Vox Populi – 6-30-2017

Hey Ad! I will be back,quick trip to the store

Beatlex

Hey Ad, how are you tonight?

glenn

Pretty good, too. Looking forward to a visit from my sister, her son, and her granddaughter tomorrow. Then we’re going up to the GA mountains for a road trip!

glenn

Yup, looking forward to it.

glenn

Well, these mountains aren’t the Rockies, but they’re still beautiful. And cool…

glenn

So, how low do you think trump can go?

glenn

Really? You do have to let me know if you’re coming; maybe we could meet up somewhere for a lunch or coffee.

glenn

I’ve always been convinced that the collusion is real; just wasn’t sure how much trump actually knew about it, other than the financial part. I truly believe he keeps calling it fake news, because he truly believes he has done nothing wrong. He just borrowed some money from Russian banks, so what’s wrong with that? And, as many foxsocallednews pundits have pointed out recently, collusion with Russia isn’t so bad; it’s not illegal, right?

glenn

That would be great, Ad.

glenn

I just wish Mueller would hurry and get this over with,one way or the other.Trump has to go.Things can go sideways in a minute.s

Beatlex

Maybe. I’m not getting my hopes up that it will come to anything. At least in Congress. It has to come from Mueller. And, you’re right; I wish he would put some speed into it. I’m guessing he’s trying to cross all his t’s and dot all his i’s so trump can’t weasel away, but as you say, the world isn’t standing still while our whiner in chief is screwing up any and all of our relationships with our allies.

glenn

I don’t know too much about Atlanta venues, but am learning about the “countryside” outside of the city.

glenn

The republicans have proven to be worse in charge than was thought.No scruples,I don’t think they are going to get away with it this time

Beatlex

Hey Beatlex–welcome back. Boy, ain’t that the truth about republicans having absolutely no scruples! Almost every time trump sinks to a new low, I think, “Can you imagine the outrage if PBO had said and done even 1/10th of the things trump has said and done?

glenn

Ad,you are right,I just don’t know what will happen in the meantime,it will probably get real ugly

Beatlex

Ad–I’m of two minds about all this coming out closer to the 2018 elections, because by that time, what will have republicans done to our health care system? It’s scary to think of the damage they can do between now and then.

glenn

Canada turns 150 in scant hours.

Beatlex

Hello glenn! I hate Trump,the worst person EVER to be President.It is truly scary

Beatlex

Congrats to Canada. So, Beatlex, are Canadians as enamored of their prime minister as Americans seem to be? I get a lot of gushing reports about Trudeau on my FB page. Now, mind you, I think he’s an intelligent, good-looking guy. Just wondering if Canadians feel the same way.

glenn

What kinds of celebrations are going on for the 150th?

glenn

He is green glenn,but he has old pros helping him with policy

Beatlex

BRB

Beatlex

Beatlex–I’m with you. I hate trump with every fiber of my being. I still cannot believe he is the president. He is a danger to our country, and as Ad says, has trashed the presidency. I just hope we can get him out of there with minimal damage to our country.

glenn

And, so how most Canadians feel about his policies?

glenn

….how do most Canadians….

glenn

Ad–you know, the repubs have been declared in “defeat” before, yet they manage to keep pulling out wins. If they don’t pass repeal this time, I don’t think they’re ever going to give up! I just wish Dems would come out with some clear, consistent plans to fix the parts of Obamacare that need fixing, so they have something concrete to offer, instead of just saying “no”. I’m really sick of the “no” game!

glenn

Ad–that very well could be, because we know trump blurts out the last thing he’s been told. So maybe people were discussing Hillary’s emails, and that’s what was on his tiny little mind. The ironic thing is he can plead ignorance, and no one would think twice about it. IOW, everyone knows he’s ignorant.

glenn

Ad–It would be nice if Dems could take back one house of Congress, but once again, I have my doubts. Already, repubs are lying through their teeth about “cuts to Medicare”. So, you know the base will believe them, because they won’t actually lose their insurance, or have to pay higher premiums until after the 2018 elections. At least that’s my understanding. So, the repubs could keep lying, keep painting themselves as victims, and the base will eat it up. Just as the 2016 presidential election was the Dems to lose; so will the 2018 election be. And…given their performance in 2016, I am not optimistic about Dems actually taking back one house of Congress. They have to get a unified message, and as I said before, come up with a plan that makes sense to fix Obamacare, and keep on topic. Quit playing trump’s stupid insult/dominance games and put some policies out there! Not only do Dems have to put policies out, they have to educate people as to how these policies will benefit them (the people, not the party). A daunting task, I know, but one that would work if they just let trump hang himself, and go with positives.

glenn

Hey Murph, how are you?

glenn

Hello….sorry to have missed last week….I was was running a phone bank….never caught up as a result.

