• sillylittleme : night

  • AdLib : Closing the Vox bar for the night, have a great weekend slm!

  • sillylittleme : The timing was good…

  • AdLib : slm – How sweet the sound!

  • sillylittleme : My ipod is playing amazing grace.

  • AdLib : Miles – There are harmless lies too, that only help people move forward with their lives.

  • Miles Long : I’ll think on that…good night.

  • Miles Long : The good done in the name of a lie is still good…but what then?

  • sillylittleme : Miles, doing good makes one feel good and that should be all that is needed.

  • Miles Long : If that’s the case…where are we, really?

  • Miles Long : Someone said that most people are only as honest as their options.

  • AdLib : Really enjoyed this conversation with you, Miles and slm, look forward to picking this up next Friday on Vox!

  • Miles Long : Not if it’s based on a lie. It calls into question the motivation for doing good in the first place.

  • AdLib : Miles – If someone’s faith encourages them to live a happy and loving life, is that not good?

  • Miles Long : We’ll revisit this again, no doubt. Nite all…

  • Miles Long : The ends justify the means?

  • AdLib : Night Miles, have a great (non-evil) weekend! ;-)

  • Miles Long : Adlib: And if that faith is based on a lie, what then?

  • sillylittleme : Night Miles. Looking forward to reading it.

  • AdLib : Miles – No question that most of the violence in human history came from religious beliefs. It is time to transcend that but I do believe that it can be done withou compromising one’s faith.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, reminds me a bit of what Carter was trying to convey to the public. We didn’t get the message.

  • Miles Long : I’ll figure out a way to get it to you.

  • Miles Long : Hey, I have to run. BTW: I found that short story.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, agree wholeheartedly!!

  • Miles Long : Here’s my perspective: We’ve had thousands and thousands of years insulting, fighting and killing over who has the best imaginary friend…isn’t it about time to cut that out?

  • sillylittleme : Miles, couldn’t decide what to study so you studied it all? What to make sure you didn’t miss out on anything?

  • sillylittleme : Well Miles should we not believe in anything? I would like to see humanity start having faith in one another first, And then if they have to have something else to have faith in….

  • Miles Long : I have a D.D. along with the Ph.D.

  • Miles Long : I’m an ecumenical pastor.

  • Miles Long : But the questioning doesn’t get to the bottom line; “Why Do We Believe?” Wow! Look at the time. I have to edit a short story that’s going to be published in an anthology…

  • sillylittleme : Miles, out of curiosity what denomination,

  • AdLib : Miles – I think the anthropomorphica l image of God is a bit challenging to retain but there can be more complex representations of God that seem understandable.

  • sillylittleme : Miles actually the impulse of faith is more about the questioning of it than taking it at face value. That’s why so many have it so backwards.

  • Miles Long : All religion exploits the worst instincts of man…

  • sillylittleme : adlib, whoever came up with those knew about the basest of human instinct…

  • Miles Long : Well, even as an ordained minister I have my doubts about the existence of God. As an empiricist I refuse to take something like that on faith.

  • AdLib : slm – Yes. The Seven Deadly Sins indeed!

  • sillylittleme : Miles, I don’t know if there is a god or not. But what ever got this whole thing started probably didn’t realize how out of hand it would get and relatively quickly in the scheme of things.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib and envy. They covet what they won’t ever have…

  • Miles Long : If there is a god, He obviously don’t like stupid.

  • sillylittleme : Sick? No, sad.

  • AdLib : Yep, the emotional flaws in human beings (especially the less enlightened), one of them being greed, are so easy for the wealthy to exploit.

  • Miles Long : How screwed up do your priorities have to be to engage in that kind of thinking? How sick are they?

  • sillylittleme : Miles, someone should explain that the wealthy made sure that lottery winners paid earned income tax rates, not the passive capital tax rates.

  • Miles Long : Exactly, slm.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, because they think they can get into that club………… ……………. ……………. …….someday.

  • Miles Long : They think they’re reserving the privilege for themselves when they win the lottery. How fucked up is that?

  • Miles Long : Do you know why the working poor support the Republican Party’s lauding of tax breaks for the wealthy?

  • sillylittleme : Miles we do need a more equitable form of trade. It is one of the reasons that the western world is confounded by cultures that use barter.

  • Miles Long : Exactly…

  • AdLib : Miles – Sure would make for a major reduction in evil. Money is a coagulation point for evil.

  • Miles Long : Take the concept of money out of a society and a whole lot of evil disappears.

  • AdLib : slm – But then love is a root of good so loving money…it’s so confusing!

  • Miles Long : I have written about this very issue in my novels.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, that is why the love of it is the root of evil..

  • Miles Long : Trying to overcome our baser impulses.

  • Miles Long : Reducing bad behavior.

  • Miles Long : Or, they understand that a rising tide floats all boats.

  • AdLib : Miles – There are generous people in our society too, one could argue that people are good because of the nurture of loving parents.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, because small communities only flourish when all work together. That is how they survive.

  • Miles Long : I can point to one universal feature of society that foments dishonesty: Money.

  • Miles Long : Those primitive cultures have no notion of hoarding.

  • AdLib : Chicken and the egg, where would the first evil person come from if evil didn’t originate in that person?

  • sillylittleme : Miles, and envy.

  • Miles Long : dishonesty

  • Miles Long : Nope, it comes from dishonest and greed…both taught.

  • AdLib : Miles – Ah, but that’s the rub. Where does the original “evil” come from if not from within human beings?

  • sillylittleme : Ok, how about sharing. That is something that is taught, yet that never seems to stick…

  • Miles Long : Correct, because it’s woven into our cultures.

  • AdLib : slm – That’s the whole story behind The Devil making people do “bad” things, the representation that people can be tricked by the devil to be bad. Instead, if one sees all people as containing the same weaknesses, then we can understand why everyone, from Presidents to the guy next door, can really screw up and have affairs, trade arms to terrorists, etc.

  • Miles Long : ONLY in those Amazonian cultures that have NO societal qualities as first, second and third world cultures do we find a whole different paradigm.

  • Miles Long : Lying is learned, and after that the child has already fallen down the slippery slope.

  • Miles Long : As for your assertion about studies, too many of them have been done in too many cultures to even try that explanation. {chuckle}

  • Miles Long : Infants do not lie until they’re taught. When they’re young enough they always tell the truth even when there may be a negative outcome. It’s only when supplied with an example of lying, as in your example, do they emulate the behavior.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, but evil gains strength and then wanes for a bit and then rears its ugly head again. So in reality it never really ceases to exist. It is as if they find each other and wreak havoc for no reason but personal pleasure at seeing others suffer.

  • AdLib : Miles – Even the most studious can have diametrically opposed positions on issues, especially when it’s on the subject of human behavior.

  • Miles Long : I have stated what study and science has found…bad behavior is the result of nurture because they same traits and behavior have been studied in animals including primates.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: You simply have to study what I have.

  • AdLib : Miles – Lying can indeed be learned but could there be no case in which a child lied from their own decision to not get in trouble or get something they wanted? I see people as a marbling of positive and negative traits. Most of us learn to exercise our conscience and repress the bad traits…but they can sneak out sometimes. Those who are what I’d define of evil don’t have that kind of regulator and are capable of doing terrible things.

  • Miles Long : One of the first behaviors infants learn.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, it is a terrible pattern. Any chance we can break ourselves of that?

  • Miles Long : Lying = nurture

  • Miles Long : Parents lie to their children all the time, children learn almost immediately that dishonesty is a necessary componant of socialization.

  • sillylittleme : Well that is because parents start out by lying…

  • Miles Long : That’s the end of the nature/nurture argument.

  • Miles Long : Lying is a learned behavior. That’s the beginning…

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, add me to that list…

  • Miles Long : I misrepresented the term “good.” And chat is a fucked up place to try to explain abstract thought, reasoning and even facts. Your missive about nature and nurture does not extend to learned behavior like lying. That is settled behavioral science.

  • AdLib : slm – Nothing wrong with divorce at all. In fact there are those who think marriage is evil…especiall y some who have been divorced!

  • sillylittleme : Ok everyone has to watch trading places again.

  • AdLib : Miles – There is no science that says all people are born good, there just isn’t. Theories yes but not scientific proof of an absolute.

  • AdLib : Miles, that’s not the case. The nurture vs. nature debate has and will go on.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, what’s wrong with divorce? Same parting of the ways, just two lives instead of one.

  • Miles Long : I’m not talking about absolutes, I’m talking science.

  • AdLib : Miles – On the other hand, why do you insist on absolutes? Absolutes are usually not accurate.

  • sillylittleme : Bad behavior is exacerbated by society as a whole. We are creatures of our environment.

  • Miles Long : Especially when scientific study backs this up?

  • AdLib : slm – If it wasn’t premeditated, one could argue for frustration or evil.

  • Miles Long : Why is it so hard for you to agree with the fact that bad behavior is learned, not intrinsic?

  • Miles Long : a 2 year-old is just at the cusp of joining society…becaus e it’s attentions are beginning to turn outward and not simply consumed by self.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, did he plan the killing? In the moment?

  • AdLib : Miles – That’s a whole other semantical discussion, what constitutes evil and what is just an expression of frustration (a husband who shoots his ex-wife out of frustration for example, was that evil or just an act of frustration?).

  • Miles Long : Nope, we f-ed up already by having twice as many people on the globe as it can reasonably sustain. Where there’s need, there’s evil (using the term generically).

  • sillylittleme : Miles, maybe the answer is to stay insulated from the outside world and go back to smaller tribes.

  • Miles Long : You’re mistaking frustration and a lack of communications skills with evil.

  • AdLib : Miles – No, sorry but I’ve had a 2 year old and those are instincts that are universal, not inherited from parents. That is factually proven, you can pick up a number of books about child development which demonstrate that in all children from all cultures, that the same phases are gone through.

  • Miles Long : They do NOT have the societal ills that the rest of the world suffers from.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: That cilture doesn’t exist. The closet I can point out to you are Amazonian cultures that, until recent times, have had NO exposure to the rest of the world.

  • AdLib : Miles – So your proposition is that all human beings are born only having positive and constructive thoughts? Can you think of any instance of a culture that was such an actual Garden of Eden that proves that point?

  • Miles Long : And with primates as well.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, because two year olds have no control over their environment and they are overindulged and aren’t taught that no isn’t always a bad thing.

  • Miles Long : Hey, I’m not going to argue. The studies have been done, and in more than American culture.

  • Miles Long : You really don’t think that 2 year-olds don’t watch their parents? And a tantrum is NOT doing shit to your neighbor, it’s utilizing the communication skills at hand.

  • AdLib : Miles, that’s just not the case.

  • sillylittleme : No Miles, our negative impulses come out because of many factors.

  • AdLib : Miles – Disagree with you, who teaches a two year old to throw tantrums when they don’t get what they want?

  • Miles Long : I’m telling you. This is settled science.

  • Miles Long : OMG! Our negative impulses are taught! They don’t exist until we start becoming socialized.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, hasn’t America always been a bit of a lie…

  • AdLib : Miles – What culture in the world isn’t ultimately self-destructive ?

  • AdLib : slm – Very good point about the Garden of Eden. Human beings have a duality of nature, we have impulses that we have to fight that are negative and other ones that are admirable. What makes one person suddenly rush to help an elderly woman who falls down and another walk by emotionlessly?

