PatsyT : Washington opps it is late
PatsyT : Khirad I am still looking forward to you washing pics
PatsyT : Hey till next time Have a wonderful evening
PatsyT : Thanks You guys are just super peachey !
Khirad : Yup, party’s over.
PatsyT : Yes bito I want a pink pony this time! and an uompa loompa ……………. ….Well folks shall we call it a day?
Khirad : I guess it’s time to mosey on to the car, if I can get out of the driveway.
bitohistory : Good night all. Patsy, maybe AdLib will give you another pony for doing such a good job. (I would hold out for a matched pair and surrey!)
PatsyT : Khirad I will look forward to that link McCain could have a new career as an actor in a sitcom
PatsyT : I wonder who all the guests are I hope they can move their cars when we need to leave
PatsyT : Nighty night Blues Tiger, You have given me much to think about – Thank You
Khirad : Night, BT
bitohistory : Night k’es, you have mail
Blues Tiger : Good night everyone…
Khirad : Night, Sue.
PatsyT : Sue, Thank You! All the best to you, have a wonderful evening
bitohistory : Wold you give me a point of reference when or where anything like this has ever happened. Of course things had to be engineered/ invented to use this situation. They did not just go and get something off the shelf.. My lord every thing was being done remotely.
SueInCa : Well I am going to sign off now. You all have agood night. Patsy, great job at hosting.
SueInCa : But I will be laughing….
SueInCa : Thanks Khirad and Bito, I have alot to look at tomorrow.
PatsyT : Khirad Thats fantastic
Khirad : OT, I found that Stewart piece on McCain wandering during the debate. “Mr Puddles, I have snausages” @ 7:30-8:20 «link»
SueInCa : Bito you are right, but I am against oil rigs in any ocean or sea. The petro companies on land are filthy enough for me. My motherinlaw and her whole family died of some form of cancer. They ate their food from a garden right backing up to Chevron in Richmond…….. …..
SueInCa : Night Kes
Blues Tiger : Bito are you under the impression that the capping they did was something they just invented?
bitohistory : Sue, is it not like not flying the plane if you don’t know how to land? If we have no idea of how to stop this at a mile deep, perhaps we should not do it.
PatsyT : Nighty night kes Hope it has cooled off
PatsyT : It is a tragedy the Gulf of Mexico had to be the classroom
Khirad : Night kes.
Blues Tiger : nite kes, sweet dreams
kesmarn : Well, dear friends, it’s nearly 12:30 a.m. here. I’d love to get this all sorted out, but I must get a bit of sleep before I go back to work tomorrow. And I’m not leaving just because the beer ran out….honest… Good night, all!
Khirad : (oops – no sarcasm intended)
bitohistory : Sorry I don’t have the scientific knowledge of such a large experiment. i don’t know if anyone did. The very equipment to cap or capture ha dnot even been thought about or let alone invented
PatsyT : Sue & BT They ALL (gov and BP) have had to learn as they go
Blues Tiger : nothing new occurred, no new equipment devoloped, no new fantastic technology developed
Khirad : Well, okay, yeah BT, that’s fair.
SueInCa : I am sorry but when I hear all the horror stories to humans and wildlife, I just get angry
Blues Tiger : they didn’t
Blues Tiger : What they did, they could have done early on is what I am saying
SueInCa : So…. isnt that all a part of never doing this before? Those are the hazards and no one had any foresight or acted proactively.
Blues Tiger : I agree PT
PatsyT : BT I think we will be learning many things about this whole disaster for years to come
Blues Tiger : This well was capped now because studies were showing the relief wells may not have killed the leak like they thought itwould
SueInCa : What do you mean, in the same sense?
kesmarn : It seems Halliburton produced some pretty shoddy equipment as well. And Transocean spent more time moving its headquarters around trying to avoid paying taxes than thinking about safety. So many corporate liars!
Blues Tiger : It wasn’t capping in the same sense
Khirad : It’s another government job, with far too much cozyness with oil companies, and over a hundred new democratic and moderate appointees blocked since inauguration. In other words, this would take some time to clean up itself, anyway.
SueInCa : So who are you saying are the liars in this game? BP or the Gov or both? I seem to remember they tried a capping expedition early on and it did not work. Do you think they made it not work?
PatsyT : Kes Thanks We can learn a few things from each other that way
Blues Tiger : Bito all the efforts in when this first started were to recapture the Oil not cap it and kill it
SueInCa : I really don’t care about Bush. Like you said deregulation was under his watch with Wendy Gramm sitting on the Board of Enron……….. ..
kesmarn : BT, you’re totally free to hold and express your opinions, to challenge others’ and vice versa. I think this conversation is very worthwhile. I hope you do, too.
PatsyT : MMS was a mess too bad we had to find out this way
Blues Tiger : The question was would Red Staes start leaning Blue
SueInCa : You are the only one who brought up Bush………… BT
Blues Tiger : the deregulation occurred under Bush, but the MMS is just another Goverbnment Job
Blues Tiger : they weren’t Bush appointees
Blues Tiger : The MMS employees involved had been there for like 25 years
SueInCa : All of the staff. The staff does not change when a new administration comes in unless Salazar makes changes. You know how hard it is to fire a civil servant employee?
Blues Tiger : Like I said why bother?
