Vox Populi – 5-21-2010

AdLib : Bonsoir, ma amie! A tu aussi!

PatsyT : A demain! Bonne week-end!

AdLib : Mood Might!

PatsyT : Ok Too much info

AdLib : It all depends if it is before or after I blow my nose.

PatsyT : Well which is it a B or a M ?

AdLib : A bientot!

PatsyT : Bonne nuit

PatsyT : Sweet dreams

AdLib : Night javaz!!!

AdLib : Night Patsy!!!

PatsyT : That sounds like a plan…. nighty night all

AdLib : Yes, it has been a wide ranging and enjoyable Vox Populi! I’ve missed it, sorry for keeping you all up so late! See you next week, same time, same place!

javaz : Bon soir mes amis!

javaz : Are we going to bed yet? My husband just asked me that, and so I will bid you all adieu and hope you all have sweet dreams.

javaz : LOL

AdLib : As for cups and helmets, the primary rule about baseball is to keep your eye on the ball THEN worry about whose ahead.

javaz : Don’t blame pedophilia on the celibacy thing when it comes to the church.

AdLib : Javaz – I totally agree with where you’re going on this, if most religions weren’t centered around men being in power, there would probably be a lot less hang ups about sex. The pagan religions that were more about Gaia and had women as central religious figures were far more at ease about sex.

javaz : I’m one of them wimmen livers – LMAO – in fact my husband just said that the other day – he had to marry a goddamn feminist – and that was funny, because my husband is a feminist, too.

PatsyT : «link» about the baseball

AdLib : javaz – It’s not that “you men” are weak, their religion was designed this way 2,000 years ago. Why must Catholic priests be celibate? Look at all the awful things that have come from that. Hey, remember who came over to this continent first from Europe? The Puritans. And look how messed up that made America.

javaz : LOL

PatsyT : OK Javez I love that Perfect!!!

javaz : joke time – when baseball first started, they made sure that men’s bits were protected by a cup and then it took baseball nearly 50 years to figure out that they had to wear helmets to protect their brains.

PatsyT : Javez I hear you they have such a long road

AdLib : javaz – Yes, in the U.S, Muslim women do have a choice and some do choose to wear burkas. In Muslim nations, you are right, they have no choice or they could be jailed, beaten or killed.

javaz : My God or my Allah, how freaking weak are you men that you can’t handle seeing a woman’s face or legs or breasts – this is going back to the USA when women didn’t wear pants and couldn’t vote and it was Eve’s fault that Adam ate the apple. It took the Devil to tempt Eve and then all it took was a human and a woman to tempt Adam?

AdLib : Patsy – We need to keep in mind that in their society and many religious Muslims congregate mostly among other Muslims, they could be outcast in this country by their community for not conforming (in a Muslim nation, they could be beaten or killed according to law). I don’t agree with this nor think it is a good thing, it is a part of the Muslim religion.

PatsyT : Oh the brains that they let go dorment They need the women to balance their hyper male turbo drive.

PatsyT : Those women that do not want to be in public may be doing that because they are oppressed and ashamed

javaz : The women that wear burkas, AdLib, do not have a choice.

javaz : We may not have the brawn, but us “little women” have the brains – OMG, Patsy, that last comment was meant as a joke, right?

AdLib : javaz – Don’t all religions teach from childhood on, how one should be and perceive things? Though I can’t imagine any woman preferring to wear a burka, wouldn’t it be interfering with someone else’s religious beliefs if they wanted to? The slippery slope is having people from one religion insisting that those following the traditions or dogma from another religion be prevented from doing so.

PatsyT : Can I just say that the burka thing may come in handy for those gals that do not want to show up in public anyway

javaz : Patsy, we’re still fighting for our rights here!

PatsyT : Javez it was not always like this in America, and it can change. If they could offer a perfect world where a women would never get pregnant by rape or insest or never have to risk their own life to bear another or have a child that would have endless special needs care – then we could talk about eliminating the need for abortions

javaz : Jesus, AdLib – you really do not want to go there. Women who want to wear the burka? Hay-zeus, don’t go there. Ever heard of brainwashing and teaching people that they are less than they’re worth? This is the 21st Century, and it’s about time that that shit stops.

AdLib : javaz – Absolutely, you’ve put your finger on American extremists who are very similar to the Muslims they see as beneath them. Intolerance for the beliefs of any who don’t think as they do. That thinking is poisonous. Which is why all I’m saying is that we shouldn’t give up our innate sense of goodwill towards other human beings because of differences. At the same time, we should never hesitate to oppose those who are intolerant of others who are not the same as them.

javaz : It’s MY body, and I have the right, or should, to do birth control and if I am raped or am carrying a baby that I do not want – it is my body and I should not need permission.

