Displaying 1,021 To 1,050 Of 10,917 Comments A Snapshot of The Occupy Movement Discussion on Planet POV Kalima HAHAHHAHAHAHHA!! You ran all across the Planet–that must be MILES! But really, thanks! I got “cornfused” while C&P’ing. I got tired of saying the same thing to different people and I figured others–who took the time to write such thoughtful comments–might feel the same. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 15, 2011 @ 5:33 pm Thank you Em. You were gone yesterday, for one reason, and for anyone else who missed it I thought it was worth “preserving in stone!” » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 15, 2011 @ 5:30 pm đł Egads! Sorry!!! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 15, 2011 @ 5:29 pm Sally, I just came across this article, about Goldie Taylor. She’s a sometimes commentator on MSNBC and she writes for The Grio. She was a victim of sexual abuse by a coach in HS, and the whole Penn State horror show made her come forward. I know this is very different from what your husband went through, but it shows how these events bring up old wounds that are repressed but ready to erupt. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 16, 2011 @ 12:17 pm Sally, I am speechless. I hear about things like what your husband went through form time to time–I guess we all have–but they never stop being shocking and horrifying! I know this is unrealistic and impossible but when I hear stories like this I just want there to be some way to sterilize some people to prevent them from having children. They are too broken and they will repeat the cycle and create people who are also broken. Fortunately for your husband, he found you! It doesn’t take away his anguish (or yours at witnessing his pain), but having someone who loves him as you do and who can offer real help makes his situation vastly better than most. It takes so much courage to face the past and to confront the pain–I really applaud you and your husband. In spite of all he’s endured, he is so lucky to have you there for him. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 16, 2011 @ 11:57 am The End of #Occupy? Or a Restart of New Economic Justice Movement? They know exactly why they are there and they know what they want to accomplish and so do most of us. Just because they won’t listen to you doesn’t make them stupid. And Murph, that’s all I’m going to discuss with you about OWS. We just disagree on too many aspects of this for a fruitful discussion. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 8:13 pm Civil Rights movement is not really a good comparison. It took ten years and evolved over that time. See a long conversation about that here among some of us today if interested: » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 7:48 pm If you really want the Occupy movement to last, instead of all this advice this is what they really need more than all the sagacity, from a Tweet from my local Occupiers: #OccupyLA Advice is fine too; go to a General Assembly meeting and you will be listened to and voted on. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 7:30 pm Atdnext, I in no way thought you were bashing the Occupy movement, and I apologize if I misspoke about that. I sincerely hear your concerns even as I don’t completely share them. I am deeply worried about apathy from the Left especially the emoprogs, and the so-called “enthusiasm gap” but I am beginning to be less so if I can believe the polls. There is no question that the only way to enact real, concrete change is via the ballot box. All I am saying is that OWS doesn’t need to mobilize around any particular ballot issue in order to energize voters TO VOTE. I think that voter motivation doesn’t occur in a vacuum: Ohio voters stood on the shoulders of Wisconsin voters, who stood on the shoulders of union organizers, and they all stood on the shoulders of past activists in previous iterations. I believe–but have no proof–that Ohio won in part because of the Occupy movement. Activism begets more activism. I am a little worried about the Movement joining forces with MoveOn, even as I support that organization. MoveOn is not without baggage–remember “General Betrayus?” While I agreed with that ad, it alienated tons of potential allies. To be honest, when trust in almost every institution is shredded, I don’t see the advantage to partnering with any; I myself have become leery of many organizations even on the Left and feel betrayed by some of them. But I could be educated about that and could be wrong. All of that said, I feel that you and I are sure singing from the same hymnbook even if we are not on the exact same page! I so want the movement to grow, to last to make a difference for a long time. I want the Dems to win even more. Oh, I forget another point–about the focus now being on confrontations and keeping their space. I think it has only made the movement more visible and larger. The point of being an Occupier is of course to Occupy, and the reason they are occupying gets discussed whenever they stand their ground, so I guess I’m saying if there were no confrontations, the press would disappear. I don’t really see it a a diversion to the goal. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 6:55 pm atdnext, I could not agree more strongly about how vital it is to GOTV!!! And I also agree that the OWS movement (or the 99% movement, whichever one prefers) has already made incredible progress on many fronts. However, if I am understanding your post, I feel you set up a somewhat false choice: that the Movement is great, but it will not achieve anything further without voting. That is conflating two separate activities in my view, and they are not mutually exclusive. The thing is, as I see it, the Occupiers have done as you say–“…look at how far the previously unchallenged dogma of inequality and austerity has fallen.” They don’t have to explicitly demand that people vote to energize people to vote; their very presence and message makes the urgency of voting all the more apparent. They are the anti-” apathy laced diaspora.” I worry much more about that now than I did before the OWS started. I am not sure that it is necessary for the OWS movement to mobilize to elect the Dems âthey already have just through their protests! Does that mean that each individual Occupier is going to vote? Probably not, but they are doing a tremendous service in getting out the vote nonetheless. They are making the starkest distinction between the two Parties I can imagine, and are more effective at it than politicians, who often have to appeal to a wider electorate. As an example of what I mean, did you watch Nancy Pelosi on Jon Stewart recently? I love her! But she sounded so scripted and impossible to dislodge from her pol-speak. I wanted so much for her to spit out the truth in plain sentences, and with some passion–just the way the protester do. But she can’t; they can. That’s why I see a symbiotic relationship between the Democratic Party and OWS–they both need each other even while at this moment in time, each is understandably wary. Further, as the article you linked to points out âIf things are going to shift, my take is that sustained organizing around issues and being a squeaky wheel has a shot. Organizing around candidates, parties, elections will not do it,â says Bill Dobbs, a member of Occupyâs press team and a longtime New York activist. âThat means not ignoring electoral politics or the people in power but keeping them jumping. Staying at an armâs length rather than discovering that kiss on the cheek from a politician quickly turns into a suffocating bear hug.â As much as I want everyone working to re-elect the President and to keep the Senate and take the House, I see some savvy in that remark. OFA has a very good organization; so does the DCCC, and the DSCC. I see them being aided by the 99% movement. The strength of the Movement is not in Party organizing, or even in repeating Party talking points, but they can are complimentary. I’d probably say more, but we’ve had so many wonderful discussions about this last night and today, that I’m a little spent. More later, if that’s OK. đ » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 5:32 pm Child sexual abuse – a moral failure Kes, I’m with you. The best I’ve been able to accomplish (and thank God I never had anything so terrible to forgive) is to say I forgive, but will not forget. It’s a subtle difference and only really works on things like a friend’s betrayal, or some such transgression. It infers that I can let something pass and continue the relationship but let’s be honest–I cannot forget it and will be wary. Of course, all of that depends on being asked for forgiveness by the guilty party. (As an aside, and I think I’ve mentioned this before, on the Jewish Day of Atonement, Jews cannot ask God for forgiveness for something bad they have done to another person. Forgiveness is not God’s to give in that case. Only the victim can forgive. There are a few rules about that, but that’s another story.) I also think that in terms of “moving on,” there is a presumption that the sexual abuse is not a life-long affliction. This is a false idea; victims of sexual abuse should be seen the same way we would someone paralyzed by an auto accident. Even that is more “forgivable” as it was an accident. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 12:50 pm Khirad, as others have said in various ways, one of the most heartbreaking consequences for the victim of child abuse (and this includes beatings and other forms) is how he automatically blames himself, and not the depraved adult. I believe we are all hard-wired for justice and that it’s one of our most cherished desires and faiths. The universe must make sense and be just. We don’t begin to accept chaos until we are older, and some of us not even then. A child, in his primal need for justice and fairness has to believe in a just universe. So, when he or she is abused, it must be their fault–otherwise, the parents are bad, and that is unthinkable to little ones. Children cannot grasp that the world contains evil in their parents or even in other respected adults; to them that doesn’t make sense and is terrifying. They then carry that blame perhaps their whole lives, clinging to their need for a just world. In a sense, they would rather be guilty than accept injustice. It’s psychically easier than the alternative reality. It is said that sexual abuse takes away the victim’s childhood. That sounds true, but as I think of it, in one way it keeps a person in a lifelong childhood: They may never outgrow the child-like belief that the universe is all good and that therefore they must be bad. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 12:33 pm KT, I agree! Well said. I may be wrong, but it seemed to me that Mr. Day was really indicting the Right. I wish he’s spelled that out unambiguously, but as I read what he’s angry about, those are all RW policies and actions. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 14, 2011 @ 11:40 am Absolutely! She’s a peach! And I just had my first and last vodka of the night and shall now toddle off to bed. (I’ve learned the hard way never to drink and post.) đ » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:46 pm Insult?! Not that I noticed–I’m flattered! (I like flattered. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:36 pm I know LMAO! I decided to wait 15 minutes before I typed anything. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:25 pm Hey, Em–look what you started. Good work, girl! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:21 pm Dammit Sally, stop channeling me! đ » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:19 pm Em, saw it and I was just like you! Only difference was I protested in L.A. I was chosen to be among 3 people who went to talk to Judge Manuel Real here to ask him to release Vietnam War protesters when I was 16, but other than that geographical difference, all the same!! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:17 pm ME TOO!!!! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:12 pm đ Kes, now my cranium has it’s own gravity. Sleep well!! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 9:07 pm Yes, Em, that’s where I think kes said it so well (before you had a chance to say the same), if she could talk to that author. We protested and some of my friends left the country. I don’t blame my generation for that. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 8:57 pm Food, you make a good case about the Penn students, and one I hadn’t thought about. There is an inchoate frustration that the young cannot articulate yet but they are right, and you made me think about that aspect with those students. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 8:49 pm Sally, I saw that and you and I are on the same page about this. (And no, it not just because you shamelessly lied and said I looked 29!) » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 8:47 pm Em, I was replying to kes as you were posting this comment and (JINX!) we said much the same thing. (as did kes to an extent.) I agree with you, and see below for my fuller explanation about that. đ Still, let me reiterate from below– it is important to see how he and his generation FEEL whether it is fair or not. If we want them to listen to us, we’d better listen to them first. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 8:45 pm Kes, you are so freaking smart. Of course, you are right! And so is Thomas Day. There is no shortage of good and bad examples from each generation. But where you are more right than he, is in his discounting of the Boomer generation’s SAME feelings we had towards “The Man.” This is where you got it so right: … but one thing he might want to take a long look at may be at the root of his misplaced faith in the powers-that-be. A healthy chunk of the Boomer generation was able to take a step back from the pressure to go to war, analyze what the real agenda was, and refuse to go. Day might not now be an Iraq war vet, with all the trauma that that entails, if he had done the same. But the truth is–or some truth anyway–is that many of us became The Man over the years. Nevertheless, in my own bubble mentality I read his sense of betrayal as not so much by we former protesters and hippies, but from those in my generation who elected the past Administration and maybe Bill Clinton. (Oh brother–See how that works? How selectively I read the article? He wasn’t blaming ME, he was blaming the Republicans!) Even though I realize how I chose to interpret Day’s assignment of blame, I have to maintain that Progressives did not put those morally bankrupt policies and politicians in place, they did, so a part of me wants to say, “Don’t look at me!” Yet, did we fight these forces hard enough, early enough? Did we not also slide into complacency, or ignore what was happening while we were busy building our careers and raising our families? I admit I did. It wasn’t until Bush was elected that I got a slap upside the head. The main thing about this article though is that whatever we say, it’s how Day and many of his generation feel, fair or not. There was an early sign from the OWS movement that captures their zeitgeist–and mine too–perfectly: “SHIT IS FUCKED UP AND BULLSHIT.” Well, yep! And as you know, I cannot agree more with you about the need for us to butt out. Not just because I think we messed things up since the 60’s but because it is THEY who are out on the streets for the most part. Not exclusively, but to say that they should heed our “sage” advice just because we are older and have taken part