• kesmarn : Great, Murph! Thanks so much! Have a restful evening!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes..it is you and me (and maybe Beatlex)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Back for a moment….I submitted the article on the young vet for review.

  • kesmarn : ‘Night, Harleigh!

  • Harleigh : night guys!

  • kesmarn : I hope so too. We welcome every one of our new members! Well, friends, it looks as though it really is time to close up the Vox bar for this evening. But we’ll continue to cover all topics from John Boehner to invertebrates in the sea (Is there much difference?) on next Friday’s edition of Vox! G’night and love y’all!

  • Harleigh : kesman – I won’t eat it and the restaurants are buying stuff elsewhere.

  • pinkpantheroz : Thanks, Harleigh and Kes. great Vox and hope the newcomers had a good time.

  • Harleigh : bye pink

  • kesmarn : That’s right, PPO! This would be your autumn season. Enjoy! It was great seeing you here tonight!

  • Harleigh : Pink the gumbo sounds good if it is like fresh crayfish but the gulf stuff is garbage. If the oil got into the gulf stream the govt would never tell us anyway.

  • pinkpantheroz : Well, I’d better let y’all enjoy the longest day. It’s the shortest one here. Have a great weekend, everybody and sayonara for now.

  • kesmarn : So that gulf seafood is really as bad as they say, Harleigh?

  • pinkpantheroz : Harleigh, I was looking forward to a nice Gumbo. Suddenly lost my appetite!

  • kesmarn : Well, just 5 more minutes, PPO! Look here at what I had already typed: [smiley] Good night, Planeteers! Have a wonderful weekend whatever you do. And we’ll all meet here — same bat time, same bat place — next Friday night!

  • pinkpantheroz : Aww, Kes, Can’t we play outside a little longer? ( grumble, grumble, mutter mutter)!

  • GreenChica : Harleigh, sounds like good advice

  • Harleigh : Pink if you want to see destroyed reefs come to Florida and don’t eat anything from the gulf of mexico! I was going to be here on time but I tipped over on the couch!

  • seehowtheyrun : I’m getting sleepy too. Goodnight all !

  • GreenChica : Sounds good, kes. I enjoyed our confab, folks!

  • kesmarn : Well, dear friends! What say you all? Shall we wrap up this week’s wonderful edition of Vox?

  • pinkpantheroz : So very true, funk! Good Night.

  • kesmarn : Enjoy that loooooong sunny day, funk. (Or will it rain in Seattle?) Rest well. Glad you were here tonight!

  • funksands : Pink, everything is deadly in Australia.

  • seehowtheyrun : Good night FS!

  • pinkpantheroz : Green, don’t go near the Blue-Ringed Octopus. It’s deadly.

  • funksands : Folks I have to step out too. Long week and a solstice to celebrate tomorrow! Sun up till almost 10pm here is Seattle

  • kesmarn : Our poor planet!

  • GreenChica : Pink — same here. A lot of shellfish operations are in trouble because the shells are dissolving.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh…congr ats doing whatever it is if it is what you want….best…c ome earlier next week. You were missed.

  • pinkpantheroz : Green, acidification is a real woory Down Under. the Great Barrier Reef is being affected big time.

  • GreenChica : Our octopusses are very shy.

  • funksands : [smiley]

  • kesmarn : Do you have any octopusses that can predict the outcomes of soccer games, GC? [smiley]

  • funksands : Not cool

  • Harleigh : Murph – Inside sales for health and life insurance.

  • GreenChica : I’m learning all about ocean acidification. Not good.

  • funksands : Cool

  • GreenChica : I’m a docent. I explain about the sanctuary to visitors.

  • funksands : Ecat that’s awesome! What do they have you doing?

  • GreenChica : see — I recently started volunteering at a marine sanctuary museum. I’m loving it.

  • Harleigh : FS – Oh no, Monday – Fri, 9 – 5. I’m in Ft Lauderdale and it’s midnite here.

  • funksands : We’re headed that way next year-ish. I’ll email you and let you know before we do. How far are you from Rolla?

  • kesmarn : It sure was, Beatlex!

  • seehowtheyrun : Good idea Kesmarn. I

  • Beatlex : Good Vox tonight!

  • pinkpantheroz : Goodnight KT and Murph. Looking forward to the Weekend Music piece.

  • seehowtheyrun : CG: I do too. Are they real????? Again, I think it’s human nature. Sex Sells.

  • kesmarn : Murph, thanks for those kind words! G’night and rest well.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…how kind.

  • GreenChica : Take care, KT and Murphy

  • funksands : Murph, thanks again for all your hard work and follow-up. Next time I get down to Missouri I’m going to buy you a beer and tell you to your face

  • kesmarn : G’night, KT! Sweet dreams!

  • seehowtheyrun : Good night Murph and KT!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh…what kind of work?

  • GreenChica : I confess to looking at Daily Mail every day. Every day they hae a picture of Kim’s boobs/bum at the top. Every day.

  • funksands : Night KT, Hope to get to your post tomorrow

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi Harleigh! Congrats on the new job.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : My friends, I must go…before I do…a message…I think I value the Planet more than ever after three weeks of surfing the various on line blogs post HP meltdown….The Planet is a real community…the only one I found.

  • pinkpantheroz : Good one, Harleigh. What line of business are you in?

  • KillgoreTrout : I too must call it a day. Sometimes a little oblivion does me well. Take care good people! Hope to see you on the music thread tomorrow. It’s Ladies Night!

  • funksands : Harleigh, you still at work? [smiley]

  • kesmarn : Congrats on that new job!

  • GreenChica : Funk remember that famous quote from William S. Burroughs: Language is a virus from outer space.

  • seehowtheyrun : Green Chica: I know you asked BS, but they have big boobs and big asses and A LOT of money, and MILLIONS of intellectually and morally bankrupt people want to be like them, or want to screw them. Sex sells.

  • Harleigh : Doing good. started a new job this week and just woke up from a nap. LOL

  • KillgoreTrout : Good night Sabreen. It’s always great to chat with you. Maybe you can drag your old man out for some hand dancing this weekend.

  • kesmarn : See, you might find some stuff you’d like to share/donate with the veterans? Combine projects?

  • funksands : Damn, Pink what a buzzkill!

  • funksands : Ecat: No one can. That’s why they are so amazing. Personally I think they are a virulent strain of antibiotic resistant bacteria that has taken human form is slowing trying to devour us

  • seehowtheyrun : G’night Sabreen!

  • pinkpantheroz : G’night Sabreen!

  • kesmarn : funk, what is a Kardashian? {jk}

  • seehowtheyrun : FS: WELL, I am almost 2 YEARS into a de-cluttering project ( my wonderful husband had a lot of stuff) and there never seems to be enough time to do anything, but I’m thinking it’s time to get out and do it. Besides, it’s an excuse to take a break from the de-cluttering!

  • kesmarn : Sabreen, rest well. It was great to see you here tonight.

  • pinkpantheroz : Sorry, funk, no sideboobs allowed here! [smiley]

  • funksands : Night Sabreen!

  • GreenChica : Good night Sabreen

  • Sabreen60 : Well folks. I’m going to say good night. It’s been a long day. Take care everyone [smiley]

  • GreenChica : Funk, can you explain why the Kardashians are famous?

  • funksands : Thanks Sabreen, that’ll help me pivot to the next topic: The Kardashians

  • pinkpantheroz : Looking forward to it, Murph.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Harleigh…heavy , deep and real discussion here tonight

  • kesmarn : Excellent.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks All…I will publish the article here tomorrow.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, You’re not being a downer IMO. You’re being a realist. We need to face what’s going on in this country – all that’s going on. It’s hard. I read some other things today that really made me angry and disgusted. But it’s what’s out there.

  • seehowtheyrun : It’s OK FS. It’s important to keep these things present in our minds. We need more of it, if you ask me, then we (collectively) might really do something about it.

  • funksands : Hey Harleigh!

  • funksands : See, I’ve wanted to do that for some time, and I never find the time or energy. Maybe this week will get me off my ass.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Watching AJA right now and one of the commentators asked why there has been no major polling on citizen attitude to Iraq intervention and how that connects to their understanding of the Bush wars

  • GreenChica : Murph — fantastic article….

  • kesmarn : Hey, Harleigh! How are you?

  • kesmarn : See, there were volunteers at that banquet that I went to and the joy they radiated was really something to see.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, it’s been a nasty week for all of us. It’s not you. Sometimes truth is not pretty. You know what is, and even beautiful? It’s you and every other person here that cares and takes their time to show it, every week! The Planet is such a very special place!

  • seehowtheyrun : Thanks Kesmarn. I’m really happy by myself. My 3 closest friends live far away, and most of my other friends were couple friends. I’m still involved with them, to a degree, but it’s not the same. I’m still working, but less than I used to, and I want to help others. I think helping with veterans’ isues will a good fit for me.

  • funksands : Murph, you really should. Its a great piece. Very moving and thought-provokin g

  • pinkpantheroz : funk, don’t be down. As you see, you have a caring mob here and it’s good to vent now and again, withoout judgement.

  • Harleigh : Hi guya!

  • kesmarn : Murph, I’m going to try to get to that article as soon as I can!

  • kesmarn : funk, that’s great. Because suicide is so often an extremely impulsive action. The immediacy of that help is very cool.

  • pinkpantheroz : Seehow, that’s a brilliant idea. something like that will do both you and the Vets a world of good. Good luck with it.

  • funksands : See, they’ll need you for sure

  • KillgoreTrout : Seehow, you couldn’t choose a better calling.

  • funksands : Sorry to be such a downer tonight, but its really got my goat.

  • kesmarn : See, that is a great idea! And it’s wonderful that you’re looking to give to others when you could choose to isolate yourself.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…I wrote this over at DK re. an encounter with a newly returned and broken Vet….I don’t think I published it here. I should. «link»

  • funksands : They ping the VA hotline system with a text and someone reaches out to them immediately.

  • seehowtheyrun : This is all making me so sad, but there is a bit of a silver lining. I’m a widow, almost 2 years,. I’m doing great, and I’m not interested in online dating, but I do want to get out and meet new people, with no agenda, just to meet some new people. I’ve been thinking about which groups I want to do volunteer work for, and I think I need to reach out to veterans groups.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thank you kes, my Homie! [smiley]

  • kesmarn : Well said, KT!

  • KillgoreTrout : I have to replace my anger with a will to teach. A will that will help me reflect with great accuracy, the stupidity of war and the utter inhumanity of those that send others to kill for profit. It’s almost an impossible task I set for myself. It drains me physically and emotionally, but I have to continue, as we all do. It’s like Sysiphus forever pushing that huge boulder up a never ending incline. I undertake my task with pride.

  • kesmarn : Can you explain more about it, funk?

  • funksands : Kes, IAVA estimates the new text feature they rolled out a couple of years ago has saved thousands of lives.

  • kesmarn : This banquet I mentioned was at the VA in Ann Arbor, and you could see that they were doing the very best they could — but were underfunded and in an aging facility.

  • funksands : Nearly 10% of Iraqi veterans are homeless

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk, you and I have a lot of direct contact with the vet issue and this shows in our responses

  • kesmarn : There’s still such a stigma to asking for help, and then with an overwhelmed VA — how long before you get to see someone?

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, That is heartbreaking!

  • GreenChica : KT — Same here. I have to self-protect, limit my input or it becomes too destructive.

  • funksands : 22 veterans a DAY kill themselves. 4/5 of them aren’t in the VA system

  • kesmarn : So true, Sabreen! A very disproportionate number of the poor and minorities bore the brunt of that war.

  • Sabreen60 : Absolutely kes. I know guys who fought in Vietnam. I know a couple who didn’t come back. The truth about those who fought in Vietnam were mostly the poor, which included a lot of minorities in the 60’s. Others got college deferments or like Rush, if you had pimples on your butt, you could opt out.

  • kesmarn : I’m just so relieved that neither McCain nor Romney won. Can you imagine??

  • funksands : Think about these poor bastards that served 4-5-6 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Vietnam broke guys after 1 tour. We have an entire generation of broken soldiers that will be a stain on our nation’s conscience for the next 60 years.

  • KillgoreTrout : True, but there are degrees of anger that need to be kept in check. At least for me personally. Anger is not a good thing for me.

  • kesmarn : Sabreen, a few weeks ago I went to a banquet honoring veterans who had survived cancer (family member invited me). The wounds/scars they carry — they last for decades.

  • funksands : KT, its important to stay angry about high crimes against humanity done in our name.

  • seehowtheyrun : So true FS. The closest I got to it was a high school friend who lost her older brother in Vietnam. It tore their family apart. I don’t think they ever recovered.

  • KillgoreTrout : GC, as an American, it truly is.

  • Sabreen60 : If you’ve ever been to the Vietnam War Memorial in DC, you know what the names of 58,000 killed written on a wall looks like.

  • GreenChica : Kes — I saw a program like that somewhere once. Can’t remember where.

  • funksands : For 99% of America, we did not serve, we did not lose children, we did not see it on TV, we did not have to experience it at all. Just like invading and destroying a nation should be. [smiley]

  • kesmarn : That’s right, Murph! I’d forgotten that.

  • seehowtheyrun : I’m bookmarking that Kesmarn.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes Vice is also on HBO

  • KillgoreTrout : You’re right funk. It’s just so sad that so many had to find out after it was too late. Whew! I gotta chill.

  • GreenChica : KT — I think that’s one of those things that too awful to admit.

  • kesmarn : There’s an independent news service called “VICE News” on YouTube. They did an amazing report on a sort of arms “bazaar” in the Middle East where all the major int’l arms manufacturers set up shop and do their mega-deals. BIG business.

  • seehowtheyrun : It’s absolutely true KT. And so tragic that so many people can’t see it.

  • GreenChica : Sabreen that’s right. We were talking about that earlier — how reporters were no longer given freedom to cover the war as they saw fit but were “embedded.”

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, it makes me so fucking angry! I can’t tell myself it isn’t true, and I hate to think that it is.

  • glenn : Thanks, kes and murph.

  • Sabreen60 : Good night glenn. Take care.

  • funksands : KT spot on. Most of them know it, even if they can’t admit it to themselves.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…good night and so happy you have returned to us on Fridays.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, There are no words to describe Vietnam, IMO. Night after night of watching the carnage on TV. That’s when the powers-that-be decided that no more footage of what happens in wars should be on TV.

  • Beatlex : Nite Glenn!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…I hate that you had to say that too…but it is nonetheless absolutely true.

  • funksands : Night Glenn

  • funksands : Vietnam kept the war hounds at bay for almost 30 years. War-mongers can’t have that kind of pause in business again. They’ll employ 500 people to adjust Wikipedia 24 hrs a day if they have to

  • GreenChica : It’s the solstice!

  • kesmarn : Good night, glenn! I’m really looking forward to your article!

  • seehowtheyrun : Goodnight Glenn. Happy solstice!

  • GreenChica : Pink — my “friend” was loonie-toons.

  • KillgoreTrout : I really hate to say this, but those who died, were maimed or made mentally ill by their service were never defending freedom. At least not the freedom of their own countrymen/women . They were used just as a hitman for the mob uses a gun. They were tools of the powers that were.

  • glenn : Alright, folks, time for me to call it a night. Take care everyone and enjoy the first day of summer tomorrow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sab. Yes, like Vietnam but there is a difference. We have the experience of Vietnam and that experience informed every President and Congress since….thus no more Vietnams UNTIL Afghanistan/Iraq …..

  • funksands : Sabreen, especially Vietnam. How could you be angry with a 19 year old kid that got drafted and sent against his will to that hell-hole?

  • Beatlex : Killgore,they no doubt look at it like a game,and they want to win regardless of what is right

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, Just like Vietnam.