AdLib : I am aware of some Muslim women who like wearing burkas and some who don’t. For those that do, they may be a bit conditioned and/or feel it is making them more faithful to their religion. This can be an argument about religion, those indoctrinated to any religion as a child may adopt it as righteous for their whole lives even if it may sublimate them and their futures.

javaz : AdLib, that would be a perfect world, but look no further than the USA and how the Christian right hates women and our right to choose.

AdLib : We don’t need to tolerate other’s intolerance though, just their cultural differences that don’t infringe on our freedoms.

javaz : oops – left out that I am equal hating woman that hates people and religions that hate me.

AdLib : javaz – Your feelings are honest. I think though that just as we want those Muslims out there who are upset by cartoons and other perceived insults of their religion, to get over such messed up reactions, we too have to get over generalizing about Muslims because of 9/11, burkas, etc. They should learn to be more tolerant and we should be too.

javaz : And the Catholic Church and every religion hates women and I hate them, too, so my hate of religion when it comes to hating women – I am an equal hating them back.

PatsyT : I don’t think you can measure how those women feel when they are so sheltered .

PatsyT : Javez I am with you there on the burqa thing I offten wonder how those women really feel?

AdLib : Patsy – I actually think the Texas school book thing will isolate TX more and that the schools that would typically order books from the same publishers simply won’t. I’ll bet many in TX will pull their kids from public schools so they can get a real education and those who can’t afford it will have their kids educated even worse. Do these loons even consider that their mis-educated kids will have trouble getting into colleges outside of TX?

javaz : YIKES! Was my anti-Muslim thing too much? LMAO It really is how I feel though and I’ve tried to talk myself out of it by relating to the Japanese and interment camps, but it is not the same thing. They hate us, and they hate women, so I hate them.

PatsyT : Another group from Facebook – Tom Jefferson «link»

javaz : Here’s where you will hate me again, but when it comes to Europe, and even Canada, they really deal with Muslims. I admit to being a racist when it comes to Muslims, because of 9/11 and the burqa thing. I am prejudiced against Muslims and how they bomb or kill people over a cartoon. We’re lucky in this country that all we have to deal with is illegal Mexicans, and not Muslims. You do know that Muslims must be granted time off 3 times per day to pray on their rugs, and we’ve lived in Montreal and more so France, and I so support France in wanting to ban the burqa. If that makes me a racist, so be it, but Marion has even written articles here how Sharai Law is adhered to in the UK.

PatsyT : That Texas school book thing makes me sick but maybe this will make another state take over and take away the business California??? you need some income ??? hmmm ???

AdLib : Patsy – But the 98% and other groups including GROW need to recognize that numbers and reason aren’t enough. Getting the message out as big as possible is most important. The Baggers that are truly active and grass roots are a tiny fraction of voters but get enormous coverage. That’s what we Progressives need to accomplish with our far bigger numbers, be a force!

PatsyT : Ahhh I know the terirtory

PatsyT : The other 98% have a undisputable arguement

AdLib : Patsy – Not really, she was very innocent about it all, she just loves her home as most kids do and right now imagines living in it for ever and ever.

AdLib : Patsy – Very cool! GROW should definitely hook up with them and other grass roots groups like them. THAT is what we can do! Get active ourselves then focus on networking together the many groups out there that are doing the same. That would represent real power for the people!

PatsyT : Adlib It sound like you have a ?-? She who must be obeyed-

AdLib : I’m concerned too for what this nation will be like when my 6 year old is an adult. She already said she wants to keep our house and that Mom and Dad could move to France but she’ll visit every week.

javaz : AdLib, they hate a black man in the White House, and at least Rand Paul was honest before he lied.

PatsyT : «link»

PatsyT : the other 98%

javaz : The hope for the future does lie with the young.

AdLib : I have said this and will again, the core of the Teabagger movement are Repub frauds. They do not want revolution, they want an uprising against Obama to interfere with his ability to be an effective president. If there’s a Repub president, there isn’t a chance they will continue this crap.

PatsyT : No joke but on facebook I have found groups like

PatsyT : As a mom of an 18 year old I must say that I am active because I want to see a better world for her.

AdLib : javaz – The bigger issue that’s raised is that it would take a community that doesn’t have to follow U.S. law to provide constitutionally assured services. That is messed up.

javaz : I guess the question is – how can we stop it? Or maybe better yet – how do we that aren’t teabaggers, start a revolution? Well, first off, we’re too old, and we’ve been there done that, so how do we inspire the young to act?

PatsyT : Adlib no kidding this is setting our young people to fail!