in past struggles sounds, well, I’m sorry, pompous. That article you linked to is wonderful, BTW. I needs to be said, and if anything good can come of this tragedy I hope it will be a thorough soul searching, as President Obama has asked for: » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 8:35 pm Wow, I just read an amazing essay about Penn: Iâm 31, an Iraq war veteran, a Penn State graduate, a Catholic, a native of State College, acquaintance of Jerry Sanduskyâs, and a product of his Second Mile foundation. They have failed us, over and over and over again. I speak not specifically of our parents — I have two loving ones — but of the public leaders our parentsâ generation has produced. With the demise of my own communityâs two most revered leaders, Sandusky and Joe Paterno, I have decided to continue to respect my elders, but to politely tell them, âOut of my way.â They have had their time to lead. Timeâs up. Iâm tired of waiting for them to live up to obligations. Think of the world our parentsâ generation inherited. They inherited a country of boundless economic prosperity and the highest admiration overseas, produced by the hands of their mothers and fathers. They were safe. For most, they were endowed opportunities to succeed, to prosper, and build on their parentsâ work. For those of us in our 20s and early 30s, this is not the world we are inheriting. The article is worth the whole read, and I really hear what this young man is saying. I think the same applies to the OWS movement. It is by no means merely a youth movement–I have seen many my age and older involved too. But it was stated and peopled by mostly the young. This explains why they are resistant to listening to our advice. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 6:02 pm Em, great post. I was surprised at myself when this story became well-known at how enraged I became. I know about child sexual abuse–that’s not what surprised me. But the Penn story really made me outraged. It embodies so much of what is sick about our country: money over morality. We seem to have completely lost our moral compass on a grand scale, and it affects almost every institution and makes a mockery of our so-called values. I practically shook with rage when the details came out. The causes of pedophilia probably have to do with bad brain wiring, as do many illnesses, but this is one of those cases where I just don’t give a damn why they are the way they are, unless it can lead to a cure. Everything I have read about it shows that the impulse is immune to treatment–short of castration. And if at this point in our medical knowledge that is all we can do, I say do it. What gets me is that some pedophiles claim that it’s like homosexuality in that it is naturally occurring in a percentage of the population, and that one day it will be legal. To this I say BULLSHIT. When something is between two consenting adults, fine, but when it involves a child, it is a slander to gay men and women! But I digressed there. The real horror for me is how multiple child rapes were pushed under the rug to protect the money from the football program, how a sport can become a cult at the expense of any decency, and how those student rioted when Paterno was fired. Who ARE those students? This is the future? Yeah–if the Right has it’s way. Money uber alles. Disgusting. But what you say is so important: We must look! One of our worst failings is to hide things we find uncomfortable–whether it be sexual abuse of women and children, corruption, or any of society’s problems. It’s like the way cancer was dealt with in my grandparents’ generation: Don;t say the word and it’ll go away. How stupid and irresponsible. » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 13, 2011 @ 11:04 am KT– thank you! » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 11, 2011 @ 12:48 pm So glad you posted this KQ! I have been looking for the right place to post this, From the Maddow Blog– Real ways to Celebrate Veterans Day: Iraq and Afghanistan Vets Give2 the Troops: (Used) Cell Phones for Soldiers Trees From Home: [img]http://treesfromhome.org/images/Fast%20Times%20013.jpg[/img] Let’s Say Thanks: Veterans Affairs pausing at 11:11 » Posted By Chernynkaya On November 11, 2011 @ 12:47 pmComments Posted By Chernynkaya
https://planetpov.com/2011/10/05/the-occupy-wall-street-thread/#comments
We need water, paper towles, gloves, HOT FOOD, bowls & cups, almond milk, sanitizer, fruit, and prepackaged foods to keep food tent open.
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http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/13/4052078/obama-penn-state-sex-abuse-case.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/penn-state-my-final-loss-of-faith/2011/11/11/gIQAwmiIDN_blog.html
[…]
One thing I know for certain: A leader must emerge from Happy Valley to tie our community together again, and it wonât come from our parentsâ generation.
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http://iava.org/
http://www.give2thetroops.org/
http://www.cellphonesforsoldiers.com/
http://treesfromhome.org/
http://www.letssaythanks.com/
http://www.va.gov/opa/speeches/2011/11_10_2011.asp
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