  • pinkpantheroz : If you google Moon Landings, you’ll see a shot of the Base, with the Rover parked near the Service Module and the blast arrea from takeoff. Not phony.

  • funksands : Having scotch right now as a matter of facty

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Green…to be clear…what they did was by and large in the name of honor but they were lied to…they were used and they they were thrown away.

  • funksands : Murph, totally agree. There is no middle ground on this.

  • seehowtheyrun : FS: I thought the same. Scotch and coke???????? NO. Scotch and nothing.

  • GreenChica : Horrible. How cynical they are.

  • funksands : Pink, scotch and coke? Ummm….

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GREEN…it is really true

  • KillgoreTrout : No doubt in my mind beatlex. They’ve gotten stinking rich off of the hateful, lying bullshit.

  • GreenChica : Murph — that’s really low.

  • pinkpantheroz : ( cough, cough, ahem) Funk, a few Guinnesses, beers and my Scotch and Coke were to the fore indeed!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk…I totally agree….the GOP uses “our vets” to pour water on the flames and then points to the O admin for having lost their gains…we have to say what is hard…YOU MEN AND WOMEN WHO DIED OR WERE WOUNDED PHYSICALLY OR MENTALLY IN AFGHANISTAN AFTER THE FIRST 18 MONTHS OR WERE EVER IN IRAQ….I AM SORRY BUT YOUR SACRIFICE WAS IN VAIN.

  • kesmarn : funk, have you seen the film “Body of War,” with Tomas Young?

  • Beatlex : KilgoreTrout,yes indeed,they know EXACTLY what they are doing.all for the mighty dollar

  • GreenChica : True story.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ah GC, the Mythbusters proved it wasn’t a fake. How cool is that?

  • funksands : [smiley]

  • seehowtheyrun : GC:MY Grand father always thought the moon landing was fake.

  • kesmarn : No kidding?

  • GreenChica : A videographer who made a film about how the moon landing was a fake. [smiley]

  • funksands : Pink, I assume alcohol was involved? [smiley]

  • glenn : greenchica–who is that who made glennbeck appear sane?

  • KillgoreTrout : Beck, Coulter, Hannity and the rest of these creeps aren’t insane. They know exactly what they’re doing. Controvery=money . That’s it.

  • kesmarn : Seriously, Chica? Tell more about the Beck guest!!

  • funksands : Ecat who was that?

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, funk, A tad scrappy. the PC volume wasn’t great the other end, but the guys all lined up to say hello. Lots of grey hair! But great fun and it was brilliant that I was able to be ‘present’ for half an hour before they went in to dinner., I only recinised a few right away, but they all said thier names as they came up to say hello. We then all sang ‘ The School Around the Corner”!

  • funksands : Iraq is one of those topics that I will never calm down about. Unless we stay at a high simmer on this, the assholes that got us into this will think they can do it again. Unfortunately I think most people are just tired of thinking about it

  • GreenChica : I happen to know the one guest who appeared on the Glenn Beck show and made Beck look like the sane person.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think about halfway through Kelly’s interview, someone whispered in her ear to cool it. About midway, her questions were much softer.

  • kesmarn : sounds, not sound!

  • kesmarn : glenn, that sound more realistic.

  • GreenChica : Kes — I agree. George left more than one big pile of manure that had to be cleaned up.

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, I think you’re right.

  • funksands : Pink, how was the reunion?

  • glenn : kes–megynkelly and glennbeck=the second coming? I think not. Maybe it just shows that even broken clocks can be right twice a day.

  • GreenChica : Interesting article, see

  • kesmarn : Now they’re starting to make a big fuss about the medical treatment that Gitmo detainees get and how much it’s costing, blah, blah, blah. Another fine mess that Dubya started and the Prez has to try to deal with.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, alright. I don’t get the letters.

  • pinkpantheroz : NEVER, Murph [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kt “vrb” means I screwed up

  • KillgoreTrout : Far too many abbreviations these days.

  • seehowtheyrun : I keep doing that: «link»

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, typo brb

  • seehowtheyrun : Forgot the link:

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- you will be able to catch on line. unique

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I don’t know what that means. vrb?

  • GreenChica : Sabreen why on earth do they want to keep Gitmo open? That smells of politics.

  • seehowtheyrun : Here’s one that mention the lack of ammunition. It’s not the Al Jazeers one, that eas a video interview.

  • Beatlex : GLENN BECK AGREES WITH LIBERALS Is this Fracking bizarro world or what? And Megyn Kelly ripping D!CK! a new one??

  • kesmarn : Wish I could catch that, Murph. I’m at the lake place tonight though– no television.

  • KillgoreTrout : ppo, that’s a good point, but I was referring to human pilotted fighters with the best of intel from the ground and satellites.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT “vrb” yeah

  • Sabreen60 : Chica, Speaking of the military budget, the House passed the Defense Spending bill, with a whole slew of Democrats voting for it. I think only 73 voted against it. One provision in bill forbids President Obama from removing detainees from Gitmo. I really want to know why Democrats voted for this bill. The WH say’s its unconstitutional . Here’s a pretty good article. «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…back….wa tch Real Time tonight…sharp debate between Greenwald and vet activist Rieckoff….one of the best I have seen…really nails down the Snowden issue

  • pinkpantheroz : I agree, KT, but BBC World reports that the ISIS louts blend into the local p[oppulation and can’t be separated. they don’t all wear the black uniform, or fly the black flag, so identifying them with certainty for a drone strike is difficult if there are no feet on the ground to direct them.

  • glenn : green chica–I’m with you on that spending not on the military, but on renewable resources. Think of the progress we could make and the jobs it would create!

  • seehowtheyrun : Yes Beatlex. It was a couple of days ago. I didn’t see it anywhere else, and I have a few of news aggregate apps so I see hundreds of stories, I’ll see if I can find it.

  • kesmarn : When Glenn Beck and Megyn Kelly are both right on the same day you have to wonder if the Second Coming could be far off.

  • KillgoreTrout : vrb?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : vrb

  • GreenChica : Beatle — I was wondering about that running away story. It seemed we hadn’t heard all the details.

  • funksands : brb

  • glenn : Beatlex–did you see where even glennbeck said that “liberals were right”, and that we shouldn’t even think about going to war in Iraq again. Blew my mind!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I shall look…I have seen similar stories about Qatar and Saudi Arabia

  • Beatlex : ” Did anyone else read the item on Al Jazeera about the US trained Iraqi’s who are taking off their uniforms and running? The story there said it was because they had NO ammunition.” Really SHTR? unbelievable! but not surprising

  • GreenChica : Funk — grrrrrrr

  • funksands : Remember how we invaded Kuwait to drive out the awful Iraqis?

  • KillgoreTrout : My opinion is that if air strikes are guarunteed to be effective against the ISIS and they will help slow the progress, then yes, we should do that. As long as there is the very minimal civilian casualties. I know that sounds harsh, but should we let all that blood and treasue just swirl down the drain? Our air capabilities are very precise. Much better than they were in the first Gulf War. I would much rather see that than more boots on the ground.

  • seehowtheyrun : I can see that too, Murph.

  • kesmarn : [smiley] ch-ch-ch-chica!

  • funksands : Here’s one of many links about the Kuwaitis «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SHTR…there is some talk about no ammo, but mostly it is about no trust in the regime, so why put your life on the lne.

  • GreenChica : [smiley]

  • seehowtheyrun : Sorry Green Chica. It’s the wine.

  • GreenChica : Okay, I’m a chica not a chia. A chia is one of those green hairy things.

  • kesmarn : Right. The Sunni-Shi’a schism has only been around for about 1200 years. And Dubya thought he was going to fix it?

  • seehowtheyrun : Green Chia: Which fool? BP, Chevron, etc…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk…kuwait and not saudi arabia?

  • GreenChica : we should cancel the military budget except special forces and spend all that money making ourselves energy independent with renewables.

  • funksands : Ecat, it used to be mostly Saudi money directly from Saudi Arabia. Now most Saudi, Qatari and Kuwaiti money is funneled through Kuwait. The Saudi at least have made an effort to shut down this behavior in the ruling family and high-level officials over the last several years

  • seehowtheyrun : Did anyone else read the item on Al Jazeera about the US trained Iraqi’s who are taking off their uniforms and running? The story there said it was because they had NO ammunition.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, Quiet as it’s kept the West did the same thing in other parts of Africa.

  • GreenChica : What fool actually thought we needed to get involved in that Sunni/Shia mess?????????

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Green Chia…funding the Isis folks…look to the Sunni regimes in the Middle East and start with the Saudis

  • kesmarn : And then when ISIS robs banks as they roll through Iraq they get even more “funding.”

  • pinkpantheroz : Sabreen, Britain has an awful lot to explain how they artificially created a new State without as much of a ‘by your leave’ of the local population. and I’m not just talking about Iraq. Israel and Pakistan were created ina similar way. So it’s not the US at all doing that, but we’re the poor cannon fodder sent in to sort colonialism out, often without much success.

  • GreenChica : I gather Kuwait is Sunni? Jon Stewart implied it was the Saudis.

  • seehowtheyrun : Agree Beatlex. Both sides are unified on that.

  • funksands : Glenn, you are so right. EVERYTHING we’ve done there from the moment we overthrew the Iranian government in the 50’s has been a disaster

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen. I saw a professor on Al Jazeera, show a map of Iraq as it now is, as it is likely to become and then show a map of the region in 1890. Guess what….

  • funksands : Ecat, Kuwaiti money is funding nearly all of the sunni terror networks and ultra-nationalis t movements in the world

  • Beatlex : ALL Americans,left and right are sick of wars.That is something to be grateful for

  • Sabreen60 : kes, Yes I had read about her.

  • GreenChica : Murph, that’s a really sad story. THe father still loyal to the GOPers??? Wow.

  • glenn : Funk IMO, we are never going to get middle east stability if we keep intervening. If the people in the middle east want stability, then let them sort it out. I hate for all the innocents to be killed and maimed in a war not of their choosing, but the only way that the middle east is going to achieve stability is when the people of the middle east start acting like they want stability! Kinda like our repubs who say they want a government to work, but do everything they can to make sure it doesn’t work. But, every time we intervene, we piss somebody off, so let’s just stay out of it, and give them someone else to blame when things go wrong.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk- Air support is more of the conventional thinking that has been out of date for 20 years.

  • funksands : Atta boy Murph.

  • GreenChica : Kuwait? Really? Why?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kt…you can find the video on line and the reaction of the press corps is interesting.

  • seehowtheyrun : Good for you Murph!

  • funksands : E-Cat: Kuwait

  • kesmarn : Sabreen, there’s a fascinating article on MB about this woman named Gertrude Bell and the creation of the “State” of Iraq. If you have a moment it’s a good read,

  • funksands : Sabreen: Damn Ottomans

  • GreenChica : Who is funding this ISIS or ISIL whatever the psychos call themselves?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I have a neighbor whose son came back from FOUR TOURS in the Bush Wars and he is a shattered soul…at the store yesterday he asked me how I felt now that Obama had thrown away all that his son had suffered to secure….OK, I lost it…I turned to him and said: “Your son’s no fool, he acted in honor but you are a stupid, stupid man. We have had this discussion before and you have yet to counter any fact I offer but you hold to this belief because you support the man and his fellow traitors whose actions destroyed your son…you are acting out of guilt and I am too angry to go on.”

  • funksands : I’ve enjoyed all of the talk about air support. Of what? Sunnis in nearly every town are complicit in cooperating with ISIL. Who do we bomb? Does ISIL wear black cowboy hats so our drones can pick them out?

  • seehowtheyrun : I hope so too, Kesmarn.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, Given that the “West” created Iraq after WWI, IMO making the country “whole” is damn near impossible. It was never ONE country. The sunnis, Shiites and Kurds lived separately. They were thrown today and told to make the ONE country work. I don’t see it happening.

  • GreenChica : I think Rachel had a clip of Cheney or Wolfowitz claiming there was no problem with sectarian violence in Iraq.

  • funksands : It’s how conservatives deal with the faint, uncomfortable feelings of guilt and responsibility: Lash out, project and rewrite history.

  • seehowtheyrun : I think you are right PPO. And I don’t think the MIC wants a draft. They too much money on the privatization of our military.

  • kesmarn : See, I think basically we will do some advising and protect our embassy people, but that’s about it. At least I hope so.

  • seehowtheyrun : Well said, Beatlex. I just hope it isn’t so messed up that the Us intervenes. W was really good at screwing things up so bad, that we almost HAVE to act like he did.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, really? Holy Shyte! I thought it was some GOP gathering where they all patted each other on the back for a job well done. Jeebus!

  • kesmarn : But that would be rational, funk.

  • funksands : If the desired end result is middle east stability, and everything we’ve done up until now has made it more unstable, you’d think we’d consider a different path.

  • GreenChica : Kes — it’s pointless. It only helps to talk to the “independents” who don’t follow the news.

  • pinkpantheroz : I feel that everyone is so cynical of the Congress and the GOP lies that they would have to have a hard job convincing people to accept a draft.

  • kesmarn : Murph and funk — yes! — how do you talk to people who “think” like this? It’s mind-boggling!

  • Beatlex : In a nutshell my friends,the middle east is on fire,and the administration of GWB IS responsible.Jail ed they should be,not out to spew their nonsense.Meanwhi le GWB is trying to paint the shame away.I guess it beats facing reality

  • GreenChica : My GOPer sister in law still thinks Iraq was involved in 9/11.

  • funksands : See, for sure A big fat war tax and the draft would end most wars before they ever began

  • KillgoreTrout : seehow, that is the very reason there is no draft today. Complacency is easy to maitain when a person’s life is not on the line when they turn 18. The republican pukes have learned some lessons well.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- were you speaking of the video with Bush looking for the WMD’s- that was at the WH Correspondents Dinner…unbelie vable, this is the tone and tenor of their arrogance.

  • funksands : I’ve asked conservatives point blank: “So what you are telling me is that 4000 dead soldiers, 200K dead Iraqis, 3 million refugees, turning Iraq into a terror state, into a protectorate of Iran, coating the countryside in depleted uranium, causing a 20 fold increase in birth defects. 10 years, $1Trillion? If I told you that THAT was the price for removing Hussein, you’d have done it?” “Absolutely, and Obama lost it all”. Gahhh

  • seehowtheyrun : PPO, I think the vast majority would say, hell no we won’t go.

  • kesmarn : I would suspect all 5 of Mitt Romney’s boys would say “Hell no,” PPO!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- but even that came off as a bit of “dig”. I think that this administration needs to name names and doing it in such a way that they GOP shuts the Fuck up. I mean it. I live in Redland and I have a dozen arguments in the last three days about the reality of the war and these chuckleheads have dozens of vets all around them horribly wounded by the two Bush Wars.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, Someone at the presser asked Jay (whom I’m going to miss) about that statement by Cheney or something like it and Jay basically implied the question was idiotic and also asked “which President”?

  • KillgoreTrout : I have no words to describe the utter disgust I felt at watching W do that. He would never have done that at a WH correspondents dinner. This was a private affair. (with video cameras) They always seem to forget that the world is watching. Dumb fucks.

  • seehowtheyrun : GC: There is no way kids would fight the wars for oil/energy of there was a draft. They have to be financially strapped and/or thoroughly propagandized to enlist.

  • pinkpantheroz : Seeno, I wonder if they ever had the gall to reintroduce a draft, how many would say, ‘Hell, no, We wont go”!

  • kesmarn : Good points, See and Chica!

  • GreenChica : Good point, see. Now, only the desperate go into the armed services.

  • kesmarn : Murph, Jay Carney’s reaction to that statement was: “Which president is he talking about?” Good one.

  • seehowtheyrun : Green Chica: They don’t allow the footage, and we no longer have a draft. Bring back EITHER of those and the wars would stop.