AdLib : How many people graduating college today will one day be able to put $100k cash down and pay on a $400k loan?

PatsyT : Javez The Indians are the ones who should be in control of things much more then they are now… I feel they would do a better job.

AdLib : Patsy – In L.A., even with the recession, the median price in an average neighborhood is maybe between $400k-$500k.

PatsyT : Home prices… have gotten way out of line… who can afford a starter home anymore?

javaz : Does anyone else remember when North Dakota was trying to ban abortion that the Indians on the REZ said that they’d build clinics and do it?

AdLib : javaz – But how little are Americans willing to settle for? A majority were fighting against HCR! These idjits will vote themselves into poverty if scared properly.

PatsyT : nighty night Q

AdLib : Goodnight Q!

javaz : Night Q!

javaz : Yep, AdLib, and it’s sad, but Americans are adjusting.

Questinia : I am off now. I wish you all a Califantastic evening!!

javaz : That rancher, AdLib, I said it right off – why would a Mexican walk 20 miles in to kill him and then walk 20 miles back? They have stopped exploiting that, but the memory lingers. Finish the dang fence! LMAO and the sheriff McCain is walking with is ours! Babeu! Do you know how far we are from the border? What a freaking joke.

AdLib : javaz – The frank reality today is that children becoming adults now DON’T have a better life than their parents. College grads are coming out into a nation with terrible unemployment, stagnant wages, declining state and local services and home prices way out of reach. It’s already that way!

javaz : Do you think that your children will have a better life than you? Isn’t that part of the American Dream – that your children will outdo you?

AdLib : It is ironic that Mexicans and Native Americans, who originally lived on and were brutally driven off the land that is now Arizona, when they return, are called “illegal immigrants”. Did everyone see that, just as I and many others suspected, the rancher who’s murder was attributed to “illegals” and exploited to pass this bill…is now suspected to have been committed by a citizen? Sadly, not a surprise to me or anyone who was told about WMDs in Iraq or the Gulf of Tonkin.

PatsyT : Ahh, Javez, then the Indians should decide, I will honor that, they were here first.

Questinia : It needs to get VERY UGLY. And luckily the RW is VERY UGLY.

Questinia : Adlib, that’s the sad thing.

javaz : Some thing else that hasn’t made the news is that the Indians – Pima and Navajo – are fighting the law, and taking it to court, but heck, you know, white man owned this land first! According to Russell Pearce! LOL

PatsyT : Javez, I have said this in many posts ?-?- Who was here first? Spanish people or people in tract housing…just my question

AdLib : Arizona and Texas seem to be competing for who can go back to the 1900’s the fastest.

javaz : Did you know that ASU stopped their popular Mariachi Band class? And that’s another sad thing, but it doesn’t make the news. The university had to cut the class because of SB1070 and they are firing teachers with Mexican accents. Gosh, what a sad thing to lose our heritage.

AdLib : Q – How’s that? Aren’t all native Americans white?

PatsyT : Children should never be the ones that suffer.

AdLib : Q: I always aim high, I think there are opportunities. I did want to point out why those Bagger loonies became so famous. Remember the PUMAs? They were a Repub front group too, also promoted by Fox.

Questinia : Anybody else worried that the Arizona immigration law could cause many native americans to be picked up?

AdLib : javaz – I think the aspects that allow people to marry solely for citizenship or green cards could be changed. I worry about preventing children born in the U.S. from being citizens because there would have to be specific restrictions as to who would or wouldn’t be eligible and that could be abused by those less sympathetic to people of color.

javaz : Where we live, and it is rural, but we always saw Mexicans working in yards but no more, and I think that’s very sad. People’s yards are being overgrown and things are going downhill, so maybe if someone is young they could start a service? Seriously, I can see that there no more Mexicans.

Questinia : Darn tootin’

Questinia : Fox has a history and pedigree of sorts. it’s been around. We can get something established too.

PatsyT : Q that is true about the people not watching TV as much.

AdLib : Q – The drawback is that without a PR machine like Fox News, it can be challenging to build up awareness. Marketing is the key issue usually, not the creation of something cool.

Questinia : Media, media, media,Media, media, media,Media, media, media,Media, media, mediaMedia, media, mediaMedia, media, mediaMedia, media, media!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

javaz : Yes, I agree, AdLib, but there’s something to be said for illegals having children here and then they get the AHCCS and benefits. Okay, I guess that I need to see the numbers, and believe me, I hate the SB1070 law, and God, what a mess for me morally.

AdLib : Q – We will definitely be pursuing that with GROW. Just saying, if you know any Progressives with a few million, I’m totally open to that.

Questinia : More and more people aren’t watching TV, I mean.

