, Sabreen, rest well. It was a beautiful inauguration.

glenn : kes–Yes, my hair too!

AdLib : AB – That is the question, aren’t Muslim Extremists saying that Muslim men are weaker than men from every other belief system, that if they saw an arm or a calf they would become crazed like animals but somehow men of other religions don’t? I think it’s a diss.

Sabreen60 : Well everyone I have to leave, but stay safe and keep up the fight.

AlphaBitch : Did you wear nailpolish glenn?

choicelady : glenn – There is a hugely wonderful book, “Terror in the Name of God” by Mark Juregensmeier from around 2000 that compared bin Laden, Don Bray of the Army of God, and the Japanese cult leader who spread ricin in the Tokyo subways. They were indistinguishabl e.

kesmarn : I’ll bet you even displayed the hair on your head, glenn!! Don’t you know that’s “asking for it”?

AlphaBitch : Bet. That should have been Want to bet…

glenn : Kes and CL–Yes, my sordid past is coming out tonight. I hope you will still “speak” to me.

AlphaBitch : Want to be that – Reagan forbid – there is ever a majority of Rs in the Senate, they won’t seek to put a stop to the silent filibuster????

MurphTheSurf3 : CL I have been recommending this article from the Daily Kos. It is a bit “in the weeds” from a parliamentary perspective but it lays out how the deal is very real and since it is written by one of the organizers of the break-the-filibu ster movement I take it as a serious effort. «link»

AlphaBitch : I once asked my AFG boys why, if men can’t control themselves around all that nekkid forearm skin, wasn’t EVERY SINGLE woman in the U.S. raped? That shut them up for a while…

AdLib : Murph – The plain fact is that the Constitution doesn’t say one thing about filibusters, only that the Senate can make its own rules. Changing the filibuster isn’t a Constitutional issue, it’s a political one. Doesn’t mean the Repubs wouldn’t take it to court nor that RW judges could support them but the truth is, it is up to the Senate to make their own rules and approve them at the start of each session.

glenn : CL–You have no idea how much the religious right reminds me of the Mutawa (religious police). Some of the things the religious right say are almost exactly the same things the Mutawa say.

kesmarn : Boehner orange?

choicelady : AB – OMG – orange syndrome is catching!

AlphaBitch : A forearm is a terrible thing to waste.

AlphaBitch : I feel myself turning orange….pumpki n orange….

choicelady : glenn – SHORTS! Sleeveless blouses!!! Oh the horror!!!

choicelady : glenn – no they never used the nuclear option because the Dems always caved.

kesmarn : Shameless hussy!!

glenn : kes–you have no idea. And slut that I was, I actually wore shorts and sleeveless blouses when I got back to FL.

AdLib : CL – The Repubs threatened the Nuke Option on filibusters and the Dems paid them off with agreeing to appointments for Bush if they would just stop scaring them. That’s how you negotiate.

choicelady : glenn – sleeping with your DRIVER? Good luck you weren’t stoned. I gather militants don’t actually WAIT for facts. Kinda remind me of…

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….the Senate is a very conservative institution. Let me add one more thing. I read a number of pieces that challenged the entire idea of the nuclear option pointing out that it had yet to be challenged in a convincing manner (i.e. a huge pr campaign, and a court challenge, with lots of guerrilla action in the Senate itself) and that was being threatened now. I think the risk was just too great. Consider how the news of the appellate court overturning Obama’s recess appointments has created such consternation.

choicelady : Sabreen – this court ruling is, like those on affordable care, not binding yet. There are several other courts with similar cases on those appointments pending. It will be a long and winding road to determine if the GOP’s phony ‘session’ is sufficient to actually make these appointments illegal.

glenn : CL–Perhaps the operative word in your question is “threatened”. Did the repubs actually use the “nuclear option”?

AlphaBitch : CL; Perhaps because they, like the apes from which they are descended, like to participate in chest-beating displays of aggression?

kesmarn : glenn, that must have been liberating for both of you! You finally get to drive, he gets to have a few beers. Normal stuff.

choicelady : Anyone – I remember under Clinton without ANY rule changes, the GOP threatened ‘the nuclear option’ all the time. Why could they do that but Dems can’t? I know, I know – I’m a lobbyist and OUGHT to know this, but it’s all I can do to pay attention to CA weirdnesses.

AdLib : Murph – It’s easy to get everyone to agree that french fries taste good but when you get to more substantive foods, people will have greater disagreements.

Sabreen60 : Charlie Pierce has a piece over at Esquire about the Republican judges who have ruled that PBO recess appointments are unconstitutional . The Repubs are just reprehensible.

glenn : Kes–No. We had many jokes about that. One was that I slept with my driver (my husband). That one comes from the fact that most Saudi women have “hired” drivers who were from other countries (called TCN’s for third country nationals). The other joke was that when we came home for vacations, I would drive and my husband would drink. Cause we weren’t allowed to drink, either (or at least not in public).

choicelady : Murph – I’ve not actually read much today about the outcome. What do you think of it?

AlphaBitch : Wow. Kudos to you glenn. Couldn’t have stood it myself.

choicelady : glenn – you should write a piece for us about your experiences. Amazing!

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….generally I agree but I think they had their reasons which were sufficient to waylay the nuclear option. Remember the two bills that passes last night that put the compromise into place were 78-16 and 86-9 and that says a lot.

Sabreen60 : CL, I certainly hope so. Surely Americans won’t sit still for this.

glenn : AB–I was in the Kingdom from 1982 to 1990. On and off. We first went when my husband worked for McDonnellDouglas , then we came home for a couple of months, then went back when he got a job with Boeing.

AlphaBitch : Hal SParks often says “Liberals need to learn that elections are held every TWO years, not every FOUR”. Good point.

choicelady : Sabreen – I got a tweet just before I left to go out for dinner saying that the enthusiasm for this electoral college redistricting is suddenly waning due to public outcry. Let’s keep up the heat!!!

AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the explanation. I don’t agree with any of them though, it’s playing into fear and not focusing on accomplishing things as opposed to stopping things they fear will come down the line.

kesmarn : Sabreen, I’m sure Ohio won’t be far behind, with our Tea Party governor. Thanks, disgruntled 2010 voters!

AlphaBitch : No. It was brought to me by Sarah Chayes, who was a very good friend to both Akrem and Spojmai (sp – Pashto for Moon)

kesmarn : glenn, were you able to drive in Saudi Arabia?

Sabreen60 : kes, McDonnell said he won’t sign it if the bill gets to him. I don’t trust him as far as I can throw him. MI and PA are talking about doing the same thing.

choicelady : AB – just so Mrs. Khakrezwhal was not assassinated in it…

AlphaBitch : Glenn: when/WHY were you in the Kingdom?

choicelady : Hi Sabreen – yes, the fun never ends, does it?

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

glenn : CL–Not in Saudi Arabia. Of course, I had to buy mine, so they weren’t the best material. Now that I think about it, perhaps the ones they sold to the infidels like me were made out of polyester out of spite. Most of the Saudi women made their own…wait…mos t of the Saudi women had these made by their maids.

kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! They kinda pulled a fast one in VA, didn’t they?

choicelady : Murph – Leahy is better than that, Boxer and Feinstein are holding onto their own history? This is insane! Except for Baucus – these are LIBERALS refusing to move things along.

AlphaBitch : Sabreen! Long time, no see(n). See how I did that?

Sabreen60 : Hey folks. Just stopped by to say a quick hello. What a great week. Now we have to deal with the underhanded shenanigans of the Republican Party nationally and in the swing states.

AlphaBitch : I have a burqa. From AFG. Belonged to the wife of an assassinated police chief, a good man named Akrem Khakrezwhal.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….Democrati c Sens. Max Baucus (Mont.), Patrick Leahy (Vt.), Dianne Feinstein (Calif.), Barbara Boxer (Calif.), Joe Manchin (West. Va.) and Mark Pryor (Ark.) Manchin and Pryor are Blue Dogs. Leahy is an institutionalist who regards the Mansfield Byrd silent filibuster as an important part of Senate life because it kept filibusters from blocking all business and kept some of the most bitter acrimony off the floor. Boxer and Feinstein were part of the group of senators that blocked several Bush initiatives including privatizing SS using the silent filibuster and Baucus is a mix of a Blue Dog and an Institutionalist .

choicelady : glenn – POLYESTER burquas?????? WTF? Whatever happened to Egyptian cotton or linen?????

kesmarn : Oooohhh…here I was thinking burqas were breathable 100% cotton…!

AlphaBitch : “Pardon me, ma’am, but your camel toe is particularly lovely in your aqua stretch pants. Did you perchance have a reverse liposuction?”

glenn : kes–there is no such thing as a “natural fiber burka”. Or at least there isn’t in Saudi Arabia. When I lived there, had to wear one, and the damn things are made out of polyester. Bloody hot in the summertime, I can tell you. Especially when the temp. is over 100 degrees!

kesmarn : Play, Tex!

choicelady : AB – LOL!!! That’s so disgusting it’s hilarious!

AlphaBitch : I once went as a tampon to a college Halloween party. I have no shame.

choicelady : AB – ill-fitting rayon and polyester. Pilled and snagged and shrunk. High water pants, tight in the crotch and backside. We wouldn’t know ’em without it all!

AlphaBitch : If it ain’t concealed, I don’t need no permit, Ad. This here is Texass.

kesmarn : Natural fiber burqas might work for them, but I’m sure they’d prefer polyester ones.

AdLib : AB – Or…what about a RW Republican/Bagge r costume contest? You will need a concealed weapon permit for that though.

AlphaBitch : CL: that is priceless. Rayon and poly are their faves.

choicelady : AB – Oh wow – that is even BETTER!

glenn : AdLib–Yes as far as I know. Read it on HP.

AlphaBitch : Only in my imagination, kes

choicelady : kes and AB – when it became clear that RU-486 was made by the same company that produced polyester, the anti-abortion zealots threatened to boycott. One clinic employee said that while it would definitely improve appearances, the idea of antis in natural fibers boggled her mind.

kesmarn : You mean Ronnie and God are two different people??

AdLib : glenn – Is that legit? Colbert’s sister wants to run for office in SC?

AlphaBitch : No, CL – it spells out “GOD” and then in flashing rhinestones, “RONNIE”

kesmarn : glenn! Perfect…multi- asking: patriotism with the ability to receive transmissions from other planets!

AlphaBitch : Let’s have a photo contest!!!!! Let’s dress up in the most ridiculoink costumes (or dress up our friends) and take photos. Most patriotic costume gets a free mug.

choicelady : AB – would your rhinestone tiara spell out “JESUS” too? If not, it’s unacceptable.

