AdLib is online.

  • AdLib : Thanks! Good night!

  • SallyT : I will and you, too! Good night!

  • AdLib : Thanks for that! Will see you here over the weekend, sleep well!

  • SallyT : Okay, I have given you enough to watch and research online. So, now i will let you go and enjoy your weekend.

  • AdLib : Adding it to my list, I have heard of it.

  • SallyT : It’s a classic now. It won lots of awards.

  • SallyT : If you look up Grey Gardens on the Internet there is lots of stuff on the original.

  • SallyT : Yes! That was really a good movie.

  • AdLib : Oh. Did you see Jessica Lange in The Postman Always Rings Twice? Great performance!

  • SallyT : These two documentary film guys went and stayed with them and filmed them as they were living. But, it was after Jackie had repaired the house. They had all these cats and raccoons living in and around the house! Really strange and sad.

  • SallyT : It was a documentary.

  • SallyT : You are probably too young to remember the story when it first hit the press but I do remember watching the show on PBS when it was first aired.

  • AdLib : Didn’t know all of that background on Jackie.

  • SallyT : Jessica said that she watched the original right before she went to do the scene so she would get her just right and she did!

  • SallyT : If you watch the original and then theirs, you will see how exact they are.

  • SallyT : She did pay to have the house fixed for them. Anyway, Drew and especially jessica really capture these ladies.

  • SallyT : Anyway, they were living in shambles and the press picked up on it. jackie was married to Onassa then.

  • SallyT : Bouvier’s.

  • SallyT : Or did Drew Barrymore win the Emmy? I don’t remember but Drew had produced the movie. If you can find that, watch it. It is great. And, I saw the original one back in the 70’s with the real Edie and Little Edie. They were aunt and cousin to Jackie Kennedy.

  • AdLib : No, didn’t see that.

  • SallyT : She won a Golden Globe and I think an Emmy for that.

  • SallyT : Did you by any chance see Grey Gardens?

  • SallyT : Oh, yes!

  • AdLib : She was great in Cape Fear.

  • SallyT : I could relate to her in that. My family was going through some of those problems at the time.

  • AdLib : Sally – Sounds very interesting!

  • SallyT : I loved her in Country!

  • SallyT : Oh, I’m sorry, AdLib, I didn’t mean to keep you.

  • AdLib : Always like her as an actress, her first role I believe though was a silly one, in a King Kong remake but it made her a star.

  • SallyT : It is smart scary. You do have to think and it does have twists.

  • SallyT : One she was southern and two is has a Boston one.

  • SallyT : Jessica is good at ascents and each season she has a differnt one.

  • AdLib : I like scary but smart-scary.

  • SallyT : The first season was ghost and a haunted house. The second was in an asylum back in the 50’s and 60’s. I liked the second best.

  • AdLib : I’ve been pleasantly surprised by some shows I’ve caught up with on Netflix, some have been disappointing but it’s great having no commercials and all or many seasons to watch when you can.

  • SallyT : I don’t know how they got away with somethings on regular cable. They really push it close to the limit.

  • SallyT : I think you will like it if you like scary things.

  • SallyT : It is very different but you do get hooked to it.

  • SallyT : American Horror Story is on FOX I think. I never watched it there but downloaded season one and two. Each season is a diffenrent story line. They haven’t finshed 3 but Jessica is signed for that one, too.

  • AdLib : I’ll check it out!

  • AdLib : Nope, I’m a more recent Netflix subscriber, have caught up on a number of series and films I’ve missed along the way.

  • SallyT : Jessica Lange is wonderful in it! Really off her regular characters.

  • AdLib : It’s their most popular show in their history, FWIW.

  • SallyT : Have you watched American Horror Story?

  • SallyT : Okay, I will let you go now. Maybe I will watch a couple tonight and let you know.

  • AdLib : Yes, it’s a Netflix series.

  • SallyT : Oh, I just downloaded it and haven’t watched any. Just was wondering.

  • AdLib : Not yet, been planning too. It’s gotten very good reviews.

  • SallyT : I think you can only get it on Netflix

  • SallyT : Have you watched House of Cards?

  • AdLib : Yep?

  • SallyT : Wait AdLib!

  • AdLib : Sally, right with you! Have a great weekend and see you in the Sunday Funnies!

  • SallyT : AdLib, lets lock it up and head on out?

  • AdLib : Night CL! Hope you get to rest on the 7th Day!

  • SallyT : Good weekend to you too, CL. Relax sometime!

  • choicelady : Sally and AdLib – I have to back to the office tomorrow to finish the infernal grant, so I’m bidding you adieu. See you Sunday at least, Sally! Good weekend to you both!

  • SallyT : There are many negatives on the sequester and the President. Don’t shoot me but I do think it is good to see how their sick minds are working. We know they are full of it!

  • choicelady : Sally – LOL!!! Whole different issue, dear heart. We ALL suffer from that!

  • choicelady : Amen, Murph. Amen!

  • SallyT : CL, I don’t know about that, I can’t do anything about my own shape!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- saw your last note re. Episcopalians… any church with a woman scientist as its “archbishop”is worth my followership.

  • choicelady : Sally – now you’re shaping ideas and cartoons. That’s POWER, girlfriend!

  • AdLib : I remember that, Sally. It just means that you could come up with the same satirical ideas as the pros, that’s quite a compliment!

  • SallyT : You’ll see the other on the post because I noted it. But, I had put one cartoon on already and wrote a comment below it and 2 days later, there is a cartoon!

  • choicelady : Sally! That’s the perfect solution! Get Scalia to the Vatican, wall him off, and we’re free! Bloody brilliant idea!

  • SallyT : Pope’s lead and retire and here comes the cartoon a couple of days later!

  • SallyT : I don’t know, AdLib, but I had said to you that Scalia should take the Pope

  • choicelady : Murph – I totally agree with that. I don’t go to any church, odd given my job, but have deep feeling for the Episcopalians and love them. And they have the best Christmas music!

  • SallyT : Good night CL! See you later around here.

  • AdLib : Sally – Great minds do think alike!

  • SallyT : It is kinda funny but on a couple of the cartoons I had made a comment here to you AdLib and another on a cartoon and 2 days later, some cartoonist had a cartoon saying just that! China is hacking me!!!

  • choicelady : G;’night all – and Sally I WILL look for the Pope-ish stuff! Thank you for all you give us every Sunday! Thanks to you, AL for PPOV, and thanks Murph for ALWAYS saying and doing things that illuminate so many issues. GREAT time tonight. Good night and sweet dreams.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Take care Ad Lib.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL….I must say that I am a Episcopalian in part because the church has really grappled with this issue and come out as a body far more enlightened and self aware.

  • AdLib : Night CL, have a restful weekend!

  • AdLib : Murph, same here, a rousing and fascinating chat tonight! Have a great weekend!

  • choicelady : Murph – OMG. That’s horrible! I’m so sorry. I’m Episcopalina now and then. Revolving door Episcopalian depending on who pisses me off with bigotry. I’d have walked with you. Thank you for being one of the good guys.

  • SallyT : CL, you will like a couple of the Pope ones. They pick up on your thoughts.

  • AdLib : CL – It’s kind of the Lord of the Flies thing. A new generation comes from an oppressed generation and when they gain power, they are as brutal and insensitive as those who abused their descendents. They have no sense of scope, just the feeling of having power over others and wanting to use it and acquire more.

  • choicelady : OMG – it IS late. Sorry I was late, but glad if it sparked more stuff. GREAT to see everyone. Good night all! Be well. Sally – I’m waiting with bated breath for the funnies!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- an episcopal church.

  • SallyT : Good night Murph. See you later.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well…one and all it is VERY late…this was a wonderful session…long but well worth it. Thanks to the late arrivals we got a great second wind. Good night.

  • choicelady : Murph – if you don’t mind my asking, what denomination did this reprehensible thing?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…clearly so…at one of the vestry meetings a statement was made: “So, you want him gone because he is teaching the truth….” Yep.

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s too bad but we have seen many churches put the image they’re selling above the spirituality and message their religion represents (Catholicism is of course in such a nose dive for this reason).

  • choicelady : AdLib – What scares me is that Alito, Scalia, and Thomas – all part of groups deeply victimized by MY forebears – have lost the inkling that it was the Hopey Changey thing that allowed their success, and it wasn’t individuated. It was collective. In my lifetime, around Chicago, there was an active Italian American Anti-Defamation Society, and it was not a joke. My very WASP, partly Mayflower family, did NOT want immigrants such as Italians here thinking they’d ruin the culture. They certainly changed it. Living in Rhode Island it’s a very bizarre world of New England aristocrats and Catholic immigrants. They don’t mix well, but they do co=exist. Scalia can’t or won’t remember that MY family did now want his here and did what they could to exclude the ‘swarthy’ types. So now he wants to do the same.