Khirad : MMS
PatsyT : BT with a culture of free reign for oil corps We have to look at the sources of how this happened. Obama is the one that is saying the buck stops with me – But we have to look at where it started
Khirad : And at least this time BP is leveling with us to some extent.
Blues Tiger : what Staff were Bush carryovers?
bitohistory : BT. Have not heard that from any one with first hand knowledge.
SueInCa : They still don’t know if that cap will hold…………
Khirad : I was about to bring that up Sue, and that the GOP was blocking replacements to these Rove purity tested appointees.
kesmarn : BT, on the media blackout: this may sound like I’m being sarcastic, but I’m honestly ignorant. Is it the government or BP that’s keeping the media away? If it is the government, then I would say, yes, that’s a problem.
Blues Tiger : They were trying to save the well Bito not cap it
SueInCa : Oh come on, he puts his pants on one leg at a time like everyone else. Everyone makes mistakes, but you fail to acknowledge that most of the staff were bush carryovers and the Senate held up Salazar until July 2009. They were a mess way before Salazar took over.
bitohistory : BT, Where do you get that they could have capped it right away. This has never happened before this deep
Khirad : BT, I heard it described as putting your thumb on a hose, only with a cap where the hose itself could fray and pop. When I said slow learners, I was referring to their messaging though. Only now they seem to realize the nation’s cynicism, and to guard against it.
Blues Tiger : Nothing is ever “Obama’s Fault” on this site so why bother with continuing the conversation?
SueInCa : Sorry Khirad. You are right. I was being kind to BP
SueInCa : TB I am not complacent about all this. I recognize where MMS and the Coast Guard came up short but how is this all Obama’s fault?
bitohistory : I agree Bt mistakes were and are being made. Where has there been a situation to pattern a response after?
Blues Tiger : Khirad, the capping is something they could have done from the beginning… No new technology was developed nor even new BOP’s build… They are using BOP that wasn’t built to withstand the pressures…
Khirad : No, Sue, “750 willfully egregious” violations!
kesmarn : Now it’s developing that BPis using delaying and denying techniques to avoid paying claims, too. This is a lousy company.
SueInCa : BP had over 750 safety violations to any other who had tops, 10. They are careless everyday.
SueInCa : BT Tell me how you clean up a gusher that continues to spill? No one is saying they did a bng up job but how do you clean up something that continues to gush? That seems futile to me
PatsyT : BluesTiger, Obama is taking responsibility for this- he is a stand up guy in that respect – It’s not helping his polls He is taking a big hit
kesmarn : BP has a bad safety record in general. In this area, there’s a Sunoco refinery and a BP one. Many more safety violations at the BP. They don’t care about their workers’ safety. Or the public’s.
Blues Tiger : I wonder how many of you would be so complacent with the type of media blackout we experienced from the Gulf disaster if it occurred during Bush/Cheney… If the massive amounts of dispersant occurred under Bush/Cheney… If the surrendering of private and public lands to BP control occurred under Bush/Cheney… Or the poor clean up efforts and the large numbers of sick workers occurred under Bush/Cheney…
Khirad : Anyone notice that only now, after they’ve got it capped – for now – that they’re tamping down expectations? I swear, some of the slowest learners ever.
SueInCa : I know Bito, there was outrage and it was enough for us. But Long Beach, San Pedro, The east bay are all loaded with refineries. If one were to blow, I bet a chain reaction would follow that is how close they are.
PatsyT : They have had to figure this out as it has enfolded – BP had no plan for this – How would our government be able to supersede the Walrus Plan they had in place?
kesmarn : For days BP lied about the amount of oil leaking out at the the beginning. It took some time, I think to get a grasp of how enormous this was. And all the RW stuff about Obama refusing offers of foreign aid proved untrue according to FactCheck.
SueInCa : There has never been a gusher from the floor of the ocean either………. …..contingency plans. MMS needs to be completely revamped
SueInCa : TB it is always the government’s issue for clean up, but it is no one but BP’s fault for their carelessness
SueInCa : Exactly Khirad. I am just very anti oil drilling. I drive a honda hybrid and do my part to cut down. And your idea of a lumberjack mafiosa sounds like a good Knocked Up type movie LOL
kesmarn : Hadn’t heard that one, Khirad, but I did have to wonder why there was no thought given to anything like a contingency plan.
bitohistory : Sue I went by Santa Barbraba when they had their spill. Proved to be enough for CA
PatsyT : Link to the methane story «link»
Blues Tiger : So BP’s Rig Disaster is directly conneted to Bush, but BP’s clean up disaster is not connected to the current Administartion.. .
Khirad : My favorite analogy throughout this whole mess was: “BP had figured out how to get to the moon, but not how to get back.” Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
SueInCa : This also was not an oil spill it was a hole in the ocean floor and no matter how quickly they tried to clean it up, it was going to continue to gush.
kesmarn : When those pristine beaches are gone, they’re gone. Wish BP had figured that out.
bitohistory : k’es FL does have some nice beaches. And lots of condos now on the shore. Large money
SueInCa : I don’t like to be a pest but if you don’t want oil spilled in your backyard, don’t have oil rigs in the ocean. I am glad we have a moratorium here. There were some errors by the administration, not speaking to the nation for one, but all of the responsibility for oil drilling is on BP
Khirad : No, Florida totally gets it in that regard. Even the most conservative would consider it political suicide to run on offshore drilling.