AdLib : CL – Well, I don’t vouch for that, don’t know for sure about Boxer and Feinstein.

kesmarn : That would be the accessory, c’lady!

choicelady : kes – glenn is right. It HAS to be tin foil. Goes with the rhinestones.

AlphaBitch : But Frennie – I gets the tiara.

glenn : Kes–hi. Make sure your pointed three-corner hat is made of tin foil.

choicelady : kes – I wish I could get you the huge rhinestone “JESUS” pins the anti-abortion old ladies used to wear. It’d just complete that outfit you’re suggesting with your semi.

kesmarn : Complete with dangling tea bags…

AdLib : Murph – Yep, that makes sense though I’d like to know what the reservations were of the Dems who opposed it. And the other down side would be, even if Reid prevailed on filibuster reform, you still have a Repub majority in the House who would block whatever they passed in the Senate.

AlphaBitch : Kes – don’t forget the pointy three cornered hat. A must this season.

glenn : AdLib–how about Stephen Colbert’s sister running for office in SC? Sorry for the change, but I can’t think of Jon Stewart without thinking of Colbert, too.

choicelady : glenn – when you’re used to hot weather, cold gets colder. I used to laugh at the CA folks – and now I am bundling up when it’s in the 50s.

kesmarn : Open carry semi it is, AB. I’ll wear my Christian jumper with that, too.

AdLib : CL – Just joking about Stewart! Generally, I’m with you, not interested in electing actors, CA has been the victim of that one too many times.

choicelady : AdLib – I just learned that from YOU about Boxer and Feinstein so no. I know nothing.

glenn : CL–I used to live in the Keys, so I know upper 50’s is cold (relatively speaking).

choicelady : kes – growing up in days of no slacks or jeans for girls in school, I think of winter as the season of Blue Knees. I was over the moon when tights came into fashion. Helped a bit.

AlphaBitch : Did I ever mention that I once had the proverbial big Ford truck and that I wanted a gun rack so that I could keep my baton and my bull whip in it???? Yep. Truth.

AdLib : CL – Have you or anyone else heard why Boxer and Feinstein opposed filibuster reform?

MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…my read is that his effort to whip them into line would have failed and that would have been a double loss for him…I wonder if he hoped that he could stampede the GOP into a kneejerk reaction against any cooperation (thus his deadline threat) which would have put a lot of additional pressure on his own hold outs. McConnell did not fall for it and the compromise was agreed to.

choicelady : glenn – I’m from Chicago and Buffalo and New England. I now live in Sacramento that freezes but today was upper 50s. Shorts and sunbathing weather to my previous home towns.

kesmarn : Good to see you, AdLib. Needed a little Vox after a long day…

AlphaBitch : SEmi automatics are hard to conceal, hon. But go right ahead on if you feel the need. I prefer open carry – more scary.

choicelady : AdLib – Nope. Some of the really GREAT pundits are best as pundits. Mark Twain and others of his ilk were excellent as they were. They’d have been awful INSIDE the system.

AdLib : Hey Kes, great to see you!

kesmarn : I would, c’lady, but blue is not my color.

AdLib : AB – Actually, you can upload a file to a gmail account and send a download link to anyone. That could be quick and easy for the PPT file.

choicelady : kes – Well hell then – you should be out sunbathing!

kesmarn : Don’t be surprised when I show up on your doorstep in my flip-flops, AB. Should I carry open or concealed in TX?

glenn : CL–Hi back. Are you in a warm place? I know it’s not cold to people like those in Albany, but it’s freezing here in GA tonight. In fact, my granddaughter had the day off from school because ice storms were predicted. Turns out it never ever rained! Still freezing, though.

choicelady : AdLib – of course. I KNOW you have taught her WHY WalMart is a bad corporate entity. It just read funny.

AlphaBitch : Kes, hon, we hit 80. C’mon down!

choicelady : AdLib – I guess I would be more hard on Harry were it not CA’s own two who would not go along. They’re tough nuts, and something must be going on. So back to the BEFORE the vote assessment – it is a step forward. Not good enough, but a step.

AdLib : CL – What about Jon Stewart for President?

kesmarn : My NY friend verified that -12 temp, c’lady. I think we’re all the way up to 19 here. Break out the sun screen!

AlphaBitch : Fave rude line from Rude Pundit on STephanie Miller: After the hearing, I bet Secy. Clinton spent all afternoon trying to wipe the ass off her shoes.

choicelady : glenn – did I say “hi”? I hope so! If not – HI!

AdLib : CL – I know you’re kidding but I think it would be brainwashing if we just hammered in the concept without showing our work, IOW, by displaying the reasons for our conclusion, she can see why it does or doesn’t make sense. Different entirely from parents saying, “Liberals are bad!”

glenn : AB–no problem.

choicelady : kes – hello dear friend – frozen solid still? A friend north of Albany NY said it was minus 12 at her place. Yikes!

AlphaBitch : Ad: to give him the bene of the doubt, maybe he’ll need to whip them for gun stuff. Choices, it all boils down to that, doesn’t it?

choicelady : AB – GREAT summation: we work, we feed, we sleep. Life in three easy lessons. LOL!!

kesmarn : c’lady, I am here. Just got off from a phone call, so I’ll have to just listen a bit to catch up.

AlphaBitch : Would love to do it, Ad. We just are so darned pressed for time. Thanks to PPOV, I’m going to Austin tomorrow to re-re-unite with my friend Tish Hinojosa – and to see my Afghan girl who is now a programmer for RACKSPACE. other than that, we work, we feed, we sleep. Sigh.

AdLib : Murph – The question is then, should this have been a situation where he did pressure and “whip” the dissenters into line? It’s a very big deal and from it, many advantages could have been gained.

choicelady : Is kes here?

choicelady : AB – It was years before I realized she was part of that family. I like their music but never figured them for rocket scientists. Ashley does seem a cut above.

AdLib : AB – Yes. I wonder if you could upload it to The Planet? If not, there are sites where you can upload a big file and I can download it, save the hassle of sending a flash drive.

AlphaBitch : Hey Glenn – sorry I got caught up in the Israeli thing w/ CL.

choicelady : AdLib – Oh, all right. I’ll give up my “no actors” mantra then. You’re undoubtedly correct. But NO to Ben Afflack or whatever his name is. Not with Markey in the wings – he ROCKS. I stand my ground against Ben.Whoever.

AlphaBitch : I have friends who know the Judds well, and AShley is the only one they like or think is truly intelligent.

AdLib : CL – Well, I would make an exception in Judd’s case. There is no Dem I’m aware of that could beat McConnell in Ky…except maybe her. So, I’m all for using celebrity in that case, to change minds that otherwise wouldn’t be open to change.

choicelady : AdLib – LOL!! But is that brainwashing like the religious right does? Is this a secular ATTACK ON A GREAT AMERICAN INSTITUTION?????

AlphaBitch : OMG CL. YOU HAVE TO. I have never seen a case more clearly spelled out against AIPAC>

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib. Re. the Senate Compromise. I do not think Reid had the votes unless he was willing to “whip” for them. Durbin said this. He decided to settle when it became clear he had 7 in the conference who did not want to pull the trigger. I am recommending the following article to those looking for a thorough understanding of the compromise. Warning- it is heavy into parliamentary references. Takeaways from the filibuster fight by David Waldman «link»

choicelady : AB – No I’ve NOT read his books. I’ll look for them!

AlphaBitch : I’d give it six. Don’t trust the bastards. There is always some excuse…

AlphaBitch : Ad: If I can send you a flash drive with the Blovs PPT of Palestine/Israel , would you make a post???

glenn : AlphaBitch–good evening. I think McConnell’s disease is called PODS. President Obama Derangement Syndrome. Many republicans/tpar tiers seem to have it.

AdLib : AB – I’ve mentioned before, when I ask my daughter what Walmart is, she says, “They’re bad.” We’ve taught her that one for some time.

choicelady : AB – Sorry -I thought it was 3 months to register. Well hell what’s another 3 months?

AlphaBitch : CL: Did you ever read Paul Findley’s books? Deliberate Deception and I forgot the other…….

choicelady : AdLib – I LOVE Ashley but I want NO MORE ACTORS to run for office. She is unqualified. Yes – McConnell is unqualified, but I REALLY don’t want her to do it!

choicelady : AB – I once had a 45 minute phone call FROM Barbara Boxer as she stripped a friend, a Muslim, of an award thanks to RW pro-Israeli extremists. It was UGLY. I had asked for a meeting for a faith group at her district office and suddenly got to be the point person in her attempt to justify her actions. Other than totally disagreeing with each other, it was a loooovely talk. Uh huh.

AlphaBitch : I really don’t want to mock him if it is a medical issue – aside from dumbassitis.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL- Boxer and Feinstein were in the Senate when it was filibuster that kept the neocons from turning SS into a Wall Street Ponzi game. I think they value the current system.

AdLib : McConnell is so pro-consumption in his greedy way of thinking, his jaw is gradually consuming the rest of his face.

AlphaBitch : Oopsy – that was supposed to be a !

AlphaBitch : KesQ

AlphaBitch : Walmarts in Dallas are no diff than Walmarts in Austin. They all suck.

AlphaBitch : Six months, CL. Gotta get registered.

choicelady : AdLib – I have to agree, for those precise reasons, about Pahrump. Been there, too.

AdLib : So Murph, what do you think of the filibuster agreement?

AlphaBitch : What is wrong w/ McConnell’s mouth – really? He can’t open his jaw. Is it a medical program or a too tight face job?

choicelady : AB – that is EXACTLY what I would recommend in Red-turn-Blue states! It’s a huge sacrifice, but what the hell – no one is working in TX anyway. MOVE to a crap place for three months before the 2014 election, register and Eff ’em.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…good evening to you. I am recommending the following article to those looking for a thorough understanding of the compromise. Warning- it is heavy into parliamentary references. Takeaways from the filibuster fight by David Waldman «link»

AdLib : I would love to see Ashley Judd run against McConnell, seeing the two of them on a debate stage would be the highlight of 2014.

AlphaBitch : CL: When CAN”T you discuss Israel? SEriously, how about a law that forbids lobbyists for foreign governments from lobbying here????????

glenn : I once lived in a town in FL between Crackertown and Yankeetown. And thanks to CL’s explanation of what a “cracker” is, you all get the irony of living between those two places.

choicelady : glenn – thank you for that. I’d heard BEFORE the vote that this would be a reasonable compromise. I am shocked though that Feinstein and Boxer wanted it. Can’t figure it out. They are both liberal to progressive (if we’re not discussing Israel…)

AdLib : AB – It is only a matter of time before TX turns purple. Maybe 15 – 20 years?

