Displaying 0 To 0 Of 0 Comments Right now, the police are tearing up Zuccoti Park. No reporters even with credentials allowed, and they closed subway stops nearby. http://www.livestream.com/occupynyc JoshuaHol Joshua Holland JoshuaHol Joshua Holland » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 11:11 pm Yes, bito–I meant everyone BUT you! (Oh, and it came to me: Ron Christie.) » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 7:50 pm Kalima, I could have gotten a smaller award, but decided to spring for the $29.99 size–you DO deserve the big one! Good luck at the doc’s and I’ll see ya later, I hope. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 6:15 pm Kalima, you win the Chernynkaya Annual Award for the Best Comment Reply to bito’s posting! But seriously, you brought up a couple of things that are so important. First, all one has to go is listen to those livestreams of the protesters to realize that they are all that you say–impressive as hell! And second, I love what you said about supporting them, as community. Every day I see requests from my Twitter feed from Occupy L.A. and they need water, and blankets and food. They have it very well organized and I just wish I was in a position to support them more. Yesterday we went downtown and brought a case of water–not much but gratefully accepted. Your mentioning that is so smart– they don’t need advice, they need our help to just BE. As for the worry about media coverage, I posted something on the Occupy thread about that, and so far it is mostly an unfounded worry There IS a lot of coverage, even if not always astute. But your point is well-taken: They won’t be ignored and fuck the stupid MSM. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 4:30 pm Such brilliant acting. I loved that movie, but it was hard to watch. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 2:26 pm When I read your reply, Sally, I remembered his name–Ron Christie. Oh I can’t STAND that twerp!! I just wanna bitch slap him. EDIT: Just like this! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 2:15 pm Oh! I had the same thoughts about the Civil Rights Movement, but failed to articulate that! As you point out, it evolved for over ten years. And I know from the many accounts of those involved–as both leaders and followers and everyone in between– that they were not monolithic. There were different groups AT DIFFERENT TIMES with different strategies aimed at public education, legislative lobbying, and lawsuits. Later, they got involved in more direct action—primarily boycotts, sit-ins, Freedom Rides, marches and similar tactics that relied on mass mobilization, nonviolent resistance and civil disobedience. They used their Churches and other local community centers for grassroots organizations to mobilize. Out of these groups emerged the eventual leaders–but that took YEARS. And along the way, there were always African Americans like Herman Cain and Clarence Thomas and that cross-eyed Repub guy on Hardball, who had they been there would have advised a totally different path and could have said legitimately that they were just as entitled to offer their advice as any other African American. Same goes for the more militant black people. They each could have stated, in effect, “We’re the 99% too, so listen to MEEEEE!” But you know what? At the beginning was the inarticulate but universal outcry for equality–without any specific demands. It is legitimate to simply state the things are unjust and that we won’t stand for it any longer. From that simple protest, other actions inevitably flow–whether its Civil Rights, or worker rights, or economic justice. Just. Justice. I also am sure that to all those African Americans, their rights and lives were even more a matter of urgency than we feel now for our rights and economic equality–Their very lives were at stake. But I personally want to clarify something, and I apologize in advance because it will be hard to explain. Having said what I said above does NOT mean I don’t think we all have a stake in what the OWS protesters are doing, nor do I mean that we should all just shut up and leave it to them. On the contrary. What I object to is an attitude more than any particular ideas about how they should do things. The attitude that assumes any one of us has a monopoly on wisdom, or that just because we were involved in other protests–or even OWS–that they must listen to us. How about we listen to them for a change? It is certainly well-meaning, but I sometimes just wish we could hear ourselves: we can sound like old gasbags if we aren’t careful. And I am embarrassed for my generation when we do that. It just makes me cringe when I read advice for the protesters from many sources. (I feel the same way whenever I hear Tom Brokaw, BTW.) But I really want to emphasize that it’s not an either/or thing; it’s not that we either go along with the program or stay un-involved. The Occupiers have a very good method for hearing everyone’s views. If we want to be heard, all we have to do is go to the local encampment for the General Assembly. You will be heard and your ideas will be voted upon. But they may not be accepted–that’s democracy. (If you want to read an actual GA assembly in action, I suggest you follow @joshuahol on Twitter. He live Tweeted the Oakland GA last night and it was contentious.) Bito, you got me going there! Touched a nerve, and I didn’t mean to sound so strident. In the end, that’s just one person’s opinion anyway. I could be wrong. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 1:57 pm I got to thinking about the media coverage of the Occupy movement–that is, is it waning? It’s certainly not waning in the big media outlets here in Los Angeles and San Francisco, and whenever there are big confrontations with the police–e.g., Oakland and yesterday, Portland, OR. From a cursory view of ALL newspapers across the country, I see stories about OWS in all the large newspapers.You can see the front pages of all newspapers at the Newseum site: If you don’t see an OWS story on the front page, go to the newspaper’s website to see the full content. Of course, there are zillions of tiny, local papers which mainly report on hyper-local stuff, but from what I’ve seen, every major city has an OWS report. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 9:44 am Khirad, I watched that livestream for about an hour last night. Riveting! And those protesters have their shit together from what I saw! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 10:14 am Sally, I agree with your comments. Well said. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 10:10 am Em, I know you would be there if you could. I too am very energized by the movement and desperately want it to succeed and bring concrete change. Most of all, I worry that what they are doing won’t translate into votes. All I can do to make myself heard about that is to join OWS-L.A. and become part of the protest. Even then, they may not listen but that’s how it goes. But I was really speaking to Murph and how I perceive his frustration. It sure sounded to me as if he had given his opinions to them and wasn’t listened to. (“herding cats”) So my question to you is, what if they don’t take your advice? As you rightly say, you can only offer them what you have. They may take the advice or they may reject it. Their form of direct democracy is messy and time-consuming. If they reject the ideas that you are certain will help the movement (and I agree with most of your ideas) what can you do? Even though they are fighting for us 99% it is still their call until we are out there. That’s where you and I will have to agree to disagree. And that’s fine, isn’t it? The Civil Rights movement took ten years. The OWS protesters have just gotten started. They may grow or they may fade–and I urgently want them to grow! If we use the Civil Rights movement as a guide, it will take time and the movement will change and splinter and evolve. But at this moment in time, I am sorry, but to me it sounds like Murph is pushing too hard. But the real point is, it doesn’t matter what I think, or what he thinks. It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks except those people who are getting tear gassed, any more than it mattered what I thought in 1967. As for me, I will support the movement with bottled water and blankets, and in any other concrete way I can and I know you and Murph do too. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:59 am What I am saying is the opposite of hubris. I am saying that it’s not my place to insist that activists follow my armchair quarterbacking. How can it be hubris when I am saying I should defer to those doing the protesting? » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:29 am The cops are trying to disband Occupy Oakland again. Here’s the Livestream: » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 12:07 am Em, I don’t disagree with any of your ideas. I have many of the same concerns and some of the same wishes for the Occupiers. But here’s where I think we might disagree: We can sit here on our computers in the comfort of our homes and pontificate all we want, but unless we are out there AS OCCUPIERS, I honestly think it is hubris on our part to tell them what to do. It’s perfectly fine for us to discuss what should happen with the movement here and elsewhere–in fact,I do that too. That’s why we blog–because we are all opinionated and interested. But we are not there with them, and until we are I really think it doesn’t matter what we think; it’s all just our opinions and talk. Who are we to advise the protesters, unless we are willing to join them? And as I said to Murph, the way they’ve decided to organize and make decisions means that our advice is moot in any case. That’s why I question Murph about his involvement–it doesn’t jibe with what I know about their decision-making process, so it sounds like he and his friends are just spinning their wheels, and offering advice where none is wanted. Yes, he has said they asked his advice, but again, they are not structured to take it and run with it. All they can do is present it to the other actual protesters. Murph and you are certainly free to offer them advice, but speaking for myself I feel it’s not my place. If I go and camp out at City Hall, then I’ll say my piece. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 12, 2011 @ 11:55 pm Murph although you addressed this to AdLib, you did so on a public thread so I hope you don’t mind if I chime in. I have some questions, because I have been to the OWS here in L.A. a few times and sat in on a general assembly meeting. I also listened to the live stream of the Oakland GA meeting right after the cops struck it down the first time. So as far as I understand it, all decisions at all OWS localities are made by consensus–and at least in L.A. and Oakland, that means 90% must approve before any action or policy is enacted. That’s why I wonder how it works in your area, since the fact that they are asking your advice seems to be at odds with the General Assembly method. Also, the GA is usually limited to the people actually doing the occupying and not the public at large. So how does