PatsyT : Those FLA beaches are very beautiful I can see why they have held off of the drilling
kesmarn : b’ito, I’m relieved to hear that Florida “gets it.”
kesmarn : I think I was asking how it was that people came to think that way, BT. Which was — I realize now — probably more a rhetorical question asked in utter frustration than anything else.
PatsyT : Kilty !!
kesmarn : Khirad,
Blues Tiger : why even ask
Blues Tiger : Ok
PatsyT : With Katrina there was a lot of advance warning- Horizon big surprize
Khirad : Yeah Sue, but don’t take away my funny. I’d created a plaid wearing, split soup eating, venti sipping, lumberjack hipster mafioso in my mind.
kesmarn : An (at least) adequate Katrina response was do-able. There was some warning, and the weather event passed after couple days. But this thing was unstoppable for 88 days. There was nothing Obama could do about that.
Blues Tiger : His personall pics as appointee’s are behind the massive amounts of disperants that have so many down there worried
SueInCa : Katrina was a natural disaster, Horizon was BP and TransOcean neglect
Blues Tiger : it happened on his watch
Blues Tiger : How did Katrina become Bush’s problem
bitohistory : Drilling off Fl is always defeated. tourism and fishing rule.
Khirad : Competing interests, same as it ever was. I get those who are oil riggers, but would think that there could be a way to assure them their jobs, and safety, at the same time.
SueInCa : Khirad, they were in Chicago and Michigan but buying up phony land contracts all over the north from MI to WA
kesmarn : I know I’m asking the obvious, BT, but how did this all get to be OBAMA’s problem??
PatsyT : The Methane thing is very scarry
kesmarn : Oh, please do, Sue. This sounds fascinating…if a little scary.
Blues Tiger : But think about this kes, this resposse is all on Obama and just today they are reporting that things are much more toxic than they expected
Khirad : For some reason the mafia in WA just gives me a comical vision of one who goes native.
SueInCa : Kes, yeah all fraud. I t was a multimillion dollar fraud case and they wanted me to testify for a lousy 700 bucks. I will meet you at the planet and tell you more. Maybe i will write a piece about some of my favs
bitohistory : Depends on what committee he is promised and by whom
Blues Tiger : They do
kesmarn : BT, what about the shrimpers and the fishermen and the resort owners? Do they have any clout politically?
PatsyT : There are still so many rigs out there with the same regulations as the horizon
kesmarn : Sue, the mafia had land contracts? I know it’s O/T but would love to hear more about this sometime.
SueInCa : Khirad, that is an iffy one, I say yes tentatively
Blues Tiger : kes, Offshore drilling is one of the main sources for a decent job down there… Lighter restrictions annd corruption can be dealt with but the effects of a poor response to the spill will be there for decades…
Khirad : Who thinks Crist will caucus with Dems?
SueInCa : No, I never had to testify. I did for a mafia case. My case was a lousy 758 fraud app case and they wanted me to testify against the mafia. I talked them in to tesitfying for me with my paperwork. The broke into TRW in Chicago and stole credit files. They had land contracts all across the northern part of the country from Michigan to WA
Khirad : Yeah, you wold, kes. But these people have been brainwashed to believe that BP’s interests and theirs are one and the same. I give the GOP credit. They’ve really done a good job at that. I really don’t know how they pulled it off. Or, why Dems can’t communicate SIMPLY how absurd it all is.
kesmarn : b’ito, I often read LA as “Los Angeles” at first.
PatsyT : kes I would totally think that – What gives ?
kesmarn : Sue, were you worried about your safety in that fraud case?
SueInCa : Crist was smart to go Indie. He picked up dems by doing so.
kesmarn : Wouldn’t you think having your entire way of life wrecked would make a little dent in your political prejudices?
bitohistory : Aside, When I lived in FL, LA always meant “Lower Alabama”. Funny at the time/
PatsyT : They a super pissed off in FLA I can see Christ winning He is leading Rubio! Crist 35%, Rubio 28%, Meek 17%
SueInCa : I had a fraud case there, the guilty party was a gun runner to Cuba and he stole his godchild’s parents identities…… he was a scary dude, even the SS was afraid of him LOL
kesmarn : Bummer. Since I’ve only been to N’Awlins in LA, guess I can’t judge.
Khirad : Well, Brittany Spears. Need I say more?
SueInCa : No, I cannot. LA maybe a bit, but that interior of LA is probably as bad as the backhills of SC
Khirad : LA, maybe.
Khirad : No, they’re stuck on stupid.
kesmarn : Between Bobby Jindal and Joe Barton, in a word: YES
Blues Tiger : I doubt it PT
PatsyT : LAST TOPIC and yes you can go get a beer if you like CAN ANYONE SEE THE RED STATES IN THE GULF GETTING LITTLE MORE BLUE AFTER THIS BP DISASTER ?
kesmarn : A golden elixir and the source of hilarity and truth?
bitohistory : BEER! What is that?
kesmarn : Hey BT, glad you bounced back.
SueInCa : We had Mexican from the Taqueria. Chicken tacos and a burrito
bitohistory : I think you right Khirad Paris sounds more believable lol
PatsyT : I have leftover pizza
Khirad : I’d thought I’d been on top of the Alabaman crazy funny ads, but until Rachel, I’d totally missed the English only guy. The spoof «link»
Blues Tiger : Hey kes, I had to bounce away for a minute
SueInCa : Thanks Bito and Khirad, I will watch those both
kesmarn : B’ito, I’ll run out for more beer. You get the other bag of pretzels from the pantry.