MurphTheSurf3

Beatle…just saw you…..howdy! And howdy to Glenn and Ad LIb.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–Yeah, I agree. I think trump will be challenged by a primary opponent. And, if he/she is a rational human being, there is a good chance that repubs could keep the presidency, especially if they keep both houses of Congress in 2018. If trump doesn’t overcome the primary challenger, and that person wins the repub nomination, then repubs have an excellent chance of keeping the presidency, IMO.

glenn

Ad–I know what the polls show, but that didn’t stop the House from passing their bill with approximately the same approval rating. I realize it’s different for Senators as they have to be elected statewide, but we’ve become so tribalized that I don’t think it will stop people from voting “R” just because…

glenn

Ad…..we were talking to constituents in my Congressional District, which means mostly GOP with a lot of zealots……25 of us….mostly navigators or close to it….doing conversations with folks about the nuts and bolts of the medical insurance coverage they now have and what the GOP plans call for…..we had the ability to send them documents and to forward their names to a “More Info Please” list for after action conversation. We wanted to get a feel for what people knew, what they wanted to know and where they were totally off.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph–what an excellent plan! What were your findings/results as to what people know and don’t know?

glenn

Happy facelifts every body!

pinkpantheroz

Glenn…a simple question but a really complex answer. We have tons of data and it is still being analyzed. When I have a good synopsis I will bass it on.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, we have so much data and its being crunched by experts in this…when I get the results I will pass them on.

MurphTheSurf3

I think the groups is going to be used again outside our district…we may be a model for wider use.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–not so sure that the repub base won’t support an opponent to trump. I think it would give them an excellent excuse to dump trump and still vote for someone with an “R” attached to his/her name. Granted, trump’s base is extreme, but I don’t think he has quite as much rabid support as he did five months ago. Don’t forget, the moderates and independents who voted for trump did so because they didn’t want to vote for Hillary, or any Dem. So, I think, once again, if they are given a choice to get rid of trump and still vote “r”, they’ll do it.

glenn

My job on the bank was to keep it working…..I did not make calls…next time I will.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad..another image from “Brazil”

MurphTheSurf3

Reading back here. Murph, YOu’re doing a grand job, Keep it up.

pinkpantheroz

Murph–That is important data and the analysis should be very interesting.

glenn

PPO….thank you so much….it took a lot to put it together…a fine team…we will likely be doing it again.

MurphTheSurf3

Hey PPO–how are you?

glenn

How many of us think that the GOP is going to end up working with Dems to fix ACA and then rename it. Obama gave the idea his blessing months ago.

MurphTheSurf3

OMG–trump has had a face lift and he still looks like that? Time to sue the surgeon!

glenn

hi glenn doing OK as well as can be expected.

pinkpantheroz

Murph–oh yeah, I think they’re going to have to go there. I predicted this last year, remember. And, how wonderful is our former president to work for the good of the country, rather than complain that his signature legislation is being changed? Still one classy guy, IMO.

glenn

Ad….you and I share a fascination with that film…which feels creepily current does it not.

MurphTheSurf3

CAn the US survive as it is for 3 more years of the same crap?

pinkpantheroz

I SO MISS

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–isn’t it great that we live in such interesting times? I agree with you about one thing; trump’s extreme base will be wild if trump doesn’t get re-nominated. That would be a joy to see.

glenn

Class personified

pinkpantheroz

Glenn…I do recall your prophetic stance.