  • Miles Long : America culture is completely self-destructive , that’s why I say it’s not survival oriented. Our current values are completely dissipated, and the exceptions you point out are pointless because they cannot sway the course of the culture to a better path.

  • sillylittleme : Ablib, not just nurture but societal pressures.

  • AdLib : Miles – And that’s because those traits are within all of us. I think it is nurture that helps us decide not to act on our negative impulses and vice versa.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib and that is all you are supposed to understand about the Garden of Eden. That once humanity became self-aware there was nothing more to do than damage control…

  • AdLib : I do agree with you slm, that all people are born with their positive and negative impulses. If evil was cultural then there would have to be proof of that in different cultures. There’s not, people are the same all over. They get jealous, envious, on and on. Negative traits are as natural for human beings to have as positive ones.

  • sillylittleme : Miles needs an exorcism, stat!!!

  • Miles Long : Adlib: I’m one of those people you are talking about. I get NOTHING from acting this way but empty praise. But that hasn’t stopped me so far, but the temptation to simply look out for Number One is getting quite tempting.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, it is never rewarded because being and doing good is supposed to be reward enough.

  • AdLib : Miles – That’s why it’s far more rare to find people so willing to self-sacrifice and be those few exceptional people in history than it is to be a tyrant or destructive 1%er.

  • Miles Long : Cheney was falling-down drunk out in that field.

  • sillylittleme : No Miles, I think we have the ability to be both. Some have more good or evil, some embrace either their good or evil sides because it suits them. Dick Cheney is a great example of someone not able to see how truly evil they are. Even though it is apparent to everyone else. Wonder what his friend said to him that got him shot…

  • Miles Long : And, standing for what’s right is almost NEVER rewarded.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: True, pissing into the wind always has it’s hazards.

  • AdLib : Miles – It’s much more challenging to stand up for what is right than to give into what is wrong.

  • Miles Long : It’s all culture.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: Infants learn to lie as they are learning to speak.

  • AdLib : slm – I do think that if people are properly socialized as children, they learn empathy better and aren’t as prone to do horrible things. Then there are the mentally ill who are born with the potential fr such tendancies no matter their upbringing.

  • Miles Long : Mostly by watching everyone else…

  • Miles Long : We learn evil…

  • sillylittleme : Miles, the truly good or the truly evil?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: The fact they are so few and far between proves my assertion.

  • Miles Long : slm: You’re more right than you know.

  • AdLib : slm – Oh, I think the evil always get their due (and attention). Human history is full of the remarkable like Gandhi and MLK and the disgusting like Hitler and Putin.

  • sillylittleme : So its all Dr Spock’s fault!! Knew it.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, some of us brats grow up eventually.

  • sillylittleme : It’s the yin and yang, the balance of good and evil. I wonder if most of humanity historically recognized the evil in their midst and if they just shrugged it off and went about their business.

  • AdLib : Miles – Yep, there is a debate. Even with children, you can see some of these same traits in 3 year olds, the selfishness, disregard for others, dishonesty. In fact, I see the corrupt as often resembling brats who never grew up.

  • sillylittleme : It

  • Miles Long : And the cockroaches keep marching along…

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, all the bad dinosaurs were gone, only the tame ones remained…

  • AdLib : slm – Oh! Then why didn’t the Romans just throw Jesus to the raptors?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: There’s really no debate. Corruption is nurture, not nature; just watch how toddlers behave as they grow up and become more aware how their parents behave. They learn dishonesty and selfishness as they mature.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, revenge comes from what? Cain and Abel?

  • sillylittleme : But the nurturing was typically a feminine role. So somewhere along the line we messed up.

  • AdLib : Miles – That’s a good debate, nurture or nature on the corruption of groups like religions, political parties, etc. I think it is the nature of human beings to have emotional flaws that cause them to want gratifications that hurt others.

  • sillylittleme : Adib, I think Mary rode a dinosaur into Bethlehem.

  • Miles Long : Nope…it’s all testosterone-dri ven culture.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, so wouldn’t that be women’s fault?

  • AdLib : slm – You mean Jesus never knew the Easter Bunny?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: That’s because man is so flawed, by nurture, not nature.

  • sillylittleme : Poor Yeshua, I wonder if he would have bothered if he knew how his legacy would be so mangled.

  • AdLib : Miles – I think any group or organization can begin as altruistically as possible but eventually, it often becomes taken over and corrupted by the power hungry and greedy.

  • sillylittleme : All of the Christian holidays have pagan origins. Even Beelzebub is based on the roman god of wine baccus.

  • Miles Long : {very old joke}

  • Miles Long : Hey, we don’t celebrate Easter any more because we found the body.

  • AdLib : slm – Can’t remember, was it Lenny Bruce who joked about if they had electric chairs back them, Christians would be wearing small electric chairs on necklaces?

  • Miles Long : I didn’t say that religion doesn’t serve some good in society. I said the basis for it was a fraud.

  • AdLib : Miles – I used to be much tougher on religion but I have seen wonderful people inspired by their religion to be generous with others so I can’t be as absolute about it. I do think that many of those who stand above others in a religion are corrupt and don’t even genuinely believe in the dogma.

  • sillylittleme : Well of course Miles, we would be better off having many gods and worshiping our planet and all that lives on it. At least those are real life every day miracles.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, I think if they would start by removing his method of death from around their necks, they’d realize how crazy the idea of his death and not his life being celebrated is.

  • Miles Long : Well, that was a conversation killer!

  • Miles Long : Because religion has ALWAYS been a fraud.

  • AdLib : It is hard to get past the idea of a religion founded around a man who was so dedicated to peace having become the justification for such hatred.

  • sillylittleme : New Age still exists, though not surprisingly with a heavy dose of BS.

  • Miles Long : I want 52% of Congress, 52% of the sitting judges, 52% of all the governors and 52% of all government workers to be women, then we’d really get some great things happening around here!

  • Miles Long : Exactly…

  • sillylittleme : You mean my gender?

  • AdLib : slm – The whole New Age movement that cropped up in the 1960’s/1970’s and continued strongly for a while, was about people seeking that more peaceful/feminin e spirituality.

  • sillylittleme : The Talmud is commentary. A supplemental to the OT.

  • Miles Long : Exactly! Would you get your sex on that and make it happen?

  • sillylittleme : That’s why we need to go back to that time, when women ran the world and men were content to let them.

  • AdLib : slm – The Babylonians were around before Christians and had a very advanced society because it was based on peace (like Christianity was supposed to be…until all the rewriting of the Bible by the kings and powerful.

  • Miles Long : Any scripture that one quotes from was written by men with an agenda…

  • sillylittleme : adlib, yum!!!

  • AdLib : slm – Women were created from a man’s rib. That is why everyone loves spare ribs.

  • sillylittleme : But rather from his side, that she should be near his heart.

  • sillylittleme : Nor from his feet that she should be his slave.

  • Miles Long : LOL!

  • AdLib : Miles – But how could there be religions 15,000 years old when the Earth is only 6,000 years old?

  • sillylittleme : God did not create a woman from man’s head, that he command her,

  • Miles Long : Not 15,000 {grin}

  • AdLib : Babylonia was thousands of years ago.

  • sillylittleme : Well then they messed up because that isn’t how it is supposed to work. There is a quote from the Talmud that is one of my favorites:

  • Miles Long : Male-centered religions are modern constructs.

  • AdLib : Miles – With regards to current mainstream religions, that’s true but there have been such religions along the way.

  • Miles Long : Adlib, that’s recent history. I’m talking about a paradigm shift thousands of years ago that set the planet to ruin.

  • AdLib : Miles – Male centered religions grew up parallel to feminist religions such as the Gaia type beliefs of the Babylonians but male-centered religions were naturally more violent and destroyed the feminine ones.

  • Miles Long : The clear evidence of this historical fact is that in NO organized religion, women are never equals to men.

  • Miles Long : Men created organized religion to take power away from women, pure and simple.

  • Miles Long : Woman ruled all civilizations on Earth as near as 15,000 years ago. They ruled by their mystical nature of giving birth and bleeding without dying.

  • Miles Long : No, the point of organized religion was to take societal power away from women.

  • AdLib : Let’s not forget that while an adviser t Obama, he fought hard for Obama to give up on the ACA and just try to pass a few trivial elements of it. He is an adversary of the best interests of the majority.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, the point of religion is to question not to not question the faith…

  • Miles Long : He’s very liable to lose the election next year.

  • AdLib : Miles – Rahm needs to be sent to an Old Politicians Home.

  • Miles Long : It is…and I’m an ordained minister saying so.

  • AdLib : slm – I have a theory that such people have a degree of mental illness, sociopathy, that inspires them to act as they do. Most decent human beings couldn’t do such things.

  • Miles Long : slm: Blind faith in religion has been characterized as a mental illness.

  • Miles Long : He needs me a lot more than I need him, Adlib!

  • AdLib : Rahm is so corrupt, I can only hope he loses re-election.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, I just don’t get that mentality.

  • AdLib : slm – Exactly. The peons are recruited by the elite to fight their wars and manipulated into it by God and Country or pandering to their insecurities.

  • AdLib : Seeya ppo!

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, since Alexander how many have stood on the front lines?

  • AdLib : slm – In Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Israel, Pakistan and on and on,the power hungry recruit the ignorant and religious as their army since the 1% is too small and cowardly to risk their own selves to fight their wars to bring them more wealth and power.

  • sillylittleme : He’s another Jew who needs to have his foreskin reattached and drummed out of Judaism.

  • Miles Long : Later, PPO…

  • Miles Long : Rahm is going to kills my ass if I want to because I do better than he does in making great things happen in Chicago.

  • sillylittleme : night pink, hope all is well

  • pinkpantheroz : Sorry, folks, got caught up in a wee problem here. Have to go. Till next week, sayonara

  • sillylittleme : Miles will Rahm attend?

  • Miles Long : It’s very similar, slm. For example, Monday I meet with the Governor’s Economic Development Deputy because I’m building a manufacturing plant in the Englewood Community and bring 300 tech jobs the the people there. The Gov. wants to have a photo op with my team to make him look good.

  • sillylittleme : Ablib, that is so true. But Bibi’s crusade is not entirely about the history. Read about his brother the hero of Entebbe. He’s been living in that shadow for too long.

  • AdLib : And those minorities are the 1%, the wealthy white people.

  • sillylittleme : Is that anything like a community organizer? Mr President is that you?

  • AdLib : slm – Unfortunately, whether in the Middle East or America, people are manipulated through their religious beliefs by cynical minorities lusting for power.

  • Miles Long : Ploitics is a full-contact sport here in Chicago. {grin}

  • Miles Long : I’m a Chicago activist…

  • sillylittleme : Knew the ballot questions and who the candidates were?

  • Miles Long : And in almost every election since then I bring between 10 and 50 other people to the polls as well.

  • Miles Long : I have…

  • sillylittleme : Miles did you vote every election from the age of 18?

  • Miles Long : When the young get off their asses and vote their issues I’ll change my opinion of them.

  • sillylittleme : Miles from your fingertips to the universe’s plan….

  • AdLib : Miles, the percentage of younger voters in both Presidential and non-Presidential years has been going up. There is interest but overall participation in non-Presidential elections is low anyway.

  • sillylittleme : Talking isn’t the same as action. I get that.