  • SallyT : Murph, that was a shame but shows how ignorant or just refusing they are. They know where Jesus was born and who his mother was (Dad is debatable). Now look at the people that live there…….what color is their skin?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib, the melting pot is boiling over and the soup is dusky brown.

  • AdLib : Sally – It is terrifying to them. They howl about “entitlements” and wanting to cut them (because non-white people get them…talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face) but they are the ones fighting for the biggest entitlement they always thought they had by being white.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…many years ago I belonged to a Church where the pastor gave a sermon in which he said that the face of Christ was far closer to that of any Egyptian peasant than any European. That was the beginning of the vestry’s decision that he did not fit well in our church. When he was forced out a number of us left with him.

  • SallyT : CL, he also studied at the University of Fribourg, Switzerland. Apparently, he didn’t learn much there……….. .

  • choicelady : Sally – HERESY! Everyone KNOWS Jesus was blonde and blue eyed. We have pictures to prove it! Even at the UCC church near me, that’s how he’s depicted. Tall, Aryan. Amazing delusions.

  • choicelady : Sally – NOW I understand Scalia more. I had no idea that U of C spawned HIM as well as so many other Austrian school neo cons. I grew up loving U of Chicago – was in my back yard – all without a glimmer about what it promoted. It’s a beautiful campus. HORRIBLE politics.

  • AdLib : Murph – Yes, these people who have based so much of their security in life on their superior standing, based on being white and Christian and everything else aside, are watching black people take over the WH, Latinos get into the SCOTUS, gays getting the right to be in the military and marry…the hateful and desperate reaction to all of this isn’t so surprising. Of course they want to “take our country back” but time travel isn’t possible.

  • SallyT : It has always struck me funny that they feel being white elevates you automatically. Jesus wasn’t white.

  • choicelady : Murph – I never thought I’d see Spencer’s vile notions rise again, but yup, they’re ba-a-a-a-ck. It is totally consistent with Dominionist ideology positing that you’re rich because God loves you best. It matters not whether it’s Spencer or Dominionism – there is an Elect fighting for control over us all.

  • SallyT : AdLib, I think that is more to the point than anything. They are scared that they won’t be superior anymore.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…That Hope-Change Thing is seen by those reacting as you describe as Change that gives Hope to those who are not Us…and thus the fear, the anger, the anxiety.

  • AdLib : In the end, it is the thirst for power that is most destructive.

  • AdLib : Murph – I wonder though that, at least in regards to society, this burst of racism and religious domination is the product of the stress over the impending destruction of the white race as the majority and “superior”?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…those who have appropriated the Tea Party label have no idea what an injustice they do to that event and those who were at the heart of it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice I read your excellent comment re. the link to Manifest Destiny and Social Darwinism, both present in pre and post Civil War America. They have returned have they not. Excellent.

  • SallyT : So, he thinks he is a Federalist!

  • SallyT : Here is an interesting fact I just found:In the early 1970s, he served in the Nixon and Ford administrations, first at minor administrative agencies, and then as an assistant attorney general. He spent most of the Carter years teaching at the University of Chicago, where he became one of the first faculty advisers of the fledgling Federalist Society.

  • AdLib : CL – It’s that syndrome of climbing out of adversity then greedily pulling up the ladder after you.

  • choicelady : Sally – is he one of those people who, having risen above his origins, thinks if others do as well, it diminishes his success? That the way to prove his superiority is to “the one” who succeeded? Everyone else’s success, especially via legal support for their rights, would appear to diminish his own?

  • AdLib : Murph – And I think if those in the Boston Tea Party were here today to see witness the current Tea Party, they’d never stop throwing up (h/t Woody Allen).

  • SallyT : Scalia has always opposes affirmative action and other policies that treat minorities as groups. This case is made to order for his preaching of his positions and what he thinks should be.

  • choicelady : Murph – that thought has crossed my mind, too. I keep trying to see Scalia in the 18th century and can’t. I DO see him as a manifestation of the worst post Civil War mentality. Social Darwinist coupled with Manifest Destiny adherent. And all of this from a man whose forebears were abused when they came here. The complexity of his means of rising above those abuses only to heap abuses on others is beyond my ken.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice..yes, at the root of what Scalia is advocating is rule by the elites as the ones who know what is best for everyone…power as a means of doing what’s right….from their point of view…no checks, no balances. Judicial activism in service to the power borkers.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I actually think there would be very few of the Founder/Framer generation that would appreciate much of what Scalia has to say….

  • choicelady : Murph – yes, that shocked me. He’s just making things up to fit his prejudices. It’s NOT about race per se but about power, power, who has the power. And it’s not even grounded in the law but in the politics of the law as he promotes it. Talk about ACTIVISTS!

  • AdLib : Murph – It may be a tie, his racism and his warped view that the SCOTUS has the right to usurp the power of the Legislative Branch…because a matter has become so acceptable to them? Wow, if Jefferson was here today, he’d punch Scalia in the mouth.

  • choicelady : Sally – you are right. I missed your point! Sorry!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib, CL, Sally, Bourne….readin g through your many fine observations what is clearer to me is that Scalia’s most outrageous statement is not related to racial entitlements but to the very nature of the separation of powers and the system of checks and balances….no wonder the Constitutionalis ts I read today were so outraged.

  • AdLib : CL – You can add Alan Greenspan and most Wall Street CEOs to that list of probably brilliant but dangerously narrow minded.

  • SallyT : CL, I think you are missing my point. The man thinks he is an expert. Whether you think he is not brilliant doesn’t matter, he thinks he is. You don’t have to school me on conservatives, CL.

  • AdLib : Bourne, wishing you a pleasant nocturnal respite!

  • choicelady : ‘Night Bourne! Lunch! Soon! Together!

  • AdLib : CL – I’m with you. And it’s quite a reach to claim it’s unconstitutional to prevent states from violating the constitutional rights of Americans. In a 2 party system, when you have a unanimous vote, the SCOTUS should give it huge import and respect…instea d, like Rove, Scalia is declaring a strength, a weakness. It’s crazy.

  • choicelady : Sally – Many arch consrvatives, even Bork, are brilliant, well read, know their history et al.,but they are ignorant of process, of the nuances. They become almost cultish in their selective readings of absolutely everything. Think of Milton Friedman on economics. His work destroyed several nations – but he was brilliantly well read, insightful within his cage of ideas, and a total idiot whne it came to application or the real world.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night Bourne..thanks for jumping in.

  • SallyT : Good night Bourne. You have a great weekend!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : bourne….PLANET POV: A Polysyllabic Community

  • BourneID : Hey everyone, thanks for an interesting evening. It’s nice talking to such to people who use polysyllabics. Have a good weekend All.

  • SallyT : CL, I think he knows history. I just read about him and he is not dummy. He feels he is an expert and that makes him hard to get your point across.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- the meetings were planning meetings by the Mo. GOP in light of the sequestration which is really going to hit hard here- military, education and farming…..

  • choicelady : AdLib – I would interpret SCOTUS oversight exactly the opposite. If they could not agree, SCOTUS might need to step in to clarify. Of course if they unanimously agreed to something UNconstitutional , they’d have to step in, but the unanimity per se is not a reason for a SCOTUS role. Not in any way at all. It’s utterly situational.

  • AdLib : Murph – Wow, so what was the gist of his emergency email?

  • AdLib : CL – Like we’re saying though, Scalia cherry picks what has to be original intent and what isn’t. Would the framers support his assertion that it is up to the SCOTUS to override the COngress purely because they had a unanimous vote on something?

  • choicelady : Sally – being summa in history is no evidence of understanding since it depends on where, what he was being taught, and his views on history as static or vibrant. I think he just sold his soul to the corporate interests and doesn’t care a lick about anyone other than old white guys – of which his family would NOT BE ONE. He and Thomas share that ‘outsider’ role, people desperate to be included, to be part of the elite. Makes ’em nasty as hell.

  • AdLib : In a world of iPhones and the Internet, our society is supposed to be run in accordance with 18th century awareness? It makes sense Scalia sees himself as an strict constructionalis t, slavery was embedded in the Constitution so no surprise Scalia champions racism.

  • choicelady : Murph – that is a very good message from your friend! I know several ‘old guard’ GOP who are deeply worried about the fate of their party. Or what once was their party…

  • BourneID : Murph, I know; it’s hard to read him, so why does he get as much attention as he does? And CL, he’s very respected in the legal community (which BTW is no great honor since we have more than our share of legal morons here). The attention he gets is a mystery.

  • SallyT : I think Scalia knows the Constitution, he graduated valedictorian and summa cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in history. He just picks and chooses the parts and the times in history he cares about.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- just got an e mail from someone who I know pretty well. He is an old time GOP organizer. He was at meetings the last two days. His summary: “Murph- its Tora! Tora! Tora! Time at the GOP…fear of the waking giant seems to have driven us over the brink. Glad I no longer do this for a living. To think, it’s the Donkeys who are coming across as discipline, organized and on message.”

