Vox Populi – 5-18-2012

choicelady : Goodnight everyone who may be reading – peaceful times for your weekend. See you all next week!

choicelady : Good night Murph – please know how valuable you are to keeping hope alive, even in this sad discussion. You bring clear insights into the world, and I for one thank you! Sleep well – you’ve earned it!

MurphTheSurf3 : Good night CL, funk, and anyone else in this corner of the blogosphere.

choicelady : Yes – that’s the protection of the FDIC – for the BANKS, not for us. But you’re right – Medicare and Social Security would be gutted to bail out the banks and bankers, and all social programs would end to ‘balance the budget’. And we’d go to war. I don’t think we will see peace again in my lifetime, and my old age is gonna suck a wad. But it might not happen – one never really knows. We shall see. But we ALSO shall work like a dog to have this NOT happen!

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…yes call it for the night. I needed to vent and this was a good place to do it. Still, I hope we can figure out how to win in a game where the dice are loaded, the cards are marked and the wheel is fixed.

choicelady : Well, Murph – this is deeply sad, and I’m sorry you had to tough it out with your group, but it is eye opening, and I hope we can salvage SOMETHING out of this. But what say you now that it’s 10 pm here and much later there (midnight?) Shall we call it an evening? I just hate closing on such a downer!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I suspect that the wall street risk takers would be happy to roll the dice again knowing that a GOP government will bail them out again….dip into the Social Security trust fund, pile up the debt even further…In 1929 lots of the big wigs took their own lives….not this time…they have figure how to Fail Big with failure for themselves…..

choicelady : Patsy – good night, dear friend. Sweet dreams!

MurphTheSurf3 : Patsy keep up the ground game and working toward change on mind at a time….you are doing your part and more.

choicelady : Murph – but if they get control, we WILL have a major depression. It’s inevitable. It will be a nightmare. We are just getting the necessary regulations in place, and if they go, the JP Morgan debacle will be routine. I predict that by the end of 2013 we will have economic meltdown. It’s all too fragile for that NOT to happen. And it will all be their fault. To quote Bette Davis – fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be a bumpy night.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…oddly I think Obama is playing his cards to win but banking them in case of a loss. I think he intends to be a force post 2012 no matter what. He might well be the voice of truth leading the popular revolution we may need. Why do I say that? He is staking out very courageous positions and holding tough ground. Like Truman…I would rather be right (correct) than be president….I think O may agree with you.

PatsyT : Thanks for the support guys… I’ll be checking in more often Love to you all I have to say goodnight. You all all the Best!

choicelady : Murph – I so hope you’re wrong! I will say that if the House and Senate are going over to GOP, I really want to lose the presidency. I do NOT want this president to be blamed for what Congress does. I know Clinton survived, and maybe it would be better for the veto on killing the things I’m looking forward to surviving on – Medicare and Social Security – but I REALLY do not want him to be blamed for their outrageous behavior. And voters did not turn them out for YEARS after that, even after Newt shut down the government. So maybe better to lose it all in 2012 and hope for better sense in 2016 – except we DO need a better SCOTUS to get rid of Citizens. It’s incredibly worrisome!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice..the Walker race costs are a drop in the billionaire and mega millionaire bucket. Remember, they know that a GOP victory will pay back their investment in spades. This is a strategy….up front investments lead to huge profits. There are billions more to spend.

PatsyT : Guys I have not been around much because of all of the ground game stuff we are doing. But I do a bit of lurking and reading here.

choicelady : Patsy – you are doing amazing things down there! Keep up the good work!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- your call to arms certainly makes sense to me. Sadly I do not think the call, whenever it is being sounded, is being heard. We are increasingly nonliterate, tied to our entertainment vessels, lured by distraction, and gulled/cullied by lies, that no matter how they are challenged, go on and on and on….Romney’s catching up to Obama is yet another sad proof of this.

PatsyT : Hey, I have a new description I am Anti Nuclear “Accident” – Choice and Funk, We are Making Great Progress! Yes It is painstakingly slow but when things start to click momentum takes over! We have so many things going on at once!

choicelady : funk – oh wow – that’s a biggie for any kid! Congratulations! Happy birthday to him, and good luck to you on surviving both the party and teen years! Sleep well- you will need the rest!

funksands : btw, Patsy, it was awesome seeing you. Hope you are well.

choicelady : Murph – you may be right about the petrie dish, but it also may be where they shoot their wad. If they win and Walker remains, they also may not have as many resources as they would have had. We beat the crap out of them before in WI and in OH, and even with Citizens money, it’s not possible for them to win everything everywhere, not EVEN in Purple states.

funksands : I gotta roll guys 13th birthday party for my son tomorrow! Have a great weekend! Murph, take a couple days off and recharge yourself. Get out into the woods for a couple days.

funksands : Patsy, he’s bought and paid for by finance, but he’s a real life candidate who isn’t an eggplant like Perry or sociopath like Romney

choicelady : Murph – some of it is just stupidity. Been there, dealt with that. But some is Fifth Columnists. We have to stop listening to them! We know it on the top – Arianna, Hamsher, etc. – but we need to understand it on our level as well. This is what happened to the Spanish Civil War people who were inflitrated by the Franco loyalists and were set against one another. Do not let them win! They are ALWAYS the naysayers. ALWAYS. In ’92 the pro choice folks were infiltrated by RW people posing as extreme radicals. We saw them for what they were and busted their game. We would NOT succumb to their push toward violence, and we took over the younger ones, made them laugh, treated them really well, and they stopped listening to the leaders. It went GREAT, and we all have to do that. There are too many people convinced of their own superiority, too, but the negativists in OWS are and were likely infiltrators – one of them I knew here in Sacto, and therefore I KNOW the RW had infiltrated here. It went nowhere so fine, but it is something to pay attention to.