MurphTheSurf3

PPO–My uncle used to say, “I’m in pretty good shape for the shape I’m in.” LOL!

glenn

Ad…I begin to see your scenario as more and more likely as Trump because less and less tolerable.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad….that it is.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, look out for ‘The Manchurian CAndidate!

pinkpantheroz

We have been seeing more hate crimes in Canada in the last 6 months.Trump is a world wide danger

Beatlex

As you all may recall my field of academic study was/is political history with a focus on constitutional structures. I regard the current admin as another example of how badly the American System is designed and how poorly it functions. The awfulness of this current admin is simply amplifying what is always there.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph and Ad–My granddaughter, who will be a freshman in high school in August, has had to read Fahrenheit 450 over the summer. I was asking her about it today, and she was fascinated by the premise in the book that books were dangerous. She doesn’t take to science fiction much; she’s more a math gal, but she did get it that if we take books away, then we take away critical thinking.

glenn

pinkpantheroz

Ad–Oh, how I would love to see the GOP go up in flames! It’s about damn time!

glenn

Glenn…your grand daughter is edgy….she reads and she understands what she is reading. A rare gem is she.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph,you have hit the nail on the head! It has proved to be a faulty idea that is easily gamed by a determined foe

Beatlex

Murph–certainly trump has brought out all of the imperfections in our system, but hasn’t it worked pretty well up until then?

glenn

Ad…the entire structure favors the incumbent…so, barring an impeachment and trial, and/or a flood of indictments…..very hard to see that happening.

MurphTheSurf3

brb

pinkpantheroz

Beatlex–It’s scary that trump is exporting his hate-filled agenda. I see stories of hate crimes happening in Canada, and it makes me so sad!

glenn

Ad,can we wait that long? It is unravelling already

Beatlex

Glenn….the system has collapsed several times…the Civil War and the Great Depression are two such periods. but we have come close many other times.

MurphTheSurf3

glenn,it has always been here,but leaders like Trump embolden them

Beatlex

Murph–I think it’s enough that trump might face a primary challenger. Can the party allow that to happen, or will trump automatically be the nominee, assuming he is still in office? And, here’s another scenario. If trump is impeached and out of office, would pence face a primary challenger?

glenn

Murph–yes, the system has collapsed several times, but we have always managed to “right the ship”. Do you think that is NOT possible now?

glenn

It is my belief that the American constitution is out of date.Sure,at the time there was a real fear of invasion,thus the right to bear arms.Etc. Is there a hope of a constitutional conference/ Is there a mechanism for that?

Beatlex

Ad…the Founders launched a system that was little more than a skeleton in a framework that made filling out that skeleton very difficult to do and even more difficult to change once done.They also diverged from the far more flexible Parliamentary System where there were not fixed terms of office and where the executive was chosen from and operated within the legislative. The federal/state split was also inherently unstable. The BIG FIX was supposed to be regular Constitutional Conventions…how have they gone?

MurphTheSurf3

Ad–It’s scary to me that trump will become even more vicious and paranoid if he faces a primary challenger, but he definitely will become more so.

glenn

Murph–so are you answering Beatlex’s question in the positive….that we do need another Constitutional Convention?

glenn

Ad–so even if Mueller comes up with evidence sufficient to impeach trump, you don’t think repubs will do so?

glenn

Did you see where a State told Trump to go jump in the Gulf while refusing to release voter data? A RED state at that!

pinkpantheroz

Ad,but would it stand? Anything they try to change to favor them won’t fly,I would hope

Beatlex

Glenn…we have been lucky so far….but the Civil War could well have shattered the nation, as could the Great Depression.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph–I think one of the great points you make in your answer is that in the parliamentary system, the head of government is chosen from within the legislature. That has a good and bad side. The good side is that the chief executive has experience; the bad side is that the chief executive has experience. The president we now have certainly is a great example of why we need to elect someone with legislative experience.

glenn

But on the other hand, someone with a lot of legislative experience, is also vulnerable to being accused of “playing politics” and many of the things that proved too great for Hillary to overcome.

glenn

The idea of a convention was never a good one……incremental change works best.

MurphTheSurf3

Until Trump was elected,the worst President of modern times was GWB.Trump makes George look like Ike! “sad”

Beatlex

Glenn…and existing within the legislative, the executive can not duck and cover, hide and shift as our seperated sysem does.

