Vox Populi – 12-20-2024

Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PT. Hope to see you then!

AdLib4 hours ago

Hey CL!

AdLib2 hours ago

Hi, TW and Ad. How are you?

choicelady

2 hours ago

Hey

twilson117

2 hours ago

Doing okay. You?

AdLib2 hours ago

Hey CL

twilson117

2 hours ago

I am righteous – all Christmas stuff done. Peace reigns on my land.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Doing okay given what we are seeing playing out in DC

twilson117

2 hours ago

As I mentioned earlier to CL, this CR that passed The House tonight gave me a surprising moment of optimism.

AdLib2 hours ago

TW – I am quite pleased the Dems hung in a skunked Musk and Trump pretty much totally.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL it was good to see.

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL – I think I’m done with my shopping…because my shopping is definitely done with me.

AdLib2 hours ago

Apparently our advice to Dems – let them eat their own – is actually what Dems are doing.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL Peace and good will I hope

twilson117

2 hours ago

Ad – I know the feeling about shopping. When I was a kid, I LOVED shopping for presents for my folks and my brother. The bloom is long ago off that rose.

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – as much peace and goodwill as a body can muster these days.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL well given what happened and what we are about to face we need all we can get now so we can keep our powder dry and watch the Repugs implolde as I have to beleive they will. Trump has no plan for the country other than tax breaks for his friends.

twilson117

2 hours ago

My SIL, brother’s wife, I do not like. She has the need to be one up on everyone. I got presents from them in NOVEMBER because that way, she wins. What she wins has never, in the 50 years I’ve known her, ever been clear.

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – totally agree.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I was ready to declare our Democracy officially ended and Plutocracy begun had Repubs followed Musk’s dictate. Instead, I realized the future isn’t written (as they say in Sci Fi shows) and Repubs in The House are aware that doing extreme things to devastate the public will result in their losing support and their seats and power. This changes everything.

AdLib2 hours ago

CL – i enjoy giving gifts the most but as everyone in the family gets older and years past, it becomes harder and harder to figure out what to get them this year. A real struggle this year for me but I squeezed out a few ideas but not a lot. The annoying part is figuring out what to buy, not the buying.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – I think that is spot ON. I have long tried to persuade activists that being an advocate w your Reps is powerful esp. in coalitions. Repeated contact, week in, week out, means a lot because VOTES outweigh money. Nobody much believes me, but it’s actually true. If people in a district only realized the power they have, they could move mountains.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – Your SIL is SILLly.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – I agree. As my family dwindled and got further away, knowing what to buy gets very hard. This year I sent Harry and David gift baskets to EVERYONE. Same damned thing. I know they will like them, they don’t know one another, and all is well.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Ad – my SIL is a pain in the rear. Only reason I care for her at all is that she has put up with my brother all these years.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – I shared with TW, I’m thinking of writing an article recommending the winning strategy to defeat the oncoming Trump Hell is to do Muhammad Ali’s “Rope-A-Dope”. Save our energy right now (aside from threatening Repubs on voting for insane bills) and let Trump and cronies “punch themselves out” with the public, making a big majority pissed off and suffering. Then we come off the ropes and with a big majority behind us, pound him and Repubs into the canvas.

AdLib2 hours ago

MURPH!!!

choicelady

2 hours ago

Hey Murph!

AdLib2 hours ago

Well, I have to say I do not have that problem as Christmas is not something I celebrate, but I will this, I do enjoy the time when it seems to be quite I find I can do some reflecting on what I would like to get done going forward. As to why I don’t celebrate Christmas it’s a JW thing. Even though I am no longer a practicing member once a JW always unless you do something to get kicked out and that’s not in my thuoghts also if I did my wife would though me out.

twilson117

2 hours ago

Ad – I LIKE IT!

choicelady

2 hours ago

Murph is in the house let the party start.

twilson117

2 hours ago

Hello, Murph – how are you?

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – I have the tequila. Did you bring the salt?

choicelady

2 hours ago

The salt and the chips

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL – Yes! I sent Harry & David baskets to my niece and nephew (and their families), quick, easy, sent on Black Friday so discounted and done!

AdLib2 hours ago

TW – Perfect. Good man!

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – That’s walking a fine line but you’ve been a long time tightrope walker!

AdLib2 hours ago

Hello…one and all….I just finished reading through the conversation you have been having……

MurphTheSurf3

2 hours ago

Murph – it’s OK if you don’t want to comment on my rather rancid sister in law. All else if fair game.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Ad yeah it is but what the hell. God is real to me as you and I have discussed, Religion as I have written about isn’t so what does one do? Be true to thy self right?