PatsyT : Hi guests
Khirad : I remember that Hilton spoof. It was scary that she can sound more intelligent reading a script than Palin. She actually seems to register what the words she’s saying mean – on some level.
PatsyT : That learnin stufff is tooo hard
kesmarn : Yes, Patsy, Samuel (Not Joe) the (Not) Plumber who does (not) pay his taxes.
bitohistory : Lordy we now have 5 guests on line
kesmarn : Sue, and like many stupid folk they make up for in doggedness what they lack in brains.
PatsyT : Joe the Ohio not the Plumber ?
bitohistory : seem to be working now
SueInCa : LOL I tell you Kes republicans are one stupid bunch.
PatsyT : kes ((((HUGS)))))
bitohistory : Try this; «link»
kesmarn : You’re doing great, Patsy.
PatsyT : Sorry folks I don’t know how to fly this thing
kesmarn : Sue, Joe the Plumber ran for Republican Central Committee in this county and won — dammit — and this after he “renounced” the Repubs. He just won’t go away. He lives not too far from me.
Khirad : The horse love repellent Kenyan safari one? Also, there’s a more serious one too. I’ll post the spoof one again though: «link»
SueInCa : i tried copy and pasting, no such luck
kesmarn : I think b’ito posted a link earlier, K.
PatsyT : Khirad try again
Khirad : Seriously, no more links?
Khirad : Hayworth stupidity, McCain ad youtube.com/user /JohnMcCaindotco m#p/u/11/S8pEaKn iq6w
kesmarn : BT. did we lose you?
PatsyT : Sue he had one of mis-infomerial running – How to get money out of the Government!
SueInCa : OMG the guy on SNL did him to a T. His Joes the plumber and his friend in the box under the desk
kesmarn : So much corruption. So little time to track it all.
PatsyT : I want a little friend in a box
bitohistory : Right Sue! It was McGrumpy and the Keating thing.
kesmarn : That might have been what I was trying to think of.
SueInCa : For reals Patsy?
PatsyT : The Hay Wow Guy
PatsyT : bito I saw that Ad what a hoax
kesmarn : b’ito, don’t tell me he’s the “ShamWow Guy” !! :lol
SueInCa : I knew there was some scandal, but wan’t he also involved with Abramoff?
PatsyT : Well that McCain try is making them go squirly to the right
bitohistory : Theybare running an ad against Haywood. Guess he did an infomercial for a scam , That and the Keating 5
kesmarn : Oh, the Sarkozy call!! So funny! Your hubby was right. They were toast.
SueInCa : Kes how about in that same speech, ” I couldn’t disagree with you more?” And the call from Sarkozy was hilarious. My husband said after that, it is over they lost and he was right.
PatsyT : kes it’s better that way
kesmarn : I’m trying to remember what it was that Haywood early on in the campaign said that was just crushingly dumb, but it’s getting late and my brain won’t recall it.
PatsyT : He was precious the mac
SueInCa : I liked his little friend in the box on SNL
SueInCa : Jon and Colbert were hilarious all through the lat campaign
kesmarn : K., I missed that one!
Khirad : Remember when Stewart dubbed McCain walking around stage looking for his dog? I almost hyperventilated from laughter!
PatsyT : bito you heard that too ?
kesmarn : Patsy, I’ll always remember his addressing a campaign crowd as “my fellow prisoners.”
SueInCa : He was intimidated by the Obamas. Remember when they left and the Pres and Flotus stayed behind shaking hands?
Khirad : I’ll say this. How surprised must Poppy Bush have been that it was George Jr, not Jeb, that became president in the first place?
bitohistory : (stiil would like to know where all these extra pops come from –and no entries)
PatsyT : Our whole house still laughs at McCain walking in front of the camera at the pres debates Some of my kids like to walk in front of the tele and say – Who am I?
Khirad : Alas, though. We don’t really have much chance against McCain. I was secretly hoping Hayworth would take him down. But, then, considering Arizona, even that’s a gamble asking Arizonans to vote against crazy.
kesmarn : And do they really think that Jebby’s Spanish speaking abilities are going to regain the Hispanic vote? Dream on.
SueInCa : Can anyone but republicans imagine another bush?
bitohistory : Haywood majes Angle look smart/ lol
SueInCa : McShame or Hwyqood, I say McShame.
Khirad : A whole lot of cuh-ray-zee. McCain wasn’t only on the center on stage, physically. He’s been moderating a lot all of a sudden. Which figures, he’s crushing Hayworth in the polls and already moving towards the general.
bitohistory : I forgot about that Khirad. Have to watch it online . Any good?
PatsyT : Yes K please tell Maybe Angle is their dark horse – really really dark horse
kesmarn : b’ito. Wouldn’t that be awful? A THIRD Bush. I might have to swim to Canada.
SueInCa : Bito I already have a file, his family is a train wreck
SueInCa : Khirad, tell all
bitohistory : Saw talk today about Jebby Bush. He is the smart one.
SueInCa : Come on up, it is only about 430 miles LOL but the margaritas are superb
kesmarn : Sue, I know. Why do I find it so amusing sometimes to watch people like Rand Paul and Angle. Train wreck.