  • Miles Long : If everyone was really that smart, there wouldn’t be a Republican in Congress.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib and they are made poorer by giving their spare cash to some religious charlatan that is laughing all the way to the bank.

  • Miles Long : Talk is cheap…

  • Miles Long : slm: Then let’s see them vote.

  • sillylittleme : Miles they need to be reminded every two years, not every four. They’ll get it.

  • AdLib : slm – I’d guess that the reason so many poorly educated rural people vote against their own financial interests is because they’re manipulated by their religious beliefs and racial issues to vote Repub and “Take our country back!”

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, I am looking forward to that day…

  • Miles Long : Then

  • Miles Long : slm: They let’s see them vote.

  • sillylittleme : Ok Miles. Glass half full. Not all of the youth are stupid nor are they all disengaged.

  • Miles Long : Old Americans are scared of EVERYTHING.

  • AdLib : slm – True, when the upcoming generations of many races replace the old hateful generation of white males, it will be more than they can handle.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, I think it is older Americans that are the real problem. Not the young, so education may be part of it not all of it.

  • Miles Long : slm: They are blind because they really ARE terminally stupid.

  • Miles Long : slm: They killed the spirit of the young by painting such a bleak picture of their future they are incapable of acting effectively.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, but how can they not see that they are being used?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: That’s because they dumbing down of America on the Right has been so successful for 2 generations now.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, I think that it is the youth and how they view the world that should have them shitting in their pants. That the majority of whom will be non-white only adds to the fun

  • AdLib : Miles, oh yeah, very useful fools for the wealthy. So easy to press the buttons on the poor, undereducated white men who need to be able to point a finger somewhere to blame for the struggling in their lives and the Repubs are happy to point that finger.

  • AdLib : slm – Yes, good additions to the list.

  • AdLib : slm – You’re right, this is why they need all their voter oppression and gerrymandering, the white males are already a minority.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: But they’re useful idiots for those who rule.

  • sillylittleme : Jeff Merkley, Ed Markey, there are others.

  • AdLib : Miles – Actually, my experience is that small minded people like racists don’t really employ empathy or long term thinking. They seem far more motivated by base emotions.

  • sillylittleme : Adlib, in their minds it matters little whether they are an epidermal minority. they already are a minority of the populace. They do see different ideas that are cropping up that have made them put some crazy laws in place. I wish the Koch Bros would just hurry up and die already.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: They are, but they have NO power to change anything…that ‘s supposed to come from us. Will it? Doubtful.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: People ALWAYS imagine the actions of others based on what they would do. And we have 400 years to see what whites will do to control this country.

  • AdLib : Miles – I think Elizabeth Warren and Sherrod Brown are the real deal.

  • Miles Long : Plus only the likes of Bernie Sanders speak truth to power, most everyone else is too cowardly to stand up and speal out…well, except Alan Grayson.

  • AdLib : Miles – I don’t know that the fearful whites are imagining what it will be like as a minority as opposed to panicking at the loss of domination and entitlement.

  • sillylittleme : I was hoping that the President would have supported Occupy, I understand the reasoning behind his decision, but he could have sent a spokesperson and the National Guard to protect them.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: The fact of the matter is that we have not empowered the Democrats enough to represent us, they still need/want all that Conservative, corporate cash to survive.

  • Miles Long : You have half the country (Conservatives) too stupid to understand how they are merely slaves to the Oligarcy. The other half can’t get their shit together to slowly seize power.

  • sillylittleme : yes but it have NEVER worked out well in the long run for the monied. they ignore history at their own peril

  • Miles Long : the 1% rule absolutely.

  • AdLib : You see what happened when Occupy Wall Street tried to take on classism, they were slapped down by the Democrats and Republicans using our militarized police forces.

  • Miles Long : slm: that is the essence of Class in America.

  • Miles Long : That is not survival oriented…it’s a recipe for doing whatever’s possible to maintain power. Like disenfranchising minority voters for example.

  • sillylittleme : It isn’t class per se. It is access to money and what quality of life one leads.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: The great white culture in this country is fear-driven; fear of the coming minority status in the 2040s. Whates (most) are imagining how it’s going to be when Hispanics start treating them the way they treated Hispanic for the last 100 years.

  • sillylittleme : Why they get away with it is because most people are too busy trying to make a happy life for themselves to care.

  • AdLib : Miles – Not clear on what you mean by “survival oriented”? Not looking at the long term?

  • Miles Long : Race is ALWAYS going to be a divisive factor until we seriously address class, and that’s never goiny to happen when you can purchase a country.

  • sillylittleme : Miles, I hate to tell you that survival is not the plan for most of us, We are fodder for the powerful. Why they can

  • Miles Long : We live to exploit differences in America so the Plutocracy can rule without difficulty.

  • Miles Long : It won’t change. That’s the basis for the speculative fiction I write. I do not believe American culture or Black culture in America are survival oriented.

  • Miles Long : The difference between the situational and situational has no intersection on a VENN Diagram.

  • sillylittleme : Ok Miles, what do you wish to see happen to change it.

  • Miles Long : BUT IT’S FACT!

  • Miles Long : slm: I read about that whole incident. It bolsters every argument I put forth in those posts. There’s little to no common experience a white person encounters that comes close to the daily expectations of non-whites in America. Just my saying so really pissed a bunch of people off.

  • AdLib : Miles – You misunderstand, my point was that a writer needs to be able to write characters that are very different from him, the opposite sex, different races, etc. and the ability to empathize allows one to be able to write convincingly about characters that are wholly different from him/her.

  • Miles Long : As for your mentioning writing, of course I can write whites. Non-whites in America HAVE to understand the dominate culture in order to live. There’s a flaw in your reasoning.

  • sillylittleme : miles, a day after my incident a certain Harvard Professor was nearly arrested for entering his own home. sometimes cops are bad.

  • Miles Long : Adlib: Empathy is not fact, it’s feeling. My arguments were entirely factual, not based on feelings. Also, most everyone wanted to discuss the situational, not the instutional…a hell of a BIG difference.

  • AdLib : Miles – I did respond to you. I don’t agree with that broad a brush since as I mentioned, those who have experienced prejudice and bigotry for different reasons (as many women have) gives them a grounding to empathize with others. But you’re a writer and if someone told you that you could only write characters who were your race, you would probably argue that wasn’t the case, wouldn’t you?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: I have a depth of knowledge of the subject that is not likely to be equaled here or anywhere else. I was teaching the subject at the University level as a Sophomore in college.

  • sillylittleme : miles we know, we just don’t do anything about it. complacency nearly killed this nation and race is only one issue to ignore.

  • Miles Long : I’m fine, it’s everyone else, well most everyone else who got pissed off because I pointed out that whites have no idea what it’s like to be non-white in America.

  • AdLib : Miles – I appreciated what your point was but any critical POVs on race on any blog will bring a degree of controversy.

  • sillylittleme : adlib, but there would be no question where he/she came from,,,

  • sillylittleme : no, it is time for you to vent…

  • AdLib : slm – I don’t know about that…after all, to hear them describe it, slaves were just lucky to be slaves.

  • Miles Long : Anyway, most everyone got pissed off at me for discussing race this week…perhaps I’ll lay off this one! {laughing}

  • sillylittleme : yes, damn that electoral college. sounds edumicated…

  • Miles Long : Won by Electorial Landslide both times.

  • sillylittleme : see guys, I think if he had been a descendent of slaves that would have been ok. plus he was educated overseas for a time and they don’t want educated anyones…

  • AdLib : Miles – Obama won convincingly in each election unlike Bush…who didn’t even win his first time and needed the SCOTUS to crown him President.

  • Miles Long : It’s killing them that two times in a row, a half-Black POTUS was the best person in the entire country to be POTUS!

  • AdLib : slm – To racists like the GOTP, one drop of minority blood means you’re not white.

  • sillylittleme : miles that was my fault, I voted for him twice. me and millions of Americans…

  • Miles Long : Adlib: Then he had the very nerve to get reelected!

  • AdLib : slm – Perry played Racist Football as a Field Worker Kicker.

  • sillylittleme : You know, I think it is more that he is half and half. and they must have their purity…

  • Miles Long : Before Reagan Republicans were quite rational…in some cases even admirable.

  • AdLib : After all, we all know that a black Democrat ain’t supposed to be in the White House! That alone is impeachable!

  • sillylittleme : miles, were they ever?

  • Miles Long : Adlib: Too true, he destroyed any notion of white exceptionalism once and for all.

  • sillylittleme : adlib, did he play in college? or did he learn to throw babies at the ranch

  • Miles Long : This current crop of Republicans simply aren’t rational…

  • AdLib : Miles – I think the first thing that made them want to impeach Obama was his taking the oath of office.

  • sillylittleme : miles that yet really fries my socks. anyone with a lick of sense knows it is a bad idea,

  • AdLib : slm – Perry probably wants a photo op of him throwing a Columbian baby back over the fence like a football.

  • Miles Long : He didn’t load all those refugee children in Air Force One and take them back home…

  • Miles Long : He didn’t approve the XL Pipeline yet…

  • Miles Long : He’s trying to get corporate tax loopholes closed…

  • sillylittleme : miles, now you’re on to something…

  • Miles Long : He’s liable to get to replace a Supreme Court Justice…

  • sillylittleme : Miles, in that order?

  • Miles Long : The real one is that he’s Black, he successfully got the ACA passed, he’s a Democrat…

  • sillylittleme : Perry wants to be seen shooting infants at the border. he needs street cred…

  • AdLib : slm – That was the point of my parody post today, they don’t care about reasins, they just want to override democracy whenever a Repub isn’t elected. “Reasons? We don’t need no stinkin’ reasons!”

  • sillylittleme : ok miles name them

  • Miles Long : They have legions of reasons for impeachment, just none of them rational…

  • AdLib : Knowing Perry, he’s sent them to the Canadian border.

  • sillylittleme : what do you think? shouldn’t they come up with a reason first?

  • sillylittleme : no the conversation devolved somewhere along the line re: Perry and the border

  • AdLib : slm – Haven’t browsed through tonight’s vox yet, did you discuss the possible impeachment of Obama?

  • AdLib : A very kind compliment, thanks slm!

  • sillylittleme : so do you write for the Onion? yyou should

  • AdLib : slm – I often write parodies about Repubs but it gets harder and harder as they turn out to be more ridiculous than I wrote about them.

  • sillylittleme : well lately they are caricatures of real imaginary made up people

  • AdLib : slm – If it’s pretty silly…and about Republicans…it ‘s probably true but not always!

  • sillylittleme : so adlib does that mean I shouldn’t take anything you say seriously?

  • sillylittleme : night kes

  • AdLib : Will pass them along, Kes! Thanks!

  • kesmarn : My pleasure! And kudos to Little Lib.

  • AdLib : Night Kes, thanks again for hosting tonight! Have a great weekend!

  • kesmarn : Well kids, as it’s going on 1 a.m. here in the heartland, I may have to call it a day as well. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.

  • AdLib : slm – Just joking, portraying them as they would be as softball parents.

  • kesmarn : The Breitbart approach to winning in softball,I see. Or maybe even Nixonian… Depending on their age.

  • sillylittleme : adlib, really? seems they have far too much time on their hands

  • AdLib : Night KT!