MurphTheSurf3

Beatle…Trump is record setting in all the worst ways.

MurphTheSurf3

Gentlemen, I hate to leave when the conversation is getting good, but it’s getting late here, and I need to rise early in the morning. Take care my friends, and have a safe and happy 4th! And to our Canadian friend, Happy 150th Birthday! You don’t look a day over 100!

glenn

The subject of actually changing the constitution is “Yuge”! But really it would take a big setback to unite Americans in the debate

Beatlex

Murph–good point about the dodging and weaving!

glenn

Good night, gents!

glenn

By glenn! Happy 4th!

Beatlex

Nite Glenn…I will be leaving soon as well…..I have a lot of farm work to catch up on.

MurphTheSurf3

I worry thatthe wrong kind of people are now seeking election. These neophytes haven’t a basic clue about how the gears of government mesh. And then they put a simpleton in a boss! Spare me!

pinkpantheroz

Yeah Ad,how long does an audit take?

Beatlex

Ad….the immunity the president has from the most ordinary provisions of the law is fucking insane…truly

MurphTheSurf3

I was at my favorite, and only, bar earlier tonight and heard neighbors laughing at the Joe/Mika story….another neighbor asked them if they would want their wives and daughters treated that way. The response….our folks aren’t liberal sluts. I, and a few others got up and left.

MurphTheSurf3

Murph – It’s getting to be a trump Monarchy – all the courtiers protecting him from the peasants. Proclamations from behind a band of protection. Immunity to anything real! THis needs to be stopped.

pinkpantheroz

Ad…yep….And as our current dilemma shows….no matter how awful, it is so hard to remove the one in office that it makes a mockery of justice.

MurphTheSurf3

PPO….your image is a horrifying and compelling one.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad….stupid as a patriotic virtue.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad, isn’t it utterly pathetic and worrying that the only brake to Trumps hegemony is the Media, and not the Congress? Terrifying!

pinkpantheroz

Ad….I think the WH Press Corps is moving toward only broadcasting televised briefings. If they are audio only they will do the excerpts they choose. If they are no recordings…they will sed a representative pool.

MurphTheSurf3

The House bill then goes to the Senate and is then signed by who?

MurphTheSurf3

I have any embryo of an idea as to why America ended up here.The R’s rabid opposition to the first Black President gave permission to those harboring rabid ideas to gain a foot hold.Ergo Trump Any thoughts?

Beatlex

Beat, you have it in one. Add Congress’ decision to block each and every Obama initiative, ad hominem attacks on He and his family opened every closeted redneck racist in the country

pinkpantheroz

Beatle….your read on Obama’s place in all of this strikes me as very much to the point.

MurphTheSurf3

Thanks Oz,just trying to make sense of this stuff

Beatlex

Ad…Trump must sign it. He can veto it or pocket it. Then the Senate must over-ride…a direct rebuke. Will they?

MurphTheSurf3

Ad….I think many in the press believe they are being used to pass on fake news….yep, I said it….and they are less and less willing to do so.

MurphTheSurf3

Ad…good synopsis.

MurphTheSurf3

Trump WILL fall out of favor with the congress,sooner rather than later IMO.There iIS there there with Russia,and financial crimes.They will dump him in a nano second when he becomes a liability

Beatlex

Beatle….consider how long Nixon was able to hold off the inevitable…

MurphTheSurf3

Ryan and McConell are ghouls of the first order.They will do anything to satisfy their overlords.The rich

Beatlex

Ad…so the Senate will be forced to publicly rebuke Trump. Will they do it?

MurphTheSurf3

Murph,different time,24 hour cycle now

Beatlex

Ad…agreed that the press have been played.

MurphTheSurf3

Well on these hopeful notes I retire to my bed of pain! See you all next week.

MurphTheSurf3

Yes Ad.There are already sories that people see him as weak

Beatlex

Ad- if that happens then the tide will be turning….

MurphTheSurf3

Sorry Lads and lassies, got to go – mid winter supercharged stew to do! Sayonara

pinkpantheroz

Ad

Beatlex

By oz

Beatlex

Happy 4 Ad!

Beatlex