AlphaBitch : Onomatopoeia – John Prine!!!!! “Onomatopoeia, I don’t want to see ya, speakin’ in a foreign tongue”

AdLib : Truth or Consequences, NM.

choicelady : PA has Intercourse down the road a bit from Bird of Paradise.

AdLib : For onomatopoeia purposes, I always loved Pahrump, NV.

choicelady : AB – I’ve BEEN to Humptulips. It’s quite nice actually. SAturday REview back about 1971 or 72 featured a poem I’d love to find using WA state place names to write out the stanzas. VERY funny and extremely creative!

AlphaBitch : I’ve been hearing a lot of talk about the possibility of turning TX purple, which is what I want to help do. I’m going to advocate every liberal person who CAN move to a conservative disrict, take a shitty job for six months, and VOTE in 2014.

glenn : Murph–good evening. I’m trying to not be so partisan when people say “Reid caved”, and am trying to look at it as a compromise. Which is what everyone is saying what they want to see happen, but when it happens, they call it a “cave”.

AdLib : AB – Houston is barely part of the 21st century. Just kidding, know some great folks down there, one works for a union, tough to be in the political minority down there.

AlphaBitch : Texas has “Earth”. And “Plainview”. Washington state had “Humptulips” (don’t ask)

choicelady : ARRRGH – FEINSTEIN AND BOXER?????? They’re INSANE!

choicelady : AB – I lived in TN for two years. Tullahoma. A friend later asked me what it was near. “Bug Scuffle”. And that’s down the road from? “Soddy Daisy. And that’s up from? Wartrace. Names of places are great fun.

AlphaBitch : CL: Ha! I used to tell people “No, that’s in Louisiana”. I still do that for Vidor and Beaumont.

MurphTheSurf3 : Just saw Bernie Sanders on the Ed show….he made it clear that Reid got what he could given that 6 or 7 Dems were unwilling to push the button on the nuclear option. My list was Democratic Sens. Max Baucus (Mont.), Patrick Leahy (Vt.), Dianne Feinstein (Calif.), Barbara Boxer (Calif.), Joe Manchin (West. Va.) and Mark Pryor (Ark.)

AlphaBitch : Can I please have four more beers? The Muppet’s questioning of SOS made me drink.

AdLib : Evening glenn! It was a real home run of a speech!

choicelady : AdLib – I’m not sure Houston is part of Texas or anywhere. Isn’t it a world unto itself?

glenn : Good evening, all. Four more years! Loved the inaugural address!

AlphaBitch : That’s by Cut n Shoot (a real town)

AdLib : AB – Houston.

choicelady : AB – bullshit IS a good word. All the time. Everywhere.

AdLib : AB – You probably have two Planet windows open, causing a pop from each window.

choicelady : AB – I got into a 4-car accident in Seattle, being the ONLY one who was blameless. I laughed at one point and said, “This is a “Fried Green Tomatoes” experience” – and only the young woman who’d rear ended me got it. I’m older and have better insurance. It is amazing how much your insights given in humor and enthusiasm will move them and help them grow. I have all faith in thee!

AlphaBitch : Cut n Shoot?

AlphaBitch : Ad – where in TX?

MurphTheSurf3 : AB….HaH

AdLib : AB – My wife’s family is from TX so I know you not only get to use the word bullshit down there…

AlphaBitch : Am I the only one hearing double pops this evening????

AlphaBitch : Murph – I love entomology.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…again,very interesting. Love etymology.

AlphaBitch : Ad – that’s one thing I do like about Texas. You get to use the word bullshit whenever. Good word.

AdLib : CL – It’s not about the voice of prefabricated pop stars, it’s all about the image.

choicelady : AdLIb – I think I’ve never even heard Justin Bieber sing. I’d not know if I liked him or not!

AlphaBitch : CL – I come from slave owners. True. Makes me feel like poop.

AdLib : AB – Which is why I was born with a BS detector.

AlphaBitch : CL – we’ll see. I’m old and have less patience.

choicelady : AB – well there you are. You come from HONORABLE Cracker origins.

AlphaBitch : And my favorite Siamese cat (ode to Kalima)

choicelady : AB – if anyone can wrangle 20 somethng young women, it’s you. Your ‘street creds’ are impressive. YOU are impressive. You will bring order out of chaos.

AlphaBitch : Al being my ancestor….

AlphaBitch : And ole’ Al cracked a whip on ’em I’m a bettin.

choicelady : Murph – DUMB rube.

choicelady : Murph – that IS how it’s now seen, but it was just a term for a type of living people made. Too bad it’s come to mean rube.

AlphaBitch : That’s OK CL. PPOV is the type of place that lets everyone enjoy whatever it is that brings them happiness.

AdLib : AB – Some of my ancestors were well regarded cattle.

AlphaBitch : CL: one of my ancestors was a well regarded cattle driver.

choicelady : AdLib and AB – sorry but I LIKE ABBA. I like lots of other things, but I can’t fault kids for it. VERY danceable music!

AdLib : AB – She’s no longer listening to ABBA, she likes Katy Perry and other pop that kids do…though she doesn’t like Bieber (I raised her right!), along with Beatles, Pink Floyd, SRV, and many other of her parents favorites she’s grown up with.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…I have always used the word to mean rubes, bumpkins and fools. You expand the meaning for me.

AlphaBitch : Well, CL, as I told Murph – it’s all 20 something young Hispanic women and hippies from the looks of it. Will be like herding cats…..

choicelady : Murph – Crackers are and were mule and oxen drivers. Now it’s become a word for narrow minded idiots, but it is actually a term for people whose whips cracked as they moved the animals.

AlphaBitch : Yum, CL. Crullers. Love them.

choicelady : AB – that’s cool. I’m very wary of local stuff. Went to a MoveOn thing in early 2005 only to discover the ringleader hate faith people AND had no idea what “democracy” meant – he wanted to rule. So I’m interested in your experience!

AlphaBitch : Yikes, Ad. Now that’s true parental love. I’d say the little needs a stint at boarding school if’n I was subjected to ABBA (or the Bee Gees. Or Olivia Newton John.)

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….well it should be a motto given all the crackers I have to deal with.

choicelady : AB – crackers with coffee aren’t as good as crullers with coffee.

AdLib : AB – Same here though my daughter’s friend got her hooked on the film “Mamma Mia” so she was into ABBA for a brief time. Ouch!

AlphaBitch : No CL – it’s the first OFA thing I’ve got notice of down here.

choicelady : Murph – that’s a Missouri MOTTO? How terribly weird.

AlphaBitch : Crackers? Wif coffee??? Hmmmmmmm……

MurphTheSurf3 : AB…great catchy klatches catch crafty crackers (a missouri motto)

choicelady : AB – is that part of the Coffee Party or whatevever it called itself or something different?

AlphaBitch : Like the Bee Gees. They always frightened me….

AlphaBitch : Yikes, Ad. That will not work. I’m SO not a fan…

AlphaBitch : Murph – going to a coffee klatch on the 29th

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and AdLib…greeting s

AdLib : AB – You realize that AB + BA = ABBA.

AdLib : Howdy CL! Nice to see you too!

AlphaBitch : CL!!!!!

MurphTheSurf3 : AB…congrats on OFA…yeah, a bit confusing right now…an election is a clear crusade…this will be much more nuanced and episodic. As to Partying…throw n your own!

AlphaBitch : Ba. Off with their heads, I say.

choicelady : Helloooo AdLib, Alpha, and Murph! Lovely to see everyone!

AdLib : Hey Murph!

AdLib : I would bet Reid couldn’t get enough votes from Dems to reform the filibuster. It’s shameful.

AdLib : AB – I wonder if Dems are too cowardly, too afraid that they may be in the minority next time around and they want to protect their power…if the Repubs let them keep it!

AlphaBitch : Hola Murphito.

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello all….I checked in earlier but went to answer a call…so now I am here for real.

AlphaBitch : I can be ba humbug if needed.

AlphaBitch : And I can plan a party, let me tell ya…

AdLib : Whoops, that should have read “AB”!

AdLib : Ba – Then you just have to enlist them as the Democratic Party Planning Committee.

AlphaBitch : Harry Reid’s teensy tiny pair???

AdLib : Hey AB! So what do you think led to this filibuster collapse?

AlphaBitch : Murph – wanted to tell you- I joined OFA, but we seem rather rudderless down here. Most of my group are young wimmens. I think they will abandon ship if there is a party. And there is ALWAYS a party here…..

AlphaBitch : Four more tears over lack of meaningful filibuster reform. Hick.

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “4 More Years!” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

AdLib : Night all, have a great weekend!

AdLib : Murph, so true. The RW nutjobs have so overcommitted to this strategy of demonizing Obama that they have nowhere to go but this insanity. They are so over now.

MurphTheSurf3 : Well….good night…closing up tonight.

AdLib : Murph – so tr

MurphTheSurf3 : I wanted to make one more point. Look at the NewTown Truthers who are saying that Obama is either behind the shootings or behind the fiction of the shootings ALL in order to defeat the 2nd Amendment. Is there any low to which the O Haters will not go…I do not think so.

SallyT : And, I am done Murph.

SallyT : I took a potty break!

MurphTheSurf3 : I got bounced off the site 10 minutes ago. Are we done?

AdLib : Sorry all, a bit of a server issue there!

SallyT : And conspiracy theories were born!

choicelady : AdLib – I think I mentioned that a friend has a friend who is SS. He told my friend that the death threats are SO AWFUL the Obamas finally said for them NOT to tell them what has been said. Tell them what to do and not do – but never why. They couldn’t bear it. Remember how the Obamas had “date night”? They never do that anymore. They can’t. How incredibly sad.

AdLib : CL – I don’t think Obama could be more hated by the RW nutjobs than he already has been. Yes, the gun control thing could push a little bit more on these loons but from the beginning, Obama has been getting death threats each day and we’ll never hear about the kooks the SS have scared off or arrested along the way. They know there’s a real threat out there against him, I think the SS will be up to the task of keeping him safe.

SallyT : Those are the people I worry about CL. The Religious Right.

choicelady : Sally – the reason people don’t trust their government began on the Grassy Knoll. All the lies. All the things that followed – Gulf of Tonkin, WMD. It’s weird that the hype is MOSTLY on the Right, but the fact of distrust is real.

