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Time Out for O/T – Vol. 18

He’s not Catholic at all. Neither is Newt. They are Dominionists who have infiltrated the Church to “steeplejack” it for the Dominionist cause.

The man is disgusting. He’s the one, remember, who said McCain “knows nothing about torture.” That is the depth of his thinking process. Abysmal, dangerous fool.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:53 pm

Yes. His and his alone. He already said we Protestants are in disarray and therefore not Christians.

Thou sayest, Little Ricky.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:51 pm

My fave Newt trivia fact: this outspoken opponent of government spending obtained $36,000 for a Coast Guard station in his district. His district is landlocked.

H/T to Michael Moore for that one. He actually rendered Newt speechless when Moore pointed that out some years ago on Moore’s TV show.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:48 pm

Yup, funk. That’d be it. Did not sit well with me when we found out yesterday that the Southern Baptist Convention, while keeping the formal name, now will refer to themselves as “The Great Commission Baptists.” They are no longer evangelicals. They are purely and officially Dominionists.

Oy.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:45 pm

Words? Words??? They don’t need no stinking WORDS. Jezuz is their personal SAVIOR, stupid! (Their words, not mine – I think you’re smart as a whip, KT!)

They also seek spiritual dominion. Over all of us, you and me, stone age people – everyone. It’s the March of the Theocrats. Problem is – because they’ve excised all the liberal junk in the Bible including most of the Red Letter words – they are merely Old Testamentarians with Jesus as their “get our of jail free card” upon death. They have gone so far – and I am NOT making this up – as to say there is a “code” in the Bible proving as the End Times come, all that Beatitudes stuff is cancelled. Hence the new photos – Jesus with an AK-47. None of that wimpy ‘love your neighbors’ crap.

The new Crusades. They even CALL it that. Only they intend to convert other Christians. Or, I should say Christians period, to their Dominionist views. That or die. They’ve already proven they will kill those whom they do not like.

When Obama wins a second term – batten the hatches and look out because we will see an uptick in violence that will make OK City look like child’s play. Thank GOD Homeland Security is finally going back and looking at the RW extremists – they had actually dismantled the task force under threat from, well, RW extremists. That will be the busiest unit in all of law enforcement.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, will be her March 5 to do a book signing and presentation on his fight TO keep separation of church and state. My organization supports him, so I’m doing arrangements. Keep your fingers crossed – he and now I get death threats and harassment from these Looovely “Christians” who are just like Saintorum. Their way or the highway to hell. No intermediate stops. They are the heirs to “Kill a Commie for Christ” of 50 years ago, and they are spreading like kudzu. We have to have armed guards for Mikey – and he’s speaking at an Episcopal Cathedral, fer cryin’ out loud! Worse – the Dean of the Cathedral never batted an eye when I said we’d have to have them. How’s THAT for adapting to this Brave New World?????

Jesus wept.

» Posted By choicelady On February 26, 2012 @ 1:35 pm

Hi KT – that was a rhetorical flourish “He’s Catholic you say!” not you personally!

Yes – he SAYS he’s Catholic. He’s not. That’s the covert agreement he has with the Dominionists. The secret handshakes, code words, dog whistles, eye winks have all be made. He’s one of them. “Them” as in – not of this earth.

You may well be right. I’m not willing to turn my back on him or them, not with this huge transformation in the Southern Baptist Conference. This is a BIG change for them, and it’s scary as hell they’re marching to this new drummer – for whom Santorum is the piper.

Shudder.

I WANT you to be correct! I WANT this all to go away. Just not sure it’s over yet.

» Posted By choicelady On February 25, 2012 @ 1:44 pm

I think it’s premature to say he’s done. He will flourish in the South and probably other states with caucuses and rabid, slavering Dominionist power. Did not help that we learned today that the ENTIRE Southern Baptist Convention has been hijacked by Dominionists. They intend to keep their formal name but go by “The Great Commission Baptists”. That is the signal – they are Dominionists. That’s a huge number of people enlisted in Santorum’s cause.

But he’s Catholic, you say. No – he’s Ultramontagne Catholic, and that’s a huge difference. He homeschools his kids – signal – and he beats all the same drums the Dominionists do that the Church does not. No social justice, no concern for the poor, no effort to deal with immigration in a humane way. ONLY the sexual issues dovetail with the Church. He probably should be excommunicated, but the Church is too myopic to see the danger to them from him. They are being “steeplejacked” by the Dominionists in their midst, and they will not or cannot see that.