  • AdLib : Kes – The Tea Party parents have quietly infiltrated other teams as coaches and then try to keep them from playing.

  • sillylittleme : night KT

  • kesmarn : Good night, Homie! Hoping you have many more happily random encounters!

  • KillgoreTrout : Well good folks, Time for me to gently fade away, for the evening that is. Hope to see you on the music thread. Take care and remain forever young!

  • kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. When it comes right down to it, the league should be gerrymandered so that their team is — in the end — the ONLY team. Annihilate the opposition.

  • AdLib : KT – It’s very cool to hear, thanks for the props.

  • kesmarn : I know, SLM! When you actually try to nail them down on how things would actually work in their tax-free world, they can never come up with anything realistic.

  • AdLib : Kes – They claimed that their team shouldn’t ever have to get out.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not saying anything that’s not true!

  • sillylittleme : how do they think things get paid for? really these anti-tax people are too stupid for their own good.

  • AdLib : KT – Thanks for that, KT, really appreciate it.

  • kesmarn : And I would imagine a hit that drove other players on the team home would be kinda socialist.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, you have a real talent for satire, AND, you stay informed.

  • AdLib : Kes – They claimed my daughter was born in Kenya and not eligible to play.

  • kesmarn : What? No threats to impeach the manager?

  • AdLib : Kes – The Tea Party parents protested to shut down all softball if we didn’t cut the deficit.

  • sillylittleme : good for her!!

  • kesmarn : And yes, she’s a little slugger!

  • kesmarn : See what you can do when you get rid of the TeaParents?

  • AdLib : She’s quite a hitter.

  • kesmarn : Holy Moses! That’s fantastic!

  • AdLib : Kes, won 6-1, daughter went 2-3 with a triple and 3 RBIs.

  • sillylittleme : And here I thought it was psychedelicallly influenced…

  • KillgoreTrout : Kudos AD on another TWO satirical pieces. You reall should make up a resume and send it to Stewart and/or Colbert. Seriously!

  • kesmarn : Move over Jacques Pepin.

  • AdLib : Kes, tequila and Cheez-its!

  • kesmarn : So — did you win? I hafta ask.

  • kesmarn : Well that would explain a lot. That tequila overtone and all.

  • AdLib : KT – I was out and just got in!

  • AdLib : Kes, don’t tell Harleigh but I licked the whole pie.

  • KillgoreTrout : So Ad, have you been tagging along, or did you just decide to join us?

  • kesmarn : Harleigh kinda suspected that…

  • AdLib : Kes – Damn, I had my mouth set on that. I’ve been saving it for two months.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh Homie, that she was, and so in line with my own history. That’s what made it special.

  • kesmarn : Hey, AdLib! Sorry about the empty liquor cabinet. And Harleigh ate the pumpkin pie.

  • AdLib : What up, KT?

  • KillgoreTrout : Que pasa Ad?

  • kesmarn : I can understand that, KT. I would have put the book aside too. There’s nothing better than a real life history sitting right in front of you.

  • AdLib : Thanks so much Kes for hosting Vox tonight!

  • AdLib : Oh sure, I show up and everyone has to go to sleep.

  • KillgoreTrout : Actually kes, this wonderful little old lady kept talking to me and I put my book aside because I didn’t want to be rude. She was a real delight.

  • kesmarn : Well kids, whaddya think? On that upbeat note, should we wrap up tonight’s edition of Vox?

  • KillgoreTrout : Take care Harleigh. Don’t inhale too strongly. Those pumpkins can be killer!

  • Harleigh : Night all…

  • kesmarn : I hope that fart smelled like pumpkin pie, Harleigh! It was great seeing you tonight. Catch you next week!

  • sillylittleme : night harleigh

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s great Homie. It really restores one’s faith in the human race. If we went by the news only, we’d never have moments of joy.

  • kesmarn : I’m the same way. A real recluse by nature, but one thing I’ve discovered is that there are a lot of people out there who really yearn to be listened to. And I love listening.

  • Harleigh : well it’s after midnite here and I just heard a pumpkin fart. guess I’ll see you guys next week,,,, same bat time…

  • KillgoreTrout : Kes, I han’t thought of it that way, but I think you’re on to something. Normally I’m a very private person and don’t necessarily want to talk with people I don’t know. But lately, I have opened myself up to such encounters. And I’m oh so glad I have.

  • kesmarn : I hear you! I was doing my perimeter walk around the park yesterday and this black lady was walking the same path only in the opposite direction. Every time we’d meet, she’d stop and talk. Before the walk was over I knew all about her life. Made it a lot more fun to get that exercise done.

  • Harleigh : awesome kt

  • KillgoreTrout : Hareigh and kes. It was wondeful. There was actually another gentleman there that had also grown up where I had. The three of us had a great conversation about the old town we were so familiar with. Kes, I guess we really are are pleasantly surprised by others, if we just open up even a little.

  • Harleigh : guess that the laundromat didn’t have wi-fi huh?

  • kesmarn : And have you ever noticed that all it takes is bringing a book into a public space? It seems that a lot of folks feel that having a book with you means you’re looking for conversation. :lol:

  • sillylittleme : kt, that makes life all the more worthwhile….

  • kesmarn : Homie, that is awesome. When you least expect it, the most amazing things can happen. Like your evening thunderstorm encounter. Guess it’s just a matter of staying open to those sorts of things.

  • Harleigh : cool KT

  • Harleigh : LOL

  • KillgoreTrout : I had a very uplifting experience today! I went to the local laundramat to do my clothes and there was this very tiny, very old black lady doing her clothes. I put my stuff in the washer, with detergent and all, and sat down to read a book, while I waited. This wonderful, cute old lady started talking to me. About laundry at first, then she mentioned where she was from. Turns out, she was from my hometown, 300 miles to the east of where we were at the time. Turns out, her husband and my father worked at the very same steel mill and had the very same jobs. Crane operators. Her husband, and my father worked at the same place for over thirty years. I was very happy to talk further with this very adorable elderly lady. Turns out, she is the same age as my mother. It was wonderful talking to her. I was just going down to do my laundry, and had a wonderful experience, out of the blue! Ain’t life grand?

  • kesmarn : I’m not sure that’s legal, Harleigh… :-)

  • Harleigh : The next move I have will start with a can of gas and a torch. LOL

  • sillylittleme : night funk

  • kesmarn : G’night, funk! Moving is no fun — until you’re in the gorgeous new mansion, that is.

  • funksands : Good perspective. Night all!

  • Harleigh : at least i’m workin funk

  • kesmarn : I love the Krusty Krab, funk! (Hope it’s still there! :-()

  • funksands : Night Harleigh. New job still treating you okay?

  • Harleigh : nite sue

  • kesmarn : G’night, BFF! So glad you made it here tonight!

  • funksands : Folks, I can’t stay long. I’m in the middle of moving, and am beeeeet. I’ll be around more in a week or so. Have a good weekend. Night Sue

  • sillylittleme : night sue

  • SueInCa : Well peeps it is still 89 degrees in my studio so I am going to go sit in front of the fan. Everyone have a good night. Air conditioning is next on our home improvement list. We don’t have many hot days but we cannot take the heat anymore. Night all

  • sillylittleme : Love the pay toilet!!

  • funksands : Kes, its an amazing image isn’t it?

  • kesmarn : funk, that story on the Chinese boy was amazing. The photo of the bowing doctors was incredible. If only because that is the only time I’ve ever seen — not only one humble surgeon — but a bunch of them.

  • Harleigh : Funkie – thanks!

  • funksands : «link»

  • funksands : Here’s some good news from Palestine

  • funksands : (That was probably too soon. Very sorry)

  • funksands : When I win the lotto, each of you will receive your own West Bank settlement kit.

  • KillgoreTrout : Good for you Homie. Wait a while and then come back.

  • funksands : Each fence has to be made out of balloon animals

  • kesmarn : Homie, they don’t know how poverty-stricken I am. I took the $10 and ran.

  • funksands : Oops: I mean this «link»

  • funksands : This is pretty damn awesome

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, that’s so you will go out and buy more scatch-offs in hope of winning even more. It’s the standard scheme born right out of Vegas.

  • kesmarn : A barbed wire fashion statement, funk? A new take on “Barbie Dolls.”

  • kesmarn : I won the lottery too. Except it was a $10 scratch-off ticket… :-(

  • Harleigh : nukes would be ok… come on back in about 10,000 years.

  • funksands : It has to be a ridiculous-looki ng fence too. So everyone laughs when you walk around in it.

  • kesmarn : That’s uplifting!

  • funksands : A Sandy hurricane family won the lottery!

  • kesmarn : Gives a whole new meaning to the term “de fence” funk.

  • sillylittleme : funk, now that’s a solution that could work…

  • SueInCa : lol KT nope

  • KillgoreTrout : Anything uplifting happen in the last week or so?

  • funksands : Everyone in Israel and Gaza and the West Bank need to have their own personal fence around their own bodies. Then everyone can get along

  • sillylittleme : kes, the kids should just say no.

  • SueInCa : Night Murph

  • Harleigh : nite murph

  • kesmarn : G’night, Murph! Don’t work too hard!

  • SueInCa : And yes that was against my war stance but if they want to have their own arageddon, let them have at it. My guess is they will be standing all alone in that valley they claim it will be held in

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, I don’t quite understand that people are just people. There are some twisted mofos among us.

  • kesmarn : What baffles me — on the “human shields” charge — is how it’s possible to even GET kids out of harm’s way when you have 1.8 million people crammed into a small area. There’s nowhere for them to go.

  • funksands : Yes, Murph, I am aware that Hamas may be doing that. Or not. I’m not a Hamas supporter. To be honest trying to unravel the political argument necessary for long term solutions is nearly impossible. Too much history, too much context. A hard divorce is the only thing that will work.

  • sillylittleme : night murph

  • SueInCa : I say send them to Israel, put a fence around them and the Israelis who agree with their heresy and let them amrageddon themselves to hell.

  • sillylittleme : All, my opinion is that if someone wants to bring an end to humanity we shouldn’t sit down and shut up about it. I want to live for however long I have. People are just people.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well folks I just awoke from a flash nap….I cannot last any longer. To bed.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sue, it pisses me off too. But let them get this over with. They might save countless future lives. They might actually prosper as human beings are supposed to.

  • SueInCa : wink wink wink Funk

  • SueInCa : I have bookmarked it for later reading, thanks

  • funksands : Sue to be fair, the head of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews does say the money is for all peoples in Israel for all needs. (wink)

  • kesmarn : You did just fine, SLM! That looks like an amazing book. I hadn’t heard of it before.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, that’s because these crazy fucks wan armaggedon. They want that final, earth killing battle. They are stone cold, fuck nuts!

  • SueInCa : You did SLM

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- here is the thing, I think a case can be made that Hamas is putting those kids forward- as both shields and as symbolic martyrs….

  • SueInCa : KT I am so war weary from wars I never supported in the first place and I tend to agree with Funk when the kids are dying, it pisses me off even more

  • sillylittleme : I don’;t think I did that right…. oy vey

  • sillylittleme : «link»

  • kesmarn : Thanks again, funk!

  • funksands : SLM, just copy the IRL and paste it in the comment box. It shows up as a link automatically

  • SueInCa : Thanks Funk

  • KillgoreTrout : You’re right SUE. War does not settle anything. Cold or hot.