PatsyT : funk, I hear ya, but from here on the west coast he seemed like a gimmick for many of us especially compared to Warren.

funksands : Murph, WI is very disturbing. Even more disturbing that the DNC isn’t throwing every spare dollar they have to win a winnable race. The RNC knows they can lose it, but the DNC don’t seem like they realize they can win it. This is, IMO, the 2nd most important race in the nation this year.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…I hear your passion and I agree with what needs to be done, but Wisconsin seems to me to be a petrie dish…and the culture growing there is telling me and many others that the formula that has won for us before is being taken apart at every level and it is money that makes this all possible.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…who do the Faux Progressives work for…are they the organizational version of the creations who prowl the big blogs claiming they were dems, or progressives, or pro obama but no longer are. Occupy has experienced the infiltration of its ranks by those who talk the progressive talk but sow the seeds of discord.

choicelady : Murph – the coup is NOT inevitable unless we all sit back as we did before. We have to keep working, talking, tweeting, doing everything we can. Walk precincts as we did before. We CAN win more than we will ever win by sitting it out. That’s what progressives do – get discouraged and sit it out. That cannot happen!

funksands : CL, I couldn’t agree more. This is a fight to the death. The sooner people see that the less “purist” they become.

funksands : Patsy, he was a very popular state senator before running for his seat. He has an incredibly compelling personal story as well.

choicelady : funk – Patsy’s situation is VERY discouraging on one level. She follows ME and my anti-nuke activism in CA in the 1970s. But it’s beginning to WIN, and Patsy is really making a difference. I can’t say the Dems will pull it out, but I do know this is NOT the time to get discouraged. That’s why I HATE the faux progressives who insist Obama is “killing civil liberties” etc. It’s a LIE, and I cannot figure out why they keep insisting on the drumbeat. Do they REALLY think the old DSoc meme of make it so bad we will finally overthrow the corporate shills and take charge? It never works. NEVER.

funksands : Murph, I can’t disagree with your statement. THAT movement also has spent years gaining steam and momentum. It has it and derailing and stopping it is going to take some time.

PatsyT : Brown rode around in a pick up truck and that won over the voters in Mass?

MurphTheSurf3 : funk….I accept that about social movements but I am more and more convinced that the GOP of the 80’s set us on a path of poorer and poorer schools, zero based real economic growth, the transfer of wealth from the middle to the upper class, the tying of the GOP to ultra-U.S. partisan positioning, and getting it all financed at the highest possible levels. Now it is financed at levels beyond any limitation. The coup is for real.

funksands : Murph, Brown was extremely popular in Mass before he won his seat. That helps. Warren may be known to everyone in the know, but is still establishing her name brand with the state.

choicelady : Patsy – I do agree, polls are not trustworthy. The problem is that it CAN discourage people from working for the candidate if it looks like a loser. So we have to be smarter than that.

funksands : Occupy used social media to quickly capture the imagination and organize, but the challenges to a movement like this are similar to every movement. Look at Patsy’s situation with the nuclear industry as an example.

choicelady : Murph – Warren needs NEEDS to emphasize her blue collar roots. That’s critical in MA. Lived there, understand that. That is authentic with her, and she needs to ground her populism in her life history. Brown can’t touch her – he’s more elite than she is IF she tells that story.

funksands : Murph, every significant social and economic movement has taken a long time to gain traction before significant change took place. The Porter’s Union threatened march on DC was in 1941, the Civil Rights act happened over 20 years later.

PatsyT : Choice, Don’t you think that like they (The Billionaire Class) can buy Ad time for their super pacs they can just as easily buy groups to do their “polling”?

choicelady : Patsy – the ricketss guy is being told to drop the Rev. Wright stuff. It’s OLD news, and it won’t work. Rev. Wright said about TWO things that were controversial – they can’t get much more than that. It plays NOT to the indies but to the converted, and I’m not concerned about that. Romney has NO record other than plant closures. WE’ve not even seen the full court Dem press yet.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…day to day they shift BUT in terms of Warren’s qualifications, positions, campaign style, gender, dem bona fides….she should be miles ahead…..nope.. ..this is Mass….How?

PatsyT : Murph, I feel like the news is only part news or almost news or faux news or FOX!

choicelady : I just looked at the Warren v Brown polls – they are unbelievable in their disparate predictions, and in the largest survey of POLLS (not the poll results themselves) they have huge disparities! The most reliable is PPP and it consistently has Warren up by 5. That’s as of 5/7. The differences are bizarre, so they are none of them reliable. Overall it’s about 50-50 as to who wins. I’d not put money on ANY of that!

PatsyT : All I know is some guy with rickets plans on attacking Pres Obama and Romney still has not apologized to all of the dogs in the country.

MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Patsy….CL and I are tussling over the meaning of the news. Scroll down if you want to catch up, or just weigh in.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL In the red states, which are predisposed to hate Obama and the Dems there is an automatic mindset that nothing good can come from either….so they accept the lies. In the Blue states the message is not coherent. We Dems…herds of cats…..so fearful of being lockstepped….

PatsyT : I am so glad you guys are following all Prez stuff … I have been out of it

choicelady : PATSY! How are you? Glad you’re here!

choicelady : Murph – that may work. Can’t say it won’t.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….a new ad blitz running in Wi…shows Walker bragging about his job performance when Wi. is hemorrhaging jobs…a few tricks with numbers, glitzy production values and huge media buys validate the lie

choicelady : But the message on jobs is NOT resonating as a GOP victory.

PatsyT : Hi Guys … I’ll read for a bit to catch up….

choicelady : Murph – you may be right, but I don’t think that’s the real story yet. Maybe so, but I don’t see it that way from what I’m reading around the country. It’s still a crap shoot. If we win the presidency but lose both houses, it will end the GOP because they will destroy us. If there are progressives who think that’s BETTER, that it will prompt revolution, well, we’ve been down this path before and it never EVER worked.