Questinia : But people aren’t watching TV. This is the time to create a network on the net.

AdLib : Q – I agree that the internet gives a potential avenue but let’s face it, millions of bucks and a huge news network would be faster and more assured.

PatsyT : Q jinx

Questinia : i love bling cherries.

PatsyT : I love bing cheries

AdLib : Bing has to crawl before it can run.

javaz : I think we should repeal the 14th amendment and I despise Russell Pearce with a passion, and he’s a Mormon, and he is hurting his church, but on that one, I think that I agree. Am I wrong?

AdLib : javaz – I just don’t think that it’s as prevalent as it’s said to be. Most people who are immigrants and have children here are productive citizens and there is no reason there kids should not be included in our society.

PatsyT : Bing is crawling the ?

Questinia : adlib- but isn’t that beauty of the internet? it is beyond Corps. at least so far… we can’t work within the system of corporations. we need to fight outside their reach. Vox populi Corp!

PatsyT : Javez It needs a total makeover

javaz : I don’t like it that people rush over while in labor so that their child can be born here, and then they collect benefits for their child, and I don’t think that is right. Would someone tell me why I am wrong?

AdLib : Bye Kes!

PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes all the best to you

AdLib : Hey, if GROW had MSNBC promoting it and George Soros financing it, it would be just as huge. That’s the paradox, if you’re a tool of the corps, it works for you but if you’re an anti-corp group, that’s not really a viable path.

Questinia : Adios, kes!

kesmarn : ‘Fraid I’m gonna have to exit now, friends. Have to do some stuff before my working weekend begins. Adios!

Questinia : in our little issue, the local newspaper gave us GREAT coverage was very pro our issue and was slanted toward it.

PatsyT : Imagine if GROW had that

Questinia : Adlib.= see? we have you-tube and the like.

AdLib : Q – The Tea Party thing worked ONLY because they had a huge news station as a co-promoter (Fox) along with a multi-million dollar founder and organizer called FreedomWorks. How many “grass roots” groups have that?

Questinia : The democrats would come up with the Gettysburg Address Party

javaz : May I ask what you all think of appealing the 14th amendment that grants citizenship to people born here? I’m sort of for it, and would like anyone to tell me that it is wrong for me to be for repeal. I think from my basic understanding of history that the 14th amendment came into being so that the slaves and then their children born here became citizens.

Questinia : i think the tea party meme thing or what ever you want to call it is brilliant.

AdLib : The RW uses despising and denial of being gay.

kesmarn : The RW has harnessed the power of Despising. They could light cities with it.

PatsyT : Javez …Clinton ? That is not that far off I think of Nixon – who was a quaker (?) He was for health care Oh well …

Questinia : despising can be a creative energy. what do you think the RW uses?

AdLib : Patsy – I think there are many potential candidates for CoS. Rahm is not uniquely talented, just uniquely damaging to Obama’s presidency and agenda.

kesmarn : As a card-carrying member of Despisers Anonymous, I’m trying to give it up, but Ann Coulter is my personal nemesis.

Questinia : Be at one with despising. I KNOW you guys are from Cali and all, but…

AdLib : I hate despising but in this case, I’ll make an exception and be happy to be despising.

Questinia : for some reason I’m all for despising Rahm. I think we should get into despising a bit more.

AdLib : javaz – Addressing your and others comments about why Obama has been too reserved and misguided in his initiatives. Rahm is pushing things in the worst directions constantly.

Questinia : Rahmada Out!

AdLib : Heh! Here’s the binary version: Rahm = bad.

javaz : Oh gosh, now we are hating Rahm? I missed the change in topic!!! LOL I like his name, but he’s a Clintonite and Bill Clinton was the best Republican ever elected, and you’ll hate me for saying that, too, but Clinton gave us NAFTA and the housing market that set us up for the bubble.

Questinia : adlib- AY CARAMBA!!!

AdLib : From Mother Jones: Blame Rahm for Immigration Inaction? — By Suzy Khimm | Fri May. 21, 2010 12:00 PM PDT Despite his harsh rebuke of Arizona’s new immigration law, President Obama has made it clear that he won’t push for reform this year, citing a lack of “appetite” in Congress. Frustrated by the inaction, pro-reform lawmakers and advocates have pointed the finger at one White House official: chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. Immigration advocates have long seen Emanuel as their nemesis. He’s often cautioned that the issue was politically treacherous, particularly for centrist and moderate Democrats. And reformers are blaming him for the current hold-up, as the Los Angeles Times reports: “There’s always a sense that no matter how hard we work, to get through the White House, we have to get through Rahm,” said U.S. Rep. Raul M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.). “I would like immigration not to be part of the chief of staff’s portfolio. It would make our ability to convince and access decision-makers in the White House a lot easier.” As a top aide to former President Bill Clinton, he stressed the message that Clinton was hard-nosed about policing illegal immigration. Later, as a Chicago congressman who took on the assignment of installing more Democrats in the House, Emanuel cautioned that immigration was the “third rail of American politics,” dangerous to those who touch it. Now, as Obama’s top aide, Emanuel has argued much the same thing in private meetings…Democra tic lawmakers and advocates who have clashed with Emanuel over the years fear that immigration is destined to be a second-tier priority as long as he is in his current role. «link»