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL….rancid sisters in law……I have a few folks who fit into that description…

MurphTheSurf3

2 hours ago

TW – be true to thyself.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Murph – my SIL is ostensibly liberal but there’s a streak of mean in her I simply can’t tolerate.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL…those who chat in one tongue but who operate in another…galling.

MurphTheSurf3

2 hours ago

CL – I’ve concluded that the people who aren’t racists but voted for Trump are just stupid people, easily conned by an obvious conman. They were too stupid to figure out his lies despite so many in the media explaining it was all BS. Despite Trump being a racist, rapist, and 34 count convicted criminal. They can’t be convinced by logic or facts. Someone tells them they can magically make their lives better, they stupidly nod and say, “I’m for the guy who will wave the magic wand and make my life better!” The only thing that can pursuade them to turn on Trump…is suffering. And the suffering is coming, in fact the stock market falling shows it’s started. When these stupid people suffer, they will do what they did to Biden, blame whoever is in power for their dissatisfaction, losing their jobs, seeing inflation skyrocket. THEN, once they turn against Trump, that’s when a rested and recharged Dem base leads the attack to bring him and the Repubs down.

AdLib2 hours ago

Tw – one of the women I worked with in the 80s and 90s was JW, and just about one of my all time fave people. It was at a museum, and she never came to the parties. And I loved her with all my heart. How you live your faith is not germane to anyone else.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL that is what I say. Besides I’m not doing anything that will get me into trouble with them, it isn’t worth it at all. Which is as I’ve said to Ad and written about I believe in God, but I have a strong dislike for religion for a number of reasons. And I will keep writing about it as long as I can still see and type.

twilson117

2 hours ago

TW – Never a wiser thing has been said, be true to yourself.

AdLib2 hours ago

OK – it’s not germane unless you’re shoving it down my throat which most JWs do not do. I like the people who come to my door. They are kind. What’s not to like about kindness?

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – As we’ve seen on social media and in Bernie Bros and back years with PUMAs, just because someone claims to be a liberal, a Dem, Progressive, etc., it doesn’t mean they’re not a jerk.

AdLib2 hours ago

I am more comfortable with religion since I started working 20 plus years ago for the Council of Churches. They are all so open-hearted and loving I have no difficulty with them. I do not belong to a church though tomorrow night we’re going to the Episcopal Cathedral for “Nine Lessons and Carols” because it’s so beautiful. But I am a “Matthew 25” Christian – to me, that’s the foundation. “As ye have done unto the least of these…” I have no worries about my immortal soul. What is, is. Being a good person following the teachings, if I leave the world better than I found it? Then I’ve done what was asked of me.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I say this as a principle of mine, not with any animosity or a critique of any particular religion/political party/organization, , I don’t like proselytization.

AdLib2 hours ago

CL that is the thing about the faith let people make their own choices. But, here is thing about religion that gets to me is how some people proclaim to be doing things in God’s name but are horrible people like saying they want this tobe a Christian nation. As I’ve said and written, which Christian religion will the nation follow?

twilson117

2 hours ago

Ad in the end it’s all we can really do right?

twilson117

2 hours ago

Ad – I had totally forgotten PUMAs!!! Yes – the adoption of a label doesn’t actually make you a good person. Just a labeled jerk. That would kind of describe my SIL.

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – It’s the best that we can do as well, being true to ourselves, principles, and beliefs.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – right there with you!

choicelady

2 hours ago

What happened to Murph?

AdLib2 hours ago

TW – I grew up in the town where Billy Graham went to college, and I was done with them and that by my teen years. They too often represent “a mouth full of scripture, a heart full of hate”. The Founders had it right – we are a nation where we are free to be whatever but not a whatever nation.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Don’t know – Murph are you there?

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – It’s a Venn diagram, one circle is that of “Dems” and the other is that of “Good People”. They do overlap but not completely.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – that’s the truth.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Murph’s avatar sometimes drops off while Murph stays.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I VERY much want to hear what’s going on with the new community and/or land trust with Murph.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – The Founders had just fought to free themselves from the tyranny of the absolutism of one religion dominating their lives. They knew that there is no freedom in allowing that to return.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – very true!

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL I hated Billy Graham I thought he was the biggest fake going and that was when I was in my teens, just something about him never ever rang true to me.

twilson117

2 hours ago

Tw – I had the same reaction to Billy, but looking at his son, Franklin, Billy now seems benign.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I might suggest that the egotism of hugely famous preachers is the antithesis of what a religious leader should be. There should be humility before God, not competition.

AdLib2 hours ago

I rather liked Ruth Graham when I read some of her bio. She said life w him was highly frustrating. Then she added, “Did I ever consider divorce? No. Murder? Yes.!” I quite respect that view.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – That is hilarious!!!