MurphTheSurf3 : The GOP govs in the red states are making it clear that it is THEY and the GOP that have wrought this miracle…and they are winning the PR game in that. Warren is tied or behind in 7 of 10 polls.

choicelady : Well if college kids think Obama is to blame for the lack of jobs, tonight’s report from Iowa, Texas, and several other Red states made a lie out of that. Rachel Maddow’s show had video of governor after governor in Red states bragging to grads about how many JOBS there were in their states! That’s undermining the “no jobs” issue. As for Warren, I see different polls that have her ahead. I’m sorry about WI – I did not realize it was so bad – but I think that’s NOT the state of the nation. I’m seeing way too many other stories about what is happening, and I think it’s a very mixed bag.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…assume OBama wins…what does he do with a GOP House and Senate? GOP governors and state assemblies….ou r overwhelming feeling tonight was that a billionaire led coup is underway. It began in 2000 with the theft of an election, got side tracked in 2008 because of a badly run war and is now being nudged back into place.

choicelady : Murph – the presidential race is far less in the GOP bag than the congressional ones. I really do NOT think that is the issue, but local and congressional races are.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL 11 states have now put laws into place that make it very hard for college students to register (college ids are not sufficient, college addresses are not permanent address so they must go home to vote, a huge upsurge in conservative feeling on campus naively focused on the graduate job market as an obama problem). Look at Warren in Mass. Despite error after error by Brown, she can do no more than tie.

choicelady : And the DNC should be horsewhipped for neglecting this!

choicelady : Murph – that lack of registration IS worrisome indeed. I wish the kids in the universities would help them GET registered. What’s the obstacle?

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…voter registrations among the Latino/a, black and college crowd is far below the target levels.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice the Wi. election is 16 days from now. I think the GOP have decided to pour everything into it to break the back of the resistance. I think the DNC believes it is lost and is not putting its reputation on the line. The left was better at social media but I think the right has bought the talent it needs to change the balance. The presentations at the meeting tonight made it clear. IF the economy does not have a significant and obvious rebound, something the GOP is successfully working to block, the short sighted, narrow minded, underinformed and easy manipulated will vote for Romney, a GOP senate and a GOP House….more state houses will fall. There were a lot of heavy hitters there. The whole night was a bath in ice cold water.

choicelady : Then,Murph, all Latino citizens need to turn out at their polls en masse and VOTE. Not one at a time – all at once. They have the right, and they need to make a huge stink. No sitting back!

choicelady : Murph – I’m hoping people get that last burst for June in WI, and in MO, the Dems DO (in both cases) need to step in with money and ads, but there is no way around it – we have to go back to basics. We have to WALK precincts, have good messaging, and take it back. WE are vastly better than the right at social media because we have the young. So the progressives have to get on the RW media tweets etc. and start undermining! Tweet the truth. Tweet the blocs of RW voters or at least indies. This is fertile territory for the young! We just cannot give up because TV is the place we cannot compete.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL Walker and the GOP Assembly passed a series of voter id laws that have created chaos….the targeting of the Hispanic Community esp. in the three big cities is clear.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…hope you are right but polling by a number of groups with very different agendas all show the momentum is Walkers. He is outspending Barrett 25 to 1 in media buys and events. He has a huge army of paid “volunteers” while the real volunteers for the Dems are worn out and beaten down. It looks like the right has learned how to use social media and is filling the net with its propaganda. Here in Missouri we are seeing the same thing with McCaskill and Nixon….take any ad washing across the tv screens all day and night and they are full of lies…the images are sticking and there is very little questioning of them. Fact checking is ignored as left wing bias.

choicelady : Murph – I don’t think WI is one of the places where there have been voter ID issues, is it? How are people being blocked?

choicelady : KT – have a great evening and weekend, and we’ll talk soon. Thanks for continuing the conversation – I totally enjoyed it!

choicelady : Murph – it’s the POLLS, not the voters, I do not trust here. Everyone working for the Dem (whose name I forget) has to unify and walk. So what if he’s not the union choice – he’s fine. I disbelieve the polls, and if people let those determine the outcome, then they’ve played into the RW hands. The polls are not accurate – and a week ago I heard Walker was DOWN by 10 points! Union people are not stupid – they may not want the Milwaukee mayor as much as their own pick, but they will figure out that he’s vastly better than Walker!

KillgoreTrout : Well Peeps, I’m calling it a night. Good job tonight CL!

choicelady : KT and Murph, the breakdown of OWS is NOT necessarily the end of the movements. I’ve read that a lot of threads – women’s issues, worker concerns, national security, etc. – are spinning off into work groups. That was inevitable and it’s good. People DO need to focus. I have a Latina friend who used to say “Unfocused women rarely make history”, and that’s quite true. Unfocused anyone rarely makes history. But the drumbeat for the 99% is still alive – ordinary folks have embraced it. We need to keep that part going, even if we change tactics and work in more discrete areas. It’s dead IF AND ONLY IF we do NOTHING.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….Walker is ahead in WI by 10 points. The folks who are the critical voters are being blocked from voting, or being fooled by media blitzes that have nothing to do with the news channels that comparatively few watch. The balloon that the informed live in, that I live, is not what turns out the vote. In Wi, 35 percent of Union households are pro Walker. How?

choicelady : funk – we’ll be here til 10. C’mon back!

KillgoreTrout : Well Murph, it was a noble effort indeed. I’m afraid that the dark side is just too experienced to let a major movement be successful. Don’t mean to be too pessimistic, but do wonder about that.

choicelady : Murph – WOW – I see JUST the opposite! The whole Rev. Wright fiasco got called out EVEN in the MSM, and the right is floundering looking for something to hit Obama with. I’m seeing tickles on CNN and other places that indicate the MSM is no longer just kowtowing to the corporate money but starting to question their tactics. I’d say now is NOT the time to give up! Look what happened in WI and OH where Koch money flowed and got defeated. In OH it was a 3:1 defeat! We can do this – the Dems put up that ONE 2-minute ad about the steel closure, it cost $83,000 – and they are getting HUGE mileage out of it via news stories! They are being VERY tactical! I also would encourage people to keep focused on Congress – the more the Baggers win, the easier it is to take back seats! Now is NOT the time to give up!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….we had people there with contacts with many Occupy groups….they are done, coast to coast….infiltr ated from the far left and right, no money, no charismatic leaders, no organizing principles….th e tea party was on hiatus, Occupy is bankrupt

funksands : Got to step away for a few. If y’all are still here I’ll see you.