  • kesmarn : Thanks, funk!

  • funksands : I have a odd tendency to side with the side with the most dead kids. Its a weakness

  • sillylittleme : how do I put in a link?

  • SueInCa : 100 million? WTF? And they cannot provide for our own poor here?

  • kesmarn : «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s like gabg warfare. Nobody who is innocent is protected. The true horror is that innocent children and adults get slaughtered just because of where they live. ENOUGH!

  • funksands : «link»

  • kesmarn : funk posted a link to a brilliant You Tube vid that sums up the frustrations of the ME. I’ll try to find it.

  • SueInCa : KT that is why I say war does not settle anything and quite frankly the fire power is very uneven

  • Harleigh : SLM if you want to do that then they all have to go back to RA, jews, xtians, muslims et al.

  • funksands : Almost $100 million a year in private dollars comes from US evangelicals to support and fund the Israeli settlers

  • pinkpantheroz : With you on that, KT!

  • kesmarn : I hadn’t heard of it either, Sue.

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, there is no telling anything to either side. They are both wrong. They are both anti-humanitaria nism. FUCK THEM BOTH!

  • SueInCa : Kes, this is the first I have heard of from SLM, you can bet I will be looking

  • kesmarn : I think to the rest of the world, they’re looking very bad, Sue.

  • sillylittleme : Sue, if we could look at all the world’s religions side by side (since the beginning of time) we’d find the same story. this person good, this person bad. kill, kill, kill

  • Harleigh : Murph I have a friend here that was a Ukrainian and was a LT in the russian army before the empire collapsed. he got out and went to work at chrysler in detroit and thought it was better than Ukraine. LOL

  • SueInCa : I agree Kes, the final solution Oped among other things, this week has been disastrous for Israel.

  • kesmarn : Sue, are there Christian fundie settlements in the ME?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…SLM’s point is valid…we are talking about religious, ethnic and tribal loyalties and animosities that thousands of years old.

  • SueInCa : Figures like the Rabbi said, “Their ActV does not end well for us”

  • sillylittleme : KT, tell that to them…

  • sillylittleme : Sue, American evangelicals are finding wrong-wing nuts from among the world’s Jews who they encourage to settle

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, that is so meaningless in today’s world.

  • SueInCa : There are plenty of us upset, Harleigh. I know I am war is not the way to settle differences

  • kesmarn : And even as it is, Harleigh. I think this past week has been a public relations disaster for Israel.

  • KillgoreTrout : How about the order given in regards to the villagers in My Lai?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh…you mean like in the Ukraine?

  • sillylittleme : KT since Sarai made Avram banish Hagar…

  • Harleigh : If Israel was killing anyone besides muslims then the world might get upset.

  • SueInCa : I know Murph that is why my dad left the service

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, despite what order is given?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue…as a naval captain, my dad would not be able to say that….you may not like the order, but you take them and do your best.

  • SueInCa : Hey SLM I wouled be more interested in hearing about those settlements built by evangelicals.

  • kesmarn : PPO, I’ve actually thought of those words, too!

  • funksands : Damn Ottomans

  • sillylittleme : Pink, Bibi is a Bully

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- most of the Middle East is made up of false states with lines drawn by everyone from the Ottomans, to the Europeans and Americans, to modern Muslims and Jews, to the folks behind the Islamic State movement.

  • kesmarn : That’s true. You did.

  • funksands : I already have. I have decreed that S. Dakota be set aside for the Palestinians for perpetuity

  • SueInCa : Murph my dad, on the other hand, did not want his boys to be sacrificed for a war we never should have started. When you have to lie(Gulf of Tonkin) to get the american people with you, you are doing wrong

  • KillgoreTrout : I am totally sick of this situation involving the Palestinians and the Israelis. How long have thes idiots been at each other’s throats? If people are not smart enough to know that peace is the only solution, then fuck them! Let the annihalate each other. I am beyond caring, at this point in time.

  • pinkpantheroz : Kes: ‘Mr Netanwhatever you’recalled, tear down this wall”!

  • sillylittleme : hi funk

  • kesmarn : Wait, funk! You were supposed to supply the solutions on this one!!

  • sillylittleme : Sue the Gaza Strip and the West Bank

  • Harleigh : We have sent so many people there to talk a pece settlement and they always report back that it was like talking to a fuckin wall… yuk yuk

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, Funk!

  • funksands : Oh, good Isreal and Palestine, uh….gotta go check the oven

  • sillylittleme : Harleigh, KT the real problem is the evangelicals building settlements for willing Jews to be front and center for Armageddon. Religion indeed!!

  • pinkpantheroz : Yes, Murph, but it doesn’t help that Israel was an artificial State plonked into the Palestine without so much as a ‘by your leave’ to the Palestinians.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SLM..yeah, I thught o.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Funk!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue..oddly my Dad was opposed to the war as well as the wrong war in the wrong place being fought the wrong way…still he did not like my shrugging my duty.

  • kesmarn : And yet, there’s this hideous wall… And the Palestinians trapped in there with no exits. It’s really awful.

  • SueInCa : Hey Funk

  • funksands : Hi everyone

  • SueInCa : hich land was set aside for the Palestinians?

  • sillylittleme : Murph, I read your post so wrong!!!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SLM…precisely. …Hamas can NEVER acknowledge the right of the Israeli state to exist or of Jews to have a homeland. At least Israel has acknowledged the legitimacy of the Palestinian deire for a homeland.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ah Hareigh, ther-in lies the dangers of religion.

  • kesmarn : I wouldn’t want to be in Kerry’s shoes right now. There’s enough diplomatic work to keep 10 people busy.

  • SueInCa : Murph my brother and I both were raised in a home that was against the war. My dad saw the horror in WWII and that finished it for him

  • sillylittleme : Sue peace settlement. The Sinai went to Egypt, some land was set aside for the Palestinians and the Golan Heights are still in contention.

  • Harleigh : It has devolve into an aparthied situation and will never be a 2 state solution if the clerics and rabi’s can help it.

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, the leaders would not be the leaders without the people’s support. Both nations are democracies.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- a very difficult decision that I jumped into because of an experience in a protest…impuls ive but I am glad I did it.

  • sillylittleme : Murph??? Where are the Jews to go? At least the Palestinians could go to Egypt or Lebanon…

  • kesmarn : Yes, SLM! I have good Muslim friends. And then just this past weekend I spent a couple of days with a Jewish family in NY that I know. And they were so warm, funny, lovely, welcoming. It’s mind-boggling.

  • SueInCa : Oh Murph I should have known, my brother was one.

  • SueInCa : SLM why would they give it back?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue-Conscientiou s Objector

  • sillylittleme : KT, it is the leaders not the people…

  • SueInCa : Yes, Murph what is CO I got distracted

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- did you see my CO response.

  • Harleigh : aaahhh the sounds of rocket fir in the evenings….

  • KillgoreTrout : Homie, I don’t know what can be added to the Gaza situation. Murder is murder, no matter what side one may be on. I call it murder because the “causes,” on both sides are simply wrong. Harmony seems to ever elude these people.

  • sillylittleme : Sue, technically they had all of that land that they won and gave back. I think it was ’67???

  • kesmarn : Dark humor, I know, but it’s a dark situation…

  • SueInCa : Was it that pink one, Harleigh? I saw it got bombed today lol

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….Gaza…ra dical Muslims, bottom line….Hamas- Israel and Jew have to go.

  • Harleigh : boom!

  • kesmarn : Handy man’s special, Harleigh?

  • Harleigh : Kesman I got 4 acres set aside in gaza with a 20 story High-rise mixed use building…. needs some work and touchups.

  • SueInCa : Israel plans to own all of the territory at the end of this.

  • kesmarn : I know. There just seems to be no end in sight. If anything it’s getting worse by the day.

  • KillgoreTrout : Harleigh, the Dead, if nothing else, were prophetic. A long strange trip indeed! To tell you the truth, I wouldn’t trade a minute of it for the businessman’s world.

  • sillylittleme : mess

  • sillylittleme : Kes, Gaza will be a mes for another 5000 years. This goes deep. Sad really.

  • kesmarn : Well, gang — should we even get started on Gaza? Or is that too much for a Friday night?

  • Harleigh : KT and like they say… what a long strange trip it’s been to quote Jerry Garcia.

  • SueInCa : My college professor for Admin of Justice was the lead investigator on the case for the Sheriff. He told me “I never would have thought you would date him” lol

  • KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams Monica. Glad you could join us!

  • Miles Long : G’nite, monica…

  • Harleigh : night monica

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Goodnight Glenn and Monica…next week…..

  • kesmarn : G’night, Monica! Great seeing you here!

  • SueInCa : Night Monica have a good weekend

  • sillylittleme : night monica

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- I was a CO in college years. I took the college deferment initially and then rejected it…..stating that I wanted to be included in the lottery and that I would not serve if drafted….my dad was a navy officer and not happy with me over this.

  • Harleigh : OMG Sue

  • sillylittleme : sorry sue, how awful

  • monicaangela : Good Night all, I’ve enjoyed Vox-populi…see you next week. :)

  • SueInCa : Here you go, Kes. «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Harleigh, never be down on yourself. You were just experiencing life.

  • kesmarn : Oh, I see Sue. God, that’s awful…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- not me.

  • SueInCa : No he tried to leave the Hells Angels and they murdered the whole family and then set the house on fire.

  • kesmarn : Wow…Sue! Was it the long-haired hippy look that caused the violence?

  • SueInCa : Which did you serve in Murph?

  • KillgoreTrout : The way I saw it, the officers were suppode to have the knowledge not only to keep the troops in line, but the tactical field knowledge to lead those troops into real combat. Those above catain and major were supposed to have the entire picture. That rarely happens, and it’s the “troops,” that face the fire and lose their lives. Same as it ever was.

  • SueInCa : Nope, Harliegh but he was murdered by the Hells Angels

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue: The Texas A&M University Corps of Cadets (often The Fightin’ Texas Aggie Corps of Cadets, The Corps of Cadets, or simply the Corps) is a student military organization at Texas A&M University. Established with the University in 1876, it is the oldest student organization on campus. Approximately 42 percent of the members of the Cadet Corps receive a commission in the United States Armed Forces upon graduation which included the Army, Air Force, Marines, and Navy

  • Miles Long : Nite, glenn…

  • Harleigh : Sue – my van was for partying and saved tons on motel rooms and didn’t have to wake up with them in the morning! I was kind of a dirtbag back then… white collar computers, but kinda bad.

  • SueInCa : No prob, have a great weekend

  • glenn : Sorry, Sue, I live in a different time zone.

  • monicaangela : Good night glenn.

  • SueInCa : Night glenn, I just got here, :-(

  • sillylittleme : night glenn

  • kesmarn : G’night, glenn! Have a great weekend!

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, LOL!! Tell me, what exactly did you see? :)

  • glenn : Okay, folks, time for me to call it a night. As usual, good chatting with all of you. I’ll see you around the Planet. Hope you all have a great weekend!

  • sillylittleme : Harleigh, I doubt any one has the same or similar experience. It’s all about attitude IMO.

  • SueInCa : Are you talking about the Marine Corp, Murph?

  • KillgoreTrout : Yeah right, Murph.