  • choicelady : AdLib – then all the decisions such as Citizens United that are tied to AMENDMENTS are void. That was a lousy call, but it would link today’s decisions to something AFTER the original framers did their deed.

  • choicelady : Murph – it’s like the Bible or any other guide. If it’s not a living document from which you can grow and improve, it’s moribund and therefore useless as a significant part of life.

  • AdLib : Murph – So true and proof of intentional ignorance is the view of the strict constructionist like Scalia who asserts that it is their job to adhere to what people were thinking in the 1700s. Why indeed would they have set up and amendment process if they didn’t believe the Constitution was a living document and not a petrified tree?

  • choicelady : Bourne – I guess it would be clear if I say that I had NO idea he was from Sacramento! Have to admit I don’t watch local news even though I’m a member of the Sacramento Press Club where a couple of the anchors are active members. But no – the Sacramento Bee never wrote anything I can recall about him. Wow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- I cannot get a good read on Kennedy…his decisions have been all over the place.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I have no doubt that Scalia knows the Constitution but I think he selectively edits it to fit his conception of what the Constitution should be. One of the reasons the contextual interpreters (loose constructionists ) make sense to me is because I think their approach is the approach of the Framers- adapt- indeed the amendment and revision process built into the document tells the tale.

  • AdLib : CL – You’re right and in the case of Repubs refusing to allow the SCOTUS to run properly, it would have complete justification to limit the filibuster.

  • BourneID : CL, you know Kennedy is from Sacramento – lifelong resident; private practice and taught at McGeorge; friend of Reagan when he was Governor and appointed by him. His name comes up as the one who will make the difference,. But have you seen any of ur major network affiliates try to get an interview with him or even mention his Sacramento connection?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I believe it would finally become apparent that the Senate would have to use the ‘nuclear option’ the GOP always threatened to use. But they’d scream and yell. Remind me of the Baby in Alice in Wonderland…

  • choicelady : Anyone – Scalia and Thomas are ripe for spontaneous combustion, but unfortunately they have one strength: it is posited that if you have meaning and purpose in your life, you will live long and prosper. They certainly do – assuring the ruling class IS a ruling class and the rest of us remain peasants.

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t know, could Repubs really stonewall against a SCOTUS member for years, leaving the court with only 8? And if Hillary runs and is elected, it’s inevitable that a conservative would leave.

  • AdLib : CL – Right. To Scalia, it’s all about using the Constitution like a bludgeon.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I likely won’t live long enough to see another justice confirmed so long as a Dem is the president!

  • AdLib : Imagine the insanity if one of the conservatives in the SCOTUS left and Obama was in a position to replace him? If you want to see Repubs go insane and try to prevent our government from operating, stay tuned for that.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree with your assessment, but outside of the archaic 3/5 and lack of universal suffrage, I can’t see much in the Constitution to justify his craven misanthropy.

  • AdLib : CL – Scalia is a nasty human being who only uses the portions of the Constitution that justify his spite and hatred of most people. When has he ever said anything resembling compassion for any human being?

  • choicelady : KT – sorry to see you for such a short time. Get a good cervical pillow if you don’t have one – helps those neck problems amazingly. Sleep well!

  • choicelady : Murph – Scalia really OUGHT to READ the Constitution. Really. It’s more than the articles. I doubt he even agrees with the Bill of Rights which probably seem like capitulation to the mob.

  • AdLib : Or maybe Scalia could get so pent up with hatred, he just spontaneously combusts?

  • SallyT : Good night KT. I will be watching for you tomorrow!

  • BourneID : Night KT. Have a good weekend.

  • choicelady : Sally – Thomas will say something all right. He will say there is no need for the voting rights protection since everyone is equal and if not, it’s your own damn fault. He and Cain have said that sort of thing for years. Never mind their own uses of laws and affirmative action to overcome racial biases.

  • AdLib : Night Killgore, rest your weary eyes and take care of yourself!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- good night. A pleasure.

  • SallyT : Madison had as many slaves as Jefferson. Not as many as Washington.

  • AdLib : Too bad Scalia wasn’t vacationing in Russia right where that meteor landed. I typically don’t wish ill towards anyone but seeing as how nothing will change in the SCOTUS since they have lifetime appointments, how else will change come?

  • KillgoreTrout : Well, good night Planeteers. My lids are getting heavy and my neck a bit stiff.

  • choicelady : Sally – I doubt he got that much out of it. I suspect he was always reading letters written by the slave-owning southern contingent. In “The Family” Jeff Sharlet notes that these hyper religious/conser vatives want Stonewall Jackson held up as the greatest American ever. Scalia would find him too modern.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- Scalia has been consistent is his willingness to cast aside whatever he dos not like and cloak that in the robe of “original construction and intention”. Nonsense.

  • SallyT : I know Thomas never says anything but how can he not on this. Didn’t he accuse them of lynching a black man when they were trying to confirm him?

  • AdLib : CL – I hope you’re right but Roberts took so much heat from the right over the ACA, I wonder if he’s just going to go along with the policy he’s supported for years anyway.

  • KillgoreTrout : It really bothers me that SC members are partisan. That’s not what the idea was to begin with. These people are supposed to be impartial. Ha!

  • choicelady : ADLib – yup. That’s the joke going round. He longs for his original work of his 18th century life.

  • SallyT : CL I think Scalia is always working from Madison’s first draft.

  • AdLib : CL – Scalia is talking about the Constitution he edited. In it, women and minorities still don’t have the right to vote and are regarded as 3/5 of a Scalia.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think Roberts might do the right thing again. There is much more at stake than there was with ACA. MUCH more.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL Blackman and Warren are encouraging examples. I also very much like the idea of Roberts as “self aware” and recognizing that his self is very much tied up with his court’s legacy.

  • choicelady : Murph – never forget Scalia is the one who said women had NO rights under the Constitution. Kinda leaves out the 14th and 19th amendments among many other things. Maybe he can’t count higher than 2?

  • AdLib : CL – We were surprised by Roberts on the ACA. It could happen again on the VRA but I doubt it. Perhaps it could be Kennedy who rescues this SCOTUS from racism. I just don’t know.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and Ad Lib….reading some of the commentary today from the legal world…”shock “, “outrage”, and “disgust” all come through. For Scalia in one breath to equate the vote with some kind of unearned giveaway (as conservatives see all entitlements) and then to say that congress does not have the competence or capacity to make proper decisions hit both the Civil Rights Attorneys and the Constitutionalis ts.

  • choicelady : Bourne – you can, without breaking a HUGE sweat, by in Portland in just a half day or so. 12 hours isn’t bad, is it, Sally?

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Sally, my daughter was just here for a brief visit, all the way from Portland. It was wonderfull to see her again after too many years.

  • choicelady : Murph – I’m not caught up, but I think your assessment of Roberts is correct. I have noted before that many of our SCOTUS figures began as awful people – Blackmun had been KKK and turned civil rights supporter. Warren was responsible for the internment of Japanese Americans yet pursued civil rights all the same. The spotlight of the court – the capacity to have a legacy of greatness of buffoonery – is very powerful. Roberts is not bright. He IS self aware. Kennedy has support the VRA before, and those two are pivotal in this decision.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yes, I saw that and think Maddow really understood Scalia. He is a bomb thrower and seems to delight in upsetting people by expressions of his hatred. He is a sick and twisted man, one of the worst if not the worst to ever sit on the SCOTUS.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne..me in charge of the press release….such power!

  • SallyT : AdLib, Rachel Maddow on Jon Stewart last night said that Scalia was like a troll on the internet. He loves to say stuff he knows will get people gasping!

  • AdLib : I also understand that not a word about the voter suppression of minorities was discussed in the VRA hearing.

  • BourneID : Sally…that’s not to far to drive. You know all of us Californians plan our trips by how many hours it takes to get to wherever we’re going. If I leave at 5 am, I could be there by lunctime. What do you think CL?

  • KillgoreTrout : LOL Ad. I can see it now! It was so entertaing that he did the same with Santorum and Perry. What a kidder that god!

  • choicelady : Murph – I think that’s wise. The grant I’m preparing – the single biggest balls up of a grant form EVER – is from the state via federal funds. Now we don’t even know if the first year is funded. Not a clue if all we’ve done is for naught.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- in truth the “Divine” whatever the him/her/its/thei r nature must look on us as one enormous and eternal source of amusement and bemusement.

  • SallyT : Bourne I live in beautiful liberal Portland OR

  • AdLib : Murph – I’m very angry about having racists on the SCOTUS who simultaneously disgrace their office by believing that a unanimous vote in Congress is a sign that they have to step in and take over lawmaking from Congress. I sure am hoping that your article is right and that Roberts now sees the danger in his court being remembered as racist for striking down the VRA’s key provision.