KillgoreTrout : CL, well Romney will never have to worry about that.

choicelady : Ohhhh funk – why the sad face? I’m losing the thread…

MurphTheSurf3 : Folks….the underlying message is that Obama’s election crystalized resistance from the right and brought together all of the forces now fully financed. With that financing, given the nature of the average American voter, uninformed and disconnected, money walks and talks and wins. The billionaires are staging a coup made possible by a bought and paid for Supreme Court.

funksands :

choicelady : KT and Funk – I do think as long as you give money, you never leave your happy Mormon home.

KillgoreTrout : Funk I think you’re dead right on the tithing thing! God always needs money! The master of the universe, but he just can’t handle money!

choicelady : Murph – is this just your LOCAL OWS, or is it more broad based than that?

choicelady : Oh Murph – I’m so sorry! We have happy for funk and sad for you. What do you think will happen?

KillgoreTrout : Funk I think OWS being leaderless may have done them more harm than good. Who would be willing to step up to the plate.

MurphTheSurf3 : funk- general feeling is that the group has been so thoroughly compromised, it is done.

funksands : As long as he tithes, KT……

funksands : Murph, how is Occupy going to re-boot? What are some of thoughts swirling around?

KillgoreTrout : If Romney loses the election, will he still be able to go to the planet Kolub?

funksands : No doubt KT. While that’s rude, she doesn’t seem too concerned….

KillgoreTrout : Watch out, they may want to baptize her after she’s gone!

funksands : My wife is finally, officially divorced from the Mormon church.

choicelady : FUNK!!! Sister XXXX is the first person I’ve ever known to GET SET FREE byt LDS!!! Congratulations! !! Hats off, kudos, and, well what the hell, blessings on your good fortune!

MurphTheSurf3 : Went to another Friday night meeting. 4 hours. It was an all-call effort to pull every liberal/progress ive activist within 50 miles together given the events of the week- the Billionaire slime attack on Obama in the making; the Wisconsin trends; the Gun to the Head GOP announcement re. the Debt Ceiling….and now Occupy in meltdown again. It was a tough meeting. Lots of anger, worry and outright fear.

choicelady : KT – I know. WHAT wilderness? It just sounds hot and awful, and it’s a real downer, IMHO.

funksands : Dear Sister XXXX: This letter is to inform you that, in accordance with your request, your name has been removed from the membership records of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. / Should you desire to become a member of the Church in the future, the local bishop or branch president in your area will be happy to help you.”

KillgoreTrout : CL, I always wondered, “What wilderness?” In the desert?

choicelady : well, let me ask again – what happened that is big, big, big, big?

funksands : Just a moment…

funksands : I’m glad you asked!

choicelady : funk – what’s up today?

choicelady : FUNK! MURPH! Lovely to see you! AB and Bourne were here earlier but had to leave. Great to have you stop by! AdLib is off for the evening. I think it’s in his contract…so I’m filling in.

funksands : Speaking of religion, big big big big day at our house today.

KillgoreTrout : Hey funkman!

KillgoreTrout : What’s up Murph? Cl and I are holding down the forest!

choicelady : My problems with Christianity as a kid had to do with being raised in a very NON religious household, first, but being VERY put off by stories of people wandering around hot, dusty deserts in robes and sandals. I hate hot weather, and you’d have stones in your shoes all the time. It just never appealed to me at ALL. It took me ages to READ what Jesus taught and get past the environment. But I still have a kind of flinch when I think about 40 years in the wilderness – ugh.

funksands : H-h-hellooo?

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello…whoever is here.

KillgoreTrout : The religious nuts! I’m surprised that they don’t whip themselves any longer.

choicelady : Well – who wouldn’t?

KillgoreTrout : LOL! Perfect answer. Woody Allen once said, when asked about his thoughts on god, “If it’s between god and air conditioning, I’ll take air conditioning!”

choicelady : KT – Twain was right! Anyway, for us being WITH them would be hell. One biddy said to me on a very hot, muggy day, “It’s going to be a lot hotter than this where YOU are going!” I said, “Maybe, but I hear it’s a DRY heat.” She was NOT amused.

KillgoreTrout : Didn’t Mark Twain quip once about preferring hell to heaven, because “the company is better!”

choicelady : KT – I think this is the conundrum of the day, and it may also be an explanation for the lack of vim and vigor in the Veep candidates. To these extremists who SO dominate the party, Mormonism is a cult, is NOT Christian, and I am very interested in how they would do the double half gainer to vote for such a man. They hate Mormons more than they hate even mainline Protestants and thoughtful Catholics! It is going to be very interesting indeed!

KillgoreTrout : CL, I am really interested to know just how the fanatic Christians will support Romney. They consider Mormonism to not be a valid form of Christianity. Will they put party before their religious convictions? Give up their god in favor of the a GOP win?

choicelady : OK – “You’re our kinda guy”. Dyslexia of the fingers tonight. Not QUITE as bad as when Cher started typing in runes but close!

choicelady : KT – Sue and I have great background info. She’s really taking the lead these days since I don’t have time right now. She’s doing GREAT investigative work! Never fear – we none of us ever worried you’d pay the RR any mind other than to oppose their extremism! They would be sure, lover of Tao that you are, you are doomed to perdition. Your our kinda guy, KT!

KillgoreTrout : CL, you and Sue know a lot more about the RR than I do. I do know they will never get my support. I consider them a bunch unprincipled lunatics.

choicelady : Reagan got hooked, I hear. He was Presbyterian and got thick with Rushdoony the REAL extremist. Read that even Reagan’s own minister was afraid of Reagan after that. No talking to him. Of course Rushdoony’s extremist views were for OTHER people, not Reagan – he loved the dis against poor people and all that! The very religious right WERE behind Clinton’s two scandals – Paul Jones made her charges against Clinton with Randall Terry standing with her on the stage. He introduced her! It was HIS revenge against Clinton for the ‘fetus flashing’ incident during the ’92 campaign that landed Terry in federal prison for several months. He used Jones to get even. And the Monica scandal was financed by several religious corporate moguls including the Scaife family. It all ties up. That’s why I loved the “outing” of the sniffy RW pols – Henry Hyde, Helen Chenoweth, etc. They REALLY got embarrassed by that! Proved they were a bunch of lying hypocrites since they all had committed adultery!