SallyT : And, Vietnam followed. More mistrust.

choicelady : AdLib – if you want a major creep out, the mystery stories written by Margaret Truman actually talk about the hidden, shadowy figures on the Religous Right behind major plots. She was well enough placed to have heard things we never will. Her last book before her death dealt with that very issue. It was written exactly as I’d imagined a plot would unfold. VERY scary.

SallyT : I do believe that we lost our innocence that day. It lead to doubt and mistrust.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- yes, your observation about Reagan and Bush being personally influential after leaving office has not been great but I think that is as much a function of how they were created (as in the case of Bush) or recreated (for Reagain) by those who are the standard bearers of a certain ideology/philoso phy. Obama will be seen as the author of a new approach….or the leader in the resurgence of older one

choicelady : AdLib – And I grow MORE worried every day. His strength is EXACTLY what goads the zealots into acting. And it’s not the people you see. It’s the ones you do NOT see who scared the bejeezus out of me. I will always think that “The Family” was behind JFK, MLK, RFK. Always.

choicelady : Sally – I was walking home from high school- we had half days – and heard from another student. I remember asking myself if this was the end of America. I think it was. Now, all these years later, we have a chance at renewal. I pray it does not get shattered again.

SallyT : rifle

AdLib : CL – I am actually growing less and less concerned for Obama’s safety as he grows stronger with each success. For some reason, it seems to make him appear less vulnerable.

SallyT : CL, I have those same fears. I remember a warm day and a handsome President with a beautiful wife in an open convertible. The country changed with a rife.

choicelady : BTW – Rachel’s coverage of abortion providers tonight brough it all back to me. I could barely watch. I know some of those folks she mentioned – and others unseen. So many people hurt, killed, maimed. It was very hard to watch.

choicelady : I think we are all in agreement about him and his ability to be transformational . Given my own sordid history though, I wake up every morning, turn on the news, and pray for happy talk, idiocy, and no bad news. I will never stop being afraid for him and his family.

AdLib : As I believe Obama will be seen as a great and transformational President as more time goes by, his keeping OFA rolling could be a living legacy with a lot of influence, something we really haven’t seen before in this way.

choicelady : I saw some montage around OFA today that had sign after sign ‘FIRED UP!’ and ‘READY TO GO!’ I thought that was wonderful. That one woman from NC he talked about has created a new energy for us ALL. And he has embraced her chant as his own – marvelous. Cannot remember any president taking something from a constituent that way before. He is the LEAST elitest person in the WH in my lifetime. And we understand that and love him for it. He makes this be about us, the people. Marvelous!

SallyT : And, I believe that those same people will make sure that he keeps hearing them. He goes out to them and they will come to him. They will hold him and push him and he will succeed because of that.

SallyT : I believe that the President spent so much time out on the campaign trail this last time among the people. He saw them stand in line for hours to vote for him. The emotions that he has shown of late leads me to believe that he wants to give back to them as much if not more than they gave to him. He shows his feelings more now because they are closer to the surface and he wants all to know he is on a mission. He wants them to know he heard them.

AdLib : Murph – Yes, Obama does seem to envision an ongoing influence and contribution to this nation which is very cool!

choicelady : Murph – I agree about Clinton as a person, but I think Reagan and Bush W. had a different kind of endurance. The presence of the Religious Right that was fixated on corporate power has left a structural presence we have to destroy. OFA as a system to create enduring change is both far more transparent AND transformative than what now lingers from the long, sordid past of the GOP. These long waves – 1980-2012 – of RW politics are beginning to change. Obama as a very public figure coupled with OFA will be a major force for change as FDR and the New Deal were.

AdLib : CL – The pundits just recycle their “conventional thinking”, as you say, because something happened a couple of times in the past, of course it will always happen that way (remember Chris Matthews stating as a fact that Obama could not win unless unemployment was under 7%?). Obama can indeed continue to achieve remarkable gains for Americans and his legacy despite the pundits BS.

SallyT : Reagan at the end of his term didn’t know where he was or did he care.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and CL….add to your assessment of the Obama 2nd term is his apparent intention to create a more lasting presence in the politics of the nation. OFA. It is as if Obama is seeing himself as one of those figures who can transform political philosophy (much as Clinton has emerged as a dominant figure in ways that neither of the Bush’s or Reagan did)

choicelady : Sally – LOL!!!

SallyT : I don’t know if Clinton dropped the ball but there were balls involved. However, Bush exploded all the balloons!

choicelady : Sally – It occurs to me that people miss the point about the second term. It’s not ‘lame duck’ as much as it is freedom to do what one wants. Bush and Clinton dropped the ball (Clinton’s was self inflicted over Monica) but Obama will run with it!

SallyT : That should have been any not and but you got it, CL.

choicelady : Sally – BEAUTIFULLY said!

SallyT : He is not running for office and more. He is now running the office.

choicelady : Sally – And what an inaugural present this gives him!

AdLib : Sally – On all those issues, just as with raising taxes on the wealthy and raising the debt ceiling, the Repubs are positioned against the wishes of the majority of Americans. It’s all bad for the Repubs, they have been exposed as only fighting for the elite and against the 99% and all of these issues underline that.

SallyT : I also think this win, a hard win it was even though the numbers proved all his, it was a fight and he won! That has put the wind under his wings.

choicelady : Sally – totally agree. I think his legacy will be amazing.

AdLib : CL – CYA is a pre-existing condition so after 2014, it is covered.

SallyT : Gun control, climate change, and immigration reform is on his agenda and I see him with blinders on. Yes, this tragedy move gun control on the list, I don’t think it was before. But, I do see him getting to so many other things he holds important to him to get done before he leave office.

choicelady : AdLib – Is CYA a covered condition?

AdLib : Murph – I do think the Repubs in The House have recognized what they most fear, that they have no leverage against Obama anymore and that they harm themselves more each time they fight Obama. So now, as you say, it’s all about CYA.

choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! Those complicated extractions may or may not be covered! Wonder if they have deductibles – is stupidity a covered condition?

choicelady : Sally – yes, I agree. I do think he was trying last term to “unify the nation”. A noble effort since he had no idea about the pact made inauguration night! But he is STANDING FIRM now, and it’s GREAT! I do agree!

AdLib : Emos and Baggers will both be in line for nose transplants. The hardest part of the procedure will first be extracting their heads from where they’re inserted.

SallyT : I think you missed the point, CL, I was making. The President held firm that he wasnt going to negotiate with those he will never get to agree with him. He went ahead with his direction and never swayed to miss the elephant in the middle of the road. I see it that way. And, sorry, but I do think he worried too much about getting along with them before and now he is on a mission.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib. I think the GOP leadership has finally convinced its rank and file that they are playing into the Dem’s hands. So, they have crafted a tissue thin strategy that will give some of them some cover but with Boehner making it clear that the Hastert Rule is dead in the last three big House votes…they do not have much choice.

choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! Nose transplants are indeed covered by ACA!

AdLib : CL – Fear and anger make people stupid, they make kneejerk reactions based on their emotions and cut off their noses to spite their faces…which fortunately is now covered by the ACA!

choicelady : AdLib – I wish the EmoProgs could see these things as clearly as you do.

choicelady : Sally – on the lame duck, the last debt ceiling, etc. Obama DID hold firm, but the MSM did a piss poor jobs of explaining what he’d accomplished. I never once worried he’d cave NOW since he’d never caved before. He let the GOP have crumbs – and THAT was called a sellout. It wasn’t. But now, post election, he is calling the shots clearly. And do you know – the EmoProgs are STILL calling it a ‘trap’. They are so clueless about policy they can’t see anything clearly!

AdLib : Are the Repubs looking like total losers or what? They keep howling about how they won’t accept any tax increase and will refuse to raise the debt ceiling…and they just collapse again and again.

choicelady : AdLib – I keep asking myself if the GOP are really THAT stupid, and the answer is yes. And the EmoProgs would do the same – sink themselves over some ideological nitpick. So I guess I have to believe this is the product of dumb.

SallyT : Well, I am glad something snapped them back in line. And, that the President held firm.

AdLib : CL – So true and so funny! The feds controlling health care in important red states? And Repub Govs are just handing it over to them? Hilarious!

choicelady : AdLib – one takes one’s allies where they are. At the moment fans of economic stability (us) are allied with the banks (yuck) for different reasons. But it gives us breathing room. That’s fine with me.

AdLib : It does seem pretty apparent and I heard news show hosts quoting Wall Street sources that they did not want the Repubs tanking the economy with profits so great right now. The Repubs got too big for their britches and their masters snapped them back in line.

choicelady : AdLib – I agree on the state exchanges, and the BIG joke is that the Red states without them but with FEDERAL programs are adding greatly to the rush to single payer or universal programs!!! Har-dee-har on them!!!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice – yes…Rachel (and her staff) have a way of pairing very interesting insights. I suspect that the money folks are doing just as you say- warning the GOP- don’t go where you say you are going.

choicelady : AdLib – since all the GOP and Santelli are invested in “loss” calls, success and stability are their economic enemies. Awwwwww. TOO BAD!

AdLib : CL – I am a fan of the ACA and thrilled about how the state exchanges provide such a viable transition to a national exchange and a unique kind of single payer type system.

choicelady : Murph – I thought Rachel’s explanation of that was AMAZING, and it’s GREAT news. Lack of volatility and high ratings is GREAT. It makes me think that behind the GOP cave on the debt ceiling resides BANKS and investors threatening them quietly off stage. Funny who your allies can be…

MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB..there is so much whimpering from the right at this point in time it is hard to discern the specific source.

AdLib : Great news Murph. Does that mean Rick Santelli is whimpering softly into his stock portfolio?

choicelady : AdLib – nope. They held up some provisions I liked (though can’t remember anymore!) but it was overall the House reluctance that kept Medicare for All from even reaching a vote. When you do the head count, you just have to figure out what is worth pursuing and what’s a dead horse. MFA was a dead horse right from the git-go. I LIKE ACA for the ground it lays for the future as well as the help it gives now to people such as Boomer and KQ and others. But it WILL be the path to some kind of universal if not quite Canadian style single payer. More like Germany, France, Switzerland.

MurphTheSurf3 : Did anyone see that the VIX the business anxiety level measure that is formally the Chicago Board Options Exchange Market Volatility Index is the lowest since before the recession and the stock market is the higest…HAPPY INAUGURATION BARACK OBAMA!

AdLib : AB – Have a wonderful weekend! And use some of those days to chill a bit!

kesmarn : You shouldn’t have put the tiara on those shelves, Frennie. Hope it gets better! G’night!