PatsyT : If not Rahm, then who?

kesmarn : I think the SEIU got a reaction from showing up 700 strong on the bankers’ front lawns. That was noticed.

Questinia : “political death”? So Rahm’s like a Rove.

AdLib : Rahm comes from the position that is pro-corporations (DLC) and pro-status quo. He has declared many things “political death” such as a public option in HCR and most recently, immigration reform. He is really awful.

Questinia : In short, it’s akin to creating the village pillory, stock and what have you. Parading the corrupt and humiliating them. Seeing their names googled with something extremely embarrassing. Don’t forget these guys on their own are not media savvy nor do they know how to produce film etc…

PatsyT : I don’t want to hate Rahm ….can we just make him better? Can all these recent events make it very clear that no more corporate control will win the day?

javaz : No, AdLib, the focus is on illegals and menial jobs, no one talks about the good jobs being stripped from Americans and sent to other countries. Rand Paul actually believes, as does John McCain, that we shouldn’t punish the corporations or businesses that hire illegals, we have to punish the illegals. Oh, that’s another story – do people realize how much money it would take to round ’em up and ship ’em out? And besides that, are Americans ready to pay 7 dollars for a head of lettuce? The corporations and corporate farmers need illegals.

kesmarn : It’s walking a fine line, though, too, no? To be attention getting without making the quality of the dialog “poisonous,” to use Obama’s term?

AdLib : Q – Rahm is King Midas in reverse. Anything he touches turns to failure or is a shadow of what it could be. He needs to go.

Questinia : Adlib. If you say Rahm must go. Then Rahm MUST go. i believe you… he appears to be all assertion and little to be said about it. Except it fucks up.

AdLib : Q – As we’ve discussed with GROW, we do have to “get” what works and attention-gettin g approaches get promoted on the MSM and YouTube while thoughtful protests, letters and petitions don’t.

kesmarn : javaz, to go back to your question on the corps taking jobs and outsourcing them. I think there’s a subset of people who believe that trying to stop that is “government interference” in capitalism. (?!)

AdLib : javaz – I think there is outrage at corps and banks, that’s what’s driven financial reform to get passed, only because of that. But we need far bigger and more intrinsic fixes.

Questinia : Patsy, what, vulgarity? it is very media driven,film and you-tube driven. highly edited, very in your face. Annoying and humiliating to the powers-that-be. It is a mini-Moore on steroids and uncensored.

javaz : Sigh.

kesmarn : OOOOhhh! Sam Adams…sounds good. Just glad your ‘puter is working.

AdLib : Q – Again and again, most recently in an article in the LAT on the WH stalling immigration reform, DLCer Rahm Emanuel seems to be the one messing up every intiative coming from Obama. Rahm must go and then the liberals in his admin will have more influence.

PatsyT : Q I am curious how do you apply that?

Questinia : The activism I am part of now is very binary, play to the pit bordering on vulgar. it is working and I love it. Any chance to be vulgar.

PatsyT : Not Scotch just a sam adams but this type looks different from my view nevertheless forget that how have you all been?

javaz : Did I miss something? Where is the outrage over corporations taking good paying jobs from Americans and outsourcing? Wasn’t that one of Obama’s promises? I get it, that Obama’s busy taking care of business, but where is the outrage from corporations taking good paying jobs from Americans and outsourcing?

kesmarn : Forgive us for teasing you, Patsy! Mea culpa! Ole!

Questinia : Ad- That’s what I was screaming out. And I blame obama. he introduced a NEW term. He was all the NEW many people could take. It was surprisingly dimwitted.

AdLib : Kes – Maybe Patsy is speaking in Scotch?

kesmarn : Patsy, are you speaking Dutch? Or Spanish? Ole!

AdLib : Q – I do agree, keeping things simple then going into the details for those who can deal with them is a better way for Dems to go. Imagine if the Dems all got together before HCR and agreed, “Let’s just announce we want Medicare for all!” Imagine how much easier and better that all would have been!

javaz : Well, that felt good to vent, but now I want to ask you all, what can we do to stop it? I hate feeling powerless.

PatsyT : I ment fire Fox

PatsyT : I am on an ole fire fow thing I do not know this works but my type is in ole dutch

kesmarn : Or…we could have a powerful authority figure ORDER them to start thinking critically…

AdLib : PATSY! You can see comments! A Planet Miracle!

Questinia : I tried DWP, but the lighting was deplorable.

PatsyT : PWP People with out perfume

kesmarn : Q, heh! Yes, these days doctoring is one of the hardest ways to get rich, from what I observe!

Questinia : They’ll get confused!

Questinia : Binary can be the mass talk. then go gray on ’em. binary and switch. Then give a binary reason for the switch. play a binary shell game.

kesmarn : The right-wing authoritarian personality types in my family are big on lotsa rules, simple declarative sentences, hyper-emotional patriotism and a side of racism.

AdLib : Q – You could join DWP – Doctors Without Perfume

Questinia : Yes! Health care should be so the doctors can get rich again and take trips to Cannes.

AdLib : Q – The binary code doesn’t work though for dealing with reality intelligently, as the 8 years of Bush and the GOP proved.

Questinia : Kes, It’s about the ONLY thing I know! LOL

PatsyT : Long story that I can not explain or understand. My basset hound enjoyed the abbilty to sit in my lap though.

javaz : I want to take our country back, but not the way the Tea Party means. I want to take our country back whereby health care wasn’t for profit – does anyone else remember those days? Hospitals now are owned by corporations, and we are so fucked – excuse my French – and I want workers wages – good wages and not worry about outsourcing. That’s what kills me with the SB1070 is that everyone is so outraged over low paying jobs, well, what about the good paying jobs – engineering and manufacturing – that corporations send to Mexico, India, and Brazil? Where is the outrage of corporations taking good paying jobs from Americans?

kesmarn : Q, my bad! My ignorance is showing!

Questinia : The binary code works for computers. I think it needs to be adopted more. Gray DOES NOT WORK!!!

kesmarn : Patsy! I wondered what happened to you. Did you go to Live Events at the top and hit Vox Pop?

Questinia : Kes, that’s actually an older book than Shock Doc

AdLib : Patsy! We can see you!

PatsyT : Oh Boy Oh Boy Is this working ?

kesmarn : Q, haven’t read Klein’s latest, sorry to say.

Questinia : The mayor of the town we are fighting in is getting payola from Atlantic Richfield in a completely different matter, to your point adlib.

kesmarn : I see where you’re coming from, javaz. Do you feel that there’s been some good that has come from having him in the Whitehouse, though? Or no diff from Bush? I guess I’m so relieved to have Bush outta there, it seems a huge improvement now.

AdLib : Q – Because IMO, the RW are all about the simnple binary nature of everything. Good and bad. Us and Them. Teabagging and Marxists. The liberal mind allows people to see shades of gray so simplistic bullshit like the RW uses to herd their sheep wouldn’t work.

Questinia : Precisely, kes. i still have to read No Logo by Naomi Klein. Anybody here read it?

javaz : No, Kes, I do think Obama is honest, but he has to play the game, and you do know that Goldman Sachs and BP were two of his biggest contributors? Honesty got JFK killed, and our politicians have learned to bow to the masters. YIKES, I sound like an Alex Jones nutjob! LMAO

AdLib : If local activists proliferate around the country, it would not be beyond imagination to conceive of them networking and using their power to push back against corporations on a local and national level. The more people are oppressed by banks and corps and the more they dominate our democracy, the more activists are born (just as more terrorists are born of oppression).

kesmarn : Logos, branding and appealing to low info voters’ basest instincts…

Questinia : Protest songs. Isn’t nearly everything a protest song? that’s the problem methinks.

Questinia : Ad- you bring up a good point. Why is the right wing SO GOOD AT LOGOS! AND BRANDING!

javaz : I want us to form a band, Q, and write the protest songs that need to be written!

AdLib : Q – I’m concerned that it will be the case and yet you and others, even here, are becoming actively involved in issues. This could grow into something far more legitimate than the Baggers and far more powerful.

kesmarn : No way would we ever hate you, javaz!! But do you think Obama is too pragmatic or actually dishonest?

Questinia : of course obama is a corporatist. he’s a pragmatist. i coud never hate a fellow musician, javaz

javaz : Me too, Q, I am don;t believe in the FEMA camps or black helicopters, but I truly believe the corporations rule the world. Rand Paul is a corporatist, and you are all going to hate me for this, but so is Obama. Obama does not want to be, so he walks a thin line, but face it when it comes to the HIR and even this financial reform – I don’t think we can stop it.

kesmarn : Wow. That’s discouraging AdLib. So the FinReg Bill is pretty weak then? I’m hearing conflicting reports.

Questinia : we allowed it to happen. i think to return to some previous state is unreasonable. We need to know how to work on the new world. Stem their power in some way. it’s gonna take tons of money.

AdLib : Kes – That other site reported that bank stocks went up at the passage of the bill. I’m hoping it is strengthened in conference.

Questinia : Ad- we’re doomed to be dominated.

kesmarn : I was heartened by the passage of the FinReg Bill. I think the bankers are pretty irked at that one.

Questinia : Javaz-NO. I’m becoming woo woo more and more each day.

javaz : No kes, I think the corporations do want to rule the world – you have to admit that they already do – the G summits are a clue.

AdLib : javaz – You are very much hitting the nail on the head. The overriding question is, can the public break the manipulative grip of corporations or are we doomed to be dominated from them?

kesmarn : javaz, no, I don’t think you’re being a nutjob at all. The corps do call the shots far too often!

Questinia : Ad- thanks. Fortuitous. it’s the grass roots way to go.

kesmarn : Looking forward to reading that one. I’ve been mulling over an article on the Neo-Confederacy. But that’s REALLY O/T.

javaz : No, I do not think so, AdLib, as we are so blinded by our hate from both sides, and that’s what they and I have no idea who they really are, but they want us blinded so we do not see what is actually going on. And I have to ask, what do you think is really going on? We have a SCOTUS that gives corporations personhood, so does it make me sound like an Alex Jones conspiracist in thinking there might be some truth to the corporations ruling the world? Am I being a nutjob?

AdLib : Q – I mentioned before, Bill Moyer’s last episode was all about how much activism is growing locally but very under reported. I recommend to all to watch that episode here: «link»

Questinia : Kes, I really hope we win. I reaaaalllly want to write about it!

kesmarn : No, Q, actually I don’t. You’d think they would be a presence, wouldn’t you?

Questinia : Kes, seriously, what is going on with them? Do you know?

kesmarn : Not OT, Q!

Questinia : That was very OT, sorry!

Questinia : I’m currently involved in local activism. If we win, I’ll write about it. So far it’s successful. But activism success is like Hollywood success. Dicey.

kesmarn : Greenpeace is probably in a profound clinical depression, Q.

AdLib : OILigarchy.

AdLib : Consider all that has gone on in the last couple of years that screams how corrupt and corporate dominated our society is and how it is destroying our world (including our economy). Are people finally going to seriously overturn this oligarchy?

kesmarn : Lawsuit definitely in order there, javaz. Yes, pity those poor families.

javaz : Yes, and Rand Paul supports corporate rights, over human rights.

javaz : No one seems to remember that 11 people died and I sure as hell hope that the families are going to sue BP big time.

Questinia : Where’s Greenpeace?

kesmarn : javaz, I suspect BP sees those 11 as collateral damage…bastard s that they are. But — yes — the Sierra Club — now there’s a buncha Marxists for ya.

Questinia : BP is a metaphor for the world right now. Inexorable ca ca.

javaz : Come on, people, the BP spill is an accident, and act of God, and the Sierra Club should be stepping up and helping, and us taxpayers should just suck it up! According to FOX, and does it bother anyone else that the media has forgotten that 11 people died?

Questinia : Mon royaume.

AdLib : Q: How much do you want to bet?

Questinia : Adlib this is the SECOND year in a row and you probably have yet another excuse. Lame comme toujours.

kesmarn : Gosh…you’d think this country would have had enough of completely unregulated capitalism. I mean, it worked so well on Wall Street and with BP…

Questinia : We look like a totem pole. But besides THAT….

AdLib : Q – Oh please, ask!

javaz : Go ahead and ask Q

AdLib : kes – The “libertarian” concept (remember, Rand may have been named after Ayn Rand) is that business should be free from all government interference. Free to oppress, poison oceans, destroy economies. Because to Ayn Rand, unfettered power is more important than a nation, community or other human beings.

kesmarn : He’s such a completely inarticulate person, too. Rachel would ask a reasonable question and he would start out the answer: “You know, it’s interesting that…” and then tack on some rambling unrelated comment that was meaningless. He did it over and over.

javaz : I want to think yes, AdLib, but the hatred and anger in this country right now, does not give me hope. People on the right are so blinded by their hate of Obama and Democrats and Liberals, but maybe the Independents are turned off.

Questinia : I’m not even gonna ask…

AdLib : javaz – I have indeed checked out Alex Jones. This looks like a case of the sword cutting both ways. Appealing to the Fringe Right gets him nominated but should doom him in the general.

kesmarn : javaz…haven’t seen the Alex Jones “take” yet…

kesmarn : I totally don’t “get” his so-called logic. If being the owner of a private business excuses a person from anti-discriminat ion laws, what other laws is he excused from? Child labor? Health department?

javaz : I hope you are right, kes, but the teabaggers love him. Have you checked out Alex Jones? It’s another conspiracy.

AdLib : TO BEGIN: MIGHT RAND PAUL HAVE SIGNALED THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR THE GOP, THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT AND THE “LIBERTARIAN” MOVEMENT?

javaz : And by douche, I do not mean shower products, since douche means shower in French, but I mean that he is a douche in American terms. LOL

kesmarn : That 19 minutes or so of babble that he shared with Rachel was enough to tank his career for years to come.

javaz : What a corporate, racist douche

AdLib : Rand is definitely the first topic tonight!

javaz : Rand Paul needs Sarah Palin to help him with the press! LMAO

kesmarn : I see you, Patsy!

AdLib : Patsy, we can see you!

javaz : So, is tonight’s topic about the French or about Ayn Rand Paul and his winning a primary but losing an election in less than 24 hours?

AdLib : Hi Kes! And thanks! Great to be back! Cher was on vacation at the same time, to Hawaii! She’s probably trying to get back to norm now too!

PatsyT : Testing How do you like me now ???

javaz : LOL

javaz : Men love the bazongas

kesmarn : ‘Allo! I know this sounds like a joke, but a stroke of lightning hit and knocked me off line for about 2 hours. I may disappear again any minute in these storm, but for the moment….Welcom e back, AdLib! Now–where did you put Cher?

javaz : Yeah right! The French like to think of Americans as avante guard, or whatever, but they love the grand tetons, too, and my father was French so you are not fooling me! LOL

AdLib : Funny but for me the topless beach thing is so…normal…no t sexual, at least there.

javaz : Hi Kes and Questina!

javaz : Oh, and my husband really loved all the topless on the beach, and funny was that there would be men in speedos – Europeans wear Speedos, and then there’d be bare breasted women from the grandma, mother and daughter and granddaughter.

AdLib : I have great affection for so much that’s French. The art history, architecture, food, wine, not to mention the kiss they invented.

javaz : So, were you there for the movies? We never did see Cannes, but we were in the region and stayed on the Mediterranean, and I cannot remember where we were now, but my God, isn’t that area so perfect and the sea is so very blue.

PatsyT : My oldest daughters take french as their language in high school. I have a great respect for the French

AdLib : javaz – not bad! We we’re originally paying $49 for DSL when we first got it years ago, now it’s about $20.

javaz : Okay, think I am back – our dialup is only good for 4 hours at a time, but hey, we only pay 12 dollars/month on top of a 27 dollar phone bill

AdLib : Yes, can you read this?

PatsyT : Is this working

AdLib : Cya in a moment, javaz. Patsy, how are things with you?

javaz : My husband is the cheese the lover, what I loved was the pastries and the lemon tarts. I’ve got to reboot, BRB

javaz : I’ll never forget when we first arrived and bought the croissants and the butter, and my God, I thought I died and went to heaven. It reminded me a of when I was a child and when butter was butter here. I don’t get why our butter is not like the good old days.

AdLib : Butter and especially cheese! They don’t have to pasteurize the flavor out of everything so they have real flavor! The most wonderful tasting pizza in the world!

javaz : Bon soir, Patsy! AdLib has been to France! OMG, AdLib, is there butter the very best?

AdLib : Nice to “see” both of you!

AdLib : Thanks Patsy!

AdLib : I excel at eating croissants!

PatsyT : Welcome home!

javaz : Good, am hanging in there and thank you for asking, and you must post photographs and tell us about your vacance! S’il vous plait – zee hee, is the French laugh, and I am not any good at writing French, but much better at parle-ing! LOL, ou Zee Hee

AdLib : How have you been?

javaz : We lived in Saint Cloude, which is a sister city to St.Cloud, Minnesota, and oh, how I miss it. You went to Cannes? Mais, NON! Tres jealouse!

AdLib : Dans Cannes.

javaz : Did you visit the Louvre and walk along the Rue de Rivoli?

AdLib : Merci!

javaz : C’est bon

javaz : Magnifique!

AdLib : France, mais certainment.

javaz : it’d be bonsoir now, mon ami

javaz : let me try that again – did you go to France or Montreal?

AdLib : Bonjour!

AdLib : Yes! Hi javaz!

javaz : Bon soir! Did you for to France or Montreal? Or were you faking us out with your parlez-vous Francais?

javaz : Wherever you are

javaz : Bienvenue retour, AdLib!

javaz : Is it Vox Populi night?