AdLib2 hours ago

CL – Off topic but did your email get sorted yet?

AdLib2 hours ago

I work with mainline Protestants and one has to have a pretty forceful personality to do it, but it is not required you be a flaming asshole.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Ad – Nope. Can’t import the old stuff, and Rick is up to his eyeballs in Christmas prep. After the first of the year. I REALLY need some of it, but it CAN wait.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I am getting current mail. No problems there.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – I’m not saying a religious leader shouldn’t be charismatic, strong, or even entertaining. I’m saying that hubris is corrosive to being a principled religious leader.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad – that is a very wise distinction.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Cl I saw a bit of Elmer Ganty in every revival meeting that use to come the Syracuse what a side show and what a bunch of nonsense. Always good for a barrel of laughs.

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL – It’s actually so quick and easy for Rick to do but he still has to find the time.

AdLib2 hours ago

CL – Coming from you, I know I’m on the right track!

AdLib2 hours ago

Did you ever see the Steve Martin movie “Leap of Faith” about the snakeoil revivalist who discovers a kid who is “the real deal”? It’s actually charming and while critical of the Elmer Gantry types holds a flicker of respect for the truly committed.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Did you see that religious extremist MAGAs in SC have proposed a bill to make women who have abortions suffer the death penalty? I’m sure that will fill their churches.

AdLib2 hours ago

Ad what your saying is in a minor way how people behave at some of these revival meetings that would roll in and heal people that weren’t really sick why they left town with their pocket stuff and off looking for the next sucker.

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL – I never saw Leap of Faith but I’ll check it out.

AdLib2 hours ago

If he does it at the office, will it migrate to my obsolete computer at home? We can do this after the New Year. He’s absolutely overwhelmed right now.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I think I have the name of the film correct. It’s quite nice.

choicelady

2 hours ago

I’m not anti religion. I’m anti sucko religion. And I stand on my right to be biased about that.

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – Yes, the speaking in tongues, messing with snakes, laying on of hands, it’s like a bad local variety show at the community theater/tent that the followers get ecstatic about but is clearly about separating the rubes from their money.

AdLib2 hours ago

I lived a few miles from Estill Springs, TN, home of the snake handlers. It was THE weirdest town I’ve ever been in. You can see why.

choicelady

2 hours ago

CL – Yes, your email resides on the server, once he transfers your older emails to the new account, they will be on the server and you will instantly see them.

AdLib2 hours ago

Cool beans. After Christmas that probably should be doable.

choicelady

2 hours ago

Speaking of Christmas we had a bit of snow up here in Ma.

twilson117

2 hours ago

CL – That had to be weirder than weird. I mean, these people actually believe in the Christian spirituality…of taunting snakes! As I said about Trump supporters, stupid is as stupid does. The Bible speaks of so many meainingful principles and insights and what they got out of it instead is flirting with snakes is what Jesus wants us to do.

AdLib2 hours ago

I guessing folks are hoping for a White Christmas

twilson117

2 hours ago

TW – I SAW that! I miss those gentle early snows. I probably will never see them again. I love MA in early winter. I don’t love ANYWHERE in later storms!

choicelady

2 hours ago

TW – I could make a joke about MAGAs but I won’t.

AdLib2 hours ago

Most of today’s Christian Nationalists are not Christian at all. They are in love with the OT and I call them “Old Testamentarians” without a lick of rabbinical wisdom. They love tribalism, smitings, violence. They SAY that Jesus was a wuss, and the teachings are ‘weak’. So they use Christianity as a brand and Jesus as a mascot. Nothing else.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL as I’ve said many times I grew up in Syracuse NY and I remember the winters there they could be brutal and they never canceled school. It wasn’t fun trudging through the snow walking to school.

twilson117

an hour ago

One Christmas, when my daughter was a toddler, we went up to Big Bear, in the snow and mountains, for Christmas. It is a fond memory. Instead, this week it’s been warm and in the mid to high 70’s here in LA. I like it though.

AdLiban hour ago

Murph we missed you.

twilson117

an hour ago

CL – I’ve observed that as well but your expert insight on the “Old Testamentarians” is a valued confirmation.

AdLiban hour ago

TW – west of Chicago, same thing. We had ONE snow day my whole life. I walked over a mile from Jr. High home and 1.5 miles from the HS. I played cello, and when I took it home for the weekend, I pulled out the metal peg in the bottom and used it as a piton on the ice.

choicelady

an hour ago

MURPH!

choicelady

an hour ago

Hey Murph! Glad you’re back!

AdLiban hour ago

Sorry…phone call.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Murph you did remember to bring the pizza this time right?