  • BourneID : CL 0 great. And, Mur[h, you can take of our press releases. Hi Sally; do you live near Sacramento? Can’t wait for tomorrow’s funnies.

  • SallyT : Hi KT! I was over there posting the funnies!

  • choicelady : As for the Voting Rights Act – yes, Sally.You called Scalia correctly. Someone tweeted he wanted to go back to the One White Man, One Vote, and I said well he’d lived through it in 1789 so he was just nostalgic.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I was wondering where you be!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…with the sequester there will be a hot mess in air travel….but I will join you metaphysically.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, he makes the rules after all.

  • choicelady : Murph – you can come over and join us. My treat for lunch! Airfare’s on you…

  • KillgoreTrout : Definitely the latter Ad. That, or god really does hath a sense of humor!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL and Bourne together again for the first time…alert the press.

  • AdLib : Imagine God sitting around chuckling to himself before he places a telepathic prank call to Michele Bachmann, trying not to giggle during it. “Uh Michele? Hi, it’s me. God. So…just wanted to tell you…you should run for President!” God then hangs up quickly and bursts out laughing.

  • choicelady : Hey Sally – I just got in, too, so we’re the Belated Twins tonight! Good to see you.

  • SallyT : Scalia is an ASSHOLE!

  • choicelady : Thanks Murph – I bookmarked it and will enjoy it totally! Bourne – YES. I will get AdLib (you listening AL?) to put us together. After next week and finishing the grant I was laboring over tonight, I MAY have jury duty. I will keep you posted! But yes – ONE OF THESE DAYS…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Can we chat about the Voting Rights Act and SCOTUS?

  • KillgoreTrout : Ha. The dice of god are loaded.

  • SallyT : I am always adrift so………….. ..dog paddling.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally, Choice just joined us and I think the party is entering into round 2. Topic a bit adrift right now…so perfect timing.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey, CL is in da widget! Howdy CL!

  • AdLib : Hey Sally! You’re never too late, welcome!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT…don’t you get it that God plays the line in his bets, parlaying a win by pulling up the odds.

  • SallyT : Good evening to everyone. Am I too late for the action?

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh no doubt. They’ve been champing at the bit to blame Obama for the slightest wiff of a terrorist attack.

  • BourneID : CL, where the heck have you been? It’s 9 pm here. One day, in the year 2013, we are going to meet for lunch, okay?

  • choicelady : Howdy AdLib – good to see you, too.

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, what is this with God telling losers to run for President? Or maybe, it’s only losers who need to believe God told them to run?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…I have been recommending this to the gang…very sharply pointed piece in the St. Louis Riverfront Times. THE 10 WEIRDEST MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. Really good. «link»

  • choicelady : KT – Einstein may have been correct, “God doesn’t play dice with the universe” but omitted that he MAY do so with the GOP and other fools and knaves.

  • BourneID : AdLib, maybe she was just trying to impress us.

  • AdLib : Hey CL! Good to see ya!

  • AdLib : Bourne – I do believe Bachmann was hearing voices in her head, I don’t believe it was God though.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, LOL! Didn’t god also tell Santorum and Perry to be president?

  • choicelady : Hi everyone – so sorry I’m late. Just home from work AND forgot it was Friday! Got caught up on God pushing Michelle Bachmann and…oh, not so much.

  • AdLib : KT – I wouldn’t give them that much credit for being so intellectual. I think this is low brow politics. The Baggers in the House are mad about the Bush tax cut deal and want to slash all government, Boehner has to kowtow to them but knows that after this week, the real negotiations start. Repubs don’t care about the welfare of the nation, just advancing their agenda so I don’t think they’re calculating in that our military is safe as is. In fact, if there was an act of terrorism during this, they’d blame Obama.

  • BourneID : AdLib, I think God has a sense of humor. How he could he not? The fact He old her to run didn’t mean she would win. That was her interpretation. dpm

  • KillgoreTrout : Bourne, they’re still waiting to actually see a monkey turn into a man! ;)

  • AdLib : Bourne – I thought God told Bachmann to run for President. So how does that square with God as a Repub, with her losing badly and quickly in the primary and Obama winning re-election? As a certain TX governor might say, “Oops!”

  • BourneID : KT, I think you nailed it. As far as the TP is concerned, nothing else exists does it? The world is only 12,000 years old as they calculate it. Not only sad, completely disgusting.

  • KillgoreTrout : The repubs know that our defense spending is really not an urgent issue. We have the most powerful, technological military in the world. The best! If we were engaged in another world war, yes, I would want more defense spending. But that is not going to happen anytime soon.

  • AdLib : Bourne – Which is why the GOP Elite are intent on slashing money for education and standards for schools. Their agenda goes against the best interests of their members so the more ignorant their base is, the easier to lead them like mindless lemmings over a cliff. Critical thinking and blind faith are not compatible, they are polar opposites. If people can become comfortable with considering what something means on their own and not dependent on their “betters” to tell them how to think about things, so much could change.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….I hope you are correct. Remember that a strong contingent of the Tea Party is quasiLibertarian and they are very anti-Defense as the neocons shaped it. I think that what it may come down to is a GOP decision to do without those votes and make an across the aisle deal with the Dems. If public reaction to the GOP is increasingly negative the future of the party may finally be seen as so critical that a go for broke strategy emerges.

  • KillgoreTrout : Wow Bourne. What a concept. The master of the universe is concerned about the machinations of one country on a planet among billions of planets? That is quite funny, in a ridiculous sort of way!

  • AdLib : KT – We have to keep in mind that what has been happening the last 4 years is wholly unprecedented in American history. And Obama is big on history. When one knows that the out of power party always threatens about the debt ceiling but always raises it, one doesn’t assume that this history will be suddenly decimated. Obama has had to deal with a House of Saboteurs, unlike any President in recent history. And as low as they go, it’s hard to imagine how low they could go the next time…but Obama has to try. I faulted him for pushing bipartisanship after Repubs stabbed him in the back on the stimulus but int this case, I am surprised myself the Repubs are letting Defense get whacked.

  • BourneID : AdLib, unfortunately I thik your right. I always feel relieved that we can assume some of this is regional – doesn’t affect my California life. But the other day, I received an email – an all points bulletin type – from a family member who sent us urgent information reported by Fox News. Needless to say, it was all garbage. Most of my family members are Republican and therefore most of them are stupid. I’m the only who escaped. It was nothing more that junk food – I wrote to my niece who ives in LA and is the only one who’s joined me and corrected several things. All the sender did was repeat the blather that Fox reported…just disgusting. BTW, do you expect Michelle and Sarah to have any more visions since they believe God is a republican?

  • KillgoreTrout : It just burns my butt that the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were extended. I know Obama wanted to save middle class tax cuts and unemployment extensions. What a price to pay though!

  • AdLib : Murph – I agree, most pols underestimated the will of the Baggers to destroy our economy. And Boehner’s lack of a spine only aided and abetted. Even so, this is a temporary situation, the Repubs will not abandon the defense industry because they need those campaign contributions. So, there will be a plan that replaces the sequester and it will include some revenue increases and some entitlement cuts. The details are what will unfold in the months ahead.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I know. It amazes me, after all the shit GOPers have tried to heap on Obama, that he would still think they might act in the country’s best interests. Obama really does believe that bipartisanship is the American way. He has to, really.

  • AdLib : KT – But what was the alternative for Obama? If not for the sequester, we would have likely had Repubs refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Then the economy crashes and burns in 2012 and President Romney’s in the WH today. Sometimes, there are limited choices to get out of a terrible situation, sequestration sure looks like the best possible path he had.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph it is disgusting how the GOPers are trying to downplay the impact of the sequester. Liars and cheats till the end.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT. Not only did Obama fail to imagine how bad the GOP could be but so did the Dems AND so did the GOP itself. Most of the regular rank and file have been cut out of the real decision making and they are afraid, very afraid.

  • AdLib : Bourne – I think that’s pretty much how it is, for most of these people, their belief system is melded with their religion and political party. To change from voting Republican would be like changing from believing in Christianity. These are pillars of their identity and as we discussed about the Southern master-slave mindset, many are very content to feel like their “masters” need to be served first and best so they will be treated better.

  • KillgoreTrout : Good point Ad!

  • KillgoreTrout : I couldn’t agree more Ad, Murph! The sequester was meant to be a thing to be avoided in hopes of a more rational deal. But who ever said the GOPers were rational. This is where Obama’s insight fell short. You can’t count on crazy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- they have been convinced that this black man and his demoncrat allies are betraying them…everythin g else is secondary.

  • AdLib : Heh, thanks Murph.