KillgoreTrout : Good questions, but I really couldn’t say. Reagan never struck me as a very religious person. He did talk the talk though, on occasion. I wonder how much of an effect Clinton’s Lewinsky scandal had on the RR. maybe they they thought the lack of morals on Clinton’s part was just the tip of the iceberg of the rest of the democratic party. The RR does refer to libs as degenerates who are absolutely devoid of any moral compass.

choicelady : KT – correction: ‘exercised ITS power’. Typing too fast…

choicelady : KT – Yup. I hear all the time from the GOP that Newt is the Most Intellectual of all the Reeps. That’s pitiful if it’s true.

choicelady : KT – I know what happened in 1980. What I do NOT know is how the religious right got that much power between 1976 and 1980 – that’s when the movement grew. But it wasn’t political really – and that’s where I think “The Family” exercised it’s power bringing corporate money into religious camps and vice versa. Even by the 1990s the Christian Coalition was quite weak, so we need to remember who the money bags were at Reagan’s anointing – and how the fusion of corporations and religious extremists brought him to the fore. AND to the fold!

KillgoreTrout : Newt an intellectual? HAHAHA! He is devious, but I wouldn’t say intellectual. He’s too full of himself.

KillgoreTrout : CL. Barry Goldwater warned the GOP to not let Falwell and his minions get any real power in the party. I guess the GOP just dissmissed Goldwater, outright.

choicelady : That’s Newt – a little is never enough. Over the top is where he lives. When people call him an intellectual I really do want to barf.

KillgoreTrout : LOL, I think Newt got a little ahead of himself with the moon base thing. I think he was trying to imitate JFK when he challenged the nation to put a man on the moon and bring him back safely. But, as usual, Newt took it way too far.

choicelady : Honest to pete, I do NOT know how the GOP let itself get hijacked by the Dominionists AND the Baggers. Oh, I know the history – but where was the pushback? It’s pitiful watching these folks pretend they know anything at all, and they are convinced, like Newt, they are geniuses. How the HELL did that happen?

KillgoreTrout : CL, it would be absolutely wonderful to break the obstructionism in congress. Enough is enough.

choicelady : You mean just because his top priority is NOT this nation but colonizing the moon? Now how could anyone not love that?

KillgoreTrout : I just think that Romney knows deep down that most people consider Newt to be aa little too far out on the edge of reality.

choicelady : KT – I REALLY want the Dems to have both houses. I think the 50-state strategy is essential. THEN we could see stuff happen!

KillgoreTrout : Good question CL. I think they will. As should the dems. Sometimes I think congress has more power that the POTUS, in some areas. Congress and the Supreme Court.

choicelady : KT – what would be the down side for Mitt outside of always having to have his back against the wall when Newt was around…

KillgoreTrout : CL, I think Gingrich woul love to take a hit for their team, But I don’t think Romney is dumb enough to pick Newt for VP.

choicelady : KT – well, it’s down to the two of us. I do agree with you – by having Rmoney as the pick, the rest of the field has pretty much scattered. If the GOP has conceded the presidential election to Obama, does that mean they will focus on congressional and senate races more?

choicelady : Bourne – LOL! You sound like Mitt! Good luck with the suit, and yes, we will “do lunch”!

KillgoreTrout : Bourne, I think you hit the nail on the head. Those GOPers in the primaries were so ridiculous and fanatical, that Romney is their only hope, and I think somewhere in the quiet nights, many GOPers don’t really have much faith in Romney as the winner.

BourneID : Well CL and KT, time for me to hang it up. It’s been fun. CL, we will do that lunch. okay? look forward to meeting you, not for a couple of months because I’m suing someone and I’m busy on my legal stuff. I love suing people…So goodnight KT and CL.

choicelady : KT – there is a lot to be said for machine politics and even, God forbid, the mob in terms of providing help to families the dominant culture has ignored or shoved aside. It’s all about survival, even today.

KillgoreTrout : CL, I’ve actually known some fellows in the Irish mob in Boston.

choicelady : KT – I think you’re right, but is this not unpredecented? Does no one “take it for the team” anymore?

choicelady : You do all realize that if no one wants to stand with Romney, this could get very weird. Is Sarah available and would she do it?

KillgoreTrout : CL, I think the reluctance comes from these people’s thoughts about their political futures. They just don’t want their names on the losing ticket. I think they have Palin in the back of their minds.

choicelady : KT – correction, my friend is RELATED to people in one of the families, he’s not IN the family. Never was.

BourneID : KT since the stories continue that the party really doesn’t want Romney as its candidate, who with any kind of ambition for the WH in teh future, would want to rish that because the odds are more against his winning…not a good place to be.

choicelady : KT – truth time. I have ONE friend in one of the families. He’s not there anymore, and I love him dearly. He does tell some pretty funny stories, gotta say.

choicelady : KT – WHY are so many so reluctant? Rubio I think has been quietly advised to shut UP due to his lies and lack of ties to the critical Latino vote. But what about the rest? Why the reluctance? Is it Romney’s Mormon baggage or his overall blah?

KillgoreTrout : CL, I have no doubt that Chistie has a few friends in the 5 “families.”

BourneID : CL Do you think Christie has the personality to tolerate Romney? I can’t imagine he can control the temper, rudeness, or whatever enough to have the patience it takes. There is something really, really missing in Romney and the two are polar opposites, not a good mix.

KillgoreTrout : Well Chris Christy for one, Pawlenty and 2 others I think. I can’t recall their names at the moment, but Jon Steward did a bit about the reluctance of possible VP picks for Romney.

choicelady : KT – I believe deep in my heart that Christie is mobbed up. He has the chootz-pah to run though – he appears to think he can put his failings behind him. I think we discussed a major legal problem he’s facing. These guys are SO arrogant they think being arrested or indicted is not a problem!