  • kesmarn : Did you win, Harleigh? :lol:

  • Harleigh : Monica I have ‘experimented’ with acid and it resulted in my class action lawsuit againts all my old dealers! I didn’t see colors OR god. They fuckin lied! LMAO

  • KillgoreTrout : Yes slm, they get second louie.

  • SueInCa : Actually Harleigh I had a boyfriend with an older Chevy van and he was the nicest guy in our class, very respectful all the while with long hair and a beard. He looked like Ted Neely

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT And at T A and M, the corp is where you get connected, establish your lifetime “bro’s” and LEAD the university to its destiny

  • kesmarn : One substance that does scare the hell out of me is meth. Saw too many patients who were really messed up on that one.

  • sillylittleme : Monica, would that make him a robot?

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, for sure Monica. But in those case, the whole set and setting was horrifying. When one does powerful hallucinogens, set and setting are paramount.

  • monicaangela : Kes…LOL !!!

  • pinkpantheroz : SLM – explains a lot, doesn’t it!

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, LOL !! I suspected as much. I had this crazy suspicion that maybe he might have a reverse view in there, you know sort of like a teleprompter that could help him answer questions. :)

  • sillylittleme : KT, and don’t they get officer status at graduation?

  • SueInCa : I don’t partake of anything except weed once in awhile now days, I would have a heart attack on anything else

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I think ROTC is a cop out. It’s bullshit because many of those who join the “program,” only do it for credit. They know nothing about real soldiering.

  • Harleigh : sue – sounds like a Friday night in my cheveyvan in the 80’s.

  • sillylittleme : No pills. Just Aleve. Don’t like coke.

  • monicaangela : KT, LSD is a mind altering substance,I like to say mind enhancing substance and was used on many unsuspecting Americans by the CIA. The hippies and other counterculture movements weren’t the only groups to experiment with mind-altering substances. Starting in 1953, the Central Intelligence Agency conducted research on psychedelic drugs as part of a top-secret behavior modification program codenamed MKULTRA.

  • kesmarn : This all makes my Percocet seem positively tame… ;-)

  • SueInCa : No shrooms but coke, ganja, mescaline, some downers and some uppers lol

  • KillgoreTrout : Perry could appear in collegigiate robes and cap, but that still wouldn’t hide the fact that he is even dumber than W.

  • glenn : Sue–oops. This new laptop’s keyboard takes some getting used to.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kt..The Corp at Texas A and M has a “long and glorious history” supposedly and is their ROTC.

  • sillylittleme : KT/Sue, I’ve done both, shrooms too. Still haven’t got to peyote. On my bucket list…

  • SueInCa : LOL they are two of a kind, Glenn but I think Gohmert is worse, he is vindictive, Perry is just stupid

  • Harleigh : Monica Perry actually thinks the glasses are A disguise like the old Superman TV show with George Reeves. Nobody will ever recognize me in glasses.

  • KillgoreTrout : Glad you remember Murph. I’m not crying the blues here, just relating a little life experience.

  • SueInCa : So we are telling our deep dark secrets, Glenn?

  • glenn : Sue–we’re trying to figure out if Perry’s glasses are wired with gohmert giving him things to say.

  • Miles Long : The story is that Perry’s wife caught him with a male member of his staff. «link»

  • kesmarn : We’re all over the place tonight, Sue. But Rick Perry and his sexual preferences mostly… :-D

  • sillylittleme : Sue, LSD, martinis, Rick Perry, stupid repubs

  • glenn : Sue–we

  • SueInCa : KT I did mescaline, not quite the same but similar

  • SueInCa : so what is the topic?

  • monicaangela : Is that why he suddenly appeared in eyeglasses…is it a part of the search for that long lost love?

  • kesmarn : 97! No thanks!

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh monica, I had taken a lot of LSD before I got busted. To this day, I’m glad of it. I’ve seen perceptions that no non-taking person could every realize.

  • Harleigh : hi sue!

  • SueInCa : honey it was 97 here today, we are usually around 83

  • MurphTheSurf3 : hi there sue

  • kesmarn : Were you in the area that got up near 100, Sue?

  • Harleigh : Monica I believe that Perry was being blackmailed by a real purty sheep. She was a loving ewe and disappeared. true.

  • SueInCa : certainly not chicken in the oven KT

  • glenn : Hi Sue

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kt I remember your story well

  • SueInCa : Pretty well it is getting cooler finally

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue! What’s shakin?

  • monicaangela : Hello Sue !

  • kesmarn : Hey, BFF! How’s your Friday evening going?

  • sillylittleme : hey sue

  • monicaangela : KT, had you taken any of the LSD before they busted you? Think, because this is important. :)

  • SueInCa : Hello Everyone

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, some “choice,” indeed. Although, technically, it was a choice.

  • sillylittleme : Wow KT, some choice…

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, you can say that again…the livestock must be more intelligent than the politicians. :)

  • KillgoreTrout : Yes Murph. I got busted for LSD and I had a choice. The Marines, or five years in prison. This was during the Vietnam war. I figured I’d rather be shot at than get buggered by Bubba!

  • kesmarn : Possibly SLM. Either that or Big Oil wants to mellow out the voters a bit before November.

  • Harleigh : Monica it is mind boogeling.

  • sillylittleme : Kes, maybe we are driving more efficient cars…

  • monicaangela : slm, it’s not funny, I really want to know. :)

  • kesmarn : Right, Homie. And the day after Cantor was upset, he didn’t seem to have a clue. I think he’s losing it.

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, makes you wonder just how dumbed down those that continue to vote for the politicians that are denying them the benefits they are provided by law.

  • KillgoreTrout : Homie, I think you’re right. He said something about the nasty things he did with his pals and farm animals. He actually said this.

  • kesmarn : Murph, they must be up to something. Always in the past, when the ME has been in flames, gas prices have gone up…

  • Harleigh : Murph I think Obama has that gas price dial on his desk right next to the nuke box/button.

  • sillylittleme : Monica, I’m still laughing!!!!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT….you were in the Marine Corps….hardly ANY of those at T and M go into the real military and few of them saw combat.

  • kesmarn : Harleigh, somehow that doesn’t surprise me.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….FLASH ANNOUNCEMENT…. Gas prices here in Missouri are now less than $3.20 a gallon. The GOP dominated state legislatures have passed a resolution thanking the President for his leadership in this….ok I am delusional, but it is the flip side of the coin is it not….higher prices are Obama’s fault so.

  • kesmarn : PPO, he must have learned from Cochran in Mississippi. Wasn’t he the one who was bragging about his “animal husbandry” skills?

  • Harleigh : I am a licensed health and life agent in 20 states. TX is the worst off those poor people.We sell lots of limited benefit and short term medical plans because that all they can afford. Women ther have to go on Medicaid if they get pregnant. It ends 30 days after the baby is born.

  • monicaangela : PPO LOL !! How did that Bull convince him to bend over. :)

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I was in the Corps too.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, guess Perry got a C Average in animal husbandry because they caught him at it!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…it is the same person…

  • kesmarn : glenn, that explains it. Gohmert is the one prompting Perry through the wire.

  • monicaangela : Murph, why do you think Perry is putting those troops there in the first place…civil rights violations and deadly encounters…wha t else could would he want them there for surely you don’t believe he was thinking of compassion for the children.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…Texas A and M, but he was in the Corps, jar head city, and that major was one of their soft option.

  • glenn : BRB

  • kesmarn : Murph, this is coming from the same person who claims the Prez acts like a dictator? Perry has his own army now?

  • KillgoreTrout : Ha! Professor Perry! He graduated with a C average in…wait for it…animal husbandry! Texas, where men are men and the sheep are scared! ;)

  • glenn : Kes–As you say, if they are wired, it must be gohmert whispering the responses, because I haven’t heard anything intelligent from perry either–before or after the glasses.

  • sillylittleme : kes, just like W’s earpiece…

  • monicaangela : Spot on Kes…Who needs doctors and nurses when you can bite the bullet and take it like a man. :)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL..an interesting tidbit….HOUSTO N — When Gov. Rick Perry of Texas announced plans to deploy 1,000 National Guard troops to help with the border crisis, it came with a power unexpected by some. By deploying them himself rather than through Washington, he has the power to order the troops to make arrests and apprehensions, something Guard troops in past border deployments have been prohibited from doing. Immigrant rights advocates and others, including former federal officials involved in previous National Guard mobilizations, said the troops would lack both training and federal oversight, creating a risk of civil rights violations and deadly encounters with immigrants.

  • kesmarn : glenn, maybe those glasses are wired with an ear piece so that someone can whisper sane responses to him now and then. Although I haven’t heard one yet.

  • KillgoreTrout : Perry, like Palin, is just a money making source for the RNC. That’s all they are.

  • glenn : SLM–I can’t believe you don’t like the glasses. They add such a touch of “class(lessness ).

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, LOL!! You are so right about the fire tears. Perry is definitely a clown. How did he ever become governor of Texas. Who was governor before him. LOL !!!

  • sillylittleme : KT, can we at least stuff them with blue cheese?

  • kesmarn : monica, right. Health care is not macho. A REAL MAN’s health care is a fifth of Jack Daniels and a bullet to bite.

  • sillylittleme : glenn – – those glasses are creepy…

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh no slm. Just the olives. They soak up the gin nicely.

  • glenn : Kes and SLM–money to put on a show, but no money for health care. Although, I think eyeglasses are being given out for free so you can at least look intelligent…or think you do.

  • Harleigh : I think Perry is just flat assed daft. He fired all the firefighters a couple years ago and wad beggin for money and help when Texas caught fire. HELLO!

  • monicaangela : Kes, who needs health care for the citizens of Texas…How can you look Macho providing help for the people?

  • kesmarn : Murph, that’s what I hear. They have no powers of arrest. Basically window dressing. Expensive window dressing.

  • kesmarn : SLM, apparently it will be the State of Texas. No money for health care, however…

  • sillylittleme : KT, lots of olive juice!!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- Perry’s gesture to the right wing and nothing more. NG cannot arrest or detain. They have specific mission mandates and border patrol i not one of them.

  • monicaangela : Okay KT, Martini’s for you next week, olives definitely included. :)

  • kesmarn : Comedy Central — move over! Harleigh is in the house.

  • sillylittleme : kes, who will pay for the border patrol?

  • Harleigh : Sarah speaks through a Salad Shooter into a Mr. Microphone. No translation device exists or is planned.

  • KillgoreTrout : No doubt about it Monica. OK, maybe a drop of dry Vermouth. Olives are not optional.

  • kesmarn : Are they going to be anything other than props?

  • kesmarn : So — how about 1/2 brain Perry and his plan to put 1000 Texas lawmen on the border?

  • glenn : Harleigh–you really are on a roll tonight! What are you drinking or smoking? I think I want some!

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, they don’t call it angel’s breath for nothing.

  • monicaangela : KT, I’ll follow your recipe and bring some for you next week…Are you sure that’s the right recipe? :)

  • glenn : Kes–regarding the IQs–I doubt it.

  • kesmarn : “How Dry I Am!

  • sillylittleme : I’m with Kes on the brain(s), or lack there of…

  • KillgoreTrout : Monica, Martinis are easy. You pour 5 parts gin, and wish there were some Vermouth! Add olives and serve!

  • Harleigh : LOL kes

  • monicaangela : Harleigh: Laughing out loud regarding the Siamese twins, I guess neither got a brain. :)

  • kesmarn : I refuse to belief there’s an entire half brain in either one of those heads, Harleigh! I’m sorry.