  • funksands : The nerve it takes to blame how someone ended your disastrous war is incredible

  • GreenChica : Yesterday I watched part of the CNN show about the 60s. Tons of horrifying footage of Vietnam, which is why we were able to get that war ended. This time around, they don’t allow that footage on TV. There’s a huge difference.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…I know we are having fun with Cheney and Liz but the very fact that this statement from him got so much coverage from so many news outlets is deeply, deeply distrubing:”Rar ely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. Too many times to count, Mr. Obama has told us he is “ending” the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—as though wishing made it so.” AND he was not referring to his own supposed boss (we know the truth)

  • Sabreen60 : KT, yep I remember. I don’t know if it was a correspondence dinner or something like it.

  • kesmarn : KT, I remember that! How must the parents of dead/injured kids feel about that “joke”?

  • Beatlex : ked. funksands : Recently saw that its estimated that 350K soldiers suffered head/brain injuries in Iraq.What a sad statistic funk.

  • seehowtheyrun : KT. Yes I remember W’s stupid frat boy smart ass remark.

  • seehowtheyrun : Regarding the number of head/brain injuries from IraqFS: THAT is what the MSM should be reporting.

  • KillgoreTrout : You guys remember W at some GOP love fest JOKING about not finding WMD?

  • funksands : You keep raising on your pair of twos until someone calls your bluff. That’s how these guys operate. Bullies only stop their behavior when someone stands up to them

  • Beatlex : ked. funksands : Recently saw that its estimated that 350K soldiers suffered head/brain injuries in Iraq.

  • kesmarn : 350K?? That’s awful, funk.

  • Beatlex : ked. funksands : Recently saw that its estimated that 350K soldiers suffered head/brain injuries in Iraq.

  • kesmarn : The arrogance no, Chica? And Rumsfeld: “You fight with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.” Like they’re pawns on a chess board — not humans.

  • Sabreen60 : Green, I remember that interview. I was absolutely gobsmacked.

  • funksands : Recently saw that its estimated that 350K soldiers suffered head/brain injuries in Iraq.

  • KillgoreTrout : Naw, we would want real animal cruelty put upon them! Slobbering and all.

  • Beatlex : Funksands-LOL

  • GreenChica : Remember that Cheney interview when someone quizzed him about the mess in IRaq and he said “So?”

  • kesmarn : Robo-pits, funk.

  • glenn : brb

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s also a great idea funk! With snarling German Sheps at their faces.

  • funksands : Electric Pit Bulls

  • kesmarn : With some “encouragement ” from a few pit bulls, funk.

  • funksands : They should be sentenced to forming naked human pyramids at Abu Ghraib for the next 30 years

  • kesmarn : Indeed!

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL kes. In very high pitched voices!

  • GreenChica : Beatlex — my mother used to say that about Kissinger.

  • glenn : green chica–indeed, mk is a right-wing shill on fox. Yet, she still put dickie-poo in his plae!

  • kesmarn : KT, we’d be hearing a lot of Allahu-akbar, without a doubt.

  • Beatlex : I can never look at Cheney and not think of Dr Strangelove.He has done more to harm America than anyone else I can think of.

  • GreenChica : KT — excellent idea.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CHENEY 101 Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. Too many times to count, Mr. Obama has told us he is “ending” the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—as though wishing made it so. with video «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : As I said in one of regular comments, we should drop Cheney and the rest of the architects into the middle of a Sunni neighborhood in Iraq. Let Karma take over.

  • kesmarn : Jinx, glenn!

  • GreenChica : Glenn — I read that too. Isn’t Megyn Kelly a rightwing shill on FOX?

  • funksands : Its still stunning to see Judith f-ing Miller being asked her opinion about Iraq

  • Sabreen60 : It’s amazing to me how the MSM gives all these neo-cons a platform when they got it so completely wrong.

  • kesmarn : I was amazed to see Megyn (“BarbieFOX”) Kelly call out Dick Cheney for having been wrong on basically everything he ever said about Iraq.

  • glenn : Kes–I was absolutely shocked when I read that Megyn Kelly from Fox actually asked Cheney why we should listen to him, when he got it all wrong before. She told him he was wrong on WMD, he was wrong when he said we would be greeted as liberators, and he was wrong when he said the sunnis and shias were not a problem. It was priceless!

  • GreenChica : Funk, good point. MSM was having a field day. I can’t even remember anyone who spoke up against that invasion except Obama.

  • funksands : I read earlier that the Washington Post alone had 26 editorials calling for invasion.

  • kesmarn : Exactly

  • funksands : The Cheneys aren’t the only ones that feel the need to rewrite history to paper over their complicity in the Iraq War. I think that’s why the MSM is so eager to air neo-con views

  • GreenChica : Kes — Dick left a big mess behind and now sits back and whines about how others are handling the clean up.

  • kesmarn : As AdLib said, it’s like getting advice on navigation from the captain of the Titanic — talking to Cheney, that is.

  • KillgoreTrout : Muy caliente!

  • GreenChica : I guess when Chenneys crook their talons, the MSM comes running.

  • KillgoreTrout : ppo, that is the gift of a true friend, or loved one.

  • seehowtheyrun : I am so sick of seeing and hearing the Cheneys.

  • GreenChica : Funk — I picture them slopping around in the La Brea tarpits.

  • funksands : Hi Glenn!

  • glenn : Hey Funk!

  • funksands : Nada mas. Y tu?

  • funksands : It’s nice of the Cheneys to pause their feeding, raise their fangs and weigh in on the issues of the day

  • pinkpantheroz : BRB Coffee time.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen and funk? Que pasa?

  • kesmarn : Chica, funk has been explaining the mysteries of this monetary theory called MMT to the Planet. It’s going to change the world! (And funk says we’ll all be getting large checks.)

  • pinkpantheroz : KT. OOOOOH! Special Irish. Very expensive. I have only one bottle, and ration it. (Got it as a Gift!)

  • GreenChica : B –Well, Lizzie pissed all over her sister while daddy accepts her.

  • Beatlex : Hey Funk!

  • funksands : X howdy!

  • KillgoreTrout : GC, as Dennis Hopper siad so wisely in Easy Rider, “I never really considered myself a freak, but I LOVE to freak.”

  • Beatlex : GreenChica,Liz worse than D!CK!,not possible my friend

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Dick-Head, and Liz-Ard are desperately trying to have a legacy to save.

  • funksands : Hi Murph, Sabreen, E-cat, glenn, See, KT

  • GreenChica : Kes, what is MMT-meister?

  • seehowtheyrun : Hello Funksands!

  • funksands : Kes is in charge! Starting laying lines and rolling bills!

  • Sabreen60 : Funk’s in the house!

  • GreenChica : Evening funk, see, sabreen et al

  • KillgoreTrout : PPO, never had a Middleton.

  • kesmarn : Hey, funk! How is the MMT-meister this evening?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Howdy Funk….

  • GreenChica : Little Lizzie is even worse than daddy.

  • funksands : Good evening everyone!

  • seehowtheyrun : NOTHING Murph. I was invited to join that HPrefugees group but haven’t been able to sign up. I’m not even it that interested in the group but the moderators there have been working really hard to solve the issue and now the curiosity is killing me. I have to see it through.

  • Sabreen60 : kes, grooaann! They are the awful. Someone call them the evil one and his demon seed.

  • glenn : Beatlex–I thought Liz looked like she was waiting to pounce, but couldn’t find the energy; she looked stoned to me.

  • kesmarn : Beatlex, I just caught your Mortimer Snerd comment about Lizzie! Too funny!

  • GreenChica : KT — yes, heads = freaks.

  • Beatlex : Hey Glenn!

  • KillgoreTrout : e, in my HS the heads WERE the freaks! Or at least that’s what the other’s thought. I guess there will always be “dorks,” too.

  • kesmarn : We’re just talking about the Cheneys — dad and baby — at the moment, Sabreen.

  • glenn : Hi to Beatlex, See, and Sabreen. Replies are coming in so fast, I’m a little behind.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, when not having a Middleton Special, my plain scotch is Grants or Ballantines. Don’t mind puttin Coke on them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SHTR….what do you do at MSNBC?

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi Murph!

  • Sabreen60 : kes, doing well. I’m reading the previous comments. Is there a particular subject?

  • seehowtheyrun : My Friday had been very productive, but also sucked Kesmarn. I’m having an internet issue. My IP address is blocked from msnbc. They’re saying it’s not them, so I spent the day troubleshooting with ATT, who dropped the ball, hasn’t solved the issuse, and didn’t call back like they said they would. BUT, I got a lot of home projects done.

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL Murph. I once played flag football in Jr HS!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SeeHowTheyRun,,, ,SHTR….happy evening to you.

  • GreenChica : Liz Cheney freaked out on twitter or something didn’t she?

  • kesmarn : glenn, you have to wonder how many times that alleged heart can be jump-started too, dontcha?

  • pinkpantheroz : Yes, kes. I suppose 25 alums is a great figure. I don’t think many stayed away, in fact. We have lost a few alums on the journey ( including one we never imagined having connections to the IRA!)

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey seehowtheyrun! How are you this evening? You win the prize! I don’t know what that is, but you won it!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Reprinting this cuz I think its smart….took me a day to construct it….REGARDING IRAQ TALK…The reality of Iraq is that a WH conspiracy created a false narrative to trick the Congress into permitting a U.S. invasion of a sovereign nation to turn it into a client state, a permanent military outpost, and a lot of oil smack dab in the middle of a troubled area. Neoconism pure and simple. How can the GOP talk about it without lying? How can the Dems talk about about without being embarrassed? How can the media talk about it without admitting their complicity?

  • GreenChica : KT the heads. Me too. Our high school was jocks, freaks, and dorks.

  • glenn : Kes–how can little lizzie be trained in CPR? Isn’t that scientific? Can we just hope that if CPR was actually necessary, that she wouldn’t know what to do?

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi Sabreen: Internet hell day, But I’m having a lovely seared ahi tuna steak and a wonderful wine, so everything is GOOH HERE!

  • KillgoreTrout : PPO, I like Johnny Walker, as a common man’s blended scotch, but when allowences permit, I love The Glennlivit! Nothing like a 12 year old single malt!

  • kesmarn : Sabreen! How are you?

  • kesmarn : Hey, SHTR! How’s your Friday going?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT..so what was it like being the Captain of the Varsity Football team…?

  • Sabreen60 : Hey folks! How is everyone? [smiley]

  • Beatlex : Liz looked like Mortimer Snerd during that whole interview with Darth Invader

  • kesmarn : Hmmm…would that be the latter, Homie? “Buns” is a new one to me though…?

  • seehowtheyrun : Hello everyone. I’m guessing HEADS KT?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$ the power of current energy industry both direct and indirect to influence campaign finances on both sides of the aisle is huge. 94 percent of those with the most money win.

  • KillgoreTrout : In my HS, there were the jocks, the buns and the heads. Guess which of these groups I belonged to?

  • pinkpantheroz : Absolutely, KT. Not the GOOD stuff anyway [smiley]

  • glenn : Murph–how is it going to cost them? Are you talking about the tparty? How is it that 10-15% of the people in the US are dictating what we talk about? Just fries my butt–and I truly believe that if we could just get Dems to come out fighting, we might be able to get the conversation turned around. Then again, I may be naive, but I am sooooo sick of tpartiers getting to dominate the conversation. Of course, if our media was anything close to being the “liberal” media that cons claim it is, we might be able to get something accomplished.

  • kesmarn : That’s amazing to get 25 alums together at one time!

  • Beatlex : KT! AH-HEY!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey, Beatlex is in da house!

  • pinkpantheroz : Very much, glenn! I toasted them all with a Scotch, but there were 25 of ’em. Sho am (hic) a bit shecondhand today (burp)!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Beatlex- The reality of Iraq is that a WH conspiracy created a false narrative to trick the Congress into permitting a U.S. invasion of a sovereign nation to turn it into a client state, a permanent military outpost, and a lot of oil smack dab in the middle of a troubled area. Neoconism pure and simple. How can the GOP talk about it without lying? How can the Dems talk about about without being embarrassed? How can the media talk about it without admitting their complicity?

  • Beatlex : Hey Kemarn! good to see everybody here!

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, NEVER mix scotch with coke, or anything but a wee dash of water!

  • Beatlex : GreenChica,great question.He is the one most responsible,and yet they are lining up to get his sage advice

  • kesmarn : Chica, I heard speculation that they’re getting Liz Cheney ready for a possible spot on a presidential ticket. Either that or she’s train in CPR rescue and Dick needs her with him at all times?

  • pinkpantheroz : Oh yes, Murph. Learned a lot and did OK for myself. a few mental scars, however, not major.

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL GC! I once met our homecoming queen one night in a local bar, a few years after we graduated. We hit it off very well. That was enough for me! A truly beautiful woman (with a republican upbringing).

  • GreenChica : Not that I watch any of it. I cannot stand to even look at that Dick CHeney.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Beatlex! Good to see you. And yes, different day, same whine from the GOP, no?

  • glenn : Hey PPO–so you need a little hair of the dog, huh?

  • GreenChica : Beatlex –the Cheney circus has been puzzling. Why are they getting so much airtime?

  • pinkpantheroz : Thanks, green and Murph. Makes sense now!’

  • kesmarn : PPO, is it true that their strictness was legendary? (I went to a Catholic academy too.)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- Irish CB’s or the DeLaSalle’s- tough guys both groups…but effective teachers in my experience

  • Beatlex : So here we have the spectacle again of the R’s attempting to tell the President that force is needed in Iraq.And he is to blame for the mess there.They offer no concrete ideas,just demands that the President do something.And the media is playing right along.Interviewi ng the very people responsible for the fiasco in the first place!Asking what they would do?

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi, Murph. went to Christian Brothers School, St. Andrew’s, Westland Row. Class of ’64.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Green Chica, PPO- Emoprogrs, the irrational pretending to be ultra rational

  • GreenChica : Kilgore — I recognized one old friend. She was still drunk after all those years! Said hello to me twice, didn’t remember the first time.

  • kesmarn : I haven’t gone to mine either. The folks I wanted to stay in touch with, I have.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- Talk is not cheap…in this case such talk could cost them a lot and they know it…

  • GreenChica : Emotional progressive, generally those wigging out that Obama is too moderate.

  • KillgoreTrout : I’ve never been to any of my HS reunions. Never felt the need. All my HS friends are either dead, in prison or sold out long ago.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO where did you go to school in Dublin, what school?

  • glenn : Kes and Murph–I wish some Dems would start actually being pro-active, and bring up wind and solar power. Forget the Kochs and their lies–don’t even mention them–but talk about facts and figures about how alternative energy works. Also, talk about how we wouldn’t be dependent on those “nasty muslims” for our oil.

  • pinkpantheroz : emoprog? Er, whazzat?

  • kesmarn : glenn, here’s a link to the Koch anti-environment alism in Ohio «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- wherever you go that is where you are…have fun…we will talk later…news for you.

  • pinkpantheroz : Hi, Kes!

  • GreenChica : Pink — I went to a high school reunion and hardly recognized anybody. It was depressing.

  • AdLib : Hey Murph, had a bit more extra time but have to head out in a few, lots of fun playing co-host to Kes!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib Good summary of the milieu at DK….I used to spend a lot of time at HP because there was some diversity there…..at DK not so much, so more time here and at Salon.

  • kesmarn : Hey, PPO! I love the term “sparrow fart”! [smiley]

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, I used to watch those pompous dicks, but I cut my cable tv about 3 years ago. I spend the majority of my free time on the net too.

  • GreenChica : Speaking of emoprogs, whatever happened to FireDogLake? Is that still around?