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – how are things there?

choicelady

an hour ago

I brought Christmas cookies tonight! Enjoy!

AdLiban hour ago

Ad – we have a feast!

choicelady

an hour ago

AdLiban hour ago

Hey Murph, did you put this on the bar?

AdLiban hour ago

Cool! All calorie and gluten free right?

choicelady

an hour ago

How are things here…..depends on the day and the hour.’

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Murph – so, what’s going on?

choicelady

an hour ago

Ad save me a slice

twilson117

an hour ago

CL – I guarantee, none of this will put a pound on you.

AdLiban hour ago

Air calories. Perfect

choicelady

an hour ago

TW – Fed-Ex-ing a slaice to you overnight!

AdLiban hour ago

Best kind of calories

twilson117

an hour ago

CL – Virtual calories. All the imaginary taste with none of the calories.

AdLiban hour ago

Conversation re. options….are the order of the day. Many voices.’

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad What?? You know the drive will eat it.

twilson117

an hour ago

TW – Then I’ll Fed-Ex you two slices, assuming the driver will eat one.

AdLiban hour ago

CL’s wisdom and experience have set a tone for the discussion.’

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad that works

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – as frustrating as that might be, I think getting it hammered out now is good. Beats someone coming in months later and disrupting it all.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – Does CL’s suggestion of a land trust have much traction?

AdLiban hour ago

Murph – is that GOOD? Hope so!

choicelady

an hour ago

CL….indeed….and your notion of a land trust has created a lot of discussion.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Murph I would have to agree talking is better than not all things considered.

twilson117

an hour ago

Ad…..the land trust concept is driving a lot of the discussion right now.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

I’m really glad. HOW you shape a trust is pretty wide open. Do NOT want to put someone who needs money to leave (go to a retirement home) to be locked out of that. That’s why an attorney is really needed in a multi-party situation. Devil is in the details.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph sounds like folks are digging into it. That’s good thing right?

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – That’s good to hear. Whatever decision the group decides on, having a concrete, viable option makes arriving on a reasoned decision more likely.

AdLiban hour ago

Please please use your attorney who, if he’s wise, will consult others on this. Has anyone talked to the Land Trust Alliance to see if they offer help?

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph sounds like you have more viable and flexible options.

twilson117

an hour ago

What I am finding of particular interest is how quickly concerns about the reality of Trumpism driving the state of the state have quickly become what drives much of the discussion….on both sides.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

CL – Good advice! And the provisions for leaving or dissolving the trust need to be very thoughtful and clear, to preserve the best intentions of it.

AdLiban hour ago

Murph – wow. Are the MAGA folks seeing the dangers to them?

choicelady

an hour ago

Ad – that’s why God invented lawyers.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph can you expand a bit?

twilson117

an hour ago

The attorney who worked for the Co-Op is on board. He is in contact with the Land Trust Alliance.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

CL I thought it was the Devil would have plenty of company.

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – WHOOPEE! THAT is perfect, IMHO.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – Very interesting to hear that. Don’t know if you read my thoughts about this upcoming year earlier on but I think as Trump takes office and starts destroying the economy and people’s lives, the con will evaporate and the country will largely turn against him and Repubs.

AdLiban hour ago

TW =

choicelady

an hour ago

Among those who have entered into this discussion are several of the big community leaders who were loud Trump supporters.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad – that may be, but so much harm can occur along the way. Murph and his friends are right to protect themselves.

choicelady

an hour ago

What is their take on all this?

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – I thought God invented lawyers to prepare people who end up meeting Satan.

AdLiban hour ago

Ad – false story. It’s to do Land Trusts. It’s in Deuteronomy. Swear to it.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph how much of a concern is there for having the loud Trump supports part of the discussion?

twilson117

an hour ago

CL – Indeed, the harm that’s coming for many Americans will be widespread so preparing and protecting needs to come first but the blowback against Trump and Repubs will be something to see.

AdLiban hour ago

CL – Does Deuteronomy mention how much lawyers can charge per hour?

AdLiban hour ago

TW……it is all a bit of a jumble right now….sorting out the real motives of those who have entered the conversation is very challenging.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad I say by popcorn and penunt stocks and futures.

twilson117

an hour ago

I believe lawyers were to be paid in goats. Hard to translate into currency.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – damn – I was hoping that would never happen. I’m sorry.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – are these Trump supporters landowners who are contiguous with the originating group’s properties?

choicelady

an hour ago

CL…me too, but I think we are better off now than we were two weeks a go.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

OK!!! Every step is a step.

choicelady

an hour ago

BTW all, CL and I did a little research and not only is it legal and common for Americans to have bank accounts in Canada BUT they can be US Dollar accounts so no loss of money in conversion AND they are government insured up to $100k Canadian value. So if Trump and Cronies kill the FDIC, we can quickly move money to Canada with no risk or issues.