  • Harleigh : Few folks know that Perry and Gohmert were Siamese twins conjoined at the haid. true. They were separated at birth and each got half a brain…. Perry got all the hair.

  • monicaangela : Glenn, I’m so glad you didn’t say Martini’s, I wouldn’t begin to know how to prepare a Martrini. I can help you with the rest though. :)

  • KillgoreTrout : I think of Torquemada!

  • sillylittleme : oh kt yum!!

  • kesmarn : glenn, if you added their IQs together, would you break double digits?

  • glenn : Kes–OMG, say it ain’t so! Not gomer and bachmann!

  • KillgoreTrout : Some prefer a little 12 year old single malt scotch! True sippin whiskey!

  • sillylittleme : dirty martini for me, the cloudier the better.

  • kesmarn : Now THERE would be a 2016 ticket!

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, Gohmert and Bachmann are crazy even if they don’t believe their own bullshit. :)

  • kesmarn : Referring to the stone crushing, that is.

  • glenn : Monica–chips and salsa and maybe a little guac. Unsweetened iced tea for a drink, but most other VOXers prefer martinis.

  • kesmarn : Sometimes the human imagination can dream up some nasty stuff, KT!

  • KillgoreTrout : I try Homie! :cool:

  • Harleigh : glen – people like Bachmann and Gohmert etc really are crazy if they believe their own bullshit.

  • KillgoreTrout : Yes slm. They added stone after stone until the woman was literally crushed to death. Slow and agonizing.

  • kesmarn : Harleigh and KT, you two are hilarious tonight!

  • sillylittleme : Harleigh, keep the laughs coming…

  • monicaangela : KT…LOL !! I know you are correct. :)

  • sillylittleme : glenn, it makes me laugh and be outraged at the same time. best of both worlds…

  • Harleigh : In other tragic news 3 baggers in a new Lexus drove off a cliff. It’s a shame because a Lexus has 4 seats.

  • monicaangela : Glenn, what’s your favorite refreshment?

  • glenn : Harleigh–LOL on the Bachmann description.

  • KillgoreTrout : Both Monica. It’s all the same to those types.

  • glenn : SLM–Not so sure I’m glad that some repubs speak. Yes, we get to hear their koo koo stuff, but I personally, could do without it.

  • monicaangela : Hey Glenn, I believe that could probably work, although I don’t think the smile would mean much to the poor witches. I’m sure they would take it as sarcasm rather than politeness.

  • sillylittleme : KT, that was stone on top on a sandwiched person, between two slabs.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar! Tell that to Rush Limpballs!

  • glenn : Monica–okay, holding you to that refreshment bit next week. :)

  • kesmarn : I hear you, ladies! I’m a little worried about the 21st century. Especially when I read about the plans ISIS has for women. [[shudder]]

  • KillgoreTrout : Suspected witches were also crushed to death. The puritan assholes would pile large stones on their bodies, on at a time, with a few minutes interval. Slowly crushing them to death. Does it get any more horrific than that?

  • monicaangela : KT..Serious yes, in their hearts maybe, in their heads more likely.

  • sillylittleme : Kes, back in really ancient times the phallus was worshipped and women ran the world. We need to do that again…

  • glenn : Kes–after all, Freud was a male. And most males (except those here on VOX and the planet) think with their little heads instead of their big ones.

  • Harleigh : I like how Bachmann schreeches and then that little cuckoo bird pops out of her haid and announces the wrong time.

  • monicaangela : Glenn: I didn’t realize bringing refreshments was a requirement. Now that I am here I’m afraid I don’t have time to get any. Maybe next time. :)

  • sillylittleme : Glenn, just glad they speak. Most of them say very little of merit. And don’t realize how koo koo they sound.

  • kesmarn : So all that stuff about “penis envy,” Homie — maybe Freud was on the wrong track…

  • glenn : Monica–both. That way, both sides think you’re being polite to them. Kinda like repubs who speak out of both sides of their mouths.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh no Monica. not in their hearts. They were very serious. Misguided, but very serious.

  • monicaangela : Harleigh..LOL!!! !

  • KillgoreTrout : Absolutely Homie. It made, and still makes some males feel totally powerless.

  • monicaangela : KT you mean liberal MA Puritans were superficial?

  • Harleigh : Monica anything for you dear. I’ll call my sister in New Bedford and see what we can do. LMAO

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn: status quo. One cancelled the other. When the panel finding from DC is appealed, the full court, sitting en banc, will overturn its ruling.

  • monicaangela : Glenn, who would you be smiling at the crowd or the witches?

  • KillgoreTrout : Monica, they are polite on the outside only.

  • kesmarn : Homie, I suppose that “creation” part was the scariest element, no?

  • glenn : Monica–I think you burn witches politely with a smile on your face.

  • sillylittleme : Kes, we are sisters in spirit!!

  • monicaangela : Harleigh..that’ s the problem then, I’ve never met a polite MA liberal Pruitan. Can you introduce me to one? :)

  • KillgoreTrout : Well kes, the bible gives that talking snake a pass and blames it all on the woman! How backward can people be? Woman is creation, not destruction.

  • kesmarn : Well, us “free spirits” are, anyway! ;-)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…some of those witches even wanted the vote…demonic possession I tell you…what is next….holding office…voodoo

  • sillylittleme : Kes, yes we are evil incarnate. Bwahahahahahahah a…

  • Harleigh : Monica I guess you’d hAve to ask a polite MA liberal Puritan. LOL

  • glenn : Murph–so what’s the deal on the ACA subsidies? What happens now with two different courts ruling in opposite ways?

  • monicaangela : Harleigh, I read a lot, converse a lot and take interest in just about every topic I can. I guess that’s how. :)

  • kesmarn : Sigh… When a woman gets too uppity it can only be because Satan is whispering in her ear, no SLM?

  • KillgoreTrout : Those blamed for being witches, were actually women who had ingested certain botanicals and were witnessesd being free from the strictures of the times.

  • sillylittleme : Kes, all true. They were targeted by a family who wanted to develop the land…

  • glenn : Monica–did you happen to bring any refreshments? Those are important too.

  • monicaangela : Hey Harleigh..How do you politely burn a witch?

  • Harleigh : Monica – I remember the old days on HP and now here…. where do you come up with your vast knowledge and info on just about everything? LOL You’re like our own think tank.8-))

  • kesmarn : SLM, I’ve read that too. That if a woman owned quite a bit of property… Funny thing! … She began to look more and more witchy!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : monica..I use the two screen method. I open up one page with the comments showing and one with and expanded comments box. You can follow on one and reply on the other.

  • glenn : Monica–we give out lots of fingers here on VOX–especially to the repubs!

  • sillylittleme : Good Monica, then can you type for the rest of us? LOL!!!

  • KillgoreTrout : VOX IS like playing an instrument.

  • kesmarn : There you go.

  • monicaangela : Murph and Kes, if fingers are all that is needed, I think I’m going to be okay. :)

  • kesmarn : Indeed!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….jinx deux

  • KillgoreTrout : Harleigh, have you ever visited the witch museum in Salem? They were pretty nasty toward those gals.

  • sillylittleme : Harleigh it was a land grab. Women were given equal weight in those days. They targeted midwives,

  • kesmarn : Jinx!

  • kesmarn : You’ll do great, monica! Get your typing fingers in high gear though!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Monica- you are quick, sharp, and informed…all that can stop you is fingers that fail to perform.

  • monicaangela : Hi sillylittleme

  • monicaangela : Hello Murph…I don’t know what a natural is under these circumstances, but I’ll do my best. :)

  • KillgoreTrout : Well M, it kind of varies from moment to moment. VOX is high speed! :lol:

  • kesmarn : We’re talking about third parties and the wisdom of voting for them, monica, and also the latest progressive developments in Massachusetts.

  • sillylittleme : hi m and m

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Monica…glad to have you hear. I suspect you will be a natural.

  • monicaangela : Hi Glenn !!

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, the wind farm is still a subject of contention among those living near. It is the sensible thing though, in the long run.

  • monicaangela : Hey KT, I finally found the opportunity to be able to join this thread. I’m excited. What’s the topic?

  • glenn : Hi Monica, Hi Miles

  • kesmarn : SLM, that is so wonderful!

  • Harleigh : KT they used to burn witches but I’m sure that they were very polite about it.

  • kesmarn : Sorry, meant “Miles” Serious typing issues tonight! :lol:

  • sillylittleme : Kes, that’s Market Basket. Nothing to speak of left on the shelves. The freezers are shut. No produce. Basically management with the backing of the majority of the employees are fighting back against the current CEO who ousted his cousin who had been running it smoothly.

  • kesmarn : Hey Mile! Love that Neil DeGrasse Tyson!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Monica! Nice to “see,” you here!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh…in my area I vote in the GOP primary to cast votes for what passes for moderation in the GOP because NO dem stands a chance here.

  • monicaangela : Harleigh: How are you this evening, good to see you here tonight.

  • glenn : KT-I bet it will be beautiful in the fall.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, Mass is basically a very liberal state. It also has this weird strain of puritanism. It’s a bit of a mystery.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SLM….what we need is NOT to have our governmental framework. How many other countries copied the U.S. constitutional framework since 1789. One, LIberia which has been in civil war for all but 11 years of its history.

  • monicaangela : Kesmarn: I’m doing well. Hope all is well with you.

  • Miles Long : «link»

  • Harleigh : MONICA!!!! HI HI HI!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Monica! Good to see you! How are you?

  • sillylittleme : KT, I think we can thank having Markey in the Senate. He was my rep for over 10 years. His pet issue is the environment. Still mad at the Kennedy’s for putting the kisbosh on the wind farm in Cape Cod bay. That was a huge mistake and a real setback. RIP Teddy. Flipping him the bird.

  • Harleigh : murph… what best GOP???

  • monicaangela : Hello Planteers…I finally get the chance to join you!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SLM…other parties cannot gain a foothold in the system and without that ANY vote for any of them is wasted. Sorry. You get to choose the BEST Dem or the Best GOP.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn! She’s OK for now, but she is once again living alone. I’m going back to help care for her in a few weeks from now. Thank you for asking! ;)

  • kesmarn : MA seems to have its act together. Robert Reich just cited a situation in Lowell where a grocery store chain and its customers are pushing back against a CEO and Board that want to slash wages and raise prices. Very cool.

  • glenn : KT–speaking of the Cape, how’s your Mom?

  • sillylittleme : murph we need other parties, so the tea pee’ers can be put in a corner. we need more progressive voices.

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, that sounds like very wise policy! Mass has a lot to protect. It’s one of the most beautiful states in the country. I still marvell at the beauty of the Cape. And I’ve been going there for over thirty years. It’s very well kept.

  • Harleigh : kesman LMAO… not hardly

  • pinkpantheroz : Back soon

  • kesmarn : Yes! I love their idealism. But this year we have to be pragmatic.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes-+- and that is where a chat about civics, how the government is created in the U.S…..i.e. by the two parties. Period. ANY other candidate is inviting you to toss you vote into the cess pool.

  • glenn : Kes–Uh-oh. Please point out to them how the splinter votes help the repubs. Maybe that will help.

  • kesmarn : Harleigh, you’re right. The EU isn’t quite the USA 2.0, is it?