SallyT : Glenn, thank you and I will find a special something for you. You will have to guess which it is.

AdLib : Night Kes! Sleep well and thanks for everything!!!

choicelady : ‘Night night kes and AB. Sweet dreams!

AlphaBitch : NIght sweet peas. I’ll see you on Monday! I actually have an extra day off. Let’s see – all our shelving in the garage pulled out of the wall, and 10 shelves came crashing down. Welcome to my “weekend”. Bye!

kesmarn : I may follow glenn and KT and KQ out the door. Midnight here in Toodle-dee-doo as well. Have a great weekend, gang!

choicelady : AB – honest to Pete we need a progressive radio network again. Air America was GREAT but incompetent in business. We have to have that back. Pacifica out here is on the verge (again) of total collapse, and they’re too hair on fire anyway. We need Sirius to do what they can – and hope for the best on live streaming for others. It all needs to be “out there”.

SallyT : Well, get prepared for a lot of LANCE THE LYE MAN!

AdLib : Hope to see you on Monday night, glenn! Have a great weekend!

glenn : Sally–one more post before I go. Norquist has faded into the woodwork lately. Ain’t it wonderful? Don’t worry–I love your selection of cartoons even if the grover is missing.

AdLib : CL – Gotcha. Though we were just a couple of votes away from the Senate passing Medicare for all, weren’t we? I thought it was Lieberman and Nelson who sunk it.

kesmarn : Frennie, you couldn’t look like Jan if you pickled yourself in brine for 1000 years.

AlphaBitch : Yes, on Current, Murph. They will go away with AJ. But I think they may find some way to resurface. I get such a kick out of watching radio guys when they are on TV. The faces and eye rolls say it all.

choicelady : AB – OMG – get sleep! We can’t have you looking like JAN!!!

MurphTheSurf3 : Bye Glenn…

SallyT : Glenn, you do the same. I haven’t found any funny on your fav Norquist yet. But, I am still lookin’!

kesmarn : G’night, glenn. Have a great weekend and see ya Monday!

choicelady : glenn – there are a lot of us old fogeys on here. Some of us are just on the WEST coast and get to play longer. Have a great weekend and see you Monday!

AdLib : Murph – I understand your point. There’s a mercenary side to this, sometimes there is a better way and I would argue that the conservative rural agenda is not best for American society in the 21st century.

AlphaBitch : What time do you guys start on MOnday? I’m blurry eyed and I need some shut eye or I will look like Bonefinger tomorrow.

MurphTheSurf3 : AB….where to you tape Stephanie Miller…..on Current? I love her but fear she is going away soon with the El Jazeera buy out.

glenn : Okay, folks, it’s getting on to midnight here on the East Coast and the old people like me can’t stay up much past that. Have a great weekend all. Hope to be here Monday for the Inauguration.

choicelady : AB – Never occurred to me Jan was supporting Medicaid because SHE might need it! LOL!!!

SallyT : No, she counted the Mexicans in her backyard and knew that times they are a changin!

AlphaBitch : My ONE guilty pleasure these days is taping Stephanie Miller on Current and playing it back while I make dinner. I laugh so hard I’ve snorted a time or two…..

choicelady : AdLib – OH GOOD! I will keep in touch and go back and forth between hubby and PPOV!

kesmarn : It’s too late for redemption, Headless Jan….

AlphaBitch : She heard the cryptmaker calling her home, I guess, CL.

choicelady : AB – yes Bone FInger DID it and said it was the MORAL thing she had to do.Her freaking hypocrisy was breathtaking!

AdLib : CL – Sure, we will Live Blog on Monday for the Inauguration!

glenn : kes–I think she’s beautiful. For a tall woman, she holds herself with such grace and elegance. I’ve known many tall women who “stoop”, and Mrs. Obama just holds herself so proudly.

AlphaBitch : FLOTUS rocks the bangs, that’s fer shure.

kesmarn : I think I saw that too. Headless Jan had a moment of sanity? Sunstroke?

choicelady : AdLib – nope. The House did not support Medicare for All. We counted House votes – 98 was all I could get.They didn’t trust it. Same issue as CA – the single payer people did not do the groundwork to get the support. ACA lays the path to single payer – and the single payer people can’t even SEE it. But in 2010 – 98 votes. Period. And a handful in the Senate. Over all you HAD to have 278, both houses. We were nowhere near that just on HOUSE lack of support.

SallyT : I do like that she has several dresses off the rack and she wears them several times at several events.

AlphaBitch : So did I read somewhere that old BoneFinger Brewer had captiulated and decided to extend Medicaid?

kesmarn : glenn, I don’t think she realizes how pretty she is.

kesmarn : No…I liked the dress she wore at the convention better.

AdLib : CL – Well, The House appeared to support Medicare For All and all we needed was for the Senate to do so…that was single payer without saying it was.

AlphaBitch : Frennie – you and I can pretend we loaned it to her. To be honest, I did not really like the white ball gown last time.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- and they would argue that Progressive leadership is exactly what they are afraid of.

choicelady : AB – no, but I drove some other weird road between Rock Springs and Laramie WY that was amazing. Of course my car broke down and had to be scrapped in Laramie, but that’s a whole long ugly story…coupled by the fact that 20 years later I broke down going BACK to CA and wound up in the same damned motel junking the rental truck. I now call it the Laramie Triangle…

glenn : Kes–a dress to die for to go with her new hairstyle.

AdLib : Murph – I would argue though that instead of holding the majority of the nation back and fighting progress, that WY and other rural states would be forced to follow the more Progressive ones.

kesmarn : Michelle’s gonna have a dress to die for. You know it.

AlphaBitch : Oooh – fashion watch Monday.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL- and yet the Framers were very cautious about the issue of basing representation solely on population. States with small populations always have few seats in the House but their charter membership in the Union is balanced by an equal number of seats in the Senate. The electoral college was meant to capture both notions.

choicelady : KT – have a good rest and great weekend. Ad Lib – are we doing anything live on the inauguration?

AlphaBitch : Anyone here ever drive Hwy 287 from Ft. Collins CO to Laramie WY? One of the prettiest drives in the US, IMHO.

SallyT : Night KT! I’ll watch for you later on here somewhere. I bet I know where, too!

choicelady : AdLib – I don’t think single payer would have flown in the House. I counted at MOST 98 votes for it there. The Senate did try (Baucus) to squeeze ACA, but they failed. I think things work out as they are going to anyway. So I don’t see the Senate as a problem. Of course today it’s the minority in the GOP that are THE problem in the HOUSE! As Gilda used to say – it’s always something. I just think, over all, the system pretty much works.

kesmarn : We would have both been wrong, Frennie. Orange.

AlphaBitch : Kes: what color was it? I would have guessed silver.

SallyT : Look, Wyoming is going to do as they please no matter. They are oil cowboys up there!

kesmarn : G’Night, KT!

AdLib : Heading out KT? Have a great weekend!

kesmarn : You snooze, you lose, Frennie! That tiara is MINE. (Even though I did guess the wrong color for the black box…

glenn : Good night KT–sleep well.

AlphaBitch : Mwah KT. Big wet one, bud.

KillgoreTrout : Well good Planeteers, have a wonderful weekend, and long may you run!

AlphaBitch : Kes: Frennie – I whipped your butt on dwarf trivia on MB, but never got to go back and claim the tiara. That sucked.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….archaic in one sense but also part of the checks and balances that Framers considered. Even in 1789 the issue of population prejudice factored heavily into this structure. Wyoming has a tiny population – so it would have few members of the House and only one Senator- permanent minority status and diminishing influence….

AdLib : CL – When the Dems held The House, it was all about The Senate being dominated…the country being dominated by the small minded Senators from small population states. Tyranny of the minority…other wise, we would have had single payer and it would have happened in Obama’s first year.

AlphaBitch : Ad: I’m filling my pockets with Double Bubble gum and I’m gonna pop a pink “cap” on Gohmert’s ugly face.

choicelady : Murph – I think that’s quite true, but overall the vote is the vote. Wherever it comes from, majority rules. That’s democracy.

glenn : AdLib–another good wish. Is it just me, or does anyone else think we have really come to a “definitive moment” or moments, in our country, and it’s time to take a look at some of our governing structures and perhaps bring them more in line with equality for all? Some of these governing procedures were made for wealthy, white men only, and had no concessions for anything else. I believe that’s where we’re running into a lot of conflict because we are actually trying to include ALL citizens in the effort of voting and governing, and there were no provisions made for anyone else.

kesmarn : A dollar! AB, you can buy ad space for the Planet on the Rush Limbaugh show!!

SallyT : Murph, but that is true already.

AlphaBitch : CL: I do now own 2 – count ’em 2 – pink MB mugs. I have a very dear and sweet friend who always chooses THAT mug when she comes to visit. I decided to donate and get another mug, that way we can share and I won’t sit around in a snit.

choicelady : AdLib – I think the Senate is not a problem overall. That’s hard to hijack. But the proportional representation crap for the electoral college is a vile distortion since it reflects NOTHING of the vote which, at least putatively, it now does.

AdLib : AB – Take the weekend off. And here’s a dollar, by yourself something nice!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the problem with undoing the Electoral College in favor of a population based election is that it makes the urban centers so powerful that they they would be the campaign –

AlphaBitch : My Congressional wish list is simple. Have stand alone bills. Period. Yea or nay.

choicelady : AB – I’m sure we can be persuaded to double your Planet salary. And time off can be extended indefinitely. Does that help? Sorry you’re so exhausted!

KillgoreTrout : AB, too much work and not enough play makes Debbie a very dull gal!

AdLib : Murph – I think that’s archaic though, states may have different POVs but we are now so integrated as one nation that giving Wyoming, with half a million residents, as much power to pass national health care as CA with 37 million people just isn’t good.

AlphaBitch : All this talk of gerrymandering is precisely why I want to quit the $$ job and volunteer to get something done – politically speaking.

kesmarn : Will send a note to the Blov to take you out to dinner and dancing.

choicelady : Murph and AdLib – I’m fine with the system AS IT HAS BEEN. I don’t want to tinker with it. I want it to work. And if we have to change anything, let it be the end of the electoral college. Otherwise it’s been effective, and we should muck up the original system as little as possible. If it aint’ broke – and most of it isn’t – do NOT fix it!

AlphaBitch : You’re not the boss of me, Ad. Well, OK, sometimes you are. Hey! I want a raise and more freakin’ days off, please.

AlphaBitch : Too much work, not enough fun. What’s new with you?