  • pinkpantheroz : Good Afternoon, All! Well, I made it to vox (just!) after being up until sparrow fart this morning at my 50th anniversary high school reunion ( via skype) in Dublin! Great fun, didn’t recognise a soul, but we still had a laugh!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : MORNING JOE BECAME MOURNING BLOW FOR ME…so I now watch Al Jazeera America every morning….it’s like Kalima’s Morning Blog…

  • AdLib : Murph, you know my qualifiers about DK. It is light years better than HP, true Progressives hold the reigns…yet EmoProgs flourish there (don’t forget all of Moulitsas’ harsh attacks on Obama especially in his first term…for betraying Progressives). That sensibility plays into those who need to feel superior to others they see as lesser Progressives and the dreaded “clique” mentality. This is not to paint with a broad brush over a majority of folks at DK but just that the “superiority” sensibility does infect some folks there.

  • kesmarn : Chica, you wouldn’t believe what the Koch’s have done in Ohio. Set the movement toward solar and wind back by a decade at least with this new ALEC bill that Kasich just signed.

  • glenn : KT–well, I never watch Scarborough, either. I try not to be one of those retired people who watches TV all day long. So..I stay on my computer all day long! [smiley] At least, I can “talk back” to the idiots on my computer–presen t company excepted.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Watching Real Time with Bill Maher….about as hot as I have seen it on real issues- Glenn Greenwald vs. Paul Rieckhoff

  • GreenChica : Gore says Koch/ALEC are behind the efforts to tax solar.

  • kesmarn : Oh… now he is really insufferable…

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, Scarborough has the same problem, only tenfold.

  • kesmarn : Thanks for that link, Chica! Al is proof that living well really is the best revenge. Contrast his career with Dubya’s…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…alternat ive energy…wow…m y next door neighbor state, OK, has passed a law that taxes those who have solar panels because of pressure from the electric companies. SO, yes, I completely agree, but oh what we have to overcome. Remember that per projections by 2030 the U.S. is a net exporter of oil IF we continue to force it from the land…no matter what the cost, short and long term.

  • KillgoreTrout : Which she is rapidly shaking off. Can’t beat wisdom and practicality.

  • glenn : Ad–I agree, Matthews is a tool. And he damn well better know how government works. I don’t watch his show any more, but when I did watch it, every other question began with when he worked in government.

  • kesmarn : Yes, she does have that additional handicap as well, Homie!

  • GreenChica : Pretty good article in Rolling Stone by Al Gore about climate change. «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, she’s also one of those, you know…..females !

  • kesmarn : So true! Elizabeth W. is the ultimate blue collar pragmatist! And Matthews is…what? … struggling to look relevant?

  • KillgoreTrout : e, the donkey with the barrel did not fool me! [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…howdy…pl aying ed mcmahon to joan rivers tonight? good summary of MatthewsModality

  • glenn : Murph– be glad to–Don’t you think this is a wonderful time to start talking about alternate sources of energy, like solar and wind power, and even alternate fuels? Given that oil prices are probably going to go up, because OPEC never loses an opportunity to raise prices, and the unrest in Iraq is a perfect excuse!

  • KillgoreTrout : I saw that glenn. He should arrive with his “negro army,” in tow. Surely if Obama denied global warming, the pubs would soon swear that it exists.

  • GreenChica : Hehe. Can’t fool you folks.

  • kesmarn : I thought so! [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GREEN CHICA….a rose by any other name? hah

  • GreenChica : Kes — it’s only me, escribacat!

  • kesmarn : Hey, GreenChica! There’s something about you that seem verrrry familiar! Have we met? [smiley]

  • AdLib : Kes, Matthews is such a tool. Warren came from very blue collar beginnings, is he trying to get into an idiotic, “Who was raised poorer?” debate? I see him purposely attacking Obama and other Dems on occasion to burnish his “independent” credentials. IMO, it burnishes his Dishonest and Manipulative Pundit credentials.

  • glenn : Hi green chica–welcome!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kes- matthews loves to play HARDBALL!

  • KillgoreTrout : I think EW stumps many among the 24hr news nets. She’s sooo pragmatic. They don’t know how to approach that.

  • GreenChica : Hi folks

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT discussion there is excellent and very engaging, lots of smart people but they do stand, as a group, on a high hill looking down upon the ordinary folk.

  • kesmarn : Exactly, Murph! I almost wondered if he might be deliberately baiting her to get her to really speak passionately. But — for cryin’ out loud — she’s already passionate!

  • glenn : Kes–I’ve just seen that they’re doing great things, not exactly what they’re doing. But you know our “cons”; we can’t take good ideas from them there Europeans–it’s just unAmerican. Hell, they won’t even listen to their own scientists when it comes to climate change. Did you see Jon Stewart’s piece on that last night? Priceless! His answer is for President Obama to roll up to Congress in a Humvee, armed to the teeth, and denying climate change. Stewart says the legislation would be passed tomorrow!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- i may have been out, please repeat your question.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…I like Matthews- his passion, his zeal, but he is not a realist….and his Warren position exemplifies that. In moments like that he seems not to know how the government works, but he does.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, sorry to hear that Murph. Can’t they hang up their emotions for a little while and engage their intellects?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…emoprog will get you pounced on for sure.

  • glenn : Murph, did you see my question about alternate energy sources?

  • kesmarn : glenn, have you seen what Germany has been doing in the wind and solar area lately? Amazing!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I am back

  • kesmarn : [smiley]

  • KillgoreTrout : Too funny kes. Colbert pointed out the distance between Miss and North Carolina….”as the sheep flees.”

  • kesmarn : KT, he probably hired the guy who shot McKinley as well.

  • glenn : You know, Murph, speaking of oil. Don’t you think this is a wonderful time to start talking about alternate sources of energy, like solar and wind power, and even alternate fuels? Given that oil prices are probably going to go up, because OPEC never loses an opportunity to raise prices, and the unrest in Iraq is a perfect excuse!

  • kesmarn : Speaking of progressive smugness, I see that Chris Matthews attacked Elizabeth Warren for not being “as blue collar” as he himself is. (Gag!) And for not forcing the Prez to fix the national infrastructure. HUH??

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, what do they have to say about emoprogs? Is that a “bad word,” there?

  • glenn : Kes–No, the guy was basically saying, “you keep talking about how bad everything is, how are you going to fix it?” And, of course, he just got more bs about how bad Washington is, never how the candidate was going to fix it. I just tried to look it up, but can’t find it.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think Obama also had something to do with Monroe’s death too. Though he wasn’t even born yet, but no matter!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : BRB

  • kesmarn : Specially when it involves farm animals, KT… [smiley]

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT….progressiv e smugness made holy by the founder’s reliance on meta-Jesus…don ‘t get me wrong, the site rocks but it is also a little rocky. I have dared to introduce the idea that progressive broke our contract with the President in 2010 and have not really stepped up since.

  • kesmarn : Murph, the only thing they can say about Iraq is that it’s all Obama’s fault. But then, what isn’t? Up to and including the break up of the Beatles?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Homie, what happens in Mississippi stays in Mississippi!

  • KillgoreTrout : I hear ya Murph. You think it has something to do with the founder, or just progressive smugness?

  • kesmarn : Oh KT, that Cochran/McDaniel race is a parody of itself, no?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : One thing they do not want to speak of is Iraq as it really is…a colossal screw up manufactured to create a client state armed to the teeth keeping the rest of the region in check and floating on oil.

  • AdLib : Repubs have attacked Obama mercilessly for five and a half years…yet his approval rating is still 6 times higher than theirs. So…what does that say about that strategy?

  • KillgoreTrout : Uh oh glenn. Is that the same clown who made a joke about “messing,” with farm animals in the pasture? Too funny. Stephen Colbert did a bit on it and my sides were splitting from laughter.

  • kesmarn : glenn, was there a long cricket-chirp-fi lled silence when the Dem asked about jobs programs?

  • glenn : Murph–yes, talk about what others have done, as long as it’s not gwb or dickiepoo. We don’t want to talk, let alone hold Congressional hearings, on what they have done!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- welcome…I want others to bask in the wisdom of the Planet and its denizens….ther e is a smugness at DK which is more than a little annoying.

  • KillgoreTrout : Just think Ad, double the olives!

  • glenn : KT–To ask repubs to concentrate on jobs, the economy, etc.? Did you see where some old Dem asked a repub to give specifics on how he was going to accomplish anything in DC if he was elected? I think it was in Mississippi.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Congressional investigations – it is all the GOP can actually do….talk about what others have done (or did not do but they want to pretend they did) That sums up Fast and Furious, the IRS, Benghazi.

  • kesmarn : Right glenn and KT — there’s always funding for another special prosecutor. After all — how much did Ken Starr blwo through back in the day? Can’t let his record stand!

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, comment, not post!

  • AdLib : Mmm…martinis and pizza…

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, thanks for putting my post at the Kos. I’m honored.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello to Glenn, KT, for your kind greetings.

  • kesmarn : Murph, I’ll do my best evil-woman-geniu s impression!

  • glenn : Kes–you gotta love this Congress–well, mostly this House. Let’s investigate something that went missing before we asked for it. After all, we can waste a lot of money on holding hearings, and then complain about wasting money!

  • KillgoreTrout : I guess it’s too much to ask the pubs to concentrate more on jobs, immigration and the economy.

  • kesmarn : Somebody refill that martini pitcher, so that AdLib will stick around! We’ll even order pizza.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- let me quote Obama to Hillary: “You are brilliant and witty enough.” Now….you are supposed to give me a coldly calculated chuckle.

  • kesmarn : glenn, I heard the same thing. Those emails were from before any of this was even an issue!

  • KillgoreTrout : Gee Homie, only six? LOL!

  • glenn : Murph–naps are good. I take one almost every afternoon.

  • AdLib : Have a little bit more time than expected so I’m still here. But as soon as the martini’s run out…

  • KillgoreTrout : Nope Homie, you are one of a kind!

  • glenn : Hey Murph, how are you?

  • kesmarn : KT, I had to hand it to the current IRS director for saying “Enough with the investigations! There have been 6 already!”

  • glenn : Kes–read a little bit today about one congressman asking about the missing emails, and pushing the IRS person on why the IRS was trying to “hide” the emails from Congress. And the IRS person saying, “Since the emails were deleted a year before Congress asked for them, can’t answer your question.” Or something like that. It was a priceless response to the Congressional asshole, whoever it was.

  • KillgoreTrout : ‘Sup Murph?

  • kesmarn : [smiley] When I read what AdLib wrote, I thought: “Is there another kesmarn out there?” [smiley]

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, I see those “hearings,” in the same way I see the Bengahzi bullshit. Just a hopeless witch hunt. What “they,” fail to understand is that the IRS investigated both sides. It’s just more whining without the dining.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…I see that you are guest hosting tonight…Joan Rivers (brilliant and witty) to our regular Johnny Carson (Ad Lib)?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph! Good to see you! How are you this evening?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Monica- I take a nap when I can in prep for Friday night at the Vox

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Just finished catching up on comments and now turning the corner at VOX……

  • kesmarn : What are your thoughts on these IRS “hearings”? (When no one is listening, can you still call them that?) I’ve just caught little bits, but it sounded like Paul Ryan was his usual obnoxious self.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ah glenn, as kes just said, length is not a problem. It must be a very interesting account.

  • kesmarn : So true, KT! And glenn — longer is not a bad thing! Even if it ends up being published in more than one chapter, that’s great.

  • glenn : KT and Kes–I hope my article lives up to your kind words; it’s coming out longer than I expected. When I get it finished, I’m going to go back and edit for length, but right now I want to make sure it’s complete.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, and they seem to be forever thirsty!

  • kesmarn : We have both, glenn! But no Kool-Aid. We let the Teabaggers drink that.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, I have no doubt. That’s the hard part about writing. I look forward to reading about it.

  • glenn : Kes–which kind of Cheetos–puffy or crunchy?

  • kesmarn : glenn, I’m so glad to hear that you’re working on your Iran article! Can’t wait to read it!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey stranger, Ad! I hope everything is OK in your world?

  • glenn : AdLib–Hi and bye!

  • kesmarn : Hey, glenn! I am the chief cook, bottle-washer and server of cheetos…

  • glenn : KT–all is well with me; writing about my time in Iran is really bringing back memories!

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s up Homie? I’ve been pushing my intellectual powers most of the day. It’s a tough job, but someone has to do it! [smiley]

  • AdLib : Hey KT! Have a great Vox!

  • kesmarn : Hey, AdLib! Great to see you here. Yes, another fiendishly clever plot by Obama — who also paradoxically doesn’t know how many states there are.

  • AdLib : Hey glenn! Just on my way out for a bit but great to see you!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn. I’m doing very well thank you. I hope all is well with you!

  • glenn : Hi Kes–are you the head honcho tonight?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Homie! How’s your Friday going?

  • AdLib : Hey Kes, just popping in quickly to say thanks…and curse the arrest of the Benghazi mastermind since it’s clearly an Obama-planned distraction from blaming him for not catching him! Have a great Vox, will try to pop in later…and I do mean “pop”.

  • glenn : Hey KT–how are you?

  • KillgoreTrout : Que pasa folks. Catching the Benghazi attack leader was the worst that happened to the GOP (this week).

  • glenn : Hi Ad Lib, how’s it going?

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening to all our Planeteers — old (well, “seasoned”) and new! Please say “hi” when you arrive, or “catching the Benghazi attacker was the worst thing to happen to the GOPTP all week”!

  • AdLib : Hey Monicangela! That would be great! Hope it works out!

  • monicaangela : Seven PDT is 10 EST, I will try to join you although I am one of those who believes in the Benjamin Franklin quote: Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise. [smiley]

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PDT. You’re in for a treat because guest hosting tonight is the brilliant and witty Kesmarn. So much to chat about from this week, a great chat is on tap for tonight!

  • Beatlex : Hi Miles! I heard the “POP”!

  • MilesLong : Test

  • Beatlex : You too AdLib!

  • AdLib : Have to agree Beatlex, loved that smug Cantor’s smackdown! Have a great weekend!

  • Beatlex : I have been watching hockey…I am Canadian after all.The Eric Cantor smack down was the best thing I have seen in a long time.It did not wipe the smug grin from his face though.Buh Bye Eric!!

  • Fergie1 : Well, although I didn’t contribute much, I’m glad that I came to the party. I’ll read more further down at my leisure later on our time. Nite Miles, Harleigh and Ad! Have a lovely weekend friends! Oh yes, and Happy Fathers’s Day to all the Dads. Byee.

  • AdLib : Night Harleigh! Have a great weekend!

  • Harleigh : nite all

  • AdLib : Night Miles, have a great weekend!

  • Harleigh : Pakistan is the place to watch… 200+ nukes and delivery systems.

  • MilesLong : Okay, then. Good night, all…

  • AdLib : Well, I guess it’s that time, to close the Vox bar for the night. Thanks all for a real rousing Vox! Have a great weekend and a happy Father’s Day!

  • AdLib : Night PPO, have a great weekend!

  • Harleigh : nite pink, nice nighty! LOL j/k

  • MilesLong : Nite, Pink…

  • pinkpantheroz : Time for me to sign out and actually get something done today! Thanks everybody for a great Vox and it’s good to see the new bloods joining the debate. See you all at the Weekend Music thread.

  • MilesLong : Besides, since Karzai gave the US a rousing Fuck You, President Obama has basically told Iraq to go screw itself. So, the US playing hardliner is a natural.

  • Harleigh : miles – Of course we did, along with other intel agencies in Europe and certainly Israel. I mean c’mon, We ain’t talkin the Bundy Ranch with redneck baggers with some guns here. LOL

  • pinkpantheroz : Harleigh, thats the problem with getting re-involved with this Middle east crisis. We don’t for sure know who is who, and who backs them. And, to be honest, the US wouldn’t normally give a shit about some civil-war riddled Arab country if it weren’t for the OIL. Betcha the Oil and Armament lobbies are screaming their heads off at the WH to DO SOMETHING! But I hope that the US stays out of it for so many reasons.