  • BourneID : Murph I agree. Sad as it is, the people in the rural areas are going to hurt. I just do not get why they are so afraid to let go of decades of believing the same people telling the same lies. Are they so entrenched in their traditions and culture that they don’t trust their own judgment.

  • AdLib : KT – When Extremist Christians own the arena, it’s heathens who are thrown into the lion’s den.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- you in the lion’s den….poor lions

  • AdLib : KT – I think that if we could have another stimulus and get jobs going, we would be earning our way out of the deficit. This is why the Repubs so strongly oppose revenue, then they wouldn’t have an excuse to slash entitlements and government helping people.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- short term our GDP can take the level of expenditure and most of the extrapolations I have seen show that this holds true through 2016 and then we slide into territory so negative we look like Greece or Portugal. The time to tackle some of this is now but not this way.

  • AdLib : Yes Bourne, I’m in LA. And I received emails from Bera from the beginning, was rooting all the way because Lungren was such a caveman. You’ve got a good Rep now!

  • KillgoreTrout : I thought lion’s dens were for Christians! ;)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…I spoke with the office of my GOP member of Congress. I know local staff. They were candid- The GOP’s regular rank and file are completely cut out of what is going on right now. In my area the sequester is going to really hurt the military and education….the farm bill will be cut as well. When my neighbors realize what is going on they will be unhappy…but who will they blame.

  • KillgoreTrout : Does anyone think that we are really as cash strapped as both parties will have us believe?

  • AdLib : Murph – Sure would make CPAC really entertaining, throwing a heathen into the lion’s den!

  • BourneID : AdLib, I was surprised and pleased at the number who joined me working for our newly elected Congressman, Dr. Ami Bera. He defeated Dan Lungren who sat on his useless butt for 20 years. I have good feelings about the reps from the 5 districts in the Sacramento area – dem and repub – they’ve formed their own caucus and meet weekly in DC talking about our area and what needs to happen nationally. Aren’t you from LA?

  • KillgoreTrout : Money makes the world go round. Always has and always will. Sad to say.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I agree with you and I agree with where the decision is going on the Obama side….you outline why he should and why he shouldn’t do it.

  • KillgoreTrout : What do we get out of it? Money, money money!

  • AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well, my friend!

  • AdLib : Night glenn! Have fun at soccer! See you around this weekend!

  • AdLib : Murph – I do think it is a very calculated decision by Obama to allow Keystone to happen, he doesn’t want to be seen as anti-energy, he wants to take that away from Repubs as a weapon to demonize him and the Dems but I do think it is the wrong decision and making it for that reason is a big mistake. Bottom line is that we will have to live with a lot of pollution, there will be next to no new jobs created in the US and the chance for a catastrophic accident, which we just had in the Gulf not so long ago, will exist. For what? What do we get out of it? I think Obama should have to answer that question.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes sweet dreams kes. Stay warm.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Goodnight Kes and Glenn.

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend glenn and I hope your team wins.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- you would need a flying wedge of Planetary BodyGuards…dre ssed like Elijah Muhammmad’s Fruit Islam. Sun glasses and all. But boy would that be impressive.

  • glenn : Murph–because the rules are different for Congress and the President. The President has to compromise with them; they just get to take pro-forma recesses, so the president can’t make appointments.

  • kesmarn : G’night, glenn. Stay warm!

  • AdLib : Good for you Bourne! I sure hope there are many others out there like you who are impacting the intransigence of Boehner in his quest to mollify the Baggers in The House.

  • kesmarn : Well, kids, I’m winding down fast here. So I’ll toddle off. Try to stay warm and have a great weekend!

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, they’re blinded by the light of power. Their level of stupidity is astounding. They are cunning, but cunning is not equal to intelligence.

  • glenn : Much as I’d love to stay, I’m going to have to check out. Have to leave the house at 7:45 tomorrow morning for the first soccer game of the season! Good night all. Have a great weekend; I’m sure I’ll see you around over the weekend.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- Why don’t the press scream down the House about Boehner’s unwillingness to ever take questions…same for McConnell…

  • AdLib : Murph – Heh, would I have a ton of fun if I could speak to CPAC! It would be more like a stand up act with the jokes being in the audience.

  • kesmarn : Right glenn, he refuses to use Bush bully tactics, so his options are limited to what is legal.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : BOURNE!!!1 YOU GO, GIRL! Great call to the Speaker.

  • glenn : Bourne, Good on ya’!

  • AdLib : KT – This is why the GOP is doomed to lose at least the next 2 Presidential elections, they think that all they need to do is find a better use of propaganda to sell the destructive policies of theirs that only help the top 1%. They think that just waving Rubio around as their token Latino will get the Latino votes they need…so they can be in power and destroy the lives of Latinos with their policies. They still don’t get it when it comes to how wrong they are for the majority of Americans so when it comes to the Presidency, they still won’t get it for a long time, IMO.

  • kesmarn : Hope that one went through loud and clear, Bourne.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I hear what you are saying about Keystone but I wonder if this is all about making the most practical decision and not the most ethical one.

  • glenn : Kes–he also asked the reporters, “what would you have me do?” and none of the smartasses had an answer for him. Or maybe that thing of locking them in a room with him was their answer for “showing leadership.”

  • BourneID : Boehner is an absolute disgrace. For those of you who don’t know, I am registered republican and I’m ashamed of the party. I supported the President in both elections but remain republican because it’s like entry ticket into some secret society and I get calls directly from his office in DC. I called his office the other day and left his message. “Mr. Speaker, what the hell are you doing to my country? You said the Senate should get off its Ass- I suggest you remove your head from your own.”

  • kesmarn : You can just see the frustration on the President’s face trying to deal with these guys. Today he said: “I can’t call the secret service when they want to walk out and make them block the door…”

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib-+- I wonder if CPAC would be interested in having you be a speaker….”The Glorious Future of the GOP….from a Progressive”

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s always bad reasoning, like, “Well, someone’s going to steal that purse that’s sitting there so why not us?” I really disagree with the Obama Admin on this, there is no upside for us, only downside and a big upside only for China and the oil/gas companies involved.

  • KillgoreTrout : The recent attempt to change the wording of their “message,” just shows that they really aren’t willing to change their political ideologies. They think no one can see through what they’re doing.

  • glenn : Damn–should NOT be allowed to govern.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…I think the report is about who gets to control those sands and it suggests that there is a greater chance the controls will be put into place by us than another developer. Pretty sure I do not believe that.

  • AdLib : Glenn – Christie would never go indie IMO, then he would have no party infrastructure behind him and he would be draining more GOP votes from their moderates than Dems who would be voting for Hillary.

  • glenn : Ad–glad to hear it. I don’t think repubs and especially t/partiers should be allowed to govern until they show us they actually know how to govern.

  • AdLib : glenn – Actually, I don’t think the Repubs will be positioned to win the Presidency for a long time. Everything they do to undermine the nation in Congress and having a nominee who supports their more and more extreme policies, means they remain a minority in a national election. Christie would never win the GOP primary, someone like Ryan could. They are declining as a party that could win a national election. So, my guess is, if Hillary runs, she’s in for 8 years. By then, who knows what the GOP will look like…a ghost town full of lunatics or a party trying to bridge the loons with the middle. Either way, it’s not exactly a recipe for success.

  • kesmarn : KT, I sure wish they’d build ’em and leave us out of it.

  • KillgoreTrout : kess, I don’t think they have the necessary refineries.

  • kesmarn : Or crying, Murph. Which is all the time.

  • glenn : Murph–of course, we should be the ones polluting our environment. Why would we let someone else do that? And given geography, who else besides us could do it?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kes…Boehner only drinks when he is awake…

  • kesmarn : I’ve always be confused as to why Canada doesn’t pipe that stuff to one of their own western ports.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I think what the report is saying is that someone is going to do it….so better us.

  • kesmarn : Between that Keystone and fracking, I think there may be pain ahead. At least for those of us who drink water. Boehner will be safe.

  • glenn : Murph, I think if Christie went “indie”, he would be a formidable opponent for any Dem.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn….I read a month or so ago that Epa chief Lisa Jackson suddenly resigned because she was convinced that President Obama is planning to green-light the project…so I do not think so.

  • AdLib : Murph – It’s a dishonest report. Because the tar sands are developed in Canada, it won’t affect the global atmosphere and support further climate change? But if it was in the US it would? Huh? And what would be the impact of a spill near the water table that serves a huge portion of the midwest?

  • KillgoreTrout : I wouldn’t want to be Chistie’s heart! Whew! What a load.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- yes Christie is a NJ giant in more ways than one. Can he stay GOP in that environment. I don’t know. He seems very committed to staying true to himself…I think he may go Independent in not too distant future since his heart is not Dem and he has no future in the GOTP

  • glenn : Murph–doesn’t the pipeline have to be “vetted” by the EPA, too?