BourneID : Kt, who are the potentials who are avoiding him?

choicelady : And Harry makes Mr. Rogers look peppy!

KillgoreTrout : CL, not as long as they keep flapping their gums. I too am very curious who Romney will pick as VP. I know several possible candidates are really steering clear of Romney. I find that encouraging.

choicelady : Bourne – LOL!!! That’s Harry Reid, OK!

BourneID : OMG CL, Harry Reid. On or side, but I want to stand in back of him when he talks and ecourage him to keep going – you can do it Harry. He neds a voice, a real voice. He sounds like a Sunday School Teacher

choicelady : BTW – I suspect Pawlenty of Anglicizing his name. I know the Italian version Palente. Hmmm. What’s he worried about?

choicelady : Bourne – the operative word is BOZO! The only one not in the mix was Pawlenty who is certifiably the MOST boring man in America. Makes Harry Reid look peppy!

BourneID : KT, I think not only the ads but Romney himself will bring his demise. McCain did it with Sarah; interesting to see who he chooses; hopefulyy not one of the bozos who were on stage with him. God, I hope he hasn’t promised any of them a job!

choicelady : KT – but isn’t it all OLD news?

KillgoreTrout : CL, I think the Romney ads bashing Obama will have some effect on indies, but I think there is so much material that Obama can against Romney and the GOP in general, to make up for it. The GOP are their own worst enemy. They have knack for forgetting that their statements are always being recorded, in audio and video.

BourneID : C:. the message might get through but not to the Fox listeners; they’re too far gone and they’re the people who need to udnerstand this. With Hannity never shutting up and his listeners listening to every word, I don’t think frankly they understand the job loss. Romney speaks only about his CEO experience, never as governor, notice that?

choicelady : Bourne – I totally agree. His first cool move was NOT to rush in and support the coup in Honduras. We still have not, yet Honduras is now in the Latin American network of nations – and THEY are riding herd on Honduras. Obama is the first NOT to respond in a knee jerk way to those kinds of RW moves. Part of why the RW hates him.

KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams AB.

BourneID : I think the greatest thing this president did almost immediately was to develop a strong foreign policy; talk instead of shoot. He went to countries we’ve ignored for years; he validated their leaders by going to them; he was criticized for efforts to speak to the Iranians but the Ihis is exactly what is needed. No matter what we think of our president, to be recognized by the President of the United States is a major things. Look at how the North Korean leader stood next to Bill Clinton = he almost exploded with self importance.

AlphaBitch : Nite nite. Fight the good fight. I’ll hold down the fort.

choicelady : AB – you’re two hours ahead, you deserve rest! Good night, thanks for being here! Stay alert for tornadoes!

KillgoreTrout : CL, i agree. People who don’t follow Obama in the news, just usually fall for the headlines without reading the articles about him. They see one thing that dissappoints them, and they’re off to blame Obama. Usually single issue voters. Too bad.

AlphaBitch : Okey dokey. I’m officially tuckered out. See you guys down the line. Right as the topic appears…..

choicelady : TOPIC – CAN THE CORPORATE MONEY AND ‘SWIFTBOAT’ ADS FROM ROMNEY’S BUSINESS FRIENDS DO ANY DAMAGE TO OBAMA? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE ONE-TIME PLAY BY THE DEMS OF THE 2-MINUTE AD ON ROMNEY’S SHUTDOWN OF THE STEEL MILL? WILL THAT HELP PEOPLE FOCUS ON ROMNEY’S ‘LEGACY’ OF JOB LOSSES?

AlphaBitch : I had a little action figure with a balloon that you could clip on various Bushisms. I lost it in the move…

AlphaBitch : Not me, KT. King of Fools.

KillgoreTrout : AB Ha! I almost forgot my Bushspeak!

AlphaBitch : OK by me.

choicelady : AB – Jimmy Carter and the UN!

choicelady : KT – that is also why the LEFT underestimates Obama. I have been amazed at the well-informed knowledgable people who get him and validate how superb his policies are and yet how fast he’s repudiated by the hair on fire types who want table pounding and nothing else.

AlphaBitch : CL: Can we have Jimmy Carter monitor the election?

KillgoreTrout : CL. that is good news and bad news. I do think there will be plenty of eyes on the voting process this election, at I hope so.

BourneID : Also, all..did you read Sue’s piece on religious right? She did a great job and lots of research. There’s so much going on that it’s impossible to process all of it.

AlphaBitch : That’s “misunderestima ting”

KillgoreTrout : Bourne you have to advance without appearing to move. I think that’s what Obama does. The GOP are always underestimating him.

choicelady : KT – the problem with registratin fraud is that the county boards of elections toss the frauds before they get on the rolls. So very few make it. The real problem remains – too few polling sites in Dem areas, electronic tampering, etc. The ID issue MUST be addressed with help to those who cannot get their ID – we need to help that wherever those laws have been put in place.

AlphaBitch : “I have met the enemy and he is us?” Pogo.

BourneID : I still get Christmas cards from res Bush

choicelady : Uh- that’s Bourne. Sorry….

choicelady : Bounre – I think you told us you were GOP registered, and that is a wise tactic. One of the heads of Planned Parenthood is, too. She gets her licks in!

KillgoreTrout : I sometimes believe that GOP knows that voter fraud will be their only chance at winning. It wouldn’t be the first time.

choicelady : KT – in various states I’m hearing my call to arms – pick people up, drive them to get ID and pay for it if you must – is actually working. Particularly in the Black community, people are making sure everyone has the ID they need and will make sure they vote. The latest scandal in “voter fraud” here is ALL FROM THE GOP!!!! I know whoever registers has to be turned in, but they have scads of bad registrations because a rich firm is paying $5 per card, and it’s making the recruiters sign up false names. This is what happened to ACORN, but are you hearing the same howls? NO!

AlphaBitch : KT: It can beat the brains out of you if you’re not smart though. You have to beat them at their own game. The Zen of Life.