This is a very scary man. He’s down in Michigan. He is NOT out. I keep hoping he will be, but he’s not out yet.

» Posted By choicelady On February 25, 2012 @ 12:33 pm

Santorum is the tip of the iceberg. He’s not Roman Catholic but “ultramontagne” Catholic – he’s bought into the New Apostolic Reformation End Times beliefs. He believes in an embedded inequality with an Elect and the rest of us who must bow in subservience.

Just learned that the Souther Baptist Convention will keep their name but refer to themselves – all of themselves – as the Great Commission Baptists. The Great Commission is preparing for End Times now – the most extremist position one can hold. That is truly scary.

You listen to all they say, and you can see this pursuit of The Elect as dominant and the rest of us as subservient. Capitalists are The Elect – even Romney buys it – and must be unfettered in all ways. Watch the Supreme Court rule in ways that reinforce this embedded inequality.

This is the cold civil war. If the SBC has bought in, when Obama gets re-elected, the civil war may heat up. I fear a wave of violence like we’ve not seen since 1995 and OK City only possibly much, much worse.

These people don’t play by democratic rules but by their belief in armed insurrection to bring about the Second Coming. They won’t say “no” to fulfilling their Commission.

Can democracy survive? We will be put to the test.

» Posted By choicelady On February 25, 2012 @ 10:19 am

I think it wasn’t much more prevalent than now, but it definitely impacted immigrant communities and let the sniffy WASPs find a way to “perfect” them. All during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, upper class people worked long and hard to teach immigrants WASP behavior standards. In its way it was kindly meant, but it was snobby, too, because alcohol abuse was NEVER linked to poverty and desperation that came from lousy work and slave wages. Those reforms were not regarded well by upper income women – it was their husbands who paid the lousy wages. What they sought was to alleviate the symptoms without tackling the causes. ‘Twas ever thus until the New Deal.

People with jobs that contained hope for a better life more often than not stopped abusing alcohol. Simple fact of life – we don’t self medicate nearly so much if we have something to work for instead of just working for bare subsistence. Alcoholism IS a disease, but much of the abuse in those days was self medicating rather than addiction when the state of one’s life was abysmal filled with nothing but despair.

The WASPs wanted individual reform without societal repair. Did not work.

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 8:53 pm

Yeah – I’ve always admired Newt for sticking to the high road…

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 8:44 pm

Oh wow, KT – these are hilarious! I have to admit my line is more public policy than Biblical exegesis, but these are beyond funny!

The Luke quotation on hating one’s family marks a very important part of Jesus’ life. When he began, he was, well, a snot. He was carrying the arrogance of his peers, the supercilious nasties of his day. What I like is the maturation, the growth, the change that comes over time as he sees a different way of being, of caring about the world and the people in it.

As a very funny shortcut to the “truth” of the Bible, I’d strongly recommend “Lamb” by Christopher Moore. For anyone NOT offended by a bawdy and irreverant story about Jesus, this is actually very eye opening. It was supposedly written by Jesus’ boyhood friend, Biff. It details the missing years of Jesus’ life and how he grew and came to his views of a world without hate, and anger and revenge. (There was a real prophet – he was crucified, and it was for this message.)

“Lamb” is both utterly irreverant and totally magical. It’s incredibly funny but also deeply moving. And it lifts up some ideas that just might have been true. You never know. The early Jesus is not particularly likeable. The later Jesus changed the world.

It also answers a really bad joke in the end. You have to read it. I won’t reveal it.

Christopher Moore told me some (very liberal) seminaries are using “Lamb” in their classes. I can understand why. It’s terrific – even as it’s ribald, bawdy, rude, and totally irreverant. Eg. Biff says he is the one who told Jesus NOT to include “blessed are the dumbfucks” as part of the Sermon on the Mount. It also defines what is perfect love. It’s well worth the read.

If you’re not a fundie, of course.

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 5:14 pm

Gin was called “Mother’s ruin” in England. I would have to agree that it was “Mother’s nightmare” in the bathtub!

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 4:59 pm

Sally – replying above, not below:

Thank you! Some of us know what happened, and some of us are trying to assure in NEVER happens again!

I can’t pick my ancestors. I CAN help assure the future. Workin’ on it! Thank you, good friend!