  • AdLib : Kes – I don’t know but Obama’s State Department folks just deemed Keystone “environmentall y acceptable”.

  • glenn : AdLib–do you think we’ll have another repub president anytime soon? And, if we do get another repub president, what will Democrats in Congress do as far as working with the President?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I read through the State Dept. review of Keystone…. the State Department said the pipeline won’t make much of a difference to climate change because the tar sands will likely be developed anyway. IN OTHER WORDS, it is not a true environmental impact review at all.It summarizes the dangers, offers remediation steps, and then says that it is not making a recommendation. Odd.

  • KillgoreTrout : I think Christiee is too much of a Yankee for the GOP. He’s not one of the good ole boy network.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yep, had Romney won, goodbye “Obamacare”, financial regs, pollution controls, democracy and hello to plutocracy, indebtedness and poverty for most Americans and SS and Medicare hobbled. Jesus, it would have been the worst turn of events in recent memory, outdoing Bush.

  • BourneID : Hey Mueph. Christie has a huge approval rating in NJ. Maybe getting chopped by the GOP would a gift. I like him; he thinks, talks, and acts like a US Attorney. I can’t think that he has the patience to put up with the crap that comes from his party. I don’t see him as a political animal; do you?

  • KillgoreTrout : Bubble headed bleach blonde!

  • kesmarn : That is a shame, AdLib. Does he think the battle is just not winnable?

  • glenn : Murph, you really should watch it. It was awesome watching the two of them interact!

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, Stewart isn’t on Fridays.

  • AdLib : Kes – I think Obama is not going to fight hard against the Keystone pipeline now and that is a damn shame. It is a huge destructive, polluting and ongoing danger…and all the oil is going to be shipped out of the US, most likely to China!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks Glenn

  • kesmarn : AdLib, the whole last four years would have been undone and then some. And if Ryan got into the driver’s seat — I shudder to think.

  • glenn : Murph–Rachel was on Stewart last night. You can always catch it on Stewart’s website because the interview went over and he posted it to the web.

  • kesmarn : Bourne, Megyn Kelly is the worst of the worst.

  • AdLib : Kes – A Romney Presidency was a terrifying thing, if he had more of a chance to beat Obama, I would have been very stressed out. Imagine where we would be even now, after only a month and a half. It really is unimaginable.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne….Rachel on Stewart…was that tonight?

  • kesmarn : Without cable, I have to ask: are we getting the Keystone XL pipeline? For real?

  • KillgoreTrout : The so cA

  • BourneID : Hey kT, great to see ya. Kes, don’t you love the way the Fox bimbos give advice about proper behavior. Rachel could obliterate her in a New York minute.

  • glenn : Murph–sounds good to me!

  • AdLib : Murph – Is it too late to put Baggers in a North Dakota Gulag?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…Gitmo in the summer and N. Dakota in the winner with rendition transport in between (bagged, blindfolded and gagged). Like it.

  • glenn : Kes, maybe to an independent, but I don’t see him going Dem. Or, he may be like Crist and surprise all of us.

  • AdLib : KT, I do agree that there was an attempt to steal Hillary voters by having a female as McCain’s VP though since McCain never really even knew who Palin was before bringing her onto his ticket, I don’t think there could have been any sexual-desire element there for him. He wanted to be President, that’s what he lusted for most.

  • kesmarn : Any chance Christie will switch parties?

  • KillgoreTrout : I agree glenn. They just can’t see past demographics. They’re all surface and no real substance.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib – good insight re. Christie- I have to think the more he gets slammed from the right, the more he is going to be forced to choose which side he is on or risk seeing his popularity chopped.

  • kesmarn : That’s as scary a scenario as Ryan being veep to Romney’s presidency… {{shudder}}

  • BourneID : glenn, I agree. She is brilliant with or without her degrees. Hi AdLib. Too much going on not to joing on in DC not to find something to talk about.

  • glenn : Murph–better yet, in Gitmo!

  • AdLib : Murph – Great film, really enjoyed Game Change. It really is pretty scary to consider how possible it was for Sarah Palin to have been VP and had a great deal of power (who knows, in the position of President, the stress could have made McCain ill…or worse.(.

  • glenn : KT–the repubs/tp’s have yet to figure out that Dem women, like me, are much smarter than their women. We require substance behind the facade.

  • KillgoreTrout : Bourne’s in da widget? Hey Bourne, glad you could make it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn- if Obama was a Tyrant….the GOPERS just don’t get it- they would be in some North Dakota Gulag.

  • AdLib : Hey Bourne! Great to see you! Welcome back!

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, I still think there was a sexual lement to McCain’s decision. That and the foolish belief that dem women would switch parties and vote for a female VP. It was a reaction to the talk of Hillary possibly being elected. Just like the GOP sudden love for Rubio, because he’s Hispanic.

  • kesmarn : Hi Bourne! I hear that FOX’s Megyn Kelly is demanding that Rachel apologize for the “troll” comment. Somehow I doubt that’s going to happen.

  • glenn : Bourne–saw that too and loved it! She was completely right.

  • AdLib : Murph – Christie is having to contort his corpulent self to keep the Baggers from cementing him in the reject bin so he’ll offer these ridiculous olive branches to them…IOW, insult and attack Obama. It won’t help him, he would never win a Repub Presidential primary now. His downfall in the primaries is what would make him most competitive in the GE.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : BOURNE!!!!! Greetings. Watch or jump in…just glad you are here.

  • glenn : Murph–don’t you just “love” the repubs/tpartiers ? How can the President be a “dictator”, a “tyrant”, and an “emperor” (the newest one I read today), yet not be leading?

  • BourneID : Good evening all. I’ve been away a long time, so I will just follow this very interesting conversation. Just saw Rachel Maddow on Jon Stewart show she was in the Supreme Court during discussion of voting rights act. Says Scalia is a real troll and enjoys shocking the crowd…thinks he’s amusing. Quite interesting. Now, I’ll quietly read follow your onversation.

  • kesmarn : Would we see a discernable difference in their behavior?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Game Change is running on HBO right now and I have it turned on…..

  • AdLib : I will pay $12 to anyone who puts LSD in the CPAC punch bowl.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn Christie said a couple of days ago that the sequester was Obama’s fault for not leading but I think as the spin masters fill the airwaves his message will change.

  • AdLib : KT – Nope, McCain was facing an absolute loss unless he had a “game changer”, Obama was too far ahead of him after the conventions and he was desperate. The book and movie Game Change document that, it actually shows what a greedy idiot McCain is.

  • glenn : Kes–bipartanshi p NOT allowed. Oops!

  • kesmarn : They need to have a few Texas Secessionist weirdos to liven of the CPAC circus. KT was it you who posted the Jon Stewart vid of the Texas folks?

  • glenn : Murph–didn’t know that about the relief funds being affected by the sequester. Can’t wait until Christie sounds off on that one!

  • KillgoreTrout : Thinking of a sexually active McCain makes me shudder! ;)

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, me too. I usually buy the already made mixed, then add a few olives, cukes and radishes.

  • glenn : Kes–Bingo! Bipartisanship is now allowed in the r/tp’s world!

  • AdLib : Isn’t CPAC the Repub equivalent of ComicCon? All the loony people showing up in character and costume as “Racist Man”! and “Gay Hater”!. They are as 2 dimensional and ridiculously colorful as comic book characters!

  • kesmarn : Palin will be too old soon even for McGrumpy McCain.

  • glenn : K.T.–I cop to laziness when it comes to salads. Also because I live by myself, I can never eat all of the ingredients before they go bad. I have discovered already made, fairly small salads that work better for me.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ha, I believe grampa McCain was thinking with his smaller head when he picked Palin.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…can you imagine what Christie is going to say about the 2.5 billion being cut out Sandy relief by the sequester…http ://www.dailyreco rd.com/article/2 0130301/NJNEWS/3 03010028/NJ-Sequ ester-impact-San dy-aid-cut-2-9B and there are more cuts…billions more.

  • kesmarn : Just too darned bipartisan for today’s foaming at the mouth version of the GOP — that Christie.

  • AdLib : Kes – Many RWs had a sexual infatuation with Palin and the bottom line is, as she ages, those superficial guys will continue to forget about her.

  • KillgoreTrout : I will admit that making a good salad IS expensive these days. I think a lot of it boils down to just plain laziness.

  • glenn : Kes-Yup, it’s true. Christie slammed his fellow r/tp’s for holding up the Sandy relief right after he hung around with and said nice things about the President, so he’s no longer “one of them”.

  • kesmarn : Oops to shout that the woman should go to prison!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- When Woodward went on Hannity I knew he knew his goose was cooked and this AM Bob W, was taken to task by Axelrod.