  • AdLib : Good point Harleigh. Maybe the US did know though. But what would we do if we knew about it ahead of time? And what if our intelligence agencies saw an advantage in this?

  • MilesLong : Maybe we did, Harleigh… {grin}

  • Harleigh : I still have not seen or even heard a definitive answer anywhere about how we did not know about a large trained group called ISIS, all newly equipped, matching black outfits, shiny new guns, lots of yellow PU trucks outfitted with large caliber automatic big guns, rockets, mortars and all that training and communications.. . SURPRISE! uh we just conquered your broken country!

  • Fergie1 : PPO :lol: :lol: :lol: Truth!

  • pinkpantheroz : I need to get some and try that. Thanks, Miles.

  • AdLib : Good point, Fergie!

  • MilesLong : PPO: Also, there’s usually a service manual online in PDF format that will show you how to open a laptop up to clean or replace a part.

  • pinkpantheroz : No miles, sounds a bit painful!

  • pinkpantheroz : Early days, fergie, early days!

  • Fergie1 : Hey Ad, maybe we should be thankful that it’s only coffee PPO is having!

  • MilesLong : PPO: Have you ever shot some compressed air into the vents?

  • pinkpantheroz : Miles, can you do that to a laptop? My fan is working more and more.

  • Fergie1 : PPO – the tyranny of distance and the folks who need their zzzz’s unless they are on the West Coast!

  • MilesLong : I just took mine apart to clean it Saturday. It was way past time.

  • pinkpantheroz : Yes, Ad, lesson learned. I also learned a lesson about coffee and keyboards. They don’t mix!

  • MilesLong : Sneeze, and you miss something…

  • AdLib : ppo – Hope you’ve learned your lesson, no coffee during Vox. ;-)

  • AdLib : Thanks Kes, have opened it in a window to read after Vox!

  • pinkpantheroz : Gosh! You go for a coffee and everyone chuffs off. was it something I said?

  • MilesLong : Nite, Kes…

  • AdLib : Night Kes, have a wonderful weekend!

  • kesmarn : And with that, I’ll have to be taking my leave too, dear friends. Have a great weekend, everyone!

  • AdLib : glenn – Please feel free to contact me, always happy to help and looking forward to it!

  • kesmarn : This is the link to the article on the bank robbery: «link»

  • AdLib : Night see! Have a great weekend!

  • kesmarn : Please do write that article, glenn!

  • AdLib : glenn – Yes, I assumed so. I’d really enjoy reading about that era in Iran from a first hand experience.

  • glenn : Good night, all! Ad, I will read the instructions on how to write a post, but I still may be emailing you if I run into problems. G’night.

  • kesmarn : G’night to all departing Planeteers! I was searching for that article and missed a few as they were leaving!

  • glenn : Funk–good night. I’m right behind you. Wish I could be right behind you in getting cheeseburgers and ice cream, too. Enjoy!

  • funksands : Night See

  • funksands : Fergie good, its probably not the sulfites giving the headaches then

  • seehowtheyrun : Goodnight FS. Goodnight everyone. I’m out too.

  • funksands : Night Dbos. Thanks for joining us tonight!

  • Fergie1 : Oh funk darling – the good stuff of course! Black label!

  • funksands : Glenn, I bet it’ll come back to you if you set your mind to it.

  • seehowtheyrun : Buona sera Dbos.

  • funksands : I’m going to toddle off myself. Big day tomorrow grabbing a ferry to go get ice cream and cheeseburgers. Mmmmm

  • Dbos : Adios mi Amigos

  • glenn : Ad and Funk–I’ll see what I can put together. I’ve been meaning to go through my pictures, so that will “jog” my memory. You do realize that I left Iran in 1978, so it has been a long time.

  • seehowtheyrun : Good night Fergie.

  • MilesLong : Later, Murph…

  • Fergie1 : Good night to all those departing for the evening. This time diff. is a bummer! BRB myself by which time you may very well have all gone!

  • Dbos : See ya Murph

  • funksands : Please

  • AdLib : Night Murph! Well done on a long week’s work that’s shown many dividends! Have a great weekend!

  • funksands : Glenn, I demand a post!!

  • Dbos : Not as much as we poured into the stupid war there

  • funksands : Night Murph

  • AdLib : glenn- That’s what I would have thought. a personal remembrance of what it was like then. Not political but social. Would be great to read!

  • seehowtheyrun : Good night, Murph.

  • funksands : Fergie, you drinking the good stuff or the cheap stuff?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : It has been a long week in blogging world. So nce to see such life here and elsewhere on our Planet. Please keep inviting those you know to visit our Virtual Neighborhood!

  • kesmarn : I’ll see if I can find the link on the bank robbery.

  • glenn : ‘Night Murph. Have a good weekend. So nice chatting with you again!

  • funksands : Gag

  • Fergie1 : My drink of choice? VODKA and anything. Although time has a way of taking away the enjoyment. Instead of a buzz, it’s an unwelcome headache! Where one it was possible to have five and feel just “fine”, now two and it’s curtains! I’m a child of the 60’s as many of you here know. San Francisco graduating class of 1968! Those were heady days!

  • seehowtheyrun : It’s just sickening that the media is running to the architects of the Iraq war for their advice and opinions.

  • kesmarn : Supposedly there are plans to revaluate the Iraqi currency. They allegedly took only big bills because those will be the ones affected.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well on that note…I am going to fold my tent.

  • funksands : Glenn, I think that would make it even better. Honest.

  • glenn : G’night Sabreen

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….I think we need to turn to someone who can explain all of this us…a guru of international relations….Dic k Cheney! Just saw him quoted at length on CNN…

  • funksands : Kes, wow, I hadn’t heard that. What the hell is that kind of cash doing in a bank? That smells fishy to me. No bank in the US would every have even a sliver of that much cash on hand.

  • Dbos : good night sabreen

  • seehowtheyrun : Goodnight Sabreen, have a great weekend!

  • kesmarn : Good night, Sabreen! Stay well!

  • funksands : Right. It’s madness. Who were the people that flew planes into the WTC? Who funds all of the Sunni jihadists around the globe? We just ignore it.

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen! Have a great weekend!

  • glenn : KT–g’night. Sleep well.

  • kesmarn : funk, I read today that ISIS picked up $3.5 billion by robbing the bank in Mosul. That’s some hefty funding right there. Not to mention tanks and helicopters they captured.

  • glenn : Funk and Ad–If I did write a post regarding my experiences in Iran, it would not be very political. I was there in 1976-1978 and wasn’t paying much attention to politics at the time. At the time, I was just trying to make life as “normal” as possible in a foreign country. I did have some bizarre experiences, though.

  • Sabreen60 : Well, I’m out, too. Everyone have good and healthy week. Good night.

  • Harleigh : dbos is right stay out. While iran is sucking up all the news cycles Iran will be cranking out some nukes if they haven’t already and that would stop any threats of military attacks, and they know it. Israel will gobble (or is it gobeles?) up the last of gaza and west bank.

  • Fergie1 : The demise of Cantor. Don’t know, could never abide the man, but it may not be good for the country as a whole. Apparently he and Joe Biden were able to “talk”. That surprises me though. Those GOP pollsters are pretty useless!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- and yet both are supposedly our friends.

  • AdLib : Night KT! See you over the weekend for the music thread!

  • funksands : Kuwait (by some accounts) has funneled almost $1 billion directly to Sunni insurgent groups in Syria over the last year. Kuwait has been the jihadi laundromat for years.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Nite KT

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- so for the Saudis, the entire region in flames is better than a strong Iran.

  • glenn : dbos–You are correct; nothing in that part of the world is as it seems–and even if it seems one way, it’s only temporary. Let the Muslims and Arabs sort it out. They understand each other so much better than we ever could.

  • Sabreen60 : Good night KT. Until the next time….

  • AdLib : glenn – You could be right but what encourages me is that our governments are now talking about collaborating on Iraq. That is more cooperation than Obama has gotten from Repubs!

  • MilesLong : Nite, KT…

  • kesmarn : G’night, Homie! Sleep well!

  • seehowtheyrun : Sweet dreams KT!

  • funksands : Night KT

  • Fergie1 : oops, hit button too fast!

  • funksands : Murph, if Iran ever got a nuke, I think the Saudis would beat the Isrealis to the punch.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well good people, this has been a very interestin (and fast) VP tonight. I got’s to hit the hay. Hope to see ya on the music thread tomorrow and Sunday! Sweet dreams all!

  • Fergie1 : So much: Iraq what a nightmare with the ISIS. School shootings – horrendous. Something must be DONE!

  • funksands : Murph, the Saudis consider Iran to be their greatest enemy. I don’t think they’re terribly concerned about instability in the region. We’ll alway protect them

  • AdLib : Dbos – Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want US military involvement in Iraq but the idea of Iran seeking to work with us there is very fascinating to me.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…so are we seeing the sunni and shia chess pieces move into position for an all out holy war against each other?

  • Sabreen60 : KT, Well I certainly hope you don’t end up the same way.

  • MilesLong : The Iranians are a whole lot smarter than the GOP.

  • kesmarn : Dbos and glenn — interesting that you’ve both compared the Iranians to the GOP.

  • funksands : Murph, ostensibly it is to protect Sunnis against other corrupt branches of Islam and non-believers

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….but does the instability in the entire region serve them…and where do the Iranians fit into this…infidels?

  • AdLib : Sabreen, ain’t gonna happen. No RWNJ can win a GE in the US, America doesn’t elect extremists as Presidents. Idiots occassionally, but never extremists.

  • funksands : Murph, those countries are run by their version of our right-wing militias. They are the most extreme of the extreme and their wealth gets funneled to anyone that will fight against the infidels

  • glenn : Ad–Not sure if we can redefine our relationship with Iran. I look at the political leadership there as very much like our gop here. If President Obama is for it; they’re against it. Therefore, if the US is for it, then Iranians are against it. However, if we were able to redefine our relationship, I agree, what a positive force that would be!

  • KillgoreTrout : Without the orthodox religion…of course.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, if the rwnjs win in 2016, I may have to go the route of Deitrich Bonhoeffer.

  • Dbos : Ad stay away from every situation in this part of the world ;nothing is as it seems, alliances are not really alliances as we know them just convenient temporary situations; kinda like the republicans in congress; stay away from them too

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- what is the purpose served by Saudi, Kawaiti, and Qatari money invested in ISIS.

  • Fergie1 : Those warm greetings have made my day – thank you. It’s really great to see all of you.

  • AdLib : glenn – I second Funk’s request, would love to read about your experiences in Iran!

  • kesmarn : Sabreen, that might be the wisest course.

  • Sabreen60 : kes, If a RWNJ wins in 2016, I might cut and run.

  • funksands : Sabreen, the Saudis and Kuwaitis are funding nearly all of the jihadi extremism on the globe right now and its like we just pretend not see it. Crazy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi there Fergie…

  • AdLib : Hey Fergie! Nice to see you!

  • AdLib : glenn – Well, we did put the Shah in power in Iran and they were an ally…but that led to turning the nation against us. Maybe this is the opportunity to redefine our relationship with Iran?

  • funksands : Glenn? Please tell me you are going to write a post about your time in Iran???? Pretty Please??? :-)

  • glenn : Hi Fergie–good to see you, even if it is only momentarily.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Fergie! Gday!

  • Sabreen60 : Hiya Fergie!

  • MilesLong : Hey, Fergie…

  • funksands : Hey Fergie!

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi Fergie1

  • kesmarn : Hey, Fergie! Good to see you

  • funksands : KT, I agree wholeheartedly.

  • kesmarn : If only Obama had longer than a couple more years. I shudder to think how much ground could be lost if some RWNJ gets into the White House.

  • funksands : Most of Isis’s money comes from the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and Qataris

  • Fergie1 : A big “HI” to all – old and newbies! It’s 2:08 Sat pm here in Melbourne. Sorry folks I’ll be in and out doing “stuff” but wanted to say greetings. Can’t catch up with all the great conversation so I’ll just lurk for the minute!

  • glenn : Ad–we have worked with Iran militarily before. The reason I was in Iran for two years was because we sold them F-14’s and my husband worked for Grumman.

  • KillgoreTrout : Religion is NOT saving us, or the world at large.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, America is suffering from a very real spiritual sickness and I don’t mean a lack of religion. We all know that there is too much religion in this country’s politics and media.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, Someone tweeted that Saudi Arabia should fight. After all, it was Saudi terrorists who caused 9/11.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- all of which might help explain Israeli silence.

  • funksands : Ad, the Saudis would lose their f-ing minds if we did that. I wonder if we have the balls to do it.

  • AdLib : Murph – Iran and the US working together militarily? As I said to Murph, might not the end result of this terrible situation be a more positive situation in the region? It’s in Iran’s and our interest to stop ISIS and have stability in Iraq. SO the dividend may be dissolving away the Great Satan BS and being able to have dialogues and negotiations on many important issues.

  • pinkpantheroz : BRB – coffe!

  • seehowtheyrun : I read that story too Sabreen. It’s disgraceful.

  • funksands : Sabreen, KT these are signs of a nation that’s really lost its way.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, I also read a story about the poor doing time because the court fees accrued. The crimes they committed were really BS crimes. Somebody stole a $2 bottle of beer and ended doing jail time because he couldn’t pay the fees. And woman died in jail after being locked up for 48 hours. She couldn’t pay the court fees because her kid was constantly truant.

  • glenn : Murph–the only good thing I see is McCain microwaving his head. I’d pay to see that! Maybe on HBO right after Hannity gets waterboarded!

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, the sad reality of the American economy is production for war. The late president Eisenhower warned us of the Military Industrial Complex.

  • funksands : I’ve never understood why we are so pathological about the Shi’ites? I mean I get it after the hostage situation, but Iran has never invaded another country, they’ve had the same border for 2000 years. Its the Sunnis and their splinter groups like the Waahabis that are the crazies. Kuwaiti Waahabi Sunnis fund nearly 90% of the radical madrassas around the world

  • seehowtheyrun : I agree Dbos. Let Iran and other countries in the region take care of it.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – The sad fact is of course, we should never have invaded a country that did not want to be invaded. We forced our agenda on them our, insisted they do as we told them, what a colossal waste of our nation’s treasure, both lives and money. I don’t blame the Iraqis for not being who Bush tried to program them to be, I blame Bush for causing all of this.

  • Dbos : Iran is picking sides let the take care of it; they don’t want the fanatics in charge they are just like the tea party they eat there own.

  • kesmarn : The one consistent thing, KT, is that arms and supplies are always being sold somewhere. Must be great to have no soul and own stock in Halliburton, Lockheed-Martin, et al…

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, that’s downright Dickensian!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Consider how things change if the U.S. and Iran work together on this. How it could effect Israeli Security. How it could affect Russian influence in the area. How it could cause McCain to microwave his head.

  • glenn : PPO and Sabreen–my sentiments exactly. We gave them weapons, training, and they aren’t willing to fight for their country, why should we? Let the oil-rich Arab countries use their resources and people for a change.

  • KillgoreTrout : funk, that is criminal! In the 21st century, that should not be happening.

  • KillgoreTrout : The irony of Iran even thinking about working with us is incredible. We sold Saddam wmd so he could beat Iran in the Iraq/Iran war. Fucking insanity.

  • AdLib : Funk – I wonder though, if Iran was to move for closer relations with the US, might not there be more of a path to address Syria?

  • funksands : KT, I saw a story recently that around 25% or so of the prison population in local jails are there because they can’t pay their court fees.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : another report….Irania n Revolutionary Guard to be assisted in coordinating attacks by U.S. air power.