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 4:57 pm

Yeah – it was part of WASP-ish Nanny state intervention and was to curtail the (cough) lower orders. Trying to regulate the poor even then, WASP ladies thought you could do it more easily if temptation was out of the way. I think it never occurred to them that people would create “temptation” in the bathtub and home stills.

Legislating morality is what the RW desires – just so it’s not cutting into their right to discriminate, hate, control women, etc. Universal rights have been declared to be “legislating morality” while controlling individual choices about sex and reproduction are seen as universal standards. How they keep getting this wrong is beyond me.

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 3:18 pm

LOL!!! Since my forebears are reputed to have BEEN in that first Thanksgiving, I’d have to say, generations later, your Mother was right.

I’m he-e-e-e-e-r.

Trying to keep the PROMISE of that first meal and make amends for all those lousy ones in between.

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 3:11 pm

Yeah, we Protestants pushed Prohibition. Everyone makes mistakes…

» Posted By choicelady On February 23, 2012 @ 2:42 pm

Cooperation! COOPERATION???? That’s freaking commie!!!! Proof that only Santorum and Newtie are qualified to be prez.

» Posted By choicelady On February 21, 2012 @ 5:50 pm

As if Newt would lower himself to drive a pick up! Get REAL, Newtie! You’re no good ol’ boy! You’re an effete pseudo intellectual, which, IMHO, is worse than being a REAL one.

Now the hairy question is – can you put a gun rack in the back of a BMW.Mercedes Benz, or whatever the hell it is YOU drive (that undoubtedly is NOT American made)?

Shove it, Newt – the gun rack issue on Volts is resolved. Now – what is the basic American equivalent of your credit line at Tiffany’s, hmmmmm? Layaway at K-Mart?

As if.

» Posted By choicelady On February 21, 2012 @ 5:48 pm

Replying above, sigh. Well, if I can find my tartan or something, I will send it to you. I can’t go into that church here, so you may keep my family history alive!

Thanks, Khirad!

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 3:43 pm

LOL!!! I am REALLY offended by the RW “Christian” music that makes Jesus into a commodity for “my personal salvation”.

Duh. No.

Only Kirkin o’ the Tartan here is at one of the breakaway Presbyterian churches. It’s so homophobic I refuse to set foot in the place. I haven’t been in decades, but, as a Gordon, I feel I should. Just not there.

I do love the Episcopal Church music but here in Sacramento the Cathedral is too new for a really good ambiance. Like the old places better. Good pipe organs that can be FELT as much as heard in low register – cannot be beat. Your earth ought to tremble now and then, just for the sheer majesty of it!

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:41 pm

Same with Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle” in 1906. Nothing had changed even across the ocean.

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:21 pm

Oh perfect for you, too! Some of those simple hymns are the most enduring because they were accessible. I love the grand Episcopal/Anglican men’s and boys’ choirs, but it’s tricky stuff not so available for humming!

I’m glad you have that memory. I can just see her from your description of her. Thank you!

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

What a grand story! That is a perfect memory, and thank you for sharing it! It IS a lovely song! How wonderful to know your grandmother did that for and with you. Lovely!

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

Well, well – YEAH. Lordy – you and AdLib, thwarting God’s plans. Or what these idiots conveniently interpret as God’s plans.

They live in a dream world.

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

You have a problem with that? Isn’t that the Amur-i-can way?

It occurs to me Santorum is too young to long for Beaver Cleaver land.

One really should NOT script one’s public policy on re-runs of a show that wasn’t all that good to begin with.

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 1:04 pm

Determining we are very closely allied with both Abrahamic faiths also opened eyes.

There is still a lot of “convert the heathen” work going on, but it’s NOT from the mainline Protestants. Irionically, the Dominionists seek conversion of CATHOLICS in Latin America and elsewhere – now that’s chootzpah, as Michelle would say!

The fracturing of the Presbyterian church is sad but predictable – a couple here are hiving off with a non-Presbyterian USA sect. (I’m not prejudiced or anything…) as the Episcopal church has had some congregations and one diocese join the Argentinian Anglicans with whom they have SOOOO much in common.

This is world historical in scope, and someday we will label the period as we did the Reformation and Great Schism. Just hope no one gets burned at the stake or put on the rack. Though that IS happening in Third World nations, and it’s despicable. Remember Sarah Palin’s “witch hunter” ally. People were being hunted down as witches. Ghastly.