Khirad : Speaking of, i just watched the Arizona GOP Senatorial debate.
Khirad : Well, they “groomed” Bush… I’m not talking 2012, either.
PatsyT : Sue I am going to your house!
SueInCa : I just can’t wait to see their debates. Get out the popcorn and the margaritas with cointreau LOL
kesmarn : Brown has voted in unexpected ways a couple of times. Maybe he’s not malleable enough for ’em. Yet.
PatsyT : Groom him? He is already the GQ Dude what else can they do to him?
Khirad : I love it whenever a Repub says one-termer. They can never answer who will take Obama down. Not even THEY know!
SueInCa : I know we got bushed for 8 years
kesmarn : Yes, they’ve demonstrated that brains aren’t a requirement, Sue. And that might give him an edge!
PatsyT : Sue They LOVE that !
Khirad : I’d keep an eye on Scott Brown, though. They might think of grooming him.
SueInCa : Scott Brown seems skittish to me. He does not appear to be strong in the thinking or intellectual dept, but they prob like that
PatsyT : Khirad.. I know a lot of dems that feel like that so yes the TP?GOP will probably toss him aside
kesmarn : I wondered for a while if they would consider running Scott Brown, but — more and more– I think not.
Khirad : Age? Newt has soooo many other problems.
bitohistory : Newt has the wives and ethics. Largest fine in history of the house.
SueInCa : You are prob right Khirad. The rest of the pack is dullards and brainless
kesmarn : Newt, I mean, on age.
kesmarn : And — my goodness — how old is he? I mean how old would he be at the end of a term or two?
Khirad : He’s not the most photogenic, and this really depends on midterms and if they are in the mood to moderate by that time, but if I were a Republican (which I can’t even begin to get inside the head of), I would go with Pawlenty. But, as a Democrat, he’s one of the few GOPers that doesn’t make my skin crawl. So, they’ll likely reject him…
PatsyT : Who gave Romney the mittens name?
SueInCa : Gingrich will have to deal with adultry problems
kesmarn : Newt! Why does this man never go away?!
SueInCa : What is up with Pawlenty? He seems like a pretty good guy but he gets no traction? Huckabee has the cop killer to contend with, Romney has the LBO history and being a mormon and Palin is plain st00pid
bitohistory : New poll today has Newety in the lead. no one has set a trend. MSM think its mittens
Khirad : First, not France!
kesmarn : Oops. Change of subject, Sorry!
kesmarn : I wish I could get my workplace organized. I’ve talked it up (at risk to my job), but people are so terrified right now. They won’t even say the word “union.” Literally.
PatsyT : Yes here we gooooo MITT ROMNEY LEADS PALIN, PAWLENTY AND HUCKABEE IN FUNDRAISING FOR THE 2012 GOP PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY. HILLARY AND RUDY LED IN 2008, SO DO YOU THINK ROMNEY WILL THE NOMINEE? PALIN? SOME OTHER DARK HORSE? WHAT ARE THEIR CHANCES AGAINST OBAMA?
SueInCa : Patsy, ne wtopic? LOL
kesmarn : Right, b’ito. People think you can’t be fired if you’re in the union. Not true. Just has to be documented and fair, not arbitrary.
SueInCa : You were lucky Bito, my husband was IBEW and those guys at PG&E got away with alot, insubordination too…………
PatsyT : O Oh jink K
Khirad : Indeed Bito. the issue of unions is far more complex than this setting allows for.
PatsyT : Bito I know you have a good point so many details you just can’t lump everyone into the same boat
bitohistory : I have layed off my share of Brothers and sisters for poor performance and drugs
Blues Tiger : They closed their ranks… Limited access to all for the Jobs
SueInCa : BT what does that have to do with unions? Firefighters, Police, Politics, Corp, Military, The Trumps, they all do it.
kesmarn : BT, that doesn’t always work out badly. There are families who have 3 generations of doctors in them, too. It’s not unusual to do what you know from having grown up with it.
Blues Tiger : It’s not uncommon for generations of same families to work in same plants
SueInCa : Kes, coke stop one two three……….. ….
kesmarn : Sue, jinx! (Is what I meant!)
bitohistory : I find it difficult to discuss Unions in this type of setting, being a fourth generation union member. The stories causes reasons are lengthy and involved
Blues Tiger : But you want to know why people could care less about the Unions, that is a Prime example…
kesmarn : Sue, jinz!
SueInCa : Correction, that is GMA for missy bush
kesmarn : BT, I do think any employee in a position of responsibility should be expected to pass drug and background checks. But there’s loads of nepotism in management, too.
SueInCa : BT nepotism is everywhere. Otherwise Missy Bush would not be on GNA, she is horrible
kesmarn : Hey, Khirad! Yes, it’s possible for any group to overplay its hand. But in the current state of things, I really would love to see labor in a stronger position.
Blues Tiger : Ok here is a prime example, I know someone that just got hired by GM, a worthless excuse of a human being, a drug dealer who isn’t allowed near his own children, the list is just too long… His Dad is Union with GM… Now this dirtback has ann Union GM Job because his family member is Union… Thats whats wrong with the big Unions…
SueInCa : I know Bito, that is not what I am saying. I am just saying unions need to stay out of performance issues
PatsyT : bito so true there is so much nuance
bitohistory : Not all jobs can be judged on just performance.