  • kesmarn : And glenn, the beautiful thing is that if a woman actaully did shoot her abuser, Bachmann would be the first to shout

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, there is both a cultural and economic reason for obesity to be so profound in the South and Midwest. The diet includes so much fried and processed food for those reasons. And when you don’t have a lot of money, you just can’t afford a lot of fruits and veggies…not when you can get a McDonalds hamburger for $1.

  • glenn : Kes–bachmann voted against the VAWA because those women who “let” themselves have violence against them just didn’t have the right guns. C’mon–they need to take some personal responsibility, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and quite living off the government!

  • KillgoreTrout : Romney and Ann finally crawled out from under their rock today, or yesterday, to make their views known as to the sequester. They’re having a hard time being “nobodies.”

  • kesmarn : glenn, speaking of CPAC, I heard Chris Christie was pointedly NOT invited. Did you hear anything like that?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KT- it is a very good piece….well worth a look. Local journalism.

  • AdLib : Murph – Actually, it’s funny that Woodward was left alone to BS in his previous two books without being taken to task. When you have a bit of celebrity power, you get a pass far too often. I think though that others, like us, are now looking back at his previous works to see just how dishonest he’s been and gotten away with it.

  • KillgoreTrout : Murph, those ten must be very, very weird to gain that status.

  • kesmarn : Murph, Bachmann actually voted against the Violence Against Women Act. I guess when women get beat up she thinks that they “asked for it.”

  • glenn : Ad–were they 7-11 cookies?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Palin reminds me of Bachmann and Bachmann reminds me of a really excellent, and very sharply pointed piece in the St. Louis Riverfront Times. THE 10 WEIRDEST MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. Really good. «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : I think Palin has coasted, most of her teen/adult life, on her looks.

  • glenn : Ad–Amen to palin being gone. Hey, she and Mitt will be together at the CPAC convention. You know the repubs/tpartiers –they’re like wack-a-moles–yo u push them down and they just keep popping up in a different place.

  • kesmarn : KT, I think you’re right. Red States probably do have a higher rate of obesity.

  • AdLib : glenn: Sarah Palin served up a treat for a group of private school students in Pennsylvania on Tuesday night, in an attempt to teach them the virtues of limited government. During a paid speech at a fundraiser for Plumstead Christian School in Plumstead Township, Pennsylvania, the former Alaska governor announced she brought cookies with her, local station WPVI-TV reports. “I brought dozens and dozens of cookies,” she said. “I had to shake it up for you guys, especially the press okay.” As she Tweeted earlier in the day, Palin wanted to “intro kids 2 beauty of laissez-faire via serving them cookies amidst school cookie ban debate.” She called it “Nanny state run amok!” «link»

  • kesmarn : And I think she just turned 50 (or is about to), AdLib. For a person as vain/shallow as she is, that’s gonna hurt.

  • KillgoreTrout : Palin is a nasty person. Vindictive.

  • AdLib : Kes – Which is why I get such satisfying schadenfreude at Palin’s 15 minutes being over. She’s like the wicked witch, I swear I can hear her whining, “I’m melting, I’m melting, what a world!”

  • kesmarn : glenn, someone else invented the term “Tundra Twunt” for Palin. A made up word, but it sure sounded nasty!

  • KillgoreTrout : Is it me, or is there a greater percentage of obesity with the rural, redneck population?

  • glenn : K.T. Early days yet–the lamb doesn’t get here until the end of the month.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…funny that the media has given Woodward a lot of chances to recover from this latest fiasco….no one brought this up….or the wide ranging critique of his last two misinformational efforts.

  • glenn : AdLib–palin didn’t really say it in those words, did she? Best description I ever heard of her is “the Palindora box of lunacy”–and that was from a Brit!

  • KillgoreTrout : No, it’s March. I’m still waiting for the lamb.

  • kesmarn : Oh yeah, that’s right, AdLib! And guess who would have been the first one to make fun of the FLOTUS had she gained weight. Mizz Palin.

  • AdLib : Yep, that’ll teach Michelle Obama a lesson, put your kid on a path to diabetes and a heart attack!

  • KillgoreTrout : It’s so sad the way the redneck GOPers constantly slime Michelle. They hate president Obama, but they really hate Michelle. She’s far too African American for those racist yahoos.

  • glenn : K.T., it’s been a little inconsistent weatherwise. Last week we had highs in the upper 60’s, and now we are going to have this cold spell. Isn’t it March that the saying goes “comes in like a lion, and goes out like a lamb”? Or is that another month?

  • AdLib : Kes – Let’s not forget how Sarah Palin responded to Michele’s health guidelines, “Let’s all eat sugar and fat to give her the finger!”

  • KillgoreTrout : Excellent point glenn. A great way to say it.

  • AdLib : glenn – Just put the pictures of millionaire Brit chefs next to that of Michele Obama and the reason for her being treated much differently is quite clear.

  • kesmarn : Poor Michelle Obama cannot catch a break no matter what she does. Present at the Oscars… Try to wean the kiddies off of deep-fried Twinkies… nothing is right in their book.

  • glenn : K.T., Money doesn’t change your personality; it only brings out the parts you had to keep hidden when you didn’t have any money. Or, that’s the way it seems in Trump’s case.

  • KillgoreTrout : Wow glenn that’s surpizing, weather wise.

  • AdLib : Murph – And it sure seems that Woodward acted as a co-conspirator, knowing that a Bush Admin official broke the law by disclosing top secret information but not telling the authorities.

  • KillgoreTrout : As to the substance and character of the very wealthy? Just look at Donald Trump to see how money doesn’t make one a better human being.

  • glenn : K.T. I’m about 40 miles northwest of Atlanta, GA

  • kesmarn : Yes, I wonder how one would have to say the words: “lean protein, fresh fruits and vegetables and plenty of hydration” to be able to qualify for a multi-million paycheck. Meantime, there’s no one to deliver pain meds to the suffering.

  • glenn : AdLib and Kes, while they have celebrity chefs in hospitals in England, Michelle Obama is vilified by the right for wanting our kids to eat healthy. Go figure!

  • AdLib : KT – Whimpergate continues because the clueless Woodward keeps thinking he can talk his way out of the lie he told and he can’t.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Kes…dig into the CIA thing and you come up with the Bush/Cheney coverup with Woodward providing cover.

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, where are you?

  • AdLib : Kes – That’s how the elite and wealthy think. Take money away from the damn poor people and give it to millionaires to tell us all how to be superior like them!

  • glenn : K.T.–the daffodils have begun blooming here; yet it is supposed to be in the 20’s for my granddaughter’s 8:30 a.m. soccer game tomorrow.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad. Is Woodward still whimpering?

  • kesmarn : Murph, I didn’t know that Woodward was mixed up in the Plame thing as well.

  • KillgoreTrout : Kes, COLD. I am sure ready for Spring. Brrrr.

  • AdLib : Hey Killgore!

  • KillgoreTrout : glenn, just fine thanks.

  • AdLib : Murph – Thanks for that! And this section was very interesting, “Woodward did not share the information with Washington Post Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr. until last month, and the only Post reporter whom Woodward said he remembers telling in the summer of 2003 does not recall the conversation taking place. “

  • kesmarn : Hey, KT, how are things in the State Capitol?

  • glenn : K.T.–muy bien, y tu?

  • kesmarn : And they do the strangest things with the money that they do control in the UK — like firing lots of nurses and then hiring Celebrity Chefs at wages in the millions to try to improve hospital food. Crazy.

  • KillgoreTrout : hi folks Que Pasa?

  • kesmarn : Yes, AdLib and glenn, that lines up with what c’lady was saying — that he was charismatic but dim-witted in high school, doesn’t it?

  • AdLib : Kes – Indeed, and the austerity that has been imposed on the Brit people has been far worse than what we’ve been experiencing (pre-sequestrati on that is). They are destroying the health care system, support for the poor and needy, it is a growing mess over there.

  • glenn : Kes–sure seems as though Bernstein did do the heavy lifting; since Woodward can’t even talk his way out of the mess he himself created. Not a very impressive use of words for someone who makes his living by words.

  • AdLib : Kes – I really do wonder now, might it not have been Bernstein who was the real genius and Woodward just cruised behind in his wake, taking far more credit than he deserved?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : DO WE ALL RECALL this about WOODWARD: Washington Post Assistant Managing Editor Bob Woodward testified under oath Monday in the CIA leak case that a senior administration official told him about CIA operative Valerie Plame and her position at the agency nearly a month before her identity was disclosed. In a more than two-hour deposition, Woodward told Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald that the official casually told him in mid-June 2003 that Plame worked as a CIA analyst on weapons of mass destruction, and that he did not believe the information to be classified or sensitive, according to a statement Woodward released yesterday….ETC . «link»

  • kesmarn : AdLib, that has to be as frustrating to working class Brits as it is to us here. This gerrymandering needs to be stopped.