BourneID : CL, I will use my right wing Gateway to promote the reelection of the Prez, believe. Incidentally, I’m a registered Repub and I am ashamed of the party but I haven’t changed formally because I find it’s more effective to use that when I argue with people – they don’t completely turn off their hearing aids.

KillgoreTrout : AB, brawn will never top brains.

AlphaBitch : Me too, KT. That’s what worries me.

AlphaBitch : Nope, CL. The Blov sends me into big box stores to find out which size screw to use on certain projects. I’m excellent at helpless eejit.

choicelady : AB – that is just GREAT advice to your students!

KillgoreTrout : Voter suppression is my biggest worry. I know that Obama will get the youth vote, the LGBT vote, women’s votes and minorities votes.

choicelady : AB – I think for you it’s the other way ’round – being smart is easy, stupid is hard.

AlphaBitch : I used to tell my Afghan students: “You don’t have to be stronger, richer or more powerful than the bad guys. YOU just need to be smarter.” I meant it.

choicelady : Bourne darlin’ – hate to tell you that apparently the owner of Gateway is to the Right of Attila the Hun, sad to say. So you use your power for GOOD with that thing and stuff it up his nose!

AlphaBitch : Ah, but CL – I can do it for half the price and still have plenty of time to do other things. Sounding stupid is easy. Being smart is hard.

BourneID : I bought a new laptop – a Gateway – and i can dictate what I want writen; I’m going to spend the next week learning how to do that becuase I am so far behind all of you and I hate scrolling up and down – I get confused.

choicelady : AB – you sell out cheap, girlfriend. Hold out for $1 million before you sound stupid!

AlphaBitch : Voter registration.

choicelady : Bourne – if it’s because Obama is a White Sox fan, that’s idiotic beyond description. Fans are actually regional – WS on the South Side, Cubs on the North. Suburbanites go wherever. If that IS the reason – that is beyond stupid.

AlphaBitch : I want to talk about electronic voting machines and Rovian tactics.

KillgoreTrout : !

AlphaBitch : CL: I’ll introduce you to Robin Schneider, who is ED of the Texas Campaign for the Environment.

choicelady : KT and all- I just don’t think there’s any juice in Wright, birth, even Solyndra. It’s all out there, nothing to see. Those who want to believe Obama is horrid will do so. The rest of us want to talk about other things.

KillgoreTrout : Well AB, feet would be in the vicinity!

choicelady : KT – wise man. Very wise.

choicelady : Bourne – I have not read AdLib’s piece on that yet. Look forward to it. I have GREAT distrust of the polls save for one CA polling firm that explains exactly how they sampled, and they are always correct. People ignore them at their peril on state issues. Nationally? Anyone seen anything from Nate Silver? And if not why not?

AlphaBitch : I’ll sound stupid for $500,000/year

AlphaBitch : KT: “She felt the earth move, under her feet”

BourneID : CL One of the genises who was trying to explain the Chicago guy’s reason for this (by the way his name is Ricketss) is because Obama is a dedicated White Sox fans so the Cubs ownere wants to get even. I can’t believe it; my logic is better than that and I don’t paid a million a year to sound stupid.

KillgoreTrout : CL, she said yes, and I shamefully took the credit!

KillgoreTrout : Yeah Bourne, I saw a little bit about that creep. I don’t think he’ll make much of a difference in the race. That Rev. Wright thing has been pretty much beaten to death by now.

AlphaBitch : Bourne – what I liked is the blatant hypocrisy of the ExxonMobile ads where they praise teachers and education. Yet they give $$$ to the Repubs? For Jesus H.’s sake!

choicelady : AB – I KNOW good TX women! They are the BEST. We need you as part of the generation to follow Ann, Molly, et al. Funny, hard drinkin’, smart as a whip, and progressive. So I’d love to come there and meet who you know!

AlphaBitch : “Smart” is not a description of too many RWers.

choicelady : KT – Hah! What did SHE say?

BourneID : Did any of you read AdLibs piece on how news is delivered these days? He had 10 points about what they won’t tell us. I liked them but my favorite was about polls. I do not like the poll system because they don’t include the demographic group, location, part affiliation, etc. It was good

choicelady : Bourne – the thing that makes me furious is that the Chicago guy owns the CUBS. I’m a Cubs fan (teaches hope, patience, lunacy) and resent that like hell. And the idiot wants Chicago to give him $$ to rebuild Wrigley Field – and who’s the mayor of Chicago? NOT smart, any way you look at it.

AlphaBitch : CL: C’mon down. Both Kalima and Dear Leader have my permission to give you my email. I show you good time…and it would be fun….You’ve got to meet some strong bright TX women. Or you’ll think we are all Anita Perry or Mrs. Louis Gohmert.

KillgoreTrout : CL I was making love to my girlfried when we a quake, And I asked, “Did the earth move for you too?

choicelady : AB – I get the tequila thing…

choicelady : Bourne – I heard tonight that he’s being told to back off by Romney. Everyone KNOWS the Wright story – it all makes Romney’s guy look really awful, NOT Obama.

AlphaBitch : CL: Unless there is tequila involved, I usually do remember wehre I am.

BourneID : KT – have you read anything about the Chicago bilionaie who’s planning the big take-down of the prez? He wants to bring up the Rev Wright thng and there were some pretty disgusting thing they called President Obama…

choicelady : KT – I’ve done a 7.0. Also had many 5/8 or 9 – HUGE difference!

KillgoreTrout : hey Bourne, good to see you too.

choicelady : AB – out here low lying areas are tsunami problems. In TX and tornado alley, they are life savers. You have to remember where you are!

AlphaBitch : KT: I’d have needed the brown pants, that’s for sure.

BourneID : Hi KT you weren’t here last week. nice to see you.

KillgoreTrout : While living in SoCal, I experienced several quakes, but none of them were strong 5.8 or 5.9.

choicelady : Yeah – warnings are worth, what? Sometimes OK. The low lying areas are, well, the coast. Or here where the Bay begins as the river. We’re all pretty much screwed.

AlphaBitch : Bourne: The low lying areas are the ditches you crawl in (along with the snakes) when you see a tornado……

AlphaBitch : Hi KT – we’re talking natural disasters, as opposed to political ones. At least for now.