PatsyT : Hi Khirad
Khirad : My dad told me a story, I’m sure there’s many such equivalents. The union went on strike at a refinery. The refinery acceded to some demands, but they wanted much more – in fact – they were going way overboard. The refinery closed itself down, set itself up under a new name, and hired them all back for wages much lower. I love unions, I think they are indispensable, I just think that they have shot themselves in the foot from time to time. I’m not being a corporate apologist, but even I can sometimes see the big companies point. Sometimes, just sometimes, the demands really are too much.
kesmarn : b’ito, the only experience I have with organizing and nursing is that one of the three Mercy hospitals in the area joined the Teamsters. Worked out well for them!
SueInCa : BT on the companies offered better wages, what happened now? When an empoloyer can say, unemployed need not apply. They put up with it for awhile and now are getting their way again. It is a BIG HUGE mistake to allow the corporations to go backward.
PatsyT : Obama talks about the Boom and Bust – They also call it the Shampoo effect – Wash Rinse Repeat
bitohistory : Meg Whitman is going after the Nurses Union big time. Did she make a mistake? They are pretty well organized ti CA.
SueInCa : Yes, Patsy. One extreme to another
kesmarn : I would love to see a huge resurgence in union organization and membership. I think it would help people more than they know.
PatsyT : It seems we overcorrect
bitohistory : The demise of Unions has many, many reasons. Books have been written!
SueInCa : I am not a big union fan but I think they serve a good purpose. I just hate it when a union steps in in performance matters. I always was on a pay for performance salaried position and it made me work harder. I didn’t have a grievance union rep to stick up for me so I worked for every promotion I got. I think they should stay out of performance issues.
Blues Tiger : It was good business kes, it wasn’t until the yuppies came along and started penny pinching everything and every employee for bigger bonuses in their pockets that working stiffs started getting screwed
PatsyT : Sue, Thanks I will look that up
kesmarn : But, BT, it was only the threat of a union that made them offer those wages. Not there’s not even a credible threat.
SueInCa : That book is While America Aged by Robert Lowenstein. It is a good book
Blues Tiger : Sue most Companies got wise offered nice wages and benifits without Unions , there was no need to Unionize
kesmarn : There was some union leadership corruption, but when you compare it to corporate corruption, I think it pales. Not that 2 wrongs make a right, but, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. To mix metaphors.
PatsyT : BT run a clean ship and you can get somewhere
SueInCa : I disagree BT, some people were corrupt but that should not break a union, it sure as hell does not hurt the government or police departments. It is more than that
kesmarn : But Papa Reagan told us to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves and provide our own retirement income. What baloney!
Blues Tiger : Unions had problems that helped their own demise, if they hadn’t become so corrupt in their leadership they wouldn’t have been so easy to weaken
SueInCa : I have a book that tells all about those times and how the american people were sold down the river. If I can find it, I will post the name. I dgot it at the $ store lol
SueInCa : During the 50’s and 60’s they got such great contracts for their people. They got almost full pay when laid off and a great pension, healthcare the whole package but at that time the workforce was young, baby boomers now coming of age and expecting those retirement packages…….
PatsyT : BT yes I remember those 70’s and not just the clothes, you could get a job out of high school
PatsyT : Sue good question
kesmarn : Can you elaborate, Sue?
SueInCa : I kind of wonder though if the unions allowed themselves to be broken because they knew they had obligations they were not going to be able to meet.
kesmarn : Yes. She went to the same Catholic academy I did. Those nuns knew how to create subversives.
SueInCa : I oved it when she told the foreclosure people to stay in their homes and not answer the door.
kesmarn : BT, breaking the unions had a lot to do with the loss of the middle class.
PatsyT : Love that Marcy Kaptur (sp)
Blues Tiger : Started in the 70’s PT and has been a slow delibrate steady attack
SueInCa : Exactly I think Obama is missing the boat. I did get a letter from him this week addressing my specific issues though.
kesmarn : Sue, yes, Marcy is amazing. You may have seen her in Michael Moore’s last movie.
kesmarn : Sue, I agree on the nationwide TV addresses. Obama is tech-savvy but not everyone looks at You Tube…especiall y older people.
PatsyT : BT I wish they could see a time line or chart about how the middle class lost it’s lifeblood
SueInCa : Kes your congresswoman is a little spitfire. I like her
kesmarn : Clinton did sign on to NAFTA, and my congresswoman was one of the few folks who opposed him, BT.
SueInCa : BT, but Obama did not send jobs overseas, Clinton did with NAFTA and reagan, bush and bush 2
kesmarn : The T-baggers tap into the anger and mistrust and get people to do things that hurt themselves.
PatsyT : That grizzly thing is such barf!
Blues Tiger : That’s just it Sue when it comes to Jobs going oversea’s, those types of issues there is no difference in Party’s
SueInCa : Obama, imho, needs to do a nationwide talk about the state of things and be honest. FDR did them every week and people trusted him beause at least he told them something. Not some youtube thing something on nationwide tv
kesmarn : Right, Sue. They’re really struggling right now, so it’s hard for them to see how much worse things would have been under Maverick/Grizzly .