  • AdLib : glenn – Yes, never underestimate how small and petty people can be, despite their celebrity.

  • glenn : Kes–I’m with you; haven’t followed Woodward that closely, either. But from what I’ve read, he’s always been a republican, not a progressive.

  • kesmarn : glenn, I’ve heard speculation that Bernstein did the heavy lifting.

  • AdLib : Kes – It seems that here and in the UK, the RW has proven its philosophy and economics to be bankrupt but their grip on power remains greater than it should be due to their and the wealthy’s manipulation of the system. So, just as we are stuck until at least 2020 with a gerrymandered nation giving a lopsided amount of power to Repubs despite their minority status in states and the nation, the UK system too has been compromised so that the RW has power despite having support from only a minority.

  • glenn : Kes–doesn’t it make you wonder who really did the investigative reporting? Was it Woodward or Bernstein? Kinda makes you wonder about who really did all the work, and why Bernstein no longer works for the same paper.

  • kesmarn : glenn, I haven’t closely followed Woodward. Do you know — is he an “emo-prog” who’s been faulting Obama for not being lefty enough?

  • kesmarn : I saw that comment later today, AdLib. I gathered he was really full of himself and not even that smart. Think of all the talented investigative reporters out there who worked hard and never got the recognition he did.

  • glenn : Kes-and because Woodward was persona non grata with the gop, he probably thought President Obama would welcome him with open arms, or kiss his feet, or something. When that didn’t happen, he turned into a snake, just like McCain did against his “friend” Hagel.

  • AdLib : kes – From what Choicelady was saying, who went to the same school with Woodward though he was ahead of her, he has always been part of the entitled class and was a shallow snob even back then.

  • kesmarn : Yes, the UK is in meltdown mode and Cameron and Osborne are BAFFLED — I tell you BAFFLED — as to why that might be!

  • kesmarn : So bizarre coming from the guy who was persona non grata with the GOP Washington insiders for so long.

  • AdLib : Kes – The UK is looking pretty dysfunctional too. Tories came in 3rd behind a fringe group in this week’s elections!

  • glenn : Murph–I think that’s why most of the right has a problem with President Obama–how dare this young whippersnapper come out of nowhere with only one speech (at the Democratic National Convention) and rise to the presidency? They think he really has not “paid his dues.” That and a combination of latent racism.

  • AdLib : Murph – I think you really summed it up. There seems to be this elitist white man snobbery coming from Woodward since Obama won, as if he just couldn’t fully accept him as President. And like a lot of other old white elitists in the beltway, the sense of entitlement for them above others is almost palpable.

  • kesmarn : One of my friends said today that at the moment the only country that looks crazier than we do is Italy.

  • kesmarn : Right, AdLib. Of course to the rest of the world this just looks like lunacy.

  • glenn : AdLib–I remember when we had a “loyal opposition”. At least they put country first and didn’t consider compromise a dirty word.

  • AdLib : Kes – And I think this is because in the end, the GOP can’t prevail so they make a big show of standing against something…they will eventually and necessarily fold on.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib et. al. A word about Woodward….his bias against the Obama admin has been obvious for a while. His last two books demonstrate it. I think Woodward belongs to a crowd of “inside the beltway” elites that consider Obama unworthy of the presidency. He lacked the experience necessary; did not really understand how Washington worked, and did not respect the long established “ways” of the ruling classes. He did not pay proper respect to those classes. Woodward sees himself as a member of one of those classes, high profile journalists.

  • AdLib : glenn – The Repubs do want to keep crisis as the norm but they also need to serve their masters so some crises will be shorter than others. We’ve got the sequestration then the debt ceiling…I wonder if most Americnas remember life before a Repub House…when we didn’t live in constant crisis?

  • glenn : AdLib–Egocentri c describes Woodward nowadays.

  • kesmarn : Yes, glenn, I think a lot of it is the theater of saying a snotty “No!” before they eventually say yes.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good evening Ad LIb

  • AdLib : Hey Murph!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thank you Kesman

  • glenn : Kes–yes, I actually think that is going to be the new normal. They failed to make President Obama a one-term president, so they will do everything they can to sabotage his second term. Not to mention, they get to grandstand in front of cameras for a while before they do anything.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yes, it’s been a ridiculous dance, towards and away “threatened” then intimating threatened seems okay but saying it explicitly is untrue…he is only spotlighting that he has no grasp of truth and for a journalist, that is jumping off a cliff.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph! Nice article on the Supreme Court today.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Glenn….it is fine here…at night in the low 30’s and during the day 40’s

  • glenn : Greetings, Murph. Are you staying warm?

  • kesmarn : Is this the new “normal”? Fight the VAWA act, but eventually approve it. Fight the Hagel appointment, but eventually approve it. Now this…?

  • AdLib : glenn – I think Woodward knows he’s in a hole but like many egocentric people, he thinks he’s so clever, he can dig out of it…while obliviously digging deeper. I think he is like so many elitists, so out of touch with how they’re perceived and shocked that they can’t just declare reality to be what best suits them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings one and all

  • glenn : AdLib–saw the “tail end” of a Rachel Maddow segment where she was saying about ryan already saying that when the debt ceiling comes around again, the r/tp’s are not going to “cave” like they did this time. IOW, government by crisis!

  • AdLib : Whoops…a “grand deal” of some kind may very well take its place.

  • kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, and hasn’t Woodward shifted his story several times as well. First he felt threatened and then no, he didn’t…blah.. ..blah And fer cryin out loud, the guy apologized!

  • AdLib : glenn – But it sure seems that the cuts, which don’t fully kick in for some time, are just temporary anyway. The Repubs needed them to go into effect to claim victory…but the defense corps are no doubt hammering them to make a deal. I don’t think they will stay as they are and that a “grand deal

  • glenn : AdLib–do you think he actually knows/understand s he’s digging the hole deeper?

  • kesmarn : The latest I’ve heard is that the approval rating for the Repubs is at 29%, while the Pres is at — I believe — 49%.

  • AdLib : Kes – It’s possible but he it could also be that he’s just aging badly, speaking slower, thinking slower, recognizing he’s digging a hole slower…

  • kesmarn : glenn, Ah’m a-thinkin’ them squiggly lines is straight from the devil. That there thing better be prayed over.

  • glenn : AdLib–the repubs/tpartiers will be claiming victory that they got spending cuts, while at the same time blaming President Obama for higher unemployment. Can’t wait to see how they spin it!

  • kesmarn : Was talking with glenn earlier, AdLib, and seriously, I wonder if Woodward has a medical condition. His speech seemed to have slowed and he seems to struggle to find the word he needs.

  • glenn : Kes–aren’t those squiggly lines that “modern art” that nobody understands?

  • AdLib : Well, we’re living in a post-sequester world. What do you think happens and when?

  • AdLib : “table-holder-u pper”…very funny!

  • AdLib : Kes :lol:

  • AdLib : Woodward’s been going in this direction for some time, dissing Obama and twisting things negatively against him. I guess it was only a matter of time he’d cross the Fox News line.

  • kesmarn : Whut’re all them funny squiggly lines on that there table holder upper Emmie-Belle?

  • AdLib : Kes – Yes, I saw that! Actually, that demographic only buy books to level out the legs of tables

  • AdLib : Hmm…sounds like it could be cheaper to use his books for building materials. Think how many inexpensive outhouses could be buit using those books.

  • kesmarn : One pundit quipped that Woodward’s books wouldn’t sell now because his current fans have already spent all their money on armor piercing bullets and heritage seed.

  • glenn : Kes–doubtful on the “toxic” aspect…anythin g romney says is toxic. I see he’s still blaming everyone else for his loss.

  • glenn : The complete title should read “No Apologies, just Whining”.

  • kesmarn : There would be a certain satisfaction in the toilet paper usage option, glenn. Hopefully it’s non-toxic to the skin…

  • AdLib : Sounds like the title of Woodward’s next book.

  • AdLib : It all is so ironic. $1 for Mitt Romney and his “No Apologies”!

  • glenn : Kes–not firewood, but toilet paper!

  • kesmarn : I posted it on TO/OT. For a man who worships $$ the way he does, that’s gotta sting a bit. And glenn — is that in the price range of firewood?

  • glenn : Kes–don’t you think that’s a little overpriced?

  • AdLib : Kes, going to check it out right now!

  • AdLib : glenn – Evening! Yep, you said it!

  • kesmarn : Happy Friday, friends. I’m a bit late because I took a few minutes to post a pic of Romney’s book “No Apologies” on the reduction table with a current price of $1 on it. Hahaha!

  • glenn : Good evening, all to whimpergate. Guess Woodward is going out not with a bang, but a whimper!

  • AdLib : Bob Woodward has a cameo in the Oz The Great and Powerful, as the Cowardly Lyin’ Straw Man.

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “Whimpergate” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then.

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