AdLib : AB – You aren’t allowed to be quiet or tired, it’s in your contract.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I like your idea of neutering the gerrymandering process for the House. The Senate…that one I am less convinced of as the Framers wanted to balance representation by population and representation of each of the individual states as entities unto themselves.

choicelady : Hey AB – you OK? How come tired?

AlphaBitch : AB in da house, CL. Just quiet and tired tonight.

kesmarn : Come down here, right now, young lady!

SallyT : Don’t you think with more computers that it will change in time?

AdLib : glenn – I would add one more wish for the Supreme Court, make them one-term 15 year appointments. Lifetime is crazy and getting stuck with bad justices like Scalia and Thomas for an entire generation is nuts.

choicelady : Come back AB!

glenn : Murph, Thanks for the info.

choicelady : Huh – AlphaBitch came and then disappeared. Sorry to see her go!

choicelady : glenn – As I understand it the founders did not trust democracy and the electoral college WAS a hedge against unfettered mob rule. It’s been a nightmare though – and with these efforts to hijack it, it’s time to END it.

glenn : AdLib–I like your magic wish.

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…recall that as originally laid out members of the Senate were selected by their state legislatures. In the original plan only members of the House were elected by popular vote. The Framers did not trust “the mob.”

KillgoreTrout : kes, they say God protects children and drunks. I think my friend had some sort of protector that night!

KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend KQ!

SallyT : He was long gone, CL. He left the door open, too.

glenn : Sally–Sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question. I never understood why we had an electoral college in the first place, and just didn’t go with the popular vote.

AdLib : Night KQ! Take care my friend!

choicelady : Goodnight KQ – keep us posted on how you are and have a GOOD weekend!

choicelady : kes – they were wonderful cats. They were lousy “mousers”.

AdLib : Sally – If I could get a magic wish, it would be to revamp two Congressional things. First, make gerrymandering illegal, districts would only be created by a bipartisan committee but carving out safe seats would be illegal. And change the Senate so that each state only got one and the rest were distributed based solely on population. Allowing the minority to have so much power is self-destructive .

choicelady : Sally – that is pretty funny! I am presuming the driver who stole the car was long gone? How fuel inefficient of him!

SallyT : Well, Glenn, than why not the popular vote if it isn’t quicker the other way?

kesmarn : Oh, KT. He picked the wrong place to walk into!

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ hardly had a chance to say hello. Pleasant dreams.

choicelady : KT – EXCELLENT! We can’t end the supermajority vote on taxes in CA since we are tax phobic, but we now HAVE supermajorities in both houses. We shall see what this means.

kesmarn : G’night, KQ. Feel better soon!

KillgoreTrout : kes, I used to live in an old New England farm house, and we shared half of it with a local cop and his family. One night, my inebrirated friend wondered into the wrong half. He came within inches of being shot.

glenn : Good night KQ

kesmarn : You were kind, c’lady. And yes, you did have a bunch of Garfields there.

KQµårk 死神 : Good night folks.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- only one other country has a system like ours and that is Liberia which is a total mess. Most of the world uses a Parliamentary System of some kind.

choicelady : kes – I believe all other developed nations go with JUST the popular vote.

SallyT : CL, we woke up one morning to find a new car in our front yard still running. It had been stolen some 40 miles away.

choicelady : kes – I live trapped the rat and took it out to an island and let it go. No other took its place. But I was NOT happy with the cats who were all sleeping very nearby. I’m sure they were bribed.

glenn : Sally–I think it actually takes longer to certify the electoral results. If I remember correctly, the electoral votes for the presidential election were just certified on Jan. 1.

kesmarn : I should know the answer to this but– do other countries have anything like an electoral college? Or do they go with popular vote?

choicelady : kes – unfortunately the times when we could not lock our doors were long, long ago. Sorry you guys got a scare. I came home a few months ago to find someone passed out in my front garden, but at least he wasn’t inside! He was just homeless and tired. But…

KillgoreTrout : I have signe two different petitions now that call for the end of the supermajority. And the filibuster.

kesmarn : Oooooh…I would be avoiding that china cabinet, c’lady. Paper plates indefinitely until that guy was gone!

SallyT : And why can’t we elect on popular vote? I mean they do count those, too. Or is it easier for the election to be called quicker with the electral.

choicelady : kes – I’m surprise fat cats would bother with mice. I had three with a neighbor’s cat as regular visitor AND had a rat living under the china cabinet. I think the rat paid the cats off, and they were too well fed to care.

kesmarn : A drunken guy wandered into our house in rural CT years ago. Fortunately he was harmless. We were so dumb. After that we locked our doors.

KillgoreTrout : CL, I like that. Well said. My mom took care of a female, feral cat for 14 years. You know that cat would not let my mom pet her, at all. Mom didn’t care, she just loves cats.

AdLib : Murph – That’s a point that most of these RW no nothing about, Jefferson wanting another (if not more) Constitutions.

choicelady : Keep hitting the return – what if the fourth one got 5-10 percent and was an extremist? He or she would have EXACTLY the same authority as those who got significant wins. There is a belief that giving the GOP a “win” in San Francisco and the Dems a “win” in Orange county somehow makes things better. It’s not remotely true.

glenn : KT–yup–we had several of those hard-drinking friends in the “row houses” too.

choicelady : Damn – 5-10

choicelady : All – the phenomenon of minority rule is very recent. The founding fathers weighed in heavily against “supermajoritie s” that gave undue power to the minority. Even Liberals think proportional representation is a good thing – you could have districts made up of four Senators with the top four winners having equal power. Well, what if the fourth got only 5-10

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice/Glenn…o ur Constitution is really full of holes that have never been plugged – the Electoral College is one of them. What happens when a fundamental law can only be passed with compromises high and low. Jefferson assumed that after 12 or so years of trying it out a second Constitutional Convention would do a 2.0

AdLib : Murph – Yes, this is what concerns me, purple states having their electoral votes manipulated to favor the minority Repubs.

kesmarn : I do have nice neighbors, c’lady. AND…no mice.

KillgoreTrout : glenn, I had a hard drinking friend that would, on occasion, do the same thing

SallyT : The rural areas don’t like the metro areas deciding. That would change OR from blue to red. Those 25 people over there in eastern Oregon could change our color!

choicelady : kes – obese strays are the sign of a kind neighborhood.

choicelady : Murph – yuck. That is scary – recipe for disaster!!!

glenn : Murph–that’s even more scary.

kesmarn : There are about 5 strays in this neighborhood and I suspect I’m not the only one who feeds ’em. They are getting kinda obese.

KillgoreTrout : CL, the elderly that have made a point of always becoming, are the wisest of the wise.

choicelady : glenn – I knew about a cat named Slash who could open those levers. He was completely free in his own home since all the doors had them. NO one could stop him! Good thing your doors had locks!

MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, KT, Choice, Ad Lib…THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE…preced ent is that stats decide how to distribute their electoral votes….see «link» for an example from Nebraska and Maine.

SallyT : Dah, I meant to say, that the population of many states probably wouldnt go along with the popular vote NOT counting.

choicelady : KT – I have to bang on my car every morning to make sure no cats are underneath. We keep the garage “person” door open so they have refuge in this cold. They have homes. They just don’t GO there. In that respect they are really dumb.

KillgoreTrout : Well sure Sally. Superman is getting up there in years!

glenn : CL–When I lived overseas, the outside doors had levers instead of knobs. The cat next door learned how jump up and push on the lever to let himself into the house. Since we lived in “row houses”, the cat sometimes got confused as to which house was his. We had to keep our door locked, so he just couldn’t walk in.

SallyT : I don’t think the population of many states would go along with the popular vote that counting.

choicelady : KT – I knew, worked with , and adored Maggie Kuhn, founder of the Gray Panthers. Her motto: Stand up and speak even if your voice shakes. Words to live by! She was about 85 pounds, absolutely gorgeous, and one of the smartest people I ever met.

AdLib : Supergramps!

kesmarn : Good for Mikey and the MRFF, c’lady!

SallyT : KT, I thought that was Superman?

choicelady : kes – these two cats are on my side. I’ve bribed them with kibble for years. I did hear about the West Point group – and I think Mikey Weinstein and Military Relgious Freedom Foundation had a LOT to do with that!

KillgoreTrout : Sally, my favorite group is the Grey Panthers. A combined effort among the elderly to fight for truth, justice and the American way! ‘)

AdLib : Sad how the Repub extremists both attack Obama as a “dictator” and meanwhile want their minority party to dominate the majority. Do they know what a “dictator” is?

choicelady : glenn – this IS the result of the EmoProg rant in 2010 “Don’t vote and send a message to the Dems”. So yeah – this is very scary. Only way around it is to court enough Dems in gerrymandered districts to overwhelm the redistricting OR to raise a citizens redistricting commission as we did here. Only states with initiatives can really get that done. It’s an uphill fight.

KillgoreTrout : Cl, we once had a cat that loved to get in peoples cars and go for a ride. More than once, we got a call from a stranger wanting to know if Sammy was our cat!

kesmarn : He may be a fundie cat, c’lady. Be careful. When they get a load of catnip, they can be dangerous. BTW, did you hear that a West Point think tank declared RW fundies a real danger to Homeland Security?

AdLib : As the Repubs “whites only” demographic shrinks, they can only try to rig the democratic system through voter ID, awarding electoral votes by district, etc. Of course, they could become a less batshit party but that ain’t gonna happen for some time.

SallyT : By george Kt I think it would!

KillgoreTrout : Sally, wouldn’t that be The Purple Panthers?

glenn : KT–To me, this is more scary than anything else the GOP has done so far. Even though the Dems had more votes than the GOP, they still hold the House (and still are holding the country hostage). They got away with that; is there any way we can stop this electoral college nonsense? At least they’re beginning it well before the elections so it can be brought to court, if necessary.

SallyT : The Pink/Black Panther?

choicelady : kes – we have a solid 2/3 majority of Dems in both houses. No way will this fly here. BTW – the black and white cat is now on my car in the drive. No end to the excitement on a Friday night.

KillgoreTrout : Frisk the Cat was too cool for school! Compliments of Ralph Bakshi!

AdLib : You’re just a cat, right, like I’ve never heard that one before!

choicelady : AdLib – it’s a BLACK cat. All is well.

kesmarn : That’s what I gathered, too, c’lady. What are Dems in CA planning, do you think?

choicelady : glenn – so far nothing has been done, but we are trying to see if it’s legal for states to do this differently or if there has to be ONE standard across the nation. We don’t know.

SallyT : Stick up your paws, you pussy!