AdLiban hour ago

Ad and I are SERIOUSLY looking into that.

choicelady

an hour ago

My hubs is ecstatic at the prospect of security for our funds.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL….how people are aligned to the various political poles is among the points that require discussion so that we do not invite snakes into the garden.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

TW – SOmetimes the best thing to do is nothing and wait for the moment to come. I think that’s the wise path right now. Keep our sanity by not following every insane statement and act that Trump/Musk/Repubs make, let them dig themselves a deep hole next year THEN we grab our shovels and bury them.

AdLiban hour ago

Murph – that is indeed essential.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – Glad Hubs is relieved about our research, so am I and my wife too, she was worried we could lose everything in a Musk-pushed economic crash after the FDIC would be killed.

AdLiban hour ago

Ad just check, 1 Candian dollar to US dollar is .74 cents so there is a little loss there, but better to be safe than not at all.

twilson117

an hour ago

In a Land Trust while there is room for people to sell if drawn properly, you need to weed out the “Just do I got mine” asshats. They are people who would use AND abuse a trust which requires solidarity and cooperation. Trust matters in a trust. You are doing your ‘due diligence’ here. Good.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – So do lawyers who have to go to court get goats and a half?

AdLiban hour ago

TW – we would be able, if we had it, to put 74,000 in each of various accounts and be covered.

choicelady

an hour ago

TW – No, you don’t have to convert to Canadian dollars, you can open US Dollar accounts in Canada so there is zero loss, no conversion to Canadian dollars needed.

AdLiban hour ago

AD you can open US accounts so the US dollar stays the same? Ok that’s good.

twilson117

an hour ago

Ad – no. By Jewish and later Islamic law, flat rates, no interest, is charged. X hours = so many goats. No fiddling with it.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL…I have been sharing your commentary with those involved. Of. note, four co-op members who were at the center of the dissatisfaction related to the Co-Op are on board now.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad – but if it’s insured to C$ 100K, it won’t cover $100K US. We would put IN less but as US dollars. I think that’s what I read. We can check.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – Exactly, like banking here, you are insured for the maximum guarantee per bank so even if you had hundreds of thousands of US dollars (you could win the lottery, never know!), you’d simply split it up among different banks and each would insure up to $100k Canadian equivalent.

AdLiban hour ago

Murph – that’s very fine.

choicelady

an hour ago

Ad – Exactly – we could have a little here, a little there, and a great excuse for a road trip to “visit our savings”.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – Right, if 100k Candain is equal to $74k US, you would simply put no more than $74k in each bank to be fully insured.

AdLiban hour ago

Ad – Exactly.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – Yes! A road trip to visit our money would be fun. So much beauty in Canada!

AdLiban hour ago

I LOVE Canada! Live in Nova Scotia one summer teaching, and it was boffo.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – can you tell me what the ‘sticking points’ are and if they’re coming from the MAGA crowd?

choicelady

an hour ago

LIVED in Nova Scotia…

choicelady

an hour ago

I met my wife in Canada, Montreal.

twilson117

an hour ago

TW – LOVE Montreal!

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – Years ago I went camping with a friend up in Alberta near the Rockies and Lake Louise, it was gorgeous there.

AdLiban hour ago

I wouldn’t mind going back, but we need to get passports now. Something of the to do list for 2025.

twilson117

an hour ago

TW – Haven’t been to Montreal yet but have been to Toronto, very nice city indeed!

AdLiban hour ago

CL I think the conversation now is about the need to protect property in such a way that efforts to cannibalize holdings will be thwarted…..the destruction of the co-op is being framed as a warning that must be taken up by all of smaller land owners

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

I know Toronto fairly well having lived in Buffalo. Montreal is just amazing. TW – we have our passport application renewals ready when we get our photos done. You just never know when you’ll need one.

choicelady

an hour ago

Murph – THAT is a powerful and eminently sensible discussion.

choicelady

an hour ago

TW – It’s about $100 for a new passport. I do think it’s a good investment, not knowing what lies ahead for this country, a valid passport is good insurance.

AdLiban hour ago

Murph – I would ask the attorney to scour MO state codes on land holdings to find any laws that aid or threaten your progress. It’s a bitch of a job -I do it in CA – but it’s important.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL I have been procrastinanting on that for some time but have to get it done now, tough part is getting the wife to go along but I think I can get our daughter to help with that.

twilson117

an hour ago

CL – as it turns out, regret re. the demise of the co-op is more wide spread than I thought.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

For a passport AND a passport card (all you really need to get in and out of Canada) it’s $160. $130 for the passport renewal, $30 for the card that is the same size as your driver’s license.

choicelady

an hour ago

Good advice CL

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad I agree I just have to get of the dime and get it done.