  • glenn : Murph–I just hate to see us get involved in that region again. How many lives and how much money are we willing to risk if the Iraqis themselves aren’t willing to fight ISIS/

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s what I’m thinking too, ISIS may have gotten a media bump that over-exaggerates its power simply because there has been no resistance to date. But now that they’ve gone too far, if major powers rally against them, they may find that holding up newspaper clippings about how powerful they are won’t protect them against superior forces and firepower.

  • pinkpantheroz : glenn, I, for one, don’t think the US should get involved at all. If the Iranians are worried, let THEM do the deed and kick ISIS out of Iraq. They are a major military power next door. Oh, and where’s saudi Arabia in all this, with thier huge army and Air Force. There are enough military options right there in the region to let the US stay right out of it.

  • Sabreen60 : AdLib, I understand what you’re saying. It’s just hard for me to understand who we gave up blood and treasure to train an army who decides, for whatever reason, that they aren’t going to fight for their country – or against their country for that matter. I mean WTF?

  • kesmarn : Sorry — cat hit send! …in Al Maliki’s government who are working with ISIS.

  • KillgoreTrout : If we stopped arresting, trying and jailing people for victimless crimes like drug posession, maybe more resources could be spent on eradicating illegal guns and ammo suppliers. Of course, that would make too much damn sense here in the wild west!

  • kesmarn : The third possibility of why the Iraqi national troops ran was suggested in an article that I read today — that they were ordered to stand down. That there are insiders in Al Maliki

  • Dbos : Sunis had this goofy land under a dictator named Saadam we took him out; they are battling for the soul of Iraq now literally ; and the fanatics will win. This all on us ;STAY OUt of that situation.

  • funksands : Ad, I’m afraid only a re-do of the partition of the Ottoman Empire after WW1 will undo this calamity

  • KillgoreTrout : That would be a great step forward pink. The problem is that ammo is really hard to control. Great enforcement efforts would be needed. It would be like the war on drugs, as long as there is a demand, there will always be someone willing to supply that demand. I think the effort would be worthy though.

  • funksands : Ad, I think your hypothesis could have some merit if Syria wasn’t a failed state in the middle of civil war. That throws a bit of wrench into a good thought.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- we have an aircraft carrier squadron 6 hours from the Persian Gulf- I do not know what intervention looks like but I suspect that we will be a presence.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – For me, the issue is, did they run out of fear…which makes no sense when you far outnumber your adversaries but it is possible, or did they run because of political reasons, because they don’t want to risk their lives for a leadership that sees them as enemies?

  • Sabreen60 : Oh I agree Funk. I was just saying that the Kurds are in this, too.

  • glenn : Murph–do you think the US should intervene in Iraq? Shouldn’t we let it be a regional solution?

  • AdLib : So Funk, might it not turn out to have been better for the region to have ISIS as a threat that brings Iran and others together with the US to stand against their common enemy. And if that enemy is not as pervasive as they appear, might they not also be easier to slap down than would appear right now. SO in the end, even though innocent people die either way, maybe the course of events in that region could head in a more constructive direction in the aftermath of this?

  • pinkpantheroz : Yes, KT, so right, but I still think that control of the ammo could be the answer. Guns without ammo are just bits of metal.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Editorial from Iranian Newspaper….ISI S, which considers itself the embodiment of the Islamic Caliphate, declares the kingdom of God wherever the group flies its black flag. But as ISIS’ power grows its schism with other Islamic groups may pale compared to the reprisals it will face from government powers. Mosul is ISIS’ signature victory so far, its biggest achievement. But the price of victory could be a giant target on their backs. This could be the moment when regional and international powers like the United States, Iran, Saudi Arabia decide to intervene against ISIS.

  • KillgoreTrout : OK, guerillas. The NVA knew well in advance that we we were leaving.

  • funksands : Sabreen, the Kurds are simply being opportunistic. There is no way that Isis could take over these towns without the tacit approval of the majority Sunni locals

  • Sabreen60 : AdLib, There seems to be three factions, including the Kurds. But the fact is 30,000 Iraq troops ran away from a few hundred rebels. After we taxpayers spent billions to train them, they cut and run. Just like the South Vietnamese did before we pulled out.

  • glenn : Ad–oops–damn mouse pad. I was just thinking if you substitute Sunni for t/party, then you have the insurgents in our country.

  • AdLib : ppo – This is the thing I was trying to bring up in my article today, anticipating blowback. If ISIS was to cut off the water supply to Baghdad, it might be a massive tactical mistake, rallying the Sunnis in the military to crush them for threatening their families like that.

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, it never should be. There are reportedly 300 million guns in America. Trying to stop gun violence by getting rid of guns is like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike, trying to ward off the north Atlantic ocean!

  • glenn : d–great minds think alike. I was just thinking if you substitute

  • funksands : Ad, I think that’s it. There’s already been a tremendous amount of sectarian violence in W. Iraq. All that ISIS is doing is coming in an tipping the scales.

  • AdLib : glenn – That’s the key, if no one is opposing a marauding army of fanatics, their power can become exaggerated…hm m…kind of like the Tea Party?

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, if ISIS capture Samara, they can turn off Baghdad’s water at the Dam. That’d cause some mayhem!

  • Sabreen60 : Here’s PBO’s statement on Iraq. I didn’t read the questions asked by the jackals. «link»

  • funksands : Ad, im more of a bath salts guy myself

  • glenn : Ad and Kes–but if no one is opposing them, then 700 armed people have a lot of power.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Yes but my question is, are they Sunnis taking off their uniforms after deciding they won’t fight for their Shia leaders who are oppressing them and cutting them out of power?

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, don’t forget the terrain. Only a couple of roads, so easily attacked.

  • kesmarn : I agree, AdLib — the numbers just don’t add up.

  • funksands : The ISIS forces may be small-ish, but they have a lot of sympathetic helpers in W. Iraq

  • seehowtheyrun : So true Miles.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- the remnants of the Vietcong.

  • AdLib : Kes – I think it’s a bit of a scheme going on, as you mentioned, the goal of raiding banks and maybe acquiring more power may be bringing some in the Iraqi government to collude with ISIS but come on, only 700 people can take over and hold all the cities in Iraq? It doesn’t make sense. Even the high estimate ( I think exaggerated) of 7,000 seems insufficient.

  • glenn : kes–thanks. I’ll let you know if I do.

  • MilesLong : PPO: Mass murder is America’s New Normal.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, what local insurgents? NVA or gorillas?

  • pinkpantheroz : Is the issue of guns and shootings a bit too raw right now?

  • kesmarn : Maybe you should, glenn! I’d read it!

  • glenn : Kes–my sisters and I used to say the same thing–we could write a book.

  • Sabreen60 : AdLib, I watched Rachel last night and she showed pictures of uniforms in the streets that Iraqi soldiers and taken off and ran out of Dodge. Did you read PBO’s statement?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….this is shade of the fall of Saigon when the N Vietnamese hung back while local insurgents tested it defenses…

  • kesmarn : AdLib, I also read that some Kurd and (I think) Shia forces had retaken Tikrit. So maybe the ISIS forces aren’t able to hold cities they’ve already taken…?

  • glenn : Harleigh–where in South Fl do you live? I lived in the Keys until three years ago when I came up here to GA to be with my daughter and granddaughter.

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s OK Harleigh, you can say FUCKS!

  • Harleigh : Glenn – I raised hell my whole life until I was 50 and settled down with my wifw here in south floriduh. They always told us these were our golden years. Lyin Phucques!

  • kesmarn : Wow…glenn, you could write a book! That’s amazing.

  • AdLib : From what I’ve heard today, this ISIS force may only be around 900 strong, maybe up to 7,000 but I don’t believe that report is as accurate. The reason they’ve been so successful is that the 30,000 Iraqi Armed Forces has many Sunnis who are refusing to fight to protect the Shia government. But if they protect Baghdad as is expected, there will be a sudden halt to ISIS and the perception of them as being so powerful.

  • seehowtheyrun : The first she asked me if I had any pot, I was thinking WTH?????

  • KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, it’s time, it’s time. Use a vaporizer though. Much easier on the lungs!

  • Sabreen60 : Damn See – I thought my comment scared everybody away. Go Mom-in-Law :D

  • glenn : Kes–when you grow up with a mother who had been married three times by the time you were 16, you learn to go the other way. After I left home, she got married three more times. I was very careful to whom I gave my virginity, and have never regretted it.

  • seehowtheyrun : Go for it Sabreen. I don’t smoke anymore, it bothers my throat, but my Mother-in-law does, and she’s 93.

  • KillgoreTrout : Talking about getting older, I’m having two athaletic supporters made, one to worn around each knee! 8O

  • Sabreen60 : Ok, I’ll just put this out there. I haven’t a joint in years. Now that I’m on Medicare, maybe it’s time.

  • pinkpantheroz : BRB.

  • Harleigh : I have Iranian army rifles for sale! Never fired, dropped once.

  • kesmarn : glenn, you had good judgment from an early age.

  • AdLib : Funk – So which brand of airplane glue do you prefer? My favorite brand has an oaky after-smell.

  • glenn : Hey Harleigh–I was born in the same year as you. Not as much of a hell-raiser, though. Got pregnant with my first partner. The good news is that we were married for 43 years before he passed, and raised a wonderful daughter.

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, the irony of that is off the charts!

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, I’m betting that Israel is very quietly gearing up to defend itself against whoever tries anything. I just think it is so ironic that the state that labelled the US as ‘the Great Satan”, is now gettin so nervous about Iraq, that they are proposing talks. I betch every eye in the sky from Istanbul to qatar is looking at what’s going on. Hopefully, it being a Middle East problem, all the Middle Eastern countries will get together and do something about it. Yeah, Riiiight!

  • MilesLong : War is a great for-profit endeavor for the military and the media…

  • KillgoreTrout : Israel HAS to be cautious. They are the only real US ally in the entire middle east!

  • AdLib : Murph – Israel is probably both concerned and relieved, as long as there’s a possibility of Iran and Iraq in conflict with each other, they’re out of the cross hairs. On the other hand, a radical Islamic terrorist state is scary. On the whole, I’d bet they’d rather have Iran and Iraq at each others’ throats.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, et al It seems the Chickenhawks are in rare – or maybe usual – form. Calling for boots on the ground in Iraq. And the media has the audacity to call on the critters that lied about Iraq for analysis.

  • funksands : Ad, if you are new to it, a highly concentrated dose of THC hitting your stomach all at once can really impair your judgement, but otherwise you are correct

  • glenn : Murph–one of the things I admire about Israelis is that they always do what they think is right for Israel and the hell with everyone else. So, it’s hard to say where they’d be in this. Do they “favor” Sunnis over Shiites? Hard to say.

  • seehowtheyrun : I don’t know. I’m wondering if they’re waiting to see what happens. Maybe it’s all too chaotic still.

  • KillgoreTrout : Wow H, 23 schools?

  • Harleigh : Born in 48, was 13 in 1961 when I lost my virginity and never regretted that. Falling in love tim after time in 7 states and 23 schools from K thru college was awesome

  • kesmarn : Maybe just sitting back, waiting until all the dust settles? — Israel, that is?

  • seehowtheyrun : glenn: I saved a bunch of those shoulder pads. I was going to make a quilt out of them, but then I thought better of it and threw them away.

  • Sabreen60 : Cool Miles. I love music and have been dancing practically all my life.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : See how….wonder why?

  • seehowtheyrun : Murph: I think Israel has been remarkably quiet on Iraq.

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, quite true. Too much thulane in the wormwood. I tried a bottle of Lucid brand, made from the original recipe, with a lower thulane content. Wow! Very potent stuff. 136 proof.

  • kesmarn : funk, there is nothing weird about kielbasa. :-(

  • glenn : Funk–c’mon those padded shoulders in the 80’s were awesome!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, Kes, Funk, Ad…where is Israel in all of this…what is going on in their heads?

  • AdLib : Funk – I heard about the quality control issue, especially on edibles. Some folks are getting much higher than they anticipated, not knowing what to expect. As opposed to alcohol where people can die from an overdose…and get hostile. You overdo it on pot and you’re only in danger of overdosing on Taco Bell.

  • MilesLong : Sabreen60: R&B and the height of Disco in the club, R&B, Jazz and Rock on the radio.

  • Sabreen60 : See – a young’en :)

  • glenn : Sabreen–I came of age in the late 60’s, with a husband and a 3-year-old by the time I was truly of age–21.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- the kind of boxed thinking that typifies narrow minded GOP. What will they do?

  • funksands : Uh……no. Don’t be a weirdo

  • Sabreen60 : Miles, I bet it was. Being on a college campus in the late 60’s (in DC no less) was a lot of fun. What was your play list?

  • kesmarn : There goes my cheapo vodka,funk. That does sound delicious, though. Do you think a piece of locally made Polish kielbasa would work just as well? It’s pretty garlicky.

  • seehowtheyrun : I came of age in the late 70’s.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, I have, but Absinthe has lived with a bad rep for years, unjustified. Properly distilled absinthe is perfectly fine. It was the bathtub version in the early 20th Century in Paris that did the damage.

  • funksands : I came of age in the 80’s :l Not so awesome

  • seehowtheyrun : I don’t know. I’m finding things like old envelopes, torn, with a phone message on them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- yes, we are in a period of major realignment with the radical islamic forces identified more and more with the Sunnis and therefore despised by states like Iran.

  • glenn : Murph–that’s way too sober. That sounds to me like Washington is “propping up” a government. Is that really what we want to do AGAIN? And, who is “Washington”? I mean, is it Congress who wants to do this, or PBO?

  • funksands : Kes, take a bottle of decent Vodka (Absolut, Stoli, Grey Goose etc) Peel a clove of garlic and stuff (don’t cut it!) it into the bottle. Seal it and stick it in your cupboard for a month. Pull it out and use it in your bloody mary. Unbelievable. Don’t use cheapo vodka though, because the sulfites turn it green and dissolve it.

  • AdLib : Murph – Yes, this is what came to mind about the ISIS attack, Iran is very scared of having an enemy on its border again…and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Perhaps this looks bad now but if it brings Iran closer to the US and the bargaining table on Nukes, etc.?

  • kesmarn : You might need those very same items again, See?

  • MilesLong : Sabreen60: I was a club and radio DJ in the 70s, now THAT was fun!

  • seehowtheyrun : WHY do I keep things like post-it’s with old shopping lists on them?!?!?!

  • KillgoreTrout : AH, what a wonderful time to meet the world. I wouldn’t change a minute of it.

  • seehowtheyrun : I’m going through the old mail and some other REALLY important stuff.

  • Sabreen60 : Oops. Accident. I came of age in the late 60’s early 70’s. Need I say more?

  • kesmarn : Murph — talk about jihad making strange bedfellow. Iran and the U.S. — allies now??

  • funksands : Ad, the biggest problem has been the problem that everyone knew about and was expecting: Quality control. That’s going to get ironed out with proper regulations.

  • seehowtheyrun : I love a good Bloody Mary.

  • Sabreen60 : KT, I came of age in the late 60

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, ever try real absinthe? Ooooo! be careful! That’s some potent shyte.

  • kesmarn : YES! A good bloody Mary every time, funk! With celery.

  • Dbos : Still here; just glad to be back and listening for a while

  • AdLib : So talking about this, pretty smooth roll out of legal pot in CO, all the fear mongers are really depressed.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : May I toss in something sober…? “From Reuters- just hit my alert screen. ANKARA, June 13 (Reuters) – Shi’te Muslim Iran is so alarmed by Sunni insurgent gains in Iraq that it may be willing to cooperate with Washington in helping Baghdad fight back, a senior Iranian official told Reuters. The idea is being discussed internally among the Islamic Republic’s leadership, the senior Iranian official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity. Officials say Iran will send its neighbor advisers and weaponry, although probably not troops, to help its ally Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki check what Tehran sees as a profound threat to regional stability, officials and analysts say.