It’s interesting, but it IS also scary. Theocratic impulses are never good for democracy.

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 12:15 pm

Well, KT – we don’t bell lepers anymore either.

Mainline and progressive Protestants do not much believe in Hell as an afterlife place of eternal damnation. Or Heaven as the opposite either. It’s more about states of grace on earth, being in sync with peace and justice for everyone, aware of life’s blessings (even if nature provides, but one can still give thanks)and not the result of getting enough tick marks in the big book.

Protestants were literalists, who wasn’t? We’ve come a long way in terms of spiritual growth to get to deeper meanings about it all. I know many who feel a deep personal connection to God – whom they do NOT perceive as an old man with a beard but a power of good. Even those who do anthropomorphize tend to think of God as a friend, a loving presence, and not to worry overmuch about where they are ending up. Kes said it of Catholics – if you have done the best you can, no problems.

I always loved atheist Michael Harrington’s words about “what will happen” when he died from his leukemia. He said he’d always tried to live so that if he was wrong, he still had no worries.

Fear of judgment has given way to hopeful living in the here and now. The Bible is generally seen as a guide, a metaphor, a history, a book of teachings, not as literal truth.

Here is a wonderful song about it all that reflects our willingness to “Let the Mystery Be.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awmgpZFXHfk

Enjoy.

» Posted By choicelady On February 16, 2012 @ 11:37 am

AdLib – have to answer above, again.

One of the icky things about Protestants is that too many churches have been “steeplejacked” by the RW. I should have made clear that there are internal divisions, even huge fights, within denominations. Here in Sacramento and across the country, the Presbyterians are splitting as did the Episcopalians. It’s all over LGBT rights. The Evangelical Lutherans will do the same next. Once the denomination admits LGBT people as absolute equals, finds the true meaning of “ALL” in “all God’s children”, there are great divisions. Nationally there are and have been huge rifts – the Methodists are the most obvious since Southern Methodists are arch conservatives. But the denomination – our ally – is solidly progressive and NON evangelical.

I can’t keep up. I just know that our members are pretty mainline, but they are not into conversion.

The “steeplejacking” comes from the New Apostolic Reformation – the End Times Dominionists – who join a church, created unholy chaos, and get the church to leave the denomination and become more conservative. It even happened to us, my organization, when our Board was infiltrated by two RW boneheads posing initially as “progressive”. It was VERY ugly. We survived. Some congregations don’t, and they can remain Methodist or Presbyterian or whatever but become in fact a NAR ally. And there are NARisites in high places. So yes, some Protestant districts or synods or whatever ARE conservative. But the central denominations are not, and our member congregations are fully with the central more progressive core tenets of the evolving faith. And saving people for Jesus is NOT part of that.

» Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 10:18 pm

Cher – for mainline and progressive Protestants, “hell” is a state of mind. One can live in hell on earth if one is not at peace with self, with others, with doing the right thing by the world and all who live in it.

Hell as a place in the afterlife? No. Heaven either. The drive and goal for living is to find, inside oneself, a state of grace through love. That is heaven, but it’s not a place you go after death; it’s a condition of living.

Evangelicals, Pentecostals, fundamentalists – they see the God, the Devil, Hell, and Heaven all as real. Heaven and hell are REAL places where you “go” after death.

We don’t believe that. It’s pretty clear we once DID – you have only to read Puritan sermons to see that – but Protestants adopted science and rationality and are pretty pragmatic anyway, so these ideas morphed into ways of describing alienation or cohesion with others. States of being, nothing supernatural or otherworldly about them.

God is consciousness, being one with the universe, and yes, it’s very much in tune with Buddhism and indigenous faith, and yes that is why we are universalists. We hang onto our denominations and churches more for familiarity and community than doctrine. I move in and out of different churches a lot – sometimes three or four in a week, and danged if I can really see the difference among them. They all speak of uplift and grace and commitment of self to the common good. They do have different hymns, but that’s about it. I think like the folks in UCC and love the music of the Episcopalians, like the energies of United Methodist Women, and enjoy the weirdly evangelical fervor of the pro-GLBT Disciples of Christ. And I’m comfortable even in AME churches. They all commit to social justice and living the best and most coherent lives they can in alliance with others, never mind who or what they believe so long as justice is their goal, too.

It’s a new world. I love it!

» Posted By choicelady On February 15, 2012 @ 10:06 pm