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – that is good. What is done in haste cannot be repented in leisure! Now they see. Hope they learned.

choicelady

an hour ago

TW – you can fill out the applications online. If you never had a passport, it’s more expensive. The info is more rigorous. But it’s pretty clear. DO NOT GO TO KINKO’s – you pay them a fee on top of the passport fee.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL…again the lessons learned from the Co-Op’s demise and the ripple effects that continue to be felt.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

CL – Interesting, is the passport card like a Driver’s License? I have a passport but also got Global Entry/TSA to get through security lines quickly.

AdLiban hour ago

So are the Trump supporters involved in “destruction remorse” now? I share your concern that they may not be entirely honorable.

choicelady

an hour ago

Ad – I did not get Global Entry because overseas travel is fairly rare. So for us, having the passport for that plus the card for US travel and for Canada/Mexico was enough.

choicelady

an hour ago

I saw today that Trump’s positive rating is down to 41 percent…so much for the honeymoon.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Murph – he blew the honeymoon before taking office. That’s kind of amazing.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL I have a passport, but it might as well be that I never had one since I never renewed and it was back in 1974, but its all about just getting it done regardless of the current cost because I believe it will be vitally necessary

twilson117

an hour ago

Murph – It could make sense that if a majority of non-MAGAs agree, maybe best to not have them included in the trust if it meant changing the terms to ones the majority wasn’t comfortable with. And in the end, they might go along with it all anyway.

AdLiban hour ago

TW – yes, the automatic default on previous passports is 15 years. You kinda bypassed that. It helps, but it doesn’t offset the higher fees.

choicelady

an hour ago

Ad…a good cautionary principle.

MurphTheSurf3

an hour ago

Ad – that’s good advice.

choicelady

an hour ago

CL – So you know, it’s a twofer, if you get Global Entry, you also get the TSA-Pre to use the “fast” line to get through security and you don’t have to take off your shoes or take your computer/iPad out of your carry on.

AdLiban hour ago

Yes – I did it ass backwards. I have TSA Pre and passports but NOT Global Entry. You live. You learn.

choicelady

44 minutes ago

Murph – It’s also a strong negotiating tactic. Align with those who aren’t MAGAs, come to a sensible agreement then if MAGAs argue they don’t like it, you have the leverage to say, “I’m sorry you feel that way. We are going to move forward with it this way though since the majority agrees. We do hope you change your mind and join us.”

AdLib43 minutes ago

Cl, the fee is not the issue is for me to just get it done and to convince my wife to do it as well, I wouldn’t mind going back to visit Montreal just for a weekend.

twilson117

43 minutes ago

When we were in Germany, 2018, I had to remove my glasses to go through German security to conform w US TSA Pre. My life as a cat burglar on the Riviera was clearly done.

choicelady

43 minutes ago

Ad…it does seem clear that there is opposition to MAGA’s role in. leadership and decision making.

MurphTheSurf3

42 minutes ago

TW – I would think your wife wouldn’t mind having a valid passport, is that right? It’s the travel that would take the convincing. Best to be prepared, you may not travel and use it but you could.

AdLib41 minutes ago

TW – that’s why I suggest doing it online at least for the printout form. It’s really easy. We are going over to the post office to renew rather than mailing. It can take 10 weeks by mail, and less if you hand in everything there.

choicelady

41 minutes ago

Murph – EXCELLENT!

choicelady

41 minutes ago

CL – So it was you who stole my jewels in Cannes!

AdLib40 minutes ago

Ad it’s a mixed bag.

twilson117

40 minutes ago

Ad – no. I got thwarted by German efficiency. Had to just go about my business, give up my life of crime.

choicelady

40 minutes ago

Murph – That’s why I’m suggesting this as a strategy. The end result may have everyone including MAGAs joining in but consider negotiations like this like a chess match, you need to pursue a position of strength with the majority of reasonable people then from that position of strength, being willing to move forward without the MAGAs, you can be firm yet welcoming towards them.

AdLib38 minutes ago

TW – So she may have mixed feelings about getting a valid passport?

AdLib37 minutes ago

CL – Choicelady – Ex-Cat Burglar.

AdLib37 minutes ago

Ad…that does seem to be the direction the group is taking.