SueInCa : They will try to repeal HC, you will have a job at McDonalds and should be happy about it, who sent our jobs overseas. Alotof things to remind people of, even the poor who don’t feel they really have a say
kesmarn : One of the most discouraging things in when the poor buy into the idea that there’s no difference between the parties. “They’re all crooked. Why bother?”
PatsyT : Sue thats good .. What have they done for you lately?
SueInCa : It is still the recession of Bush, the party of no has done nothing for you, tbaggers, corporate support(blatant) , tax for the wealthy will be continued……. …….
kesmarn : A lot of the Dems I know are — to be candid — poor folks and they’re feeling a bit desperate right now. So they don’t see the use of voting.
PatsyT : Sue, how else would you advise the dems.. so far I like the comparison thing … What else should they emphasize ?
SueInCa : Tim Kaine is a loser. He is doing nothing we need Howard back
bitohistory : Dems seem, to me. to always have the biggest problem on GOTV
SueInCa : If we can get them to the polls, they will lose nerve at the last minute and vote dem. I dd that with hillary and Obama, but I ended up vting hillary in the primary. It was a hard decision
kesmarn : Yes, how can they say they’re not racist? It’s so obvious.
kesmarn : Ahhh. I see. Just sit this one out. Ouch.
bitohistory : Seems that the Dems are just not going to vote ?
PatsyT : TParty just can’t get away from the racism thing no matter how they try… Who do they think kthey are kidding?
SueInCa : I think apathy more than anything will keep some at home. It is a damn shame
kesmarn : Do you think Progressives will vote Green in the fall? There are some around here who plan to do that.
kesmarn : b’ito, I have to wonder — abandon the Dem Party for WHOM? What have the T-Party or Repubs to offer?
SueInCa : Dems need to be in “lockstep this one year. If our party fails to hang together, we will get what we asked for
bitohistory : «link» this is an interesting site for polls.
bitohistory : “Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to think their party is headed in the right direction. But at the same time unhappy Democrats are much more likely to abandon their party at the polls this year than unhappy Republicans…re ad the full post here.
kesmarn : I’ve gone back there a bit more often recently, Sue, and they don’t seem to have the numbers or the spunk they once had.
SueInCa : Kes, I am not real clear on why that did not happen
PatsyT : kes It is looking better They have the upper hand on the facts
SueInCa : If you ever go on huffy, the trolls seem to be really desparate
kesmarn : It’s starting to look better, Patsy! The only argument I’ve heard lately that anyone is halfway buying is that the Repubs would have passed unemployment if the Dems had agreed to pay for it out of the stimulus $.
SueInCa : I think so, a new poll came out showing 75% or something like that disapprove of rep and the polls on unemployment were not fav either
PatsyT : WITH THE BP OIL SPILL POSSIBLY BEING CAPPED, FINANCIAL REFORM BEING PASSED, THE GOP CALLING FOR ALL PROGRESS TO BE REPEALED, A MORATORIUM ON GOVERNMENT TO BE PUT IN PLACE, UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BLOCKED ON CLAIMS OF INCREASING THE DEFICIT WHILE THE CLAMOR FOR BILLIONS FOR THE BUSH TAX CUTS AND TEA PARTY NUTS LIKE ANGLE AND PAUL TRUMPET HOW LOONLY THEY ARE …..COULD OBAMA AND THE DEMS BE TURNING THE CORNER ON THE GOP ???
SueInCa : Kes, I call it smart
PatsyT : Well how about our 1st topic…….
kesmarn : Me too, Sue. Way too uppity.
SueInCa : I would love to be in a room with these people for 15 minutes. they would kick me out
kesmarn : Did you know that women should thank the kind men who let them vote? Because they didn’t HAVE to do that. That was part of his “history.”
Blues Tiger : The State Board of Education (SBOE), an elected 15 member board, and the Commissioner of Education oversee the public education system of Texas in accordance with the Texas Education Code.
SueInCa : I am just amazed at their revisionist thinking. I would be embarassed
kesmarn : That wacky dentist was the worst of ’em, when it came to re-writing history.
kesmarn : I thought they were elected, but I could be totally wrong on that, b’ito.
SueInCa : Bito those are RR nutjobs that slithered into the positions whrn people were not paying attention
bitohistory : Does the Governor appoint that SB in Texas?
kesmarn : Michelle’s “guns” put Beck’s to shame.
SueInCa : They just can’t handle someone smart and well dressed in the FLOTUS role. Good bod to boot LOL
kesmarn : b’ito, I’m sooo relieved to hear that most Texans disagree. I was worried. Also saw 72% DISapproval rate for the Repub party nationwide!
Blues Tiger : helloooooooooo PT
kesmarn : Yes, Sue. I saw that outfit and the thought never entered my mind.
bitohistory : Saw a poll of Texans and they completely disagreed with the state school board
Blues Tiger : helloooooosue
Blues Tiger : helloooooo kes
PatsyT : Hi Blues Tiger We will get going in a mmooooooment
SueInCa : hi tiger
kesmarn : Hey, BT! Have some Cheetos!
SueInCa : OK now he is just being an idiot. Most times he is a goofball, but black splashes on a white shirt? OMG
Blues Tiger : helloooooooooooo oooooooooooo everyone
kesmarn : He actually noticed that she wore a top that had black splash-like patterns on a white background and his paranoia kicked in to turn that into a deliberate insult.
kesmarn : One of those puffer fish?