KillgoreTrout : glenn, I don’t really know. I tend to think that it would require a congressional action of some sort.

AdLib : Or give it Friskies!

AdLib : CL – Frisk the cat!

choicelady : kes – the Red states that aren’t really Red such as OHIO, want to have electoral results mirror the Districts. Not the popular vote which has been heavily BLUE but the DISTRICTS. That could easily have handed the election to Romney. In CA there’s not a prayer this will work, but in those states that are more Blue voters but that have Red legislatures – it’s a huge danger.

AdLib : I wonder from time to time if there will be some incdent or moment that comes where there is a real Awakening for people in America…where they realize what has really gone wrong and what is really going on…and just say, “Enough!”?

glenn : KT–I’m well aware why the gop wants to change the electoral college; they know they can never win another election with their extremism. That’s why they use gerrymanding and fraud to win. But is it legal what they’re doing with the electoral college?

SallyT : AdLib, I am serious about those reality shows. I get a little put out that they show that lying, cheating, and deception is how you win the prize/money. What does that teach children?

KillgoreTrout : Good to see ya here Murph!

choicelady : OK – paranoia gives way to laughs. Our security lights just went on. Turned on the camera -it’s the neighbor’s cat walking on my car. Not EVERYTHING is the religious right up to no good!

kesmarn : c’lady, how do they plan to do that?

KillgoreTrout : glenn the GOP wants to change the electorial college because the electorial college handed Romney his hat and kicked him out the door. Romney was thoroughly trounced.

SallyT : Thank you, Murph!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….I would never pass you by or up intentioanlly

choicelady : kes – we even have a movement to parcel out electoral votes here in the VERY Blue state of CA!

SallyT : That is how I see it, too, AdLib. Acceptance of deception, that is how you win those reality shows too.

MurphTheSurf3 : Welcome KT

AdLib : glenn – That’s the bottom line, the illness that’s spread through our society. It doesn’t matter how horrible a person you are, if you win, if you make a lot of money, you’re to be respected.

choicelady : Sally – WE know you’re here! Murph’s just catching up.

kesmarn : glenn, I saw that too. I think that one would go all the way to the Supreme Court. The GOP is basically trying to gerrymander the entire country.

choicelady : glenn – a lot of Constitutional attorneys are trying to determnine if states can, willy nilly, start apportioning their electoral votes. No one ever tried this before. No one really knows.

AdLib : Sally – Yes, I think the public’s acceptance of deception is saddening, accepting that politicians of course are going to lie to you as are your heroes but as long as they say what they want to hear, it’s okay. There is a psychological disease in our society. So many who should be eschewed are celebrated or accepted at the least. What happened to principles?

SallyT : That’s okay, Murph, I have been passed over before.

KillgoreTrout : Very cool Murph, that’s for info.

glenn : CL–Winning at any cost reminds me of something else that I heard this week. Anybody know what’s up with republicans/tpar tiers trying to change how the electoral college counts states’ votes? Is it legal for states to amend the electoral college rules?

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Sally and Funk…just trying to catch up based on the running lines…..

kesmarn : Here I was, feeling all sorry for Monti T’eo…

SallyT : Excuse me, Murph! But Funk and I are here, too.

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello to AdLib, Choicelady and Glenn. What are we talking about?

KillgoreTrout : LOL CL! Elephants are also compassionate! So much for them being an apt mascot.

AdLib : Manti Te’o is a proven liar about the phony girlfriend. Whether he knew at first or not is irrelevant, he lied later on after knowing full well it was a hoax. Lance Armstrong is a self-entitled shit who ruined many lives to fulfill his greed, no different than the GOP.

choicelady : SAlly – that is as good an explanation as ANY. Murph – I knew Nast created the symbol, but I’ve never been sure why.

SallyT : I thought it was an elephant because elephants love nuts.

MurphTheSurf3 : KT. The GOP Elephant. This symbol of the party was born in the imagination of cartoonist Thomas Nast and first appeared in Harper’s Weekly on November 7, 1874. See: «link»

choicelady : KT – the elephants had no say at all in being picked to be the symbol of a corrupt pile of politicians. Oh – that pile thing may be apt?

glenn : Hi Murph!

glenn : AdLib–what fraud of the GOP? I thought they were the “true Americans.” There are not words to describe how I feel about Lance Armstrong. Slime is too good a word for him. As for Manti Te’o, just someone falling for another scam. Or maybe just someone perpetuating another scam. Not enough info. on that one.

AdLib : KT – I don’t buy Manti Te’o’s story anyway, he’s already been proven to lie about it being a legit girlfriend, he’s a fraud.

choicelady : AdLib – I’m not sure about Manti Te’o – He may have been “had”, but the desire to win at ANY COST certainly afflicts the GOP and Lance. I can understand Lance, a cancer survivor, way more than the GOP who ARE a cancer.

kesmarn : c’lady, it would depend…

KillgoreTrout : I can’t understand why the elephant can be the mascot for the GOP! Elephants are smart!

SallyT : AdLib, do you think it is because we have just accepted that their is fraud in everything?

AdLib : CL – Elephants have been so tortured and murdered, very glad to hear all is well with them there.

choicelady : kes – the thought of riding Newt makes me ill…

choicelady : Hey Murph! Lovely to see you. I just joined OFA today!

AdLib : Hey Murph! That’s very cool news!

KillgoreTrout : I have no pity for someone who falls for such an internet scam. Don’t these folks realize that, on the net, you can be anybody you want to be?

choicelady : AdLIb – it’s an elephant sanctuary for a certain strain of elephants that would otherwise be extinct from poaching. I’ve forgotten what they are – but there are hundreds of them living on this island. Outside of ferrying tourists, the elephants have wonderful lives and great care.

AdLib : CL – That sounds very cool, my daughter would love that…until she gets sore from riding an elephant.

MurphTheSurf3 : Better late than never……plann ing an inauguration day event for Dems in the areas….kickoff to the new Organizing for Action that was Obama for AMerica.

funksands : Choice, that seems a bit pretentious to me. They should at least be forced to lasso the elephant and tame it.

AdLib : SO, does anyone see a parallel between the fraud of the GOP, Lance Armstrong and Manti Te’o as exemplifying a social system that has lost a modicum of integrity?

kesmarn : Can we saddle Newt Gingrich, c’lady?

choicelady : AdLib – my chiropractor and his husband went to Bali over Christmas and stayed at the ‘elephant resort’ a couple of days. You have a raised hut – very elegant – and come and go via a platform that lets you mount the saddle on your own elephant. They LOVED it!

KillgoreTrout : Lava hotel? Dante’s Inferno?

SallyT : Okay, I can see the connection….?? ??

funksands : Sally: Chuck Norris and Ice and Flu

choicelady : AdLib – oh yeah – LAVA hotel? NOT ON, thank you!

AdLib : Hey Sally!

SallyT : Okay, don’t make me scroll down, what are we talking about?

AdLib : CL – My wife wants to go to that ice hotel on a Xmas one day. Better I suppose than that lava hotel in the South Pacific.

KillgoreTrout : Sally is in da widget? Hey Sally, how goes it?

choicelady : AdLib – That’s Chuck’s limit OK.

choicelady : KT – you just put things into perspective. Indeed they have been.

glenn : Hi Sally!

kesmarn : Hey, Sally!

funksands : Hi Sally!

choicelady : Hey Sally! Great to see you!

KillgoreTrout : Ha, the Inuits have been staying in ice hotels for centuries now!

AdLib : CHUCK NORRIS: “You’re from Biloxi, that’s in Miss…er…The South.”

SallyT : Good evening all of you here!

glenn : KT–you took the words right out of my mouth (computer?). Norris would have had to someone else read the 4-syllable words for him and explain what they meant.

choicelady : funk – sorry your family is sick! Have you all been brought low by the flu?

choicelady : funk – I have friends from Portland who stayed in that “ice hotel” in Scandinavia or Lapland or somewhere. They spent ONE night and really liked it. But one night WAS enough.

funksands : Bad colds only I hope.

kesmarn : Awwww….flu?

KillgoreTrout : Ad, It wasn’t hard to believe. I don’t think I ever heard him utter more than 4 syllable words!

funksands : Kes, I’m well. The rest of family is sick as dogs, so I can’t stay long.

choicelady : AdLib – I’m a constant sucker for your “facts”! You say it. I believe it.

funksands : Ad, you ought to take your daughter to the Harbin Ice Festival in China. High on my bucket list. «link»

KillgoreTrout : Ad, see, that proves there is no global warming, or so say the anti-science crowd!

kesmarn : Funk! How are ya!?

choicelady : funk – that’s right out of “Thurber Carnival”: “Well if I called the wrong number, why did YOU answer the phone?” It was witty when Thurber wrote it. It’s paranoid when Chuck beleives it.

AdLib : CL – I was just joking about Norris and 4 syllables!

AdLib : CL – She’s only seen snow a few times but there shouldn’t be ice on the ground in LA!

funksands : Chuck Norris does not call a wrong number. You answer the wrong phone.

choicelady : KT – LOL!!!

KillgoreTrout : Ad, if you called him monosyllabic, he wouldn’t understand the word.

kesmarn : Twinkle***twinkl e***twinkle***

choicelady : kes – is it the wind causing your power issues? Yikes!

funksands : Choice, that’s what I was thinking. Humans are awesome.

choicelady : AdLib – so someone actually counted the numbers of syllables Norris uttered? That’s ALSO very funny!

AdLib : Kes – You won’t disappear as long as we all believe in you and clap our hands three times!

funksands : I did not know that.

AdLib : Hey Funk! Fun fact: Chuck Norris has never spoken a 4 syllable word on film.

choicelady : Hey funk – welcome and thanks – that is FUNNY!

choicelady : AdLib – she thought it was GLASS? Oh, my. You need to get her to Vermont in December to see snow fall, ice form, REAL cold. That’s evidence she’s TOO wedded to Southern CA!

funksands : Chuck Norris drank vodka once. Vodka passed out.

kesmarn : Folks, my lights have dimmed twice since I signed on, so if I vanish you’ll know I retreated to the dark ages.

AdLib : CL – If it was really about what they claim, it wouldn’t be so ugly. Just as with using the ACA to justify their racism and hatred of Obama and those they see as different, this gun issue is just another vehicle for justifying their expression of self-righteousne ss and hatred.

KillgoreTrout : That’s funny Ad!

choicelady : KT – nothing served up by Hollywood seems to be beyond their belief system. Chuck like Marion Wayne before him, wears makeup, recites PREWRITTEN lines, and stages carefully crafted stunts. You’re right – all rigged for safety. They honest to God think this is reality. And so do way too many movie viewers. Scary.