  • kesmarn : :lol: That works!

  • pinkpantheroz : Kes and KT. Men on Supreme Court: 75. Women 90!

  • kesmarn : Glenn, I am urging them to vote. What worries me is that they might vote for far left splinter parties. Not a good year to do that!

  • sillylittleme : KT, MA is offering a no cost up front to put up solar panels. I think the deal is it is paid back with the electricity that you sell back to the electric company.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hear hear PPO!

  • kesmarn : And yet little Ruth Bader Ginsberg is 81!

  • glenn : Kes–That’s good news about your son and his friends. Tell them to keep widening their circle and to GOTV! Of course, I’m sure you have already done that!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sometimes I think left/right is almost meaningless. I think it comes down to smart or stupid!

  • Harleigh : The EU is good but I think way too many merikans thought it would become a rather american set of states like the US. Most merikans are pretty dumb and unworldly.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, mandatory retiremt age for SCOTUS would be a start!

  • kesmarn : glenn, it amazes me, too. My older family members watch FOX, though. It’s incredible how good they are at manipulating geezers.

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, I think we may survive even that. We do need to change our ways though.

  • pinkpantheroz : Absolutely, Kes! It’s hard enough for one country, the USA, to decide anything alone!

  • glenn : SLM–if the 20 somethings can figure out the republicans, why can’t their elders? As an over 65 person myself, I just cannot understand how people can believe the republican bullshit. It just blows my mind.

  • kesmarn : SLM, my son and his friends are even to the left of me, and I didn’t think there was much room over there on my left!

  • sillylittleme : KT, if we haven’t done so much damage to the planet that we have precious little time…

  • kesmarn : And PPO — getting 28 nations to agree on anything is a real uphill battle!

  • KillgoreTrout : you know, despite all the doom and gloom from both sides, I think America will survive and even prosper.

  • pinkpantheroz : Kes, a dutch griever put it very well. The 28 Euro countries are brilliant at talking, but lousy on action. It seems Europe is getting too cumbersome, with all the research groups, committees, think tanks and the like. There’s no one left to actually DECIDE anything!

  • sillylittleme : kes, yup and they see what is happening, they stay more informed than we realize…

  • Harleigh : It’s the CONCENTRATION of money and the loss of the middle class that’s killing merika.

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly slm! Fortunately, the majority of the youth vote isn’t buying in to the GOPTP bullshit.

  • kesmarn : SLM, that is a much needed note of optimism. I read a survey that said the 20-somethings DETEST the far right and all their drama.

  • sillylittleme : Kes, the demographics of the youth vote won’t help the Rs.

  • KillgoreTrout : Harleigh, I haven’t had a bomber since 2008. I really miss it!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks all

  • kesmarn : Right. This “commodificatio n” of everything is behind a lot of this week’s news. Even behind Europe’s reluctance to sanction Putin, dontcha think? All about the $$$.

  • Harleigh : murph pop a cold one and fire up a bomber! You’ll be fine

  • KillgoreTrout : slm, it’s the want of money that is killing us. Money itself is merely a tool.

  • pinkpantheroz : hi, glenn. Same here. I’ll be to and fro today as well.

  • sillylittleme : Pink, gross. Money is killing humanity…

  • glenn : Hey PPO, Hey Murph. Murph, glad to see you here, even if it is for only a little while.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph! Good to see you. Good growing weather here too. But –as you say– all the pests are growing too. Esp. the teabag variety.

  • sillylittleme : hey murph

  • pinkpantheroz : SLM, Nope! Human life is now a commodity and political tool eveywhere, it seems.

  • sillylittleme : Pink, really is there nothing sacred anymore?

  • KillgoreTrout : What really bothers me about the MH17 is that we, you and I, have no power to do anything about it. Even if we did, what would we do?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Stopping in for a while, farm is wearing me to a frazzle. Good sun, warm to hot temps, enough rain and full reservoir so lots of growth- plants, both good and bad, fungus, mostly bad, mold, always bad, and lot of bugs which (with the exception of worms) are really bad. Abundant harvesting but that takes tons of work as well…so I am pooped….will hang in as long as I am able.

  • pinkpantheroz : HI, SLM!

  • sillylittleme : Pink, hey…

  • kesmarn : That was so funny, SLM!

  • Harleigh : SLM I think they’ll put benghazi a a sprinkle of IRS in the suit.

  • kesmarn : Now that is cold-hearted, PPO. Is there anything that’s not a commodity?

  • sillylittleme : Sorry technical difficulties. I blame the pot!!

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi, Kes – all so sad about the now 36 Aussies downed in MH17. Did anyone see that a Malaysian company has tried to TRADEMARK MH17? Cretins!

  • sillylittleme : Kes, I think this is the last election, if that, that they have. The population is already changing.

  • kesmarn : Can you explain further, SLM?

  • sillylittleme : Kes, I think this is their last election. If that.

  • KillgoreTrout : Harleigh, I guess that’s my point. I f we don’t vote for any repub, the votes are going to show a clear majority or not. Straight ticket voting is the only way to curb the effects of gerrymandering. It’s all in the final tally.

  • Harleigh : Oh SLM I sure hope Grimes pulls it off for Kaintuck. I hope she would find some new clothes and dump that red dress.

  • kesmarn : Hey, PPO! How’s everything in Oz?

  • pinkpantheroz : Hello Up Over from Down Under!

  • kesmarn : I would be SO thrilled to see the Turtle crash and burn,SLM!

  • Beatlex : So congress will go home after having done NOTHING on the important things and concentrate on their lawsuit against the President.f’n eediots!

  • sillylittleme : Did they put that in the suit Harleigh?

  • Harleigh : DUCK!!! Incoming BENGHAZI!! LOL

  • sillylittleme : But all, we can still hold the Senate and we have a shot at solidifying a true majority. Turtle is going down…

  • kesmarn : What do you think, kids? If there’s a light turnout this fall and some GOPTPers get in there, do you think they’ll really go ahead with this impeachment nonsense?

  • kesmarn : That’s it, Harleigh.

  • sillylittleme : Yes Glenn and we are all part of it. Get out and vote and bring a friend and so on and so on….

  • kesmarn : glenn, I didn’t see that! This lawsuit seems like the height of folly. Talk about a waste of time and money!

  • Harleigh : KT the trick works when they put a minority of dems in 4 joining districts and all the rest of the dems in 1 district… a little voter supression and a lite Dem midterm turnout = disaster.

  • glenn : Kes, et al–Did you all see where the Dems added amendments to the suit against the President where the stupid repubs had to vote against “transparency” ? I swear, if Dems running for election do not pound this into the dust, then I will lose a lot of respect for them. I’ll still vote for any Dem who runs in my district, because I’m in a solid red state, but I want DEms to fight for this election. Of course, Dems have to GOTV, too.

  • kesmarn : Well, there is a way to divide up the votes so that each district has too few Dems in it to be able to get a majority. They are fiendishly clever at it. What we really need are impartial, computer-based redistricting plans. But I don’t see the GOP going for those!

  • sillylittleme : KT, they can only get away with it so far in the House. I think the moderates realize that the Rs aren’t getting shit done.

  • Beatlex : Harleigh,I am sure the WORLD would love to see it

  • Harleigh : beatlex I have been stumpin for a Palin-Bachmann ticket fer jebus since December 2007!

  • KillgoreTrout : I say, scew the worries about gerrymandering. Just vote a stright dem ticket. No geographical boundries are going to give the repubs an advantage, when all votes are tallied. Am I wrong about this? Gerrymandering is a political trick.

  • kesmarn : KT, I know I didn’t explain gerrymandering very well. I’ll try to find a decent article on it, though.

  • sillylittleme : harleigh what are log cabin repubs? do they even exist anymore>

  • glenn : Hi, SLM, hi Beatlex

  • Beatlex : Kesmarn,thx good to see you too

  • Harleigh : He is a bagger to the bone!! Dumber than a LOG cabin repub.

  • kesmarn : Hey Beatlex! Good to see you!

  • kesmarn : Hey, SLM! How are you?

  • glenn : Harleigh, did that really happen with West? Does he not think he’s a minority?

  • Harleigh : Hi SLM

  • Beatlex : So because Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann uttered the word “impeach” it has the MSM rolling around in orgasmic delight.LET THE SPECULATION BEGIN!!

  • kesmarn : Sorry, KT. A typo. I meant to say “solid groups of Dem are chopped up” not “and chopped.” And yes, the GOP has made it plain that all bets are off and democracy is the least of their concerns.

  • sillylittleme : Good evening all.

  • KillgoreTrout : If dem vote are nullified, then that means repubs don’t get get those votes either!

  • Harleigh : I swear to jebus the man wants to be the first grand wizard of color. He’s a real fuckin loon.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie. I still don’t get it. I think the time for any decision involving both parties is long gone. What if people voted strictly along party lines? The GOP has made it pretty obvious that they have no intention of actually working with democrats.

  • kesmarn : :lol: Harleigh, you are on a roll tonight. I’m laughing out loud. Did he picket his own house too? And demand that he move out of the neighborhood?

  • kesmarn : It’s a sort of divide and conquer strategy. In effect, they nullify Dem votes.

  • Harleigh : When West was told a minority had moved into his new gated community he organized a protest. When he found out it was him he lit a cross in his front yard! LMAO

  • kesmarn : KT, as I understand it, they re-draw the district lines so that solid groups of Dems and chopped up and placed in heavily GOP districts. So — in my case, I can vote all day for Dems, but they never get elected because I’m perpetually outnumbered.

  • kesmarn : That’s hilarious, Harleigh!

  • KillgoreTrout : I don’t understand gerrymandering. I know what it looks like on a map, but how does it change the way people vote?

  • Harleigh : Bagger West had to move to a gerrymandered district and lost to a newbie Dem! LOL

  • kesmarn : Hey, Homie and glenn! Good to see you! How’s your Friday?

  • kesmarn : OMG, Harleigh. You are in something like the perfect storm of RW Nuttery!

  • glenn : Good evening Harleigh and Kes. How are you all this evening?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey peeps!

  • Harleigh : Rubio is a senator from here and Alan West was next district over for a term.

  • kesmarn : Ah I remember now! Ouch! Losing DWS had to be tough. I had the amazing Marcy Kaptur until we got gerrymandered as well. Now I have a Teabagger.

  • kesmarn : If you are, you have my sympathy!

  • Harleigh : Ft Lauderdal. Debbie Wasserman-Schult z was my rep until they gerrymandered the state.

  • kesmarn : I’ve forgotten what part of the country you’re in, Harleigh. Can you remind me? Are you in Issa’s district?

  • Harleigh : Glad this week is over. Glad some of Issa’s bullshit is over too LOL

  • kesmarn : :-D Hey, Harleigh! Will that do? How are you this evening?

  • Harleigh : Is there anybody in there? smile if you can hear me

  • kesmarn : Please say hi when you arrive. There’s a lot that’s happened this week and we’ll see if we can make sense of any of it.

  • kesmarn : Good Friday, Planeteers and visitors. Here in the heartland it’s almost peach season. And in DC is always impeach season.

  • AdLib : Vox Populi begins tonight at 7pm PDT. Hosting tonight is the witty and wonderful Kesmarn. It should be a very lively Vox tonight, considering all that’s gone on this week. Hope to see you here!

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