MurphTheSurf3

37 minutes ago

Ad belive it or not yes, she doesn’t see the need since we don’t travel. But, it is also a workable solution, all I have to do is get our daughter to work on her.

twilson117

36 minutes ago

Murph – that is hugely good news. About bloody time MAGA regain the idea they don’t run the world, that community requires equality from them, too.

choicelady

35 minutes ago

TW – having a pushy and competent daughter is golden!

choicelady

35 minutes ago

Ad now she has a sister in CA and if CA was to require passports then she would probably jumpt on it like a frog on a junebug, so get working on that.

twilson117

34 minutes ago

CL…that is how I read it right now.

MurphTheSurf3

34 minutes ago

Murph – I have put a few deals together so just suggesting based on my idiosyncratic experiences but to make something happen, sometimes you need to strategize in a way that gives you the momentum to make something happen or else the initial struggle for power with some potential partners can become an unending back and forth that constantly delays anything coming to fruition.

AdLib34 minutes ago

TW – it jolly well MAY come to that! CA and passports. One never knows.

choicelady

34 minutes ago

TW – What about your granddaughter saying it’s her dream to get married in Paris?

AdLib33 minutes ago

I think the bloom is off the rose for MAGA. They may not realize it, but their bombast and destructive acts have cost them legitimacy.

choicelady

33 minutes ago

CL only do after Trump sends you a boat load or rakes to tend to your forest ground work.

twilson117

33 minutes ago

TW – Good point! CA may require passports to enter after Trump gets in, best that your wife is prepared!

AdLib32 minutes ago

Tw – I expect NOTHING from Trump. We will, like Murph’s land trust plan, forge ahead with or without him and Eldon.

choicelady

32 minutes ago

Ad….good advice. We cannot let those whose interests are opposite ours take the wheel.

MurphTheSurf3

32 minutes ago

BRB – have to feed cats. They’re getting ugly…

choicelady

32 minutes ago

CL – Agreed but I think it will be a huge whiplash for MAGAs when their hubris is blown up by a majority of Americans coming after them. They can talk the talk but when they try to walk the walk, they’ll stumble and fall.

AdLib30 minutes ago

Murph – My history with making something happen is that too much talk is the enemy of action. MAGAs are generally beligerent, if they make this a battle of egos the arguing will never end and nothing will get done, definitely not in time for the disasters that could be coming down the line. If you can solidify terms with the majority, my suggestion is to move forward with or without them and use the explanation that the majority has made the decision.

AdLib28 minutes ago

CL – Ugly for cats at least.

AdLib28 minutes ago

Ad the thing about Trump what his MAGA minions do not seem to understand is, as you’ve been saying, his policies will impact them directly because many them don’t have the resources that he desires other than their limited loyalty which will change once they reilzed they are getting screwed by him and the uber wealthy. So there are nothing but cannon fodder the same way Napolean troops were when they marched into the cannon fire.

twilson117

27 minutes ago

Leaving the door wide open for the MAGAs to come on board with the terms already agreed upon by the majority.

AdLib26 minutes ago

TW – Very well said! If the Dept. of Education is shut down, the tarrifs are raised, the tax cuts for the rich AGAIN raise taxes on the non-wealthy, undocumented laborers are chased out of working and gorcery prices skyrocket, the ACA is killed or changed to reinstate redlining people with pre-existing conditions, welfare and Medicaid sliced down…no one will be hit harder than rural MAGAs.

AdLib23 minutes ago

Ad – I think this next year will be a major upheaval as MAGA discover they’re part of America, not separate, not special. It could be a learning experience. It could get ugly. I can’t predict. But first principle for Murph and the land protection is that MAGA do not get to direct it. Participation has to be on an absolutely equal footing. No “special rights” for MAGA supremacists. That will weed out the vile.

choicelady

23 minutes ago

TW – the MAGA elitists will have to come home to reality. Your historical analogy is spot ON.

choicelady

22 minutes ago

CL – All great points! But when you say it could get ugly, what do you mean?

AdLib22 minutes ago

As much as I expect Trump to blame Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Obama, video games, Jimmy Kimmel, etc. for the economy crashing and people’s lives being harmed, I don’t see how MAGAs or non-MAGA Trump voters will do a Charlottesville march to Jimmy Kimmel’s house. They will have no one to blame but Trump and Repubs.

AdLib19 minutes ago

If they cannot tolerate getting cuts the same as Black and Brown people, they could turn violently against those groups. Remember in 1692 when the Salem witch trials started, it was very much an outgrowth of losing Dominion status and being recolonized. Salem merchants and seamen lost power and status. They, good Englishmen, could not blame the KING, so they found scapegoats: people who were doing fairly well even under the new regime. Everyone believed in witches then, and it was not out of reason to point fingers at the ones who “clearly” had survived the changes. Witches. Had to be. Well that mindset is in the anti-abortion crowd, the Christian Nationalists, and absolutely in white supremacy. Find a scapegoat.

choicelady

18 minutes ago

After all, Repubs will own all of federal government and all of the decisions. Only the most deluded MAGAs will believe that some “swamp creatures” are somehow overpowering their god-like leader and his party of minions.