that work in your area? As far as advice goes, I personally think it’s up to the actual occupiers to decide and I would feel presumptuous giving them advice. Until I commit to living in a tent in the cold, I don’t think it’s up to me to tell them how to do things. They are doing a stellar job without my input and I am in awe of what they have accomplished! Also, you mentioned a DC event and do the OWS folks in your area realize that there is an Occupy DC, and that the NY occupiers are marching to DC as we speak? There are also several teach-ins around the nation that have been going on for a couple of weeks. Is your local OWS aware of what’s going on elsewhere? From the sound of it, they sound like they are out of the loop and trying to replicate what’s already happening. If I were to recommend anything it would be to follow the several OWS feeds on Twitter. There are Tweets from every Occupy branch and they do a fantastic job of keeping everybody updated in real time. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 12, 2011 @ 9:56 pm I agree to a degree, agrippa. I am upset that the Occupy Oakland protests were–as I worried about–infiltrated by anarchists and others who were never part of the movement. The Oakland Chief of Police even said so. I agree with your earlier comment that OWS should do what they can to stop violence but as a practical matter I don’t see how they can. Oakland is a pretty unstable place in the best of times. What they can do is issue a statement or statements decrying violence. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 3, 2011 @ 4:10 pm Sue, that is such a valuable service–thank you! I will be looking for it. BTW–I have been meaning to read your post but only able to do short spurts today. I am saving it for when I have some peace around here. 🙂 » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 29, 2011 @ 6:27 pm More pix from the Denver Post: » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 29, 2011 @ 6:25 pm Patsy,More info on TO/OT too! Unfreakingbelievable. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 29, 2011 @ 6:17 pm OccupyCleveland rocks: Wins federal suit, injunction against city curfew, re-establishes right to 24-hour protest. ow.ly/7aeLV » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:43 pm Foodchain–WHAT news!? I am watching from aq hand-hld camera on the internet. Here in L.A. there is minimal coverage – under 2 minutes on some stations. Shouldn’t there be ONE freaking station that could provide live coverage for gawds sake! WE HAVE NO NEWS. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:36 pm Oakland protesters having a massive meeting of thousands and asking for a general strike November 2–close all schools, businesses. They want to unions to join them, students and businesses. Their process in accomplishing these decisions is fascinating! » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:32 pm No argument there, AdLib. They should be fired ASAP! But “just following orders” was repudiated in Nuremburg. It’s one thing to disperse the crowds under orders, it’s even one thing to shoot tear gas into a crowd under orders. (Although IMO both of those actions violate our Constitutional rights and should trump any orders.) It’s another to shoot rubber bullets and bean bags and flash-bang grenades into fleeing demonstrators and into people trying to help the injured. But you are correct and I am tired of the foot soldiers getting the blame while the real authorities cowardly try to shift the responsibility!! » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:28 pm Em, They are having a mass assembly meeting. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:21 pm I’m on that stream too Em. I’m watching Oakland though and the crowd is thousands. Someone giving instructions where to report injuries from last night or witnesses. She is giving them the phone # of a national legal association doing pro bono! » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 7:08 pm The cops shot our rights in the head last night. In fact, that’s not too much to say, since Scott Olsen was an Iraq vet who was, as they repeatedly tell us, “fighting for our freedoms.” The tragic irony and taste of bile of that is enraging and heartbreaking. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 6:56 pm Thanks bito! I came across the local ABC feed and it looks like there is a huge crowd tonight. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 6:44 pm I sure did, Em. And absolutely we don’t need any fucking Welcome Mat to assemble! » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 4:22 pm And I meant to add–that is one reason the R’s are insist on tort reform! Protect the cops form being sued. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 4:04 pm You took the words out of my mouth, Em. Oakland will face millions in legal fees and may pay out millions more for injury. » Posted By Chernynkaya On October 26, 2011 @ 4:02 pmComments Posted By Chernynkaya
RT @democracynow: Police now tearing apart library at #OWS. Protesters chanting ‘we are the 99%’
RT @democracynow: Hundreds of police in park dismantling all tents. Medic tent just taken down. #ows
[img]http://www.discountrophies.co.uk/2509-1140-large/synergy-gold-cup-trophy-award.jpg[/img]
http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2011/10/occupy-denver-protesters-face-off-with-police-saturday-october-29-2011/23403/#12
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/shaman-rawb-tv#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=7656805&utm_medium=social
«« Back To Stats Page
Home Stats