  • KillgoreTrout : Moderation is the key, Miles. I recently spent time with my mom, and her 78 year old neighbor is dying to try some weed. This is in Mass and it will soon be available, medicinally. The neighbor lady cracked me up. She wants to have a “pot party.”

  • funksands : Anyone here like a good Bloody Mary?

  • funksands : You guys are cracking me up

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, the only green drink for me, apart from that artificial beer on St. Patrick’s day, is a glass of blonde beer with a shot of Vok Blue caracao poured in. Turns brilliant green with a white foam, tastes like lemonade,a dn has a kick like a mule. I invented it and call it a Shamrock. 2-drink limit!

  • seehowtheyrun : Yes, Kesmarn. it’s gorgeous, and it will last for years.

  • AdLib : Harleigh – Power bonging with oxygen? Just watch it when you light the bowl!

  • funksands : KT, my dad has an incredibly potent crop coming in this year. He’s been refining it over the last several years.

  • kesmarn : See, I’ll bet that teak chaise is MUCH prettier than the cheap stuff too. Well done!

  • MilesLong : I don’t necessarily do any drugs, I just used to like how some of them smelled…

  • Sabreen60 : Harleigh :D :D :D

  • Harleigh : When I hang out at the gym it’s with a bong over by the free oxygen tanks!

  • AdLib : glenn – Many here know my favorite, the pomegranate martini, shaking it up now for the Vox folks here.

  • MilesLong : KT: Not much any more.

  • funksands : :-)

  • seehowtheyrun : Adlib: Me too.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, with all of my years in the fast lane, a good two mile walk a day is about my limit!

  • Sabreen60 : Oh Funk! How could you? gah!

  • seehowtheyrun : Kesmarn: It’s going to be great. Not in stock. I went to all the cheap stores, which weren’t so cheap for the junk they were selling, so I went to a better store. Small business, teak furniture from a sustainable plantation, and it was on sale, so not much more than the cheap stuff. I can’t wait to take a nap on it!

  • AdLib : seehowtheyrun, glad it worked out for today!

  • KillgoreTrout : Weed Miles! Just joking.

  • funksands : :-)

  • MilesLong : KT: ?

  • Sabreen60 : KT, You’re a year older than me. Yea!! :D But I do hang out at the gym – doctor’s orders.

  • KillgoreTrout : Miles, ever consider a bit o the green?

  • glenn : Ad–Olives or onions? Not a drinker, so I think that is a choice for martinis.

  • funksands : Ad, I’ll get started

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi glenn, nice to meet you too.

  • kesmarn : Sabreen, some awesome pix of the Prez and FLOTUS there on the reservation. Thanks!

  • seehowtheyrun : yes, Sabreen, you can call me See.

  • funksands : Sabreen, for you: «link»

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi Ad lib! I’ve just finished a crazy work period, and I haven’t had a Friday off in a few months. Glad I could stop by.

  • KillgoreTrout : Vodka or gin, shaken or stirred?

  • Harleigh : AGE!? I’m a 66 year old balding lardass honkey from the hood!

  • pinkpantheroz : Talking about Native Americans, should Washington change its moniker?

  • MilesLong : Allergic to alcohol, but I’ll gladly be the designated driver…

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey, did anybody see the bear in the hammock last week? Too funny!

  • seehowtheyrun : Thanks Murph. Good to be here.

  • AdLib : Okay then, who’s mixing the martinis around here?

  • Sabreen60 : I meant to post this link, but I forgot – happens when you get old! PBO with Native Americans. «link»

  • seehowtheyrun : Hi FS. I finally got a Friday off, so I drop in here.

  • kesmarn : Wow… that sounds like a great day, See — especially the chaise lounge part of it!

  • glenn : seehowtheyrun–n ice to meet you.

  • funksands : 58 and raining here today. :-( No hike tomorrow

  • seehowtheyrun : Kesmarn: I pressed send too fast. How are you?

  • seehowtheyrun : Kesmarn: It’s been a great day. I had the day off, the weather is wonderful. I cleaned my patio and ordered a really nice chaise lounger for it! Now I’m going through the junk mail.

  • kesmarn : Now, boys (said Mrs. Cleaver) we have two radically different stories here on the age issue…

  • funksands : Hey see! Nice to see…you… (lame)

  • AdLib : Hey seehowtheyrun, great to see you at Vox!

  • Sabreen60 : Hiya See! Can I call you “See” for short?

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, seehow. welcome. we’re just jawing in general at the moment until Adlib tells us the next new subject :)

  • AdLib : Kes – Just started driving lessons!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : See How they Run….welcome to you….so good of you to join us.

  • funksands : Kes, I have met Ad, and he is far far far older than I am

  • Harleigh : Thanks for the welcome folks, I remember all y’all LOL

  • kesmarn : Hey, seehowtheyrun! How’s your Friday going?

  • KillgoreTrout : My favorite (well one of them) was once asked what his advice to humanity would be, and Mr. Vonnegut answered…”BE NICE!”

  • funksands : LMAORPTFCIMCASTC OF!!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk – you may be the youngest chronologically but you are way ahead of me in things techy and economic.

  • kesmarn : funk, AdLib is a mere child — a prodigy, yes — but still a child. So you might be tied for the youngest title.

  • seehowtheyrun : Hello everyone!

  • KillgoreTrout : ;) Murph!

  • pinkpantheroz : Miles, it can’t. I’d be glued here all the time and get nothing done. Weekly is great! Just think of the anticipation when 7.pm Friday comes around!

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, were you talking to me re what kids are calling it? If so, we called in hand-dancing in my neck of the woods since the 60’s.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT Vox a Poppin! LMAOROTF

  • glenn : Funkk–I hope you’re wrong about the lunacy, but I believe you’re right. Oops, I sound just like a rwnj–reality is what I hope and believe it is.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Harleigh! Nice avatar!

  • MilesLong : I’m curious. Is there any way the chat room here can be open 24/7?

  • funksands : I think I’m the youngest here. I like that.

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, than ks for the kudos. I do feel a heap younger than my years suggest!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh….I now know who you are. We engaged at HP several times in spirit discussion. Glad to have you here.

  • funksands : I remember at least 3 of those handles Harleigh

  • KillgoreTrout : Wow, this is VOX a POPPIN!

  • glenn : Harleigh–nice to meet you.

  • funksands : Hey Harleigh

  • Sabreen60 : Welcome Harleigh!

  • pinkpantheroz : Welcome, Harleigh! Don’t worry about that kind of stuff here. Noe we don’t have fans to begin with, and the only moderation is of bad manners and ad-hominem attacks. Go for it, mate!

  • AdLib : Hey Harleigh! Great to see you at Vox! Welcome!

  • funksands : Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Harleigh- welcome to the Vox at Planet!

  • KillgoreTrout : Damn Miles! My mom is going to be 85 in September! I’ll be 60 in August! I feel like a whipper snapper. (is that one word or two?)

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, I’m not lifting yet. Still just spinning and treadmill. Oh, and hand-dancing a little :)

  • funksands : Yes Glenn, I do. It will be a nightmare. Utter lunacy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : PPO- same comment as to Miles, you guys write young

  • AdLib : Talking about Repub possibilities for 2016, anyone see the video of Christie on the Tonight Show dancing. Wow, it was amusing but how desperate is that guy? He’ll be performing in a circus soon, maybe as The Incredible Lying Man.

  • funksands : Sabreen, it will peak with him as President and her as presumptive President. Everyone needs to decamp to their bunker after November 2016…

  • glenn : Funk–do you think we can have more seriously unhinged behavior in this country than we do now? OMG!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Miles…are you really nearly 85? You write like someone a lot younger…

  • Harleigh : Hi guys! Talk of Bush cabal war crime trials at the Hague got me banned from Huffnpuff! LOL That happened 6 times since that site started and we were fans. I was usually banned having around 2000 fans each time, once when I inquires why they responded that Powell and Rice are two of merikas most beloved politicians! LMAO When I asked for which office they refused reinstatement. over the years there I was hrholmes, badlib, gtidriver, librldem, rgateman, and finally back to harleigh. What a long strange trip it’s been huh?

  • pinkpantheroz : Miles, I ain’t that far behind!

  • MilesLong : PPO: You outa be better looking, I’m going on 85 years old!

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, do you think it’ll be worse than with PBO?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Miles…hah hah….PPO…Yuc k Yuck!

  • KillgoreTrout : Miles, brothers from a different mother?

  • pinkpantheroz : Murph, yes, we used to be taken for each other in the other place. Bu I think mine’s cuter! blush

  • MilesLong : Murph: Twin sons of different mothers…

  • KillgoreTrout : OK, who let Orville Redinbacher in here?

  • kesmarn : glenn! Good to see that you overcame the evil spirits in your computer that were blocking your comments.

  • funksands : Hey Sabreen, hows your back?

  • funksands : Crime and Punishment… ha ha, you are killing me :-)

  • Sabreen60 : kes, I’m well. Hope you are too!

  • MilesLong : Funk…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Miles and Pink- do you two know that you have the same avatar?

  • funksands : Hi Dbos, Miles, Kes

  • KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, in that district, he almost has to be!

  • AdLib : Hi Kes, great to see you!

  • Sabreen60 : Hey Funk!

  • kesmarn : Hey, dBos! How are you?

  • funksands : Ad, Hillary as President will lead to some seriously unhinged behavior in this country. I think we have to go through it to “shed our skin”, but I’m not looking forward to it.

  • MilesLong : Adlib…

  • AdLib : Hey Miles! Welcome!

  • MilesLong : Hey, Murph…

  • Sabreen60 : KT, yeah you’re right. I did read where he worked for Clinton. But I’m thinking he’s probably a Blue Dog.

  • kesmarn : I think it was “Crime and Punishment,” funk. I won’t say for whom. No, seriously — they were very cute. But there were 150 of them!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I see that MILES has joined us. Howdy!

  • Dbos : Hello everyone

  • pinkpantheroz : KT and mMiles, you’re right. We won’t have no truck with Socialist crap, but don’t touch my Social Securiy, Medicaiad and my new cover through the ACA!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : OK I am back….phone calls!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey HOMIE!

  • AdLib : glenn – Since again there won’t be a good reason to vote for a Repub in 2016, I expect the whole campaign will be negative, all about why people should vote against the Dem (probably Hillary)?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen, how are ya?

  • funksands : Kes, 3 Hours? What were they dancing? WW2?

  • glenn : Hey Kes! I made it to Vox!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, I’d worry more if he worked for them!

  • Sabreen60 : Kes is in the house!

  • MilesLong : Hi, Glenn!

  • KillgoreTrout : For sure Ad! NANANANANANANANA NA! I’m not listening to you! NANANANANANANA!

  • MilesLong : There is nothing in the makeup of a Republican that’s reality-based.

  • kesmarn : Good Friday the 13th, fellow Planeteers! Just home from the Fave’s dance recital. 3 HOURS…

  • funksands : “bootstraps for thee, not for me”

  • AdLib : KT – Try to tell a Repub that Ayn was on public assistance and they will stick their fingers in their ears and hum.

  • glenn : Hi Miles. Good to see you here on the Planet. I used to read your posts on that other-site-that- won’t-be-named- here.

  • funksands : Alright I’m back.

  • MilesLong : Just got off the air.

  • Sabreen60 : Hey Miles!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey it’s Miles (glad to see ya) Long! What’s up?

  • MilesLong : Jeb has too many gun-related skeletons in his closet…

  • Sabreen60 : KT, I don’t know. If contributes articles to the Washington Times, he’s kinda suspect. WT is the biggest RW rag in the DC Metro area.

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey there, Miles-keep it short- Long!

  • AdLib : And isn’t Jeb Bush ruled out now of any shot at 2016 since immigration is supposedly the issue that sunk Cantor with Repubs?

  • KillgoreTrout : pink, I think it all depends on what’s being done and what’s being taught!

  • MilesLong : PPO: Nothing really. They two of them are simply another case of Ego far in excess of talent.

  • KillgoreTrout : I’m sure you’re right Sabreen. Hypocrisy, thy name is tea bagger!

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, what’s the old saying: ‘those that can, do. those that can’t, teach” So now we have two Professors fighting to be elected. What am I missing here?

  • glenn : Ad–not so sure the gop is frightened of the t/party as they are seeing their power slip away to t/party hands. And the “smarter” ones know that if the t/p takes over,then the gop is doomed for sure. Oh well, I guess I just proved your point, didn’t I? If Rand Paul runs, do you think the new mantra will be “anyone but a Dem” like “anyone but Obama”?

  • Sabreen60 : KT, They know, I’m sure. It just goes with the rest of their hypocrisy.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, a “Latter Day Saint?”

  • KillgoreTrout : I wonder if Brat and his fellow Libertarians know that Ayn Rand was on public assistance in her latter years.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks Sabreen. I hope Trammel isn’t a DINO!

  • AdLib : SO now that the GOP is (wrongly) frightened of the Tea Party, any bets about a Tea Partier winning the 2016 Repub nom for President? Maybe Rand Paul?

  • AdLib : KT – As Brat Jesus said, “Blessed are the makers for they shall inherit the Earth.”

  • Sabreen60 : Kt, Yep. His website needs a little work. «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : I love it Ad! Perfect Stewart/Colbert humor.

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly Ad. A Randian Jeebus would blow up his own low income housing project!

  • AdLib : KT, yes he is. I think it was Jon Stewart or Colbert who noted, “That must be a bad college if all the professors are looking for another job.”

  • KillgoreTrout : Isn’t Brat’s dem opponent also a professor at the same college?

  • AdLib : So according to Brat (waiting for a Tea Partier named “Jerk” to be elected in another RW district), Jesus would blow up a church that wasn’t built to his exact design? Jesus of Fountainhead?

  • Sabreen60 : Please excuse all the typos. My fingers are working faster than my brain as usual.

  • glenn : All–brb

  • KillgoreTrout : Well done Sabreen!

  • Sabreen60 : KT, I totally agree. I wish voted was required as it is in certain South American countries. BTW, we voted today! Thank you Maryland!

  • AdLib : glenn – Absolutely, we should all be aggressive in encouraging others to vote and encourage others. If Cantor can be beaten in his district, who knows which other sitting Repubs could be defeated?

  • glenn : KT–LOL–a Randian/Jeebus!

  • KillgoreTrout : That’s true Ad. He wants a Randian/Jebus.

  • Sabreen60 : yes, glenn they do.

  • AdLib : Sabreen, I read an article about Brat and he has a twisted, Dominionist view of Christianity, that it should be merged with Capitalism and if Jesus was around today, he wouldn’t believe in helping the needy, he’d believe in self-sufficiency . Really, that’s what this nutjob believes!

  • KillgoreTrout : When I see the outright dangers people in other countries face, just to go out and vote, knowing they could be KILLED by doing so, it makes me ashamed of so many of my fellow countrymen/women .

  • Sabreen60 : PPO, absolutely. But his guy Brat definitely would love it we became a theocracy. Plus, he believes every last RWJN talking point.

  • glenn : Sabreen–thanks for the info. My reading of the news has been “hit or miss” this week. That, apparently, was one of my “misses.” But they do teach at the same university, right?

  • glenn : Ad–with all the new members here on the Planet, and your skills of persuasion, we should make sure we reiterate every day in every way we can, how important it is to GOTV.

  • KillgoreTrout : For sure Sabreen. Rand was a self professed ATHEIST!

  • AdLib : ppo – If we work hard to change the Governorships and legislatures in swing states especially, like FL, MI, PA, OH and WI, when the new census is done in 2020, Dems would be in a position to redraw districts so they are not as slanted to the Repubs and Dem districts and competitive districts will rise and the tortured drawing of Repub-safe districts will evaporate and leave Repubs in the minority they should be.

  • pinkpantheroz : Sabreen, I agree. It also give me the irrits that ‘faith’ has any place in politics.

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, No, Brat is suppose to be an economics teacher. Trammell teaches sociology, I believe.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well Ad, the smart ones anyhow. Who was it that said “Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people?”

  • Sabreen60 : AdLib, I understand that Cato (I believe) gave $500,000 to the college where Brat teaches so he can teach a class about Ayn Rand and Libertarianism. Still don’t know how you justify being a Christian and a follower of Ayn Rand.

  • glenn : Sabreen–I agree; I’m not thrilled with Dem organizations, either. If indeed it is true that the Dems are the ones who helped defeat Cantor; then it makes sense to me that if they got organized and pointed out Brat’s deficiencies, and if pubs stayed home and let the t/partiers vote; then Dems would have a good chance of taking that seat. Isn’t Brat’s opponent also an economics professor at the same university?

  • AdLib : ppo – Absolutely, we should use the extremism of the TP to rally a big GOTV effort with Dems and Indies but I don’t agree that they represent a large population. Their influence is magnified by gerrymandering and sparsely populated states like Wyoming having as many Senators as CA and NY. In truth, the majority of Americans have a negative view of the TP.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- but to make 2020 count the way it should we have to hold the GOP at bay in the Senate races and in Governors seats (and their associated legislatures)

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, that’s the nasty thing about Brat. He’s a religious nutbag AND a Randian. Sounds pretty TP to me.

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, can you please explain how redistricting will change the landscape? Can’t they gerrymander that as well?

  • Sabreen60 : glenn, I’ve heard some not-so-good news coming out the DCCC that they don’t think Trammell has got a chance in District 7. Therefore, folks on Twitter are asking people to donate to Trammell. I’m not feeling thrilled with Democratic organizations.

  • AdLib : And it wasn’t lost on me that Brat kept claiming it was a religious miracle and thanks to God (that he beat a Jew).

  • AdLib : Murph – Exactly but it is a house of cards that will collapse in the next redistricting… hate to say we have to wait until 2020 but until the GOP can rightly take its place as a minority party but that may be what it takes.

  • pinkpantheroz : the increasing dominence of the TP is getting a bit scary. Imagine a load of ignorami trying to run the country? We need to get out the vote, and I, for one, even from as far away as I am, is urging my friends to GETV, Pronto!

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, we can dream! From what I hear, that’s a pretty solid red district.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- the GOP as the permanent minority party in the population while rigging the laws too magnify their influence

  • AdLib : Hey Sabreen! That is very enlightening and makes enormous sense! Really appreciate the insight!

  • glenn : Sabreen–I hope the Dems are just as organized about voting for the Dem candidate opposing Brat. Wouldn’t it be great to see Brat defeated, too?

  • Sabreen60 : KT, that’s right. In Virginia, voters are not required to register for a particular party. It’s an open primary.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : In the flurry of the howdies I just want to repeat: <b>Did you all know that with the loss of Cantor…..every GOP member of the House is a WHITE CHRISTIAN….and in the Senate it is all but ONE, Scott. </b>

  • AdLib : Murph – That is exactly the article I had planned to write this week and might next week, the longer the Tea Party has influence, the weaker they will be as a national party because of their anti-Latino and anti-women policies.

  • Sabreen60 : Welcome Dbos!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Howdy Do Dbos and Sabreen!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen! Great point. The election didn’t go by voter registration party affiliation.

  • AdLib : Hey Dbos!

  • glenn : Hi Dbos–nice to “meet” you.

  • glenn : Hiya Sabreen!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Did you all know that with the loss of Cantor…..every GOP member of the House is a WHITE CHRISTIAN….and in the Senate it is all but ONE, Scott.

  • Sabreen60 : Hiya Planeteers! I read the comments and it seems that politics is subject of interest :D My hubby’s cousin lives in Lousia County (Cantor’s District) and said that Dems held meetings and decided to vote for Brat. I don’t know many, but seems to believe a lot. Also, if you get a chance take a peek at The Obama Diary. There are many wonder pictures of President Obama at the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation. Of course the MSM didn’t cover it.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Dbos!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- the right wing anti-immigrants in the GOP have seized upon Cantor’s loss to kill any support for reform….furthe r marginalizing the GOP…

  • Dbos : Mc cain wanted to bomb the jihadists ; goofy comment the Iranians are fighting with the government; so he wanted to bomb the people other than Iran; this man is wandering around the USA making showing what a fool he is.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not to sound like too much of a conspiracy theorist, but I can’t help seeing the assassinations of both Kennedy brothers as an attempted and possibly successful coup.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, that’s just it, I haven’t actually seen anything other than a landmark defeat. I sometimes just wonder about things like this.

  • AdLib : Murph – True, tools they are! I think what we’ll see over the next couple of years is broader support for Dems but more intense support for the RW nutjobs in the shrinking red districts. A stronger concentration of RW extremists in smaller and smaller areas as Latinos and others dilute them as a percentage of the population.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL- “I have the feeling that when Cantor is shaking hands in crowd he is wearing one of those see-through gloves that nurses wear and he till has an aide spraying Germ X on him at regular intervals. He think we are nasty.” Quote from an interview on election night from a voter.

  • glenn : KT–you have a point, but I truly hate sounding like the t/partiers themselves; seeing a conspiracy in everything. On the other hand, progressives and Dems not taking the crazies seriously has led to some serious consequences.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, in a word? Fanaticism! Political and ideological fanaticism. As I said, I’m simply speculating.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- Just watch Cantor walk, speak or even just stand there- it’s gonna piss you off if you are an ordinary guy….and that’s Cantor constituency.

  • KillgoreTrout : Knowing how radical the big guys in the TP are, I wouldn’t say a coup of some sort is beyond the realm of possibility.

  • glenn : KT–not to belabor the point, but what makes you think there is some sort of coup going on–other than the t/partiers being themselves?

  • AdLib : KT – If the Tea Party was resurgent, why did they lose so hugely against Mitch McConnell, even more establishment for a longer time than Cantor?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT and AD- With the GOP we cannot be fooled by these Tea Party and Establishment labels…the puppet masters remain the same.

  • KillgoreTrout : Call it a hunch!

  • glenn : Murph–perhaps some of those who voted for Brat were unhappy gop. But it seems to me that the gop is always unhappy about something; so what’s the difference? Oops! wrong phrase! :)

  • KillgoreTrout : I’m not as sure about that as you are Ad.

  • AdLib : KT – The problem with pundits and politicians is that every little thing that happens, they exaggerate into having great meaning. Consider, Tea Party candidates have lost a a number of primaries to mainstream Repubs, one Tea Partier wins one race, in a particularly RW district and suddenly, “The the Tea Party is back in power!” Nope, one election and district defines nothing else.

  • KillgoreTrout : Not that I know of glenn. I’m just speculating. I will say though, if there is some sort of coup going on, why would the perpetrators care about a little thing called voting laws or election rules?

  • funksands : Folks I have to step away for a bit. Hope to be back soon.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk- I wonder how many of those were unhappy GOP.

  • pinkpantheroz : Back soon. Coffee break!

  • glenn : KT–that “election fraud” meme worries me some. Is there any proof of that?

  • funksands : Murph, the 2012 opponent of Cantor got 42% of the voter. Powell got 158,000 votes. That seems pretty good.

  • glenn : Funk–or we could just take McCain’s salary and use that to help some refugees.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- yes, there was some Dem crossover but the district has so few Dems that the impact was small.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, the article did not elaborate on what that “supposed,” money was spent on. How about election fraud?

  • funksands : Glenn, we should buy them each a house and $20k in seed money along with a “Welcome Neighbor” cake.

  • pinkpantheroz : funk. I don’t understand what you’re saying. It’s the Iraqis who are fighting this fight. The US should leave them to it. Oh, riiight, it’s not the people of Iraq at all, is it? It’s the OIL! Well, of course Send In The Drones!

  • funksands : Murph, I buy that argument. I also think that quite a few Dems, thinking their candidate had not hope against Cantor voted for his opponent in the primary

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- What was that dark money spent on? Not ads, not polling, not event, not campaign pros, it was a real grass root effort.

  • glenn : Funk–are you talking about–gasp–imm igrants? That just cannot be, dontcha know?

  • KillgoreTrout : Exactly funk!

  • funksands : KT, ah yes, the “both sides” folks. Its a convenient rationalization for doing nothing and excusing sitting on your ass while radicals burn you country to the ground.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I read an article that said there was possibly a lot of “dark money,” helping Brat along. He had, officially only 200k, and Cantor had 5 mill! Say WHAT? Supposedly that dark money came from, who else, the Kochs.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Iraq- we have an aircraft carrier squadron 10 hours from the Persian Gulf right now- we will do enough to show that we did not abandon Malicki, but there will be three countries where there now is one in 6 months.

  • glenn : PPO–thanks

  • funksands : Glenn, yes we should open our doors to any and all war refugees from Iraq. That should be the level of our involvment.

  • KillgoreTrout : That would make a lot of new independents and that could seriously fuck up the dems in 2016.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- I happen to know someone in Va. He says that Brat had virtually no TP identification/a ffiliation and very little backing but that Cantor was despised. ANYONE but ERIC had become a mantra- how bad can a economic professor for a fine liberal arts college be? Cantor was holding fund raisers in DC on election day. He was virtually invisible in his district and hiss manner of speaking and carrying himself was so condescending and arrogant that he could no longer be stomached. He saw himself as the Speaker of the House Presumptive….

  • pinkpantheroz : Glenn, if you do it, be sure to isolate the pad bit by Alt. F9.

  • glenn : All–so is there anyone here who thinks we should be involved in Iraq in any way?

  • KillgoreTrout : I agree Ad, but I think the GOPTP is really convincing people that BOTH parties are causing all the shyte.

  • funksands : Can you believe that Obama is squandering all of the gains in Iraq our troops bled for? The nerve of that guy.

  • funksands : Ad/Murph thanks for your open eyes, but please let my stuff lead you on your own journey.

  • KillgoreTrout : No doubt pink. And especially with all this new trouble brewing in Iraq.

  • AdLib : I was going to write an article on this before Iraq went crazy but the defeat of Cantor by a Tea Party Brat sets the table for a Tea Party candidate winning or strongly influencing the positions of the 2016 GOP candidate and that would assure a Dem victory.

  • glenn : PPO–oh, I didn’t even know that was an option; I’m just technologically “stunted”. I’ll do that tomorrow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- I admit you have turned me on to what I am thinking of as advanced Keynesian theory.

  • funksands : The extremes of both wings of the parties are the ones that are politically active, the vast middle is disgusted, cynical, lazy and uninvolved. Mid-terms exacerbate the problem

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, the seeming ease in which Brat toppled Cantor and many of the nutbags saying Cantor was too moderate. The right is still moving even further right. If that’s possible.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, I fear you will be found correct. Imagine the current crop of useless pollies we have now. Now figure in the coup and we could end up with a huge crop of useless, Dangerous pollies. tha USA can’t and musn’t let that happen.

  • AdLib : Funk – I’m keeping an open mind myself and genuinely becoming smarter about this thanks to you!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- what is leading you to think this re. the TP.

  • funksands : Thanks Ad. Murph, I’m enjoying dissecting the critique of MMT article you linked to me.

  • glenn : Murph–thank you. I am so touched that you reached out to me to tell me how you missed my presence here on Vox.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, I just envision some grand, underground TP movement to oust any and all incumbents. A Coup de tat if you will.

  • pinkpantheroz : Glenn, I hate those pads, so bought a mouse and plugged it in the side and it’s so much better.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- and you don’t? We know differently, do we not.

  • funksands : Murph, you simply have more important real stuff to be worried about.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- such a pleasure to have you back!

  • AdLib : Funk! Great series of articles! Will be adding a comment to your latest!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk- then what the heck am I….peasant in the mud.

  • glenn : Funk–mostly. I still have trouble using a mouse pad, as opposed to a mouse. And the keyboard is a lot smaller, so I may make a lot of mistakes when I get “jazzed up” about a comment. :)

  • funksands : Ad, he seems like he’s trying fill an empty hole inside…

  • funksands : Murph, aspiring novice

  • AdLib : ppo – I believe there was a study that compulsive hating can turn you into a hateful old man. McCain responded that he hated that study.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : FUNK- the macro-eco master.

  • funksands : Hi Pink!

  • KillgoreTrout : All of them!

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, funk!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- all of who? house, senate, governor?

  • funksands : I see Glenn has figure out her gizmo!

  • KillgoreTrout : All of them Murph. Is there some grand conspiracy afoot among the baggers?

  • AdLib : So apparently, there may not be more than 900 ISIS fighters and the Iraqi Armed Forces have 30k forces. They may not want to fight for their Shia leader who hates them.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, I think they very much are, but what kind of GOP will we get if the TP’ers prevail? I’m worried for the country looking at how many are already buggering things up.

  • glenn : Okay, got it. I thought it was something like that. It’s just like we’ve never traded anything for POWs, either, right?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT, I meant which of the incumbent are you thinking of?

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, nobody really knew what winning would look like. And we still don’t know. Ain’t that a bitch!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT which one?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, we won it just like we won the war in Vietnam. Simple.

  • glenn : Murph, since you’re the history expert here, can you tell me how we “won” the war in Iraq?

  • KillgoreTrout : OK folks, are in the incumbents in real trouble, on the right?

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, maybe it’s all those concussions he suffered that’s made him the way he is.

  • KillgoreTrout : Funny stuff pink, thanks for the link!

  • AdLib : ppo – McCain never met a plane he couldn’t crash.

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, good Idea, but a complete waste of a Multi-squillion aircraft. He’d prang it before he’d get half way!

  • AdLib : I know, why don’t we agree to go to war again in Iraq if McCain agrees to go to war again with the military and fly a plane over Iraq.

  • pinkpantheroz : KT, «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Would that be an Idle Half Bee?

  • KillgoreTrout : I gotcha Ad.

  • AdLib : ABC, 123, Eric the half a bee.

  • AdLib : KT – Just trying a little system something this weekend by not using the sidebar for Vox. I was parodying the old song, “Insane in the Membrane”, meaning brain.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oooops. I missed that one. No matter.

  • pinkpantheroz : Sorry, KT, Monty Python moment!

  • KillgoreTrout : Half a Bee?

  • AdLib : Murph – McCain blew almost everything that was handed to him. Amazing he’s still a Senator.

  • glenn : hey murph; hey kt–I’m so glad to be back on vox! I’ll brb

  • pinkpantheroz : Well, we gotta have a chat about ‘poor’ Eric the Half a Bee!

  • KillgoreTrout : What’s up pink? Hope all is well down under?

  • AdLib : ppo – Great to hear but you and all our members are all just as sharp. Great to have such clever new members!

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, KT, good to see you.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…YOU PASSED the TEST!

  • glenn : PPO and Ad–haven’t been able to follow much of the newbies posts, but from what I’ve seen, you’re right, they’re great. Lots of interesting new input.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey folks! Who’s membrane? What happened to the sidebar?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : McCain- the thing to keep in mind that he has spent his life trying to undo his failed missions in the skies over Vietnam.

  • pinkpantheroz : Ad, I’ve been following the great posts this week from the newbies and to be honest, they’re REALLY good. It’s a bit intimidating

  • glenn : Ad–Yea! I made it!

  • AdLib : GLENN!!!!

  • AdLib : They’ll be here!

  • glenn : testing

  • pinkpantheroz : hey, Ad. where’s everyone gone?

  • AdLib : Hey PPO! Welcome to you too!!!

  • pinkpantheroz : Hey, glenn I see you’re back without those gremlins!

  • pinkpantheroz : HI! Welcome to all new posters and Huffugees.

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Hi!” or “McCain in the Membrane!” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PDT on our Vox Populi page, located under Live Events. So much to talk about, hope to see you then!

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