AdLib17 minutes ago

MAGA and deluded are the same word.

choicelady

17 minutes ago

Cl in other words instead of accepting responsibilty for “their actions” blame it on someone else. Adam blames Eve.

twilson117

15 minutes ago

Tw – exactly. Eve was framed. But that’s the oldest story. SODDI – some other dude did it.

choicelady

14 minutes ago

CL – Good points. I could imagine a Nazi-esque anti-immigrant fervor whipped up by Trump and Musk to scapegoat them for the failures they’ve created but if Trump starts his deportation agenda on Day One as promised, that’s a much harder case to make. Still, I could see many racist MAGAs buying into it and getting violent or at least threatening. But that will only hasten the outrage, fear, and disgust of a wide majority of Americans against the Nazi-type Trump movement and governing.

AdLib13 minutes ago

In the end, all roads lead to Trump’s and the GOP’s destruction but you’re right CL, I see what you mean, it could beugly getting there.

AdLib12 minutes ago

Look – Black communities thrive due to their own hard work. White supremacists? Not so much. I KNOW they blame Black people getting ‘preferences’. So I think the ugly will occur in those MAGA quarters where they see Black people succeeding and they are failing.

choicelady

12 minutes ago

It’s why hubs and I are doubling down on hate crimes legislation. It will get worse before it gets better.

choicelady

11 minutes ago

If there is violence, economic desperation,fascism, if all the warnings about Trump come true as I imagine they’re likely to, no one is going to think they’re better off than they were before Trump and the GOP took power.

AdLib11 minutes ago

Ad – never underestimate the power of the True Believer to whitewash Trump and Musk and blame everyone, anyone, who is doing better than they are.

choicelady

10 minutes ago

Trump parlayed 3 murders into a slavering mob marching against “illegals”. Every day in America 40-70 women are killed by an intimate partner, but…immigrants. They will always find a scapegoat. It’s how they roll.

choicelady

8 minutes ago

CL – I take your warnings to heart. And I wouldn’t underestimate the MAGA hateful, we saw Charlottesville who Trump deemed “fine people”, I could see them emboldened to do even worse with him in office but a bigger and growing majority of Americans will be repulsed and turn on Trump even if these horrible and stupid MAGAs don’t.

AdLib7 minutes ago

My dear friends, I was sick as a dog yesterday, no idea why. I am better today, but I’m fading out. If Murph comes back, please tell him I’m available to him to answer, best I can, questions. Merry Christmas to you, whether you celebrate it or not. It still remains a beacon of hope and promise for us all. May we finally live UP to it! Talk to you next week. Hope your week is a good one!

choicelady

5 minutes ago

CL – Wouldn’t you agree that if Trump scapegoats vulnerable people for his destructive policies, a huge majority of Americans will turn against him and the Repubs supporting him in Congress? Who will support a rash of rampant violence by MAGAs across the country? I can tell you that law enforcement in blue and purple states won’t let that go.

AdLib5 minutes ago

Merry Christmas to you, CL and Hubby!

AdLib4 minutes ago

Just was checking something that Timothy Synder wrote in his book On Tryranny: The symbols of todayendable the reality of tommorw. He further points out; “the minor choces we make are hemesleves a kind of vote, making it more less likely that free and fair elections will be held in the future. In the politics of the everday our words and genstures or their absence count very much.” I think that fits with what we are discussing.,

twilson117

4 minutes ago

Ad – yes, I do think most will. But too many will cling to him to death.

choicelady

4 minutes ago

CL – Those that cling to Trump will go down with him.

AdLib4 minutes ago

Sorry for the typos

twilson117

4 minutes ago

Merry Christmas. TW – however it works for you, have a good one! Hugs to my fave guys!

choicelady

4 minutes ago

CL thank you I will enjoy the holiday and best to you and your family.

twilson117

3 minutes ago

TW – Great quote!

AdLib3 minutes ago

Tw – yes, excellent quote!

choicelady

3 minutes ago

G’night guys!

choicelady

3 minutes ago

Night CL!

AdLib3 minutes ago

Ad it short book but man is it pack with a lot of wisdom.

twilson117

2 minutes ago

Indeed!

AdLib2 minutes ago

I’ll call you in a 5

twilson117

2 minutes ago

Ok!

AdLib2 minutes ago