BourneID : I know they have great warning systems, but I was worried about the signs on the freeways that say “be careful of low lying areas” 9 I nver knew where they were.

choicelady : KT – GREAT to see you! We’re discussing earthquakes and other dangerous phenomena.

AlphaBitch : I grew up in hurricanes. You got days warnings, and Daddy bought new batteries for flashlights and radios; Momma filled the bathtub w/ water to use for toilet and hygiene and every conceivable container for drinking water. We bought canned hams and beans. It was an adventure. Been through some bad ones (Celia in 1970) but prefer them to tornadoes.

choicelady : AB – I will if I can. Who’d pass up a chance to meet Biff?

KillgoreTrout : What’s up Peeps?

choicelady : Bourne – I did grad work in Santa Cruz, and watching the TV after the Loma Prieta (world series quake) from back east made me nuts. I no longer recognize the SC mall – it’s so different. Very sad, very scary.

choicelady : AB – Kalima has taken the absolute worst, indeed. Seattle has fewer, but like Alaska, they can be meaner. Not fun.

AlphaBitch : CL: I invite you – very sincerely and cordially – to come visit. I’m the Biff to you, remember?

BourneID : CL, yea – agree. SF is a little iffy. A few years ago in the big eartquake (opening day of the world series), part o fthe Bay Bridge collapsed. That was bad.

choicelady : AB – ohhhh HAIL. That’s a whole nuther issue. My folks lived in Omaha (I did not) where they got pounded. They got a mini van cheap because it had dents the size of golf balls. All across the Midwest you see signs – HAIL DAMAGE REPAIRED – NO BONDO! It’s an honorable standard.

AlphaBitch : CL: Agree with you, too (equal opportunity pandering a la Romney). I freaked over earthquakes when in Seattle – esp. when crossing the bridges from the ‘burbs. I am always worried when Kalima gets shaken….

AlphaBitch : Bourne: Agree. I was once in panhandle Texas and their HS football team was “the tornadoes”. We were under a warning, and I ran out to my truck to get a flashlight, thinking I could at least flash signal if the hotel (a Western Skies type of Route 66 hotel) collapsed on me. It was hailing golf balls and I more likely would have died of a head injury. Lucky for me I have a thick skull….

BourneID : Where exactly is JS Estates? By the way, I love Texans – really. I had a good time there, when I wasn’t afraid.

choicelady : AB – never heard a more apt description of “planned development”. Lollygag Mansions – perfect!

choicelady : Bourne – I’m a midwesterner, so I don’t fear tornadoes – you get warnings. I really do NOT want to die as you’ve described. More to the point, I don’t want to be stranded in SF when my car is across the Bay in Oakland. They scare the bejeezus out of me. Was in the Big One of 1971. That’s enough.

AlphaBitch : Sometimes I just need a breather. I go for a nature walk in my new Lollygag Mansion/ Jackshit Estates and see wrens and cardinals and the omnipresent mockingbirds.

BourneID : EXACTLY! There were 19 in the surrounding areas the first weekend there. I’m used to earthquates – a kinder way to die; the earth opens, you fall in, it’s over. Tornadoes really frighten me.

choicelady : I have to tell both of you that my entire experience of Texas, outside of landing in Dallas to change planes, is Amarillo. That’s it. Of Texas I know very little.

choicelady : AB – we CAN talk about other things! I have a nationwide drumbeat going on how the Defense Authorization Act is NOT a fast track to citizen roundups, and I now stand with you – ROSES, waterfalls, birds – anything but THAT conversation AGAIN. You are a wise woman.

AlphaBitch : YIKES Bourne – that’s Tornado country. I’m in the hill country/south Texas region.

BourneID : Hi AB. what part of Texas? I spent 3 months there when I worked for the fed govt – Wichita Falls…April through July; 3 mnths of terror.

AlphaBitch : No, but Faith Hill (Tim McGraw’s wife) is a friend of my friend. does that count?

AlphaBitch : I for one am pretty politicked out at present. I’ve shut out all news for a while and am finding peace and comfort in nature, friends, family. Healing.

choicelady : AB – any relation to Tim McGraw? That IS funny – whoda thunk Texans could be that subtle?

AlphaBitch : Coup d’etat – so French of you, CL! That will never fly in Romney’s America. BTW: There is a Texas (of course) band named Cooter Graw.

BourneID : BRW, I’m playing mahjong on my yahoo game – love it; forces me to think. So there will be some time delays here.

choicelady : Bourne – go for it. I’m unfamiliar with the investment story, at least under THAT name. It’s all of a piece, though. Obama is a BAD MAN. As if we had not heard it all over the past 4 years…

BourneID : I like the Jeremiah Wright topic and the billionaire Ricketss investment of $10M?

choicelady : Hi AB – no, no coup d’etat or anything of that ilk. AdLib just needed the night off, and we, being progressives and all, gave it to him. Seemed the thing to do, doncha think? Glad you’re here, however long you last!

AlphaBitch : Hello CL and Bourne! Just popping in briefly – long day, early bedtime tonight. Did you overthrow Dear Leader, or did he abdicate? The King is dead; long live the Queen??????

choicelady : Does anyone else get itchy when Bing and Google are crawling? Eeeuuuw.

choicelady : WE have no immediate topic, so feel free to weigh in on – CA budget, layoffs and the economy, Mitt discovering his friends are doing him in with the Jeremiah Wright stuff – whatever comes to mind.

BourneID : Thanks. I’m enjoying it…

choicelady : Evening Bourne – lovely to have you here!

BourneID : Hi CL, so you’re leading us tonight…excell ent.

choicelady : AdLib – “brilliant and charming’? Wow. I’ll do this every week for that kind of compliment! Sorry you won’t be here, but even AdLib deserves a day off. Happy to fill in. Hi to all – see you at 7:00, PDT and whatever it is in YOUR neck of the woods.

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Guest hosting tonight will be the brilliant and charming Choicelady! Please show her all the courtesy you’ve been saving up when I’ve been hosting. Have fun!