SueInCa : What was up with the outfit thing? I know Laura Bush was a librarian and not very exciting but does beck u think everyone is as drab as her?
PatsyT : A gas Bag!
kesmarn : A crocodile…as in phony tears?
PatsyT : A RAT
SueInCa : New phrase for me, Oh Beck U
kesmarn : What would their mascot be? A weasel?
kesmarn : It seems like a middle finger should go along with that. I can see how the cheerleaders might get into trouble with that one.
PatsyT : Beck U !!!!
PatsyT : I’ll start the topic in a moment lets see who else may come by
SueInCa : Oh wait Patsy, Beck U, I like that
kesmarn : He should locate Beck U in Texas and have their crazy school board supply the revisionist history.
SueInCa : you can join for like some ridiculous sum monthly. Beck U is a misnomer if I ever heard one
PatsyT : kes because it IS ! ding ding winner!
kesmarn : I heard about Beck U. Why does that sound like an expletive?
SueInCa : No that poump does all the work. I bet he is not long will never get to the Hague
PatsyT : Beck University ?
SueInCa : trying to figure out to size it
kesmarn : Seriously? Is Cheney flat-lining?
PatsyT : Sue LOLOOLLOOLL
kesmarn : My computer is occasionally possessed by evil spirits and acts up badly.
SueInCa : Glenduh is a fool. Did you hear cheney has no pulse now? i thought that was always the case lol
PatsyT : Sue I cleared history and shut things down then opened back up and all was ok
kesmarn : Yeah, Beck said that Michelle was Marie Antoinette mocking the oil spill victims with her clothes. He really is deranged.
PatsyT : Welll I hope the tech devil keeps away tonight I’ll light some incense
SueInCa : having trouble with the size of my screen can’t see the last post, tech challenged
PatsyT : Yeah Hi Sue !
kesmarn : Whew, Sue, we thought we’d lost ya.
kesmarn : Okay, b’ito. What’s your excuse?
SueInCa : I am here was getting a snack
PatsyT : Beck really ? That is way too funny
kesmarn : Sue! b’ito! Speak to us!
kesmarn : Or about how terrible it was that the First Lady wore a spotted b and w outfit to the oil spill. Glenn Beck was outraged.
PatsyT : Bito and Sue if you are there can you are you able to post?
PatsyT : Well kes if it’s is just us we can talk about wrinkle creams
kesmarn : Do you have to have an Ohio connection to post?
PatsyT : It helped me when I cleared history shut things down and then opened again
kesmarn : Likewise, Patsy, but WE SEEM TO BE ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE.
PatsyT : Well kes I can see you
kesmarn : TECH SUPPORT!! TECH SUPPORT!!
kesmarn : I hear the “popping” sound, but then there’s no comment!
PatsyT : kes I hear pops and then there is no post…Are we being watched?
kesmarn : There seem to be comments that are invisible to me… or am I going Sharonn Angle paranoid?
PatsyT : Well don’t feel too bad about the heat It has finally gotten hot in So Cal
kesmarn : Oops! I seem to be having technical difficulties.
PatsyT : Oh the power of AC
PatsyT : Hi Questina Did you feel the earthquake ?
kesmarn : I hope it’s better by then,Patsy. My A/C never goes off!
PatsyT : Oh boy kes we are going to Ohio at the end of Aug I hope it won’t be too tropical
kesmarn : It was 94 F yesterday — heat index made it feel like 100.
kesmarn : Hey, Patsy and all, you saw me come in (again)!
PatsyT : Kes I hope Ohio cools down soon
PatsyT : Hi everyone! How is your evening?
bitohistory : Do you ever wonder who those “guests on line” are and what they are thinking?
Questinia : In a fugue…
kesmarn : We’ll fugue and gavotte to the Remembrance theme over there, then.
Questinia : I think we’re both in the dancin’ mood.
kesmarn : See ya inna few….
kesmarn : Guess I’ll mosey back to the music thread and just put these Cheetos back where I found ’em…
Questinia : Adlib absolves
kesmarn : Jeez, my Catholic guilt is starting to strike.
Questinia : Okaaaaay
Questinia : Only for the Libster
kesmarn : I fear we are kindred spirits…could that be trouble?
Questinia : I’m always lost when I fugue
Questinia : Kes. I love your spirit!
kesmarn : Or fugue, if the mood strikes you.
Questinia : Gavotte ONLY if you can gigue
kesmarn : And gavotte…especi ally gavotte.
Questinia : Then shuffle
Questinia : Then prance
kesmarn : Run toward the light!!
Questinia : Adlib can clear ANY room….with his brilliant light and aura.
kesmarn : Hey, Q! I was trying to start the party early and everyone ran away when AbLib showed up briefly.
Questinia : …one kernel at a time
Questinia : Who’s making popcorn?
kesmarn : Oops. Heh heh. Hi, boss.
kesmarn : Let’s start Vox Pop early and not tell the boss.
SueInCa : Hi Patsy, I may join tonite for a while
PatsyT : Now I am just a sub… So everyone will have to be on their best behavior
AdLib : Hi! Vox Populi, our live, real time chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00 pm PDT. You can join in via the sidebar or on the Vox Populi page by clicking this link: «link» Guest hosting for me tonight is the fabulous, PatsyT! Cheers to Patsy and have a great chat all! BTW, don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive.