Displaying 0 To 0 Of 0 Comments Sally – have to answer “above”. Yes the worship outside, the reverence for all life, the oneness with everything is found now as part of progressive and even much of mainline Protestantism. I’m a sociologist and historian by education, and one thing I learned is that almost ALWAYS the conquered do more to convert the conquerer than vice versa. British missionaries and imperialists used to sneer at their own who “went native”, but in fact the culture of the oppressed tends to seep into the pores of the oppressor. Ours was a more conspicuously open journey. Missionaries saw the damage, saw the pain, saw the cultural imperialism, and began raising these issues back pre-WW II. You can get a bit of it from “Jewel in the Crown” while, although it does not deal with religion, does lead the people living in India to break and crumble over their own failed impositions of authority. So it was with mission folks. They caused harm to people they came to love and admire. So by the post-war period, that goal of conversion was pretty much given up. Service became the focus, and acceptance and reverence for those whom they served was required by mission services as a prerequisite for being placed overseas. Down with cultural and religious imperialism and up with humility and a desire to help people on their own terms. All in all a MUCH better way to go. » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:51 pm No – just kidding about the Lent part, but NOT about giving it up. Over the years, Protestants came to realize what horrific cultural genocide they had wrought. Yes, we still have the legacy in such churches as the Korean Presbyterians, but seeking converstion largely ended decades ago. I suppose there are the few individuals left, but conversion of “the heathen” to Christianity is NOT the practice of any denominational mission with which I’m familiar. Today’s missionaries come FROM their faith principles to do whatever they can in the way of social justice, but they do NOT seek conversion and approach people with respect for their beliefs. It is, in fact, one reason the Protestant denominations are not growing much if at all. Virtually every mission society within the Protestant fields seeks to help others economically, politically, medically, but not seek their converstion at ALL. It’s made our mission people a LOT more welcome. Now it’s the Pentecostals who do what we once did, and they are almost as brutal as the Crusaders. Franklin Graham refuses to provide food and water or other essentials or goodies to anyone unless they sign a pledge of conversion. And Franklin’s Folks follow up to make sure they DO it. We model Albert Schweitzer, not Franklin Graham – help however one can, and leave indigenous people to their own beliefs. And no, we do not think anyone who is different from us is going to hell. Largely because, among other things, we don’t believe in hell. MUCH easier that way. » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:39 pm LOL!!!! I will warn you that when I clicked on this story about the Mormons, even though it was Reuters, I could NOT get OUT of the damned story!!! Apparently once the Mormons get hold of you, you stay GOT. They wear Temple Garments so the devil cannot catch them by the seat of their underwear. I felt as if I needed an “anti-Temple” garment to get OUT of that story and back here! I had to go completely off line and come back in. Now THAT’s serious “gotcha!” » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:31 pm kes – that is my understanding, yes. Same with us Protestants. » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:23 pm Joseph Smith is whirling in his grave, AdLib. The mere thought has made his “afterdeath” self dizzy with horror! Nice job! » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:22 pm Sally – Protestants, those folks who once were the missionaries and now apologize PROFUSELY for what they did, have, over the past centruy begun to realize you all were closer to the truth. The reason rational Western people tried to convert you all is precisely that. It’s so scary to see that people without institutions, books, rules, trapping, garments of faith are closer to paradise and truth, closer to the true meaning of what Christianity is SUPPOSED to be about, than ANY of us. Missionaries tried to convert not because indigenous spirituality is wrong – but because it’s correct. What in the WORLD would we do with all our books, cathedrals, art if it turned out you were right all along? How can we be less spiritual than you? How can you be closer to The Great One than we ever dreamed? We finally, in great remorse, figured out yes, we screwed up. And we’re sorry. So we are looking and listening and learning from you. And many, many ministers are incorporating Native People’s spirituality into Christian church worship. Prayers, thoughts, ideas. It makes it so meaningful! So guess what – you converted US! Now only the religious conservatives are so arrogant as to assume they have all the answers. We know – we don’t even have the questions. Thanks to all indigenous spiritual believers who opened our eyes, hearts, minds. » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:20 pm Ah, cough, No. Protestants do not teach that anyone is going to hell. We gave that up for Lent one year, and it just kind of stuck. Now mind you, when dealing with legislators, that is a big loss, IMHO. But we do not promise heaven and don’t threaten hell, and we don’t teach it to our kids, and we never think we’re “in the know” about what God thinks because we’re sort of not, y’know, in the know about, well, God. Much less hell. We appreciate it if you don’t lump us with those who think they found the truth. We are still looking. » Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 9:11 pm Or anywhere else, Sally! The more he talks, the larger is the foot he shoves in his mouth. Keep talking, Mitt. It just gets better and better – for President Obama. » Posted By choicelady On February 14, 2012 @ 9:00 pm I thought he’d reject Froot Loops. Y’know… » Posted By choicelady On February 14, 2012 @ 7:00 pm Cute! I’m SO impressed you can get it to do that! Hehehehe! » Posted By choicelady On February 14, 2012 @ 6:54 pm Oh God NO! It’s horrible and if it WAS the model for ObamaCare (I say that proudly) it was as the poster child for what NOT to do. On second thought yeah – he SHOULD run on it. It just positively sucks. CLAIM IT, MITT! » Posted By choicelady On February 14, 2012 @ 6:53 pm WOW!!!! Amazing! GREAT news! » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 12:27 pm Most of the AA and all of the ACA/Al-Anon groups here NEVER use “god talk” except for any given individual who thinks God is her or his personal vision. Obviously yo need to come out to CA! I do think it varies by region. I’ve never been in open AA meetings save in the West. I don’t tend to go since I don’t need it, but some meetings I would think might vary even within your area. It is the fellowship in Al-Anon and ACA that matters. I’d hope that was true of AA as well. Too bad if it doesn’t! » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 10:55 am Oh of course, Khirad! You were not really there. We love you! » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 10:50 am Sigh… » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 7:59 am Within the obvious dismissal of women lies the dismissal of your moral values as well. There is a pernicious meme here that ONLY if you disdain contraception and accept unplanned and unwanted pregnancies do you have moral values. Even within marriage, you are a slut if you want to plan your family numbers. This is another clear indication that the GOP is headed toward a society of embedded inequality. It now reaches to the smallest and most intimate decisions of family live. You have no rights if you do not agree with them. Only religious conservatives have morality and therefore rights. Liberal or even moderate people of faith and non-believers are dumped into the bucket of non-morality. I was asked by a church group yesterday about this decision from the White House and HHS. I explained it pertained to ONLY those institutions that were serving a broad public, hired widely, and took tax money to achieve their goals that put them under the equal protection atuhority of the Constitution. This group of older, more conservative Presbyterians totally accepted this delineation as reasonable. Are they – the backbone of our society – IMMORAL? And so what if you’re an agnostic or atheist? Morality is a component in everyone’s pantheon of decision making. Believing it is wrong to have more children than you can afford, doubting the efficacy of “natural family planning”, seeing sex as a joyous part of marriage and relationships and not just for parenthood, and determining that one must not over-populate the world are all moral values of the highest order. The constant drumbeat against those whose morals rest on feminism – you know, that radical notion women are equal – on environmental stewardship, on faith values that differ from the conservative, on people who just plain care about the balance of their lives is disgusting. This is a democracy, NOT a theocracy. If any religious group cannot deal with this decision there is a very easy answer – narrow your actions to serve only those of your faith, hire only those of your faith, and in the process allow that to happen by not taking one penny of tax money. Then you are a religious organization, and you can be exempt. Go on – stand up for your rights, religious conservatives! Just don’t do it with our tax dollars. Women pay those you know… » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 6:55 am Wow – that is SO exciting if it works in people, too! Think of the families and lives it would help! Thank you, AdLib. We will keep watching! » Posted By choicelady On February 13, 2012 @ 6:37 am foodchain – can’t reply below, so I will above. I’d not trade but one or two experiences. They made me what I am today – yes, here, now, fully engaged! I have found over the years that the people most likely to whine about small things are those to whom nothing REALLY bad has ever happened. Some of the strongest and most grounded and loving people have had great sorrow and grew from it. (And some really good people were also very fortunate – they grew up knowing how to love – lucky them!) But we cultivate victimhood too often, and the things of which we are “victims” are the standard push-pull of ordinary life! It’s why I love most of the people in ACA – they have made it their work to pull themselves out of misery, find ways of being strong, and find ways of giving to others without self exploitation or guilt when they cannot give. They say (never sure who “they” are) that the strongest tree are the ones that have been time-tested by the winds. I think that affirmative survivors of life’s hardest moments are precisely like those trees. » Posted By choicelady On February 12, 2012 @ 8:04 pm Oh foodchain – that is marvelous! Yes! I discovered only late in life that my weird mother who always seemed to hate me probably did try to kill me. Oh, not directly – she let me be in danger, may have engaged in a little “Munschausen Sydrome by Proxy” – and the revelation, just like yours, Kalima, came very abruptly while talking to my ACA sponsor. She never said a word, but the LOOK on her face as I was just saying what my mother had done shook be to my foundations. It had NEVER occurred to me that my fear of my mother since I was a little girl might have REAL CAUSE. I remember leaving the restaurant feeling almost drunk. I could not stand evenly and was shaking. It was not emotional – I wasn’t crying – it was pure shock. It took months to work through it. Probably still am. The best part of this realization? Knowing I’m not crazy – she really DID try to harm me. Not making it up.! Kalima – talking this through with my sponsor is indeed exactly as you said: problems shared are problems halved. food and Kalima – I’m SO sorry you’ve had these experiences, too! But the fact that we can discuss them now means we are well on our way to “living happily ever after.” It’s very liberating to have found the truth, however ugly, so we can move beyond it. Whatever happened to Ms. Houston – she never could. I think celebrities sometimes are in the worst bind since the deeply private is so dangerous – it can easily wind up in tabloids, so they avoid therapy and even friends. How terribly sad for her if that is what happened. She might have only just needed someone to listen, to care, to share. » Posted By choicelady On February 12, 2012 @ 6:45 pm I wonder what lay behind her incredible lack of self respect? Children who have been deeply harmed by life IN childhood never heal perfectly, but they do heal. The harm is like a hole in your middle – it’s always there. Some can find ways to “reroute” the synapses. Some never can. Therapy may or may not work, but so can free help – Adult Children of Alcoholics or Al-Anon neither of which requires actual alcohol problems in your past. Dysfunction of any sort is your only “ticket” in. As for that pesky “higher power”? It can be your group. No need to believe in a supreme being even though it’s expressed that way. I do like the motto: It’s too late to have a happy childhood. It’s never too late to live happily ever after. KT – I’m glad you found your way. I’m even more glad you found your daughter. You’re fulfilling “happily ever after” in very positive ways. The past matters a LOT, but it does not have to define us. We may carry great sadness always, but we can also find great joy and peace of mind. The two can live together in us. But not always. And sometimes the past or the black hole simply overwhelms us. I feel sad for Ms. Houston – whatever her demons, they apparently won. I’m so sorry that happened to her. She will always live in beauty for the rest of us. It’s so sad she could not live in joy and contentment for herself. » Posted By choicelady On February 12, 2012 @ 10:46 am And all those photos and posters come from the U.S. They are produced in Wisconsin (sorry cheeseheads) and shipped everywhere. We happened to know from YEARS of research that these photos were taken from a stolen shipment of MISCARRIED fetal parts as well as, yes, some abortions, but mostly miscarriages. Some, like the one on the left, are photoshopped – how COULD you see that in the womb? So next time they parade around, presuming they’re that ignorant, you will be able to tell others where these things come from. The final drumbeat is to eradicate the word “abortion” from the English language. It’s really gonna play hob with NASA and other military folks. They use it every day. But purity and keeping their tender ears from the Big Nasty Word is the next step. Sorry, Caru – sure looks as if our nutso extremism in ALL its glory has made its way to you. » Posted By choicelady On February 8, 2012 @ 7:09 pm Labor. Another disposable commodity good only for enriching the corporate till. » Posted By choicelady On February 7, 2012 @ 10:58 am R Money. Yup. That’s what matters to Mitt. UR money? Not so much. » Posted By choicelady On February 7, 2012 @ 10:56 am They are too old for the “it never goes away” world of the internet. They still play with invisible ink, and their best electronic gadget is a paper shredder. Woe betide the pol who thinks all those devices still hide the truth! We SEEEEEE you! » Posted By choicelady On February 7, 2012 @ 10:54 am Oh that’s priceless! What a hoot. Thank you! » Posted By choicelady On February 5, 2012 @ 8:53 pm Oh the rumors we could spread…. » Posted By choicelady On February 5, 2012 @ 8:50 pm I have a friend who works all over Eastern Europe helping women develop a claim for and ways to act on their rights. Domestic violence is a HUGE problem that the Russian courts refer to as “kitchen cases” since that is almost inevitably where the violence occurs. Despite the longing among almost all women for some kind of equity and safety in their lives, THE largest problem is the legacy of absolute distrust Russians have for one another. Lying, deception, evasiveness – even in groups that have come together for a common purpose – are so embedded that the work toward what the say they have in common is constantly undermined. The politics of sneakiness and self interest are equally bizarre in the republics. In Kyrgyzstan a young couple wanted to start a small printing business and were able to obtain some US aid designed for the new republics to do just that. But even with the money in hand, they kept encountering obstacles in every quarter that made no sense. What lay behind it was that the bank that handled the finance transfer from the US was political rivals with the bureaucrats that gave the permits. But, since the bureaucrats could not publicly admit that was the source of the delay, they hit on the perfectly acceptable reason. “You’re Jewish!” THAT was OK. (The couple did finally open and did very well. All parties and factions need printing!) While it is deeply worrisome for Russia to be so mired in a culture of massive distrust, it seems we have embarked on that same course. There is no “Greatest Generation” that has struggled and worked together for a common purpose. What might have brought us together – the Great Recession – is doing quite the opposite in many quarters. And there is powerful distrust of one another rampant in our midst. When Kruschev pounded his shoe and said, “We will bury you” – who knew it might have been by our adopting the Russian factionalism and fear of others? We don’t need no stinking A-bomb. We’re doing just fine sinking ourselves without it. » Posted By choicelady On February 5, 2012 @ 8:48 pm Tonight on the Ed show, it may be that they have not reversed at all. They will allow current funding AND the right of PPFA to apply next years. They also apparently defunded Johns Hopkins, a MAJOR cancer research center – because an entirely separate unit does stem cell research. SGK took back $12 MILLION IN RESEARCH FUNDS. How’s THAT for dedication to eradicating breast cancer? When foundations go rogue and become political, they need to get their “license” jerked. There are standards that permit them to operate – and being political is absolutely forbidden. SGK – you better focus on your mission or we’ll be over you like you cannot believe. Get a grip. Is it breast cancer or is it politics? Can’t be both. » Posted By choicelady On February 3, 2012 @ 6:14 pm I also think they are in for a mighty surprise in CA. The Fair Political Practices Commission already said that ANY entity campaigning in CA has to reveal its top two donors. SurPRISE, Americans Elect – that means YOU. You are not immune. Hah! » Posted By choicelady On February 3, 2012 @ 5:01 pm foodchain – a Trifecta! » Posted By choicelady On February 3, 2012 @ 4:57 pmComments Posted By choicelady
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