AdLib : Been freezing literally here in LA until today (my daughter saw ice in the gutter one morning and my wife had to explain it wasn’t broken glass). Santa Ana winds came in, suddenly warm today.

choicelady : All – the screaming over at PoliticusUSA on gun issues is beyond awful. Very scary how violent these people are. NOTHING moves them to rational discussion.

glenn : CL–It’s not a “paradise” the gun nuts are living in. It’s a fool’s paranoid cave.

kesmarn : I’m in for the night now, thank goodness. Had a dinner this p.m. Fun, but good to be home. What’s the main topic tonight? Gun control?

KillgoreTrout : Hey CL, Chuck Norris is a god to these gun nuts. You are absolutely correct, they don’t stop to realize that all of Chuck’s enemies are firing blanks and the explosions are rigged for safety. They also salivate over the Rambo films.

AdLib : I don’t think the Repubs truly believe all the BS they’re spewing. It’s all just ways to vent their fear, racism and hatred, that’s why it’s so irrational and absurd.

choicelady : kes – ah yes. WIND CHILL. The scourge of winter, IMHO. Well, stay warm INSIDE if you can!

kesmarn : “Only” in the low 30s here, KT and c’lady, but WINDY. Feels colder.

choicelady : AdLib – I’m familiar with that scence in “The Pianist”. The NRA dudes are living in a fool’s paradise. They all believe Chuck Norris defines reality.

choicelady : Hi kes – how is the weather there tonight? I get reports from Y’town, and it’s been bizarre.

AdLib : KQ – That has to be so painful! Hope you’re taking your painkillers and getting what sleep you can.

kesmarn : Hey, AdLib!

glenn : CL–Well, of course the Jews couldn’t have stopped the military forces. We all know that; why don’t repubs? Then, of course, repubs also say that MLK would “approve” of “gun appreciation day”. How did MLK die again?

choicelady : Oh gosh, KQ – that is definitely worth waiting around for. I have a friend – Mary Jo Laughlin – who is in Virginia and is a leading oncologist on exactly those issues. You can Google her and see if she’s available to help you. She was at Duke for a time but I think no longer. I REALLY want you to be able to get this to work!!! She was my landlady back in the 80s and her husband had leukemia. She went to med school and then became amazing in this battle.

KillgoreTrout : Hey kes, how’s my homie doing this evening?

AdLib : Hey Kes!

AdLib : CL – Watching the movie “The Pianist” also gives a glimpse. Rebels fire from a building, a tank turns and blows it up with a shell.

KillgoreTrout : I watched a video on youtube earlier, of an Apache attack helicopter, just wasting a well entrenched Taliban group. The helicopter turned on it’s miniguns, that fire 2000 rounds per minute. It took about a minute and a half, to completely wipe out the Taliban fighters.

kesmarn : Black ice is scary, c’lady. Glad you were spared that. KQ, will be sending good thoughts/prayers your way.

AdLib : CL – Should we at least get it to another legislator while we wait for Darrell?

choicelady : AdLib et al. – If anyone wants to understand the Warsaw ghetto, they REALLY need to read Leon Uris’s “Mila 18”. There was NO way that the Jews of the ghetto could ever have stopped the military forces. Not even early in the game.

glenn : Hi Kes–it’s cold here in GA too. We were supposed to have “black ice” with the rain yesterday, but thankfully, we were spared. Still cold, though.

KQµårk 死神 : Not quite CL. I’ve got a bit of a healthcare fight underway right now. They are trying to fix my bone marrow so I can make some better blood naturally.

choicelady : glenn – thank you!!!

choicelady : AdLib – I am worried we wont’ make Leg. Counsel which we HAVE to do. We may be stuck pushing this into a gut and amend (VERY bad idea) or waiting til next year. Sigh. I’m working everyone I can.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, that is the height of insanity while trying to seem sane. To think for even a minute that small arms fire could win out over all the deadly weapons our government has at it’s disposal.

AdLib : KQUARK! Great to see ya!

glenn : Hey CL–good to hear your good news all around.

kesmarn : Good Friday evening, kids. Just home from the Mercy dinner thing. It’s COLD here in the rust belt.

AdLib : CL – Will we hear something from Darrel’s staff next week? Time is short as you know…too short for dead horses!

choicelady : Hi KQ!!!! How are you? WHERE are you? You a Yankee yet?

glenn : Hi KQ.

KillgoreTrout : Hey KQ, long time no see.

choicelady : Gosh AdLib – my money was on Bubba and Lum, not Zeke and Lem. There’s where we libruals went wrong. Bet on the wrong mules.

KQµårk 死神 : Hey gang.

AdLib : CL – Good point, some did have weapons…but facing the might of the Nazi war machine, they had no chance…as these moronic RW gun nuts would have no chance against an actual tyrannical US with attack helicopters and killer drones…and a trained and heavily armed military. Yet Zeke and Lem are gonna save America with their stockpile of weapons?

KillgoreTrout : Ad, mind boggling, isn’t it?

choicelady : Hey glenn, KT – all is very good. I’m not a widow, my grant proposal is circulating, and I lost two pounds. What could be better?

KillgoreTrout : The thing that saved any remaining Jews in Warsaw, was the Russian army.

choicelady : Hey right back atcha, Ad Lib! Susan has the bill over to Darrell’s staff. Nothing more than that. She asked if I wanted her to send it to Dickinson, and I recommended others instead. He’s the proverbial dead horse…

glenn : Hey CL–what’s happening?

KillgoreTrout : Good to see ya CL! I hope all is well!

AdLib : Hey CL!

AdLib : KT – Yeah, those are brilliant arguments. If Nazis had only let Jews have machine guns and slave owners in the US had given rifles to arriving slaves…can’t imagine why they wouldn’t.

choicelady : Hi everyone – just caught up. The Jews DID have guns in Warsaw ghetto – and Molotov cocktails, etc. – fat lot of good it did. Thanks, glenn – had not seen THAT farce this time.

glenn : KT–The “logic” of the repubs never fails to astonish me. Sometimes it’s just jaw-dropping that they can say these things with a straight face. And then get insulted when people push back with facts. Of course, who needs facts when you have “god on your side”.

KillgoreTrout : I think the NRA is really feeling the heat. They won’t admit that Sandy Hook was the last straw for many, many Americans, but they do realize that it was.

AdLib : glenn – Wish it wasn’t the case but they won’t argue against that in their actions. They throw tantrums, they threaten to hold their breath until the nation’s economy crashed, they want ridiculous and unrealistic things, they are terminally and intellectually immature.

KillgoreTrout : Yeah glenn, I’ve seen that argument. Those brave Jews that did take on the Nazis in Warsaw, lost and dies in the gas chambers or were shot or hung in the streets of Warsaw!

glenn : AdLib–I keep trying to not look at repubs as emotionally retarded 10-year-old boys, but they keep showing me that they are.

AdLib : The thing about the Repubs is that they, like their real symbol, Romney, will take any side of an issue, even one completely opposite of where they stood yesterday, if they think it will help them “win” at least a round of “the game”. They are morally vacant, they have no principles or ethics, they are just consumed with greed.

glenn : AdLib–I know, diversity scares the hell out of them.

KillgoreTrout : The people in the civil rights movement were true Christians, not the “in name only,” ones.

AdLib : glenn – Once I started looking at Repubs as emotionally retarded 10 year old boys, it all seemed to make sense. The sense of entitlement comes from generations of racism, it is latent racism mixing with aggressive racism. Only whites should have power, whites who think just like them. Yep, that’s their idea of democracy.

glenn : AdLib–and the newest is that if the Jews had had guns in the Warsaw ghetto, then the Holocaust wouldn’t have happened. As Jon Stewart said, it didn’t matter that it took the combined forces of Britain, France, Russia, and the United States to defeat the Nazis, the Jews could have done it all by themselves if only they had had guns! Amazing “logic”, isn’t it?

KillgoreTrout : Excellent point glenn. They have not earned the right to believe they are owed some sort of entitlement or privilege.

KillgoreTrout : It’s like the old TP signage that says “keep your government hands off my Medicare!”

AdLib : KT – It’s just a stupid game. Hey, they’re saying how they wish black people had guns during the civil rights fight…really? Wouldn’t be many Repubs left in the South.

glenn : AdLib–I just can’t understand why repubs feel this sense of entitlement. What are they doing to make this country better? Or even more united? It really pisses me off that they do everything they can to divide the country, and then complain about President Obama being divisive.

KillgoreTrout : I think it’s quite ironic for these anti-government droids to complain about not having government protection!

AdLib : I want them out of “site”.

AdLib : Muzzle them, that is.

AdLib : glenn – The real problem with Baggers shooting their mouths off is that what they use for ammunition are dum-dums. We need to put a silencer on them.

KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn and Ad. Yeah Ad, save it for another half hour or so.

AdLib : glenn – Repubs feel an entitlement to power in this country, they feel that Obama has possession of something that’s theirs and he shouldn’t be allowed to use it or anything that goes with it. The NRA’s ad attacking Melia and Sasha for having protection as kids of the President seems to show this not-so-subtle racism and feeling of entitlement.

glenn : AdLIb–the biggest problem with republicans/tpar tiers shooting off their mouths is they’re usually shooting blanks. Kinda goes with their blank minds, though. Perhaps that’s why they need all those guns and ammunition.

AdLib : Hey Killgore! When the GOP shoots off their mouths, they shoot themselves in the foot. I have another anatomically impossible quote to make about the GOP but I’ll save it for now.

glenn : Hi KT–eeew–who wants to put a bloody foot in your mouth? Only our “friends” on the right.

AdLib : Hey glenn! Yes, I saw Kalima’s post, of course the black Dem President shouldn’t be given the keys to the presidency.

KillgoreTrout : Hi folks! The NRA did indeed shoot themselves in the foot, but I guess that makes it easier to put in the mouths!

glenn : AdLib–did you see Kalima’s post about the yahoos on yahoo who are complaining about taxpayers paying for presidential perks? It seems the people on the right are really reaching nowadays for things to hammer President Obama with. Whom did they think paid for all the presidential perks for other presidents?

glenn : Hi AdLib, and yes the GOP has shot themselves in the foot. I don’t know if they shot themselves BEFORE or AFTER they kicked the can down the road.

AdLib : Poor Repubs, having to admit defeat again and again, this week, proposing to kick the deficit ceiling down the road a few months. This is what losers look like.

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “The NRA shot themselves in the foot” when you arrive!

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!